Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

[RondoDimBuckle]

something tells me that if I'm wrong about Rondo it won't matter lol

What does this mean? >_>

[RondoDimBuckle]

@Dyslexicon Two things

1) What is your favourite kind of burrito
B) What is your game state read?
%) If you had a vig who is gone and why?

@fingersplints and @Marmot same question.

Spoiler: show

(Fingersplints cant say me just calling it ahead of time)

1) I don’t usually eat burritos. I like things spicy and with lots of cheese though
B) only read my mentions so far, so nothing sticking out to me
%) I actually wouldn’t have picked you lol My gut would say falcon but as they are leading right now that would be a waste.
Probably Alison. I don’t think I’m particularly good at reading her so she can fool me easily into thinking she is town with her usual analytical tone. Maybe someone else I can’t read well. Like wilgy or marmot whose game style is difficult for me to read

Really? I thought you would be super pissed about our last game still. Glad to see its all G

Also dont eat burritos? [VOTE: Fingersplints ] aubergine

I assume you're not going to read the full game?

I dont hate the Alison call personally but that is just bias I think. Marmot cant be that bad? He wants people to vote for him

[robyn]

why do you have that feeling of disquiet? @EnderWiggin

[RondoDimBuckle]

@RondoDimBuckle, as I look over your posts, I find myself pretty confounded to follow the threads of your reads. That doesn't mean there isn't a thread, or that there isn't a method to your madness -- but if there's a method I cannot parse it. Would you be able to put together a reads list of some kind (with or without explanations, whatever, just some kind of sorting of the roster)?

Well thank you, I think most of the method is to weird out and let Mac/Ender deal with the flakk and then watch them for funny business. I dont give read lists day one because my reads are garbage. Like Lucy I prefer to wait till day 2/3 when I have some info. I just like to stir up the pool.

If you really want my read list though. Its in my ISO

[RondoDimBuckle]

@RondoDimBuckle, as I look over your posts, I find myself pretty confounded to follow the threads of your reads. That doesn't mean there isn't a thread, or that there isn't a method to your madness -- but if there's a method I cannot parse it. Would you be able to put together a reads list of some kind (with or without explanations, whatever, just some kind of sorting of the roster)?

Well thank you, I think most of the method is to weird out and let Mac/Ender deal with the flakk and then watch them for funny business. I dont give read lists day one because my reads are garbage. Like Lucy I prefer to wait till day 2/3 when I have some info. I just like to stir up the pool.

If you really want my read list though. Its in my ISO

Oh, I forgot [VOTE: JJJ ] aubergine

[RondoDimBuckle]

Ok I will start playing now

You werent playing before?

[RondoDimBuckle]

I think my single most confident read in the game right now is that Boquise is town.

Rondo let's talk about your vote. Maybe make that a point of emphasis whenever you answer my previous prod about your reads

Wait, which vote?

[RondoDimBuckle]

Ftr my original wolflean was RondoDimBuckle because in another he waited until the end of day 1 to post and seemed pretty challenging the status quo as opposed to this game where it felt like he was more chill (?).

That game was an anomaly. I wanted to try out a new strat when interacting with twilight. It should have spewed me town but people still suspected me. I might do it again, but this is my normal play. You can check with Mac on that for sure or just look through my other games that arent that insanity

[EnderWiggin]

why do you have that feeling of disquiet? @EnderWiggin

It's like...

Gamestate feels like something's off with it.

But I have townreads on a chunk of the more active people.

But it doesn't feel like wolves are being boxed in right now.

D1 gamestate reads are bad, I know, but I just feel like I'm missing something and idk who I'm missing.

[EnderWiggin]

But it's not Mac, before you say. I have a really dumb reason to think he's town but it's a reason I legit believe sooooo I can only get burned on it.

[RondoDimBuckle]

@Dyslexicon Two things

1) What is your favourite kind of burrito
B) What is your game state read?
%) If you had a vig who is gone and why?

@fingersplints and @Marmot same question.

Spoiler: show

(Fingersplints cant say me just calling it ahead of time)

1) Chile Relleno Burrito
B) Burrito
%) Burrito

[VOTE: Marmot ] aubergine

How dare you shoot a harmless innocent burrito? And a Chile one at that?!

[EnderWiggin]

And yes I'm aware I was fingering him for sus before.

I feel like some of the townreads being thrown around are weird/weak for people who should be known to be more difficult to read and idk if I'm just bad at reading them or I'm legit just seeing shrug reads.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Also, [VOTE: Rondo] aubergine as promised

We shoulda done a post cap, how do several of you have 100+ posts already?

My man, appreciate it.

I had to check twice to make sure there wasnt one

[robyn]

why do you have that feeling of disquiet? @EnderWiggin

It's like...

Gamestate feels like something's off with it.

But I have townreads on a chunk of the more active people.

But it doesn't feel like wolves are being boxed in right now.

D1 gamestate reads are bad, I know, but I just feel like I'm missing something and idk who I'm missing.

what did you expect with such a playlist, however the implications of this message is preventing a town core from being made

[EnderWiggin]

So I'm just disquieted. It's like wearing a set of clothes and feeling like they just don't fit properly even though they do. Keep tugging at them, because you can't take them off now you're out in public.

All you can do is tug.

[RondoDimBuckle]

If I had to provide a GTH sorting of the game by a seven-player POE, this is about where I'd fall right now:

Alison
Boquise
lucy
MacDougall
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie
NateTheLesser

---[POE LINE]---

Creature
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
falcon45ca
fingersplints
Marmot

Names within groups aren't ordered. Not every name above the line is a confident one (e.g., Nate is an undeveloped read, but I give him the gut read nod). EnderWiggin is another challenge that I could stand to develop with an ISO.

I think Nate sounds similar to his G1 play tbh
We pretty much have the same poe!

Wait, JJJ why am I town?

Why is nate town?

Why is Ender POE?

[EnderWiggin]

why do you have that feeling of disquiet? @EnderWiggin

It's like...

Gamestate feels like something's off with it.

But I have townreads on a chunk of the more active people.

But it doesn't feel like wolves are being boxed in right now.

D1 gamestate reads are bad, I know, but I just feel like I'm missing something and idk who I'm missing.

what did you expect with such a playlist, however the implications of this message is preventing a town core from being made

Honestly you should never let another player's wishy-washyness affect your ability to make or read a towncore.

It's a collaborative effort between the players in it, not the players outside.

And in this game I am very much a "Outside the towncore" box because I'm not finding a comfortable set.

[EnderWiggin]

If I had to provide a GTH sorting of the game by a seven-player POE, this is about where I'd fall right now:

Alison
Boquise
lucy
MacDougall
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie
NateTheLesser

---[POE LINE]---

Creature
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
falcon45ca
fingersplints
Marmot

Names within groups aren't ordered. Not every name above the line is a confident one (e.g., Nate is an undeveloped read, but I give him the gut read nod). EnderWiggin is another challenge that I could stand to develop with an ISO.

I think Nate sounds similar to his G1 play tbh
We pretty much have the same poe!

Wait, JJJ why am I town?

Why is nate town?

Why is Ender POE?

Hey Rondo.

Why shouldn't I be POE?

[RondoDimBuckle]

I glanced at DrWilgy's ISO and have a firm townread there.

I glanced at falcon's too and don't have a firm townread, but I'm not ready to call him scum yet. I'll probably defer to Mac's read since he's so consistent at reading him.

If Dr Wiggly is town in your estimation what is your read on Seanzie who says he isnt?

[EnderWiggin]

EnderWiggin ISO

Ender has been a read in flux for me, so I wanted to take a closer look. Click spoiler for wall.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I refuse to scumhunt on D0 so enjoy me sitting around memeing and pocketing Rondo

Shrug. Sometimes I feel this way about Day 0 (hunting is apart from the original purpose of Day 0, but people do it anyway), so I don't really hold this against Ender as long as things kick into gear by Day 1. I'm just marking it here for the sake of context.

Spoiler: show

Day 0 has been a pleasant period of introductions and light reading. That’s healthy. Day 1 fast approaches, however, and I would love to solve the game as expediently as possible.

General query to everyone in the thread: how do you feel when I label lucy, Boq, and Seanzie town? Who else should I label town? We need seven, mmkay.

I don't entirely like it.

Because I think one specifically of that list is wolf

Because I think one specifically of that list is wolf

speak now or forever hold your peace

Can I hold it softly or just like, really hug it hard?

I am absolutely fascinated, EnderWiggin. Oh my god. My juices are flowing. I'm sure you'll expand when you're ready in the near future.

...

And that reaction alone makes me half think JJJ is wolf and knows he has a partner in that list.

...

And that reaction alone makes me half think JJJ is wolf and knows he has a partner in that list.

Tell me more. When JJJ was "extra" (see, gang, I am not old, I used the language of the youths), what inspired this perspective?

...

And that reaction alone makes me half think JJJ is wolf and knows he has a partner in that list.

Tell me more. When JJJ was "extra" (see, gang, I am not old, I used the language of the youths), what inspired this perspective?

Wolves, albeit usually not ones of your caliber, have tended to over-exaggerate when someone pinpoints a partner.

That being said, the reason I said "Half" is because I half would expect you to be too experienced to fall for a simpler ploy like that, and you read as mildly sarcastic in your response to me.

But I didn't want to give you that out if you hadn't.

I extracted this full series of posts, as they serve as the first especially game-relevant content Ender had to offer. My initial reaction to this was a positive one. I thought Ender's suggested that I seemed sarcastic read authentically (and I can see how my standard goofball posting can come off as sarcasm). His replies became a bit more flippant, which fits a perception of being subjected to sarcasm. Perhaps that ought to be tempered, because authentically perceiving sarcasm doesn't necessarily preclude the mafia alignment.

Spoiler: show

Hey Nate.

Can I get you to take a look at JJJ's three clears and gimme your opinion on them?

What do you like about Boq or Lucy specifically? Is Seanzie slipping your radar or you just don't think his posts are AI?

A little inquisitiveness never hurt. It led to meaningful content from Nate so that's fine.

Spoiler: show

I have turned into one of those "But how do you really feel" players.

How.

How we feel is important, Ender. Never be afraid to ask how we feel.

How sweet.

But tbh I've already been called out for it:
I don't actually sus your list, I just wanted to see what happened if I insinuated I did.

I think I mostly like Boq/JJJ a s my little town.

I'm wary of trusting Lucy because tone doesn't do a lot for me from chattier players and I don't think she'll struggle with that, my reservation is held until I see her talk about reads.

Falcon is rand but more rand!town so I'll agree with that.

I hold my thoughts on Seanzie.

Rondo is mildly in his townsphere but that's tentative and early so don't trust it.

The previous exchange being relegated to "reaction test" is a bit of a wet fish. The rest of this post is a bit more important to me though for a reason I will share shortly.

Spoiler: show

@RondoDimBuckle, Alison has placed a vote on your head. Please talk about that and thanks

It is a thing she has done . I dont really care too much because I knew it was coming and it makes me happy

Why would someone attacking you make you happy?

Because I am a giant troll and love when I can elicit an emotional reaction from people. Ala, you entering thread and insta voting me. Its predictability is food for the soul. It just makes me happy

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Townie schadenfreude, perhaps.jpeg tbh

It is entirely NAI for Rondo. Rondo is best read on how he positions his wagons and what sus he pushes rather than the trolling he does.

I’m a little concerned about the potential for toxicity. We should avoid using language like “X hates the way I play”. If you have that perception, @RondoDimBuckle, we can and should talk about it. Let’s just be mindful please and thank you

yeah this message is 100% ai indicative, if a stands for age

no way, a mod is a mod, wolf or not

JJJ's approach sorta mirrors his approach in the game I played with him on MU though tbh

Jay is absolutely able to replicate his town-leader-yness as wolf. While his content or detail mileage might vary, I find it hard to believe that Jay can be read on "Is he approaching game as a 'make town collaborate' thing?" given that's almost his trademark from all that people have told me in the past.

no way, a mod is a mod, wolf or not

JJJ's approach sorta mirrors his approach in the game I played with him on MU though tbh

Jay is absolutely able to replicate his town-leader-yness as wolf. While his content or detail mileage might vary, I find it hard to believe that Jay can be read on "Is he approaching game as a 'make town collaborate' thing?" given that's almost his trademark from all that people have told me in the past.

That's fair tbh
JJJ is a null for me right now tbh

I have him as firmly town fwiw.

I want to be clear:
I also have JJJ as town.

I was just saying that "Is he town-leadering" isn't a good approach.

The way I see this game is fairly simple.

Mac and JJJ are both playing to their obvious town power town selves. I think they are very likely just town but even if they are I suspect they are townsiding for now because they are bringing down a lot of unnecessary bad attention if they shove blatantly bad reads down our throat here. So either way their reads are probably going to be good D1.

I am likely going to prioritize hammering on the reads we have in our Venn diagram overlap as those are the most likely to be hits. If we don't get pelts after a bit it will be obvious something is rotten.

As mentioned earlier, I find Boquise, Wilgy and Lucy townie in addition to JJJ and Mac. I am hands off Rondo for now in deference to Mac's read. Nate feels like someone a little out of their depth but trying to do the best he can to be part of the solving which I think is a pretty okay place to be in.

Seanzie has been ~fine. He started off a little weaker than usual but his ISO of me was decent. I wouldn't put him in my town squad but I don't really have interest in a Seanzie exe today.

I interpreted Ender's cryptic approach to Seanzie earlier as a way to fish for reactions with him like he did with JJJ but he hasn't really followed through on that promise which leaves me wondering why he did it. I am also unnerved by how hands-off he is with Rondo, who he knows well and even gave advice on how to read. It's weird that me and Mac have a stronger read on Rondo than the guy who knows him the best.

Loosely, I have a POE pool of Falcon, Creature and Ender. The afks remain null, maybe bump Dizzy a bit higher since he is more shameless about lurking when he is town and feels obligated to try a bit harder as scum.

The fact that I know him best and am not making a read should tell y'all to be more careful.

I actually do think Mac is right for now but Mac's confidence is very strong. I can tell you 100% that Rondo could fake this D1 as wolf, with the caveat that he hasn't wolfed in forum yet and I know he's not 100% confident he can do the same level of fakery first try.

But that being said he's very capable of it irl so benefit of the doubt means I'm wary to trust anything I'm not confident is town indicative of him.

These are the posts that I think caused the initial dissonance leading eventually to me reviewing this ISO in the first place. There's a theme here: Rondo and I are both receiving town reads, sometimes of high confidence, from various sources -- and Ender has been inclined to resist that confidence. I have a little concern that this may reflect a case of "trying to keep the box open", so to speak, and that is something I have observed from mafia with decent frequency over the last couple of years. As my own game has shifted more and more in the direction of pure POE and I have found success in that journey, the necessary mafia resistance is to stall the formation of "town cores".

I will acknowledge that Ender has provided a few town reads himself, however, including on me. That's what I referenced previously. So in this case, if my concern is valid, it would be more centered on Ender's resistance to Rondo town reads.

~~~

Conclusion

This at least allows me to express what's in my head with respect to Ender. I don't think this ISO looks "bad" holistically, but there are some things here worth discussing that Ender can speak of as he desires. If I could summarize my perspective: Ender is doing things and the things are okay. The things don't quite inspire the confidence for me that some others on the roster have inspired to this point.

Hey Jay, why do you emphasise the townread on you as being a mitigating factor when I also have expressed a townread on Rondo?

Why do you think that my resistance to you is offset by that townread when it doesn't do the same for Rondo?

[RondoDimBuckle]

I am considering the exchanges between DrWilgy and Mac, and I have a vague concern.

The overall message of Wilgy’s read on Mac seems to slant positive. Indeed, my impression of that read is: Mac looks town except for his suspicion of me. There’s a resistance to rattling cages in that — one could argue Mac’s cage is being rattled, but only in response to receiving rattling from him. If Wilgy is mafia, here’s the rough translation:

Mac is town, too town for me to fully attack, but I have to at least do something about his correct read on me

I’m not sure I view the hedging as authentic

My friend, when have I ever done this as wolf? If I go after towncore as wolf It's all or nothing, but a half baked turd placed down to shrivel and die.

Especially d1, wouldn't I be more inclined to just give the TR and move on to a LHF?

This read is bad.

Who are the LHF you would go after?

[RondoDimBuckle]

I know it is only day 0 and I know I've not actually seen Jay as scum, but kinda okay calling Jay town right now and not worrying about it for at least like 20 minutes or so.

It is a read.

Werd. What gives me away, Seanzie?

It is a read.

Werd. What gives me away, Seanzie?

I mean, your general approach is helpful, and even though I kinda think you'd do that as either alignment as it would be expected of you, I'll still give marginal townpoints to people townsiding early on even if it is in their wolf range, but your approach to (and around) Lucy looks good, in particular this post:

I play casually every game, even when I Should be competitive. What about you? You seem to be taking this PREEETY serious

Does lucy taking the game PREEETY serious mean something to you?

Something about the combination of snideness, curiosity and pushing the game forward in this post is enough that town bells rang in my head.

Thanks for the answer, Seanzie. No immediate gripes.

All of this sticks out to me as a difference check between JJJ & Sean. Sean gives him a TR, that's hedged w/ "but he'd do it regardless of alignment", and JJJ is cool with that....it reeks, somebody isn't playing w/ straight dice

interesting you frame it this way and not just outright sus of seanzie given your already stated townread on Jay and scumread on Seanzie?

Its at times like these I wish Nanook was in the game to tell me if it is actually a difference check.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Nate, Sean, Marmot



83% chance of at least 1 scum in that lil' group

Care to explain my guy. I will cash in one of my townie points if it helps

[Seanzie]

So I'm just disquieted. It's like wearing a set of clothes and feeling like they just don't fit properly even though they do. Keep tugging at them, because you can't take them off now you're out in public.

All you can do is tug.

How do you feel about the two people holding wagons right now; Creature and Falcon?

[RondoDimBuckle]

Did anything happen?

Is falcon a wagon because he's wolfy or just POE?

I hope we're doing well.

What stops lucy from being wolf who had an outburst of energy D0?

Please tell me what this face means?

[RondoDimBuckle]

[GIF]

what is the significance of those four Creature posts to you

They read like someone who's having trouble engaging in the game. Creature is far more assertive as town, those are pot stirring, wall flower posts

never mind

[EnderWiggin]

So I'm just disquieted. It's like wearing a set of clothes and feeling like they just don't fit properly even though they do. Keep tugging at them, because you can't take them off now you're out in public.

All you can do is tug.

How do you feel about the two people holding wagons right now; Creature and Falcon?

I thought one of them was wolf and I should stick to that tbh.

Who's your top 5 "People to yeet" rn Seanzie?

[EnderWiggin]

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I just remembered thanks to Rondo that I disliked Falcon's Creature push.

[RondoDimBuckle]

*Scribbles down notes*

I believe this is wise.

[VOTE: EnderWiggin] aubergine

more words as to why?

Ender hasn't been particularly engaged in this game but he isnt full wolf range yet. Do you have anything you have to point at specifically that I have missed?

[Seanzie]

So I'm just disquieted. It's like wearing a set of clothes and feeling like they just don't fit properly even though they do. Keep tugging at them, because you can't take them off now you're out in public.

All you can do is tug.

How do you feel about the two people holding wagons right now; Creature and Falcon?

I thought one of them was wolf and I should stick to that tbh.

Who's your top 5 "People to yeet" rn Seanzie?

Can you explain a bit more? "one of them is wolf" isn't much of a take.

I will answer you after you give a satisfactory answer to me. You haven't yet this game, and I don't give to those who only take.

[EnderWiggin]

*Scribbles down notes*

I believe this is wise.

[VOTE: EnderWiggin] aubergine

more words as to why?

Ender hasn't been particularly engaged in this game but he isnt full wolf range yet. Do you have anything you have to point at specifically that I have missed?

Do you wolf read me on my engagement?

[EnderWiggin]

So I'm just disquieted. It's like wearing a set of clothes and feeling like they just don't fit properly even though they do. Keep tugging at them, because you can't take them off now you're out in public.

All you can do is tug.

How do you feel about the two people holding wagons right now; Creature and Falcon?

I thought one of them was wolf and I should stick to that tbh.

Who's your top 5 "People to yeet" rn Seanzie?

Can you explain a bit more? "one of them is wolf" isn't much of a take.

I will answer you after you give a satisfactory answer to me. You haven't yet this game, and I don't give to those who only take.

Explicitly I wolfread Falcon rn.

The "I thought one of them was wolf" was referencing that I was voting for one earlier in Falcon.

I wasn't saying "It's w/v"

I'm saying "Damn I sus Falcon."

[Seanzie]

So I'm just disquieted. It's like wearing a set of clothes and feeling like they just don't fit properly even though they do. Keep tugging at them, because you can't take them off now you're out in public.

All you can do is tug.

How do you feel about the two people holding wagons right now; Creature and Falcon?

I thought one of them was wolf and I should stick to that tbh.

Who's your top 5 "People to yeet" rn Seanzie?

Can you explain a bit more? "one of them is wolf" isn't much of a take.

I will answer you after you give a satisfactory answer to me. You haven't yet this game, and I don't give to those who only take.

Explicitly I wolfread Falcon rn.

The "I thought one of them was wolf" was referencing that I was voting for one earlier in Falcon.

I wasn't saying "It's w/v"

I'm saying "Damn I sus Falcon."

Why?

And what about creature?

[EnderWiggin]

So I'm just disquieted. It's like wearing a set of clothes and feeling like they just don't fit properly even though they do. Keep tugging at them, because you can't take them off now you're out in public.

All you can do is tug.

How do you feel about the two people holding wagons right now; Creature and Falcon?

I thought one of them was wolf and I should stick to that tbh.

Who's your top 5 "People to yeet" rn Seanzie?

Can you explain a bit more? "one of them is wolf" isn't much of a take.

I will answer you after you give a satisfactory answer to me. You haven't yet this game, and I don't give to those who only take.

Explicitly I wolfread Falcon rn.

The "I thought one of them was wolf" was referencing that I was voting for one earlier in Falcon.

I wasn't saying "It's w/v"

I'm saying "Damn I sus Falcon."

Why?

And what about creature?

Creature is a !rand read for me on D1 because he hates engaging.

The push on him mildly makes me wonder if he's just the LHF vote for today tho.

I sus Falcon because his reaction to pressure and his direction was mildly lacklustre, especially since it feels like he just LHF defaulted for his push once there was a wagon on him.

[RondoDimBuckle]

EnderWiggin ISO

Ender has been a read in flux for me, so I wanted to take a closer look. Click spoiler for wall.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I refuse to scumhunt on D0 so enjoy me sitting around memeing and pocketing Rondo

Shrug. Sometimes I feel this way about Day 0 (hunting is apart from the original purpose of Day 0, but people do it anyway), so I don't really hold this against Ender as long as things kick into gear by Day 1. I'm just marking it here for the sake of context.

Spoiler: show

Day 0 has been a pleasant period of introductions and light reading. That’s healthy. Day 1 fast approaches, however, and I would love to solve the game as expediently as possible.

General query to everyone in the thread: how do you feel when I label lucy, Boq, and Seanzie town? Who else should I label town? We need seven, mmkay.

I don't entirely like it.

Because I think one specifically of that list is wolf

Because I think one specifically of that list is wolf

speak now or forever hold your peace

Can I hold it softly or just like, really hug it hard?

I am absolutely fascinated, EnderWiggin. Oh my god. My juices are flowing. I'm sure you'll expand when you're ready in the near future.

...

And that reaction alone makes me half think JJJ is wolf and knows he has a partner in that list.

...

And that reaction alone makes me half think JJJ is wolf and knows he has a partner in that list.

Tell me more. When JJJ was "extra" (see, gang, I am not old, I used the language of the youths), what inspired this perspective?

...

And that reaction alone makes me half think JJJ is wolf and knows he has a partner in that list.

Tell me more. When JJJ was "extra" (see, gang, I am not old, I used the language of the youths), what inspired this perspective?

Wolves, albeit usually not ones of your caliber, have tended to over-exaggerate when someone pinpoints a partner.

That being said, the reason I said "Half" is because I half would expect you to be too experienced to fall for a simpler ploy like that, and you read as mildly sarcastic in your response to me.

But I didn't want to give you that out if you hadn't.

I extracted this full series of posts, as they serve as the first especially game-relevant content Ender had to offer. My initial reaction to this was a positive one. I thought Ender's suggested that I seemed sarcastic read authentically (and I can see how my standard goofball posting can come off as sarcasm). His replies became a bit more flippant, which fits a perception of being subjected to sarcasm. Perhaps that ought to be tempered, because authentically perceiving sarcasm doesn't necessarily preclude the mafia alignment.

Spoiler: show

Hey Nate.

Can I get you to take a look at JJJ's three clears and gimme your opinion on them?

What do you like about Boq or Lucy specifically? Is Seanzie slipping your radar or you just don't think his posts are AI?

A little inquisitiveness never hurt. It led to meaningful content from Nate so that's fine.

Spoiler: show

I have turned into one of those "But how do you really feel" players.

How.

How we feel is important, Ender. Never be afraid to ask how we feel.

How sweet.

But tbh I've already been called out for it:
I don't actually sus your list, I just wanted to see what happened if I insinuated I did.

I think I mostly like Boq/JJJ a s my little town.

I'm wary of trusting Lucy because tone doesn't do a lot for me from chattier players and I don't think she'll struggle with that, my reservation is held until I see her talk about reads.

Falcon is rand but more rand!town so I'll agree with that.

I hold my thoughts on Seanzie.

Rondo is mildly in his townsphere but that's tentative and early so don't trust it.

The previous exchange being relegated to "reaction test" is a bit of a wet fish. The rest of this post is a bit more important to me though for a reason I will share shortly.

Spoiler: show

@RondoDimBuckle, Alison has placed a vote on your head. Please talk about that and thanks

It is a thing she has done . I dont really care too much because I knew it was coming and it makes me happy

Why would someone attacking you make you happy?

Because I am a giant troll and love when I can elicit an emotional reaction from people. Ala, you entering thread and insta voting me. Its predictability is food for the soul. It just makes me happy

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Townie schadenfreude, perhaps.jpeg tbh

It is entirely NAI for Rondo. Rondo is best read on how he positions his wagons and what sus he pushes rather than the trolling he does.

I’m a little concerned about the potential for toxicity. We should avoid using language like “X hates the way I play”. If you have that perception, @RondoDimBuckle, we can and should talk about it. Let’s just be mindful please and thank you

yeah this message is 100% ai indicative, if a stands for age

no way, a mod is a mod, wolf or not

JJJ's approach sorta mirrors his approach in the game I played with him on MU though tbh

Jay is absolutely able to replicate his town-leader-yness as wolf. While his content or detail mileage might vary, I find it hard to believe that Jay can be read on "Is he approaching game as a 'make town collaborate' thing?" given that's almost his trademark from all that people have told me in the past.

no way, a mod is a mod, wolf or not

JJJ's approach sorta mirrors his approach in the game I played with him on MU though tbh

Jay is absolutely able to replicate his town-leader-yness as wolf. While his content or detail mileage might vary, I find it hard to believe that Jay can be read on "Is he approaching game as a 'make town collaborate' thing?" given that's almost his trademark from all that people have told me in the past.

That's fair tbh
JJJ is a null for me right now tbh

I have him as firmly town fwiw.

I want to be clear:
I also have JJJ as town.

I was just saying that "Is he town-leadering" isn't a good approach.

The way I see this game is fairly simple.

Mac and JJJ are both playing to their obvious town power town selves. I think they are very likely just town but even if they are I suspect they are townsiding for now because they are bringing down a lot of unnecessary bad attention if they shove blatantly bad reads down our throat here. So either way their reads are probably going to be good D1.

I am likely going to prioritize hammering on the reads we have in our Venn diagram overlap as those are the most likely to be hits. If we don't get pelts after a bit it will be obvious something is rotten.

As mentioned earlier, I find Boquise, Wilgy and Lucy townie in addition to JJJ and Mac. I am hands off Rondo for now in deference to Mac's read. Nate feels like someone a little out of their depth but trying to do the best he can to be part of the solving which I think is a pretty okay place to be in.

Seanzie has been ~fine. He started off a little weaker than usual but his ISO of me was decent. I wouldn't put him in my town squad but I don't really have interest in a Seanzie exe today.

I interpreted Ender's cryptic approach to Seanzie earlier as a way to fish for reactions with him like he did with JJJ but he hasn't really followed through on that promise which leaves me wondering why he did it. I am also unnerved by how hands-off he is with Rondo, who he knows well and even gave advice on how to read. It's weird that me and Mac have a stronger read on Rondo than the guy who knows him the best.

Loosely, I have a POE pool of Falcon, Creature and Ender. The afks remain null, maybe bump Dizzy a bit higher since he is more shameless about lurking when he is town and feels obligated to try a bit harder as scum.

The fact that I know him best and am not making a read should tell y'all to be more careful.

I actually do think Mac is right for now but Mac's confidence is very strong. I can tell you 100% that Rondo could fake this D1 as wolf, with the caveat that he hasn't wolfed in forum yet and I know he's not 100% confident he can do the same level of fakery first try.

But that being said he's very capable of it irl so benefit of the doubt means I'm wary to trust anything I'm not confident is town indicative of him.

These are the posts that I think caused the initial dissonance leading eventually to me reviewing this ISO in the first place. There's a theme here: Rondo and I are both receiving town reads, sometimes of high confidence, from various sources -- and Ender has been inclined to resist that confidence. I have a little concern that this may reflect a case of "trying to keep the box open", so to speak, and that is something I have observed from mafia with decent frequency over the last couple of years. As my own game has shifted more and more in the direction of pure POE and I have found success in that journey, the necessary mafia resistance is to stall the formation of "town cores".

I will acknowledge that Ender has provided a few town reads himself, however, including on me. That's what I referenced previously. So in this case, if my concern is valid, it would be more centered on Ender's resistance to Rondo town reads.

~~~

Conclusion

This at least allows me to express what's in my head with respect to Ender. I don't think this ISO looks "bad" holistically, but there are some things here worth discussing that Ender can speak of as he desires. If I could summarize my perspective: Ender is doing things and the things are okay. The things don't quite inspire the confidence for me that some others on the roster have inspired to this point.

Let me just step in here after that massive wall post and say. If Ender had just stepped out and given me a free hall pass to townie. I would have snap voted him to oblivion. He is either walking the line of not calling me town and not calling me wolf as a wolf or he is town and he is keeping me in check. Either way I would not say Enders actions towards me have been AI towards wolf. We are at this point in time, failing out saves.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Enderwiggin] aubergine

I kind of don't believe his "something feels off" spiel. For someone who has been "tugging at his clothes", he didn't really seem to have given much recent thought to the two current wagons. I have a hard time thinking someone would have that gamestate read and not be wondering about if the current vote tally is on the right track or not.

[EnderWiggin]

[VOTE: Enderwiggin] aubergine

I kind of don't believe his "something feels off" spiel. For someone who has been "tugging at his clothes", he didn't really seem to have given much recent thought to the two current wagons. I have a hard time thinking someone would have that gamestate read and not be wondering about if the current vote tally is on the right track or not.

I don't believe your questioning line so we can be even stevens.

[EnderWiggin]

Falcon/Seanzie/Deep Wolf something something

[RondoDimBuckle]

I feel good about:

Alison
Boquise
Creature
fingersplints
JaggedJimmyJay
MacDougall

Slightly worried those are the most experienced players here though

That leaves:

Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
falcon45ca
lucy
Marmot
NateTheLesser
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie

Oops that's still a lot

I would say why space this out into two posts but it is something I would totally do.

Do you have any specific leans/reads/biases that you want to share? Or would you like to tell me your favourite car?

[RondoDimBuckle]

I am at a level of disquiet and don't know how to functionally put that in thread.

more words please

[RondoDimBuckle]

Is there a town core yet?

It doesn't look like we're going anywhere.

That's a shame.

Is there a town core yet?

>joins chat >ignores the many @'s

[EnderWiggin]

I am at a level of disquiet and don't know how to functionally put that in thread.

more words please

words words words words words words

[Seanzie]

So I'm just disquieted. It's like wearing a set of clothes and feeling like they just don't fit properly even though they do. Keep tugging at them, because you can't take them off now you're out in public.

All you can do is tug.

How do you feel about the two people holding wagons right now; Creature and Falcon?

I thought one of them was wolf and I should stick to that tbh.

Who's your top 5 "People to yeet" rn Seanzie?

As promised, I will answer you now that you answered me.

My current biggest concerns are you, Wilgy and Falcon with my Falcon thoughts probably needing a rereading as they feel a bit outdated and stale. After that I have a smorgasbord of people who I have had some sus on but aren't really super actively concerned with. Alison I suspected early on, but my thoughts on her have faded a bit, possibly because she hasn't been posting. Creature I kinda see what Jay was saying about them not spamming; they actually have a reasonable number of posts, similar to what I've seen in other games... but they are fading into the background more than I'm used to. Jay is kinda my favorite tinfoil, and I'm actually kinda considering a Jay/Creature team, but this is more the things of tinfoil than anything else. Jay's take on me still seems weird and overly generous though, and I noticed their most recent sort might as well be just based on postcount (sans Nate), which isn't impossible to happen naturally, but perhaps a bit concerning. Marmot also fits in this group as someone who I feel would probably have a different take on me if they were town, but perhaps my ego leads me to believe others are more cognizant of my meta than they truly are. Finally, I thought about voting Dizzy a little while ago, but that really would have just been to pressure him into posting more, not due to a read or wanting him to go over.

[RondoDimBuckle]

But it's not Mac, before you say. I have a really dumb reason to think he's town but it's a reason I legit believe sooooo I can only get burned on it.

You can whisper the reason to me, I wont tell anyone

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Enderwiggin] aubergine

I kind of don't believe his "something feels off" spiel. For someone who has been "tugging at his clothes", he didn't really seem to have given much recent thought to the two current wagons. I have a hard time thinking someone would have that gamestate read and not be wondering about if the current vote tally is on the right track or not.

I don't believe your questioning line so we can be even stevens.

What questioning line?

[RondoDimBuckle]

And yes I'm aware I was fingering him for sus before.

I feel like some of the townreads being thrown around are weird/weak for people who should be known to be more difficult to read and idk if I'm just bad at reading them or I'm legit just seeing shrug reads.

I have had all my reads turned on their heads twice now.

[EnderWiggin]

[VOTE: Enderwiggin] aubergine

I kind of don't believe his "something feels off" spiel. For someone who has been "tugging at his clothes", he didn't really seem to have given much recent thought to the two current wagons. I have a hard time thinking someone would have that gamestate read and not be wondering about if the current vote tally is on the right track or not.

I don't believe your questioning line so we can be even stevens.

What questioning line?

The line of questioning that lead you to believe I wasn't actually disquieted

[EnderWiggin]

It feels like you already had your end read on me before you started it and the whole thing was a process to make it look like you reached it organically.

[RondoDimBuckle]

If I had to provide a GTH sorting of the game by a seven-player POE, this is about where I'd fall right now:

Alison
Boquise
lucy
MacDougall
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie
NateTheLesser

---[POE LINE]---

Creature
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
falcon45ca
fingersplints
Marmot

Names within groups aren't ordered. Not every name above the line is a confident one (e.g., Nate is an undeveloped read, but I give him the gut read nod). EnderWiggin is another challenge that I could stand to develop with an ISO.

I think Nate sounds similar to his G1 play tbh
We pretty much have the same poe!

Wait, JJJ why am I town?

Why is nate town?

Why is Ender POE?

Hey Rondo.

Why shouldn't I be POE?

Not saying you shouldnt. I want to know his reasons behind putting you there besides just putting you there. I think I expand later on you

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Enderwiggin] aubergine

I kind of don't believe his "something feels off" spiel. For someone who has been "tugging at his clothes", he didn't really seem to have given much recent thought to the two current wagons. I have a hard time thinking someone would have that gamestate read and not be wondering about if the current vote tally is on the right track or not.

I don't believe your questioning line so we can be even stevens.

What questioning line?

The line of questioning that lead you to believe I wasn't actually disquieted

If it helps, I didn't believe you were disquieted before I asked you anything.