[TOWN WIN] Lost in Space Mafia

[Seanzie]

when seanzie wakes up i expect an apology tbh

you legit town-confident on Alison? i don't see it. But like we have 1 mis chop, and at this point I am going to need to see your flip to trust you, but like you legit?

[Seanzie]

when seanzie wakes up i expect an apology tbh

you legit town-confident on Alison? i don't see it. But like we have 1 mis chop, and at this point I am going to need to see your flip to trust you, but like you legit?

[Alison]

I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.

You don't understand how Mac changed on Fext, and that is telling.

Would you mind doing me a favor and pretending like Mac is scum and I'm right, and letting me know how such a world would look?

Then let's be clear.

You tell me, in simple 4th grader terms, how you think Mac's read/treatment on Fext changed. Then you explain why this contradicts something I've said, or some characterization I've given on the situation.

In a scenario where Mac is scum, then I believe that the way he has treated Fext - ie. townreading Fext but leaving his vote on Fext anyway - is most likely because he is playing mind games. I believe that this action does not benefit him as scum. Ergo, he is doing it to get townread by people who know it doesn't benefit him as scum, like me. For obvious reasons, I don't think Mac is mafia with you or NAA. I know I'm town, and the way he went after Creature for slanking through the day suggests that they are not partnered. (Specifically, I think a mafia Mac with Creature partner wouldn't want to draw even more attention to his partner when he - that is, Creature - is already under pressure. He might be bussing Creature, but if that was his intent he wouldn't have gotten stuck in the reads trying to argue with and case you - mafia Mac busses very confidently and violently.)

So, in this world, I think he's most likely scum with one of Wilgy or Falcon.

[Alison]

I have to go do other things. I'll be back later.

[Seanzie]

I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.

You don't understand how Mac changed on Fext, and that is telling.

Would you mind doing me a favor and pretending like Mac is scum and I'm right, and letting me know how such a world would look?

Then let's be clear.

You tell me, in simple 4th grader terms, how you think Mac's read/treatment on Fext changed. Then you explain why this contradicts something I've said, or some characterization I've given on the situation.

In a scenario where Mac is scum, then I believe that the way he has treated Fext - ie. townreading Fext but leaving his vote on Fext anyway - is most likely because he is playing mind games. I believe that this action does not benefit him as scum. Ergo, he is doing it to get townread by people who know it doesn't benefit him as scum, like me. For obvious reasons, I don't think Mac is mafia with you or NAA. I know I'm town, and the way he went after Creature for slanking through the day suggests that they are not partnered. (Specifically, I think a mafia Mac with Creature partner wouldn't want to draw even more attention to his partner when he - that is, Creature - is already under pressure. He might be bussing Creature, but if that was his intent he wouldn't have gotten stuck in the reads trying to argue with and case you - mafia Mac busses very confidently and violently.)

So, in this world, I think he's most likely scum with one of Wilgy or Falcon.

I think you "mind games" crap is BS. Look at the thread. Look at how Mac treated Fext.

you refusing to see it...

[Seanzie]

maybe I'm just drained of all will to process things so just ask someone else for a 2nd opinion

This is such a weird thing for someone who has been fighting me tooth and nail for hours. This is scum.

[Alison]

I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.

You don't understand how Mac changed on Fext, and that is telling.

Would you mind doing me a favor and pretending like Mac is scum and I'm right, and letting me know how such a world would look?

Then let's be clear.

You tell me, in simple 4th grader terms, how you think Mac's read/treatment on Fext changed. Then you explain why this contradicts something I've said, or some characterization I've given on the situation.

In a scenario where Mac is scum, then I believe that the way he has treated Fext - ie. townreading Fext but leaving his vote on Fext anyway - is most likely because he is playing mind games. I believe that this action does not benefit him as scum. Ergo, he is doing it to get townread by people who know it doesn't benefit him as scum, like me. For obvious reasons, I don't think Mac is mafia with you or NAA. I know I'm town, and the way he went after Creature for slanking through the day suggests that they are not partnered. (Specifically, I think a mafia Mac with Creature partner wouldn't want to draw even more attention to his partner when he - that is, Creature - is already under pressure. He might be bussing Creature, but if that was his intent he wouldn't have gotten stuck in the reads trying to argue with and case you - mafia Mac busses very confidently and violently.)

So, in this world, I think he's most likely scum with one of Wilgy or Falcon.

I think you "mind games" crap is BS. Look at the thread. Look at how Mac treated Fext.

you refusing to see it...

What's your theory?

Let's say Mac is mafia. What does he stand to gain by doing this to Fext?

You've said that if he's mafia he'd see Fext as being really pure - okay, why not shield the obvtown pure person then?

You've said that you thought he was caught by surprise and reacted in a bad way. Caught by surprise by what? It's an asynchronous forum game and he can take as much time to think about his post as he likes. Why would his kneejerk reaction to an unexpected bout of townieness, as mafia, be to townread them and then refuse to take the vote away?

I'm looking at the thread. What am I supposed to be seeing here?

[MacDougall]

maybe I'm just drained of all will to process things so just ask someone else for a 2nd opinion

This is such a weird thing for someone who has been fighting me tooth and nail for hours. This is scum.

you just provided the literal explanation for my action and

I'm just done with u tbh. Do your thing Seanzie.

[Seanzie]

I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.

You don't understand how Mac changed on Fext, and that is telling.

Would you mind doing me a favor and pretending like Mac is scum and I'm right, and letting me know how such a world would look?

Then let's be clear.

You tell me, in simple 4th grader terms, how you think Mac's read/treatment on Fext changed. Then you explain why this contradicts something I've said, or some characterization I've given on the situation.

In a scenario where Mac is scum, then I believe that the way he has treated Fext - ie. townreading Fext but leaving his vote on Fext anyway - is most likely because he is playing mind games. I believe that this action does not benefit him as scum. Ergo, he is doing it to get townread by people who know it doesn't benefit him as scum, like me. For obvious reasons, I don't think Mac is mafia with you or NAA. I know I'm town, and the way he went after Creature for slanking through the day suggests that they are not partnered. (Specifically, I think a mafia Mac with Creature partner wouldn't want to draw even more attention to his partner when he - that is, Creature - is already under pressure. He might be bussing Creature, but if that was his intent he wouldn't have gotten stuck in the reads trying to argue with and case you - mafia Mac busses very confidently and violently.)

So, in this world, I think he's most likely scum with one of Wilgy or Falcon.

I think you "mind games" crap is BS. Look at the thread. Look at how Mac treated Fext.

you refusing to see it...

What's your theory?

Let's say Mac is mafia. What does he stand to gain by doing this to Fext?

You've said that if he's mafia he'd see Fext as being really pure - okay, why not shield the obvtown pure person then?

You've said that you thought he was caught by surprise and reacted in a bad way. Caught by surprise by what? It's an asynchronous forum game and he can take as much time to think about his post as he likes. Why would his kneejerk reaction to an unexpected bout of townieness, as mafia, be to townread them and then refuse to take the vote away?

I'm looking at the thread. What am I supposed to be seeing here?

It's really not that hard. You have all the pieces. Put it together and convince me it isn't a read you legit took this long to come to.

[MacDougall]

Mac: 6 hours of Seanzie pain
Seanzie: Look at this thing that means nothing
Mac: I'm tired and my brain hurts because I've been at this with you for 6 hours
Seanzie: But you've been doing this with me for 6 hours so you're scum
Mac:

[Seanzie]

Mac: 6 hours of Seanzie pain
Seanzie: Look at this thing that means nothing
Mac: I'm tired and my brain hurts because I've been at this with you for 6 hours
Seanzie: But you've been doing this with me for 6 hours so you're scum
Mac:

Then you're okay with an Alsion flip if you get to say "I told you so" right?

[MacDougall]

Mac: 6 hours of Seanzie pain
Seanzie: Look at this thing that means nothing
Mac: I'm tired and my brain hurts because I've been at this with you for 6 hours
Seanzie: But you've been doing this with me for 6 hours so you're scum
Mac:

Then you're okay with an Alsion flip if you get to say "I told you so" right?

Ask me tomorrow after I have decompressed

[Seanzie]

I kinda think I might be wrong about one of Mac or Aiison. Like part of me just wants to be the solve, but meh...

[MacDougall]

I kinda think I might be wrong about one of Mac or Aiison. Like part of me just wants to be the solve, but meh...

why not both.gif

[Seanzie]

I kinda think I might be wrong about one of Mac or Aiison. Like part of me just wants to be the solve, but meh...

why not both.gif

Convince me on Alison then. Plz.

[Seanzie]

Mac: 6 hours of Seanzie pain
Seanzie: Look at this thing that means nothing
Mac: I'm tired and my brain hurts because I've been at this with you for 6 hours
Seanzie: But you've been doing this with me for 6 hours so you're scum
Mac:

Then you're okay with an Alsion flip if you get to say "I told you so" right?

Ask me tomorrow after I have decompressed

It is morning. Why are you talking about tomorrow?

[Seanzie]

Lol, it should be clear via considering timezones that Mac does not want me around right now. Super duper scum indicative.

[MacDougall]

tomorrow after I have decompressed

me where it is night

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

tomorrow after I have decompressed

me where it is night

[Seanzie]

Did I win the argument? I kinda feel like I won the argument.

Not that this makes me towny in it's own right, but yeah, kinda feel good about it.

[MacDougall]

I really don't know what I'm supposed to be seeing with this Alison is mafia dealio. She seems squarely like regular old Alison. I've tried to see what you're saying and the best I can get to is like maybe she shouldn't be townreading me so much but like I also expect that if Creature flips town she will probably just try to bury me tomorrow. So here's hoping he doesn't.

[Creature]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[DrWilgy]

I also forget opinions I had too lol.

Not sure how I manage to play mafia but here we are.

I'll just chime in and thank ye kindly that I ain't the only feller

[falcon45ca]

Yeah, going thru Creatures ISO again, and I'm fine with their flip.


Creature/Alison chuck wagon races? Let's do it

[DrWilgy]

I reckon I'm about half caught up through the tomfoolery of last night. This charade around sheriff Mac is still silly. The only three that'd off our ranch hand Lime Coke are Creature, NAA, and Seanzie.

[falcon45ca]

I reckon I'm about half caught up through the tomfoolery of last night. This charade around sheriff Mac is still silly. The only three that'd off our ranch hand Lime Coke are Creature, NAA, and Seanzie.

Yeah, I'm not convinced the LC kill comes from Alison.

[falcon45ca]

The amount of despair in this thread after 1 mislynch is ridiculous. Anyone who's got a throw in the towel, town can't win, if it's so and so then gg...garbage. All of that is sus.


I've been noting that attitude from NAA, Creature & Mac

[Seanzie]

I reckon I'm about half caught up through the tomfoolery of last night. This charade around sheriff Mac is still silly. The only three that'd off our ranch hand Lime Coke are Creature, NAA, and Seanzie.

Yeah, I'm not convinced the LC kill comes from Alison.

If Mac/Alison is the scumteam, who would they kill?

[Seanzie]

I reckon I'm about half caught up through the tomfoolery of last night. This charade around sheriff Mac is still silly. The only three that'd off our ranch hand Lime Coke are Creature, NAA, and Seanzie.

Same question to you. Who would Mac/Alison kill?

[Creature]

The LC kill isn't that farfetched. He could pretty much easily post himself out from a mislynch and was actually trying to solve the game. I'd only put Alison and Mac as better kills if they were town.

[Creature]

NK analysis is most of the times terrible though considering wolves look mostly to eliminate the active and/or strong town voices.

[Creature]

The amount of despair in this thread after 1 mislynch is ridiculous.

Yah but I'm on the line of being mislynched. So I'm considering this LyLo already.

[NotAnAxehole]

The amount of despair in this thread after 1 mislynch is ridiculous. Anyone who's got a throw in the towel, town can't win, if it's so and so then gg...garbage. All of that is sus.


I've been noting that attitude from NAA, Creature & Mac

I think this shows a complete lack of understanding for how scum sided 7v2 is, especially if you miss and no firm conclusion is drawn from it.

But yeah, I told you yesterday didn't I? A Fext kill does nothing towards advancing people's understanding of the game. This is actually probably the case more often than not, and people who swear to the "information kill" are probably not valuing "informative" correctly. As in, informing my opinion of the game isn't a recipe for success in mafia, especially at the cost of a miss... Scum can either just kill you, or twist the logic in another way that makes sense that you'll buy into as a player who looks for that type of reasoning.

Now, some people killed Fext because he was "scummy"... Which, yikes.

[NotAnAxehole]

The amount of despair in this thread after 1 mislynch is ridiculous.

Yah but I'm on the line of being mislynched. So I'm considering this LyLo already.

This is the correct mentality to have, Falcon is coming at the game from the perspective of someone who has 3 kills... Though this is probably the wrong mentality even for him because even though he is unlikely to die, there's nothing indicating as of now that his top 3 reads are going to be killed.

[NotAnAxehole]

I reckon I'm about half caught up through the tomfoolery of last night. This charade around sheriff Mac is still silly. The only three that'd off our ranch hand Lime Coke are Creature, NAA, and Seanzie.

You're right, I would kill Lime Coke if I were mafia in this situation. I think it's in everyone's best interest to kill Lime Coke at night in this situation because there's a very high probability that he enters the day being confirmed town. Also, killing Lime Coke closes the door to some discussions over what happened yesterday.

Though, playing devil's advocate to my own argument, if my goal is to get Alison killed, Lime Coke could reasonably be turned in that direction after the Fext flip + it's unclear what I would assume about Alison's read on Lime Coke, is it solid, or is it fabricated?

ALSO, I don't push Alison if I'm mafia. Or at the very least, I don't consider pushing Alison to be a good idea for mafia... Every play is correct some % of the time.

[Seanzie]

We should probably all vote Alison

[Seanzie]

well... except maybe Alison

[Seanzie]

but everyone else, including her scum partner.

[NotAnAxehole]

Honestly, Alison & Mac have played a phenomenal wolf game. Live through D1, pocket the townies you need for votes, kill obvious town who risks having a voice. Open wolf to people who you can't pocket, because they don't matter.

[Seanzie]

Honestly, Alison & Mac have played a phenomenal wolf game. Live through D1, pocket the townies you need for votes, kill obvious town who risks having a voice. Open wolf to people who you can't pocket, because they don't matter.

Meh, they completely dropped off D1 after I hardpushed Fext.

But yeah, otherwise they played well.

[NotAnAxehole]

Honestly, Alison & Mac have played a phenomenal wolf game. Live through D1, pocket the townies you need for votes, kill obvious town who risks having a voice. Open wolf to people who you can't pocket, because they don't matter.

Meh, they completely dropped off D1 after I hardpushed Fext.

But yeah, otherwise they played well.

They didn't have to push him, they just needed a tunneling townie to see the case, and take over.

[falcon45ca]

The amount of despair in this thread after 1 mislynch is ridiculous. Anyone who's got a throw in the towel, town can't win, if it's so and so then gg...garbage. All of that is sus.


I've been noting that attitude from NAA, Creature & Mac

I think this shows a complete lack of understanding for how scum sided 7v2 is, especially if you miss and no firm conclusion is drawn from it.

But yeah, I told you yesterday didn't I? A Fext kill does nothing towards advancing people's understanding of the game. This is actually probably the case more often than not, and people who swear to the "information kill" are probably not valuing "informative" correctly. As in, informing my opinion of the game isn't a recipe for success in mafia, especially at the cost of a miss... Scum can either just kill you, or twist the logic in another way that makes sense that you'll buy into as a player who looks for that type of reasoning.

Now, some people killed Fext because he was "scummy"... Which, yikes.

It's less than ideal, but I refuse to belive the game is lost simply cuz town isnt batting a thousand.

All that attitude does is serve to make it difficult for town to find each other

[falcon45ca]

Honestly, Alison & Mac have played a phenomenal wolf game. Live through D1, pocket the townies you need for votes, kill obvious town who risks having a voice. Open wolf to people who you can't pocket, because they don't matter.

Do you have a world where one of or both Mac/Alison aren't scum?

[NotAnAxehole]

The amount of despair in this thread after 1 mislynch is ridiculous. Anyone who's got a throw in the towel, town can't win, if it's so and so then gg...garbage. All of that is sus.


I've been noting that attitude from NAA, Creature & Mac

I think this shows a complete lack of understanding for how scum sided 7v2 is, especially if you miss and no firm conclusion is drawn from it.

But yeah, I told you yesterday didn't I? A Fext kill does nothing towards advancing people's understanding of the game. This is actually probably the case more often than not, and people who swear to the "information kill" are probably not valuing "informative" correctly. As in, informing my opinion of the game isn't a recipe for success in mafia, especially at the cost of a miss... Scum can either just kill you, or twist the logic in another way that makes sense that you'll buy into as a player who looks for that type of reasoning.

Now, some people killed Fext because he was "scummy"... Which, yikes.

It's less than ideal, but I refuse to belive the game is lost simply cuz town isnt batting a thousand.

All that attitude does is serve to make it difficult for town to find each other

Alison is the vote today, if you thought Alison was the vote yesterday, you should be doubled down on that today because the evidence which prompted that line has been revealed.

[falcon45ca]

We should probably all vote Alison

What happens if she's green? How do you read game events in that scenario?

[falcon45ca]

The amount of despair in this thread after 1 mislynch is ridiculous. Anyone who's got a throw in the towel, town can't win, if it's so and so then gg...garbage. All of that is sus.


I've been noting that attitude from NAA, Creature & Mac

I think this shows a complete lack of understanding for how scum sided 7v2 is, especially if you miss and no firm conclusion is drawn from it.

But yeah, I told you yesterday didn't I? A Fext kill does nothing towards advancing people's understanding of the game. This is actually probably the case more often than not, and people who swear to the "information kill" are probably not valuing "informative" correctly. As in, informing my opinion of the game isn't a recipe for success in mafia, especially at the cost of a miss... Scum can either just kill you, or twist the logic in another way that makes sense that you'll buy into as a player who looks for that type of reasoning.

Now, some people killed Fext because he was "scummy"... Which, yikes.

It's less than ideal, but I refuse to belive the game is lost simply cuz town isnt batting a thousand.

All that attitude does is serve to make it difficult for town to find each other

Alison is the vote today, if you thought Alison was the vote yesterday, you should be doubled down on that today because the evidence which prompted that line has been revealed.

I'm fine w/ flipping Alison, what makes you think I'm not?


[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

[NotAnAxehole]

Honestly, Alison & Mac have played a phenomenal wolf game. Live through D1, pocket the townies you need for votes, kill obvious town who risks having a voice. Open wolf to people who you can't pocket, because they don't matter.

Do you have a world where one of or both Mac/Alison aren't scum?

Alison/Creature
Mac/Creature

It's unlikely though because 1) both are implicitly trying to get creature killed... An argument can be made that Alison is pushing me, but really, does anyone feel the pressure of a town!Alison push coming my way?

Alison & Mac have no world view other than someone in the game must be mafia, and oh by the way "our town reads are probably more like null reads that we'll have to rescind"

If you need evidence of where Mac posts that he's only town reading people because other people are town reading them, you can go find it yourself.

If you need evidence to see how Alison doesn't care who dies, you can go find that yourself. She's just like randomly bundling people together to make blanket statements like "These players don't care about mafia" ... "These players are always right" ... "These players are the scummiest in the game, because the plot demands that they must be"

Remember when I said on D1 that Alison's reads didn't make sense?

She had 2 hard scum reads
3 Null reads
1 wavering town read
1 hard town read

Do you see how the top 3 rows of that are incompatible? It's not any better today.

[NotAnAxehole]

@Creature remember to move your vote onto Alison.

[falcon45ca]

Honestly, Alison & Mac have played a phenomenal wolf game. Live through D1, pocket the townies you need for votes, kill obvious town who risks having a voice. Open wolf to people who you can't pocket, because they don't matter.

Do you have a world where one of or both Mac/Alison aren't scum?

Alison/Creature
Mac/Creature

It's unlikely though because 1) both are implicitly trying to get creature killed... An argument can be made that Alison is pushing me, but really, does anyone feel the pressure of a town!Alison push coming my way?

Alison & Mac have no world view other than someone in the game must be mafia, and oh by the way "our town reads are probably more like null reads that we'll have to rescind"

If you need evidence of where Mac posts that he's only town reading people because other people are town reading them, you can go find it yourself.

If you need evidence to see how Alison doesn't care who dies, you can go find that yourself. She's just like randomly bundling people together to make blanket statements like "These players don't care about mafia" ... "These players are always right" ... "These players are the scummiest in the game, because the plot demands that they must be"

Remember when I said on D1 that Alison's reads didn't make sense?

She had 2 hard scum reads
3 Null reads
1 wavering town read
1 hard town read

Do you see how the top 3 rows of that are incompatible? It's not any better today.

We're not reading the game all that differently IMO.


Creature, Alison, Mac


I'm fine w/ any of these 3

[MacDougall]

Honestly, Alison & Mac have played a phenomenal wolf game. Live through D1, pocket the townies you need for votes, kill obvious town who risks having a voice. Open wolf to people who you can't pocket, because they don't matter.

Do you have a world where one of or both Mac/Alison aren't scum?

Alison/Creature
Mac/Creature

It's unlikely though because 1) both are implicitly trying to get creature killed... An argument can be made that Alison is pushing me, but really, does anyone feel the pressure of a town!Alison push coming my way?

Alison & Mac have no world view other than someone in the game must be mafia, and oh by the way "our town reads are probably more like null reads that we'll have to rescind"

If you need evidence of where Mac posts that he's only town reading people because other people are town reading them, you can go find it yourself.

If you need evidence to see how Alison doesn't care who dies, you can go find that yourself. She's just like randomly bundling people together to make blanket statements like "These players don't care about mafia" ... "These players are always right" ... "These players are the scummiest in the game, because the plot demands that they must be"

Remember when I said on D1 that Alison's reads didn't make sense?

She had 2 hard scum reads
3 Null reads
1 wavering town read
1 hard town read

Do you see how the top 3 rows of that are incompatible? It's not any better today.

We're not reading the game all that differently IMO.


Creature, Alison, Mac


I'm fine w/ any of these 3

I don't really like how you went from a completely different worldview to this one predicated on "I dont like the doomsday shit" or whatever. Like your only actual arguments I can see being applied to me but where have Creature or Alison done what's required for this? It just feels like you're trying to appease whoever seems to be in charge of the gamestate at any given time. When it looked like I was in charge you were pushing my worldview, I go to sleep and Seanzie/NAA have some thread control without me fighting for it and you just switch to theirs?

Based on what you're griping about (which is demonstrably NAI at best) you should be voting for me anyway.