Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

[Boquise]

Shall we do falcon, Marmot or NateTheLesser?

Or do you want to convince me on another player?

I'm leaning the three unless it's Dyslexicon taking advantage of "Dizzy would play harder as wolf" or Mac got Alison like she is a purring cat.

Why would Dizzy play harder as scum? I haven't seen this mentioned before

[Creature]

Shall we do falcon, Marmot or NateTheLesser?

Or do you want to convince me on another player?

I'm leaning the three unless it's Dyslexicon taking advantage of "Dizzy would play harder as wolf" or Mac got Alison like she is a purring cat.

Why would Dizzy play harder as scum? I haven't seen this mentioned before

Someone said something along the line about Dizzy. Not sure if I can trust it.

[Dyslexicon]

Oh, you can trust it.

But the reason I haven't been around is just out of game reasons.
I haven't read the game and therefore not participated yet.

I don't know if I will before EoD or not.

[Boquise]

Oh, you can trust it.

But the reason I haven't been around is just out of game reasons.
I haven't read the game and therefore not participated yet.

I don't know if I will before EoD or not.

[NateTheLesser]

JJJ def has better scum reads than me right now, & Nate's vote is lazy.



Of the 2, Nate is my pick for scum. Jay feels like he's trying to get towny activity out of me with his vote.



I have a sneaking suspicion that Maf are kinda letting town do their work for them currently, with a town voice in their crew.


So 1 Maf amongst the more vocal, with 1 -2 amongst the mid level contributors and 1-2 amongst the slanking players

Is this just a different way of saying the team is me / Sean / Marmot again?

[NateTheLesser]

Hey folks, my allergies have been killing me all evening, and playing mafia doesn't feel feasible. I won't be around until near the deadline. I'll try to catch up and participate at that point.

Hope you feel better!

[Dyslexicon]

In other news, I'm becoming increasingly attracted to Agent Cooper.

[Seanzie]

@Seanzie please talk to me about Ender a little bit. If you could summarize your suspicion in a sentence or two, how might you do so

Uhh... I think it has to do with some moments of inauthentic presence that seemed to be more designed to make Ender look active rather than do anything. He spent a lot of time early game bantering wont Rondo, which I didn't feel was going anywhere, and then his "gamestate" read felt inauthentic - something that might make him look like he is considering the game as a whole and having some weird bad feeling he can't quite explain... but the way he described it, it felt more like he was writing a little piece of descriptive fiction rather than describing how he really felt.

Plus I feel he is being deliberately difficult with me. Which... is probably NAI (usually I'd say even possibly town-indicative, but I feel Ender has been around the block enough times to not be the type of wolf that people-pleases all the time), and while my rational side knows it is probably NAI, I still kinda wanna vote it.

[NateTheLesser]

falcon, what's your Mac read exactly? You've been picking apart his posts, but you don't seem like you're gearing up for a push. I struggle to see what you're getting at.

67% town, I don't think scum Mac would push my ML so hard. I'd say his gut feel is real, it's just wrong.

yeah but like, as town I'm never wrong on you so you shouldn't think I'm town lol

Can anyone vouch for Mac never being wrong as town about falcon?

Gth I’d say I’m townleaning mac, and scumleaning falcon so considering following that vote but I have reservations as I always think falcon is scum and have been wrong

Have you played with scum!Falcon?

[Seanzie]

JJJ def has better scum reads than me right now, & Nate's vote is lazy.



Of the 2, Nate is my pick for scum. Jay feels like he's trying to get towny activity out of me with his vote.



I have a sneaking suspicion that Maf are kinda letting town do their work for them currently, with a town voice in their crew.


So 1 Maf amongst the more vocal, with 1 -2 amongst the mid level contributors and 1-2 amongst the slanking players

Is this just a different way of saying the team is me / Sean / Marmot again?

Did you ever find the time to give me an update on the game/reads from your perspective? I asked you about it yesterday and I know you said you were still catching up.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

[NateTheLesser]

Town:
Mac
Lucy
Alison
Rondo
Seanize
Nate? (Feels like the same approach as in his quali)
JJJ?
Creature?
Ender?

Neutral:
Finger
Wilgy (I respect Alison's take there tho)
Dizzy

Scum leans:
Falcon
Marmot

I like the activity but you said just above that Falcon may be mislynch but keep him in your hard scum leans?

I don't have any hard scum leans
I am worried about my Falcon read yeah, considering the push on him, but I also need to respect where my read is instead of walking around it. There are times where the thread is correct on D1 so. I voted Marmot over Falcon anyway tbh

You said your observation of Mac's playstyle is that he often hard tunnels someone to see what ripples out from it. Do you think that's how he's approaching Falcon?

[fingersplints]

I have a vague impression that fingersplints is trying to sort the game, even if we cannot see all of it in actual posts. There are nuggets and hints to suggest it. This is not a strong read and should be taken with a grain of salt, but it's my initial gun-to-head view.

Yes, I’m contemplating where we go if wrong about todays candidates. Looking to the future

[Seanzie]

I have a vague impression that fingersplints is trying to sort the game, even if we cannot see all of it in actual posts. There are nuggets and hints to suggest it. This is not a strong read and should be taken with a grain of salt, but it's my initial gun-to-head view.

Yes, I’m contemplating where we go if wrong about todays candidates. Looking to the future

Perhaps you can share your thoughts on who you think should go today? If you already did, just let me know and I'll look through your ISO.

[fingersplints]

If you wish to answer and don't have four names, get as close as you can.

I haven’t read everything so can’t be confident in four on day 1. I’d solidly place you and Mac at the top, I think both Alison and Ender are likely ok, but more hesitant. I think if you take away playstyle things then rondo is ok

[fingersplints]

falcon, what's your Mac read exactly? You've been picking apart his posts, but you don't seem like you're gearing up for a push. I struggle to see what you're getting at.

67% town, I don't think scum Mac would push my ML so hard. I'd say his gut feel is real, it's just wrong.

yeah but like, as town I'm never wrong on you so you shouldn't think I'm town lol

Can anyone vouch for Mac never being wrong as town about falcon?

Gth I’d say I’m townleaning mac, and scumleaning falcon so considering following that vote but I have reservations as I always think falcon is scum and have been wrong

Have you played with scum!Falcon?

Yes

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: NatetheLesser] aubergine

[robyn]

@lucy you seem to have lost some steam. What's happening

I was uncharacteristically active, plus i’m working full time atm, on the clock rn

[Seanzie]

@Dyslexicon

I know it sounds like you have some out-of-game things keeping you waway form the thread, but if you find the time, can you ISO one of the following and give your thoughts:

NatetheLesser
Marmot
DrWilgy
Creature

All their ISOs are pretty short - less than one page or barely onto the second.

[Creature]

Not sure if I am fan of this gamestate

I know I am town and I'm not really sure on falcon being wolf

[Creature]

I'm afraid we aren't placing pressure on any wolf here

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’m getting slaughtered today at work. I will be around later.

[Creature]

It feels like nothing will happen until the last few minutes where a lot of sketchy players will lazily pile on me to avoid a tie.

Please do actual hunting instead of waiting until the last minute to do so.

[Creature]

The longer MacDougall stays on me the sketchier his vote is.

[NateTheLesser]

JJJ def has better scum reads than me right now, & Nate's vote is lazy.



Of the 2, Nate is my pick for scum. Jay feels like he's trying to get towny activity out of me with his vote.



I have a sneaking suspicion that Maf are kinda letting town do their work for them currently, with a town voice in their crew.


So 1 Maf amongst the more vocal, with 1 -2 amongst the mid level contributors and 1-2 amongst the slanking players

Is this just a different way of saying the team is me / Sean / Marmot again?

Did you ever find the time to give me an update on the game/reads from your perspective? I asked you about it yesterday and I know you said you were still catching up.

I did not, no. There are still a few pages from yesterday during the (US) day that I haven't read, but I have more time today to catch up the rest of the way and stay current. I'll give you some thoughts, though, starting off with @JaggedJimmyJay's request for 4 town names. My top town would be JJJ, Mac, Boq, and Lucy. I know that has significant overlap with "most active". But JJJ and Boq both seem to be doing their own thing and solving independently while also making sure the overall thread state is moving in a positive direction. None of JJJ/Mac/Boq seem all that concerned with triangulating their reads so they match up (as one example, Boq's early town leans had overlap with Mac's early scum leans). Lucy I still just think is town from overall comfort level and tone. I think she'd be more self-conscious about not having reads as a wolf, especially when Mac was prodding her about it.

The tier below that (call it town leans) I'd put you (Sean) and Alison. You've trended up for me. I kind of vibed with Falcon's early read of you being "stiff", but that was mostly Day 0. I think Day 1 your pushes have made sense to me and you're poking at things in a solvey way. I had some initial concern that you were trying to keep Lucy in the POE, but you explained why Mac townleaning her stood out to you, so fine. Alison I'm townleaning at this point mostly from overlap between our town and scum piles, and she's been broadly engaging with players in the game rather than keeping a narrow focus. Do you still feel like her push on Rondo was just to cause disruption? It hasn't seemed to play out that way.

Some flavor of null on Creature/Dizzy/Ender/Fingersplints/Marmot. Of those it bothers me the most that I don't have a read on Ender. In our qualifier he projected a lot of solving towniness that I don't see here, but he was also a wolf in that game, so I'm not sure how to apply that meta. Creature I haven't gotten any specific pings from; seems like there's concern that their lack of activity is telling, but I have no meta there. So I think those are my two nulls that I want to sort in some fashion.

That leaves Falcon/Rondo/Wilgy as POE, which I really don't think is the exact team because that would be wild. I'm still fine with my Falcon vote, the only thing that makes me paranoid is how many people seem to agree with me. With both Falcon and Rondo they're in my POE because I get hints of agenda poking through the fluff. Wilgy's mostly here from, well, process of elimination, but I also didn't like his reaction to a towncore forming and asked him for more thoughts on that.

[Creature]

I kinda think that there is a necessary auto period here.

Like there is a line and those below it have to all die before those above it because if the mafia are all above it the game is already over and we are wasting our time and that's very unlikely.

Line

Dyslexicon
Creature
Falcon
DrWilgy

For some reason I don't want to put Fingersplints below the line. I think Dyslexicon has the most chance of being town but I can't reasonably put him above it.

This post is just terrible and you all are completely ignoring how terrible this post is

[Seanzie]

Kinda think we should make Wilgy a wagon again.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[NateTheLesser]

falcon, what's your Mac read exactly? You've been picking apart his posts, but you don't seem like you're gearing up for a push. I struggle to see what you're getting at.

67% town, I don't think scum Mac would push my ML so hard. I'd say his gut feel is real, it's just wrong.

yeah but like, as town I'm never wrong on you so you shouldn't think I'm town lol

Can anyone vouch for Mac never being wrong as town about falcon?

Gth I’d say I’m townleaning mac, and scumleaning falcon so considering following that vote but I have reservations as I always think falcon is scum and have been wrong

Have you played with scum!Falcon?

Yes

👍

Are you scumleaning Falcon due to that past experience, or what's feeding that scumlean?

[DrWilgy]

Kinda think we should make Wilgy a wagon again.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I'm unsure my guy. If this wasn't a doctor patient relationship, I'd say this screams opportunism.

[Seanzie]

Kinda think we should make Wilgy a wagon again.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I'm unsure my guy. If this wasn't a doctor patient relationship, I'd say this screams opportunism.

P sure Wilgy is just outed. Oppotunism my butt. There is nothing opportunitic about my play around Wilgy. He has constantly been a major concern of mine and isn't currently a wagon. This thought is fake. Wilgy woooooolfy

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy I have no idea when you have or have not done that exact thing as mafia. That is more specific than I am going to get with a meta read. Is Mac in the “town core”?

It appears so.

Even if it is just a 2 person core from what I've seen of the thread so far and trying to exclude my own bias. Other potential core members who are being read as town potentially include Boc, you, maybe Alison. It is early but I see it developing.

I'm not sure how to read this other than like, resigned and disappointed that a towncore is forming.

I had to go back as I read this earlier, but wasn't in a place to respond. My time with patients should involve my phone less you see, but your desire for insight here is warranted.

The answer I had provided was strictly in response to who I believed to be the greater threads 'town core' i.e. not just my own bias and reads. In response to that, I was acknowledging that Mac was a part of many town reads and would likely be within that town core. My reaction to Mac, specifically, being core, was deflated as I did not agree.

This was also following some frustration in that I'm acknowledging that I'm no longer good at reading Mac.

So, yes, I'm very much glad people have reads and a core is forming, BUT in the moment didn't desire Mac to be as town placed as he was.

Now that I've slept on it and thought about it more, I do believe I've spent too much time in what I must now acknowledge as tinfoil towards Mac. His content is good and I do think it is pro town currently. I will leave it at that and may reassess as the game progresses.

[Seanzie]

I kinda think that there is a necessary auto period here.

Like there is a line and those below it have to all die before those above it because if the mafia are all above it the game is already over and we are wasting our time and that's very unlikely.

Line

Dyslexicon
Creature
Falcon
DrWilgy

For some reason I don't want to put Fingersplints below the line. I think Dyslexicon has the most chance of being town but I can't reasonably put him above it.

This post is just terrible and you all are completely ignoring how terrible this post is

I thought about these two a lot while I was shaving my head. I'd like to say more about this, but if possible I'd like to hear from @MacDougall about something first.

Mac, how serious was your suggestion in the post above?

[DrWilgy]

Kinda think we should make Wilgy a wagon again.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I'm unsure my guy. If this wasn't a doctor patient relationship, I'd say this screams opportunism.

P sure Wilgy is just outed. Oppotunism my butt. There is nothing opportunitic about my play around Wilgy. He has constantly been a major concern of mine and isn't currently a wagon. This thought is fake. Wilgy woooooolfy

Is it now?

I've expressed concern at your lack of alternative ways of thinking and acting towards me. You continue to advise that I'm scum without much engagement. This isn't even an engagement towards me, just a claim.

I did not believe you felt your earlier claims that I was scum and have expressed it.

"Now that my name appeared thrice, it was a far too good of a fruit for scum to not attempt to chomp at. Seanzie just did this." I believe is perfectly reasonable thought.

[DrWilgy]

I have not seen anyone else express concern in Seanzie here in a while.

Do we think I am wrong? Throwing fake reads?

If I am wrong, why?

[Seanzie]

Kinda think we should make Wilgy a wagon again.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I'm unsure my guy. If this wasn't a doctor patient relationship, I'd say this screams opportunism.

P sure Wilgy is just outed. Oppotunism my butt. There is nothing opportunitic about my play around Wilgy. He has constantly been a major concern of mine and isn't currently a wagon. This thought is fake. Wilgy woooooolfy

Is it now?

I've expressed concern at your lack of alternative ways of thinking and acting towards me. You continue to advise that I'm scum without much engagement. This isn't even an engagement towards me, just a claim.

I did not believe you felt your earlier claims that I was scum and have expressed it.

"Now that my name appeared thrice, it was a far too good of a fruit for scum to not attempt to chomp at. Seanzie just did this." I believe is perfectly reasonable thought.

Yeah, you've expressed concern, but you know what I think? I think it is more concern that I pegged you as scum early. This quote:

Something about Wilgy feels off. Not enough to act on, but wnough to comment on.

*Pushes up glasses* now tell me Seanzie, how does that make you feel?

It makes me feel like I might have a lead on a wolf.

I see... *Scribbles down notes* now that you feel that, how do you wish to act following? Can you tell me the first thing that comes to mind, but after provide 2 more alternatives?

reeks of someone trying to get a townie off their back, and I didn't respond the way you wanted me to and I think you're a bit sour about that.

Your name has appeared significantly more than thrice. Good try, but no.

[Seanzie]

I have not seen anyone else express concern in Seanzie here in a while.

Do we think I am wrong? Throwing fake reads?

If I am wrong, why?

Your only "read" of me is based off an exchange we had shortly after I first posted in D0. Do you have anything to say about me regarding... the entire rest of the game?

[Dyslexicon]

@Dyslexicon

I know it sounds like you have some out-of-game things keeping you waway form the thread, but if you find the time, can you ISO one of the following and give your thoughts:

NatetheLesser
Marmot
DrWilgy
Creature

All their ISOs are pretty short - less than one page or barely onto the second.

It sure sounds that way.

I don't usually get a lot out of ISO-ing, and especially when I have no clue what is going on in the game overall.
However, I'll make sure to do Marmot if I'm not able to read the game properly or satisfactory before EoD. Since you are asking so nicely.
He's the only one out of the bunch I think I can read reliably meta-wise.

Can you or someone tell me why Ender and Rondo are voting me?
Kind of cringe.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Can you or someone tell me why Ender and Rondo are voting me?
Kind of cringe.

@EnderWiggin @RondoDimBuckle

[Seanzie]

@Dyslexicon

I know it sounds like you have some out-of-game things keeping you waway form the thread, but if you find the time, can you ISO one of the following and give your thoughts:

NatetheLesser
Marmot
DrWilgy
Creature

All their ISOs are pretty short - less than one page or barely onto the second.

It sure sounds that way.

I don't usually get a lot out of ISO-ing, and especially when I have no clue what is going on in the game overall.
However, I'll make sure to do Marmot if I'm not able to read the game properly or satisfactory before EoD. Since you are asking so nicely.
He's the only one out of the bunch I think I can read reliably meta-wise.

Can you or someone tell me why Ender and Rondo are voting me?
Kind of cringe.

I think Rondo is voting you because you didn't answer their question(s). If you asked Rondo why Ender is voting, Rondo would say that Ender is voting because Ender is seeing the same things as Rondo. If you asked Ender, he would probably say his vote is pressure to get you to do something.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Now that I've slept on it and thought about it more, I do believe I've spent too much time in what I must now acknowledge as tinfoil towards Mac. His content is good and I do think it is pro town currently. I will leave it at that and may reassess as the game progresses.

I think it would be help me, Wilgy McGoo, if you could talk about your read on Mac as though you're not a part of it -- that is, it seems to me that when you remove DrWilgy's existence from Mac's play, you like Mac's play. If so, what about that gives you a good impression of him?

[Dyslexicon]

I think Rondo is voting you because you didn't answer their question(s). If you asked Rondo why Ender is voting, Rondo would say that Ender is voting because Ender is seeing the same things as Rondo. If you asked Ender, he would probably say his vote is pressure to get you to do something.

Ok, thanks. I haven't seen these questions.

[Dyslexicon]

@Dyslexicon Two things

1) What is your favourite kind of burrito
B) What is your game state read?
%) If you had a vig who is gone and why?

1) Something with a lot of guacamole. I'm not really a foodie or anything, and I eat vegetarian. But guacamole is important.
B) Nothing, as I haven't read the game yet.
%) You. Because why not.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

From the standpoint of "how do I feel about the cases I have made and have seen made" for four players who either have multiple votes right now or have been discussed as suspects to a comparable degree:

Dizzy - I have no view of Dizzy other than that Dizzy is cute. He's barely begun to play. That doesn't make him mafia. I am not giving him town credit for it either. He said he has things going on, and I will take that at face value. From a pure POE standpoint, the prospect of chopping Dizzy makes me shrug. I would prefer a greater degree of inspiration than that. Dizzy himself asked for explanations about the votes on him, and I would like to see the voters themselves reply. I think that can go a long way toward clarifying my own perspective of both Dizzy and those who wish to punt Dizzy into the sun.

Creature - I am not exactly "comfortable" with Creature, but I think he has done a decent job to engage since the earlier portion of Day 0. He's a gloomer, but that's on brand. If we view Creature through a lens other than meta, I'd call him a fringe POE prospect trending gradually upward. There's a lot of work to do yet.

falcon45ca - This is the case for which I have the fewest objections or caveats, and I view him with some suspicion of my own. I described my own concerns here. Likewise I haven't identified a specific moment from falcon that makes me feel "good", so both the micro and macro viewpoints aren't great.

DrWilgy - I am torn here. I think there's a case to be made, and I get it. I am not sure I am as moved by it. I find myself wondering if the DrWilgy case has become susceptible to misinterpretation and heightened bias. Wilgy himself struggles with the suspicion heaped upon him, first from Mac. Others have responded in kind to Wilgy's suspicion of them, Seanzie most recently. These kinds of mutual "this way that you're treating me is the wrong way" interactions tend to be the most vulnerable to bias. I am not sure that's happening here, but it's the dissonance I encounter when I think about Wilgy as a prospective chop. I don't think his posts are just terrible on their own terms. They exist.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kinda think we should make Wilgy a wagon again.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I'm unsure my guy. If this wasn't a doctor patient relationship, I'd say this screams opportunism.

P sure Wilgy is just outed. Oppotunism my butt. There is nothing opportunitic about my play around Wilgy. He has constantly been a major concern of mine and isn't currently a wagon. This thought is fake. Wilgy woooooolfy

How do you think a town Wilgy would be most likely to handle your vote here?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

General question for anyone:

If you had to name four solid town reads as of right this moment, who are they?

Thanks, by the way, to those that answered this prompt. I will do the same: Boquise, Mac, Alison, and lucy.

[robyn]

General question for anyone:

If you had to name four solid town reads as of right this moment, who are they?

Thanks, by the way, to those that answered this prompt. I will do the same: Boquise, Mac, Alison, and lucy.

These are the strongest players in the game (excluding myself), do you have any concerns about that? and if all of you were town, would G-man re rand roles?

[Seanzie]

Kinda think we should make Wilgy a wagon again.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I'm unsure my guy. If this wasn't a doctor patient relationship, I'd say this screams opportunism.

P sure Wilgy is just outed. Oppotunism my butt. There is nothing opportunitic about my play around Wilgy. He has constantly been a major concern of mine and isn't currently a wagon. This thought is fake. Wilgy woooooolfy

How do you think a town Wilgy would be most likely to handle your vote here?

I'm not completely sure, but I don't think they'd be majorly concerned about it. They usually shrug off things for a while in most games i've seen. Alison made a point that they freaked out about being suspected in an FX situation, and actually after seeing her say that I remember Wilgy did respond to pressure in the TF2 game, but again that was late game when miselims were becoming scarse, so I still feel the reactionary way they've been playing is not in-line with what I expect from town!Wilgy unless they feel the game is at a crucial point, which I don't get the indication that they do.

[Dyslexicon]

I can do three town reads without having read the game, just glanced on a few posts: Lucy, Boq, Creature.

How did I do?

Don't hold me to these when I get to reading, but they will probably be unchanged.

[Dyslexicon]

General question for anyone:

If you had to name four solid town reads as of right this moment, who are they?

Thanks, by the way, to those that answered this prompt. I will do the same: Boquise, Mac, Alison, and lucy.

These are the strongest players in the game (excluding myself), do you have any concerns about that? and if all of you were town, would G-man re rand roles?

I am clearly the strongest player in the game.

I don't at all think, and certainly don't hope, that mods would rerand or disrespect the holy RNG.

[Seanzie]

I can do three town reads without having read the game, just glanced on a few posts: Lucy, Boq, Creature.

How did I do?

Don't hold me to these when I get to reading, but they will probably be unchanged.

It would be good for you to elaborate on Creature as they are in contention.