Anniversary Game 4 - Staff vs AtE D4

[Spacedaisy]

But I haven't gone back and tried to fully wrap my brain around the role yet.

Dizzy when you were loverized with Violet were you told what that would entail or is all of this based off what violet claimed?

[Dyslexicon]

I'm tempted to shake shit up and vote lucy right now.

I really don't feel like what I'm seeing from Dizzy is a wolf look.

I think it's better to leave it on Rico. I'm pretty sure he just TMIed Violet town as he also TMIed TSP town.

He's taking Violet's claim as truth, even though it's just Violet's words and not a flipped role. He's also taking how Violet says to use the role for granted. He's not considering that the role claim might be true, but the intent for targeting and the use of the role might be different. I think he just knows Violet is town and can't understand how the role could be used from mafia.

I also think he TMIed TSP town real hard.

So I think it's either Rico/Epig or Rico/Lucy. Don't know which. And this is probably too little too late.

[Dyslexicon]

But I haven't gone back and tried to fully wrap my brain around the role yet.

Dizzy when you were loverized with Violet were you told what that would entail or is all of this based off what violet claimed?

It entails us dying together. That is all it means.

[Ricochet]

Why isn't Rico just self pres voting already?

I finished posting and logged off for my friend visit. I stated who I could vote and currently the sole avenue is Dizzy, due to self-pres. There's no tactic behind voting the self-pres at any given point, things can still change for an hour and half. Self-pres is the last resort move.

[Dyslexicon]

@Epignosis @lucy

Whoever of you is town. Please listen up.

If Violet does not show up, ALL of town have to vote together this day phase. Please get caught up.

[Ricochet]

Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

@Ricochet Is this the post you are referring to?

Yes.

And you can’t see how that possibly can be a mafia role?

If Violet did not lie about the role description, then... no?

First of all, Violet could just lie if mafia, no?

Also, second of all, the role could just work in the same way as Violet describes, just by taking down town with him instead of taking down mafia with him, no?

You are showing your TMI.

I'm tempted to shake shit up and vote lucy right now.

I really don't feel like what I'm seeing from Dizzy is a wolf look.

I think it's better to leave it on Rico. I'm pretty sure he just TMIed Violet town as he also TMIed TSP town.

He's taking Violet's claim as truth, even though it's just Violet's words and not a flipped role. He's also taking how Violet says to use the role for granted. He's not considering that the role claim might be true, but the intent for targeting and the use of the role might be different. I think he just knows Violet is town and can't understand how the role could be used from mafia.

I also think he TMIed TSP town real hard.

So I think it's either Rico/Epig or Rico/Lucy. Don't know which. And this is probably too little too late.

Yes, Violet could.

Hypothesis A

a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
b) This role is entirely fake (the BTSC). Violet is mafia. Dizzy and Violet could have crafted this narrative as mafia.[/QUOTE}

Will admit I didn't think of Violet crafting only the "wolves dare to kill me" part.

[Spacedaisy]

But I haven't gone back and tried to fully wrap my brain around the role yet.

Dizzy when you were loverized with Violet were you told what that would entail or is all of this based off what violet claimed?

It entails us dying together. That is all it means.

I'm not asking for an explanation, I'm asking how did you find out you would die with violet and vice versa?

[Spacedaisy]

Why isn't Rico just self pres voting already?

I finished posting and logged off for my friend visit. I stated who I could vote and currently the sole avenue is Dizzy, due to self-pres. There's no tactic behind voting the self-pres at any given point, things can still change for an hour and half. Self-pres is the last resort move.

Enjoy your friend's visit.

[Dyslexicon]

@Epignosis @lucy

Whoever of you is town. Please listen up.

If Violet does not show up, ALL of town have to vote together this day phase. Please get caught up.

Also, look at Rico's posts. I think he's TMIing Violet town, and I think he had TMI on TSP.

Going through Dolby's ISO.
It's probably a lot of "looks slightly good for this person" or "looks not good for this person". But that's all meh, and could easily be wrong. But I do have the thoughts and maybe I'll say something about that later.

One thing that sticks out to me is how serious and relatively much space Dolby used to talk and ask about me and Rico's fake kill. It looks to me like he really wanted to give the impression that he bought it and believed it. I think it fits Dolby's player style and make sure to show that like this in the specific case that he is mafia with Rico and already know that it is fake.

hey Dizzy

1. has that kill gone through yet ?
2. when is the deadline for it?
3. is ricochet still around?

hey Dizzy

1. has that kill gone through yet ?
2. when is the deadline for it?
3. is ricochet still around?

Do you have suggestions? He'll be around

still in catchup mode. don't really have suggestions for who rather as much as who not but we do match to an extent anyway. would argue towards one of the three wagons just on a basis of them having votes, though i don't see any of the three as having mutual exclusivity towards each other

i want to create some game theory tables but i don't know how long mapping would take or what considerations i should have in a dual control kill setup

tbh it's hard for me to break out of the two yeet mentality that i set within myself 30 minutes ago

Couple this with Dolby being critical about Rico's posts, but never pushing there.
Rico's mention of Dolby also doesn't hit me right in the gut. Especially early on when he says Dolby is "boasting" and asks if low-posting is normal for him. Characterising others as "boasting" is kind of a negative jab that usually you are less willing to throw around if you don't know another player and you don't know their alignment, while that kind of talk is more normal among mafia teammates in my experience.

And I just have a bad gut feeling about Rico. That's all.

For my own sanity, although it should be obvious, this may all be wrong. But that's where my head is right now.

I probably have other thoughts, but I'll wait.

[VOTE: Ricochet] aubergine

This is still valid.

Guess I have to do a meaningless buss vote then.

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Spoiler: show

As in town on town

6-2 at best and you want to lynch town. Unbelievable.

Plus this post lol

[Ricochet]

Messed up the second quote and left it in there.

Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

@Ricochet Is this the post you are referring to?

Yes.

And you can’t see how that possibly can be a mafia role?

If Violet did not lie about the role description, then... no?

First of all, Violet could just lie if mafia, no?

Also, second of all, the role could just work in the same way as Violet describes, just by taking down town with him instead of taking down mafia with him, no?

You are showing your TMI.

Yes, Violet could.

Hypothesis A

a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
b) This role is entirely fake (the BTSC). Violet is mafia. Dizzy and Violet could have crafted this narrative as mafia.[/QUOTE}

Will admit I didn't think of Violet crafting only the "wolves dare to kill me" part.

I'm tempted to shake shit up and vote lucy right now.

I really don't feel like what I'm seeing from Dizzy is a wolf look.

I think it's better to leave it on Rico. I'm pretty sure he just TMIed Violet town as he also TMIed TSP town.

He's taking Violet's claim as truth, even though it's just Violet's words and not a flipped role. He's also taking how Violet says to use the role for granted. He's not considering that the role claim might be true, but the intent for targeting and the use of the role might be different. I think he just knows Violet is town and can't understand how the role could be used from mafia.

I also think he TMIed TSP town real hard.

So I think it's either Rico/Epig or Rico/Lucy. Don't know which. And this is probably too little too late.

It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed.

[Dyslexicon]

But I haven't gone back and tried to fully wrap my brain around the role yet.

Dizzy when you were loverized with Violet were you told what that would entail or is all of this based off what violet claimed?

It entails us dying together. That is all it means.

I'm not asking for an explanation, I'm asking how did you find out you would die with violet and vice versa?

We got a chat where it says we're loverized until end of this day. Information given by the host.

[Dyslexicon]

"It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.

[Dyslexicon]

@lucy If you're the town, please stop being silly. That would be cool.

[Epignosis]

I'm still working, but I know the vote ends soon and I don't want to be rushed (also have to call mom for her birthday).

[Dyslexicon]

Might be too little too late. And I'm not sure Epig is up to change his mind. I don't really understand what his problem was with me to begin with, but I'm here until EoD to talk or answer shit.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm still working, but I know the vote ends soon and I don't want to be rushed (also have to call mom for her birthday).

Ok. Pretty sure we lose if you are town and keep your vote. But that is also ok.

[Ricochet]

"It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.

Alas.

We're speaking WIFOM language here, but why would I not glee or attempt to hop on at TSP getting flak and mislynched, if Dolby were my teammate and this was the prevalent conclusion town had reached from Dolby's flip?

[Spacedaisy]

Dizzy, here is the thing, lucy jumped right on a Dizzy vote when only Epi was there.

If violet is mafia, lucy is not the other one, because lucy would be sacrificing a teammate when lucy could have voted Rico with me instead.

lucy and violet can't be wolves together.

[Spacedaisy]

I had more of a thought but I realized maybe my numbers are screwy.

But if Rico is mafia and you are not, it has to be Rico and violet, because otherwise there would be no down side to a self pres vote right now.

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy, here is the thing, lucy jumped right on a Dizzy vote when only Epi was there.

If violet is mafia, lucy is not the other one, because lucy would be sacrificing a teammate when lucy could have voted Rico with me instead.

lucy and violet can't be wolves together.

Yeah, but I don't think Violet is mafia. Lucy could only be mafia with Rico.

If Violet is mafia, we're probably good. Because if things don't change, me and Violet are going down. But I bet Violet is town.

[Spacedaisy]

If you are mafia and Rico is mafia, I also do not see why he would hold his vote, yeah he loses a teammate, but he also takes out a civ. Would that lose the vis the game?

[Dyslexicon]

I don't know if I've seen Epig really talk about Rico at all.

[Ricochet]

Reminder that I'm down to lucy and Daisy as wolves if I am to believe that the role claims from Dizzy (original) and Violet (current) are town - even though Dizzy only wants their role townread and not Violet's.

[Dyslexicon]

"It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.

Alas.

We're speaking WIFOM language here, but why would I not glee or attempt to hop on at TSP getting flak and mislynched, if Dolby were my teammate and this was the prevalent conclusion town had reached from Dolby's flip?

You didn't know town would reach that conclusion. You also didn't need to add on TSP. He was going down without your help and you had already argued for him being town.

[Spacedaisy]

If violet's claim is true, I can only see two options of teams lucy/Dizzy or lucy/Rico.

If I am really tinfoiling, lucy/Epi, but I just don't see that in Epi right now.

[Dyslexicon]

If you are mafia and Rico is mafia, I also do not see why he would hold his vote, yeah he loses a teammate, but he also takes out a civ. Would that lose the vis the game?

Me and Rico are obviously not teamed. =p

[Spacedaisy]

Reminder that I'm down to lucy and Daisy as wolves if I am to believe that the role claims from Dizzy (original) and Violet (current) are town - even though Dizzy only wants their role townread and not Violet's.

This is a valid assumption to anyone who still has me in their PoE.

But note that it still includes lcuy, I am having a hard time mechanically seeing a world in which lucy is not mafia here.

[Spacedaisy]

All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.

[Ricochet]

"It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.

Alas.

We're speaking WIFOM language here, but why would I not glee or attempt to hop on at TSP getting flak and mislynched, if Dolby were my teammate and this was the prevalent conclusion town had reached from Dolby's flip?

You didn't know town would reach that conclusion. You also didn't need to add on TSP. He was going down without your help and you had already argued for him being town.

It's not about what conclusion town reached in the end, it's about how I argued that the bus scenario is too extreme and mostly everyone said nah. We were in the midst of discussing it.

[Dyslexicon]

If violet's claim is true, I can only see two options of teams lucy/Dizzy or lucy/Rico.

If I am really tinfoiling, lucy/Epi, but I just don't see that in Epi right now.

Rico/Epig is possible.
As is Lucy/Rico

Those are the two most likely to me right now.

But if Violet is chopped, it is what it is. He didn't evens how up to help or cast a vote. But it should be him being voted and not me. Like lol. But here we are.

[Ricochet]

Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

[Dyslexicon]

"It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.

Alas.

We're speaking WIFOM language here, but why would I not glee or attempt to hop on at TSP getting flak and mislynched, if Dolby were my teammate and this was the prevalent conclusion town had reached from Dolby's flip?

You didn't know town would reach that conclusion. You also didn't need to add on TSP. He was going down without your help and you had already argued for him being town.

It's not about what conclusion town reached in the end, it's about how I argued that the bus scenario is too extreme and mostly everyone said nah. We were in the midst of discussing it.

Yes?

So if you are mafia, you knew TSP was town, thought that would obvious because of how he acted towards Dolby and argued for that.

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

No. He has not called it mistaken.

[Dyslexicon]

All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.

It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.

[Ricochet]

"It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.

Alas.

We're speaking WIFOM language here, but why would I not glee or attempt to hop on at TSP getting flak and mislynched, if Dolby were my teammate and this was the prevalent conclusion town had reached from Dolby's flip?

You didn't know town would reach that conclusion. You also didn't need to add on TSP. He was going down without your help and you had already argued for him being town.

It's not about what conclusion town reached in the end, it's about how I argued that the bus scenario is too extreme and mostly everyone said nah. We were in the midst of discussing it.

Yes?

So if you are mafia, you knew TSP was town, thought that would obvious because of how he acted towards Dolby and argued for that.

WIFOM.

[Spacedaisy]

If Violet is chopping and you are both town, we lose. In fact, I wonder if we are not finished if either of you are chopped even if one of you is bad.

No, I just did some number crunching and assuming only one kill tonight, I think we will be at f3, correct?

[Ricochet]

Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

No. He has not called it mistaken.

He literally did.

Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

[Spacedaisy]

Yeah, Dizzy is not bad here. Dizzy is town and either Epi or lucy, if one of you is town you need to move.

I think lucy is the right vote here.

[Dyslexicon]

WIFOM.

No. It's a direct accusation that you had TMI. That is something different.

As I'm claiming that your reading of Violet's claim as town is also TMI.

That is what I think. I think I'm right, I could be wrong.

But it doesn't matter. Town didn't want to chop you when I cased you D2. It doesn't look like it's happening now. At least I tried.

[Ricochet]

All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.

It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.

Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

No. He has not called it mistaken.

He literally did.

Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

We are literally loverized. HE CONTINUES "it's more like a hostage taker". It is the exact same effect. Loverized is the word the host used. Violet is claiming it in a different flavour to try and show how the role is town sided. But it is the same effect. Me and Violet do not disagree.

[Dyslexicon]

All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.

It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.

Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?

It's not a vig shot. Nobody is talking about a vig shot.

It's just that we die as a pair. If one die, so does the other. It's not a shot.

[Dyslexicon]

Yeah, Dizzy is not bad here. Dizzy is town and either Epi or lucy, if one of you is town you need to move.

I think lucy is the right vote here.

What constellations are you seeing as possible again?

Why Lucy over Rico?

[Ricochet]

Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

No. He has not called it mistaken.

He literally did.

Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

We are literally loverized. HE CONTINUES "it's more like a hostage taker". It is the exact same effect. Loverized is the word the host used. Violet is claiming it in a different flavour to try and show how the role is town sided. But it is the same effect. Me and Violet do not disagree.

I don't know how to interpret "hostage taking". @Violet could clear it up. As also clearing up if you two blow up together, to which the "wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own" bit sounds completely apart.

[Spacedaisy]

It seems to me that lucy is a member of the most remaining possible permutations of the wolf team.

[Epignosis]

I read through Violet's posts. All 15 of them. What little is there sounds genuine to me.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: lucy] aubergine for now.

[Ricochet]

All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.

It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.

Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?

It's not a vig shot. Nobody is talking about a vig shot.

It's just that we die as a pair. If one die, so does the other. It's not a shot.

Poorly termed. A booby trap. Violet claims to be a mafia booby trap, if correctly "paired with a wolf".

"wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own"

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

No. He has not called it mistaken.

He literally did.

Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

We are literally loverized. HE CONTINUES "it's more like a hostage taker". It is the exact same effect. Loverized is the word the host used. Violet is claiming it in a different flavour to try and show how the role is town sided. But it is the same effect. Me and Violet do not disagree.

I don't know how to interpret "hostage taking". @Violet could clear it up. As also clearing up if you two blow up together, to which the "wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own" bit sounds completely apart.

Loverizer is a standard mechanic.

Violet is calling it "hostage taker" to make it sound better. (Which might actually be a little bit scummy)

Unfortunately, Violet is not here to clear it up, it seems.

[Ricochet]

All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.

It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.

Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?

It's not a vig shot. Nobody is talking about a vig shot.

It's just that we die as a pair. If one die, so does the other. It's not a shot.

Poorly termed. A booby trap. Violet claims to be a mafia booby trap, if correctly "paired with a wolf".

"wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own"

I'm losing faith in this arguing.

Dizzy: Violet's role is that we blow up together.

Violet: My role is that wolves blow up if the kill me.

Dizzy: me and violet said the same thing!