The Elder Scrolls [GAME OVER]

[Gavial]

You calling me scum/3P based on what exactly?
How I’m playing?
Go look at my other games and get back to me.
Don’t like how I play? To fuckin bad Scotty.
We still play to win regardless of who you may wanna PL.

[Gavial]

As I said before I wanna vote Vulgard due to their post.
I said this a million times Scotty and I KNOW you’ve acknowledged it as well.
So stop being dum dumb!

[Gavial]

Makes me feel like you maybe Scum with Vulgard Scotty and your Deep Wolfing.
So don’t make me think that and do your job and vote scum please!

[TonyStarkPrime]

So I did a perusal of gavial.

I was wrong about a few things.

First of all, his reads haven’t been too inconsistent. When he puts out reads, they’re on a linear path. Sure, they’re all based on astrological charts or some shit but the progression is there.

If he’s a wolf, he’s walking a fine line- I do see an angle.
See, he started with this stupid D1 wheel. This sets up the precedent to invalidate a lot of his opinions down the line. That he continues to lolvote based on the wheel past D1 confirms this.
He firmly reads falcon as scum D1 all the way until falcon is lynched. That’s some hardcore bussing. He also loves his lists of team makeups, and Mac started getting added d2. D2 had: “falcon/mac/Flanders team. Book it” rule of 3 be damned, he included 2/3. That’s ballsy.

if gavial is a wolf, he’s perpetually calling out his partners, but because he mixes them in with others that aren’t bad and also gives no real cases on why they’re bad, who would take him seriously? It’s a viable play, I guess. The WIFOM is so strong that he’s spilled the wine all over the table.

If he is town, he is doing nothing to further the town, built no legit cases on anyone. “But I called out the teams multiple times!” You also have lumped in most people to those teams more than that. Just because a broken clock is right twice a day doesn’t mean I’m gonna follow that clock when prepping a pie in the oven.

I think Gav is the 3p, and at best, mafia. I don’t think we’d miss him if he were to be lynched.

I mean if it’s MYLO/LYLO you’d be missing the chance to win. (Assuming your town)
Because MLing me results in town lost at that point.
Plus I got a watcher check tonight.
Just vote Vulgard tbh.

I think this is a 3P claim but we all knew that already right

[TonyStarkPrime]

But then I took an arrow to the knee

[TonyStarkPrime]

This is very hard for me. It used to be easy but then I took an arrow to the knee

[Gavial]

I mean I’m Town, but I wouldn’t be mad if Tim!SK wins F3.

[Gavial]

Like
Tim SK
Me
TSP.

Pretty sure TSP votes me over Tim there and Tim wins but at the same time I did great Tim as my favourite so I suppose that’s fair.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oh, by the way. There's a mechanical problem.
If I survive today, I don't know what to do. My options are all negative utility in this gamestate like the jailkeep on Gavial.

What are they? Maybe we can brainstorm a creative way to use one beneficially.

I am starting to look for benefits in leaving you and Radish to twist in the wind. I'm getting more and more locked in on one, and only one, of you being a wolf. That leaves two other wolves out in the wild. Rather than take the 50/50/90 between you and Radish, there may be merit in trying to bang out some other wolf that could resolve the issue between the two of you for us.

Now I want to clarify something that I think we as town are largely looking at wrong. The "wolf PR" line of thinking. Falcon should not be treated as a wolf PR. He held the Razor. That was his main thing. He had some other power (I haven't checked back to see what it is) but I am sure the bulk of his power was the Razor and the wolves didn't lose that. So if the wagons came down to Falcon v another wolf (Marmot?) and that wolf was a serious power that would be lost then, yeah, Falcon can just die, bet hellbussed for cred, take his low posting low effort wolf carcass and go.

Hugely agree.

That said, the only possible hellbusser is Kyle. He wasn’t willing to move off Falcon and over to you. If he had, I think it’s fairly reasonable to assume you would have flipped, ESPECIALLY with Marmot also choosing between you and Falcon with me yelling at him to go for you.

So I don’t think there’s a Falcon+Marmot+hellbusser of the Falcon wagon kinda world.

[Jackofhearts2005]

NGL, I want Radish to be the wolf so I can just sheep Vulgard...

Mood.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Scotty says Jack says “Vote for falcon...if your top scum read...will?” wrt me wanting Tim to vote Falcon instead of Marmot. “This makes absolutely no sense”

That’s me trying to consolidate votes. I was voting for Tim. Tim was voting for Marmot. I think Falcon and Tim are wolves and Marmot is town.

Town Tim (in theory) will be willing to switch from town Marmot to wolf Falcon. Wolf Tim (in theory) will be willing to do the same so as to look townie, especially if he’s worried Falcon will flip anyway without his vote, making him look super scummy.

So in theory, making this proposition protects a townread (Marmot) and a wolfread (Tim) to ensure the death of a wolfread (Falcon).

It’s not a nonsensical stall. It’s me trying to save a townie and yeet a wolf which, in the end, I did.

What if Marmot was a wolf all along tho?

Well then I’m an even bigger idiot and Marmot did exactly what I was trying to make you do.

But I don’t think so. Mac’s treatment of Marmot is suicide for no good reason if they’re partnered.

how would you describe "Mac's treatment of Marmot"?

I keep coming back to tied Marmot/Mogh wagons and Mac took Mogh voters (himself and at least 1 other player) and moved them to Gavil.

So if Marmot is a wolf, Mac switches it from Town/Wolf to Different Town(or whatever)/Wolf wagons, which doesn’t actually make Marmit less likely to be yeeted. However, it puts him on record as wanting both CWs to go over Marmot. So if Marmot is yeeted, this makes Mac look very bad, again, without actually managing to make Marmot less likely to be yeeted that day, let alone in the long run.

I have a hard time getting around this reasoning.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I kinda wanna punt and vote Lost Monkey.

3 player wolfteams without Monkey totally exist tho.

[Timsup2nothin]

I kinda wanna punt and vote Lost Monkey.

3 player wolfteams without Monkey totally exist tho.

They do potentially exist...but if one actually does exist I think we are already dead and just don't know it yet. I may follow this punt.

[TonyStarkPrime]

The jailkee claim on Gav actually complicates things a little bit just like when I took an arrow to the knee

[TonyStarkPrime]

@Gavial can you give me a full rundown of your actions thusfar before I took an arrow to the knee

[TonyStarkPrime]

I wanna vote falcon because I thought he was scum on D2 but people in the thread repeatedly said he was town so i stopped going in that direction but now 2 my town reads are voting tim so i am confused on who to vote.

Read on marmot? Read on Tim?

Tim can be scum and town, i am on the fence about it. He has providing info which was useful for town but he been having a bad game or good game with the lynches based on how we see it. I felt that Mac was trying to get people to lynch marmot and would done that today if he was alive. Marmot is town for now for me.

yeah ok wolf
but then I took an arrow to the knee

[TonyStarkPrime]

I wanna vote falcon because I thought he was scum on D2 but people in the thread repeatedly said he was town so i stopped going in that direction but now 2 my town reads are voting tim so i am confused on who to vote.

etc etc
(But then I took an arrow to the knee)

[TonyStarkPrime]

The Mog vote is also disgusting if you consider what Mac would be doing in scum chat at the time that I took an arrow to the knee

[TonyStarkPrime]

Like this is at least often a hit if not always unless I take another arrow to the knee

[TonyStarkPrime]

Like don’t vote for LM as a punt, read the ISO and vote LM as a reasonable decision or else you’ll take an arrow to the knee

[TonyStarkPrime]

let's see if I can get to 10k posts just through taking an arrow to the knee

[Marmot]

Isn't Gavial most likely town at this point? Unless Vulgard is scum and lied about the jailkeep. I guess Gav could still be 3P, but the extra kill still have to be accounted for last night.

[Marmot]

let's see if I can get to 10k posts just through taking an arrow to the knee

I believe in you.

[TonyStarkPrime]

he could have an unblockable kill or something but yeah I'm inclined to agree with you but then I took an arrow to the knee

[TonyStarkPrime]

he could also just be a normal wolf but then I took an arrow to the knee

[Marmot]

Or they're just both Mac teammates and fooling us all :wowee:

[Marmot]

heads up im a nervous wreck. I have an interview in about 2hrs and im prepping. I will try to be here and scum hunt and everything but I can't focus. that is mainly why I was inactive yesterday. hopefully it goes well and I can focus on the game after the interview

Good luck Daisy!

[Marmot]

We need to solve LoMo at some point with his activity. If we don't yeet him, someone vig him plz.

[Timsup2nothin]

We need to solve LoMo at some point with his activity. If we don't yeet him, someone vig him plz.

If a bunch of people gather at one shrine and tell me where then I can maybe buy another shot, otherwise I think the vig shrine visitor on N7 is all we are gonna get.

[Marmot]

It seems like a quiet time, and I've only got an hour or so (I won't be around at deadline).

I'll keep looking at falcon interactions and also MR. What's the case on him right now?

[Marmot]

We need to solve LoMo at some point with his activity. If we don't yeet him, someone vig him plz.

If a bunch of people gather at one shrine and tell me where then I can maybe buy another shot, otherwise I think the vig shrine visitor on N7 is all we are gonna get.

Night 7 is probably too far away with three scum and a 3P left. If you get a vig tonight, you can't use it until Night 6 right?

[Timsup2nothin]

It seems like a quiet time, and I've only got an hour or so (I won't be around at deadline).

I'll keep looking at falcon interactions and also MR. What's the case on him right now?

Radishes made a quote wall case on Falcon. That's a HUGE investment from the "IDGAF" standard Radishes has set for himself...so we ask "why make that huge investment and never even vote it?"

My suggested answer is that it was just laid down to be read for town cred if Falcon did actually flip.

[Timsup2nothin]

We need to solve LoMo at some point with his activity. If we don't yeet him, someone vig him plz.

If a bunch of people gather at one shrine and tell me where then I can maybe buy another shot, otherwise I think the vig shrine visitor on N7 is all we are gonna get.

Night 7 is probably too far away with three scum and a 3P left. If you get a vig tonight, you can't use it until Night 6 right?

I have the basic instruction "put in a target and if you get the shot you shoot." So if enough people gather in one place with me I can shoot. But I am starting from zero because last night was a complete bust. At a guess I need at least five, maybe six, customers...and I am wary of gathering that many people in a pre-arranged place because I think that might trigger who knows what kind of power strike from the 3P, or the wolves even.

I'm sorry I haven't guessed better. If I had understood how ridiculously fascinated everyone was gonna be with the chaos shrine I'd have shot two people already I think.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like don’t vote for LM as a punt, read the ISO and vote LM as a reasonable decision or else you’ll take an arrow to the knee

I mean, he’s posted twice today and five times yesterday, some of those posts having no content.

There’s plenty in the iso that could be distancing with Mac and Falcon tho

[Marmot]

It seems like a quiet time, and I've only got an hour or so (I won't be around at deadline).

I'll keep looking at falcon interactions and also MR. What's the case on him right now?

Radishes made a quote wall case on Falcon. That's a HUGE investment from the "IDGAF" standard Radishes has set for himself...so we ask "why make that huge investment and never even vote it?"

My suggested answer is that it was just laid down to be read for town cred if Falcon did actually flip.

LOL! I can't stop laughing that the case on MR is that he made a case. I don't think I've ever seen MR make a case like that before.

It seems like he wasn't around at EOD. I don't remember the exact vote wagon changes, but I think there was some shuffling, and it's possible that his vote was on you when you and falcon were his top two scumreads, and you had a larger wagon.

That said, I don't understand why he voted for you. He made a case on falcon, and his read on you was "tim doesn't seem gleeful this game, and v!tim is usually happy". The falcon read to me looks more substantiated.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Whatever [VOTE: LostMonkey] aubergine

[Marmot]

So uh. I'm feeling iffy on Falc.

He hasn't comment on me at all iirc and then came out with a strong town read on me due to meta. I prompted him to explain because I got pinged by how confident he was. (Keep in mind, btw, that he and I go back a couple years on CDC.)

It's in the way you ask questions and probe the game, your approach is def in your town meta. I mean, I guess you could be faking it, but I don't think that's the case here

That's...a pretty vague answer. It certainly doesn't make me think 'ah yeah, Falcon's got me nailed to a tee'. And that little 'I guess you could be faking but' line that's tagged on feels like it's meant to prevent anyone thinking it sounds TMI-level confident, rather than actually indicate real hesitation.

And, pre-empting my obvious follow-up, he reaches into my iso to illustrate his read.

So anyway, Tim is scum huh.

Nope, not this time. But you already knew that.

Eh. We'll see. You don't feel right. Your push on me feels inauthentic considering you've recently wolfed with me and saw how I operate.

This is towny MR

I think your reasons on Daisy are valid. Like the questions but no follow up and apathy towards wagons are definite scum behavioural tendencies.

But when she and Jack were bickering earlier it was one of the few events of the game I've been somewhat present for, and it felt quite t/t to me. I felt like the frustration and omgusing had a delicate hint of genuineness to them.

So I dunno. Despite the logic, I'm not convinced.

And this is towny MR

if you think that in this game we have drawn a scumteam with 0 slankers you will need to explain what makes that rational?

history speaks to the contrary. If anything the fact that we have chopped two slanky poos and missed makes the slanky poo pool more rich with floaters.

Not 0 slankers. Probably some.

But instead of firing blindly and lazily into the slanky pool let's do some actual work and find the active scum. And even if we miss we force said active scum to Do Stuff.

More towny MR

Those are...not great examples of 'the way you ask questions' or 'probing the game' tbh. They're very bland questions/reactions. They are at best mildly towny, but not 'strong meta read' towny. It kind of feels like he just picked out the first three 'questions/probings' that he spotted. Like how do these examples scream 'probing the game' to anyone? I'm not a great wolf, but I can fake posts like that no sweat.

As soon as I saw Falc's initial post I had one specific encounter in mind that I think is 'vintage slanky town MR' and Falc did not find it. (It was my initial response to Mac, fyi.) If he had given me that I might've given him a pass. Maybe.


tl;dr Falc's meta read is too strong based on his presented evidence of why he has it. It feels like a pocket attempt.

Sure, sounds good.



I'm kinda checked out of this game right now TBH. Do what you will

This is falcon's response to the case. It looks like falcon just gave up with this post, which makes me a little surprised that MR wouldn't have jumped on the wagon. Maybe falcon wanted a bus, but MR decided to hold out since mine and tim's wagons were both competing near the end of day.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[Master Radishes]

LOL! I can't stop laughing that the case on MR is that he made a case. I don't think I've ever seen MR make a case like that before.

Once upon a time I was a regular Sloonei believe it or not. It's a lot of work though and I gave it up.

It seems like he wasn't around at EOD. I don't remember the exact vote wagon changes, but I think there was some shuffling, and it's possible that his vote was on you when you and falcon were his top two scumreads, and you had a larger wagon.

Yeah. I *have* said this, but

[Marmot]

Jack's punting hee ho

[Master Radishes]

Also can we stop mischaracterising my post on falc please.

It wasn't an iso case. I literally just pulled up his recent posts about me and said 'he's pocketing me'.

Dude is my friend from CDC. It pinged me. I was right. Later, I stuck to the Tim wagon anyway. End of story.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Is Lost Monkey a wolf?

Spoiler: show

Actually, yes.

[Timsup2nothin]

It seems like a quiet time, and I've only got an hour or so (I won't be around at deadline).

I'll keep looking at falcon interactions and also MR. What's the case on him right now?

Radishes made a quote wall case on Falcon. That's a HUGE investment from the "IDGAF" standard Radishes has set for himself...so we ask "why make that huge investment and never even vote it?"

My suggested answer is that it was just laid down to be read for town cred if Falcon did actually flip.

LOL! I can't stop laughing that the case on MR is that he made a case. I don't think I've ever seen MR make a case like that before.

It seems like he wasn't around at EOD. I don't remember the exact vote wagon changes, but I think there was some shuffling, and it's possible that his vote was on you when you and falcon were his top two scumreads, and you had a larger wagon.

That said, I don't understand why he voted for you. He made a case on falcon, and his read on you was "tim doesn't seem gleeful this game, and v!tim is usually happy". The falcon read to me looks more substantiated.

That's the point. In what world does v!Radishes go to the great lengths of making a case? This is like "sign of the apocalypse world." And then v!Radishes, in sign of the apocalypse world, says "but I'll just vote Tim and go." Just, no.

[Master Radishes]

'...go to greath lengths of making a case...'

Like that. That's overselling what I did. By quite a lot.

[Timsup2nothin]

Is Lost Monkey a wolf?

Spoiler: show

Actually, yes.

This seems valid.

[VOTE: Lost Monkey] aubergine

I reserve the right to accuse Jack of wolfing should this end badly.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I get the idea “Radishes is lazy.”

I get the idea “Radishes said he scumread the wolf but voted a no wolf instead.”

I don’t get the idea “Radishes making a case at all = scum Radishes.”

[Marmot]

Also can we stop mischaracterising my post on falc please.

It wasn't an iso case. I literally just pulled up his recent posts about me and said 'he's pocketing me'.

Dude is my friend from CDC. It pinged me. I was right. Later, I stuck to the Tim wagon anyway. End of story.

I think we're all calling it a case, not an ISO case (unless this is terminology from earlier in the day)

[Master Radishes]

I get the idea “Radishes is lazy.”

I get the idea “Radishes said he scumread the wolf but voted a no wolf instead.”

I don’t get the idea “Radishes making a case at all = scum Radishes.”

Actually tbh that last one fits my scum meta best.

[Master Radishes]

Also can we stop mischaracterising my post on falc please.

It wasn't an iso case. I literally just pulled up his recent posts about me and said 'he's pocketing me'.

Dude is my friend from CDC. It pinged me. I was right. Later, I stuck to the Tim wagon anyway. End of story.

I think we're all calling it a case, not an ISO case (unless this is terminology from earlier in the day)

Right. But it wasn't really a 'case' either. I just pointed out a pattern of recent posts and commented on them. It took all of five minutes.

[Master Radishes]

Like you guys are literally looking at the size of the post and assigning it more weight than it merits.