The Syndicate

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:43 pm It's probably just better peopel make their own decisions I guess.
Mafia would risk a fuck ton to assume that none of possibly 4 protectives and a Watcher are on Marmot.
At least one will be for sure.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:34 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:23 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm But I was gonna shoot her

ok so I have a very hot take

what if we have marmot watch tsp and someone else watch marmot?

kill can't be interfered with I don't think?

It would require the other watcher being town, but I believe that's correct.

But I'm a watcher, would watching tsp be useful?

sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:26 pm I'll grant you the confirmation bias, but raise that you're basically doing the same thing for me.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:44 pm No I was just speculating NAA might be Mafia sniper.
What are you thoughts on Sabie out of curiosity Gav?

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:44 pm I think if Sabie is Green. Nanook is probably always Wolf.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:41 pm OK, what about this plan.
Wiggly protects Marmot.
The other unknown Pyro can protect Wiggly so Marmot cannot die since Wiggly would be immune to roleblocks.
If Marmot somehow dies it would have to mean that the Mafia has a Pyro (be it the random one not protecting Wiggly or Wiggly willingly not protecting Marmot), or the random pyro got randomly roleblocked.

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:45 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:34 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:23 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm But I was gonna shoot her

ok so I have a very hot take

what if we have marmot watch tsp and someone else watch marmot?

kill can't be interfered with I don't think?

It would require the other watcher being town, but I believe that's correct.

But I'm a watcher, would watching tsp be useful?

under what I was proposing yes

tsp claimed a target on Sabie

if it doesn't get blocked, yay, Sabie gets killed

medic or demo can block sabie

you can watch tsp to ensure he doesn't get killed block

other watcher can watch you to make sure you don't get killed/blocked/pyro redirected while you remain hidden

can get busted by

-other watcher (soldier) being scum, this is fixable by mass claim where they have to thunderdome someone. We basically know one scum (who is hopefully shot) and put them into a 50/50
-scum pyro redirects TSP's shot, which I don't even know can happen, which sucks but they effectively have to out assuming marmot isn't also roleblocked, which outs whoever blocks marmot. Basically outs a scum to give another scum one more day
-One of the Heavies being mafia, or one of the medics is mafia. They protect Sabie and she survives

I'm only turned off of this plan by the last point. We have to rely on 4 roles being town. However, this is fixable by having blue medic and heavy (heavy can use any ability) on marmot, and red medic and heavy on TSP? and they'll all be seen by something. And if scum screws around we can effectively out at least one with a mass claim

Also if we do do this plan red and blue demomen should both be on Sabie, using Grenade Launcher

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:55 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:53 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:50 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:38 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:36 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:31 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:27 pm Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

I like Paranoia and all, but I think Mafia already know which of them did the kill, so not like the others who didn't kill would spew from pressure no?

We're probably going to vote off whatever name I say, so I assume the idea is to encourage discussion instead of phoning it in early in the day after we've already got a player to chop.

You know, I didn't really consider that. That's fair not to just end discussion with a early yeet.

There's no hammer, so

Making reads when there's a red check but you don't know who the red check is is fairly pointless, since you're going to have to reevaluate those reads in light of the red anyways

I very much disagree with this statement.
That's like saying making any reads day 1 is pointless.
Or just read when you don't have a hard red check pointless.

Reads are still useful since it forces Mafia to back their own reads which will be default have to be fake since they already know that the person the Mafia read is not Mafia.
Reads also are good for bouncing ideas around and seeing which actually end up making sense in the long run.
True if we say X is Town and X ends up being the red check that was pointless, but you can still make inferences based on who was town reading them.
Not to mention Mafia probably want to distance from the killer now that they know they are going to die today.

I mean, it isn't like that at all, since you don't normally expect to have a red check lol. It's not even close to a true comparison

But I'm not going to waste time making reads that I know I'm just going to have to reevaluate in 24ish hours anyways, that's so inefficient

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:49 pm we actually can't do the pyro air blast plan, that would let a mafia heavy or medic be able to save Sabie

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:51 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:45 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:34 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:23 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm But I was gonna shoot her

ok so I have a very hot take

what if we have marmot watch tsp and someone else watch marmot?

kill can't be interfered with I don't think?

It would require the other watcher being town, but I believe that's correct.

But I'm a watcher, would watching tsp be useful?

under what I was proposing yes

tsp claimed a target on Sabie

if it doesn't get blocked, yay, Sabie gets killed

medic or demo can block sabie

you can watch tsp to ensure he doesn't get killed block

other watcher can watch you to make sure you don't get killed/blocked/pyro redirected while you remain hidden

can get busted by

-other watcher (soldier) being scum, this is fixable by mass claim where they have to thunderdome someone. We basically know one scum (who is hopefully shot) and put them into a 50/50
-scum pyro redirects TSP's shot, which I don't even know can happen, which sucks but they effectively have to out assuming marmot isn't also roleblocked, which outs whoever blocks marmot. Basically outs a scum to give another scum one more day
-One of the Heavies being mafia, or one of the medics is mafia. They protect Sabie and she survives

I'm only turned off of this plan by the last point. We have to rely on 4 roles being town. However, this is fixable by having blue medic and heavy (heavy can use any ability) on marmot, and red medic and heavy on TSP? and they'll all be seen by something. And if scum screws around we can effectively out at least one with a mass claim

Also if we do do this plan red and blue demomen should both be on Sabie, using Grenade Launcher

I'm confused, but I also don't know the setup well. What does TSP claiming a target on sabie do?

I can also confirm that I didn't see TSP visit sabie last night, which is another piece of my confusion.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:54 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:49 pm we actually can't do the pyro air blast plan, that would let a mafia heavy or medic be able to save Sabie

How? Doesn't Sabie just get lynched?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:17 pm It was sabie, turbo her to the sun.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 pm Oh, you're saying since TSP claimed Sniper on Sabie we can have them just vig Sabie tonight?
While that plan sounds good on paper, I think we need Sabie to flip to confirm that Marmot isn't lying.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:48 pm Sabie is dying no matter what so I'm keeping my vote off, if anyone tries to CFD anyone else it's a scumclaim.

I know it's going to waste a day to scumhunt but dumb things can happen.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:20 pm sig and LP are confirmed town in my mind

LC probably too.

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:57 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:51 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:45 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:34 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:23 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm But I was gonna shoot her

ok so I have a very hot take

what if we have marmot watch tsp and someone else watch marmot?

kill can't be interfered with I don't think?

It would require the other watcher being town, but I believe that's correct.

But I'm a watcher, would watching tsp be useful?

under what I was proposing yes

tsp claimed a target on Sabie

if it doesn't get blocked, yay, Sabie gets killed

medic or demo can block sabie

you can watch tsp to ensure he doesn't get killed block

other watcher can watch you to make sure you don't get killed/blocked/pyro redirected while you remain hidden

can get busted by

-other watcher (soldier) being scum, this is fixable by mass claim where they have to thunderdome someone. We basically know one scum (who is hopefully shot) and put them into a 50/50
-scum pyro redirects TSP's shot, which I don't even know can happen, which sucks but they effectively have to out assuming marmot isn't also roleblocked, which outs whoever blocks marmot. Basically outs a scum to give another scum one more day
-One of the Heavies being mafia, or one of the medics is mafia. They protect Sabie and she survives

I'm only turned off of this plan by the last point. We have to rely on 4 roles being town. However, this is fixable by having blue medic and heavy (heavy can use any ability) on marmot, and red medic and heavy on TSP? and they'll all be seen by something. And if scum screws around we can effectively out at least one with a mass claim

Also if we do do this plan red and blue demomen should both be on Sabie, using Grenade Launcher

I'm confused, but I also don't know the setup well. What does TSP claiming a target on sabie do?

I can also confirm that I didn't see TSP visit sabie last night, which is another piece of my confusion.

tsp can kill sabie tonight if the target is real

then it's a simple matter of ensuring sabie is roleblocked, you are both protected, and pyros air blast can't redirect TSPs shot

Both demomen grenade launcher sabie

you watch TSP

red heavy and medic are on you

blue heavy and medic are on tsp

other soldier is on you

gg ez

pyros have to have some accountability for this to work potentially, but if air blast can't redirect the shot I don't think it's actually needed?

Sabie gets a night action from pyro but we might know about that? Though regardless even in that world where there's a mafia pyro who can air blast the roleblocks I think that having a yeet that we can talk about would be worth it if TSP confirms the target and his target can't be altered or delayed by pyros air blast

And if mafia try to mess things around with their role abililies I think that we'd find a seoncd through a mass claim

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:01 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 pm Oh, you're saying since TSP claimed Sniper on Sabie we can have them just vig Sabie tonight?
While that plan sounds good on paper, I think we need Sabie to flip to confirm that Marmot isn't lying.

if marmot is lying we just yeet him D3 normally?

Why would hefake claim not knowing TSP was gonna claim a target?

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:26 pm I felt that instructions were clear for building a sentry yesterday, why'd they both build dispensers

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:27 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:21 pm Actually wondering if Mafia has 2 Engies then and they're setting up to just sweep with voting power.

fwiw I was trying to pick Dispenser in part specifically because I thought the other engi would pick sentry

and so maybe we would get some level of info based on who applied to either the base with the dispense or the base with the sentry

also I think if I get blocked or saved my dispenser should be destroyed and not the sentry when I try to build it later on as my 2nd building

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:05 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:01 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 pm Oh, you're saying since TSP claimed Sniper on Sabie we can have them just vig Sabie tonight?
While that plan sounds good on paper, I think we need Sabie to flip to confirm that Marmot isn't lying.

if marmot is lying we just yeet him D3 normally?

Why would hefake claim not knowing TSP was gonna claim a target?

It's not likely he's lying, but if we don't lynch Sabie today and Sabie lives tonight then we have to lynch Sabie day 3.
If at that point we found out Marmot was actually lying then it'd be very bad.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:57 pm Its obvious Gav didn't read before posting.
But is notweorthy their first thought is that the kill was to frame Sabie and not Jack or Sig who I also mentioned Sabie was pushing.
Not 100% this is Mafia, but I'm not quite likeing Gav's chances at flipping Town here.

Sabie was also very off and on about voting Gav. They were at first, but ultimately gave Gav a pass for just being annoying.
Frankly I would look into it more, but that interaction was like 3 pages long.

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:06 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:05 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:01 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 pm Oh, you're saying since TSP claimed Sniper on Sabie we can have them just vig Sabie tonight?
While that plan sounds good on paper, I think we need Sabie to flip to confirm that Marmot isn't lying.

if marmot is lying we just yeet him D3 normally?

Why would hefake claim not knowing TSP was gonna claim a target?

It's not likely he's lying, but if we don't lynch Sabie today and Sabie lives tonight then we have to lynch Sabie day 3.
If at that point we found out Marmot was actually lying then it'd be very bad.

Let's assume that TSP has a sniper shot ready to go and it actually is targetted and he isn't lying

why isn't just shooting and roleblocking Sabie n2, and having actual wagons today more desirable?

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:43 pm Null:
DrWilgy
falcon45ca
Sabie12
TonyStarkPrime

Below Null:
Marmot
Jackofhearts2005
NotAnAxehole

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:06 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:05 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:01 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 pm Oh, you're saying since TSP claimed Sniper on Sabie we can have them just vig Sabie tonight?
While that plan sounds good on paper, I think we need Sabie to flip to confirm that Marmot isn't lying.

if marmot is lying we just yeet him D3 normally?

Why would hefake claim not knowing TSP was gonna claim a target?

It's not likely he's lying, but if we don't lynch Sabie today and Sabie lives tonight then we have to lynch Sabie day 3.
If at that point we found out Marmot was actually lying then it'd be very bad.

Let's assume that TSP has a sniper shot ready to go and it actually is targetted and he isn't lying

why isn't just shooting and roleblocking Sabie n2, and having actual wagons today more desirable?

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:08 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:06 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:05 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:01 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 pm Oh, you're saying since TSP claimed Sniper on Sabie we can have them just vig Sabie tonight?
While that plan sounds good on paper, I think we need Sabie to flip to confirm that Marmot isn't lying.

if marmot is lying we just yeet him D3 normally?

Why would hefake claim not knowing TSP was gonna claim a target?

It's not likely he's lying, but if we don't lynch Sabie today and Sabie lives tonight then we have to lynch Sabie day 3.
If at that point we found out Marmot was actually lying then it'd be very bad.

Let's assume that TSP has a sniper shot ready to go and it actually is targetted and he isn't lying

why isn't just shooting and roleblocking Sabie n2, and having actual wagons today more desirable?

like, through my plan, assuming that pyro air blast can't redirect a sniper shot

any world where mafia try to save their teammate leads to a second mafia being outted through mass claim I'm pretty sure

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:08 pm or through being watched roleblocking someone in combination with claims

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:13 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:08 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:06 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:05 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:01 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 pm Oh, you're saying since TSP claimed Sniper on Sabie we can have them just vig Sabie tonight?
While that plan sounds good on paper, I think we need Sabie to flip to confirm that Marmot isn't lying.

if marmot is lying we just yeet him D3 normally?

Why would hefake claim not knowing TSP was gonna claim a target?

It's not likely he's lying, but if we don't lynch Sabie today and Sabie lives tonight then we have to lynch Sabie day 3.
If at that point we found out Marmot was actually lying then it'd be very bad.

Let's assume that TSP has a sniper shot ready to go and it actually is targetted and he isn't lying

why isn't just shooting and roleblocking Sabie n2, and having actual wagons today more desirable?

like, through my plan, assuming that pyro air blast can't redirect a sniper shot

any world where mafia try to save their teammate leads to a second mafia being outted through mass claim I'm pretty sure

Maybe we could out them in a massclaim, however the suspect list is rather large.
We have both Heavies who could have healed and both medics who could have healed.

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:14 pm I had my entrance to today pre done during the night and wasn’t expecting one of my top wolf suspects to die.

While it’s best In theory to remove Sabie today, we also need to prepare for the probability mafia framed them and Sabie is town therefore we need to have suspects in that scenario.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:08 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:43 pm Null:
DrWilgy
falcon45ca
Sabie12
TonyStarkPrime

Below Null:
Marmot
Jackofhearts2005
NotAnAxehole

lol gav

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:11 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:06 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:05 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:01 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:58 pm Oh, you're saying since TSP claimed Sniper on Sabie we can have them just vig Sabie tonight?
While that plan sounds good on paper, I think we need Sabie to flip to confirm that Marmot isn't lying.

if marmot is lying we just yeet him D3 normally?

Why would hefake claim not knowing TSP was gonna claim a target?

It's not likely he's lying, but if we don't lynch Sabie today and Sabie lives tonight then we have to lynch Sabie day 3.
If at that point we found out Marmot was actually lying then it'd be very bad.

Let's assume that TSP has a sniper shot ready to go and it actually is targetted and he isn't lying

why isn't just shooting and roleblocking Sabie n2, and having actual wagons today more desirable?

Frankly I think there is just too much that can stop it if I'm being honest.
Pyro can burn TSP (assuming that they can redirect the kill).
Pyro can airblast on Sabie.
Heavy can sandvich Sabie.
Medics could heal Sabie.
Medic or Demoman can roleblock TSP.
Mafia really just needs one Demo, Medic, Pyro, or Heavy and the plan isn't likely to work.
We could have Marmot whip TSP and that might work, but I think Pyro airblast can still redirect that and I don't think that allows TSP to kill through healing by Heavy or Medic. It only really stops the Demoman or Medic roleblock.