PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[Dyslexicon]

I agree with Zack

Don't push it >:(

[Amy]

If I ignore arete and vulgard godreading each other town, I'm not sure how villagy I actually think they are

maybe they're w/w and playing it up for theater, but I feel like this saying that:

my biggest issue with zack is that it felt like after people started theorizing a me/him/dya wolfteam he kinda... shifted his positioning in the threadstate, such that it more closely aligned with mine and dya's? i can try to elaborate on what i mean by this but i'd have to pull quotes and i'm still kinda multitasking

and like, normally that would be a good thing! cause at the very least i can be secure in my own alignment, so zack agreeing with me should be a good thing

but it just felt... too convenient. and like, if i were a wolf in zack's position, that's probably exactly what i'd do - try to tie myself to a villager(/villagers, if dya is green) and bank on people cooling on the team read when that flip comes back

i have some other concerns about zack but i want to reread to see if they're worth anything

@Dyslexicon you asked me earlier what i meant by not being worried about zack after kza's flip - it was mostly a pretty level 1 "i remember zack wanting to kill kza yesterday, so that's probably a good look for him" sort of thing. i know some people have since cased his kza progression; i haven't had the chance to go back and look at it myself

if you are a villager, and i was a wolf, in this gamestate ... I would just be trying to kill you.

why would i even be trying to tie myself to you when you are ahead of me in the POE idgi, I'm under suspicion but I've never felt like me dying today was a serious threat.

it'd probably require [dya and/or alison i don't remember what the wagons looked like at the time damn this not being MU] to also be town; in a gamestate where the lead suspects are v/v i'm a pretty strong proponent of wolves existing on both sides of whatever dividing line there winds up being, cause no matter which wagon wins a villager gets chopped and the other wagon is still at risk of dying somewhere down the line. i don't think you'd want all 3 wolves pushing the same person in that case - or at least, were i a wolf in that gamestate, i'd be setting myself up to be on the wagon opposed to the rest of my team

so if i indulge my ego for .2 seconds, a w!zack world probably means my view of the gamestate (or at least, my desire not to chop dya) isn't as bad as everyone else seems to think it is, and probably means you're trying to position yourself as the Voice Of Reason T M for when i do go over and flip green

i don't know how much sense it actually makes? pretend i borrowed your pepesilvia.jpg

but it's definitely a thought that i had

and it's definitely at least partially spurred by "damn zack sure wolfreads me in almost every game huh"

[sunbae]

i'm also looking to clear up people's issues re: my slot, so @ me with concerns (that aren't tonal, obviously) and hopefully i can explain my mindset to a satisfactory degree

1. You seemed flabbergasted that I had nutella as a wolf and asked me why and have followed up actual zero percent on it

2. We haven't really tried to work through any alignments like we did with Alette last game and that was legit my favorite part of playing mafia in the last few years at least possibly longer

3. You keep throwing out that you think I might be problematic but haven't really tried to engage me on anything this game despite my perspective being really, really, really different to everyone elses. I have weird villa reads on Outed Wolf and Arete for instance. Maybe even a weird on on c4 and Marl?

How come you dont want me

[staypositivefriend]

i only got a couple of hours of sleep last night and my brain is absolute jelly. does anyone have any specific questions or reads that they wanna hear from me? might be a good way to get back into the flow of things

[sunbae]

I watched that clip earlier today and its been in my head so excuse me for shoehorning it in here when its not really relevant to the rest of the post lol

[Dyslexicon]

Yeah, is thread cohesion bad?
What can we do to make it not bad?

What is the town core, is there one?
Do we need to call in Jimmay himself to line up the one true path to success?

I have much unsureness, but I'm very interested in getting to a place where I feel good about a town core. =p
Marl, Chloe, Nut, Visor .....some others?

[outed wolf]

"Feels like most of the game is big back and forth interactions between two people, thread settles, two new people take over, repeat. Very little cohesion or working together. It's almost like it's a bunch of individuals trying to solve on their own and very little groupwork"

i hear that

[sunbae]

@sunbae I found the things that made me tinfoil Dya/Vulgard.
May or may not be extremely dumb.

I'm kinda townreading Dya for their consistent frustration over being scumread, but at the same time I can only mildly townread them for it for so long. This and their Alison scumread they've been repping for a while are the only things I remember Dya doing, while most other players have voiced reads on every other player in the game, done significant analysis, etc.

Using the word "repping" is interesting, because it doesn't signal to me a mindframe that it's a read Dya is having, but rather projecting.

However, first of all, lol language. And I also gathered that Vulgard, from what I understand, is not a native English speaker like myself. And I myself may misread the significance of this particular word here. But it crossed my mind.

I think I've been fairly consistent in saying that you haven't been exclusively tunneling Alison, but that your read on Alison is definitely the highlight of your contributions so far. It's the first thing I associate with you in this game, outside of the constant defensive attitude. The defensive attitude part is something I could see being NAI based on how I saw you play as town sometimes, but yeah.

Speaking of reads outside of Alison, do the flips give you more reads outside of Alison? What do you think @ my townread of Alison?

Also this. I don't quite understand, because they say the defensive attitude could be NAI based on how they have seen Dya as town. Does this mean that Dya is not town here? Is it meant to say "based on how I saw you play as scum"? Am I reading this wrong or reading too much into this?

To be clear, I actually read Vulgard as more town. And I don't really have a read on Dya. But these are two things that crossed my mind, and they are very detailed, so it may just be me reading too much into things.

that "repping word choice" read makes me happy

like, really happy

thank you. will keep in the back of my mind for them but my gut reaction takeaway is "thats a read vNewcomb makes and I sponge to great success"

[Arete]

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine

I feel like I should be voting someone and more of my villagereads are here

[outed wolf]

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine

I feel like I should be voting someone and more of my villagereads are here

[Amy]

i'm also looking to clear up people's issues re: my slot, so @ me with concerns (that aren't tonal, obviously) and hopefully i can explain my mindset to a satisfactory degree

1. You seemed flabbergasted that I had nutella as a wolf and asked me why and have followed up actual zero percent on it

2. We haven't really tried to work through any alignments like we did with Alette last game and that was legit my favorite part of playing mafia in the last few years at least possibly longer

3. You keep throwing out that you think I might be problematic but haven't really tried to engage me on anything this game despite my perspective being really, really, really different to everyone elses. I have weird villa reads on Outed Wolf and Arete for instance. Maybe even a weird on on c4 and Marl?

How come you dont want me

1. i definitely missed your reply OOPS i will take a look

2. i would like to do that at some point tonight, actually. was planning on trying to engage you on a read once i finally get the rest of my work squared away

3. well, first of all, i don't think your townread on outed wolf is weird - i also think he's just town. c4 i'm townreading for the moment and marl i'm giving a pass off the derpclear

if any of those is particularly unusual to me, it's Arete - possibly just because i haven't put in the work to figure out Arete's alignment quite yet. i know vulgard is townreading them super hard, i don't remember what the other FoLers think, but after d1 i'm kinda reluctant to trust Godreads T M and would rather do my own due diligence

so i guess maybe we can deal with 2 and 3 in one go, actually. talk me through the Arete townread. i feel like, on a surface level if nothing else, nothing they've done has been super difficult for a wolf to replicate. there have been micro moments i've liked ("town jokes are funnier than wolf jokes" is still a weird read, i don't care what anyone else thinks), but i can't get there on the whole

[c4e5g3d5]

Anyway,

Alison reacted viscerally to me calling her/Seth w/w, and barely reacted to the myriad of others calling her/Seth w/v. If Alison's a wolf, the w/v accusations are the actually threatening ones. With how raw and immediate the reaction was, Alison's probably just town that thought I was setting her up for Seth flipping red.

@Amy @bronana @dyachei @Dyslexicon @staypositivefriend

Reads of this length are my favorite
They're long enough to thoroughly get the point across, but they're short enough that you can just... chuck them at people ya know?

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine

I feel like I should be voting someone and more of my villagereads are here

Probably more of my village reads are there as well lol.

Though I don't see that as a reason to move, cause wolf votes wolf all the time tbh tbh. Perrrsonally.

[Arete]

the wording things Dizzy just pointed out are NAI at worst

like I am not Vulgard and he can correct me if I'm wrong but the thing about Dya repping a scumread is just ... him not endorsing the position that Dya believes it, rather than him endorsing the position that Dya doesn't believe it

and the defensive attitude post is like 'Dya has a defensive attitude [which would normally be wolfy] but they've done it before as town, so it could be NAI,' it has an implicitly encoded assumption that a defensive attitude is wolfy rather than an implicit assumption that Dya is a wolf

[Dyslexicon]

Anyway,

Alison reacted viscerally to me calling her/Seth w/w, and barely reacted to the myriad of others calling her/Seth w/v. If Alison's a wolf, the w/v accusations are the actually threatening ones. With how raw and immediate the reaction was, Alison's probably just town that thought I was setting her up for Seth flipping red.

@Amy @bronana @dyachei @Dyslexicon @staypositivefriend

Reads of this length are my favorite
They're long enough to thoroughly get the point across, but they're short enough that you can just... chuck them at people ya know?

Devil's advocate:
Her having a different reaction may be the relevant thing here though.
If both w/w and w/v are wrong, why not react viscerally to both?

[sunbae]

Amy, spoiler is nutella read but put some shades on first cause the format is bayyyyyud
second one is arete thing

Spoiler: show

I kinda wanna just yeet alison, marl, and nutella into the great sky daddy yee haw

woah wait did i miss the part where you're scumreading nutella

talk to me about that one because i pretty strongly disagree

nutellas posts regarding gav and kza read to me as someone that knows both are flipping by start of d2 and is just getting the easy kza "cred"

Off Topic

Hally: the play makes no sense from kza's perspective if he's partnered with gav
it's possible he's tmi-ing him town or it's possible he's town with a ??? take but i dont see what kza has to gain from his posts on gav if they are partnered

Nutella: i think it's decently likely theyre just both wolves

it's not like kza really committed to a strong read on gav, just sort of waved his hand a bit

it's possible he has tmi and gav is actually town but meh

Off Topic

Nutella: vulgards confidence on gav flipping wolf solidifies mine as well, though I was already pretty confident based on how he's behaving

probably keeping symbolic vote on dya for the heck of it

Kza us probably just a wolf too atp

Off Topic

c4: do i need to bother making a read on kza

nutella: na, assuming gav chop vig get kza

Off Topic

amy: i think we stick with gav here?

Nutella: yeah it's prob better to just stick with him

idk

my vote is on kza and i think he has an equal if not higher chance of flipping wolf and i'd be happy with either going over

fight me on that if you want, i get the appeal of just flipping gav regardless

That is someone that knows Gav is flipping villa and kza is dead too and wants the kza cred early

Arete, can you let me know as briefly as possible why at eod you were approaching the game from a "I don't want people to turn on Vulgard so here's a long explanation of a villa read" perspective when if Gav flipped wolf nobody would ever be questioning Vul yet would start to ponder that alignment if Gav flipped villa? This is not a gotcha or a post to shade you, this is flat out just a question hoping I can get a better handle of your pov as eod went down.

I mostly wasn't thinking about Gavial's flip at all (although I did think they were more likely to flip town than scum), I was more thinking, like, if I randomly died N1 or N2 or something, and he were still alive on D4, he's the general-sort-of-player the thread might turn on, particularly if his reads turned out to be wrong (townread for relatively nebulous reasons, not close friends with anyone outside the FoL crowd afaik, nobody except me had particularly strong meta on him) and I wanted to make sure that didn't happen

if Gavial had actually been a wolf I don't think people would have been likely to immediately turn on him but I don't think that really would have reduced the likelihood of people turning on him on day 4, no one was going to give anyone cred for a Gavial hit, although I wasn't specifically thinking about that possibility at EoD

also I didn't care about the wagons, like, at all and I didn't really have strong reads other than Vul but I wanted to do something so that I didn't feel totally useless

am i sucker for just saying "coming up with the idea that it was a 5d chess with multiverse time travel move to prevent vul from getting fear killed 8 real life days from now is just like a town with a strange worry in the back of their head that they needed to throw out there and never a wolf who came up with this explanation"? cause I want to say "coming up with the idea that it was a 5d chess with multiverse time travel move to prevent vul from getting fear killed 8 real life days from now is just like a town with a strange worry in the back of their head that they needed to throw out there and never a wolf who came up with this explanation".

[Dyslexicon]

the wording things Dizzy just pointed out are NAI at worst

like I am not Vulgard and he can correct me if I'm wrong but the thing about Dya repping a scumread is just ... him not endorsing the position that Dya believes it, rather than him endorsing the position that Dya doesn't believe it

and the defensive attitude post is like 'Dya has a defensive attitude [which would normally be wolfy] but they've done it before as town, so it could be NAI,' it has an implicitly encoded assumption that a defensive attitude is wolfy rather than an implicit assumption that Dya is a wolf

Ah, yes. Thank you for explaining that last part, cause I didn't get that, but it does make sense.

I'm not very attached to this connection, which is why I didn't point out the things before Sunbae asked. It's more of a tinfoil to me.

[sunbae]

How did the day turn from Alison/Dya to Alison/Amy?

[Amy]

Anyway,

Alison reacted viscerally to me calling her/Seth w/w, and barely reacted to the myriad of others calling her/Seth w/v. If Alison's a wolf, the w/v accusations are the actually threatening ones. With how raw and immediate the reaction was, Alison's probably just town that thought I was setting her up for Seth flipping red.

@Amy @bronana @dyachei @Dyslexicon @staypositivefriend

Reads of this length are my favorite
They're long enough to thoroughly get the point across, but they're short enough that you can just... chuck them at people ya know?

you know, i've read this before and i've cited it multiple times and mentioned that i wanted to look into it

i'm looking into it now

i don't even think it's particularly true

[outed wolf]

well it was more alison/dya, then dya/amy and now its alison/amy

[bronana]

How did the day turn from Alison/Dya to Alison/Amy?

I don't know, but I'd kill dya last of those three

so would you afaik, i'm not sure whta you're getting at sport

(i enjoyed your will smith meme btw)

(also arete normally i haaaate telling people how to play but can you please talk about something other than vulgard)

[staypositivefriend]

can everyone on the "amy is a wolf" train give me like a 2-3 sentence summary of their concerns about her?

[outed wolf]

also agree with zack

vulgard/arete stfu about each other

[Amy]

syndicate multiquote is being obnoxious lemme figure out the best way to do this

[outed wolf]

can everyone on the "amy is a wolf" train give me like a 2-3 sentence summary of their concerns about her?

posts bad

tone bad

word choice bad

[bronana]

syndicate multiquote

decent band name

[sunbae]

How did the day turn from Alison/Dya to Alison/Amy?

I don't know, but I'd kill dya last of those three

so would you afaik, i'm not sure whta you're getting at sport

(i enjoyed your will smith meme btw)

(also arete normally i haaaate telling people how to play but can you please talk about something other than vulgard)

I'm not trying to get at anything. I'm asking how it shifted because I remember the crux being like ... dya going ham at alison for being a wolf and others going hard at dya for being a wolf and now dya has like 1 vote. I guess I just didn't realize I was going to need to focus so much on amy given ive spent the most of my brain power during the last half of the game day trying to sort out dya and stuff

[staypositivefriend]

can everyone on the "amy is a wolf" train give me like a 2-3 sentence summary of their concerns about her?

posts bad

tone bad

word choice bad

what's the wolfiest post from her in this game, in your onion?

[Arete]

How did the day turn from Alison/Dya to Alison/Amy?

I don't know, but I'd kill dya last of those three

so would you afaik, i'm not sure whta you're getting at sport

(i enjoyed your will smith meme btw)

(also arete normally i haaaate telling people how to play but can you please talk about something other than vulgard)

sure

I've been thinking about Marl and I'm pretty sure he has a ... sense of honor? ... that would prevent him from ever intentionally faking the derpclear he made earlier

it's not a trusttell, he's not intentionally cultivating it to get townread in future games, but it's fundamentally inconsistent with his personality to fake something like that

[Alison]

sunbae, you have a gun with 3 bullets. who are you shooting?

feel free to get as "if x, then y" with it as you like

anyone else is free to answer this as well

Alison!

If town - Bronana!
If scum - Amy?

I tried going further, but I can't.

Shouldnt you be shooting amy if im town?

I would prolly shoot amy, then dya, then dizzy

Dizzy my read on you is based on the fact that you're reading me badly + the Hally kill + your D1 EOD.

[Amy]

below this spoiler is the meat of alison's exchange with dya during the seth shit d1; dya was the main person accusing them of being w/v

Spoiler: show

i think it's w/v

Why can't it be V/V?

because neither of you are villagery. you least of all

Let's say I flip green right now and my arguments that Gavial has been essentially NAI this game are proven to be made in good faith. Are you going to treat him as outed wolf because we're "W/V"?

no, i'm going to treat him as a wolf because his iso in that other game is a lot villagerier than this game and it's not just about whether he posts or not?

why would you flipping green mean you were right on gavial? you've already shown me you can't compare likes

I mean it sounds like you've already made up your mind that we're both wolfy and you're confbiasing the hell out of it then.

you showed me a village game of gav's. that's not his behavior here. therefore he's wolfy rn

you have shown me you're not really paying attention to the game but you're making hard conclusions on it. I'm not sure you give a fuck about this game rn but the thoughts you're providing to the thread are really shallow for you. therefore, you're being wolfy

those things exist no matter what. is it now conf bias to have reads on people?

i'm going to bed

Just to clarify because there's been a lot of talk about how different Gavial was between that game and this. I am not saying that Gavial is exactly the same between that game and this. I actually townread Gavial confidently for being different from Fallout 2 (where he was a wolf) in that game and here I am NAI on him. I am using that link to demonstrate that he can engage in some of the behaviors you're scumreading him for even when he is town. For instance, Amy wrote that she felt that Gavial was just faffing about and doesn't really care about deeply engaging with other players. That's something I think he did in Double Elimination as well, he just pushed his own concerns, told people to fuck off when they were scumreading him and didn't really care to realtime with them or try to seriously evaluate them.

I don't think it's fair or accurate to accuse me of not paying attention to the game. I don't think my thoughts have been shallow at all, and yes I think you're confbiased because you've said that if I were to flip town you wouldn't take my reads and thoughts into account at all. Which is literally confbias, refusing to update your beliefs in light of new evidence.

below THIS spoiler is the exchange she had with c4; c4 was the main person accusing them of being w/w

Spoiler: show

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

You really think I can do something like this as a wolf?

Yes obviously.

Mostly I just feel like your attacks on me have been opportunistic timing-wise and not really reflective of how things went down.

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

This whole damn game

You saw me freeze on every single push I ever made in CoV
You saw me do jack shit to advance jack shit from my worldview in CoV
You saw me shamelessly TMI every controversial name in CoV

How tf

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm scumreading you because you're trying to push a very wrong narrative about me.

I caught you in COV because you had terrible associatives with MR. I did not note any particular "freezing" in your pushes or any lack of advancing your worldview. You kinda openwolfed in COV which is why you were caught by association with a red flip, and you pushing me for really bad reasons here is entirely compatible with that play.

"You were wolfy in these two games so they're the same" smh

So is the team exactly me/dya/spf/Zack if the reasons are that bad then? Or is there something specific about the way I did it?

I think you've pushed the narrative that I am trying to protect Gavial because I'm W/W with him the hardest, which I think is pretty blatantly untrue in both senses. The others may be concerned about my alignment, but they're at least trying to figure me out/reason with me, whereas you're just, like, letting other people pile on and then pointing a finger and going "Alison is so wolfy smhsmh".

i think she reacts pretty strongly to both accusations

[Arete]

this is probably a dumb thought but is the fact that Alison uses apostrophes in some of her posts and not others alignment indicative in any way? (e.g. could it indicate something tonal in either direction)

[sunbae]

Oh, I missed the gun post

I don't know, sorry

Remind me tomorrow and i should have a better idea (real life day, not game day)

[Amy]

sunbae, you have a gun with 3 bullets. who are you shooting?

feel free to get as "if x, then y" with it as you like

anyone else is free to answer this as well

Alison!

If town - Bronana!
If scum - Amy?

I tried going further, but I can't.

Shouldnt you be shooting amy if im town?

I would prolly shoot amy, then dya, then dizzy

Dizzy my read on you is based on the fact that you're reading me badly + the Hally kill + your D1 EOD.

beyond self-pres, why do you think i should be shot?

[bronana]

sunbae, you have a gun with 3 bullets. who are you shooting?

feel free to get as "if x, then y" with it as you like

anyone else is free to answer this as well

Alison!

If town - Bronana!
If scum - Amy?

I tried going further, but I can't.

Shouldnt you be shooting amy if im town?

I would prolly shoot amy, then dya, then dizzy

Dizzy my read on you is based on the fact that you're reading me badly + the Hally kill + your D1 EOD.

do you think dizzy specifically fears hally of the potential wolves in this game or something? i thought they townread / defended dizzy

I kept sort of expecting dizzy to tunnel me, but they've been confidently expressing a lot of dislike of my posts / casing me as a wolf, but with a lot of "idk could be wrong i'm not sure" caveats. I'm wavered on whether it's towny or wolfy or neither, lmk if you have any insight there

[c4e5g3d5]

Anyway,

Alison reacted viscerally to me calling her/Seth w/w, and barely reacted to the myriad of others calling her/Seth w/v. If Alison's a wolf, the w/v accusations are the actually threatening ones. With how raw and immediate the reaction was, Alison's probably just town that thought I was setting her up for Seth flipping red.

@Amy @bronana @dyachei @Dyslexicon @staypositivefriend

Reads of this length are my favorite
They're long enough to thoroughly get the point across, but they're short enough that you can just... chuck them at people ya know?

Devil's advocate:
Her having a different reaction may be the relevant thing here though.
If both w/w and w/v are wrong, why not react viscerally to both?

Uh...

She thinks the way I did it specifically was the worst?
She's leaning Seth w by a bit but hasn't said it yet?

Don't have one solid explanation, but it seems a lot more plausible than Alison wearing TMI goggles and having the exact wrong kneejerk reaction.

[Amy]

i will grant that she does directly go after c4's towncred whereas she asserts that dya's confbiased

i'm not sure if that's strong enough a dichotomy to back up c4's read?

[Amy]

below this spoiler is the meat of alison's exchange with dya during the seth shit d1; dya was the main person accusing them of being w/v

Spoiler: show

i think it's w/v

Why can't it be V/V?

because neither of you are villagery. you least of all

Let's say I flip green right now and my arguments that Gavial has been essentially NAI this game are proven to be made in good faith. Are you going to treat him as outed wolf because we're "W/V"?

no, i'm going to treat him as a wolf because his iso in that other game is a lot villagerier than this game and it's not just about whether he posts or not?

why would you flipping green mean you were right on gavial? you've already shown me you can't compare likes

I mean it sounds like you've already made up your mind that we're both wolfy and you're confbiasing the hell out of it then.

you showed me a village game of gav's. that's not his behavior here. therefore he's wolfy rn

you have shown me you're not really paying attention to the game but you're making hard conclusions on it. I'm not sure you give a fuck about this game rn but the thoughts you're providing to the thread are really shallow for you. therefore, you're being wolfy

those things exist no matter what. is it now conf bias to have reads on people?

i'm going to bed

Just to clarify because there's been a lot of talk about how different Gavial was between that game and this. I am not saying that Gavial is exactly the same between that game and this. I actually townread Gavial confidently for being different from Fallout 2 (where he was a wolf) in that game and here I am NAI on him. I am using that link to demonstrate that he can engage in some of the behaviors you're scumreading him for even when he is town. For instance, Amy wrote that she felt that Gavial was just faffing about and doesn't really care about deeply engaging with other players. That's something I think he did in Double Elimination as well, he just pushed his own concerns, told people to fuck off when they were scumreading him and didn't really care to realtime with them or try to seriously evaluate them.

I don't think it's fair or accurate to accuse me of not paying attention to the game. I don't think my thoughts have been shallow at all, and yes I think you're confbiased because you've said that if I were to flip town you wouldn't take my reads and thoughts into account at all. Which is literally confbias, refusing to update your beliefs in light of new evidence.

below THIS spoiler is the exchange she had with c4; c4 was the main person accusing them of being w/w

Spoiler: show

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

You really think I can do something like this as a wolf?

Yes obviously.

Mostly I just feel like your attacks on me have been opportunistic timing-wise and not really reflective of how things went down.

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

This whole damn game

You saw me freeze on every single push I ever made in CoV
You saw me do jack shit to advance jack shit from my worldview in CoV
You saw me shamelessly TMI every controversial name in CoV

How tf

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm scumreading you because you're trying to push a very wrong narrative about me.

I caught you in COV because you had terrible associatives with MR. I did not note any particular "freezing" in your pushes or any lack of advancing your worldview. You kinda openwolfed in COV which is why you were caught by association with a red flip, and you pushing me for really bad reasons here is entirely compatible with that play.

"You were wolfy in these two games so they're the same" smh

So is the team exactly me/dya/spf/Zack if the reasons are that bad then? Or is there something specific about the way I did it?

I think you've pushed the narrative that I am trying to protect Gavial because I'm W/W with him the hardest, which I think is pretty blatantly untrue in both senses. The others may be concerned about my alignment, but they're at least trying to figure me out/reason with me, whereas you're just, like, letting other people pile on and then pointing a finger and going "Alison is so wolfy smhsmh".

i think she reacts pretty strongly to both accusations

@c4e5g3d5

[Dyslexicon]

Shouldnt you be shooting amy if im town?

I would prolly shoot amy, then dya, then dizzy

Dizzy my read on you is based on the fact that you're reading me badly + the Hally kill + your D1 EOD.

I mean, no? And I didn't think much about it.

But I could also rather vote Amy than you right now tbh, when I'm thinking about it.

Ok, but you're reading me badly as well + Why does Hally kill point towards me? I get it superficially, but the last time I was wolf and Hally town they hard town read me all game and I took them to end game (this is a horrible point anyway ew) + What about it?

But you should probably catch up before answering.

[Chloe]

random conglomeration of thoughts as i read through Day 1:

- nut's early response to pressure isn't good at first glance, as it feels like shes deflecting suspicion onto dya like 'look at THOSE wolfy posts!!' and i really vibed with spf's thoughts on the matter. However, upon continuing to read i genuinely think im misunderstanding what she was getting at there, since i had the same thoughts as spf but nut is insistent that the pov is incorrect and her words are being misrepped. Her immediate aggression and F I R E comes with a side of confidence and 'fuck off' that i find to be villagery. She's not rolling over and dying or trying to play to the masses and brush things off as a simple misunderstanding, but instead shes bringing the fight straight to spf's doorstep and also calling out hally for TMI'ing her town in an incredibly passive aggressive manner. i dont have extensive meta on nut like most people here but this feels genuine and i think its a good look tbh (well, alignment-wise lol)

- c4's opener where he immediately pushes spf feels aggressive and bold in a way that stands out in stark contrast to his CoV wolfgame. I really like the fire. He feels tonally comfortable as well. Villagery tbh

- low level read of this post makes me feel like KZA kinda spewed spf town - especially considering the fact that right before that they plopped the easiest and fastest townreads onto nut and hally too. half a townpoint to gayvenclaw

- good post from Vulgard that I vibed with quite a lot in my early skim of the game. Love the stream of consciousness from him throughout d1. Disliked how quickly he gave Marl a townread for a super basic "mindmeld" tho. Progression on Arete feels natural and he documents his read pretty well as he goes along - can see how he gets from place to place. Arete has been repping a SUPER strong read on him like.. basically from the very start, and he could easily have just volton'd and accepted the easy townread without question as a wolf, but instead i actually get the feeling hes trying to sort arete out. Tbh I also feel like vul would be suuuuper nervous as a wolf in this playerlist and on this site - and he doesnt feel uncomfortable at all here. Also his inquisitiveness when he pokes into potential random-ass tells like the fact he thought he might be onto something with the idea that spf might not claim wolf as a wolf (?) i attribute to vullager (and the way he goes about this doesnt feel like 'give me credit for having this wacky idea' like i might expect if he was imitating his v-game). i'm in agreement that what sunbae mentioned in this post is villagery

- Marl's posts just dont feel like they're written by Marl but I don't know how AI that is. If my knowledge of his meta is anything to go by I'd definitely say that his lack of aggression and ego is wolfy as hell, but sure, yeah, new site, strong playerlist, different playstyle. idk. its just weirding me out that it feels like i'm more comfortable than marl - which never happens. this post is so different from how he usually treats v!Hally that it pings me as possibly TMI, but with knowledge that hally was a PR (and indeed playing differently than what i'm used to) its probably fine. on a sidenote i almost feel guilty townreading marl for a derpclear lmfao, even though its.. extremely likely just true. i dont think he would fake that. its cheap. its not him. its lame that we're stopping so low to clear him off of a fuckin derp but yeah it be what it be. the part of my brain that townreads marl currently heavily outweighs the part of my brain that thinks hes a wolf but i dont think i'll ever get over how goddamn weird his posts feel this game lol

- Arete's posts are... fine. If I ignore the disgusting feeling i get every time i read their posts about their S O U L R E A D and how obsessed they are with it i think they're okay. Just okay. Idk maybe I'm crazy. Vul says Arete is megavillagery. Other people say Arete is megavillagery. I just think Arete is Arete. I'm rather whelmed. I've noticed that every time they leave the thread my mind goes "aaaaaaaa but arete isnt insanely villagery???" but whenever they're in the thread with me im like "ok cool we're vibin and arete feels decently townie. nvm on my earlier suspicion." whatever. idk. its probably a me problem

- sunbae feels like hes off in his own world, and i really like all his stream of consciousnss posts. kinda like how i feel about vul it feels like hes just vomiting every idea that comes to his head no matter how fleshed out they are. doesnt feel filtered

- the way c4 and zack butt heads around here doesnt feel very w/w to my gut

- my brain is beginning to die in the middle of page 9 jesus christ

ok i legit cannot keep reading d1 in depth right now. im getting to the point where its becoming a chore and i dread having to click the next page. i wish i was here from the beginning lol, this is exhausting and i have no emotional connection to literally anything that happened d1 - im just trying to immagine what things felt like in the moment
which is sapping all my energy
so
ye im back for a bit if anyone wants to chat
i'll catch up on what i missed i guess
weh

[c4e5g3d5]

below this spoiler is the meat of alison's exchange with dya during the seth shit d1; dya was the main person accusing them of being w/v

Spoiler: show

i think it's w/v

Why can't it be V/V?

because neither of you are villagery. you least of all

Let's say I flip green right now and my arguments that Gavial has been essentially NAI this game are proven to be made in good faith. Are you going to treat him as outed wolf because we're "W/V"?

no, i'm going to treat him as a wolf because his iso in that other game is a lot villagerier than this game and it's not just about whether he posts or not?

why would you flipping green mean you were right on gavial? you've already shown me you can't compare likes

I mean it sounds like you've already made up your mind that we're both wolfy and you're confbiasing the hell out of it then.

you showed me a village game of gav's. that's not his behavior here. therefore he's wolfy rn

you have shown me you're not really paying attention to the game but you're making hard conclusions on it. I'm not sure you give a fuck about this game rn but the thoughts you're providing to the thread are really shallow for you. therefore, you're being wolfy

those things exist no matter what. is it now conf bias to have reads on people?

i'm going to bed

Just to clarify because there's been a lot of talk about how different Gavial was between that game and this. I am not saying that Gavial is exactly the same between that game and this. I actually townread Gavial confidently for being different from Fallout 2 (where he was a wolf) in that game and here I am NAI on him. I am using that link to demonstrate that he can engage in some of the behaviors you're scumreading him for even when he is town. For instance, Amy wrote that she felt that Gavial was just faffing about and doesn't really care about deeply engaging with other players. That's something I think he did in Double Elimination as well, he just pushed his own concerns, told people to fuck off when they were scumreading him and didn't really care to realtime with them or try to seriously evaluate them.

I don't think it's fair or accurate to accuse me of not paying attention to the game. I don't think my thoughts have been shallow at all, and yes I think you're confbiased because you've said that if I were to flip town you wouldn't take my reads and thoughts into account at all. Which is literally confbias, refusing to update your beliefs in light of new evidence.

below THIS spoiler is the exchange she had with c4; c4 was the main person accusing them of being w/w

Spoiler: show

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

You really think I can do something like this as a wolf?

Yes obviously.

Mostly I just feel like your attacks on me have been opportunistic timing-wise and not really reflective of how things went down.

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

This whole damn game

You saw me freeze on every single push I ever made in CoV
You saw me do jack shit to advance jack shit from my worldview in CoV
You saw me shamelessly TMI every controversial name in CoV

How tf

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm scumreading you because you're trying to push a very wrong narrative about me.

I caught you in COV because you had terrible associatives with MR. I did not note any particular "freezing" in your pushes or any lack of advancing your worldview. You kinda openwolfed in COV which is why you were caught by association with a red flip, and you pushing me for really bad reasons here is entirely compatible with that play.

"You were wolfy in these two games so they're the same" smh

So is the team exactly me/dya/spf/Zack if the reasons are that bad then? Or is there something specific about the way I did it?

I think you've pushed the narrative that I am trying to protect Gavial because I'm W/W with him the hardest, which I think is pretty blatantly untrue in both senses. The others may be concerned about my alignment, but they're at least trying to figure me out/reason with me, whereas you're just, like, letting other people pile on and then pointing a finger and going "Alison is so wolfy smhsmh".

i think she reacts pretty strongly to both accusations

Those are so different lolwut

[Amy]

Amy, spoiler is nutella read but put some shades on first cause the format is bayyyyyud
second one is arete thing

Spoiler: show

I kinda wanna just yeet alison, marl, and nutella into the great sky daddy yee haw

woah wait did i miss the part where you're scumreading nutella

talk to me about that one because i pretty strongly disagree

nutellas posts regarding gav and kza read to me as someone that knows both are flipping by start of d2 and is just getting the easy kza "cred"

Off Topic

Hally: the play makes no sense from kza's perspective if he's partnered with gav
it's possible he's tmi-ing him town or it's possible he's town with a ??? take but i dont see what kza has to gain from his posts on gav if they are partnered

Nutella: i think it's decently likely theyre just both wolves

it's not like kza really committed to a strong read on gav, just sort of waved his hand a bit

it's possible he has tmi and gav is actually town but meh

Off Topic

Nutella: vulgards confidence on gav flipping wolf solidifies mine as well, though I was already pretty confident based on how he's behaving

probably keeping symbolic vote on dya for the heck of it

Kza us probably just a wolf too atp

Off Topic

c4: do i need to bother making a read on kza

nutella: na, assuming gav chop vig get kza

Off Topic

amy: i think we stick with gav here?

Nutella: yeah it's prob better to just stick with him

idk

my vote is on kza and i think he has an equal if not higher chance of flipping wolf and i'd be happy with either going over

fight me on that if you want, i get the appeal of just flipping gav regardless

That is someone that knows Gav is flipping villa and kza is dead too and wants the kza cred early

Arete, can you let me know as briefly as possible why at eod you were approaching the game from a "I don't want people to turn on Vulgard so here's a long explanation of a villa read" perspective when if Gav flipped wolf nobody would ever be questioning Vul yet would start to ponder that alignment if Gav flipped villa? This is not a gotcha or a post to shade you, this is flat out just a question hoping I can get a better handle of your pov as eod went down.

I mostly wasn't thinking about Gavial's flip at all (although I did think they were more likely to flip town than scum), I was more thinking, like, if I randomly died N1 or N2 or something, and he were still alive on D4, he's the general-sort-of-player the thread might turn on, particularly if his reads turned out to be wrong (townread for relatively nebulous reasons, not close friends with anyone outside the FoL crowd afaik, nobody except me had particularly strong meta on him) and I wanted to make sure that didn't happen

if Gavial had actually been a wolf I don't think people would have been likely to immediately turn on him but I don't think that really would have reduced the likelihood of people turning on him on day 4, no one was going to give anyone cred for a Gavial hit, although I wasn't specifically thinking about that possibility at EoD

also I didn't care about the wagons, like, at all and I didn't really have strong reads other than Vul but I wanted to do something so that I didn't feel totally useless

am i sucker for just saying "coming up with the idea that it was a 5d chess with multiverse time travel move to prevent vul from getting fear killed 8 real life days from now is just like a town with a strange worry in the back of their head that they needed to throw out there and never a wolf who came up with this explanation"? cause I want to say "coming up with the idea that it was a 5d chess with multiverse time travel move to prevent vul from getting fear killed 8 real life days from now is just like a town with a strange worry in the back of their head that they needed to throw out there and never a wolf who came up with this explanation".

re: nutella, i see what you're getting at? but i think that progression is believable from either alignment - honestly, it reminds me a nonzero amount of my own progression, especially when factoring in that nutella's gut reaction to kza's initial entry was to townread him (same as mine). more pertinently i think that nutella's been very... present, in the game, and that i think her overall body of work points pretty strongly to her being a villager; i don't have any super specific reasons to back this up but on a tonal level it really just feels like she believes the things she's saying

re: arete... i kinda see what you're getting at. i think arete has said a couple of things that are very, like, "if you're a wolf how on god's green earth did you come up with that". like stuff that's off the wall enough that i just want to townread them and forget about it. so i think you have a decent point here, yeah. just wish i could feel better about them between those moments, i guess, cause they otherwise remain very null for me

[dyachei]

@sunbae I've been reading c4's ISO as promised

I feel like a lot of his reads don't have a ton of nuance in them, but the spf read does

Do I actually need to do something proactive about spf

what would you do? and why?

Kill

Because she randed wolf

so he talks about and votes spf early in the game. he pushes it to this degree, too

is now a good time to say that zack's opening post rubbed me the wrong way

probably just not used to him breaking kayfabe, but

in what way did it bother you?

Above: what bothered Amy
Below: "Hey Amy what bothered you?"

Doesn't look like a question actually meant to figure something out

(i actually do sort of townread amy because i think that occam's razor points to her suspicion about zack being genuine)

Just general overexplanation, she could've just said "genuine" and have been done with it.

Little things, but they're things I very distinctly see from her wolf game and not from her town game. Her writing more words than she actually means is a tell I've caught her on quickly before.

here's some of the basis for his spf scum read. He's also claimed to have quite the ability to read her

Does someone want to talk to me about how to find spf as town (or scum, for that matter)? I saw her play in some of Jay's games I spectated but beyond that I'm at a loss for what she's said so far, it was... thorough. But I don't think I'd call spf a town read or anything.

The best way I can describe it is

As town, she thinks
As wolf, she writes

In her wolf posts, there's some sense of architecture to the ideas, and she writes for show a lot. As town she plays by discovery, and her posts make it obvious she's thinking out loud. She's one of the easiest reads out there if you know what you're doing.

You think this a couple hours into D1?

you think the wolves are trying to shove through a cheap misdunk... 3 hours into a 48 hour d1?

Welcome to Alison
This is a thing that'll happen, don't mind it for now.

-----

Caught up, strongest reads off of memory are sunbae and Vulgard always town

here we see more reasoning. I think this is good and shows that he's evaluating the players he knows well first.

Plus any random grouping of five players has approximately a 75% chance of having at least one wolf, if my math is right.

Spoiler: show

1 - (13 / 17)^5 = 73.85% of at least one wolf

if you want to assume "I am town and I am not one of those five players" = 1 - (12 / 16)^5 = 76.3% of at least one wolf

There are some underlying assumptions about votes on a wagon being independent events which isn't really true, but whatever, close enough. Been awhile since I took any stats or probability courses though. Yes this a useless post a wolf could easily make, sue me.

Just gotta pop in with even more wolfy IIOA to say that players' alignments aren't independent so it would actually be

1- (13/17) * (12/16) * (11/15) * (10/14) * (9/13) = 56.1%

Since spf posted her own spf reading guide, here's my less boring spf reading guide from the same game. Spoiler alert, it worked.

See here, he has his own guide to reading her so his wolf read on her feels fairly nuanced, he's experienced, etc. I felt pretty good about him for this case in general

Oh and spf's town lol

until I got to here

[bronana]

random conglomeration of thoughts as i read through Day 1:

- nut's early response to pressure isn't good at first glance, as it feels like shes deflecting suspicion onto dya like 'look at THOSE wolfy posts!!' and i really vibed with spf's thoughts on the matter. However, upon continuing to read i genuinely think im misunderstanding what she was getting at there, since i had the same thoughts as spf but nut is insistent that the pov is incorrect and her words are being misrepped. Her immediate aggression and F I R E comes with a side of confidence and 'fuck off' that i find to be villagery. She's not rolling over and dying or trying to play to the masses and brush things off as a simple misunderstanding, but instead shes bringing the fight straight to spf's doorstep and also calling out hally for TMI'ing her town in an incredibly passive aggressive manner. i dont have extensive meta on nut like most people here but this feels genuine and i think its a good look tbh (well, alignment-wise lol)

feels like you are over-explaining your read on someone you literally called an IC "towntowntowntown" earlier

[Dyslexicon]

do you think dizzy specifically fears hally of the potential wolves in this game or something? i thought they townread / defended dizzy

I kept sort of expecting dizzy to tunnel me, but they've been confidently expressing a lot of dislike of my posts / casing me as a wolf, but with a lot of "idk could be wrong i'm not sure" caveats. I'm wavered on whether it's towny or wolfy or neither, lmk if you have any insight there

I don't. I can imagine I'd be worried that it would tie me to the NK if I were on the team, just because me and Hally have played a lot (but not lately), and I don't know why I would have much to say when I wasn't as involved on D1 in a potential scum team anyway, and I'm certainly not the only one who has a relation to Hally here, and we haven't even talked lately. The whole thing is moot, cause I'm town. =p

It's towny for me

And my scum read keeps weakening tbh. Or idk

[c4e5g3d5]

I have the sudden premonition that I'm getting hit with a progression case

[Chloe]

random conglomeration of thoughts as i read through Day 1:

- nut's early response to pressure isn't good at first glance, as it feels like shes deflecting suspicion onto dya like 'look at THOSE wolfy posts!!' and i really vibed with spf's thoughts on the matter. However, upon continuing to read i genuinely think im misunderstanding what she was getting at there, since i had the same thoughts as spf but nut is insistent that the pov is incorrect and her words are being misrepped. Her immediate aggression and F I R E comes with a side of confidence and 'fuck off' that i find to be villagery. She's not rolling over and dying or trying to play to the masses and brush things off as a simple misunderstanding, but instead shes bringing the fight straight to spf's doorstep and also calling out hally for TMI'ing her town in an incredibly passive aggressive manner. i dont have extensive meta on nut like most people here but this feels genuine and i think its a good look tbh (well, alignment-wise lol)

feels like you are over-explaining your read on someone you literally called an IC "towntowntowntown" earlier

just because i heavily townread nut doesnt mean im going to ignore her posts as i read thru d1 on a deeper level than my earlier skim
im doing my due diligence bubba

[Amy]

below this spoiler is the meat of alison's exchange with dya during the seth shit d1; dya was the main person accusing them of being w/v

Spoiler: show

i think it's w/v

Why can't it be V/V?

because neither of you are villagery. you least of all

Let's say I flip green right now and my arguments that Gavial has been essentially NAI this game are proven to be made in good faith. Are you going to treat him as outed wolf because we're "W/V"?

no, i'm going to treat him as a wolf because his iso in that other game is a lot villagerier than this game and it's not just about whether he posts or not?

why would you flipping green mean you were right on gavial? you've already shown me you can't compare likes

I mean it sounds like you've already made up your mind that we're both wolfy and you're confbiasing the hell out of it then.

you showed me a village game of gav's. that's not his behavior here. therefore he's wolfy rn

you have shown me you're not really paying attention to the game but you're making hard conclusions on it. I'm not sure you give a fuck about this game rn but the thoughts you're providing to the thread are really shallow for you. therefore, you're being wolfy

those things exist no matter what. is it now conf bias to have reads on people?

i'm going to bed

Just to clarify because there's been a lot of talk about how different Gavial was between that game and this. I am not saying that Gavial is exactly the same between that game and this. I actually townread Gavial confidently for being different from Fallout 2 (where he was a wolf) in that game and here I am NAI on him. I am using that link to demonstrate that he can engage in some of the behaviors you're scumreading him for even when he is town. For instance, Amy wrote that she felt that Gavial was just faffing about and doesn't really care about deeply engaging with other players. That's something I think he did in Double Elimination as well, he just pushed his own concerns, told people to fuck off when they were scumreading him and didn't really care to realtime with them or try to seriously evaluate them.

I don't think it's fair or accurate to accuse me of not paying attention to the game. I don't think my thoughts have been shallow at all, and yes I think you're confbiased because you've said that if I were to flip town you wouldn't take my reads and thoughts into account at all. Which is literally confbias, refusing to update your beliefs in light of new evidence.

below THIS spoiler is the exchange she had with c4; c4 was the main person accusing them of being w/w

Spoiler: show

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

You really think I can do something like this as a wolf?

Yes obviously.

Mostly I just feel like your attacks on me have been opportunistic timing-wise and not really reflective of how things went down.

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

This whole damn game

You saw me freeze on every single push I ever made in CoV
You saw me do jack shit to advance jack shit from my worldview in CoV
You saw me shamelessly TMI every controversial name in CoV

How tf

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm scumreading you because you're trying to push a very wrong narrative about me.

I caught you in COV because you had terrible associatives with MR. I did not note any particular "freezing" in your pushes or any lack of advancing your worldview. You kinda openwolfed in COV which is why you were caught by association with a red flip, and you pushing me for really bad reasons here is entirely compatible with that play.

"You were wolfy in these two games so they're the same" smh

So is the team exactly me/dya/spf/Zack if the reasons are that bad then? Or is there something specific about the way I did it?

I think you've pushed the narrative that I am trying to protect Gavial because I'm W/W with him the hardest, which I think is pretty blatantly untrue in both senses. The others may be concerned about my alignment, but they're at least trying to figure me out/reason with me, whereas you're just, like, letting other people pile on and then pointing a finger and going "Alison is so wolfy smhsmh".

i think she reacts pretty strongly to both accusations

Those are so different lolwut

i didn't say they're identical

but to say she doesn't care about the v/w accusations doesn't seem correct, fmpov

like, she's definitely a bit calmer interacting with dya - but she does go out of her way to deal with the accusaion, and writes enough words that i think it's evident she at least cares

she was more abrasive with you, but... is that necessarily town!indicative? alison is usually pretty firmly in control of her emotions

...i'll think about it more, at least

[Dyslexicon]

@Amy Should I bus you?

[Dyslexicon]

@Alison Do you think the content on my read on you is unreasonable?