Team Fortress Mafia [END]

[Dolby]

I watched Dizzy last night, anyone wanna guess who targeted him?

you should probs claim it 24 hours in if it's just 1 person

that will allow time for discussion

not me though I'm lazy

[sig]

also quick note my caps key is messed up so if it seems like I"m screaming probably not. Unless I am then I'll add the proper emoji

[Marmot]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

[Lime Coke]

@falcon45ca

When you get on let me know your full thought process on Gavial.

I feel I've outlined my feelings on Gav's slot pretty clearly. Do you have a specific question in mind?


I'd put Gav at 72% scum

My thing is that Gavial's mafia game is that his viewpoint is zoned in way more, as in we saw him just tunnel the hell out of Mac during our last game, and I remember him tunneling Alison all game in Baby Mafia.

I didn't keep up with the rest of the game after I died, how was he during the rest of the game when he was mafia? Did he give dichotomies like he's doing this game during Akemi Mafia?

who are your top town?

Nanook, Falcon, LP would be most confident townreads.
Everyone else I've listed on my townlist is slightly below but I would not be voting today or any time soon.

Why those three?
What do you think of Falcon voting off the wagons?

Nanook, while low efforting, is giving something to work with and trying to vote according to how he feels. Also when I gave my first townlist I was thinking of putting him on it, but was afraid of pulling the trigger too early, but then he put himself on top of the list for me and I decided "Sure, I'll accept that" and I'm keeping him there the rest of the game because it's funny and would be amazing if he is indeed town.

Falcon because of posts like #649 where it's a grammatical microread that I've seen him do before as town, and I feel as though that would be difficult as fuck to simulate as mafia even with practice.

LP just overall attempting to solve and trying to figure out what the best vote is for town that actually provides something for the game. Details in reads are pretty good. Responses to pressure were fine as well, nothing over the top, and just continued to play.

[sig]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

Yea I'd hold it for a hot second.

[LinearPoint]

It just seemed a rather 180 turn around from your catchup to a hard assault as soon as a little bit of backup came.
Whihc to me indicates you were afraid just pushing me on your own would be bad.
I also saw you put me, Sabie, and Falcon as the Mafia team which seems weird since I was pushing both Sabie and Falcon a lot yesterday. I don't really think there is ever a world where pushing 2 busses day 1 is a play any Mafia takes.

[LinearPoint]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

I like Paranoia and all, but I think Mafia already know which of them did the kill, so not like the others who didn't kill would spew from pressure no?

[Lime Coke]

@falcon45ca

When you get on let me know your full thought process on Gavial.

I feel I've outlined my feelings on Gav's slot pretty clearly. Do you have a specific question in mind?


I'd put Gav at 72% scum

My thing is that Gavial's mafia game is that his viewpoint is zoned in way more, as in we saw him just tunnel the hell out of Mac during our last game, and I remember him tunneling Alison all game in Baby Mafia.

I didn't keep up with the rest of the game after I died, how was he during the rest of the game when he was mafia? Did he give dichotomies like he's doing this game during Akemi Mafia?

who are your top town?

Nanook, Falcon, LP would be most confident townreads.
Everyone else I've listed on my townlist is slightly below but I would not be voting today or any time soon.

Why those three?
What do you think of Falcon voting off the wagons?

Nanook, while low efforting, is giving something to work with and trying to vote according to how he feels. Also when I gave my first townlist I was thinking of putting him on it, but was afraid of pulling the trigger too early, but then he put himself on top of the list for me and I decided "Sure, I'll accept that" and I'm keeping him there the rest of the game because it's funny and would be amazing if he is indeed town.

Falcon because of posts like #649 where it's a grammatical microread that I've seen him do before as town, and I feel as though that would be difficult as fuck to simulate as mafia even with practice.

LP just overall attempting to solve and trying to figure out what the best vote is for town that actually provides something for the game. Details in reads are pretty good. Responses to pressure were fine as well, nothing over the top, and just continued to play.

@sig

I didn't answer the second question and I just looked to see who he voted.

I'm not hating the move? He tries to make a threadstate read based on how the Sabie wagon formed in terms of speed so can see him being paranoid over the wagon being on a town.

[sig]

Spoiler: show

@falcon45ca

When you get on let me know your full thought process on Gavial.

I feel I've outlined my feelings on Gav's slot pretty clearly. Do you have a specific question in mind?


I'd put Gav at 72% scum

My thing is that Gavial's mafia game is that his viewpoint is zoned in way more, as in we saw him just tunnel the hell out of Mac during our last game, and I remember him tunneling Alison all game in Baby Mafia.

I didn't keep up with the rest of the game after I died, how was he during the rest of the game when he was mafia? Did he give dichotomies like he's doing this game during Akemi Mafia?

who are your top town?

Nanook, Falcon, LP would be most confident townreads.
Everyone else I've listed on my townlist is slightly below but I would not be voting today or any time soon.

Why those three?
What do you think of Falcon voting off the wagons?

Nanook, while low efforting, is giving something to work with and trying to vote according to how he feels. Also when I gave my first townlist I was thinking of putting him on it, but was afraid of pulling the trigger too early, but then he put himself on top of the list for me and I decided "Sure, I'll accept that" and I'm keeping him there the rest of the game because it's funny and would be amazing if he is indeed town.

Falcon because of posts like #649 where it's a grammatical microread that I've seen him do before as town, and I feel as though that would be difficult as fuck to simulate as mafia even with practice.

LP just overall attempting to solve and trying to figure out what the best vote is for town that actually provides something for the game. Details in reads are pretty good. Responses to pressure were fine as well, nothing over the top, and just continued to play.

Okay, I gotta review LP myself.

Nanook 50/50 hes here but not very high effort, then again neither am I so who can judge that.

Falcon I don't know the meta on grammar, but it would be silly if you were both mafia to lie about that, so I'll take it at face value, but not a fan that he jumped over to me. NOW (on purpose caps ) one could say just OMGUS to everyone. But, I'd counter with falcon by saying he flipflopped back and forth then settled on me late when I had no chance of getting lynched letting him stay off the major wagons. Also he's well aware of how I'm a big D1/2 mislynch.
\
Not enough to lynch him off of, but I"d not top 3 him

[sig]

It just seemed a rather 180 turn around from your catchup to a hard assault as soon as a little bit of backup came.
Whihc to me indicates you were afraid just pushing me on your own would be bad.
I also saw you put me, Sabie, and Falcon as the Mafia team which seems weird since I was pushing both Sabie and Falcon a lot yesterday. I don't really think there is ever a world where pushing 2 busses day 1 is a play any Mafia takes.

Okay, I could see why you'd think that, but I'd counter as I did. So really think that's a wash. I'd not say I'm ever afraid to be a solo push I'll yammer away and get ignored if I really want to tunnel more so that I was reading up and like i said not a fan of the whole vote setting upper thing. Now I do still need to ISO you, which I'll probably do tomorrow/maybe next day.

for the last point I guess it could be more unlikely, but it isn't uncommon for mafia to buss other mafia and seeing how neither got axed yesterday I'd not say it was a disqualifier.

In your opinion meta wise how do you approach teammembers while mafia?

[sig]

Also feel like from my skim and soon to be deeper reread I"ve got alot more towns in mind then potential mafia and not a fan of that.

[Marmot]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

I like Paranoia and all, but I think Mafia already know which of them did the kill, so not like the others who didn't kill would spew from pressure no?

We're probably going to vote off whatever name I say, so I assume the idea is to encourage discussion instead of phoning it in early in the day after we've already got a player to chop.

[LinearPoint]

Yeah bussing is common, and to be fair I haven't rolled Mafia for others to see my Mafia strategy.
I just don't think I'd even really actively try to bus 2 Mafia D1. Heck Town random lynches Town 95% of the time, so bussing D1 I don't even think is a good strat.

[Marmot]

I probably shouldn't have hinted so early, but I'm going to be really busy tomorrow and won't have time to check in except at brief moments.

[LinearPoint]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

I like Paranoia and all, but I think Mafia already know which of them did the kill, so not like the others who didn't kill would spew from pressure no?

We're probably going to vote off whatever name I say, so I assume the idea is to encourage discussion instead of phoning it in early in the day after we've already got a player to chop.

You know, I didn't really consider that. That's fair not to just end discussion with a early yeet.

[falcon45ca]

Who all jumped on that Sean wagon?

nanook, naa, sabie, one or both of TSP and Macdougall. Tbh I don't remember which of the two was a previous voter

me if you count voting an hour before the CFD jumping on

If Mac jumped on, that's scummy AF. Not sure I'd he was there before tho

[LinearPoint]

Mac says he was on early, so he probably didn't jump on.

[Dolby]

I probably shouldn't have hinted so early, but I'm going to be really busy tomorrow and won't have time to check in except at brief moments.

if you're super worried that you can't tomorrow, you can reveal now tbh

if you know you can check in tomorrow you should probably wait though

[Dolby]

Who all jumped on that Sean wagon?

nanook, naa, sabie, one or both of TSP and Macdougall. Tbh I don't remember which of the two was a previous voter

me if you count voting an hour before the CFD jumping on

If Mac jumped on, that's scummy AF. Not sure I'd he was there before tho

It was Mac or TSP (maybe both) who were on before me

I don't really remember which one

just noticed that one wagon had all blue names and they all switched to seanzie

[sig]

Sabie's a mixed bag from her iso so her mafia meta is a bit different than town mainly based off cases/votes

Mafia camp

1. She's being a lower poster which is a mafia tell for her
2. Doesn"t seem to be case building really, just jumping onto other wagons.
3. The marmot, gavil, sean jump isn't great and I do think LP made a good point re thoughts on marmot. Now that is something you see from both civ/mafia sabie, but usually her indecisiveness is based off her own cases, not existing wagons and is more like Im not sure if i should vote for person Y.

Town camp
1. Her posts seem genuine, like I've seen from her town game minus lack of hunting
2. I think she was being honest during our brief discussion/unsure. Which is also within her civ meta more so than mafia.

So right off the bat struggling to find more town than potential mafia tells I would like some other people familar with her meta to weight in though. My issue is she also gets mischopped alot.

[falcon45ca]

I don't recall seeing your vote on them prior to the EoD, I only remembered seeing Dolby's.
But you still are also very low posting and haven't done anything which is fairly out of character for you.

I voted for Seanzie about 3 hrs into the day and didn't change it. I also made no case or effort it was just an RVS vote and I got busy. If you're going to sus me please fact check your bullshit first.

I'm allowed to gave a low effort game and sussing me for it is crap.

OK, EOD shenanigans doesn't reflect poorly on Mac

[LinearPoint]

TSP I know for sure was not on the wagon. He was the one that pushed it over Sabie.

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

[sig]

Sabie's a mixed bag from her iso so her mafia meta is a bit different than town mainly based off cases/votes

Mafia camp

1. She's being a lower poster which is a mafia tell for her
2. Doesn"t seem to be case building really, just jumping onto other wagons.
3. The marmot, gavil, sean jump isn't great and I do think LP made a good point re thoughts on marmot. Now that is something you see from both civ/mafia sabie, but usually her indecisiveness is based off her own cases, not existing wagons and is more like Im not sure if i should vote for person Y.

Town camp
1. Her posts seem genuine, like I've seen from her town game minus lack of hunting
2. I think she was being honest during our brief discussion/unsure. Which is also within her civ meta more so than mafia.

So right off the bat struggling to find more town than potential mafia tells I would like some other people familar with her meta to weight in though. My issue is she also gets mischopped alot.

Probably will vget the most info from a sabie vote vs someone else. I'd like them to jump in and kinda give some thoughts though.

[LinearPoint]

Yeah I do want to give Sabie a chance now that they aren't going to be under a ton of heat since the lynch will just be whoever Marmot saw and can have time to respond.

[sig]

@falcon45ca can you explain your vote for me a bit more vs one of the wagons. Or is it just that you think I dipped and wanted to switch.

[Lime Coke]

Marmot has said that he allegedly has a red check so I'm holding my vote back until then.

[Lime Coke]

Marmot has said that he allegedly has a red check so I'm holding my vote back until then.

Until he outs**

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I watched Dizzy last night, anyone wanna guess who targeted him?

you should probs claim it 24 hours in if it's just 1 person

that will allow time for discussion

not me though I'm lazy

Eh kinda pointless now that he's said he has a red yeah? Presumably mafia know who carried the kill lol

[Dolby]

Point being

town kinda stagnates when knowing the chop

and I'm hoping that we dont stagnate as much if we don't know the person

[LinearPoint]

Who all jumped on that Sean wagon?

It should be NAA who started the CFD.
Then in order I think it was Nanook, Sabie, TBS.
Mac voted early in the day and Dolby was on a few hours before the wagon started.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

I like Paranoia and all, but I think Mafia already know which of them did the kill, so not like the others who didn't kill would spew from pressure no?

We're probably going to vote off whatever name I say, so I assume the idea is to encourage discussion instead of phoning it in early in the day after we've already got a player to chop.

You know, I didn't really consider that. That's fair not to just end discussion with a early yeet.

There's no hammer, so

Making reads when there's a red check but you don't know who the red check is is fairly pointless, since you're going to have to reevaluate those reads in light of the red anyways

[LinearPoint]

@falcon45ca can you explain your vote for me a bit more vs one of the wagons. Or is it just that you think I dipped and wanted to switch.

Yeah idk.
He was on you EoD, but I also don't think he gave a reason other than not liking the Sabie wagon.

[LinearPoint]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

I like Paranoia and all, but I think Mafia already know which of them did the kill, so not like the others who didn't kill would spew from pressure no?

We're probably going to vote off whatever name I say, so I assume the idea is to encourage discussion instead of phoning it in early in the day after we've already got a player to chop.

You know, I didn't really consider that. That's fair not to just end discussion with a early yeet.

There's no hammer, so

Making reads when there's a red check but you don't know who the red check is is fairly pointless, since you're going to have to reevaluate those reads in light of the red anyways

I very much disagree with this statement.
That's like saying making any reads day 1 is pointless.
Or just read when you don't have a hard red check pointless.

Reads are still useful since it forces Mafia to back their own reads which will be default have to be fake since they already know that the person the Mafia read is not Mafia.
Reads also are good for bouncing ideas around and seeing which actually end up making sense in the long run.
True if we say X is Town and X ends up being the red check that was pointless, but you can still make inferences based on who was town reading them.
Not to mention Mafia probably want to distance from the killer now that they know they are going to die today.

[falcon45ca]

@falcon45ca can you explain your vote for me a bit more vs one of the wagons. Or is it just that you think I dipped and wanted to switch.

I found your dip scummy, and I still do.



I found Sabie's wagon a bit sus, but given how EOD turned out I want that flip

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

I like Paranoia and all, but I think Mafia already know which of them did the kill, so not like the others who didn't kill would spew from pressure no?

We're probably going to vote off whatever name I say, so I assume the idea is to encourage discussion instead of phoning it in early in the day after we've already got a player to chop.

You know, I didn't really consider that. That's fair not to just end discussion with a early yeet.

There's no hammer, so

Making reads when there's a red check but you don't know who the red check is is fairly pointless, since you're going to have to reevaluate those reads in light of the red anyways

I very much disagree with this statement.
That's like saying making any reads day 1 is pointless.
Or just read when you don't have a hard red check pointless.

Reads are still useful since it forces Mafia to back their own reads which will be default have to be fake since they already know that the person the Mafia read is not Mafia.
Reads also are good for bouncing ideas around and seeing which actually end up making sense in the long run.
True if we say X is Town and X ends up being the red check that was pointless, but you can still make inferences based on who was town reading them.
Not to mention Mafia probably want to distance from the killer now that they know they are going to die today.

I mean, it isn't like that at all, since you don't normally expect to have a red check lol. It's not even close to a true comparison

But I'm not going to waste time making reads that I know I'm just going to have to reevaluate in 24ish hours anyways, that's so inefficient

[sig]

Dizzy was targeted by one person, but sure I'll wait until halfway through the day.

I like Paranoia and all, but I think Mafia already know which of them did the kill, so not like the others who didn't kill would spew from pressure no?

We're probably going to vote off whatever name I say, so I assume the idea is to encourage discussion instead of phoning it in early in the day after we've already got a player to chop.

You know, I didn't really consider that. That's fair not to just end discussion with a early yeet.

There's no hammer, so

Making reads when there's a red check but you don't know who the red check is is fairly pointless, since you're going to have to reevaluate those reads in light of the red anyways

I very much disagree with this statement.
That's like saying making any reads day 1 is pointless.
Or just read when you don't have a hard red check pointless.

Reads are still useful since it forces Mafia to back their own reads which will be default have to be fake since they already know that the person the Mafia read is not Mafia.
Reads also are good for bouncing ideas around and seeing which actually end up making sense in the long run.
True if we say X is Town and X ends up being the red check that was pointless, but you can still make inferences based on who was town reading them.
Not to mention Mafia probably want to distance from the killer now that they know they are going to die today.

I agree here/with Doby. As soon as people get a red check everyone will bounce and a fair amount of people haven't even gotten on yet.

[sig]

@falcon45ca can you explain your vote for me a bit more vs one of the wagons. Or is it just that you think I dipped and wanted to switch.

I found your dip scummy, and I still do.



I found Sabie's wagon a bit sus, but given how EOD turned out I want that flip

Meh, really nothing to say then defense wise. I was around for the entire first portion of day 1 giving some reads and contributing as much as i can. Def more than other people, didn't bounce D0, but during D1, and literally the only pressure I actually got besides vague seem sus was a joke I made to dizzy. Not like there was anything i could counter or say in my defense with when I had like a chihuahua style player yapping at me. (No offense intended Gullio) and it was based off a very obvious string of jokes.

Also I mean I am working a full time job and did say I might be in and out so like not a very good reason tbh, and a wee bit weak, but it's a whatever day 1 vote so I'll take that at face value give you an eye and move on.

[LinearPoint]

I really do not see the difference between making reads with no information and making reads pending an investigation result.
All we know is that someone was found, we still don't know who it was. Only Mafia know and they already knew who was Mafia.

Sure we'd have to reevaluate reads after the lynch today, but that's true for every day.
Not wanting to make reads because one unknown person will end up being Mafia is kind of a pointless way to play in my opinion.
We can't just wait on Watchers and Trackers to give information all game.

[sig]

I think it’s best if mafia role claim, but town doesn’t.

this right here is peak town. solid green, ride and die, will sheep for first ten days.

I"ll literally requote the post that got Gullio on me.

This, basically hours into the game.

It would be akin to saying I was claiming cultist and obviously third party when I said dizzy and i should start a cult. Very nonsensical.

Furthermore, and why Gullio got the vote from me and why I'll keep hounding on it is he never went any deeper or attempted to engage me.

Then is trying to paint this false narrative I'm just OMGUS at him, but like come on when your reasoning is literally not a reason of course that's gonna lead to a counter vote and some pings since seems like a good fake set up for mafia to use.

And I'll keep bringing this up as long as its the cornerstone of him wanting to vote for me and trying to flood the thread with vote sig he's obvious mafia.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

But we don't have to reevaluate after the TK

We can build worlds as soon as the red is outed

It's not at all the same as a normal day and idk why you keep insisting it is

It also isn't waiting for the potential of a red check, we already know there is one lol

[TonyStarkPrime]

I wouldn’t worry about Sabie long term though

fuck that sabie dies today

Gun aimed read setup

[TonyStarkPrime]

I mean it’s also fine

[TonyStarkPrime]

Wait is there a red

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ok I might have also misread the setup

[Lime Coke]

I'm in the same boat as Nanook I'm not going to bother with doing much if there's a red check about to be outed.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Wait is there a red

Marmot claims a watch on dizzy with one visitor

Has not outed who yet

[LinearPoint]

But we don't have to reevaluate after the TK

We can build worlds as soon as the red is outed

It's not at all the same as a normal day and idk why you keep insisting it is

It also isn't waiting for the potential of a red check, we already know there is one lol

I mean if someone flips Mafia it calls for reevaluation since you didn't know they were Mafia beforehand.
You can't know for certainty that a flip or vigilante shot will result red or green unless you are Mafia.
The same goes for red checks. Prior to the check you cannot be certain they are Town or Mafia.
I do not really see a fundamental difference between a lynch resulting in a Mafia death and a Watcher saying they saw someone kill.

And Dolby is ultimately correct. Town will just tunnel on the red check until they are dead and 9/10 ignore all other stimuli and overlook potentially scummy behavior.
Its also not like he's saying that he wont give it at all. The first half can be used to regular scum hunt and determine who is trying to distance from the killer and the second half is reevaluating the first and seeing what was missed.
That seems fairly logical and a good plan in my opinion.

[Lime Coke]

Wait is there a red

Marmot said they watched Dizzy last night and 1 person visited him so, at this rate it's academic.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Are we just gonna sleepwalk today then