Re: Inception [Hypnagogic Phase]
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pm
Ok I'm taking a break, I've been here all day and have other things I need to do.
Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:04 pmThen it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:00 pmI did. Why'd your read evaporate as soon as you got confirmation that flavor isn't alignment-indicative?Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:44 pmRead the last page and you'll find out.
Yeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:04 pmThen it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.
But in this game characters are random, in ME like me being shep meant that I was good and you being some bad alien thing meant you were badJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:24 amI mean I only my role and the sample role but from those super no
Uh, ok.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:04 pmThen it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.
tell 'emTonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.
And it was like this where characters were assigned randomly?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
I guess I assumed they weren’t random because my “character” is similar enough to the example.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:13 pmBut in this game characters are random, in ME like me being shep meant that I was good and you being some bad alien thing meant you were badJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
From what I've read of you: you seem too reasonable to be town. What do you think?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:13 pmBut in this game characters are random, in ME like me being shep meant that I was good and you being some bad alien thing meant you were badJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
Why's Drago assuming 112 knew this before him?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.
I hate the phrasing of this. All that shade at my case on 112.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.
Knew what?Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:16 pmWhy's Drago assuming 112 knew this before him?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.
The scumteams each followed a theme but the overall role assignment was random.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:14 pmAnd it was like this where characters were assigned randomly?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
I hate the tone of the bolded.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:52 amThis is bad as hell. How can you use the fact that you disagree with the read list against iaafr? Ppl have different perspectives and won't always share your own. I despise the shade that you're throwing at iaafr here.
that roles were completely NAIDragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:17 pmKnew what?Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:16 pmWhy's Drago assuming 112 knew this before him?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.
aww how nice112 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:15 pmFrom what I've read of you: you seem too reasonable to be town. What do you think?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:13 pmBut in this game characters are random, in ME like me being shep meant that I was good and you being some bad alien thing meant you were badJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the rules. It's all pretty clear in the first post. Alignment has nothing to do with character. Claiming is illegal, only character claiming is ok because it has no bearing on role. So of course there can't be fake claims because that contradicts all of that. How are you not getting thisDragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:52 pm I don't really see the point in making character claiming legal when your character isn't alignment indicative. So I do believe in good characters being town, bad characters being scum. And with that being said, safe claims are probably a thing this game. This is technically a tinfoil but it's very logical in my eyes.
I mean maybe Drago is assuming 112 read the rulesEvenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:21 pmthat roles were completely NAIDragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:17 pmKnew what?Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:16 pmWhy's Drago assuming 112 knew this before him?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.
I guess that’s a valid reasoning but I don’t think that’s right or in line with what we’ve been toldJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:18 pmThe scumteams each followed a theme but the overall role assignment was random.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:14 pmAnd it was like this where characters were assigned randomly?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
Iirc, roles were themey, not randomized.
I read the setup as like “cop” doesn’t necessarily apply to a town character who is good at catching baddies. A random town character is the cop.
Not like mashes where half the scumteam is good guys and half is bad guys cause the flavor is randomized.
Disregard the phrasing: Do I understand your case correctly?Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:16 pmI hate the phrasing of this. All that shade at my case on 112.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.
I tend to skim the rules.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:29 pmI guess that’s a valid reasoning but I don’t think that’s right or in line with what we’ve been toldJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:18 pmThe scumteams each followed a theme but the overall role assignment was random.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:14 pmAnd it was like this where characters were assigned randomly?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
Iirc, roles were themey, not randomized.
I read the setup as like “cop” doesn’t necessarily apply to a town character who is good at catching baddies. A random town character is the cop.
Not like mashes where half the scumteam is good guys and half is bad guys cause the flavor is randomized.
I'm not sure what you mean but the hosts publicized what a vanilla town pm looks like.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:04 pmThen it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.
Didn't read the rules.nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:26 pmI think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the rules. It's all pretty clear in the first post. Alignment has nothing to do with character. Claiming is illegal, only character claiming is ok because it has no bearing on role. So of course there can't be fake claims because that contradicts all of that. How are you not getting thisDragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:52 pm I don't really see the point in making character claiming legal when your character isn't alignment indicative. So I do believe in good characters being town, bad characters being scum. And with that being said, safe claims are probably a thing this game. This is technically a tinfoil but it's very logical in my eyes.
Does this mean you now town read 112 and scum read iaafr? (I think you've said as much just making sure)
Yes.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:30 pmDisregard the phrasing: Do I understand your case correctly?Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:16 pmI hate the phrasing of this. All that shade at my case on 112.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.
Regard the phrasing: I think it’s a good case with your premises so what do you have a problem with?
I thought she made some pretty good points. You feel kinda off, and the fact that you went hunting for meta backup on something this early is only part of it.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:33 pm @nutella how is Evenstar FOSing me for pulling up past games to try to read Jack spicy at all? I believe she thinks it was something but you jumping on her read is lazy and weird.
I considered being smarmy and annoying here, because you are clearly being deliberately obtuse. But in general I like your schtick, so let's give this one more go.Elephant wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:38 amYou have asked me a question that was unclear to me. After I drew your attention to that, you have not clarified (still!), but instead asserted that it wasn't unclear. Predictably, that led us nowhere. What you seem to be saying is that you would like to read "passivity" as scummy, but that it isn't really working out for you, which begs the question why you keep doing it. I still have no idea how the expectation of passivity can shape your read. Basically, you've been blocking my attempts to find out how you do solving in this game, which foils my attempt at townreading you. Why would you behave like this as town? (This is a genuine question!)Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:37 amOn phone now, so not going to bother breaking up your post into relevant sections, but:Elephant wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:16 amYour manner of thought is alien to me, Master Radishes. Despite being concerned with "reads", you do not appear to actually take notice of what I wrote. You open your post by contradicting my implied assertion that passiveness and politeness are not identical, and then act as if that contradictory statement would remove my objection to your question, which it did not. In addition, I am unable to imagine how an expectation of "passivity" (or the absence of this expectation) would impact your ability to "form a read"; if you could educate me in this respect, I'd be much obliged.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:51 amPoliteness is a form of passivity.Elephant wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:46 amI am not convinced that the premise of your question is correct. Maybe you are confusing politeness and passivity?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:42 amIs it conspicuous? I think there are a lot of players absent from my list. Someone said this earlier, but with so many players in the game and it being only Day 0, it's impossible to keep track of everyone.Elephant wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:21 am Master Radishes, despite Mr Macdougall's numerous previous contributions, he is conspicuously absent from your list. Should that concern me? Furthermore, this absence does not concern Mr Macdougall himself. I feel that might be unusual for him, but I do not know him very well. Any light you could shed on these issues would be welcome.
I haven't noticed Mac for better or for worse so far. He always posts a lot, from what I've seen. Doesn't mean he's contributing to gamesolving.
Question for you, Pachyderm: do you always have such a passive tone to your posts?
I wouldn't say your engagement level is passive, but the tone of your posts comes across as such. "Should that concern me?"; "Any light you could shed on these issues would be welcome"; etc = passive phrasing.
I just want to know if this is what I can expect from you so I can put it aside when forming a read.
(a) What did you write that I didn't take notice of?
(b) We're now arguing over the semantics of 'passive' which seems NAI.
(c) Players have different posting styles, but I often associate passivity (as I define it) with scuminess. This is not a hard rule, however, and some people just have a tone to their posts I struggle to look past. There's a player on my home forum I scum read every single game and am usually wrong about, and it's because he posts in a manner I find similar to yours.
For now, I suggest that we revisit my original question: do you find it in character for MacDougall to ignore his absence on your reads list, or does it strike you as unusual? I understand you are somewhat familiar with him, is that correct?
...Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:16 pmI hate the phrasing of this. All that shade at my case on 112.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:07 pmYeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.
People keep saying this sorta vague stuff about me and it's starting to bother me. What about me "feels off"? If you don't explain it I can't do anything about it. It's just frustrating. How is hunting for meta this early relevant when it's for something as specific as trying to correlate Jack's alignment when he snap townreads Creature? Should I have waited til day 4 to do it? Garbage tier shit.nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:35 pmI thought she made some pretty good points. You feel kinda off, and the fact that you went hunting for meta backup on something this early is only part of it.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:33 pm @nutella how is Evenstar FOSing me for pulling up past games to try to read Jack spicy at all? I believe she thinks it was something but you jumping on her read is lazy and weird.
No I think it’s fine reasoning and fwiw you might be right I just don’t think it’s a thing that could happen given my understanding of the nature of this game.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:34 pmYes.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:30 pmDisregard the phrasing: Do I understand your case correctly?Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:16 pmI hate the phrasing of this. All that shade at my case on 112.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:12 pmNo I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.
Regard the phrasing: I think it’s a good case with your premises so what do you have a problem with?
Because you're pretty much saying that I was being manipulative and trying to diminish something that could happen in the future, which isn't the case.
... "suspected for the wrong reasons"?MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:37 pmPeople keep saying this sorta vague stuff about me and it's starting to bother me. What about me "feels off"? If you don't explain it I can't do anything about it. It's just frustrating. How is hunting for meta this early relevant when it's for something as specific as trying to correlate Jack's alignment when he snap townreads Creature? Should I have waited til day 4 to do it? Garbage tier shit.nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:35 pmI thought she made some pretty good points. You feel kinda off, and the fact that you went hunting for meta backup on something this early is only part of it.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:33 pm @nutella how is Evenstar FOSing me for pulling up past games to try to read Jack spicy at all? I believe she thinks it was something but you jumping on her read is lazy and weird.
Huh?Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:38 pm... "suspected for the wrong reasons"?MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:37 pmPeople keep saying this sorta vague stuff about me and it's starting to bother me. What about me "feels off"? If you don't explain it I can't do anything about it. It's just frustrating. How is hunting for meta this early relevant when it's for something as specific as trying to correlate Jack's alignment when he snap townreads Creature? Should I have waited til day 4 to do it? Garbage tier shit.nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:35 pmI thought she made some pretty good points. You feel kinda off, and the fact that you went hunting for meta backup on something this early is only part of it.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:33 pm @nutella how is Evenstar FOSing me for pulling up past games to try to read Jack spicy at all? I believe she thinks it was something but you jumping on her read is lazy and weird.
Feels a lot like "what can I do to get townread by you." There are what, two people suspecting you? Town Mac has thicker skin than this.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:39 pmHuh?Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:38 pm... "suspected for the wrong reasons"?MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:37 pmPeople keep saying this sorta vague stuff about me and it's starting to bother me. What about me "feels off"? If you don't explain it I can't do anything about it. It's just frustrating. How is hunting for meta this early relevant when it's for something as specific as trying to correlate Jack's alignment when he snap townreads Creature? Should I have waited til day 4 to do it? Garbage tier shit.nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:35 pmI thought she made some pretty good points. You feel kinda off, and the fact that you went hunting for meta backup on something this early is only part of it.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:33 pm @nutella how is Evenstar FOSing me for pulling up past games to try to read Jack spicy at all? I believe she thinks it was something but you jumping on her read is lazy and weird.
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:32 pmI tend to skim the rules.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:29 pmI guess that’s a valid reasoning but I don’t think that’s right or in line with what we’ve been toldJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:18 pmThe scumteams each followed a theme but the overall role assignment was random.Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:14 pmAnd it was like this where characters were assigned randomly?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:10 pmYeah. We had safeclaims in Mass Effect, the last join venture Jay hosted, which also allowed flavor claiming.
Iirc, roles were themey, not randomized.
I read the setup as like “cop” doesn’t necessarily apply to a town character who is good at catching baddies. A random town character is the cop.
Not like mashes where half the scumteam is good guys and half is bad guys cause the flavor is randomized.![]()
Yeppers.Creature wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:34 amIs it Color Wheel?Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:08 amSoul reading town for both.
Creature + Jack if T/W is always scum Jack imo, but leaning T/T rn. Creature is reminding me of town Creature from that game I try to repress.
What are your opinions on Drago, 112 and Iaafr?