Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Evenstar]

And I've now read your updated Rabbit case and that looks good too. Scales are definitely tipping towards Epi being the scum in your pair. I don't like that because it means Dom's probably town, but I can deal.

@Evenstar why do you have epi/Dom not w/w

I don't feel like any sane scumteam just completely commits to trying to body you through the floor today.

Dom and Epi have both been extremely agressive towards you, and I just don't buy that a pair of wolves would be that brazen.

I could be wrong and Dom could just have piled onto his scumleader's case without really thinking about it, but... Frankly, I think Dom actually does think through his actions better than that. Plus, he's been acting weirdly buddyish at Epi, which is additional evidence they're not w/w.

I reject this characterization of my interaction with iaafr. My purpose was to get satisfactory answers so that I could make a judgment. iaafr was the person who had the most posts that I had the most muddied view of. I'm not pleased with how it happened, but I ultimately accomplished my purpose.

What view did you achieve?

And how did that pressure lead to your achieving it?

[iaafr]

look if people are gonna keep pushing me on stuff I could defend myself against with quotes from d1 d2 I'm gonna keep acting annoying because I'm annoyed I cant

and like

I don't even agree with the whole protocol of accusing somebody directly to their face and asking them to defend themselves

I don't think you need to be defending yourself at this juncture.

I'm not saying I am I'm just reiterating why I felt the way at did at the earlier juncture where you pretty much demanded I defend myself in ways that I didn't even consider meritorious things to investigate

I still believe it's silly to think the best way of reading me was to question me on the reason for the no Lynch, which is evidenced by the fact that me telling the truth in response didn't help you trust me

[iaafr]

he ultimately got to townreading me on some other logic having to do with my direction today but i don't remember exactly what

[Epignosis]

And I've now read your updated Rabbit case and that looks good too. Scales are definitely tipping towards Epi being the scum in your pair. I don't like that because it means Dom's probably town, but I can deal.

@Evenstar why do you have epi/Dom not w/w

I don't feel like any sane scumteam just completely commits to trying to body you through the floor today.

Dom and Epi have both been extremely agressive towards you, and I just don't buy that a pair of wolves would be that brazen.

I could be wrong and Dom could just have piled onto his scumleader's case without really thinking about it, but... Frankly, I think Dom actually does think through his actions better than that. Plus, he's been acting weirdly buddyish at Epi, which is additional evidence they're not w/w.

I reject this characterization of my interaction with iaafr. My purpose was to get satisfactory answers so that I could make a judgment. iaafr was the person who had the most posts that I had the most muddied view of. I'm not pleased with how it happened, but I ultimately accomplished my purpose.

What view did you achieve?

That if my mafia teammate reacted in that fashion, I'd be displeased.

I don't think iaafr is mafia, and as much as I despise that he didn't vote Day 1 and the purported reason why he didn't vote, I am having trouble sensing a mafia agenda this Day. If iaafr is mafia, then it will be the first time I've witnessed someone be mafia like that. I'm willing to play the odds and leave him alone.

[iaafr]

not to mention one of the first things that happened d2 was Mac questioning me on the no lynch and me answering the exact same way

which epi presumably read

[iaafr]

oh right that was it

I'm too unpleasant to be scum

I'll take that read tbh it's valid.

[Epignosis]

not to mention one of the first things that happened d2 was Mac questioning me on the no lynch and me answering the exact same way

which epi presumably read

The Day phase was a whirlwind and I struggle to keep up since I do not get home and settled in until about after 5pm (and the poll ended at 6pm). There were about a dozen pages to read through.

I'm sure I read whatever it was Mac asked and you answered, but no way I remember it.

[iaafr]

can you quote the strongest bits of insight from epi

@Master Radishes

would like to wake up to a mention with this, please and thank you

gn

I've seen it and will do it in x hours. Not doing it on phone, so I'll wait till I get home tonight.

i dont see that radishes ever got around to this but ill take his recent waffling on epi as an acceptable substitute

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

112

honestly, guys, i'm just going to role-play my character the whole game and hope that through magickal energies i can help us effect a good outcome

Man, this got all kinds of fakey fakey shit in it. Goddamn.

wrong again, drago

The first interaction is Dragomir giving an over-the-top assessment of 112's post that doesn't quite serve as an accusation and doesn't possess any meat. It goes nowhere.

but it rly could just be me mindmelding with 112s personality rather than alignment and not doing so with mac and nutella etc

but uh 112s personality here is like my town personality and the timing of that question of that read on nutella and mac was like

its a question id have already asked in this gamestate if i were in a more tryhard/contentforcey mentality

i don't understand the purpose of 112 saying that thing in the first place

i make posts to psych myself up sometimes like when i actually feel like im gonna have a good town game

idk

i relate to the sentiment and find it towny

How do you mindmeld with a personality? That doesn't make any sense to me.

This reaction exists.

What is it based on then?

Read the last page and you'll find out.

I did. Why'd your read evaporate as soon as you got confirmation that flavor isn't alignment-indicative?

Then it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.

Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.

No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.

tell 'em

There are reasons why I posted what I did. None of them should particularly concern anyone.

This exchange says more about Evenstar than it does 112.

Question for all of you, do you guys believe this game would have some fake claims? I personally think yes. It's a big factor in why I suspect 112 as a matter of fact.

Yeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.

But in this game characters are random, in ME like me being shep meant that I was good and you being some bad alien thing meant you were bad

From what I've read of you: you seem too reasonable to be town. What do you think?

In the wake of Dragomir flinging crud at him, 112 expresses suspicion of TSP (Unless "you" here refers to somebody else. ).

iaafr

creature
dragomir
michelle
sprityo
benson

evenstar
hyena

null line

112
macdougall
jackofhearts
nutella

why the fuck are both Creature and Dragomir so high here
Also not getting great vibes from benson
Nutella and Jack ought to be higher, too
overall, garbage readslist, making me feel worse about Iaafr

This is bad as hell. How can you use the fact that you disagree with the read list against iaafr? Ppl have different perspectives and won't always share your own. I despise the shade that you're throwing at iaafr here.

I hate the tone of the bolded.

I hate the uselessness of our boldface feature against the dark background.

Again, I'm not sure what to do with this. 112 throws a jab at Dragomir but doesn't elaborate or go anywhere with it.

i read you wrong d1 of wc1 too

anyway im over the nutella read

i read hyena's iso and i dont love it and there are a few scummy points

like trying to signal that he needs to interact more with mac before he can develop a read (recently played against a scum who insisted he needed more realtime interaction)
kinda high fluff interaction ratio and his pushes are a bit strange

so something like dragomir/hyena/112 now

still feel 112 is posturey after all and not actually that towny?

i mean theyre promising big so im waiting on the delivery

i like the thought here. drago/hyena aren't terrible picks- as in i can see why you'd have them there, particularly drago. but they're also on the borderline between being good reads for a civilian to push and good reads for a wolf to push if that makes sense. i know you're wrong about me, so that gives me additional pause here.

in the game i remember playing with you, i had a strong and confident town-read on you right up until i was mislynched with you on the wagon. i'm not feeling as confident as i am in you as i was then, and you going back and forth on your read on me--and notably changing it after being called on a potential pocket attempt--makes me wonder.

My my my. 112 likes the thought but pushes against it anyway in the most vapid and ambivalent way possible.

What jumps off the page even more is that 112 has lumped Hyena (alignment unknown) into the same category as Dragomir (mafia). The category itself makes no sense whatsoever, and I have to question the motive behind lumping to the two individuals together in so equivocal a boat.

This is 112's worst post in the wake of the Dragomir reveal.

Drago calls people on tonal stuff, but his is possibly the worst in the game. Is this an instance of someone accusing others of what they think they themselves are guilty of?

I don't know. Is it?

i make like 100 posts a game when i'm town that can arguably be read as tmi. i think tmi reads should only be given good weight when they're very blatant. i haven't even read the alleged mac-drago tmi though, just want to say that i can understand why mac might be frustrated here.

I'm going to get to MacDougall, but this exists and like the question above, does nothing to express a concrete opinion on Dragomir.

i read you wrong d1 of wc1 too

anyway im over the nutella read

i read hyena's iso and i dont love it and there are a few scummy points

like trying to signal that he needs to interact more with mac before he can develop a read (recently played against a scum who insisted he needed more realtime interaction)
kinda high fluff interaction ratio and his pushes are a bit strange

so something like dragomir/hyena/112 now

still feel 112 is posturey after all and not actually that towny?

i mean theyre promising big so im waiting on the delivery

i like the thought here. drago/hyena aren't terrible picks- as in i can see why you'd have them there, particularly drago. but they're also on the borderline between being good reads for a civilian to push and good reads for a wolf to push if that makes sense. i know you're wrong about me, so that gives me additional pause here.

in the game i remember playing with you, i had a strong and confident town-read on you right up until i was mislynched with you on the wagon. i'm not feeling as confident as i am in you as i was then, and you going back and forth on your read on me--and notably changing it after being called on a potential pocket attempt--makes me wonder.

This is the only literate post of 112 to date, I believe, and it stays fairly non-committal.

@112 , I would like to know your opinion on Benson, Master Radishes, iaafr, nutella, and Epignosis. What are their alignments, and how are they connected?

@112

they're probably all town and connected by the interconnectivity of the universe.

This reflects well on Elephant. Also note that I am good here but I became a suspect of 112's for my "lazy list."

I went to sleep last night with my girl being the leading wagon, now it's Elephant and Hyena. What happened?

Why is this of such immediate importance?

Cause I want to know what is going on. I hate being behind, can't do anything.

This is a softball interaction that goes nowhere.

Drago has seemingly disappeared while several people are calling for his head. Never a good look.

I need him to post so I can re-evaluate that read. I'm still kinda holding on to his start that I liked.

it feels like you really had to force this post tbh

Raise your hand if you agree with 112 that Benson had to force this post.

honestly, guys, i'm just going to role-play my character the whole game and hope that through magickal energies i can help us effect a good outcome

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

Well that 112 read goes to shit now.

It’s clear that Dragomir’s opinion was bunk. Elephant (rightly) afforded Dragomir the opportunity to walk his view of 112 all the way back to I-don’t-have-vote-for-him-ville.

++++

112 all but disappeared down the stretch of Day 1, and the final vote ended up on one T. Liberal, a one-off.

I'm not going to waste words: 112 is a good candidate to be aligned with Dragomir, and I do not regret my Day 1 vote in the least.



















Benson

I'm on bosrd with dragon that 112 initial character talk was Wolfy.

That spelling is suspect.

I'm giving Drago a villa read for the character tin foil.

I think this is fine. Quick, explicit, to the point, reason stated.

Dragomir is getting a lot of townreads. I'd be stunned if this isn't TMI from somewhere.

Stunned? Does that make *this* TMI then?

Mafucka ninja'd me. Shit lol. Mindmeld buddies. I got the same idea. He sounds way too sure that there is TMI involved, so he must know that I'm town.

Ya, let's lynch him

Spoiler: show

112 and MR will know what this "siren" option means to me, and how I'm definitely gonna abuse it.

I'm not sure I get this. But I like it.

long cons town I think

what why?

I liked your post saying I pinged you. seemed natural. I think if scum wanted to push me you would've given at least one reason.

also scum tend to see my overall game as Towny and tend to tmi me town more than vaguely sus me

before that, I also mildly liked you saying we post too much. I think town say that more than scum by some amount relative to rand% or whatever.

Well, don't be so hasty, I'm putting together a post with some of the reasons.

it's too late I'm townreading you forever now get rekt

Where are you at with Drago? I remember you said he was pinging you since you put him down as villa but I can remember if you said why or not

Benson interjects into a conversation he isn't even a part of to ask about Dragomir. Hmm.

what why?

I liked your post saying I pinged you. seemed natural. I think if scum wanted to push me you would've given at least one reason.

also scum tend to see my overall game as Towny and tend to tmi me town more than vaguely sus me

before that, I also mildly liked you saying we post too much. I think town say that more than scum by some amount relative to rand% or whatever.

Well, don't be so hasty, I'm putting together a post with some of the reasons.

it's too late I'm townreading you forever now get rekt

Should I finish doing that post, or are you going to concede and save me the trouble?

i mean im town so if you have any other scumreads your time is better spent there

also @benson i dont remember what pinged me about drago

something something activity patterns something something his aggression is a bit too pointed and gave me some scum vibes at times...? felt like he was pushing where i sussed...? idk man

for how not into this game i am i really should be posting less

I thought it was weird when right after Eva made her case against Mac, Drago popped in just to tell us he *had* a case against Mac but didn't have time to write it all out. It was like he wanted to get on the wagon early for whatever reason.

Hmm. Indeed. Alone, these posts could mean anything. Together, they look authentic.

maybe we should just lynch dragomir because i hate this post

Dragomir is getting a lot of townreads. I'd be stunned if this isn't TMI from somewhere.

Stunned? Does that make *this* TMI then?

Mafucka ninja'd me. Shit lol. Mindmeld buddies. I got the same idea. He sounds way too sure that there is TMI involved, so he must know that I'm town.

It does feel like the slick pander of a con artist. "Shit lol. Mindmeld buddies."

Yeesh, possibly. Especially when my comment wasn't anything extraordinary.

Noted.

Town + town read

Benson

iaafr
Evenstar


Town lean

Creature
Hyena
juliets
MacDougall


Null +

Epignosis
Master Radishes
nutella
Pawn Lelouch
Jackofhearts2005
sprityo
vanity.


Null

DFaraday
Dom
Dragomir
Long Con
Michelle
novaselinenever
Spiny Creature
Quin
Rej


Null - / slight wolf suspicion

Elephant
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Texas Cloverleaf


wolfy

112
TonyStarkPrime
Trustworthy Liberal


A lot of these are shit reads and determined on the spot.

I have no grievance with this with regard to Dragomir.

Drago has seemingly disappeared while several people are calling for his head. Never a good look.

I need him to post so I can re-evaluate that read. I'm still kinda holding on to his start that I liked.

I don't care for the needless adverb, but spot on otherwise.

Drago has seemingly disappeared while several people are calling for his head. Never a good look.

I need him to post so I can re-evaluate that read. I'm still kinda holding on to his start that I liked.

it feels like you really had to force this post tbh

Maybe. I had Drago on my mind (I'm trying to resolve that read) and I just started writing.

Ah, here is that 112 response. Again, I would love to know what is forced about Benson's post here.

112, do you understand why I'm wolf reading you?

I understand everything. I am the most intelligent agency in the universe.

You're dying soon

I like this. Benson had beef with 112, kept on it, but voted out a mafia member too.

Is Drago the type to start slanking when he's wolf and getting called out? Because he's been gone a long time after a fairly active start.

I asked this before but does anyone from this forum know if Drago has the propensity to slank like this as wolf?

I asked this before but does anyone from this forum know if Drago has the propensity to slank like this as wolf?

Idk.

Drago is always town and Rej is always a wolf and Drago always catches him.

We’re in uncharted territory here.

How do you know that scenario isn't the case and Drago just hasn't seen enough to catch him yet?

My one caveat:

If I am squinting a little and perhaps being a bit uncharitable, this could be a Dragomir teammate who is upset about a quiet mafia chat room.

yea idk the dragomir wagon looks sketchier, so says my heart

Whaaaat? The dragomir wagon looks hype right now compared to the 112 wagon.

Yeah this

That's where Benson ended up.

If Drago flips wolf I'm treating myself to ice cream

I don't know about this. Cats only eat vegetables, right?

++++

The overall interaction for Benson looks great. There are minor complaints I have. Let those be resolved Day 2, but if I had to guess, Benson is a civilian.













Creature

iaafr

creature
dragomir
michelle
sprityo
benson

evenstar
hyena

null line

112
macdougall
jackofhearts
nutella

why the fuck are both Creature and Dragomir so high here
Also not getting great vibes from benson
Nutella and Jack ought to be higher, too
overall, garbage readslist, making me feel worse about Iaafr

This is bad as hell. How can you use the fact that you disagree with the read list against iaafr? Ppl have different perspectives and won't always share your own. I despise the shade that you're throwing at iaafr here.

I super question how badly this list is off. Feels like they're not playing the same game as me. That means they're probably not the same alignment as me. QED.

I see, so you're mafia and iaafr is town? Cool.

Meh, this probably makes Dragomir town

Not good.

I don't really see the point in making character claiming legal when your character isn't alignment indicative.

Roleplay and shit

Not bad.

There is no way on God's green earth that I am going to spend my only day off this week reading ten pages that have appeared between now and the time I went to bed last night.

Don't worry, you're going to be lynched pretty soon anyway

Eh, fuck it. Both Hyena and Dragomir are fairly low, so I'm willing to take out the creep first. Since while I'm pretty damn sure he's one of the people who have been roleplaying their roles like Mac, he's still gross about it.

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

I get the joke, but eh.

basically (out of order)

Town:
Dragomir
iaafr
Creature
vanity.
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Townlean:
MacDougall
nutella
Epignosis
Spiny Creature
sprityo
Pawn Lelouch
Evenstar

Null:
Benson
Quin
Lady Lambdadelta
Dom
Trustworthy Liberal
novaselinedear
Jackofhearts2005
Elephant

Scumlean:
Long Con
112
DFaraday
Hyena
Michelle

Scum:
TonyStarkPrime
Rej
juliets

That's not good.

++++

Creature voted None.

There are issues here. I see Creature as a compatible teammate. There isn't much interaction here, but what is here is questionable.

Elephant

honestly, guys, i'm just going to role-play my character the whole game and hope that through magickal energies i can help us effect a good outcome

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

This is checkmate.

There aren’t really any other meaningful interactions with Dragomir, but I like this one to an extent that I’m almost (almost) willing to call Elephant a civilian and move on. I have a few nitpicky things but shutting down the mafia leader’s nonsense like that and going on about his business reeks of a civilian smackdown to me. Yes, I’m aware that the vote did not end up on Dragomir, but he had more problems with 112 (as did I), so throw this guy some peanuts.



































Evenstar

I am not going through the sexual jokes. They do not mean anything to me.

Why are there 9 freaking pages? I don't wanna read all that.

... you def signed up for the wrong game, between me, Mac and Nanook. (And uhhhhhh I'm sure there's someone else blabby here too. It'll come back to me.)

This is a small thing that is small point in Evenstar’s favor.

Oh, and by the way, Dragomir is very likely scum for engaging with that and taking it as far as he did. He's looking for excuses to spam the thread and look active. Also, he's terrible at flirting. In both cases: get some better content, bitch boy.

If I could vote, I'd be voting them right about now.

This though bears commentary, however, since Dragomir’s antics lead to Evenstar expressing a strong opinion early that ended up being correct. I think her ultimate vote on 112 indicates that she was not concerned with making a credit grab.

current scumreads:
Whatsisface morgan uhhhh Dragomir
112
iaafr

townies:
tony
mac
nutella

there should probably be more people here but I CBA this late

night all, flights of angels sing thee to thy rest etc etc

I suspect 112 and iaafr. How do you feel about that?

Depends. Why do you suspect them?

Good answer.

I don't vote on command.

The fact that you feel the need to say this in a phase with no voting is super mega off. Double-barreled FoS here, gonna drop my vote here when daystart happens unless something major intervenes.

I like this interaction. It does not seem phony.

iaafr

creature
dragomir
michelle
sprityo
benson

evenstar
hyena

null line

112
macdougall
jackofhearts
nutella

why the fuck are both Creature and Dragomir so high here
Also not getting great vibes from benson
Nutella and Jack ought to be higher, too
overall, garbage readslist, making me feel worse about Iaafr

Evenstar challenging iaafr for this is also a good look.

-snip read wall-

You seem to be having a lot of town reads. Do you have any scum ones?

bad post tbqh

I’m fine stopping here and calling Evenstar unaligned with Dragomir.






























Hyena

You seem to be having a lot of town reads. Do you have any scum ones?

Let's say Mac and Sprityo are scumreads for me right now.

Cool, would it be too much to ask why?

For Mac, I didn't like that he shut down my attempt to banter with him earlier, and I also felt like he was trying to pocket nutella.
For Sprityo, I didn't like his response to Jack in the post I quoted.

Dragomir saw fit to prod Hyena early on.

Also, I think Evenstar and Mac are scum and that they are distancing from each other. :3

Hoho, I'd like to see an elaboration on this.

Because neither one of them are serious trying to solve me right now, nor are they allowing me to solve them. I feel like Mac in particular doesn't want to interact with me at all. He's SCAAAAARED~! Even though she denied it earlier, Evenstar tried to pocket me earlier.

Okay.

Hi, Eva. <3

Hyena: ... I was going to back off my read here on the basis that the Epignosis thing was NAI if he's town, but it still must be said that his case on Spiny was utter bullshit. That kind of prank doesn't strike me as Town!Hyena. But his tone has been good otherwise, and he's doing the prodding thing he does when he's town.

@Hyena: Can you explain what you were doing WRT Spiny?

So, the first time I mentioned Spiny, I was comparing her way of just mentioning me in her post to Dragomir's way of asking me about it directly. I liked the way Dragomir approached me about, and plus, I figured it might get Spiny's attention if I spoke up about it. However, I think I got sidetracked with something or someone else because I forgot I had prodded her until she spoke up again while I was around.

It was at that point I just figured I'd return to that earlier point to see what she'd say. However, I didn't realize she had said that she wanted to catch up first before commenting (yes, I didn't read the entire post, lol). I still wanted to prod her, though, so I just started being troll-y. That's where the "over explanation" and "fence sitting" stuff came from. As for saying she was townreading Pawn, I wasn't completely paying attention to her posts, but it felt like a good thing to say. :3

I already posted what I thought about the interaction earlier. Just to repeat, I did find it odd how eager she was to make me understand what was going on with her and what she was doing. I don't even know if she was scumreading me or not. If she was, I don't know why she didn't just tell me to shut up, lol.

Here Hyena expressed a positive view of Dragomir, but has a specific and believable reason for that, comparing and contrasting Dragomir’s approach with that of Spiny Creature. It is also encouraging that the Dragomir / Spiny Creature difference wasn’t the only thing Hyena had to talk about. This looks good even if the result is wrong.

Hey @boo can you do me a huuuuge favor?

I know you haven't read much of any of the game, but I'd appreciate it if you voted 112 to help me tie them up with Drago. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, that's fine. Just let me know.

[VOTE: epignosis] aubergine

Welp.
[VOTE: 112] aubergine

Got more voters on Epi and I'll join you.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

i mean i still want drago dead today so whatever

Then why are you making 112 more viable by closing in on Drago's wagon?

Because having a second viable wagon pressures people to vote for one or the other to make sure the one they wanted out is lynched.

At face value, this looks like an attitude held by a civilian Day 1.

++++

Overall, the positives strongly outweigh the negatives for Hyena. I can see him as a teammate trying to cause a ruckus at the end and save Dragomir, but I don’t.
























iaafr

I am tunneling Nutella for answering the poll but not posting in the thread.

as innocent aligned

because mafia might be more self conscious about that sort of thing

"but iaafr, this phase is for friendly chit chat and theres no ly-"

NO THIS IS SERIOUS TIME I HAVE TWO STRONG READS THEY ARE NUTELLA GREEN MICHELLE RED

also I wrote this before Nutella started posting and I'm just gonna roll with this read even though the premise is literally untrue now

You openly claimed indie when suspected as such but here you address yourself as innocent-aligned. Indies obviously don't invest innocent so this lie is quite glaring. I'm starting to think you're a harmful 3rd who tried setting themselves up as town but gave it up. I have no reason to believe a harmless indie would lie like this. Or am I mistaken iaafr?

oh i just saw this post

no i mean i was tunneling nutella town

im not saying im the one innocent aligned

but the 3p claim was a lie anyway so youre like double wrong

So this is fun.

iaafr meant something entirely different from what Dragomir interpreted it as, and Dragomir based an accusation on that misunderstanding.

Yeah Creature is town.

I hate this post.

that post pinged me too actually

torn overall on jack tbh

Okay.

iaafr

creature
dragomir
michelle
sprityo
benson

evenstar
hyena

null line

112
macdougall
jackofhearts
nutella

I don’t understand why Dragomir is at the top of the list (and with Creature). Evenstar raised this earlier.

i mindmelded with dragomir that the timing and confidence of the creature townread was unnatural

creature is actually town for sure if im right on either of nutella/jack

nutella is probably where i'd go first if i could vote right now

dragomir is definitely town

the nature of his read flip on me back on page 8 or whatever was super towny

I don't wanna read the last 10 pages

my townread of dragomir is organic, confident, and probably correct

Obviously this isn’t a great take.

Benson dragomir creature is my towncircle

I have seen instances in which a cheeky mafioso names his entire team in just this fashion.

Phone reads list:

Town:
Creature: Spewed Town
Hyena: >90% Town
Dragomir: Asshole Town
Elephant: Verbose Town
Spiny Creature: Spiny Town

Townlean
Vanity
Radishes
Juliet
Michelle
Spirityo
Nutella

Null:
Pawn Lelouch: Pawn Lelouch
Nanook: Nanook

Scumlean:
112: Pocketing Scum
JackOfHearts: Cheese Scum
Lexi: Inactive Scum
TonyStarkPrime: Iron Scum
Benson: Fake and Scum
Rej: What are you doing srsly

Scum:
Iaafr: Incoherent Scum
Mac: Stressed Scum

If you're town

my reads are probably better than yours and better articulated even though they're pretty much not articulated at all

I still have no clue why you think I'm scum in the slightest

please push anything other than me because I hate getting pushed by stuff like this

Oof.

Evenstar, Dragomir, Epignosis, Benson

I could jive with this as a scum list despite towncircling 2 of these people.

consider this post official betrayal of my own towncircle and signal of intent to vote somewhere in here possibly

Which two are in your town circle?

dragomir and Benson but they both pinged me since I put them in there so I've been having doubts

my day 1 reads end up being every possible read in the game but I'll be right at some point

Okay then.

long cons town I think

what why?

I liked your post saying I pinged you. seemed natural. I think if scum wanted to push me you would've given at least one reason.

also scum tend to see my overall game as Towny and tend to tmi me town more than vaguely sus me

before that, I also mildly liked you saying we post too much. I think town say that more than scum by some amount relative to rand% or whatever.

Well, don't be so hasty, I'm putting together a post with some of the reasons.

it's too late I'm townreading you forever now get rekt

Should I finish doing that post, or are you going to concede and save me the trouble?

i mean im town so if you have any other scumreads your time is better spent there

also @benson i dont remember what pinged me about drago

something something activity patterns something something his aggression is a bit too pointed and gave me some scum vibes at times...? felt like he was pushing where i sussed...? idk man

for how not into this game i am i really should be posting less

I don’t know why iaafr says he suspected Dragomir, but that’s to be understood since iaafr didn’t know either.

maybe we should just lynch dragomir because i hate this post

Dragomir is getting a lot of townreads. I'd be stunned if this isn't TMI from somewhere.

Stunned? Does that make *this* TMI then?

Mafucka ninja'd me. Shit lol. Mindmeld buddies. I got the same idea. He sounds way too sure that there is TMI involved, so he must know that I'm town.

[VOTE: dragomir] aubergine

I wish iaafr had elaborated on what there was to hate about that post. Alas.

@Evenstar werent you scumreading dragomir at some point

what happened to that

I like the prodding here. iaafr is struck with a sudden urge to hang Dragomir and he invited Evenstar to the party, and did so in a way that could probe the latter. Neat.

i read you wrong d1 of wc1 too

anyway im over the nutella read

i read hyena's iso and i dont love it and there are a few scummy points

like trying to signal that he needs to interact more with mac before he can develop a read (recently played against a scum who insisted he needed more realtime interaction)
kinda high fluff interaction ratio and his pushes are a bit strange

so something like dragomir/hyena/112 now

still feel 112 is posturey after all and not actually that towny?

i mean theyre promising big so im waiting on the delivery

orrr maybe longcon

Player salad!

iaafr

creature
dragomir
michelle
sprityo
benson

evenstar
hyena

null line

112
macdougall
jackofhearts
nutella

why the fuck are both Creature and Dragomir so high here
Also not getting great vibes from benson
Nutella and Jack ought to be higher, too
overall, garbage readslist, making me feel worse about Iaafr

This is bad as hell. How can you use the fact that you disagree with the read list against iaafr? Ppl have different perspectives and won't always share your own. I despise the shade that you're throwing at iaafr here.

I super question how badly this list is off. Feels like they're not playing the same game as me. That means they're probably not the same alignment as me. QED.

I see, so you're mafia and iaafr is town? Cool.

in retrospect eva looks really towny in this exchange and dragomir looks scummy

imo

i will probably join a hyena wagon over other wagons if it develops

im going to stay on dragomir for now

also i have unaligned reads on dragomir/112 and tonystarkprime/112 so 112 is probably just town through that?

iaafr

epignosis
macdougall
benson
evenstar
spiny creature

jackofhearts
creature
sprityo
juliets

nutella
long con
vanity.

tonystarkprime
dragomir
hyena

vanity is low on the list because i remember like two bursts of really good activity but i need more and im suddenly paranoid a lot of its fabricated but this could just be dumb paranoia

The commentary and progression of thought present in this series of posts look good for iaafr.

yes the drago iso is funny. he is another potential scum I'm hesitant to wagon but probably top choice rn

Here, iaafr went farther than Jack calling Dragomir’s posts “funny” and called Dragomir his top choice.

let's just kill dragomir

Cool.

[VOTE: dragomir] aubergine

Good.

fuckit bros let's kill drago

Nice.

i actually do think epignosis is scum now and i keep mindmelding with 112

112 is locktwon forever

and i trust 112 m

[VOTE: epignosis] aubergine

the list, it bothers me too much

Spoiler: show

From the 5 posts of TL thay I’ve read he seemed townie.

I suspect this sort of thing happens to him a lot when he plays outside his home community but who am I to stop you from ignoring the obvious scum in order to kill sweet TL instead.

who's the obvious scum?

Drago and to a lesser extent Texas

yea drago feels hard to wagon

i said kill drago like 3 times yesterday and people dont follow me

but its easy to wagon michelle and TL

i normally dont use these kinds of reads but the contrast is really stark

back onto drago it is

[v]dragomir[/v]

[VOTE: dragomir] aubergine

False alarm, right?


I’m bored with this. Fast-forward to the end.

yea idk the dragomir wagon looks sketchier, so says my heart

anime super betrayal [VOTE: No Lynch] aubergine

Wet fart noises

++++

There are a few positives up in here for iaafr. Despite the strong claim that Dragomir was a civilian, iaafr peeled himself away from that, commenting on Dragomir’s exchange with Evenstar. I’d like to think iaafr keeping the light on Dragomir was instrumental in getting him lynched. I also don’t mind that iaafr didn’t let the thread stagnate as the deadline loomed (not that it needed his help to avoid stagnation, but it’s nice to see).

However, there are certainly some things he’s going to have to answer for. The lynch poll is the primary means by which civilians win. No one had any justifiable reason to abstain from the vote but boo. That stinks. I also invite others to look at iaafr’s apparent change in attitude regarding Dragomir, going from civilian to bad and ultimately not voting him at a critical juncture (two minutes until the end of the poll).

Good luck with that today.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

JackofHearts2005

Yeah Creature is town.

I hate this post.

Why? I can read Creature sometimes.

Sure but that read is too strong. It doesn't feel natural and genuine to me. You sound like you actually do know he's town.

I actually do know he’s town. Cause I can tell from his posts.

Nah.

Lol so vote me.

I don't vote on command.

The joke is you can’t vote me anyway cause it’s D0.

I can see this exchange happening with Jack of either alignment.

Question for all of you, do you guys believe this game would have some fake claims? I personally think yes. It's a big factor in why I suspect 112 as a matter of fact.

Yeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.

And it was like this where characters were assigned randomly?

The scumteams each followed a theme but the overall role assignment was random.

Iirc, roles were themey, not randomized.

I read the setup as like “cop” doesn’t necessarily apply to a town character who is good at catching baddies. A random town character is the cop.

Not like mashes where half the scumteam is good guys and half is bad guys cause the flavor is randomized.

The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character?

Maybe if they really like their character.

I spent all of UPick calling people mongrels.

This is mostly me playing devil’s advocate tho. I don’t have a firm read on 112.

Ditto this.

Eh, fuck it. Both Hyena and Dragomir are fairly low, so I'm willing to take out the creep first. Since while I'm pretty damn sure he's one of the people who have been roleplaying their roles like Mac, he's still gross about it.

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

Roleplaying what role? Me?

Oh god. Drago is the subconscious desire to sexually tilt at windmills. I should have known he was just role playing.

Okay.

@Dom

You should iso Drago. He was hitting on Eva and it turned out pretty funny.

#scumhunting

I realize this is a self-aware joke, but it does give Dom direction and the direction proved to be correct.

I asked this before but does anyone from this forum know if Drago has the propensity to slank like this as wolf?

Idk.

Drago is always town and Rej is always a wolf and Drago always catches him.

We’re in uncharted territory here.

How do you know that scenario isn't the case and Drago just hasn't seen enough to catch him yet?

I guess I don’t.

Kirby is probably the most memorable Drago town game without scum Rej. He was pretty quiet but basically won the game singlehandedly for the townies in lylo.

This doesn’t mean anything much to me.

++++

Aside from the Day 0 interaction, there isn’t really anything substantial to go on either way here. Jack voted 112, which is fine. Jack can remain a suspect, but he isn’t a strong one.

































juliets

And hi nova -

Do you have a crush on Nova?

A crush? No, why would you think that?

So far I've felt some negative juju vibrations from tsp, juliets and spiny. Can someone bombard them with aggressive accusations for me please?

I'd like to hear your specifics for what I've done that is suspicious. What juju vibrations?

Why are you so concerned with the suspicion?

You will see my explanation later on.

Juliet how are you? what do you think about the earlier scum reads towards you?

I'm good Michelle -

The last game I played here was the game where you and I were bad together with some others and we both lasted until the end and won. Remember how controversial that was? So the last look the syndicators had of me I was bad and some think they are seeing my bad game in this game. There isn't a lot of difference between my bad game and my good game so I can understand that. Also, people could be reaction testing, especially those that aren't giving a reason. I try to look at suspicion when I'm town as a guard against being night killed so I'm not completely bummed.

nice take. Jack gave me some fancy reads at MU after that game ^^
Do you have some reads?

I have a town read on Jack right now for reasons I explained last night (I will link it if you are not reading back).

I'm wary of nova because town nova posts a lot at the beginning of games, throwing out reads left and right and pushing others to do the same.

Mac so far reads as town Mac to me - putting some early reads out there and engaging with others.

I will do some ISO's today later because I know there are others I have opinions about they just aren't coming to mind right now.

Your Nova read would be fine, if it wasn't for the fact that scum Nova does the same thing. You were reading the Cats and Dogs game right? You should know that Nova throws reads left and right as scum too so his lack of activity here is NAI. It bothers me how you're actually trying to use it against him when you should know better.

Drago, I did not read Cats and Dogs. I read the last of it (maybe a page) when the game ended to see who won and congratulated different people based on what I saw in the end. So, I did not see nova throw reads left and right. If he did then you're right, it's NAI.

Dragomir’s initial interactions were needlessly hostile.

honestly, guys, i'm just going to role-play my character the whole game and hope that through magickal energies i can help us effect a good outcome

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Here's what JJJ said in the OP:

"Characters are randomized and have no connection to role abilities. You can even role play if you like."

So I read that as you can't tell from the character what the role abilities are.

This looks like a more reasonable exchange and a natural one for juliets.

I have hit the wall. I'll be more coherent in the morning but here are some thoughts running around in my head -

- I still lean town on Mac.
- I'm seeing a completely different Eva than the one I saw in WC1 though I only picked up starting mid day 2 in that game. I don't think one of she or Mac has to be scum in this game.
- I am leading town on Drago, I'm sure I can point out some reasons why but it will have to wait until tomorrow, though obviously I don't agree with his vote on Mac.
- Seems like one of 112 or Benson must be scum since they both say they accurately read each other and they both say the other is bad. I guess they could both be scum but I doubt it. Right now I have a clearer picture of 112 as town.
- Not understanding the votes for Epi except what hyena explained about his vote. Will look more closely at this in the morning.
- Reserving judgement on iaafr and hyena, I've been back and forth on both. Also reserving judgement on LC, he has fooled me SO many times but I know his weekends are usually taken up with family things and the food truck
- Reading sprityo as town after his last post.

I'm sure I will have other thoughts in the morning, there are just so many people to form opinions about.

Epi if you still need a favor just ping me in a post and I'll try to accommodate in the morning.

oh wow tons of linki - I'll have to read it tomorrow.

Okay.

I just went back and looked at Dragomir and though I saw him as town early in the game, he has as others have said completely disappeared. The last time he posted was yesterday morning. I'm also not wild about his vote sitting on Mac (same for LC but he has at least been around the last day).

@iaafr I know you have been pointing at Drago for while now, what else are you seeing about him that causes you to read him scum? Anyone else voting Drago please chime in.

Gonna put on my Elephant trunk for a sec and say I notice Juliets' vote is still on TSP even though she said she'd move it.

I will move to Drago to get it off of Tony but I'm still researching Drago and may need to move it again.

Like I said earlier, I usually find Drago as a pretty strong townread early on when he's town (even when I mislynched him I had been townreading him for the first few days) and I haven't gotten that feeling at all here so my gut says he's likely scum.

Thanks nutella, I missed when you said that.

oh I forgot

[VOTE: Dragonmir] aubergine

This progression looks clean to me.

++++

I am comfortable at this point calling juliets not a teammate of Dragomir.

Also, juliets has 112 posts.


















Lady LambaDelta

Nada.

Voted nutella.

Lady LambaDelta can remain a suspect.

Anyway Epi's posts are performative, not informative and they're designed to seep into the nature of people's want for content.

It's IIoA. They say many words, but not much in the end.

More than that, they're doing the Bullets for Bullets tactic I outlined in my scum guide. It feels like the goal of the posts is to be unreadably long and make you skim and say generally "agreeable" things people can't exactly contest without strictly committing anywhere.

I feel like I'm reading a foreign language- I'm not familiar with many of these abbreviations and terms.

Let me see if I can transliterate and address what's here.

Anyway Epi's posts are performative, not informative

Everything in Mafia is "performative." Even not showing up qualifies (in a "John Cage" sort of way). You are correct in calling them not "informative," as they were not meant to provide more information (a curious irony, that, since my posts are the only relic of the old world anybody has).

and they're designed to seep into the nature of people's want for content.

I didn't design them to seep into anything. That's a strange assumption on your part, and another curious irony, which leads me to my grievance with you. You have made nineteen of twenty-four posts in which you either post a cartoon or complain about circumstances.

Your biggest annoyance would be that you cannot access the old thread.

While it is not perfect, I have at least provided everyone here with a partial access of the previous thread, with additional commentary. At not one point did you attempt to make lemonade out of cat piss. Toys out of the pram.

It's IIoA.

I don't get the reference.

They say many words, but not much in the end.

No, they do not say many words (from me). They only say many words because they are quotes from the people who said them. My commentary is rather terse.

Rather than comment on how "much" I've said in the end, why not comment on whether my observations are sharp or obtuse, and why?

More than that, they're doing the Bullets for Bullets tactic I outlined in my scum guide.

I don't know what that means, but I assume is means mafia players make lists (or should make lists- I've not had the privilege of purchasing or reading your guide).

It feels like the goal of the posts is to be unreadably long

I suppose Dostoevsky wanted to make me skim when he penned The Brothers Karamazov. Hmm.

No, the goal of the posts is to provide a semi-comprehensive overview of how each person interacted a known mafioso.

That you would regard those posts as "unreadably long" when you chose to spend your time here among us complaining and posting pictures of cartoons is unfortunate. Really unfortunate: You were here in some capacity from 11:20 pm EST Wednesday night to 4:05 am EST Thursday morning. That's over four-and-a-half hours in which you could have read even some of my observations and discussed them or raised questions about them.

and make you skim and say generally "agreeable" things people can't exactly contest without strictly committing anywhere.

I am not really sure that it is within my power to "make [someone] skim." People read or they skim or they ignore. I have no power over that. I likewise have no power over what others say in response. Why can't they contest the things I've said? What is wrong with getting people to make decisions?

There is no civilian reason to discredit my effort without attempting to engage with it in some capacity. If you believe I am mafia, then you should be able to show how the content of my effort is compatible with that hypothesis rather than merely claim that the effort itself is compatible with your hypothesis. That latter claim means nothing.

I hope you will respond.

Although...

oh dear...

I fear I have made this "unreadably long."





























Long Con

Eh, fuck it. Both Hyena and Dragomir are fairly low, so I'm willing to take out the creep first. Since while I'm pretty damn sure he's one of the people who have been roleplaying their roles like Mac, he's still gross about it.

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

You should change your vote in the lynch poll as well.

Given that the poll is official, LC reminded Pawn to actually vote Dragomir in the poll, so that’s nice I guess.

Eh, fuck it. Both Hyena and Dragomir are fairly low, so I'm willing to take out the creep first. Since while I'm pretty damn sure he's one of the people who have been roleplaying their roles like Mac, he's still gross about it.

What makes you think Mac is roleplaying?

... wait, was it that one weird post way back, where Mac was strangely enthusiastic?

It was more of a series of posts from then but pretty much, yeah.

I think it could be hilarious if I started roleplaying mine. OR I could end up looking like Dragomir.

Do you think roleplaying is suspicious?

Not at all. When Dragomir is being a creep though when using what I believe roleplaying as an excuse, even as a bad joke, I don't see a reason to keep him around when he's already in my bottom 3 reads.

Fair.

LC prompted Pawn to expound on his suspicion of Dragomir, so that’s nice too.

Long Con
Benson
Creature
Dom
sprityo
Jackofhearts2005
Epignosis
Master Radishes
DFaraday
vanity.
juliets
Elephant
Hyena
112
Michelle
Quin
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
novaselinenever
Pawn Lelouch
Spiny Creature
Texas Cloverleaf
TonyStarkPrime
Trustworthy Liberal
Rej
nutella
Evenstar
Dragomir
Lady Lambdadelta
iaafr
MacDougall

More niceness.

Hey folks, less than ten minutes to go. I'm not going to be able to catch up the last bunch of pages in that time. Dragomir lynch incoming, not anything too surprising given the negative publicity he garnered with Eva.

I'll help make it more interesting with a 112 vote. [VOTE: 112] aubergine

I feel more comfortable on Drago than 112.

[VOTE: Drago] aubergine

LC, what was your thought progression here? What made you more comfortable voting Dragomir over 112 in the end? Good luck answering me.

++++

There are avenues for Long Con to be Dragomir’s teammate, but they are full of potholes and crackheads asking for five dollars. I don't want to go down that road.


























MacDougall

Also, I think Evenstar and Mac are scum and that they are distancing from each other. :3

Hoho, I'd like to see an elaboration on this.

Because neither one of them are serious trying to solve me right now, nor are they allowing me to solve them. I feel like Mac in particular doesn't want to interact with me at all. He's SCAAAAARED~! Even though she denied it earlier, Evenstar tried to pocket me earlier.

What have you said that I was meant to interact with? I have hardly noticed you. Forgive me please.

I wish I was scum with her. I wouldn't be this frustrated.

Dragomir’s smug comment here is a small point in Mac’s favor.

Dragomir is getting a lot of townreads. I'd be stunned if this isn't TMI from somewhere.

++++

This is where I fell short. I tabled the MacDougall analysis expecting to come back and see just how many people at this point were calling Dragomir a civilian, because at that point I couldn't recall many. It looked like a way to validate the notion that Dragomir was a civilian whilst casting suspicion on those calling him good, which of course would be an evil strategy.

Unfortunately, by the time I remembered to go back, the threads had vanished, and this is the one analysis I did not complete.

Anyway, MacDougall voted for me, left his vote on me, and so he can go eat a bag of delicious iced caramel kremes.


Master Radishes

I changed my mind and did play some catch-up. Only quick skimming, though.

Random skim reads:

Nutella townish. Not sure I agree with reasons stated above ^ for SRing her.

iiafr townish. In fact, aside from disagreeing with half his reads, I'm ready to follow him to the ends of the subconscious and beyond.

Creature townish.

Hyena townish.

Dragomir creepish.

Eva placid. Uncertain how to read that. Leaning townish.

112 nullish. Conclusion: lynch them.

Elephant small. Beluga whales bigger. Scum.


Okay I'm done now. Disclosure: I made a bunch of these up on the spot.

is here a second non read on Dragomir again not alignament indicative. TSP gave a weird for Drago in post 474 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 9#p558159
Are you and TSP mindmelting?

I just don't think there's much to read from Drago yet. Has he done anything except hit on Eva?

I probably saw TSP's comment when skimming and it stuck in my mind, hence my inclusion in my post above.

Eh.

Someone give me a new convo to join in on.

What are your opinions on Drago, 112 and Iaafr?

Thank you.

Drago - haven't paid much attention to, to be honest; have no reason to either SR or TR them so far from what I have noticed
112 - I've played with 112 about 100 times (literally) so I've seen it all from them; my intial lean is town, but I'll need to see how they progress into future rounds to be certain
iiafr - as mentioned to someone else earlier, he feels so similar to who I interacted with in spec chat that I feel that is his default setting, and therefore more likely to be town. I've not played with him before so don't know his scum game, but even his sudden read changes just feel right based on non-game-related 'meta' as it were

Follow-up to my last response to Eva:

I've not followed 112-gate because I was distracted by Elephant, but my sense of it is very much that it's NAI for 112, and like I say I didn't really pay attention to Drago

It isn’t the best thing that Radishes keeps hammering home that he has not paid attention to Dragomir.

Welp, [VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine then. Not sold on a 112 lynch.

Beyond the reason supplied here, I have no idea why Radishes voted Dragomir.

++++

Master Radishes can remain a suspect.

Game isn't until 8:08, so I have ten minutes.

Epignosis
Voted many hours before EoD – only reason I could see was in a later readslist: “Eh. Would lynch. (Great start, right?)”
Was around at EoD and barely engaged with the Drago/112 wagons – didn’t even vote Drago to self-preserve when he was briefly the counter-wagon to Drago

Conclusion: Suspicious

As far as I remember, my vote went there for no real reason at all. Reasons developed later. One big one for me was that 112 voted for me based on something he said- not something I said- and framed it as though it made me guilty. That's trash. That's trying to keep his hands clean voting for someone nobody was really talking about. Don't believe me? 112 ended up on Trustworthy Liberal- someone nobody was really talking about.

Bear in mind that if I'm bad, I am not letting my godfather get lynched Day 1. I know that might not mean anything to you since you do not know me, but when I am on a mafia team, I try to make optimal, coordinated decisions and not drop the ball. Letting your godfather get lynched Day 1 is arguably the most sub-optimal thing you can do.

If 112 is Dragomir's teammate, it makes all the sense in the world to let himself (112) get lynched. That would preserve the godfather. 112 didn't have the thread presence to push anybody else, couldn't vote for himself (and maintain any credibility), and if he voted for Dragomir late, he would be surrendering his godfather with less hope that he could be spared. I wonder if 112's hands were tied.

Thank you for the response, and I'm fine with your reasoning for voting 112. And obviously I agree with the rationale around preventing a Godfather lynch - hence why I'm so concerned about the last minute votes for 112 that smell like an attempt to save Drago. (Evenstar and Nova, that is.)

Re: third paragraph - I don't recall 112 being around at EoD, and their own wagon sprung up relatively quickly towards the end (it was floating around 2-3 votes, iirc, but only became a serious counter-wagon in the final, eh, 20-30 minutes or so). So I don't think there's much we can read into someone simply not being present.

Actually, first I'll quickly make my position clear:

A) It is ridiculous to suggest scum weren't on the 112 wagon, regardless of 112's alignment. If anyone was actually here and watching in real time (I was keeping up, but was only half-focused because of real life matters) then at 7 mins to go the wagons were 8-5 (Drago-112) and by 3 mins to go they were 8-8. It was literally only the last minute that Drago was decidedly lynched.

B) 112's alignment obviously affects matters, but I simply hadn't enough time to cover both town!112 and scum!112 worlds before D2 ended. I tackled town!112 first, because the last minute fluctuations felt, to me, that scum tried to save Drago but didn't have enough of them present to do it.

C) From a town!112 worldview, the votes I pointed out (Nova and Eva) looked most obviously like scum trying to save Drago. A few others (TSP, Epi, Jack) for various reasons might be seen as scummy, might not be. Creature and Elephant were NAI.

C.1) I had Evenstar as likely V yesterday, but based on her vote I began to look at her under a red light. Her play this round has reinforced my view, as I feel she's not actually focused on gamesolving and is instead tossing questions to her familiars (Nook, Pawn, sorta LLD) with a touch of chaosposting.

C.2) I had Epi as null+ yesterday, and didn't initially mind his SoD reads. But his analysis of Evenstar was lacking, IMO, as he cleared her for things that she should not be cleared for. Seeing as he was one of my 'potential scum votes' I pushed a bit there, and when he responded to me I liked his responses well enough. But a potential association has been established in my scum!Eva worldview. And I don't accept clearing him for 'hard work', as I seem to recall someone in the D1 thread pointing out Epi does that as either alignment.

C.3) Jack I went from scumread to townread and then to null in D1. I had no plans to push there but his recent attempt to discredit everything I've said here has created an association within my worldview as well.

C.4) Nova was, I thought, actually the scummiest vote, but so far the other three have all hinted at a scumread of him, I think? So IMO he's either the scum I'm looking for or the odd one out.


Took too much time on that. Definitely need to get to work now.

Michelle

Morning everyone, can't say i'll gladly catch up, can someone tell me if is worth reading all the last 7 pages?

Yes.

-_- mmkay
@ me if needed

This exists.

Morning everyone, can't say i'll gladly catch up, can someone tell me if is worth reading all the last 7 pages?

Ah Michelle ma belle blah blah blah French stuff

To be honest no but it also can’t hurt?
Summary:
Juliets: bad
Nutella: good
Drago: weird
Jack: good for now
Nova: scary after cats and dogs
elephant: elephant
Mac: very positive
Creature: creature
iaiaafrair: my new favorite

pocketed by that song like always. my brain is in page 3 btw

Saw Vanity's entrance with no force one step forward one step back he may go either way.

If Creature is just Creature he can be just villager.
Drago was so weird in the previous game that this isnt AI (alignament indicative)
Nova -_-

This doesn’t really say anything. I don’t know why this post exists.

I changed my mind and did play some catch-up. Only quick skimming, though.

Random skim reads:

Nutella townish. Not sure I agree with reasons stated above ^ for SRing her.

iiafr townish. In fact, aside from disagreeing with half his reads, I'm ready to follow him to the ends of the subconscious and beyond.

Creature townish.

Hyena townish.

Dragomir creepish.

Eva placid. Uncertain how to read that. Leaning townish.

112 nullish. Conclusion: lynch them.

Elephant small. Beluga whales bigger. Scum.


Okay I'm done now. Disclosure: I made a bunch of these up on the spot.

is here a second non read on Dragomir again not alignament indicative. TSP gave a weird for Drago in post 474 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 9#p558159
Are you and TSP mindmelting?

This is perhaps hypocritical, but I like that Michelle is raising the issue re: Dragomir and people not taking a stance.

fuckit bros let's kill drago

Let's go.

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

can you show me where did you suspect Drago previously to see why are you voting him?

So I just woke up and I have to ask before I make any proper posts. In what world am I considered part of LLD's clique when I explicitly turned down the invitation back in champs?

good night!

What time is it at you?

Little past midnight. Took an accidental impromptu nap.

good night!

Don't forget to share your impression about Drago though when you cone back.

I also like that Michelle didn’t let the question go unanswered.

++++

Michelle voted Hyena. There’s a couple of minor things in Michelle’s favor, sure, but not enough to rule her out. Michelle can remain a suspect.









NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

There’s no context for this vote, so I can’t do anything with it.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME why the fuck is your vote still on me. I don't believe you have any reads of your own since you sheeped that for no reason and don't seem to have taken any stances since. Do you actually suspect me or do you just have zero original thpughts

I think you’re town but a bet is a bet

Garbage reason to vote someone. Anti-town. Screw the bet it's dumb and LLD doesn't deserve that kind of positive feedback rn.

I mean

If you wanna make the same bet on someone I’m game

I just want sheeple to follow my wisdom when I start paying attention

No, I don't. This bet thing is anti-town. Don't do it.

Are you gonna vote drago or Texas with me?

This shows a willingness to vote someone else instead of Dragomir.

From the 5 posts of TL thay I’ve read he seemed townie.

I suspect this sort of thing happens to him a lot when he plays outside his home community but who am I to stop you from ignoring the obvious scum in order to kill sweet TL instead.

who's the obvious scum?

Drago and to a lesser extent Texas

yea drago feels hard to wagon

i said kill drago like 3 times yesterday and people dont follow me

but its easy to wagon michelle and TL

i normally dont use these kinds of reads but the contrast is really stark

back onto drago it is

[v]dragomir[/v]

It’s too bad we weren’t on at the same time maybe if we’d harmonized people would’ve listened

I think if we try hard enough we can make this a 6 way tie.

Who would you suggest for falling within that group?

No low posters. (e.g. Rej, Nova, DFar, etc.) I want to see people voting on people who have been active.

Note for future: if hyena is scum, very likely a partner in the low posters.

Frankly like 1/5 of the game is low posters. And with a game this size there is almost a guarantee that one of them is.

I'd almost bet two low posters are with a scum Hyena. My only hesitation there is that he could be purposefully baiting for this as scum.

Idk if he’s scum or not but yeah if he is I’d say partners in the low posters.

But let’s focus on getting drago dead first.

Alrighty guys I have to focus on work now.

Thank you so much for pushing drago with me, please finish the push and bring it home, I believe in you, etc. etc.

Even after reading all of this, I don’t have any idea why Nanook voted Dragomir.

Wait I’m getting my way? Yippee!

There’s enthusiasm, but it looks like false enthusiasm.

++++

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME’s posts are teammate compatible. There’s an early vote followed by reasonless pushes for Dragomir’s lynch. That doesn’t mean NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME has to be Dragomir’s teammate, but as far as I’m concerned, he can remain a suspect and warrants further scrutiny.












































novaselinenever

Drago is Town here no?

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

++++

I’ll let nova’s posts speak for themselves. nova can remain a suspect.

































nutella

Lmao drago stop being creepy she's lesbian. Also aren't you like under 18 :\

First interaction. Okay.

I don't really see the point in making character claiming legal when your character isn't alignment indicative. So I do believe in good characters being town, bad characters being scum. And with that being said, safe claims are probably a thing this game. This is technically a tinfoil but it's very logical in my eyes.

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the rules. It's all pretty clear in the first post. Alignment has nothing to do with character. Claiming is illegal, only character claiming is ok because it has no bearing on role. So of course there can't be fake claims because that contradicts all of that. How are you not getting this

Second interaction. Me likey.

Dragomir is getting a lot of townreads. I'd be stunned if this isn't TMI from somewhere.

or he's just bad and people have shit reads


...or is it you who has tmi

Evenstar, Dragomir, Epignosis, Benson

nah, maybe, absolutely not, sure

I’m not really sure why there’s more confidence behind Benson than Dragomir here.

maybe we should just lynch dragomir because i hate this post

Dragomir is getting a lot of townreads. I'd be stunned if this isn't TMI from somewhere.

Stunned? Does that make *this* TMI then?

Mafucka ninja'd me. Shit lol. Mindmeld buddies. I got the same idea. He sounds way too sure that there is TMI involved, so he must know that I'm town.

Nah dude he made another post before that that basically said the same thing benson did and he just didn't see it. This is a legit reaction imo.

Drago calls people on tonal stuff, but his is possibly the worst in the game. Is this an instance of someone accusing others of what they think they themselves are guilty of?

I'd have to reread him to assess this possibility. I do have concerns about him because usually when he's town I townread him very strongly from early on and I'm not getting that here (disclaimer, I incorrectly tunneled and mislynched him last game, but only after having that strong townread of him for a few days until circumstances led me to case him).

He may only have the second worst tone in the game though after Rej. But Rej's gonna Rej.

This looks like a genuine thought process.

Fine ok we can drop it. But like, what is your feeling on drago's alignment and how strong and why

Dragomir is getting a lot of townreads. I'd be stunned if this isn't TMI from somewhere.

or he's just bad and people have shit reads


...or is it you who has tmi

I feel like I am living in crazytown. I'm getting so much heat and it doesn't feel legit.

This smells like scum jumping on village led suspicion to me. Who started this anti Mac rhetoric? Who has looked like they're taking advantage of wounded Mac?

These were two posts that directly reacted to the TMI garbage at the time. Do they not satisfy the criteria?

Ehh again they were reactions to it without addressing the premise. Again I'm more concerned about your confidence in drago being town.

Rather than chase Mac’s dick (see the context) and carry on this conversation, Nutella demanded MacDougall’s opinion on Dragomir. That’s good.

Aight let's try this. So many names

Epignosis
Hyena
Creature

112
Benson
iaafr
MacDougall

Master Radishes
Michelle
vanity.

Evenstar
Jackofhearts2005
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

DFaraday
Dom
Quin
sprityo
Texas Cloverleaf

Elephant
Lady Lambdadelta
Long Con
novaselinenever
Pawn Lelouch
Spiny Creature
Trustworthy Liberal
TonyStarkPrime

Dragomir
juliets
Rej

......This was hard. Much of this subject to change.

[VOTE: rej] aubergine

Cool.

I would be okay with a Drago or Rej lynch or whatever but I am feeling radish as the galaxy brain option. However to echo something iaafr said about someone else, if he ends up being town it would be a mislynch I'd regret. So I want some input.

I don’t mind this post.

TL and to some extent Drago feel like the too-easy options for D1. Though Drago has also kinda disappeared. See if some pressure brings him in.[VOTE: drago] aubergine

Prob not staying on either of these guys. I don't want to end in a lame small brained mislynch. I wanna catch the big fishes

who are your big fish candidates

Pawn, LLD, maybe juliets or elephant

Maybe nutella gave herself an out from voting Dragomir, but let’s be honest- nobody at this time was willing to lynch any of these people.

Like I said earlier, I usually find Drago as a pretty strong townread early on when he's town (even when I mislynched him I had been townreading him for the first few days) and I haven't gotten that feeling at all here so my gut says he's likely scum.

I believe this.

Drago is Town here no?

No?

++++

I saw nutella as a civilian throughout Day 1, and I don’t see anything here that changes my mind.






Pawn LeLouch

Man, so many town reads being handed out like candy over here, there's gotta be some TMI underneath them.

Oh totes. The question is who is truthful and who is TMIing. Considering like half of the players have posted at least some reads by now. And that is something that will take a bit to figure out frankly due to needing more data points and associatives to work with. So it can be a concern but not one that should be at the forefront of your mind until at least D1 starts.

Okay.

Here’s a roughly ordered list from where I’m at now. Will try and write out comments for each person if I can later on but that might need to wait a bit due to school. So here's who I got before I needed to post.

Confirmed Town
Pawn Lelouch

Town
Creature

Town Lean
Master Radishes Love his interaction about Creature’s reaction and hard agree on hating the Sprityo post.
Iaafr
Epignosis
Vanity. His Nook insight is a towny type of insight and I have had that exact view on Michelle before in other games and have had it here already. It just feels like a genuine thought process.
Texas Cloverleaf

Null (+/neutral/-)
Evenstar (+)
MacDougall (+)
Nutella (+)
Spiny Creature(+) Note I am fully admitting to bias here due to the Hyena interactions but I just love her there, and while the content amount is low due to time, the actual content is good imo.

Benson (neutral)
112 (neutral)
Michelle (neutral) I fully admit I just have trouble reading her.
Juliets (Neutral) This is a weird one for me. Since she doesn’t actually have much content that is actually strong. Like she has it, but it all feels fairly shallow. However, I think her reaction to being stilted is real and as someone who is somewhat similar to that I can’t really endorse scum reads based on that due to not finding them accurate, and yes that does seem to be a fair bit of why people are scum reading her. So two conflicting views null out.
Jackofhearts2005 (neutral) Has the Creature read going for him but otherwise everything else is honestly very meh. It exists but that’s about it.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (neutral) There’s a passiveness and wishy washiness that I don’t really associate with town Nook but Vanity raised a really good point regarding him acting like a town who has been burned before which I can see. Two conflicting views null this out essentially.

Trustworthy Liberal (-)
Elephant (-)
Long Con (-)
TonyStarkPrime (-) So TSP has only a few things going on with him. The minor spat with Spiny, the one with me, and the relatively singleminded Juliets push. Spiny is a punctuation read that I find laughable on principle and am ignoring, the one on me I honestly didn't mind outside of his weird last sentence flip where he basically swapped to scum reading me at the end of the paragraph after leading up with town, since that was a strange look. Currently have this as a null - and their current position is currently tied directly to the opposite end as Juliets.

Scum Lean
Sprityo Mostly pure shitpost and the actual content post he put out was basically semi-incoherent when I looked through the ISO. Post #1413 exactly, is enough to drag him to scum lean,
Dragomir

Scum
Hyena
-----------------------
Basically Don’t Exist yet and thus auto null (-) until more content.

DFaraday
Dom
Lady Lambdadelta
novaselinenever
Quin
Rej

Eh, fuck it. Both Hyena and Dragomir are fairly low, so I'm willing to take out the creep first. Since while I'm pretty damn sure he's one of the people who have been roleplaying their roles like Mac, he's still gross about it.

What makes you think Mac is roleplaying?

... wait, was it that one weird post way back, where Mac was strangely enthusiastic?

It was more of a series of posts from then but pretty much, yeah.

I think it could be hilarious if I started roleplaying mine. OR I could end up looking like Dragomir.

Do you think roleplaying is suspicious?

Not at all. When Dragomir is being a creep though when using what I believe roleplaying as an excuse, even as a bad joke, I don't see a reason to keep him around when he's already in my bottom 3 reads.

This is an early vote against Dragomir. The reasoning behind it isn’t strong, but it’s solid for a Day 1. I’m not really sure why Dragomir was “already in [your] bottom 3” prior to the creepiness, so perhaps you could elaborate on that Pawn.

hey pawn whatup

which reads of yours should I sheep rn

Drago or TSP are probs my top two scum rn. MR, Creature, Vanity town. Also feeling pretty good about Epi and Texas rn.

Okay.

fuckit bros let's kill drago

Let's go.

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

There’s a measure of enthusiasm here, as Pawn voted Dragomir a second time.

And thus the triad is broken and I can freely place my vote. Out of TL, Michelle, and Drago, Drago is by far the scummiest imo.

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

Third time’s a charm…

fuck is Day over

You have 12 minutes. Epi and Drago are main 2 wagons.

Like hell.

Off of vote numbers yeah you two are. Unless 112 has made a big enough resurgence to make it a 3 way competition.

> 112 5 votes

So they have then. 112 + Drago are the main two then.

This might not mean much at first glance, but at the time, I was certainly not a main candidate to be lynched, and I said as much. Why this is significant is that it means Pawn was unconcerned with keeping an eye on the poll in order to manipulate where the votes fell during crunch time.

++++

If I squint hard I could see a Dragomir teammate, but that last point resonates with me.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

Quin

gth reads based on mac's exercise:

Benson: I've only known Benson for a day and a half, but if anything ever happened to him I would kill everyone in this game and then myself. Similar to TSP in having things to say about just about everything, but there's dedication to these posts TSP doesn't have. Town.

Dragomir: Early juliets callout set off alarm bells. Didn't really sound like a test even though that's how he played it. There's fluff, but his meaty posts are targeted in just about every direction which isn't a bad thing. Kinda don't think he'd go so overboard with that Evenstar stuff is he was bad (to stay out of the spotlight if anything) Town.

Lady L (thank you umineko references): The 4 person shtick is...confusing? I won't linger on it. I do hope there's not actually 4 people behind the role though. Somewhat insightful up until the nutella vote which isn't explained until later on. Though she is proactive in getting the lynch going (good), Lady has her heels in the ground when talking about it with other people which sucks a bit. Town.

Rej: The Michelle callout is a good look (questioning those who blindly accept townreads). It's a good point against her, though if I can make time I'd give her a read too before I make any judgments. Not a whole lot to work with otherwise. Town.

TSP: Fluff. If scum, probably buddying the elephant. He's got a lot of posts yet so many of them seem to be tiptoeing around the events of the thread without dedicating himself to anything. Scum.

Quin has four posts and one of them is this.

++++

Voted Evenstar.

Quin can remain a suspect.









Rej

Nada.

Did not vote.

Rej can remain a suspect.







































SpinyCreature / boo

ok if i'm gonna start posting from the point I'm caught up at, these were my ~vibes~

anyway Eva is town. and not JUST because her savagery in response to Drago's flirting attempts was the most beautiful effortless thing she's ever done. (more because of her responses to iaafr and 112). Her read that Drago continuing that flirting so long was trying to force conversation, thus scummy, was not one that would've occurred to me, but ig she could be right there.

This looks genuine.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I see 3 votes on Epi. Anybody wanna enlighten me on the case against him?

dumbread: "anybody wanna enlighten me on the case" feels like forced tryhard wording. trying hard to sound clever and not all that bluntly invested in Epi wagon. /dumbread

idk I don't like it. Will watch out to see if that's just how Drago talks.

I dig this.

++++

boo voted no lynch, and I cannot fault him for that.

Due to the above, I think boo is not mafia. And even still, I wouldn’t be lynching him Day 2 anyway. What’s new, boo? Not that you can answer that.










sprityo

I'm kidding.

Hi kidding, I’m sprityo

Eh.

I went to sleep last night with my girl being the leading wagon, now it's Elephant and Hyena. What happened?

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

Eh Part II.

++++

Voted Evenstar.

sprityo can remain a suspect.
















TexasCloverleaf

Nada.

Voted Evenstar.

TexasCloverleaf can remain a suspect.







































TonyStarkPrime

Aw, what a shame.

Oh shit, I just realized that you're a girl. We can hit the bed anytime then

Does that line generally work for you?

Everything works for me baby girl. Everything.

Cool. Where would you like to be branded?

Wait hold on, what branding are you talking about?

yours

Not sure I get the joke.

Wow what a great game so far. You guys are a great group of players and I'm like just stoked to be here!

Where the hell did this overjoyous Mac come from?

Apparently Mac had enough of creature doing what I like to call “the day zero creature”

Okay.

Morning everyone, can't say i'll gladly catch up, can someone tell me if is worth reading all the last 7 pages?

Ah Michelle ma belle blah blah blah French stuff

To be honest no but it also can’t hurt?
Summary:
Juliets: bad
Nutella: good
Drago: weird
Jack: good for now
Nova: scary after cats and dogs
elephant: elephant
Mac: very positive
Creature: creature
iaiaafrair: my new favorite

Spoiler: show

Question for all of you, do you guys believe this game would have some fake claims? I personally think yes. It's a big factor in why I suspect 112 as a matter of fact.

I mean I only my role and the sample role but from those super no

Huh?

iaafr

creature
dragomir
michelle
sprityo
benson

evenstar
hyena

null line

112
macdougall
jackofhearts
nutella

why the fuck are both Creature and Dragomir so high here
Also not getting great vibes from benson
Nutella and Jack ought to be higher, too
overall, garbage readslist, making me feel worse about Iaafr

This is bad as hell. How can you use the fact that you disagree with the read list against iaafr? Ppl have different perspectives and won't always share your own. I despise the shade that you're throwing at iaafr here.

I super question how badly this list is off. Feels like they're not playing the same game as me. That means they're probably not the same alignment as me. QED.

Fair I guess but it’s also see Drago’s point. Iaafr threw out a rainbow with maybe half a dozen controversial reads. I think it’s town because of this shift on Mac and 112, plinko theory suggests that scum doesn’t make such significant shifts like that without a clearer game plan

This seems to present more commentary regarding iaafr rather than Dragomir. Eh.

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Here's what JJJ said in the OP:

"Characters are randomized and have no connection to role abilities. You can even role play if you like."

So I read that as you can't tell from the character what the role abilities are.

I'm not talking about role abilities, I'm talking about alignments.

Here’s how I see it

A game was designed with blank power roles associated with alignment
Then 29 characters were completely randomly matched to roles

Drago Yes but my character is also like I’m not sure if it would be good or bad anyways it isn’t like that

My suspicion on 112 is not based on him character claiming.

What is it based on then?

Read the last page and you'll find out.

I did. Why'd your read evaporate as soon as you got confirmation that flavor isn't alignment-indicative?

Then it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.

Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.

No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.

Pressing Dragomir to do civilian work instead of worrying about mechanics would have moved the needle in TSP’s favor. Instead, TSP renders an opinion about roles. Eh.

Then it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.

Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.

No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.

Why's Drago assuming 112 knew this before him?

Knew what?

that roles were completely NAI

I mean maybe Drago is assuming 112 read the rules

Then it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.

Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.

No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.

I hate the phrasing of this. All that shade at my case on 112.

Disregard the phrasing: Do I understand your case correctly?
Regard the phrasing: I think it’s a good case with your premises so what do you have a problem with?

Yes.
Because you're pretty much saying that I was being manipulative and trying to diminish something that could happen in the future, which isn't the case.

No I think it’s fine reasoning and fwiw you might be right I just don’t think it’s a thing that could happen given my understanding of the nature of this game.

There appears to be a misunderstanding between Dragomir (who shows outrage) and TSP (who remains calm). If this is a teammate interaction, it is laced with intricate nuance.

And Drago what’s up with you? Three particular anti aligned pairs, groups that aren’t w/w.

This is the last question of a series of questions posed to various people.

112 - lean scum, not getting much of a feel on posts either way but follows scum patterns
Benson - null
Creature - ehhhhh
DFaraday - well he commented once on something I said so therefore Town
Dom - null but GTH town
Dragomir - lean scum but on activity not posts independently
Elephant - town
Epignosis - probably town, -EV Lynch otherwise
Evenstar - null. Come at me.
Hyena - lean town, I like the style of their posts
iaafr - Town solely off the “most towny” activity. Establishing a towncore early is a huge detriment to scum who would want to actively work against that goal.
Jackofhearts2005 - null
juliets - no reason not to be scum but again I’m still feeling Girl Genius so just be aware of my biases
Lady Lambdadelta - null but lean scum because they confuse me and that’s bad
Long Con - lean town, I like his posts
MacDougall - lean scum a little bit
Master Radishes - always gives me bad vibes but it could just be cause I don’t like radishes
Michelle - null
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - null but in a good way
novaselinenever - can be scum for all I care
nutella - probably town
Pawn Lelouch - no reason to townread here and I’m not trusting Eva. Scum.
Quin - null
Rej - scum but not a lot of content to get to that
Spiny Creature - Town
sprityo - lean town
Texas Cloverleaf - null
TonyStarkPrime
Trustworthy Liberal - null
vanity. - lean scum, I’m not getting any of the genuine defenses that others have put out


someone GTH me on two of my null reads and I’ll probably get back to you

TSP called Dragomir bad, but with a qualification.

I’m here. This game isn’t running at a speed where I can catch up from my last post. I’d vote for 112 over Drago unless someone @s me and explains why

Given my present take on 112, I don’t object to this.

++++

There is a mixed bag here. Some interactions warrant a raised eyebrow, but the biggest evidence in TSP’s favor is the little spat with Dragomir. It doesn’t look staged, so that’s nice.

Trustworthy Liberal

Okay lets think might vote for Dragomir but will ISO first now that am home on not using a phone no offense but this site is really hard to use on mobile.

While I can appreciate the timing and existence of this, it seems backwards. Normally one reads something and then decides to place a vote. The consideration to place a vote on Dragomir preceded the investigation, which is unusual.

@Trustworthy Liberal
You should place a vote. :P

That goes for @DFaraday , @novaselinenever , and @Rej, too, even though they haven't been active.

Hyena if you remember i am very reluctent to vote every since it got me killed in my first forum game thats why am ready the Dragomir person first

I’m not quite sure I understand this, but okay.

Okay just finshed Dragomir's ISO don't see multy quotes so heres my thoughts on him

-Seemed to go alittle far with evenstar (not alignment indicative)
-Made a case on 112 based off characters claims saying that a town wouldn't play that way but the case became empty due to random characters
-Not a lot of depth short anwsers threw shade on Mac leaving his vote there before leaving
-hasn't posted in thread since early yesterday morning (my time atleast)

Don't think this is enough to call him 100% scum but i don't think he has been pushing a town presence would love if he could come back and post a little. I know this is ironic coming from me but atleast am here now.


Conclusion
----------------
Scum lean on him based off what he did push when he was fairly active so willing to lynch this today, him missing for a long period doesn't make him look any better either.

(someone tell me the command for voting i didn't see it when i looked sorry for being a bother)

Here is the investigation, and the vote followed two minutes later.

++++

Given that TL was evidently up five votes with less than two hours to go means that, if TL is a teammate of Dragomir (arguably the most powerful mafia member on the squad), TL would be looking to either receive votes and try to keep Dragomir around longer or generate a lynch elsewhere. Neither of these things happened. I know not everyone plays things out optimally (optimally would not even be an option given Dragomir’s absence), but these posts give me a slightly favorable impression of TL.
































vanity.

strongest v's after reading are nutella, epignosis, and evenstar.

sprityo, jack, elephant, iaafr, and creature are all probably v's. some of those don't feel great but that's how i felt while reading.

nanook and master radishes are the trailing edge of my town circle. dragomir is sorta towny too but i didn't really get that one quickly at all.

the townreads on michelle make absolutely no sense to me. they group of people townreading her might contain wolves purely because i think michelle hasn't really projected town or shown me massive differences to the limited amount of wolfgames i read from her.

juliets' posts just feel incredibly stiff to me. i don't know how to explain it, it just doesn't feel like any of the questions and observations she's making are real.

pawn's impact on the game feels super underwhelming at the moment.

This statement exists.

guess i can entertain your ideas mac, not doing color coding tho

dark green:
hyena
creature
nutella
jack
mr
iaafr

light green:
sprityo
mac
epig
lld
spiny
benson

yellow:
nanook
texas
evenstar
pawn
elephant
rej
long con
drago
dom

orange:
dfaraday
tonystarkprime
juliets
112
quin
michelle
tlib

red:
nova

vanity, what was the progression that led from “sorta towny” to yellow?

i could kill drago here i think

If forced to choose, I’d say this looks spontaneous and natural rather than forced.

Drago is Town here no?

i do not understand any of your posts

be villagery

Hi! Nice to meet you.

hi, nice to meet you too.

how's your day?

quick sell on tsp over drago pls

i dunno lol

i just want competitive wagons

vanity. did not engage nova on his assertion that Dragomir is good. Rather, vanity. pressed nova. That looks to be in the former’s favor.

[VOTE: drago] aubergine

don't want epi lynched

Do you think someone else would've hopped on the Epi wagon? We would've needed two more people to take the lead over Drago.

idk

i just think epi is likely a v

This likewise is favorable.

++++

The evidence isn’t overwhelmingly strong, but it is sufficiently encouraging. I do not plan on pursuing a vanity. lynch today. Not that I could if I wanted to.

[Epignosis]

If you are a civilian and it is your ultimate decision to cast a vote against me, all I ask is that you hedge on that vote by copying and pasting my Dragomir analysis from Day 1. I haven't updated it to reflect anything here or from Day 2, but please let everyone know my views if you choose to send in my name.

[iaafr]

hey epi

is any of that work stuff you couldnt replicate as scum?

should i consider the fact that you did all that work and it sounds good AI?

[Epignosis]

hey epi

is any of that work stuff you couldnt replicate as scum?

should i consider the fact that you did all that work and it sounds good AI?

I most certainly could replicate it.

You can consider that if you wish. Is that what you think?

[iaafr]

not sure what i think.

[Evenstar]

If you are a civilian and it is your ultimate decision to cast a vote against me, all I ask is that you hedge on that vote by copying and pasting my Dragomir analysis from Day 1. I haven't updated it to reflect anything here or from Day 2, but please let everyone know my views if you choose to send in my name.

I didn't like this emotional appeal yesterday and I like it even less on a repeat viewing. I understand the desire to have an impact on the game, but this still feels like you're trying to yell "look at me, I'm so town".

[iaafr]

well

look forward to seeing what happens next

hoping for the best but expecting the worst, as they say

[Epignosis]

If you are a civilian and it is your ultimate decision to cast a vote against me, all I ask is that you hedge on that vote by copying and pasting my Dragomir analysis from Day 1. I haven't updated it to reflect anything here or from Day 2, but please let everyone know my views if you choose to send in my name.

I didn't like this emotional appeal yesterday and I like it even less on a repeat viewing. I understand the desire to have an impact on the game, but this still feels like you're trying to yell "look at me, I'm so town".

[Evenstar]

If you are a civilian and it is your ultimate decision to cast a vote against me, all I ask is that you hedge on that vote by copying and pasting my Dragomir analysis from Day 1. I haven't updated it to reflect anything here or from Day 2, but please let everyone know my views if you choose to send in my name.

I didn't like this emotional appeal yesterday and I like it even less on a repeat viewing. I understand the desire to have an impact on the game, but this still feels like you're trying to yell "look at me, I'm so town".

[iaafr]

BWOOOONG

[Evenstar]

BWOOOOONNNNNGGGGG

[JaggedJimmyJay]

LOCKED.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Your ears start to pop. This is always your least favorite part of the flight:
That uncomfortable sensation of too much pressure in the ear canals.
Your throat is dry and scratchy. Why did you choose that little bag of peanuts?
A muffled voice mutters some instructions in French over your head
You couldn’t have understood it if you tried. But the gist is clear:
You’ll be landing in Paris soon. This journey is nearing its end at last.

Subconscious Phase 3 has ended.

Stand by until the end of Inception Phase 3 for any details pertaining to the results of this phase.
This is not an unnecessary cliff-hanger; it is again a deliberate mechanism of the game.

Inception Phase 3 begins now and will last 24 hours until 6:00 PM EST. Get your actions in to both hosts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You cannot get over how comfortable this air trip has been.
The service has been impeccable. They've catered to your every need.
It's as though you're the only passenger on the aircraft.
Why isn't it always like this?
You feel a sudden pinch into your shoulder. As you turn to react, you're already dropping into darkness.

Inception Phase 3 has ended.

ColinIsCool and Pawn Lelouch have been kicked from this dream level.

Subconscious Phase 4 begins. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

NOTE:
Private voting is NO LONGER in effect! You must now place your votes in the poll and call them in the thread! The poll is official. You are still prohibited from revealing any past private votes. This declaration supersedes the private voting rules in the first post.

The following players populate this location:

[mention]Dom[/mention]
[mention]Epignosis[/mention]
[mention]iaafr[/mention]
[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]

[iaafr]

lol this pool

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You are no longer restricted in stating suspicions or intent to vote. You are only restricted in revealing past private votes. Any questions, give us a holler.

[iaafr]

I actually could see any of the 3 here as scum.

i cant tell if Dom and epi constantly antagonizing (Dom somewhat inadvertently until we started disliking each other) me is actually Towny.

Dom and epi also seem to have confidently read each other town most of the time? could those reasons be articulated?

[iaafr]

I spent the last 24 hours meditating so that you cannot get dickbutt into my mind.

[iaafr]

if everybodu suspects me I will refuse to defend myself because I still am frustrated that I cannot defend myself based on interactions with flips etc

if we lose because of this so be it

[Jackofhearts2005]

Lol what the hell.

[Jackofhearts2005]

You are no longer restricted in stating suspicions or intent to vote. You are only restricted in revealing past private votes. Any questions, give us a holler.

Thank fucking mod.

[iaafr]

if everybodu suspects me I will refuse to defend myself because I still am frustrated that I cannot defend myself based on interactions with flips etc

if we lose because of this so be it

it's not like I don't want to per se

it's that I suspect I'll be suspected in ways that I won't believe I can meaningfully defend against and just coming up with questions to me doesn't equate coming up with questions that I believe I can answer in a way that reduces suspicion on me so the entire dynamic is irritating

[Jackofhearts2005]

[iaafr]

i guess this is the ideal moment to reveal that I lied in phase 1

large posteriors do not actually excite me that much

also I am capable of deceit

[iaafr]

I currently suspect epignosis most but all the reasons are heuristic "I think scum do this more than town" reasons idiosyncratic to me that I hardly even want to bring up because the ensuing conversations will most likely be "well I don't agree" "I don't care that you don't agree" etc

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oh man, I am all about the butt.

And I could make a decent case for every player here being town or scum. I figure there must be a wolf here or there wouldn’t be a lynch and they must be at least one wolf in whoever went down to the last level cause of the dickbutt plan.

No lynch or nk tho.

[iaafr]

the level of my neuroticism regarding the conversations I anticipate in this phase is way too high but it is what it is

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m looking forward to it lol.

I watched the rest of Inception last night too.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I need to look up how they do the JGL rotating hotel fight scene cause it’s nuts and I don’t see any wires or convenient cuts.

[iaafr]

jack could you outline how your read on radishes evolved last phase?

[iaafr]

also where would you vote rn gun to head

[Jackofhearts2005]

jack could you outline how your read on radishes evolved last phase?

He was in my lunch pool to start but he seemed really nice and reasonable and Epi looked less honest, which downplayed Radish’s suspect push on him. Also Radish made no further suspect pushes.

Idk if he’s town but gth he probably is.

[iaafr]

I reread phase 3 a bit last night and I feel like radishes was the scum that kinda flew under the radar

you can still iso him in this thread rn idk he feels floaty to me

[iaafr]

nice and reasonable are like general scumtells in my book rofl

[Epignosis]

Ah, a fresh hell. Smell that brimstone.

[VOTE: No vote] aubergine until after I've had something to eat and dealt with basketball shit.

[Jackofhearts2005]

ColinIsCool (Rej) - Could have been lynched
Dom - Here
Epignosis - Here
Evenstar - Probably not lynched
iaafr - Here
Jackofhearts2005 - Here
Master Radishes - Probably not lynched
Pawn Lelouch - Could have been lynched
sprityo - Could have been lynched

So final level is at least one of Eve, Radishes and probably two of Colin, Pawn, Sprityo and probably just one or two wolvesin the whole grouping.

[Jackofhearts2005]

ColinIsCool (Rej) - Could have been lynched
Dom - Here
Epignosis - Here
Evenstar - Probably not lynched
iaafr - Here
Jackofhearts2005 - Here
Master Radishes - Probably not lynched
Pawn Lelouch - Could have been lynched
sprityo - Could have been lynched

So final level is at least one of Eve, Radishes and probably two of Colin, Pawn, Sprityo and probably just one or two wolvesin the whole grouping.

For all the use this is for today.

[Jackofhearts2005]

nice and reasonable are like general scumtells in my book rofl

I know but I suspected him initially for being unreasonable bordering on fake.

[Jackofhearts2005]

God, I would fucking hate trying to pull a wolf out of Colin/Pawn.

Also what if they still can’t call their votes at the deepest level.

“I’m voting for Colin, Pawn or myself.”

[iaafr]

I'm just gonna build scum cases on all 3 of you tonight and see which one feels best

eta 10 hours y