BEANS MAFIA - Day 6

[Roxy]

The issue I have with Roxy trying to open up the POE is not just that she's trying to open up the POE in and of itself. I understand that town Roxy only has to disagree with one of Wilgy or Nanook being scum to think the POE is wrong.

It's also the way she's going about it.

And I admit this is totally unfair pushing someone in the hospital on medication but here we go.

viewtopic.php?p=1078615#p1078615

This feels limp. Telling me that I know I'm scum is a null statement. Roxy's mirroring someone else's words on Delta flip flopping. It doesn't feel like real hunting to me. It feels like desperate clawing.

viewtopic.php?p=1078605#p1078605

This also feels limp. "I should have voted you" "You haven't proven to me you are town" etc.

It doesn't feel like t!Roxying thinking she's got a wolf in her sights. It feels like desperately trying to open the POE to include townies because wolves are in a box.

this feels like you are trying to *close* the POE bc wolves are probs not in it
And since you are so willing to vote Nook then just put blinders on and vote for me then wigly.
It feels like you are going for: Game over Baddies win - you are bad Jack.

This does not feel like Jack has a wolf in his sights it feels like a bJack who is becoming part of the POE and does not want any part of it.

[S~V~S]

Why is not believing someone would behave a certain way, based on knowledge of their personality “icky” or whatever word was used?

My meta read of someone I started playing with in 2009 or 10 leads me to believe they would not use an irl situation to manipulate me.

How is this distasteful or whatever?

[pyxxy]

On second thought it might be a less easy game than I thought since Roxy's thoughts vibe fairly towny so I probably have to look outside the immediate PoE for one of the wolves. Sure, it makes sense for wolf Roxy to expand the PoE, but it also makes sense for town Roxy to expand the PoE since the current one leaves no room for error if she's town. She has to believe it's exactly Wilgy/Nanook.

glad you added this second thought bc the first one is you just digging your heels in and that is not townie in my eyes.

And I do not believe Wigly is a wolf. So it would have to be a double Nook and that is impossible.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

_fuck_ this is the best possible joke

[pyxxy]

My impression is that those who do believe in the Roxy/Wilgy/Nanook POE tend to think Nanook is the townie in that group. Possibly Roxy. People who don't believe in the POE tend to think Nanook is the only wolf in it.

I've got this vision in my mind of us compromising, yeeting Nanook, he flips town and then nobody changes their opinion regarding Roxy and Wilgy. wowee

If you got to pick today’s flip right now, it sounds like you would be between Wilgy and roxy, who would you pick?

[pyxxy]

I think we can all agree that roxy is playing at roxy’s volition. Unfair, fair, irl, etc. roxy is still playing, her choice, I’m gonna try to focus on the play.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

You’re freaking me out a bit Abigail.

That's my special tea

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Why dough

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Wow this wagon formation is like... really bad and we are sleepwalking

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Roxy is obv wolf for another reason but I can't be assed to explain it because I know I won't be able to and I will just be annoyed that nobody understands my point.

Thief!

I'm gonna vote Jack

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - you have added diddly squat this game - pal. You were put in PA's pocket and then you went to sleep in there all comfy.
If you are town you are doing nothing to help push the game forward. I have no idea who you suspect or who you feel is town other than PA and that is not good enough. I need more. At least last time you were town you helped albeit very little but you did help I am not seeing ANY help this game so I want to vote you today (more than likely)

How is Nanook being wolfy though what is Nanook doing to push a wolf agenda forwards?

Doing nothing is NAI

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Spoiler: show

I want the solve to be "It's Wilgy because his play yesterday wrt my slot and Leetic's was bad and it's Roxy because she is trying to open up the POE by pushing Delta and myself (and Abby? maybe not) and it's not Nanook because he's relatively comfortable with the gamestate compared to the other two players in the POE and it's not anybody else because you are very smart, Jack, and you correctly townread everyone else for smart boy reasons."

Can you talk to me about these reasons? Even if it's just a brief thing for everyone, I'm at a somewhat similar point to what you are myself so I just want a sanity check if anything & a second voice to see where our thoughts differ \o/

Almost forgot to respond to this.

Abby - Town for the red peek thing that ultimately resulted in Long Con's death. Just generally you don't see wolves do crazy fancy pants plays to get their teammate killed. I disagree with Abby's worldview today but she's town.

Thunal - Early LC detractor. Her solving around my slot feels very honest. (I'm biased, here.) Went out of her way to get me to see SVS as town, ensuring LC was yeeted. Generally agree with most everything she's said, some before she says them and some by being convinced. Surely town.

SVS - This post is particularly townie https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 7#p1078007 but she's also just got some town mindset interactions with Leetic and Abby. She's tunneled on me but her push on me doesn't feel agenday. If Roxy is a wolf (likely through POE alone), Roxy and LC both voting SVS is a super good look.

Pyxxy - LC voting his teammate D1 in the way he did would be kinda weird. The case was actually bad, though. It made sense in a vacuum but after thinking about it for two seconds, it was just bad. Wolves don't tend to make up bad arguments against teammates. They just use real ones. In general, Pyxxy's solving around Abby has felt honest if misguided. I don't detect anything else that could even be construed as a wolf attempting to open the POE. Like he's flat defending me. Town.

Delta - You've seemed honest throughout the game. Your tone and mindset just look incredibly townie. You bounce votes and are sometimes like "wait no that's not where I should be voting actually" and it feels like an actual change in opinion, not some wolfy gear shifting. Being shaded by Roxy is a potential good look.

Epi - This is hard to explain. Sometimes both alignments Epi feels like he's treading water. This tends to be because of real life stuff so sometimes, I get suspicious of town Epi. I can't always read him. However, there's a thing he only does as town and that's when he looks like he's hunting for wolves. It's not about activity level or antagonism but a hunting attitude. You can see it in his posts about Long Con this morning like here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 8#p1078548. There's a bit of it D1 as well like here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 5#p1077815 where it feels like his investment is from a town mindset. And this post here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 2#p1078262 reads as an honest town though. It's not impossible for Epi to be a wolf but I'd be super surprised if he was.

Jack - Shoes of a townie. YEAH!

So that's where I get to my pretty confident 3 player POE of Wilgy, Roxy and Nanook.

From there, Wilgy's play yesterday was pretty gross. His continuing to push me reads as a wolf who doesn't know what to do so is just hammering on the same points. Roxy looks like she's attempting to open the POE with dishonest pushes. Nanook is just like weeee whatever. So of my 3 player POE, I think 2 of them are doing scummy things and one is like existing.

That particularly towny post is also spectacularly wrong and kinda embarrassing. And yeah, bad SVS tries not to say pedantic lecturey things like that when she knows its wrong.

Roxy was in the hospital and she voted me becasue she knew I could deal with that. I 100000% think she would not do that if she were bad (I originally wrote "do that bad", I have to get that wording out of my head), use our irl friendship as a chip or ploy in a game. Nuh uh.

For reasons as stated in my last post, I also think Wilgy is not bad. I can't ever read nanook, he always comes across as kind and vaguely disinterested regardless of alignment, so I'll sheep Abigail on this.

And yeah, I guess i am tunnelling you. But lots of tunnels have a baddie at the end, and tunnelling by itself is not automatically wrong.

Also re pyxxys day one vote, if I don't want to end up on the townie, I vote a teammate when it's feasible to do so. Makes for excellent distancing on Day 3 when someone says, "LC voting his teammate D1 in the way he did would be kinda weird". Pyxxy isn't on my active radar, but that's a naive reason to exclude someone from suspish imo, kinda wifomy.

@Roxy can you confirm that your SVS vote was using your irl friendship? What did you mean by saying she'd know what you meant?

Why quote that ginormous post just to ask this simple question? No wonder this thread gets so wonky to read everyone quoting giant posts to just post a one liner.

And yes SVS is a friend irl. And yes I used it for my last vote bc as a friend I knew they would not take it srsly and I tried to make it clear that was NOTHING to my vote other than just voting to get a vote in while in the hospital. I assumed she would read the thread and see splints post then my vote and totes understand why I did what I did. Which she did ---- eventually.

Why does it matter how much someone has to dig into on a post?

Why does it matter if someone only has one question?

[Jackofhearts2005]

My impression is that those who do believe in the Roxy/Wilgy/Nanook POE tend to think Nanook is the townie in that group. Possibly Roxy. People who don't believe in the POE tend to think Nanook is the only wolf in it.

I've got this vision in my mind of us compromising, yeeting Nanook, he flips town and then nobody changes their opinion regarding Roxy and Wilgy. wowee

If you got to pick today’s flip right now, it sounds like you would be between Wilgy and roxy, who would you pick?

Wilgy.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm gonna vote Jack

fucking why?

Cause I didn't self preserve when I had the third biggest wagon at EOD?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Never mind I'm not voting Jack

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'm gonna vote Jack

fucking why?

Cause I didn't self preserve when I had the third biggest wagon at EOD?

You didn't self pres when you were the biggest wagon or when you were viable at any point and I don't understand your behavior unless you and LC are exactly wolf wolf



But my other problem is I'm pretty sure I caught on to something you were doing yesterday subtly around me and maybe I'm wrong but if I'm not I don't see anything to expand on that which makes me concerned maybe I'm wrong it's possible you weren't doing what I think but what the fuck.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Roxy... again

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm gonna vote Jack

fucking why?

Cause I didn't self preserve when I had the third biggest wagon at EOD?

You didn't self pres when you were the biggest wagon or when you were viable at any point and I don't understand your behavior unless you and LC are exactly wolf wolf



But my other problem is I'm pretty sure I caught on to something you were doing yesterday subtly around me and maybe I'm wrong but if I'm not I don't see anything to expand on that which makes me concerned maybe I'm wrong it's possible you weren't doing what I think but what the fuck.

All self preserving against a townread that doesn't scumread me is lock both of our votes on each other instead of our scumreads. It doesn't make any sense to vote a player I didn't scumread before EOD.

Like Roxy and Wilgy aren't self preserving against each other right now and nobody is asking them to because duh. It doesn't make sense for town them to do that and you're proposing that I should have done something that it doesn't make sense for town me to do.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'm gonna vote Jack

fucking why?

Cause I didn't self preserve when I had the third biggest wagon at EOD?

You didn't self pres when you were the biggest wagon or when you were viable at any point and I don't understand your behavior unless you and LC are exactly wolf wolf



But my other problem is I'm pretty sure I caught on to something you were doing yesterday subtly around me and maybe I'm wrong but if I'm not I don't see anything to expand on that which makes me concerned maybe I'm wrong it's possible you weren't doing what I think but what the fuck.

All self preserving against a townread that doesn't scumread me is lock both of our votes on each other instead of our scumreads. It doesn't make any sense to vote a player I didn't scumread before EOD.

Like Roxy and Wilgy aren't self preserving against each other right now and nobody is asking them to because duh. It doesn't make sense for town them to do that and you're proposing that I should have done something that it doesn't make sense for town me to do.

I can't explain how much I think this thought process just isn't true lol you keep making false equivalency and than acting like they are the same

[pyxxy]

Well to be fair, Wilgy just hasn’t voted at all

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm gonna vote Jack

fucking why?

Cause I didn't self preserve when I had the third biggest wagon at EOD?

You didn't self pres when you were the biggest wagon or when you were viable at any point and I don't understand your behavior unless you and LC are exactly wolf wolf



But my other problem is I'm pretty sure I caught on to something you were doing yesterday subtly around me and maybe I'm wrong but if I'm not I don't see anything to expand on that which makes me concerned maybe I'm wrong it's possible you weren't doing what I think but what the fuck.

All self preserving against a townread that doesn't scumread me is lock both of our votes on each other instead of our scumreads. It doesn't make any sense to vote a player I didn't scumread before EOD.

Like Roxy and Wilgy aren't self preserving against each other right now and nobody is asking them to because duh. It doesn't make sense for town them to do that and you're proposing that I should have done something that it doesn't make sense for town me to do.

I can't explain how much I think this thought process just isn't true lol you keep making false equivalency and than acting like they are the same

Explain to me when I should have self preserved. Like the moment that it was the correct town move to vote for a townread when it also isn't EOD. Cause in my mind there's only one time you self preserve in a game no matter what. And that's EOD.

So you can say that it's a false equivalence to say that Roxy not self preserving right now is the same as me not self preserving against LC but I see those as the exact same thing because they are both self preserving votes that should not happen because they are not at EOD.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I pedantically looked up the timestamps for when I stopped being a top two wagon Day 2 so that when that time passes on Day 3, I can question why Abby doesn't think the wolf team is exactly Wilgy and Roxy for not voting each other like

[Delta]

Will be here from now until EOD o/

A little tired & doing like 5 diff things at once but I'm around nonetheless

[Thunal33]

I agree with Jack. Imo, Wilgy’s flip would tell more about how valid the PoE is than Nanook’s flip. Nanook feels like the shrug elim that tells us nothing here.

[Delta]

I agree with Jack. Imo, Wilgy’s flip would tell more about how valid the PoE is than Nanook’s flip. Nanook feels like the shrug elim that tells us nothing here.

Wilgy is an okay flip but I feel like he's had more micro townie moments than what I've seen from Nanook, can you try sell me a little on that? I'll try find what I'm on about as well

[Jackofhearts2005]

Yeah, I don't think we learn anything at all from Nanook's flip. He can be town. He can be wolves with anybody. It's just removing him from the game.

[Delta]

Yeah, I don't think we learn anything at all from Nanook's flip. He can be town. He can be wolves with anybody. It's just removing him from the game.

eh

I disagree, I think there's something to gain from the Nanook flip. It's D3, if there's a slot at this point which still feels like 'you just get their alignment' then that's definitely worrying ?_?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Yeah, I don't think we learn anything at all from Nanook's flip. He can be town. He can be wolves with anybody. It's just removing him from the game.

eh

I disagree, I think there's something to gain from the Nanook flip. It's D3, if there's a slot at this point which still feels like 'you just get their alignment' then that's definitely worrying ?_?

I mean, I agree but that's the game we're playing in.

Say we yeet Nanook right now and he flips wolf. What does that tell you?

[Delta]

Yeah, I don't think we learn anything at all from Nanook's flip. He can be town. He can be wolves with anybody. It's just removing him from the game.

eh

I disagree, I think there's something to gain from the Nanook flip. It's D3, if there's a slot at this point which still feels like 'you just get their alignment' then that's definitely worrying ?_?

I mean, I agree but that's the game we're playing in.

Say we yeet Nanook right now and he flips wolf. What does that tell you?

There's been some pushback on killing Nanook while Wilgy/Roxy have been pretty stagnant pushes & you noted yourself that people have towned Nanook out of the 3 general POE members. I'd probably look into that a bit more?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Okay there are 14 min left in the day right? Nobody have anything important to say?

[Delta]

Okay there are 14 min left in the day right? Nobody have anything important to say?

1 hour 14 mins

you'll get there on the deadline time eventually

[Jackofhearts2005]

sigh

[Jackofhearts2005]

I swear I change my stupid timezone settings every time I get it wrong but I keep getting it wrong anyway.

[Delta]

at least you're early?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oh no wait. My settings are right. I just don't know the difference between 4 and 5 o'clock.

[Thunal33]

I agree with Jack. Imo, Wilgy’s flip would tell more about how valid the PoE is than Nanook’s flip. Nanook feels like the shrug elim that tells us nothing here.

Wilgy is an okay flip but I feel like he's had more micro townie moments than what I've seen from Nanook, can you try sell me a little on that? I'll try find what I'm on about as well

What micro townie moments are you thinking of?

[Delta]

I agree with Jack. Imo, Wilgy’s flip would tell more about how valid the PoE is than Nanook’s flip. Nanook feels like the shrug elim that tells us nothing here.

Wilgy is an okay flip but I feel like he's had more micro townie moments than what I've seen from Nanook, can you try sell me a little on that? I'll try find what I'm on about as well

What micro townie moments are you thinking of?

OH yeah I need to grab those one sec

I mentioned this a little D1 but I thought his assertion of 'I will do this at my own pace' felt good esp since about a month or so ago we were in a game together where he was w & he immediately went into trying to pick up the pace w how he approached things.

Not an activity read because I'm aware it sounds like one ;_; just general approach to early game feels very different

Will go through & illustrate what I mean though

[Delta]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... r-Remix%29

@Thunal33 this is the game I'm on about above

I wont put anyone through the wonders of my ISO but if you check Wilgy's intro there vs here there's a pretty big difference

[S~V~S]

So we want to flip someone to see how valid the POE is rather than because we think they’re a wolf?

My vote is good where it is. I think he’s bad regardless of anyone else’s POE.

[Jackofhearts2005]

So we want to flip someone to see how valid the POE is rather than because we think they’re a wolf?

My vote is good where it is. I think he’s bad regardless of anyone else’s POE.

Is there anyone in particular you think would be my partner or would never ever be my partner?

[Jackofhearts2005]

and like who else is in your POE regardless?

[Thunal33]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... r-Remix%29

@Thunal33 this is the game I'm on about above

I wont put anyone through the wonders of my ISO but if you check Wilgy's intro there vs here there's a pretty big difference

I can definitely see the difference, but I also played a game with wolf Wilgy where he only posted emojis for the first day phase. I think his range for what intros he can make is pretty big and not always AI.

[Delta]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... r-Remix%29

@Thunal33 this is the game I'm on about above

I wont put anyone through the wonders of my ISO but if you check Wilgy's intro there vs here there's a pretty big difference

I can definitely see the difference, but I also played a game with wolf Wilgy where he only posted emojis for the first day phase. I think his range for what intros he can make is pretty big and not always AI.

that's peak I hope he won that game

Those are more recent examples for me though & in Turtles mafia the first time around he died d1 for not really keeping up or doing as much as people rlly wanted? & I think he had some moments in that game as well so shrug

Will do a full sweep to see if there's anything else notable but that's the first thing that came to mind

[Thunal33]

I agree with Jack. Imo, Wilgy’s flip would tell more about how valid the PoE is than Nanook’s flip. Nanook feels like the shrug elim that tells us nothing here.

Wilgy is an okay flip but I feel like he's had more micro townie moments than what I've seen from Nanook, can you try sell me a little on that? I'll try find what I'm on about as well

To me I’ve seen more micro townie moments with Nanook. I think his approach to evaluating me d3 is good for him and him calling the red check incredibly based and just going with it was one of the better reactions imo. In a vacuum not taking into account my reads on anyone else I’d lean him town.

[Thunal33]

At this point Wilgy and Nanook aren’t both wolves. I don’t think Nanook parks all day on his partner.

[Thunal33]

I’ll be gone for EoD. If Wilgy flips wolf, look at Roxy or Epi first. Nanook would be tinfoil level and not a first suspect. If Wilgy flips town, I think the game is harder than I expected and I’d look at Jack more closely. If Wilgy flips town I think our PoE is flawed.

If Nanook flips wolf I was probably wrong on Wilgy. If Nanook flips town I’d kill Wilgy unless there’s significant new evidence.

Abi, SVS, pyxxy, and Delta are town. If you need to reconstruct the PoE tomorrow then do it, but don’t include those four. Unless there’s significant new evidence I wouldn’t seriously consider them until lylo.

If I don’t survive the night, good luck town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Feeling antsy that nothing has happened in several hours approaching EOD. The only thing that has happened is me talking past SVS and Abby and Abby switching to vote Roxy instead of me because ???

[Delta]

Feeling antsy that nothing has happened in several hours approaching EOD. The only thing that has happened is me talking past SVS and Abby and Abby switching to vote Roxy instead of me because ???

Yeah I'm worried

I feel kinda similar to yesterday where I'm townreading the people pushing against what I'm voting which also doesnt feel great & like. LC was mafia but I'm still worried ab Nanook being a miss

x_x

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Sleepwalking into a flip that's gonna give us no info

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Wooo

[Jackofhearts2005]

Sleepwalking into a flip that's gonna give us no info

I'm open to flipping Roxy before Wilgy but I kinda think we get very similar info from those flips.

Like Wilgy is unaligned with Nanook, Abby and Jack probably? And Roxy is unaligned with Jack, Delta, Abby probably? I haven't really looked into it cause I think the team is exactly Roxy/Wilgy.