The Syndicate

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:34 pm "i am mafia" - cassandra, probably

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:27 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:26 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:25 pm I know that ilario and leetic are two different people, but y'all seem to disagree quite a bit considering you're the same alignment

What did we disagree on?

We were pretty aggreeable in that we found Mac and jjj scummy first two days and did our part for the town imo. I’m happy to kick back now

leetic came in a little bit ago disagreeing with the w!anne argument pretty hard, and I think he postcapped before he could really argue it.

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:26 pm apparently nobody reads my signal boosts

also if dizzy is town he has also shown evidence of not reading my posts when i have the exact same process as him

so apparently people just dont read my posts

which ok whatever thats life ig

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:26 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:21 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:23 pm I kinda want to chop anne now. And here's why:


I think that Mac is more likely a bus attempt than Jay. Jay had taken heat on Day 1, but he wasn't truly in danger until the final hour of the day, so any wolves who bussed him would have had to be active at EOD. I've already analyzed the EOD1, and concluded that everyone on Jay's wagon is likely town. NAA I thought was possible scum, but that is now wrong. I think SPF has slight potential, but unlikely. Everyone else there is town.

Mac had a role that, upon death, would take a villager down with him. Of all the wolves to bus, his was probably the optimal one. DrWilgy and anne are the two players who were not on Jay's wagon who are on MacDougall's wagon.


I also think that if anne is a wolf, it clears nutella. esooa being a wolf doesn't really clear anyone. She still could be, I'm just trying to think ahead too.

signal boosting this because i agree with the logic and

idk if you guys remember but as early as eod1 ive been thinking anne has been potentially the most important flip for my own worldview and for everyone else's at this point

@ilario this is why i believe anne is superior to esooa, but im fine with either

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:25 pm I know that ilario and leetic are two different people, but y'all seem to disagree quite a bit considering you're the same alignment

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:18 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:17 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:14 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:14 pm I haven’t read today and leetic isn’t online discord, he told me iaafr is confirmed town earlier, does anyone have any objections to what he said about bunny? Because I might just sheep the clear today if I don’t know what to do

iaafr is clear yes

i recommend reading today if you can, would like to know what you think of what marmot has presented re anne

Can you suggest which page in particular you like me to read? I’m a slow reader so idk if I’ll get done in just 40 minutes to catch up the whole day. I found anne off last eod and Alexa did fos Anne so I wouldn’t stand in the way of a vote on her

the analysis i'm referring to is just on the last page p much. hope you can get to the rest overnight too though

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:14 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:14 pm I haven’t read today and leetic isn’t online discord, he told me iaafr is confirmed town earlier, does anyone have any objections to what he said about bunny? Because I might just sheep the clear today if I don’t know what to do

iaafr is clear yes

i recommend reading today if you can, would like to know what you think of what marmot has presented re anne

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:13 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:11 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:55 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:54 am I isod top wagon quickly and I don’t see any problems with esooas posts @Marmot @nutella @Dyslexicon can you all please @ me with why ur voting esooa and how confident you are in the flip being a wolf

are you sure you read the right iso

It was a 5 minute skim lol. How about instead of replying with a useless remark you tell me why it’s scummy

idk how you dont see it, imo she was flippant to everyone and just throwing meaningless votes on villagers and just overall seems like a deflated wolf

but if you wanna vote anne instead i'm very down again after marmot/dizzy analysis convincing me again

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:07 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:05 pm

Spoiler: show

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:07 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:02 pm Can I get a brief summary of the main wagons so that I can attempt to weigh in on stuff?

The only one with actual clear reasoning is Mac's for questionable mech usage (but falcon is vouching for him). The rest are various shades of shrugs.

Should we be skeptical of the five people who are voting for axehole for shadey shrugs?

I want to ask about mac's questionable mech usage, but I don't want to force anyone to waste posts explaining something to me that probably has an easily searchable answer, but if someone doesn't mind doing that I would appreciate it.

This was Sloonei's only mention of Mac. It could be a way of acknowledging him while asking people to not engage him with it. Weird.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:08 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:08 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:07 am iaafr looking bad on votes is good actaully

Can you read Mac's iso and tell us what it means? He stunk Day 1.

not rn

Esooa says she won't iso mac when I asked her to after subbing in.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:29 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:17 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:56 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:55 am This post looks town to me for reasons I don’t want to get into. The EM gang or others should say if they feel this is not a post to be town read.

leetic/ilario are probably my top town read.

lol Jay wolfing

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:41 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:27 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:23 am

ok ur town lol

Why

Do me a favour and just ignore my presence until I do things that matter k?

these look unaligned to me btw

Not rly

Disagrees when iaafr calls Mac and JJJ unaligned. This post feels more contrarian than anything.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:17 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:14 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:11 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:09 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:07 am

No

Yeah you're full of shit. [VOTE: Esooa] aubergine Even my previous point for you can be rescinded given nutella's interaction, and you have not given me one indication you are town. nutella's still scummier but I would not mind going after this.

Your previous points are about Sloonei, lmfao

90% of the rest are "PoE cause they subbed in "

The only existing not-that reasons are Alexa going off because I didn't agree with her, and SPF saying that I am slightly tonally off in whatever way, I forgot

Extremely cringe

You have tried to go after me for basically no reason other than "wallpost", you've tried shading Mac with no explanation, you have a hedgy and overly convoluted nutella defense, nutella has given a number of strong indications of being partnered with you, I don't even care about Sloonei at this point because the evidence against you is so much stronger.

I'm gonna tell you why this post is really fucking awful then leave

You're doing the same shit people do every game someone subs in where you think because my reads aren't the equivalent of other day 2-esque reads they're bad, and it's stupid

I never shaded Mac and to even try to call it that is AWFUL

I COMPLETELY VALIDLY said his interactions that Iaafr quoted are not good for him

Mac is literally one of the best people at making good w/w interactions I know

He has literally made a partner die because he randomly RT'd a red on them and they responded poorly

I did not hedge on my Nutella defense, I explained my thoughts irt to the post

Partially too because it was something I was feeling earlier, and then remember that's just a part of Nutella, and it's probably towny overall

The "Nutella is partnered with you" thing is really just pointless

Thnx tho, later now

I don't believe esooa ever tried to shade Mac, so I do believe she's right about that point.

Mac is good at making w/w interactions, that is also a good point.

There aren't any reads on Mac here, but this post is fine overall. I can definitely understand esooa's frustration upon entering the game the way she did (or really, the way anyone does). No one gave her a chance to ease into the game, myself included.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:16 pm I'm pretty sure nanook is exactly the kill Mac would make btw

This exactly the post I made at EOD lmao.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:06 pm mac's green is probably just fake cause they're lovers

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:14 pm mac do you know iaafr

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:15 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:14 pm esooa you know me better than to think that I'd make a d1 play like that with a teammate

... yes?

if you're a wolf the green obviously isn't valid

if you're town I don't really think it is

I'm town reading falcon regardless

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:17 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:16 pm given the mafia got alerted when i checked falcon there's guaranteed to be a mafia voting me with the way that I was playing because they know it's 2 for the price of 1

what lol

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:17 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:15 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:14 pm esooa you know me better than to think that I'd make a d1 play like that with a teammate

... yes?

if you're a wolf the green obviously isn't valid

if you're town I don't really think it is

I'm town reading falcon regardless

you think that I would gambit day 1 on fake green checking my teammate?

no, my point was if your a wolf the check literally isn't relevant anyways

so the statement only means anything if you're town

This interaction I think looks reasonable for esooa until the end

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:31 pm mac is probably just town actually

not cause of anything he's posted recently but I think if he's a wolf solving in lover chat and stuff, he just puts that activity in thread instead of like flopping about

like if he's already solving and putting energy into the game I can't see the motivation to not use that to get town read more as a wolf

This read doesn't make sense to me. I feel like esooa gave herself reasons to scumread Mac, but ended up with a townread based on how she assumes Mac would play the game.

But I don't blame her for the assumption. Mac did feel like he was flailing, and that was a portion of why I had trouble scumreading him, he wasn't trying to control the game.

Spoiler: show

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:25 am Finished reading day 1. I'm kinda tired of reading posts so I skimmed/wasn't absorbing much of the EoD, but should be fine

anne - will talk about more after, generally pretty whelmed by her posts but I've liked it more than not. The biggest thing for me was her SPF read about big posts, where she posted it going like "the scummiest thing about spf is her post size," was pressured on it and said it wasn't really serious, then after being pressured a little more explains the read with like 2 decent paragraphs. It's a read that I've had on SPF before too so I kinda understand it, but mostly I think the treatment of shirking on the read by saying it's not really serious but actually having the opinion (cause she explained it and seemed decently serious) makes me think it's just genuine, it's something I've felt a lot where I'm like "yeah I don't really want to give this read cause people won't like me for it so it's just kinda a joke"

cassandra - Talked about for the most part, I thought while reading EoD briefly that her thread positioning fits a wolf who's just kinda riding consensus (which I do think is a problem right now) which also would involve going with the flow and bussing JJJ day 1, but her posts really just don't read like a bus. Even if Alexa was intending to deep wolf this game which isn't really implausible imo, I doubt she ever goes out of her way to get a partner killed when he wasn't really in contention that EoD until she talked about him a lot

DrWilgy - honestly got close to nothing from his day 1 posts. He's posted a few decently lucid thoughts this day phase that I liked, but I don't really know how he plays as wolf. Everything I've seen from him seems in line with his town games from before, though. The biggest problem I have with him is mostly other peoples posting about him, lol. People saying "the MR shot was good for him"

Like, it was on a towny, and it's not rly like he's just going to out to shoot someone outer PoE imo. Radishes is also someone who can contribute pretty well but is also a low accountability kill, like I think it's a scummier kill than not tbh.

Though I just remembered specifically his posting about calling Anne town, that was pretty good and I generally agree with the thoughts, would add those to my reasons to town read Anne

Dyslexicon - Liked their vibes but their recent reads list really pinged me

They read all of day 1 and just dropped a PoE going "Mac Anne Esooa" and it made me really just go like

This is actually just the consensus PoE for the past 24 hours and no one has cared, like hello pls why is this a thing

Particularly don't like it irt mostly in annoyance because I think I'm PoE only for being a sub, but I think it's a pretty good demonstration of what I mean. I have 88 posts in 24 hours already and I still feel like I'm being treated as a nothing slot and nobody really cares that much about my placement, the people who really do I think are decently likely town regardless. And the same thing is being done with Mac/Anne where they're just... existing as PoE and nothing is being done about it. No one's being pushed, Anne has been decently wagoned but there's no one really convicted she's a wolf, it's just kinda like.. yeah she's vaguely scummy, and votes are just placed on her

I think especially because I'm town and no one is taking any interest in movement it decently raises the others chances of being town, btw, but I digress, going back to Dizzy;

The way they engaged with the reads just felt shitty and made the thread state particularly hit me. They read day 1, which like yeah that's good, but then afterwards just dropped their fully consensus PoE with no real interest in actually solving these slots. I've posted around Dizzy a few times and liked that we had similar thoughts, but they don't even seem to have registered that fact. They said "Mac's day 1 was pretty lackluster, hope he picks it up day 2," but doesn't talk about or investigate his day 2 at all. The drive to solve from Dizzy just feels non-existent and I really didn't like it

I was gonna say their recent clap back against Illario was good, though, mostly for it feeling like a kinda towny "get the fuck off me," while I think wolf Dizzy would indeed be more of a smooth talker/etc, but I dunno I'm feeling they're decently wolfy now, prob just going to say they're null becuase idk about the Marmot interactions and think Marmot is decently wolfy

falcon45ca - Pretty confident he's town, like very. Green checked by Mac which I agree isn't ever w/w (his wolf equity probably actually increases if Mac is town cause I still kinda feel like the check is fake) but mostly has just been genuinely towny in giving like, hard hitting reads lol, as in when he explains his wolf reads they just have good conviction, and he pushes on things with determination the way he does as town, etc.

iaafr - Probs town. Had some slight paranoia from reading EoD he could be a wolf because his JJJ vote seemingly came out of no where, but I possibly just don't remember his previous stance on JJJ. I think the way he flip flopped on the read still is good but doubtfully hard clearing just cause I've pointed out this thing before and there's enough people with "iaafr meta" that I think he'd possibly be aware enough to try and subvert it like he did, more leaning to town still though. Generally just based on vibes, way he's posting, so I don't have a specific "this is town" thing from him. Some random thoughts on him I put down cause why not are that I actually did really like the way he approach SPF, he mentioned to me in DM's recently that he thinks SPF has very AI openers, and without me in the game too he brings out this read in specific about SPF, paying specific attention to her opener. Another thing I liked was the way he defended Nutella but didn't want to commit to it mostly because it reminds me of his thoughts about Limestone from a previous game, though I'm kinda eh on that particular read as the days gone longer

ilario/leetic - getting town vibes from both atm. Leetic is funny to me but the way he's pushing things seems more like a towny committed to their processes than a wolf trying to be obtuse to sow division, particularly got this feeling around EoD1. I haven't cared to read either much but Illario has just been really towny imo. Approach to NAA was good, like saying a player is mafia because they're town siding too much. Biggest thing I have in his favor was from EoD1 when he was like "why is (x person, I forgot) a wagon, I hope I get night killed."

Classic Illario town moment

Lime Coke - honestly haven't really been trying to solve him at all. His recent posts about "this day phase is weird" have made me :? slightly because he's mentioned it a few times but hasn't even talked about and is just... saying it. I also just kinda find the posts funny because NAA was saying he always goes into lost mode as town mid-game lmao but yea. People are generally reading him town, I'm fine with it don't care, if he lives another day or two will just ISO then and be able to get a decently confident read probably

MacDougall - think Mac is more likely town than not. Usually when I see him try to dig himself out of holes as mafia he does it more so trying to emulate his town style. Posting reads off the cuff, throwing his ego around, kinda thing. He's done some of the ego stuff but not as much, and the biggest response to pressure from him was just writing a big iaafr case that I liked the spontaneity of and I don't particularly think he'd be casing iaafr here as a wolf cause just.. why

Tbh, thinking this is less strong of a reason than I had in my head now that I write it out though. I do agree that sitting around doing nothing comes from wolf Mac a lot more often than town Mac, too, so yeah.

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

I kinda thought his response to pressure earlier was wolfy, I don't know how much I care about that now. Not much but I may as well mention

Basically he was pretty aggro about wolf reads on him, calling them really bad, but then he immediately switched into like, cooperative mode, going "I don't think this day phase has been going in a good direction for town, we need to come together to fix the problem." It just felt skeevy but meh

NotAnAxehole - I think he's had a few towny posts but I'm going back and forth on him. I guess he's PoE, but not really a priority at all. His post earlier about me not having thoughts on spew from the wolf was good, mostly because in one of the most previous games we played I read his spew pretty in depth to push his wolf partner Alison, so it makes sense he's expecting me to look at those kinda things again. It's mostly a minor point, though. He had some posts day 1 that were like, snap read kinda things, just posting thoughts on a fair few things in quick succession. I could be wrong about this because I didn't read much of backwards mafia where he was a wolf, but I recall his reads being a lot more formulaic/stilted in that game, not as flowy as there.

I think by far the worst part about NAA is his JJJ read. He talked a lot about JJJ, and basically seemed to put a strong emphasis on JJJ's influence in his game, but at the same time claimed... no read on him. I don't really understand how you can not have a read on someone who's a focal point of your game, and it felt like an excuse more than anything. I also think him being on the wagon is actually bad considering his earlier stuff in the EoD about not voting JJJ

nutella - have felt like she's slightly towny in terms of her reads. Have some minor gripes but meh. I think the pressure against her SoD2 was jumped on by a wolf, which helps, tbh I don't remember who all did that but I know Marmot did at least which I didn't like, lol. I do agree with Iaafr's opinion that Nutella's posts about JJJ don't look partnered but I kinda expected more? Like the one Dizzy quoted earlier and said they liked was good, but I didn't really see much else from Nutella about JJJ that I went like "yeah this is someone without TMI on JJJ"

I also just barely lost to wolf!Alexa due to associative reads lol, (Gira was the one who pulled the trigger on that but I was thinking the same while alive), and kinda was thinking after seeing that, that I shouldn't be clearing partners off of like... individual posts that can really intentionally be wifomy. Nutella's thoughts about JJJ extend past one post but not significantly.

Do agree that her having no tunnels is a bit but eh. Town leaning her

staypositivefriend - Pretty conflicted on SPF this game which I don't like, leaning her wolf though. I have a lot of stuff that I'd need to pull posts for that I don't really want to do right now because I've spent a lot of time writing this but basically, I don't really agree with Alexa that SPF's EoD was that good. She did venture off the wagons temporarily that led to JJJ being in contention, but I don't think "I don't want to kill JJJ today" is something SPF wouldn't be able to post as a wolf. It's like, not that hard to think as a wolf considering it's a pretty common thought, and she did a few things I didn't like EoD. Immediately after saying she thought JJJ was wolfy but she didn't want to kill him that day, she made a really, really really wolfy post; I'm actually going to go find it.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:25 pm i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

So, in the first paragraph she says "I would be lying if I said that I've gotten anything AI out of (Wilgys) posts"

But then immediately after goes,

then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

while saying something he's done that's wolfy. Saying, like, someone is null to you (the first paragraph), then going into "but here's something they've done that's wolfy actually, and I want them dead today" just reads so awful to me

Other random stuff I didn't like is like, her post earlier saying "I think this PoE from Mac was possibly made to wolf side,"

Which is such a weird sounding thought to begin with, but reading day 1 with that thought in mind I just go... really? Like, this Mac is making PoE's trying to hard wolf side?

He didn't do anything or push anything, and then a wolf died. I really don't think that's a wolf-siding Mac, wolf!Mac here is pretty obviously just doing nothing

I also disliked how disjointed SPF's EoD was. She threw out like.. 4 or 5 posts that were just paragraphs of her posting a thought, without much interaction. It all sounded rehearsed to me, too

I have the p403 is partnery from SPF I'm not gonna find it so there's that

Anyways what I was gonna write after all this is just stuff like, I think the gamestate rn is pretty bad just in the sense there's no real pushes and the votes on PoE are really consensus and basically no one cares, all the people who I see doing non-consensus stuff I think are town, and it's just not good imo

Current people I want to look into more are like, Marmot first of all, probably actually SPF second there, then Dizzy

Though this is a confusing amalgamation of people in terms of interactions but eh lmao

Again, esooa gives herself reasons to scumread Mac, but ends up townreading him. This time she acknowledges that this is how Mac would play the game out as a wolf.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:52 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:37 am i also find it kinda odd that you say mac usually tries to make himself get townread as a wolf by doing "off the cuff" stuff, and then note in the same paragraph that you townread the "spontaneity" of his wolfread on iaafr. isnt that exactly what youre arguing he would try to do as a wolf? this might be nitpicky but i dont really understand ur read on mac and it seems like the least fleshed out read in ur whole readslist, which kinda surprises me given (to my memory) you usually really like trying to sort out mac in games like this

I'm going to use another post because I can't help myself, responding to SPF

I guess I get what you mean about the Wilgy stuff, I mean, the specific idea that "Wilgy's posts individually were NAI but I was reading into his overall playstyle," but don't really think that's how the post comes across in how it's said

That could be partially though cause I realize now I mostly skimmed Wilgy day 1 and honestly got nothing out of his day 1 posts myself lmao, most my read on him was based on day 2. The words he was using were rly annoying to try to understand

So yeah to that

Your posts about Anne like, I mean I was being overly simplistic in the writing of it, but still, you say yourself that the reasons to wolf read her aren't like... thattt great. But she's been a wagon all day

That's also including I'm reminded that like

Both mason are defending her

And people just aren't biting

if you're town I'm probably not picking up stuff cause most this game has been played from me from behind

Both literally and figuratively in the sense that I had to backread an entire day before having the full context (while I've been kinda busy with work), and also just that I've been pretty annoyingly PoE'd because of the existence of an.. 11 poster

Who like, shouldn't even matter at this point

I mean, there's also just random dumb stuff like leetic getting angy I don't have a 100% solid list with exactly 3 wolves and everyone else town or whatever

In regards to the Mac stuff, what I mean by off the cuff posting is just like his typical snap read kinda things. Going "this person is mafia for this" and just saying random stuff

I usually read him by like, if I think he's just saying bullshit or if I actually like his snap reads

But this game my point is, he's doing none of that, and why not? imo as a wolf he wouldn't like, deter from acting like typical town!mac because what does that gain him here in terms of town reads? Is that really the best way to help his position? I don't think so,

And instead, he dropped a case, that I call spontaneous because there was a lot to it, it didn't seem to me to be something he just randomly posted. Like he had the thoughts before, and decided to post them then. So what I like about it isn't the similarities to the 'off the cuff' stuff, but the fact he had thoughts brewing that he didn't really feel the direct need to talk about. Similar to the stuff with his lovers chat, too.

hopefully explained that stuff well, but I'm kinda exhausted of writing all these larger posts after reading like 1000 posts lol

That being said though I mean, iaafr could just be right I'm being dumb about the game in general so idk

Kill who ever you want ig lol, my larger concern rly is just that like, I really doubt people's PoE's are actually solid and seems to be a lot of aversion to actually considering that the people in it might be town

meh

Esooa comes back to saying that Mac's behavior doesn't make sense for wolf!Mac, so he must be town. Like, esooa is changing her perception of what Mac's alignment could be based on his play without changing her read.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:49 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:47 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:45 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:44 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:42 pm emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.

if I can get myself killed by the mafia early when they're trying to get me mischopped that's more +ev for town than me making reads tbh

bruh

you can do both

I do like this post from esooa. Not enough to townread her, but she did call him out for his behavior here.

I just wish I could see intention in solving his alignment, because I don't.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:36 am Mac not being here is bad too

iaafr I guess got bonked for posting over the cap so lmao

I don't think this post is AI, but I don't know what it means.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:52 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:50 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:49 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:48 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:47 am

he is town

eh probably, but not resolved

how do you tihnk Falcon is town, but the best ? thing about chopping mac is you resolve your town read on an obvious town player

posts wolfily

I'll let you reread my post and look at the parenthesis instead of responding to your continued conf-biasing.

I literally do not know what it's supposed to mean if not that

You put the emphasis on best and worst in parathensis

Like I don't rly even care what you thought you meant when making that post it just generally doesn't make sense

If you're town reading Falcon, who is obvious town, why are you even putting "possibly the best"

esooa and I argue over the cons/benefits of chopping Mac in the waning moments of the day phase.

My point about the original post is that if Mac and falcon are both scum, resolving them is the best

If either one of them are scum, resolving them is the best. Why? We have to chop all the mafia anyway, falcon was always going to die for town to win this game.

If they're both town, it's the worst, because we lose two at once.

Also, falcon isn't automatically resolved before he dies, because we're assuming that they're lovers based on what they told us, it wasn't a guarantee. It was probably true, but they could have both. been scum and not lovers, or both town and playing a gambit. Long odds, but not guaranteed.

I didn't want to take the time to explain this at EOD because it would take too long.


I'm concerned that esooa was trying to pressure me in this dire moment into not voting Mac because it would mean killing my townread, falcon.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:57 am I am now voting Mac

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:59 am vote: sloonei

Guys a wolf did u see his day 1

esooa votes Mac briefly before self-voting. I don't think this is AI for esooa, this is just funny content

Here's esooa's mentions/interactions with Mac in this game.

I think the worst thing for esooa here is that she made three consecutive takes on Mac that looked like this:

1) Mac's not trying to get townread, so he's probably a wolf
2) Mac sitting around doing nothing comes more from wolf!Mac than town!Mac
3) As wolf he wouldn't like, deter from acting like typical town!mac

Point number 2 came in the midst of giving him a townread anyway. It doesn't look like she's trying to solve his slot at all, more like she's trying to force a townread on him.


My conclusion is that a lot of this, including her final vote, is very partner indicative.

@ilario I think you were the one who asked. Here is my conclusion to reading esooa's ISO, there's more reactions inside the spoiler, but my tl;dr is outside.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:55 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:54 am I isod top wagon quickly and I don’t see any problems with esooas posts @Marmot @nutella @Dyslexicon can you all please @ me with why ur voting esooa and how confident you are in the flip being a wolf

are you sure you read the right iso

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:10 am honestly iaafr you coming into today wolf reading me was one of the most demotivating things this game lol

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:11 pm I had some worry about dizzy earlier but I think their post about hating town seems legit lol

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:21 pm I'm back for a second I read through again and I can't read this game without feeling like absolute shit.

@ilario FYI NAA got green checked by Rabbit so if he's town then NAA is probably just town.

@nutella I don't get how you don't just nail scum!Mac the entire time when you've probably played way more games with him and probably have a better read on him than me.
Like I don't get how you say he's towny Day 2 when he literally flip flopped his read on you right in front of your face as you changed your read and I brought it up.

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:07 am Lmao macs claim is a big yikes

Essentially I find it very weird that Mac would ever give up an opportunity to clear his slot and let falcon green check him so I found it very weird he didn’t just wait for falcon to join the discord, I also think the dynamic of giving the neighbourhood a green check on each other is kinda pointless if they were both green and much more interesting if there’s one red and one green which may be the case.

/vote mac

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:10 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:01 am Mac's story doesn't feel like a lie? When mafia lie about mechanics they tend to either keep it simple ('I'm a cop') or overly complex ('I'm a cop on Nights that fall within the fibonacci sequence but I only get a result if its a 3P who has activated their ability and I get a double cop on N1'). Mac's story is specific in a different way ('after 26 hours I got fed up and used it') that is unlikely to be fabricated.

Or it is just a clever lie I guess, which is also a possibility because uh we're starting to reach peak 'confirmed town' in a game that's supposedly not bastard, so I can only imagine the power Mafia have here.

It doesn’t have to be a lie for him to be mafia. I don’t have any gripes with the claim I have gripes with how he used his role. And idc if he waited 26 hours I’m sure mac would see the value in having his slot cleared especially when people were already wary of him at the start of the game, especially when he has the ability to carry this game himself if he became clear and tried. What does clearing falcon achieve for town? I’ve seen falcon cleared one game before and he just proceeded to stop caring about the game and essentially 5 posted every day phase, it was a bad decision by mac if he’s town to clear falcon over himself considering ive heard falcon is pretty easy to read from others and the fact that falcon is gonna sheep Mac regardless despite being the clear and i think too highly of Mac to think he would make a bad play like that whilst simultaneously having a poe that I have an immense amount of trouble seeing of having any sense to it. He essentially has me and 2 slots who I have clearing interactions with on his poe, it’s just incredibly strange to believe that he legitimately believes me being scum with either dizzy or Cassandra makes sense based on the interactions I’ve had with both slots.

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:10 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:04 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:01 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:21 am @falcon45ca Can you/did you confirm this mechanic?

Yes. Get yo dang votes off Mac

Why do you think he's town?

If he wasn't, he wouldn't have checked me & got me into our chat

Huh?

From my understanding the chat already existed BEFORE he decided to check you. If that’s the case you need to clearly outline yours roles and the sequence of events that make him clear to you.

Falcon if you can do either of the following before eod I will consider easing up on mac:

-iso and give detailed reads on 3 poe slots
-properly catch up to the game and give us a summary of where you stand
-make a proper case for someone else who should be voted instead of Mac and why

Until either of that happens I will maintain the fact that I think mac used his ability in a suboptimal way. But as of rn if you are town you’re potentially a clear and doing almost nothing with it and just wasting it.

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:57 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:51 am

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:10 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:04 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:01 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:21 am @falcon45ca Can you/did you confirm this mechanic?

Yes. Get yo dang votes off Mac

Why do you think he's town?

If he wasn't, he wouldn't have checked me & got me into our chat

Huh?

From my understanding the chat already existed BEFORE he decided to check you. If that’s the case you need to clearly outline yours roles and the sequence of events that make him clear to you.

Falcon if you can do either of the following before eod I will consider easing up on mac:

-iso and give detailed reads on 3 poe slots
-properly catch up to the game and give us a summary of where you stand
-make a proper case for someone else who should be voted instead of Mac and why

Until either of that happens I will maintain the fact that I think mac used his ability in a suboptimal way. But as of rn if you are town you’re potentially a clear and doing almost nothing with it and just wasting it.

It did exist before, but I hadn't joined it.



If I can, then you'll consider? Sounds like you want me to do a bunch of work for a maybe. Ain't happenin'.



Why is Mac Maf? Oh yeah, using an ability suboptimally doesn't make someone Maf. You're too eager to lynch someone you seem to be aware stands a good chance of being town.

I want you to do a bunch of work to prove me wrong or else you’re just proving my point that mac used his ability to go ahead and clear a slot that proceeds to do nothing with it is far more anti-town than letting you clear him and remove a slot that will likely be dealt with a shit tonne of paranoia and has been already.

Like you have little awareness of what’s actually happening which is why I’m prompting you to actually read the thread in my previous post because if you paid any attention you would realize half the people you’re accusing of being eager to lynch mac aren’t even voting him right now.

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:25 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:14 am Like, what exactly are you trying to say here ilario?



That Mac is town and used his ability sub-optimally by clearing me? That I'm town using my role sub-optimally? That Mac is Maf? That I'm Maf?

I’m saying that mac was in a position where he was already being scumread by the lobby. He was also playing in a slanky way, meanwhile you had almost no pressure on you. In that situation, it is beneficial for him to get himself cleared even if that means he has to wait a little longer. Not only that but He’s seen I’ve seen take charge in games and solo carry, so clearing a slot like that is valuable. And I’m not doubting your ability to carry and I’m sure you’re capable of that, but you don’t strike me as someone who likes to take charge of the lobby and that’s fine because I don’t really like to either even if my play might sometimes contradict that. So with all those points considered i find the use of his ability to clear you over himself very off.


And don’t get me wrong, I can see a world where he got impatient and trigger happy and used it as town, Which is why my knee jerk reaction was to change my vote just a few moments after I put my vote on him and put it in drwilgy who I found to be actually scummy. You can both very well be town, but neither you nor him have given me a single good reason as to why he is town. The onus is not on me there, because you’re the one telling people to unvote mac.

On the flip side if mac is mafia, I can see a world where he’s also just using that as a cover story and was planning to convince u to let him use it on you anyways even if you had joined in time.

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:46 am yeah okay thanks for proving my point

/vote mac

im not changing this vote

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:15 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:27 pm CFD on Ilario?

i repeat, mac deserves to be death tunneled for clearing this guy

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:46 am Fwiw I agree with esooa that the interactions between Mac and jjj aren’t clearing, they’re two good players, and off the cuff interactions like that are easy to fake.

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:21 am Oh and There’s probably always one in spf/Mac just purely due to numbers and thread dynamics and other people making themselves towny

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:40 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:27 am

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:25 am But who am I misreading then

i dunno, what do ur reads currently look like? if you post a list of ur reads then ill tell you where i think youre most likely misreading or misclearing

it'll have to be tomorrow tho cause i should have gone to bed like an hour ago

Ummm I don’t think Alexa or lc ever busses jjj like that So they are town. I don’t think bunny hops off like that eod as mafia and gives up on easy towncred and when I was going over eod yesterday with leetic I found towny posts from iaafr and think he’s town.

Falcon is town regardless of macs alignment, I don’t think they’re scum together but I can see Mac using falcons inactivity and his habits of hard tunneling a read as someone who would be perfect to pocket and scumside while Mac just hides in scum chat manipulating him and talking about farts in the thread. I am somewhat exaggerating this scenario because of how annoying falcons read on me is lol and the fact that he just afks all game and decides as his only worthwhile contribution is to random tunnel me is just aggravating. I also think leetic mentioned somewhere that nook fossed Mac and the nook NK implies there’s probably Atleast one more syndicate regular in the scum team and Rn I think nutella is more towny than mac.

Anne I thought was town early on, read through her iso last night and still seemed fine to me. Idk if her interaction with jjj early game is a point in her favour or against her favour given that she is good at theatre as scum. Like I don’t get why she cares about jjjs read on her when they don’t have much experience together but other then that I think she’s been towny.

Naa won me over by his reaction to me today, but him only hunting for two scum when there’s 3 alive is a bit hmmmm

Leetic has a theory that Nutella might have tmi’d esooa as a partner but if that’s not the case then I can see a world where they’re both town. I had reservations about nutella after the flip yesterday but I think her posts today seem genuine and so do esooas and also I think if sloonei was maf with jjj d1 he would have Atleast made more of an effort. I get people can get busy irl but nobody is so busy that they can’t Atleast make a few decent posts. People don’t low post because they’re live is super busy, yes it plays a factor but if someone still cared about the outcome they’ll still put in some effort to post even if busy. I think sloonei would have felt as with jjj as his teammate. Also jjj made some post about saving his posts near eod to get to talk to sloonei and that didn’t feel partnery to me.

So yeah that leaves dizzy wilgy mac you even though you had posts I liked on d1 I also did find some stuff that felt off about u at times

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:09 pm The more falcon talks the more I want to yeet mac for putting us this in this situation lol. The dude just tricks falcon into tunneling whoever mac fosses and falcon looks like the bad guy tho in his head he’s convinced they’re his own reads. Honestly it’s kinda smart by mac. And he could be doing it as town but so far the pushes he’s tricking falcon into tunneling for him are all bad.

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:00 pm Hey nutella since ur the person from my trs that has the most experience with Mac can u dedicate some time to solving his slot today? I am concerned that u don’t have mutual trs ln each other which I think you would if you were tvt

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:06 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:37 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:36 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:30 pm Some of you already know this, and were alerted as soon as it happened, so may as well catch everyone up to speed.




Mac & I are now Lovers.

yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

It appears to have had less thread impact than we expected

this just encourages me to vote mac even more jsyk

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:13 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:01 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:52 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:50 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:49 pm anyway this is post 91/100 for me

gonna "save" posts again (will probably blow them whenever i think of funny stuff to post rather than actual substantive and helpful things to post

my worldview and preferred course of action remains "nuke naa/mac/anne in any order then re-eval after"

glhf

i don't buy your progression on me from the start of the day to here... you went from townreading me, and then when SPF voted for me you started acting as if you were always scumreading me

i got convinced that maybe its naive to clear you for those associations, which was my main reason (see the two posts i made about hating everybody's association reads including my own)

and like

i have been scumreading you for quite some time in this game

and also my progression not being explicit and easily followable is a towntell for me

if youre town you could be right on spf? idk? im certainty a horrible direction though

i don't think spf is mafia anymore, my alignment is not hinged on SPFs alignment... more wolfy bullshit

nvm bad read

theres always at least one in mac/spf

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:44 am But yeah I decided to vote mac anyways because I’m thinking about the claim some more and their role makes 0 sense to me. So they’re in a chat, and they have a cop check on each other but once they use the check they become lovers?? What’s the point of that dynamic? Why even have the cop check if they’re essentially gonna be tied together, why not start them out as lovers? Idk feels like something mac coulda come up with to protect himself from being voted. I liked that Mac noticed that towny line from naa but then he won’t on to do nothing with it, so meh that might have just been a pocket attempt from mac.

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:57 pm I was going to write my own town core but it's so disappointing I am not going to finish it

@ilario play more so I can include you

anne wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:56 am leetic
cassandra
lime coke
nutella
esooa
marmot
dizzy
naa
mac
falcon
spf
iaafr

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:30 am this rly is just going to be a game where a wolf dies day 1 and people go off on tunnels for fun and we lose

anne shouldn't be a top wagon

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:18 am

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:17 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:16 am

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:13 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:12 am

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:10 am Nutella fypov if ur town spf and bunny are ur ccs so one of them has to be mafia to you and rn I’m leaning bunny over spf I don’t think jjj would put 6 town in his towncore considering how much he believes in forming a towncore and yeeting those outside I’m certain he would have tried to spew one of his partners town.

What do you mean, why are spf and bunny ccs to nutella?

Jjj outed a towncore of me lc alexa nutella bunny spf. The first three are town. The next three he barely gave any decent reasons for and I’m sure he tried to sneak Atleast one partner into that list

This subscribes a lot of intent into what Jay did with his "towncore", and I disagree with this particular line of thinking.

I don't disagree with the idea, but the wolf doesn't "have" to be in the bottom 3, and I don't like the idea of forcing nutella into a situation where she has two fight with 1-2 other specific players. That's manipulative.

It sure is

yo, you're a sly dude

why do you want to pit nutella against them?

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:16 am

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:13 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:12 am

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:10 am Nutella fypov if ur town spf and bunny are ur ccs so one of them has to be mafia to you and rn I’m leaning bunny over spf I don’t think jjj would put 6 town in his towncore considering how much he believes in forming a towncore and yeeting those outside I’m certain he would have tried to spew one of his partners town.

What do you mean, why are spf and bunny ccs to nutella?

Jjj outed a towncore of me lc alexa nutella bunny spf. The first three are town. The next three he barely gave any decent reasons for and I’m sure he tried to sneak Atleast one partner into that list

This subscribes a lot of intent into what Jay did with his "towncore", and I disagree with this particular line of thinking.

I don't disagree with the idea, but the wolf doesn't "have" to be in the bottom 3, and I don't like the idea of forcing nutella into a situation where she has two fight with 1-2 other specific players. That's manipulative.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:12 am

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:10 am Nutella fypov if ur town spf and bunny are ur ccs so one of them has to be mafia to you and rn I’m leaning bunny over spf I don’t think jjj would put 6 town in his towncore considering how much he believes in forming a towncore and yeeting those outside I’m certain he would have tried to spew one of his partners town.

What do you mean, why are spf and bunny ccs to nutella?

cassandra wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:01 am ok

how confident are people iaafr is town

ive been tinfoiling him hardcore

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:41 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:35 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:33 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:08 pm @nutella can you talk me through why u thoufht iaafr had wolf equity to u eod yesterday

it was specifically an association with anne based on how he approached her slot d1, i don't feel it anymore

but what about his approach to her was scummy?

p sure i pulled quotes at the time? just looked teammatey how he defended her/votes were on her cws etc

why does this matter to you now?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:33 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:08 pm @nutella can you talk me through why u thoufht iaafr had wolf equity to u eod yesterday

it was specifically an association with anne based on how he approached her slot d1, i don't feel it anymore

cassandra wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:27 am

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:18 am I think the bigger problem with me in the ocean game is that I’m too harsh on players I consider to be great players when they don’t have similar reads as me especially if it’s in a way that I struggle to understand, and yeah i acknowledge that’s a problem of mine.

yeah that's another thing we talked about so i get that element, but i just feel like it's a trend specifically for people who have fooled you hard as wolf (SPF, dizzy, katze, anne, esooa, etc) when in reality even good wolves can be read in a similar way to reading anyone else

and also the way you approach reads sometimes is like allowing people who have NEVER fooled you before to fool you then after it happens, never letting it happen again, whereas fmpov i treat everyone equally unless i know they have very polarized ranges or something

can you explain more why you think spf is maf?

also im going to sleep now lol

cassandra wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:45 am

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:44 am

cassandra wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:28 am waza i prob won't post again tonight but please tell me why dizzy is maf without using meta cuz this feels like one of your katze reads
AKA your reads where you fos someone just bc they trick you as wolf the game before or bc you know they're a good wolf

That’s not even remotely close to what happened with Katze. I read Katze correctly at the start and end of every game I’ve seen her. I misread her halfway in poisoner game because I was getting snowed by arete at that point and felt like their dynamic was super weird af which meant there was always a maf in them two. Once I reconsidered my arete read I went back to tr’ing Katze

I find dizzy scummy because I think he’s overly bothered by my sr on him. His first reaction was to call it bad but he didn’t really evaluate whether it was coming from a genuine place or not. It felt like he was more annoyed that he was being srd for what he thought was the wrong reasons more than anything else. In a macro sense he is very different to his last game, I agree, but in a micro sense I don’t think he’s all that different. I skimmed a town game of his earlier and he’s full of insightful thoughts and isn’t afraid to go against the grain. I didn’t really see that from him in his maf game where he seems more content in just sounding towny tonally and just going with the flow. Like he was cool voting mac yesterday when others were fossing mac, but didn’t really do the same to jjj. He echoed doubts on marmot right after esooa expressed doubts but not before which is weird since it seems that he feels strongly about marmot being scum. He said earlier on d1 he didn’t like my push on him so I don’t see how I’m in his trs now. His tr more or less is just very consensus-ish to me. He doesn’t reveal more of his cards then he had to because outside of his read on anne and marmot and his 3-4 trs he gave I don’t really know his thoughts on other slots which gives him a lot of wiggle room as mafia imo.

it is though, and please listen to me on this as if we're talking outside of the game because it's a serious trend that happens with you in games. like that one game i played on Oceanlover, you tunneled me/spf as a team because we didn't think esooa (tessepia) was mafia and you thought we'd be sus of her because she was maf the game before - not everyone considers games in that way. i said not to use meta when you described the read because i think there's a fine line and you can factor it in too heavily and you literally used meta in this explanation with "dizzy has insightful stuff as town" - your micro/macro stuff registers with me on a MACRO level but i still don't think it applies to dizzy here

his doubts on marmot imo were a lot more passionate/his own and i think you are simplifying those - the stuff yesterday imo was clearly time limited and he expressed doubts on both mac and JJJ, JJJ just wasn't a wagon til EOD.

i realize i may look like a fool if he's a wolf here but i still feel like these reasons are valid.

the 'overly bothered by my scumread on him', ok sure, like he probably is bothered because he thinks it's for the wrong reasons but that's alignment aside, and i think if we was maf, he'd just call you town for it and not question your alignment for it too? it's one of those things that imo is easy to call someone town for. a towngame you skimmed with "insightful comments" is the definition of lazy meta

also im sorry if this sounds harsh im just kind of emotionally feeling for dizzy rn. maybe he just pocketed me really well but lol

on your anne read, i feel a lot more meh about her. like yeah your "only 2 specific things have pinged me" is valid but the problem is i can't point to any concrete reasons why she's town and when she's town, i usually can

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:17 am Not saying that I feel like I'm doing great, cause I'm not. I had a theory about SPF/Lime, cause SPF asked "Why did that post make Lime town" when I town read Lime for a specific post, and that gave me so much scum!Hally vibes, as it's pretty common for "players like that" to question town reads on a teammate just like that. And I also felt SPF was hedgy on Lime from the beginning. However, how Lime has been hard town reading SPF make me think this is not the case, so all this is useless. So yeah, I haven't had a eureka moment, so I'd rather just yell at Ilario.