PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[outed wolf]

he def does a lot of the same writing stuff here like the strikeout posts, (i even saw a similar line to the one he said about me insulting his play in a wolf game too lol)

[Arete]

did you read those arete wolfgames?

i skimmed them. in one he posts 5.6k wall as a wolf as to why they should kill this other guy but kill him first. it seemed like some kind of hail mary

he certainly seems capable of pushing/voting his bros from what i can tell (that was the main thing i wanted to see)

hm

did you actually read the wallpost in question (I promise I have a reason for asking this)

[outed wolf]

i scrolled past it mostly lmao sorry

[bronana]

i mean syn has been pushing me for two days and i still cant even tell you the slightest reason why he thinks im a wolf

he just went off and voted me

i mean:
i dont think nutella is a wolf at all
i dont really think youre a wolf even though i should omgus to tilt you :P
i guess i dont think the marl/vulgard stuff is a gambit
i guess i dont think c4 treats dya the way he did as a wolf
i liked spf at the start of the game?
i am perhaps giving too much credit to dizzys vulgard post/crankiness

-----
syn has done basically zero solving?
arete has stopped solving now vulgard is dead?

ye kinda where i'm at

there are two people in the poe and they are giving very little to work with

[Arete]

i scrolled past it mostly lmao sorry

you don't have to apologize

if you'd actually read it I was going to say there was no way a wolf would ever bother to go read 5000 words of wolf!me casing another player when they have TMI that I'm a villager and they don't need to especially try to get me voted out at some point but I don't think you not reading it is wolfy

[bronana]

spf has been oddly low-impact since like, d2?

I know 10 dead villagers and 10 live villagers will pounce on me for saying that, but shrug

[outed wolf]

not wrong on that either

i wrote it off mostly because dya was still alive but i was hoping to get more from her this day phase

[staypositivefriend]

here's some stuff i wrote about the interactions from everyone in this game on dya's side - i had to rush it toward the end cause im running out of time, but these are the posts i found the most notable/interesting:

arete - dya makes their first direct reference to arete in this post: https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 65#p800165, and puts them in the “dunno what to do with” tier.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 16#p803416 - this is the first time that arete and dyachei directly interact. it’s a fairly standard interaction

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 06#p803706 - dyachei somewhat dodges a question from arete about their read on c4

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 65#p803965 - puts arete third to last on their readslist

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 11#p804211 - another softball interaction

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 26#p805126 - dyachei says that “arete has the want”, but i’m confused about what they’re saying about arete even with the context. i think they’re riffing off of sunbae’s post and saying that arete genuinely believes that vulgard is town?

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 47#p806647 - dyachei explains their switch off of vulgard to arete

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 34#p807034 - there’s an entire exchange around this post where dyachei starts lolcatting and arete seems genuinely baffled about whether or not dyachei is hardclaiming wolf - worth looking at

bronana -

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 16#p797916 - dyachei asks bronana a fairly standard interrogation question early on

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 60#p798660 - answers a prompt from bronana about their strongest reads

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 55#p800055 - hm

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 86#p801286 - tries to engage with bronana after the thread had been stagnant for a while

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 06#p801606 - quotes bronana’s defense of them and just says: “exactly”

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 38#p802638 - dyachei jokingly calls out zack for “upsetting the status quo”

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 65#p803965 - puts bronana in the middle of their reads list

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 92#p807092 - this post is weird, but maybe it’s more weird for arete than for bronana? i’m putting it here for posterity because it’s been stuck in my brain

c4 -

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 82#p796682 - dyachei softly defends me when c4 scumreads me early on

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 02#p797802 - outs an early meta townread on c4

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 24#p798024 - shades c4 for ignoring their posts a few posts later

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 86#p801486 - mildly intense exchange between the two of them around this post

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 95#p803295 - dya cases c4’s progression on me

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 56#p803356 - pings sunbae in an attempt to create discussion about their wolfread on c4

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 65#p803965 - dya’s read on c4 does a heelturn around this post - they put c4 near the bottom of their readslist and encourage the wagon against them

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 92#p810792 - votes c4 in this post

dyslexicon -

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 02#p798702 - brief exchange about dya’s read on dizzy here
that’s more or less it - not many interactions between the two that i found interesting or notable, they barely interacted throughout dya’s side of the ISO

marl -

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 19#p799519 - brief exchange here

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 20#p799920 - implies that marl’s perspective is towny in this post, takes it back a post later

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 65#p800165 - dya leaves marl out of their readslist in this post, lol

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 00#p802300 - defends themself against marl’s meta comparison

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 18#p804918 - piggybacks off of marl’s vote on c4 to express their support for a c4 wagon

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 99#p809299 - trs marl here

nutella -

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 65#p796765 - soft defend nutella here

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 92#p798692 - pivots to wolfreading nutella

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 46#p799746 - exchange in this post

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 70#p799770 - exchange continues around here

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 13#p802713 - slightly tense exchange in this post

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 05#p802505 - another tense exchange around here

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 08#p803708 - comes around to nutella being light v

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 61#p809261 - more of the same

outed wolf -

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 25#p799525 - answers outed wolf’s prompt for dya to explain where their head is at

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 30#p799530 - brief exchange here

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 91#p802291 - softball

not much else here i found notable, tbh

tangrowth/chloe/syn:

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 41#p797541 - calls tan pure in this post

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 60#p798660 - calls tan the towniest player in the game

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 59#p801259 - continues to strongly townread the tang slot

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 88#p802288 - doubles down on the townread here

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 96#p806296 - shifts to scumreading/shading the tan slot here, accuses them of pocketing marl

[bronana]

speak of the devil lol

[outed wolf]

was just waiting for you to mention her ofc

[staypositivefriend]

main things i noticed:

-kinda felt like dyachei was using bronana as a sounding board to reiterate their reads and look cleaner throughout the game - the way that they said "exactly" to zack's defense of them and occasionally chimed in to make leading comments toward zack feels more like a wolf trying to pocket a villager than it does w/w interaction

-dya's switch on c4 felt like it came primarily from a place of opportunism - i think that dya's early read on c4 being different from CoV was TMI

-leaning on dya's treatment of nutella being TMI as well

-i was ready to say that dya/syn weren't aligned, because dya constantly went out of their way to townread and hard defend the tan slot in the early stages of the game. their read on tan did a turnaround in a way that i'm struggling to wrap my head around

[staypositivefriend]

absolutely fantastic x-post

[staypositivefriend]

i mean, i don't disagree that i've been "low impact" - i have a lot going on IRL. but i've contributed what i can in the limited time that i have to really put my head into a mafia game, and i've pushed on a wolf for two-three days straight, so shrug

[bronana]

i mean, i don't disagree that i've been "low impact" - i have a lot going on IRL. but i've contributed what i can in the limited time that i have to really put my head into a mafia game, and i've pushed on a wolf for two-three days straight, so shrug

shrug, i'm sure it's reasonable fypov as a villa

i'm just a bit paranoid of the possibility of the bussing wolf who then doesnt know what to post after their teammates are dead

this is the part of the game where i can flap my gums endlessly with all kinds of exploring edge cases and possiblities etc as a villager, and as a wolf where my reads stagnate and i'm more like can you clowns hurry up and mislunch already

[bronana]

so what do you think arete?

do you think syn is the wolf? if not syn where next?

yes I think Syn's the wolf

I feel like I've been pretty clear on that point??

I'm in the process of writing up a longer point explaining my locks + PoE, right now I have Marl/Dizzy/c4/Nut as locks and SPF/Syn as PoE, I'm trying to figure out which of you and Bronana I should stake the game on being town (I think you're both villagers but I have room in my PoE for one more person, so)

i am confused, you list spf in your immediate POE but you don't talk about it at all in your iso afaict. that's a pretty spicy read so ? where's your head at

[staypositivefriend]

i mean, i don't disagree that i've been "low impact" - i have a lot going on IRL. but i've contributed what i can in the limited time that i have to really put my head into a mafia game, and i've pushed on a wolf for two-three days straight, so shrug

shrug, i'm sure it's reasonable fypov as a villa

i'm just a bit paranoid of the possibility of the bussing wolf who then doesnt know what to post after their teammates are dead

this is the part of the game where i can flap my gums endlessly with all kinds of exploring edge cases and possiblities etc as a villager, and as a wolf where my reads stagnate and i'm more like can you clowns hurry up and mislunch already

ftr, you can be assured that my lack of activity is completely, 100% non-alignment indicative. i don't struggle to fake content as a wolf

[staypositivefriend]

i encourage someone who has the time to make a post similar to the one that i made that explores the interactions between dyachei/the players here, but from the players side and not dyachei's side

dunno if anyone will though

[outed wolf]

i have done it but i didnt take any notes lmao

[Syn]

hope i get a good grade in mafia

[outed wolf]

why am i a wolf syn

[Arete]

so what do you think arete?

do you think syn is the wolf? if not syn where next?

yes I think Syn's the wolf

I feel like I've been pretty clear on that point??

I'm in the process of writing up a longer point explaining my locks + PoE, right now I have Marl/Dizzy/c4/Nut as locks and SPF/Syn as PoE, I'm trying to figure out which of you and Bronana I should stake the game on being town (I think you're both villagers but I have room in my PoE for one more person, so)

i am confused, you list spf in your immediate POE but you don't talk about it at all in your iso afaict. that's a pretty spicy read so ? where's your head at

I don't scumread SPF I just don't have strong reasons to townread them, which is what a PoE ... is

like with Marl I can be like 'yes wow this interaction with Vulgard is never W/W' whereas with SPF I'm like 'yeah idk her posts are villagery'

like I do think it's just Syn, if people are seriously considering killing not-Syn I can case them, but I have room in the PoE for two additional people that I think are probably villagers but not locktown

I am still writing up the longer post that I mentioned in the post you quoted

wowee

[staypositivefriend]

i dont get how you think my push on dyachei could ever be a bus, in general

[Arete]

i dont get how you think my push on dyachei could ever be a bus, in general

someone in champs spec chat mentioned like a month ago that you really like bussing

I guess I don't actually know if that's true

[bronana]

i dont get how you think my push on dyachei could ever be a bus, in general

the last game i played was mountain climbing mafia, surely that was a wilder bus than any possible bus in this game lol.

btw, isn't this around the time you said you'd be able to lock in my alignment ... ?

[Syn]

why am i a wolf syn

by the way you are

[staypositivefriend]

i dont get how you think my push on dyachei could ever be a bus, in general

someone in champs spec chat mentioned like a month ago that you really like bussing

I guess I don't actually know if that's true

oh that's definitely true, i tend to hardbus a lot when i'm a wolf, but it's usually done w/the intent to maximize as much towncred as possible - whereas my push in dyachei this game was more like: "this person is kinda obviously a wolf to me and i'm just going to continue focusing on them until everyone else comes to their senses", there would be more flashiness and struggles to hold back my TMI in a world where i committed to hardbussing dyachei in that way

i think it's odd that you presumably have a very obvious reason to townread me (ie: "spf pushed on a wolf across multiple dayphases"), but you're deliberately preventing yourself from townreading me for that because of meta, instead of evaluating the push individually of your meta on me and determining if you think it's W/W

[bronana]

why am i a wolf syn

by the way you are

I can tell by the pixels

[staypositivefriend]

i dont get how you think my push on dyachei could ever be a bus, in general

the last game i played was mountain climbing mafia, surely that was a wilder bus than any possible bus in this game lol.

btw, isn't this around the time you said you'd be able to lock in my alignment ... ?

yeah i mean, crazy busses happen, but context is important lol, there were probably clues that hinted at schizo/alexa hardbussing each other even if they were very difficult to find

also yeah, i think that youre town

[bronana]

i dont get how you think my push on dyachei could ever be a bus, in general

the last game i played was mountain climbing mafia, surely that was a wilder bus than any possible bus in this game lol.

btw, isn't this around the time you said you'd be able to lock in my alignment ... ?

yeah i mean, crazy busses happen, but context is important lol, there were probably clues that hinted at schizo/alexa hardbussing each other even if they were very difficult to find

also yeah, i think that youre town

see you in f3 ofc

[Arete]

i dont get how you think my push on dyachei could ever be a bus, in general

someone in champs spec chat mentioned like a month ago that you really like bussing

I guess I don't actually know if that's true

oh that's definitely true, i tend to hardbus a lot when i'm a wolf, but it's usually done w/the intent to maximize as much towncred as possible - whereas my push in dyachei this game was more like: "this person is kinda obviously a wolf to me and i'm just going to continue focusing on them until everyone else comes to their senses", there would be more flashiness and struggles to hold back my TMI in a world where i committed to hardbussing dyachei in that way

i think it's odd that you presumably have a very obvious reason to townread me (ie: "spf pushed on a wolf across multiple dayphases"), but you're deliberately preventing yourself from townreading me for that because of meta, instead of evaluating the push individually of your meta on me and determining if you think it's W/W

if you want to not be in my PoE your task is not 'be villagery' it's 'be more likely a villager than everyone in my PoE and at least one person not in my PoE'

[c4e5g3d5]

dya ISO
Left out stuff about dead people and Marl

dya's don't tell me how to play the game reaction looks genuine (nut)
#586 and #589 look like real appeals (Visor/Zack)
#1566 probably TMI (Visor)
Whole sequence with nut starting around p#1900 looks like real appeals (nut)
#3445 sorta pockety (Visor/Zack)
#3746 open pocket

Underwhelming I know
Been procrastinating on this one because of how fucking boring dya’s ISO was
Kinda annoying how narrow the focus was

Basically, strong spew for Visor and Zack, decent spew for nut but that's irrelevant because her treatment of dya spews her five times over anyway
In the grand scheme of things it's just another post about why a bunch of people not named Syn are town

[outed wolf]

assume syn is a villager

where next?

[bronana]

ankheg fields

[outed wolf]

lol

[Arete]

anyways I don't actually think this game is particularly hard

Arete
bronana
c4e5g3d5
Dyslexicon
Marluxion
nutella
outed wolf
staypositivefriend
Tangrowth / Chloe / Syn


to lock the game we need five correct clears from that group

five people that I think are always clear

Marl

Spoiler: show

VULGARD AND I BOTH LIVED ITS ACTUALLY A CHRISTMAS MIRACLE

VULGARD AND I BOTH LIVED ITS ACTUALLY A CHRISTMAS MIRACLE

Marl are you seeing what I'm seeing?

VULGARD AND I BOTH LIVED ITS ACTUALLY A CHRISTMAS MIRACLE

Marl are you seeing what I'm seeing?

I'm not
What do your elf eyes see

Wait I think I see what you're getting at kindve

I don't think I'll need to explain.

I understand why people want to turboyeet dya but there's also other stuff I'd like to discuss.

I don't think I'll need to explain.

I understand why people want to turboyeet dya but there's also other stuff I'd like to discuss.

Should I tell them

I don't think I'll need to explain.

I understand why people want to turboyeet dya but there's also other stuff I'd like to discuss.

Should I tell them

I don't think you'll have to? Up to you though.

I'm the jailkeeper and I targeted c4 last night. @c4e5g3d5 I don't think you are ever the night kill target last night, especially not with Amy alive. Not with Chloe Nutella arete and Vulgard alive.

bearing in mind that if wolves were paying minimal attention to Amy's posts, they knew that Vul was redchecked, I don't think this is ~ever theater

like for me to believe that Marl is a wolf I basically have to imagine wolfchat going like

'hey so I'm redchecked, what do'
'I know, I'll fakeclaim jailkeeper and accuse a different villager of being a wolf, and pretend you were softing it to me in neighborhood chat'
'good idea! I will proceed to dip from the thread for eight hours, and then when I come back I'll say that you completely misunderstood what I was softing!'
'so ... what does this accomplish for us, again?'
'literally nothing'
'perfect'

there's also the derpclear which is ~always real, and more generally the fact that he hasn't really been playing to his wolf meta, and everything else about the neighborhood (no offense to Marl but I don't think he's a good enough wolf to invent an entire neighborhood full of nuanced Vulgard reads that, even filtered through him, are explained the way that Vulgard explains his reads)

Dizzy

Spoiler: show

@sunbae I found the things that made me tinfoil Dya/Vulgard.
May or may not be extremely dumb.

I'm kinda townreading Dya for their consistent frustration over being scumread, but at the same time I can only mildly townread them for it for so long. This and their Alison scumread they've been repping for a while are the only things I remember Dya doing, while most other players have voiced reads on every other player in the game, done significant analysis, etc.

Using the word "repping" is interesting, because it doesn't signal to me a mindframe that it's a read Dya is having, but rather projecting.

However, first of all, lol language. And I also gathered that Vulgard, from what I understand, is not a native English speaker like myself. And I myself may misread the significance of this particular word here. But it crossed my mind.

I think I've been fairly consistent in saying that you haven't been exclusively tunneling Alison, but that your read on Alison is definitely the highlight of your contributions so far. It's the first thing I associate with you in this game, outside of the constant defensive attitude. The defensive attitude part is something I could see being NAI based on how I saw you play as town sometimes, but yeah.

Speaking of reads outside of Alison, do the flips give you more reads outside of Alison? What do you think @ my townread of Alison?

Also this. I don't quite understand, because they say the defensive attitude could be NAI based on how they have seen Dya as town. Does this mean that Dya is not town here? Is it meant to say "based on how I saw you play as scum"? Am I reading this wrong or reading too much into this?

To be clear, I actually read Vulgard as more town. And I don't really have a read on Dya. But these are two things that crossed my mind, and they are very detailed, so it may just be me reading too much into things.

Dizzy's read here is kind of hedgy but also I don't think he ever makes it if the team is Vul/Dya/Dizzy. Like, in that world, Vul is the deepest wolf, the one all the other wolves are counting on to win the game if the rest of them die sooner. If that's the team, then not only is Dizzy shading the deepest wolf for no reason, and shading Dya unnecessarily, he's also specifically tying the wolf that's supposed to go deep to the wolf who's likely getting get voted out that day or the next, which would be really really dumb. Dizzy's just a villager here.

c4e5g3d5

this one is one of my more Controversial ones so I'm going to try my best to explain it well

first of all, there's this post from Vul:

c4, dya and KZA are in the "no impressions made" club and I would like them to play the game. I do not townread c4 for a carefully voiced scumread (?) on SPF. That's in any average wolf's wolfrange and I think SPF is too quick to clear them regardless of alignment.

dya and KZA just haven't talked about the game much yet. Dya got offended based on a single accusation if I read that correctly, and KZA 5-posted and dipped.

If this is W/W/W then ... what was Vul even doing.

I also think c4's posting has some good looks for him on its own merits

actually reading through his early posting some of it isn't nearly as good as I remember (e.g. I was thinking he had been tunnelling Dya all game but he was shielding them on D1), but I think his later push on Dya is overall a good look for him (particularly given that he basically ignored KZA all game -- if he wanted to hardbus his partners, why would he not hardbus the extremely low-hanging slanker on D1?

spoiler has quotes but I think I messed up the order

Spoiler: show

There is almost nothing of note to say about dya

They had a couple agreeable reads I guess? But this is definitely a "cya in two cycles" kinda slot to read for now.

sV A b dAA

dya v for thinking the scumreads on them are unfair

dya v for thinking the scumreads on them are unfair

Why do you think this? Your takes have been fine so far, but this one stands out as unjustified to me.

Because correct scumreads aren't unfair duh. Apparently everything is NAI meta though.

Anyone acting like anyone's treatment of Seth is unaligning in any way is silly. He's fucked, plain and simple, and his partners can treat him however the hell they want to because it's all inconsequential. Does anyone really think anyone else thinks there's pelt cred there?

The converse, though?

maybe stop trying to tell me how to play a light fucking game

Someone tell me if dya has any kind of history taking criticism to their wolf game personally

^
Dya

I don't care about dya today at all unless someone has a real silver bullet of a case on them.

Guys I think Alison and Seth might not be w/w

In all seriousness, Alison reacted viscerally to me calling her/Seth w/w, and barely reacted to the myriad of others calling her/Seth w/v. If Alison's a wolf, the w/v accusations are the actually threatening ones. With how raw and immediate the reaction was, Alison's probably just town that thought I was setting her up for Seth flipping red.

And with that in mind, reread the environment around the Alison/Seth situation. That was a planned 1-2 punch every time. The wolves wanted Alison next. Everyone who was pushing the dichotomy gets the stink eye, and that's pretty much exactly just Amy and dya.

Amy straight up says Alison's next if Seth flips green, which is hilarious in hindsight. She clings to the """"implications"""" of Alison pulling up the other ISO more than anyone else in a way that looks deliberately obtuse. To her credit, her treatment of Alison looks dynamic in a believable way. It's just that the actual things she says are scummy.

dya unaligns Alison and Seth almost immediately, ends with Alison at the bottom of their list, ends with their vote on Alison, and does nothing anywhere to get momentum off of Seth and onto Alison, or to find the townie in the two. Granted an Alison CFD was probably unlikely there, but they almost seem to backseat encourage the Seth wagon at the same time, which makes even less sense. Textbook opportunistic dichotomy.

Won't miss either, but [VOTE: dyachei] aubergine has fewer redeeming qualities.

I don't have a nutella read, and from what I know about nutella, I probably don't need one. If this whole thread says she's always town, she's probably always town.

@Alison I read your Visor read ten times forward and backward and don't get your confidence.
@Vulgard I read your Tang read ten times forward and backward and don't get your confidence.
I sorta get the Dizzy townread but don't see why it can't just be a wolf doing random shit for fun.

Alison nut spf sunbae Vulgard
Arete Chloe Marl
Dizzy Hally Visor Zack
Amy dya

Tiers unordered. And of course Hally and Zack go straight up to the top if KZA flips red.

Lol I got 50 extra posts and I probably won't even hit the normal cap

(he was also on Dya D2 which is a minor point in his favor but if he were scum he didn't really have other options)

there's also this post:

So much for me TMIing Alison

right before the Alison flip, when she didn't come back and claim PR

I think this displays a genuine PoV of expecting Alison to flip scum, I wouldn't expect a wolf of the skill level I perceive c4 as having to fake something like that

Nutella

this one is mostly associative

Spoiler: show

admit it nutella, you're in a tunnel

you keep finding reasons to call me a wolf and prove that I'm a wolf when I'm not

Wait vulgard, how did you only quote the posts where I didn't explain and none of the posts where I did?

I think both alison and gav are independently wolfy. I think if alison is a wolf, gav is probably villa because of the whiteknighting that she's kind of sort of doing

I'm not really sure why that's hard to understand?

and nutella why would my "wolf agenda" ever be pushing alison when I know she's a hard elim to make happen?

maybe because you think it looks good, even if you can't stop gav from going over you have tried to push an original suspect

I see you've moved your vote to gav since, but the length of time your vote was parked on alison while you danced around a gav suspicion was concerning to me

it's really getting old that people think they should dictate how I play the game. I play on my own terms with my own style. I guess if you don't like it, that's tough for you

????

who is doing that

you did to a degree when you bitched about me wasting posts and how anxiety inducing that was.

I moved to gavial because the more he posts the more i think he's a wolf. I think there's a world where alison is a wolf and gav is villa though

alison's posts have really skeeved me out and I'm sorry that's apparently a problem for you

it's tilting me you're just dismissive of my feelings on Alison

I'm literally not

Ive said multiple times that if you're town you may well be right

But I don't think you're town at the moment, and if you are I'd like you to consider all angles



you generally read me pretty well and you're just flinging shit at me here

you've been on my case for stupid little things since d1. sorry YOU think I'm flinging shit at you. Maybe consider your own actions here

you keep getting frustrated at my process though. It's not dismissive to point out that alison is better than that. It's just fucking TRUE. Alison is usually highly involved in games and gives good reasons for her reads. she's not doing that here. so I guess suck eggs

you're still ENTIRELY missing my point and vulgard's

reread his post

he explains why alison's progression makes sense from an uninformed perspective, and why if she was a wolf her strategy would be different

and like.... this response is just continuing to be dismissive tbh. I've stated MULTIPLE times that I've seen Alison take a more laid back approach as town many times, and you're not actually delving into why you think her approach is indicative of her having wolf pov or not besides just saying "she had tmi" over and over

i'm really set off by this response because you're just not listening to anything i've said about alison at all


thanks for the takes on amy and zack

I'm listening I just don't agree nutella. you telling me things doesn't mean I'm going to agree with them just because you have your perspective. Hell I'm not even leaning you villa yet, why would I trust what you're saying over my own thoughts on it.

so be tilted, Idfc

nut, it's because i read you town rn. your bad tunnel on me just makes me believe it more

it's time for wagon purity reads with nutella

[VOTE: dya] aubergine

if only you had conviction for literally anything else

@nutella I think he pocketed arete and marl, so they shouldn't be wolves. my solve is looking good so far

cool nobody thinks those two people are wolves, they are not in the poe.

how about you look at the poe

you know what? this attitude of yours can fuck off. you asked me to show you why my solve is correct. well, poes are made by ruling people out...which I'm doing by looking at vulgard's posts.

if that's not good enough for you, go suck eggs

everyone has made up their mind already. sure feels like it's a guaranteed sure thing

if youre town in this situation you should have a solve

if you read my posts instead of being condescending to me about the rand, you'd know I think it's syn/c4

i know those are your SUSPECTS but you arent trying to convince us it's the SOLVE

I ALREADY DID THE WORK TO SHOW THEY'RE THE SOLVES NUTELLA

the short explanation is 'literally just read the quotes'

the slightly longer explanation is 'throughout Dya's Iso, they either display seemingly-genuine annoyance towards Nutella, or appeal to her in a blatantly W/V way. furthermore, throughout these quotes, Nutella is seemingly trying to solve Dya's alignment, so it's not just your standard "be aggressive to each other and hope people call it not-W/W"'

Outed Wolf

I went back and forth for a while on whether he or Bronana was the Villagerier Villager Who Gets To Be In The Towncore but ultimately I'm more confident in this one.

The first main reason is the treatment of Vulgard:

Spoiler: show

is his godread on you as good as his godread on gavial?

his godread on me is real and supported by an extensive history of games as both V/V and V/W

much like his extensive history of games with seth eh?

I'm sort of mrrr about how Outed Wolf is trying to discredit townreads on me/reasons to townread me without actually pushing for me to get killed (or even really expressing more than a slight scumread on me)

it kind of feels like he's trying to make sure that I'm a viable push for the future but doesn't want to get his hands dirty pushing me now

LOL

hilarious post - i said i thought you were a villager yesterday, the post is making light of vulgard not you

alright, what was your motivation behind discrediting Vul's reads?

... because he was wrong? he spent like 80 posts yesterday saying how much of a gavial god reader he was and that we couldnt let gavial slip away and we had to kill gavial

with his EXTENSIVE history of catching gavial and hes NEVER BEEN WRONG BEFORE

and he was wrong.

W R O N G
R
O
N
G

INCORRECT

NOT RIGHT

so i gave him a bit of shit for it

Just take the opposite of whatever vulgard thinks

Ez game

also agree with zack

vulgard/arete stfu about each other

his vague aspersions on our ability to read each other are probably not out of the range of distancing but I still don't really think he would go out of his way to make fun of Vul's skill as Mafia (with TMI that Vul, in fact, was 'powerwolfing' rather than 'just bad')

I know Zack disagrees here but it's super unnecessary (+ the posts in question feel like they're written from a PoV of genuinely believing that Vulgard is a villager)

there's also this string of posts from Dya:

Spoiler: show

it's super frustrating to finally rand town in a game with visor and zack and have them not even explain their shitty reads on me

this is the post, I could have read into the wording wrong but it sounds kinda like implying they are town

I finally randed town in a game with them in it

it's not implying they're town

but the part about their reads on you kinda is

no it isn't. they have shitty reads on me they havent explained. I don't know if they're real or fake reads. I just know they're shitty

which honestly probably just spews both Visor and Zack town

the thing that's making me push Visor over Zack into lock territory is how he handled his EoD4, where he was basically like 'yolo, Dya and Syn are both V, let's kill SPF'

and obviously there's some WifoM here, but--

if he's a wolf on D4, he knows that he's the deepwolf who has to win endgame, that no matter what he does Dya is going to be dying in the next couple days and most likely that day

and I think he would be setting himself up to ... win ... by getting enough towncred to ride through the last couple days (something which he, relevantly, was already well positioned for -- he wasn't in anyone's PoE but Syn's -- if he were in the PoE this logic wouldn't really apply) (he had also already been pushing Dya!!)

there's no reason to go burn towncred for no reason when you're positioned to be able to win solo

he's just a villager

also probably villagers, but my PoE has room for three

I'm not going to go through and quote this as extensively as I'm quoting everyone else, but I do also think these people are probably town.

Bronana

I think his attempt to shade Vul starting D2 is a good look

I think the same Dyapost I quoted in the last section, talking about Visor, applies to him equally much

I thought his treatment of Dya was reasonably decent (semi active in pushing them but not in a way that felt like he was just a wolf with TMI -- there were some moments of villagery self-doubt), and there were a few posts that he wouldn't really need to make as wolf e.g. shutting down the people calling Amy/Dya aligned (which would be minus EV to do as scum)

I don't care about his treatment of KZA. I think wolves on D1 basically always knew KZA was going down.


SPF

I think her posts have felt ~reasonably villagery and thoughtful~

also she pushed Dyachei, which is cool, I guess.

fwiw I specifically re-read the parts of her Iso that are about Dyachei, since she seemed to think I should be townreading her for them, and I didn't find anything that made me think that it definitely wasn't a bus. there were also a couple parts that weren't great, such as when she tried to tie Dyachei and Alison together as a potential W/W pair.

not super confident in her being a villager but I think it's more likely than not

Syn

Syn

I think this is just the last wolf

I'm going to write up a second post with all of my reasons for thinking it's just them but the reasons I have for townreading them are all weak -- Chloe had a couple mildly villagery posts + a couple posts that look disassociated with Vul, and there's a part of my brain that's like 'would this slot really defend every wolf, and be harddefended by Vul and Dya, if they were actually a wolf???' but I don't think there's anything really overriding all of the reasons I think it's just them





----

anyways

for how long this post took me to write it feels kind of ~underwhelming~ but I hope it's helpful

[bronana]

seems cromulent

minor quibble that if you check the timing, I think I was the first person to bring up kza in a negative way and the first person to vote him (where I stayed until eod iirc), so I think "it doesn't matter because kza was always going down" is a little uncharitable

[Arete]

seems cromulent

minor quibble that if you check the timing, I think I was the first person to bring up kza in a negative way and the first person to vote him (where I stayed until eod iirc), so I think "it doesn't matter because kza was always going down" is a little uncharitable

ehh

probably a better look than not being the first person but doesn't especially move the needle for me -- like, I feel like even before anyone particularly started pushing them 'the person who wrote 11 posts none of which are good' was probably going down early

[bronana]

shrug, search 'kza' in the thread and look at the highlights in order if your want

people are almost all either neutral or positive on him while i initially shaded then voted him, and I later followed up by being harder on him and clearly stating he should die

neither vulgard nor dya was hard on him at all afaict

[outed wolf]

Thanks for the post

[bronana]

lol vulgard literally makes his big post shading me shortly after I vote kza

[nutella]

yeah i'm still arriving at everyone is simply a villager except syn

[outed wolf]

I remember sunbae pushing him to die (Kza)

But Jim's dead so not sure that matters

[bronana]

gavial, kza, and to a lesser extent c4's posts made very little impact on me. I find the amount of townreads on c4 odd for what he has posted.

spf brought ^this post up sometime d2 and iirc said it was me "being neutral" or whatever which I found odd, I thought it was clear I was shading all three people here.

what do your reads generally look like rn, zack?

bronana
bronana


prob town, wouldn't touch today
nutella
vulgard


slight town i guess
amy
outed wolf
spf - considered putting you in the tier beneath this one tho
sunbae


i'm not super thrilled with them, but grouping them in the tier below felt intensely wrong
dyslexicon
tangrowth


nullish / meh
alison
c4
hally
marl


nullish / meh with feeling
arete
kza


wolfy
dya
gavial

[VOTE: KZA] aubergine

do stuff

Reading bronana's ISO.

His early posts look like he's trying to be townread. He's relaxed, charismatic, offers takes that look like he's smiling behind the screen. I can't tell how much he believes in any of them. Timing would indicate "not a lot" (RVS stage) but the fact he's still making them...

I don't know.

This ISO just makes me paranoid. There's nothing outright WRONG or super wolfy I see in it, but Zack gives me the impression of competence. I don't take issue with anything in particular he's said, but I can't bring myself to trust him and call him town. Especially since he shows signs of huge self-awareness.

goofy thought alert

sunbae immediately reading spf's self-meta wall from offsite but not reading tangy's whole reads wall is because sunbae/tangy are wolves and spf is town

this read is stupid and i debated whether or not to post it, then decided i'd go for it on the off chance someone calls me villagy for it

wolves are in gavial/dya/hally/arete/alison/kza??? with a side helping of "i haven't done due diligence on visor yet"

marl could also be a wolf but i lean v for now

nobody else activates my fight or flight when i call them town so

possibly

seems a bit too straightforward "yes the wolves are the underwhelming people not posting much" though, I'd wager the actual team is more complex than that

fine as a place to start for day 1/2 though

i mean yes you're right that the names i listed are underwhelming and the names i didn't list aren't, and that does have shades of "too easy"

but i'd rather start in the easy world and run off on a snipe hunt later than do it the other way around, yknow?

gun to head if i were to pick people outside that pool who i haven't quite done diligence on and thus could be fooling me it's probably like. c4 mp7 you

a fine three names for you to bring up, i am somewhat surprised i've gotten such little heat

There's not a TON of that but it does give me pause.

Does anyone have a wolfgame of his I could read and verify? I want to figure out if his approach is different or mostly the same.

I'm explaining this really badly.

He just comes across as the type of player who's a very competent wolf. The type of player I never trust even if they do rand V.

The worst thing in his ISO is the early string of posts where he tries hard to build a towncore and put himself in it. I can't multi-quote and ISO at the same time, so I'll just point at it: exactly the first 10 posts. Ending with the vote on nutella. It looks like a wolf gunning for a strong entrance and good thread position. I know "four pillars of the village" is a meme but it matches his proclaimed townreads from RVS/early game. The progression feels a tad mechanical. "Throw out a few townreads and then push people with those townreads, I'm in a good spot, let's get it."

I don't take much issue with his later posts other than being a bit paranoid while reading them. Him sitting back and watching things unfold for the 2nd half of his ISO should be NAI. He does ask a lot more questions at this point but he's already given reads on most players so I don't find that part wolfy.

I'm not planning to touch him today, but he seems like a likely candidate for a deepwolf given his d1 play so far. If we need to search for one later and I'm not alive for it, keep it in mind. His treatment of Gavial is also within the range of a bus, though he's currently vanity voting KZA.

it's super frustrating to finally rand town in a game with visor and zack and have them not even explain their shitty reads on me

this is the post, I could have read into the wording wrong but it sounds kinda like implying they are town

I finally randed town in a game with them in it

it's not implying they're town

but the part about their reads on you kinda is

I don't know why you're so hung up about this, and I'm still not sure how I feel about dya myself. The perspective in that post is perfectly normal from either alignment.

okay I'll drop it

what's your read on dya atm

I'd kill gavial or kza. I acknowledge they are the most low hanging fruits, but I find their contributions extremely lacking regardless and don't feel remotely confident about killing off anyone else.

I have meta on like 5 people in this list and one of them is Gavial so it won't even help me

SPF saying "this is a wolf" at this stage feels pretty good and similar to how she did it in Fargo as town

Personally I have 0 confidence in reading Gavial tho

hot(?) take is that Gavial received way too much heat from too many directions for his 4 post entrance and is probably just town

[VOTE: kza] aubergine

As far as I can tell, until spf's vote there I was the only person in the game to vote kza (and I stayed there during all these quoted posts). So to say it means nothing because kza was always going to die is pretty unfair. I didn't even include my posts after this doubling down on my kza suspicion when it had become clear he was likely going down - an inevitably that I suppose we're measuring by the strength of a wagon that I literally started way before everyone else?

[bronana]

yeah maybe this is trivial or petty or whatever

but i'm sick of people keep saying that my suspicion of kza didn't matter because it fucking DID matter. I never said a single positive thing about him, I was the first to vote him, I said kill him, I shaded him, Vulgard made a wallpost shading me while I was the only person voting KZA, I doubled down on my suspicion when dizzy attacked me over it, and KZA was a wolf and I was right. I'm sick of everyone other than c4 and visor refusing to give even the slightest credit for it, damn I never asked to be cleared for it but you're not the first to handwave it as meaningless when it wasn't.

[outed wolf]

If anything this makes me more confident you're v

[outed wolf]

Wait spf second on the wolf wagon?

That's her wolf tell ldo

[outed wolf]

I like the vulgard stuff, really points out what he was trying to do

And he kept putting me you and sunbae together lol

Your play makes no sense with his play if you're both wolves

[outed wolf]

That wolf list has two wolves down in the bottom 4

I just don't think Zacks gonna bus his bros like that, he's never struck me as a real busser

I have looked through past Nutella and syn games on here

I got zilch from the syn games, Nutella I guess I still feel okay about but there are a few things there I am a worried I am overlooking

[outed wolf]

Assume syn arete flip v

You got two hits Zack where do you go then?

[bronana]

not sure, I'd have to put on my big boy pants and really dig in

dya/nutella interactions seem too acrimonious for w/w, both seemed genuinely rustled by the other