Baby Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Millium]

im not self-isoing my self to argue this anymore, I already said, "I think we are done here"

I shall await your takes on other matters. If you're town then I'm more likely to find your towniness from your opinion on the game then your self-defence in all honesty.

maybe we will see if I end up feeling like doing it after this movie
though everytime I interact with you or alison I feel like doing it even less

[EnderWiggin]

man you really want to die on my town flip don't you

If you are town, have created strawmen to argue invalid points against me and misrepresented my opinion on a situation while trying to align yourself inaccurately with a townread, then I'll take the votes and sus that follow.

I think your town read is wrong
there is no strawman
even if u decide I have more "Why's?" than Luck
Which i don't even know since I am not rereading my iso
What exactly is the problem with no understanding early town reads? with trying to get responses so I can understand them?
I don't get it man, I don't fucking get what you and alison are doing if you are both town here

Sorry, I was unclear there. It was less about asking why and more that you had a tendency to imply that people's early townreads had no basis and you didn't understand why people were making early reads.

Which is more tendant for wolves to do in a vacuum as they are more likely to attempt to keep the field open, it's a common thematic of wolf approaches called "Widening the POE" but it happens before any sort of reasonable POE is established.

I haven't got issues with questions when they're not framed in a "This shouldn't be townread!" fashion. Each person has their own unique values for how to read a game. Some people are better or worse, but this is a social game and to argue that everyone should do it the same as someone else is bad. And takes the unique fun out of sorting real people's thoughts out.

My piece of advice, if you are town, at this stage of the game:
Everyone is feeling the game out in their own manner. Some people will do that by putting their immediate thoughts on something in thread. Players like Alison will try to find something they find wolfy early and state it more confidently then they feel then push because they believe pressure is one of the best ways to extract proper reactions to sort the game. Alison's "Outed wolf" is more her believing someone is currently the most likely wolf, and as you saw later by her progression on the read, she wasn't so set on it that Gira was actually "outed" in any capacity. That was merely her expression of that read.

I feel the game out by putting my immediate thoughts, both scum and town alignment reads, into thread. Both because I have them on record to see how I progress on someone but also because people's reactions to them tends to allow me to build a web of indication with how people see the gamestate.

Stop focusing on whether or not you think someone actually should be townreading other people. The impression I get is very much that if you're actually town you have a higher standard before allowing yourself to put "town lean" even on someone. Which is perfectly fine. There isn't an issue with it so long as you aren't forcing other people to live by your standards.

I'm happy for you to ask "Why" on people's reads, but instead of trying to say "I don't think you can townread off that" instead put your own thoughts or reads when you have them. Contribute your own mental state on people rather than trying to dissuade other's at this juncture.

[EnderWiggin]

im not self-isoing my self to argue this anymore, I already said, "I think we are done here"

I shall await your takes on other matters. If you're town then I'm more likely to find your towniness from your opinion on the game then your self-defence in all honesty.

maybe we will see if I end up feeling like doing it after this movie
though everytime I interact with you or alison I feel like doing it even less

Then ignore us if you have to.

Stop blaming others for your own inability to disengage.

I recently played a game where I came into a day where everyone suspected me. I realised by half-way through that they weren't going to stop from my words so I disengaged from the thread and instead of interacting I chose to contribute alternate fashion by creating a gamestate read.

I died, as town, from town.

I left behind a legacy that one person was a wolf (I was right). And another was lock town. (I was also right.)

I had no meta on any of the players who were alive with me.

I hated that day because the pressure was annoying. But if you get to that point and find it annoying it's on you to disengage from it and find alternate ways to contribute to town.

I am trying to work with you here. I currently believe you're top scum for me, but I'm happy to treat you as town for a while and see what thoughts or gamestate I can build with you in a world you're town. Please work with me on that.

[Alison]

I just want Alison to give me a chance to play the game lol

You are free to play the game and make any posts you like. Stop pretending I'm "stopping you from contributing" when you're intentionally choosing not to contribute and deciding to AtE and moan instead.

[Luckbox Inc]

I'm probably not going to be around much tomorrow btw.

I have a job interview in the morning and then after that I'm going camping-- so I'll mostly just be on my phone-- so it's good I'm getting clears.

Let's figure out who wolves are now though

[EnderWiggin]

I'm probably not going to be around much tomorrow btw.

I have a job interview in the morning and then after that I'm going camping-- so I'll mostly just be on my phone-- so it's good I'm getting clears.

Let's figure out who wolves are now though

Gluck on the interview.

What're your thoughts on wolves other than Wilgy rn?

If you ignore Wilgy, pick 3 you'd push right now.

[falcon45ca]

man you really want to die on my town flip don't you

Why is he dying on your "town flip"?

[Alison]

I feel like half of Alison's POE is town by my readings but half I agree with so idk where to put her but hey I'm not gonna complain just yet.

Who is town in my POE?

Gira and Luck.

I've already expressed I find Luck more towards towny.

Gira just feels entitled town style. I don't see the scummy part you're reading tbh.

Good news about this, I reversed my reads on those two slots.

[EnderWiggin]

I feel like half of Alison's POE is town by my readings but half I agree with so idk where to put her but hey I'm not gonna complain just yet.

Who is town in my POE?

Gira and Luck.

I've already expressed I find Luck more towards towny.

Gira just feels entitled town style. I don't see the scummy part you're reading tbh.

Good news about this, I reversed my reads on those two slots.

Yeah I saw that, I was amused re-reading.

[Millium]

I am already voting my wolf read, and gave u two town reads that I am happy with
I have 0 obligation to do more, whether I do more is up to me
if this was a game where I had meta, their might exist more reads

and I will focus on people poking at me, its what I do, so /shrug

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: Mizery] aubergine

[Millium]

i dont think you are trying to work with me, you have already decided I was a wolf since I started posting
and I don't think giving anymore reads would change that
u don't get to tell me how I should feel nor how I should handle pressure

[Alison]

ALison doesn't even know what she is doing honestly, she is hard tunneling a townie
arguing all these black and white meaningless scum tells, not taking into account my playstyle
called someone an obvious wolf, redacted it, called me out for timing a town or buddy, because I argued against their obvious wolf lean, which is so damn silly, which is even more hilarious when I actively said I didn't like Gira's entrance.

Nanook is sheeping a double edged player, while taking the biggest back seat to my alignment

until I go through the rest of the game you will still get that I like Gaviel, and that Falcon is probably town, because I think his posts are more aligned with bad town, than malicious wolf

"Alison is bad because she is voting me and I am a town"

Excellent defense. Very convincing.

[falcon45ca]

I'm sorry everyone I had to go out and grab something from the store.

I'll start reading through now.

I'm expecting big things from you

[Alison]

i dont think you are trying to work with me, you have already decided I was a wolf since I started posting
and I don't think giving anymore reads would change that
u don't get to tell me how I should feel nor how I should handle pressure

You're asserting that you somehow can't play the game because I scumread you.

This is nonsense.

I am not stopping you from making posts. I am not stopping you from engaging in solving or talking to other people.

Pre-emptively blaming me for any lack of engagement you have is both absurd and scummy.

[Millium]

man you really want to die on my town flip don't you

Why is he dying on your "town flip"?

it was me rewriting the typical English phrase, "This is the hill u wanna die on"

[falcon45ca]

Nanook is town, I think as well,
His reads ring clear and true today,
Normal scum Nook will tell,
By playing coy with diplomay

so, like, notably as of this post nanook has given basically no serious reads whatsoever so this is a really weird read

Lmao.

Nanook has expressed in previous games that Gavial's constant requests for people to sheep him are bad for town.

His intentional "LET'S SHEEP GAV" feels like petty Nanook being Petty.

Which is unironically rand!v for him.

I'm not being petty i genuinely want to see what happens

Do you think Gav is town?




Do you just want to see what happens if you 100% sheep Gav, regardless of his alignment?

[Millium]

i dont think you are trying to work with me, you have already decided I was a wolf since I started posting
and I don't think giving anymore reads would change that
u don't get to tell me how I should feel nor how I should handle pressure

You're asserting that you somehow can't play the game because I scumread you.

This is nonsense.

I am not stopping you from making posts. I am not stopping you from engaging in solving or talking to other people.

Pre-emptively blaming me for any lack of engagement you have is both absurd and scummy.

you have 0 idea what scummy is, lets be fair here

[EnderWiggin]

i dont think you are trying to work with me, you have already decided I was a wolf since I started posting
and I don't think giving anymore reads would change that
u don't get to tell me how I should feel nor how I should handle pressure

Sure. Wasn't trying to tell you how to feel.

Was trying to work with you. That's why I dropped my poetry. Because it was obvious that it was bothering you and I wanted to work with you while I could in case I was wrong.

But honestly?

Co-operation takes two to tango friendo.

[falcon45ca]

man you really want to die on my town flip don't you

Why is he dying on your "town flip"?

it was me rewriting the typical English phrase, "This is the hill u wanna die on"

I'm not sure that saying really applies here.


Maf is all about solving and mislynches and being wrong, and if you get flipped and you're green, I don't see anybody really faulting Ender for SR you. He's not alone in that category.

[Alison]

i dont think you are trying to work with me, you have already decided I was a wolf since I started posting
and I don't think giving anymore reads would change that
u don't get to tell me how I should feel nor how I should handle pressure

You're asserting that you somehow can't play the game because I scumread you.

This is nonsense.

I am not stopping you from making posts. I am not stopping you from engaging in solving or talking to other people.

Pre-emptively blaming me for any lack of engagement you have is both absurd and scummy.

you have 0 idea what scummy is, lets be fair here

I've been playing mafia for 11 years and I have the highest winrate on this site. I think I have a good idea what scummy is.

How about you explain to me why your actions are those of a townperson's rather than try to cast shade on my ability to scumread people?

Or are you unable to do so? Because if you are I'll happily put you into the dirt.

[Millium]

ALison doesn't even know what she is doing honestly, she is hard tunneling a townie
arguing all these black and white meaningless scum tells, not taking into account my playstyle
called someone an obvious wolf, redacted it, called me out for timing a town or buddy, because I argued against their obvious wolf lean, which is so damn silly, which is even more hilarious when I actively said I didn't like Gira's entrance.

Nanook is sheeping a double edged player, while taking the biggest back seat to my alignment

until I go through the rest of the game you will still get that I like Gaviel, and that Falcon is probably town, because I think his posts are more aligned with bad town, than malicious wolf

"Alison is bad because she is voting me and I am a town"

Excellent defense. Very convincing.

I mean u prance around like you are a god, should I praise u for being wrong?
but I am not about to dive anymore than I already have into insulting people and their playstyles

[EnderWiggin]

Meh. My interest in fighting through a migraine to be here and interact just fell off a cliff. I'll be back later.

[Millium]

i dont think you are trying to work with me, you have already decided I was a wolf since I started posting
and I don't think giving anymore reads would change that
u don't get to tell me how I should feel nor how I should handle pressure

You're asserting that you somehow can't play the game because I scumread you.

This is nonsense.

I am not stopping you from making posts. I am not stopping you from engaging in solving or talking to other people.

Pre-emptively blaming me for any lack of engagement you have is both absurd and scummy.

you have 0 idea what scummy is, lets be fair here

I've been playing mafia for 11 years and I have the highest winrate on this site. I think I have a good idea what scummy is.

How about you explain to me why your actions are those of a townperson's rather than try to cast shade on my ability to scumread people?

Or are you unable to do so? Because if you are I'll happily put you into the dirt.

yikes

[Millium]

i have again 0 intention of self-isoing myself and telling you why I am town
that is your job

[Alison]

ALison doesn't even know what she is doing honestly, she is hard tunneling a townie
arguing all these black and white meaningless scum tells, not taking into account my playstyle
called someone an obvious wolf, redacted it, called me out for timing a town or buddy, because I argued against their obvious wolf lean, which is so damn silly, which is even more hilarious when I actively said I didn't like Gira's entrance.

Nanook is sheeping a double edged player, while taking the biggest back seat to my alignment

until I go through the rest of the game you will still get that I like Gaviel, and that Falcon is probably town, because I think his posts are more aligned with bad town, than malicious wolf

"Alison is bad because she is voting me and I am a town"

Excellent defense. Very convincing.

I mean u prance around like you are a god, should I praise u for being wrong?
but I am not about to dive anymore than I already have into insulting people and their playstyles

I never claimed that I am a god. I claim that I am putting my best efforts into solving the game. If you don't like the way I solve, cool. Go do it your own way.

What you can't do is refuse to play and then criticize the way others do, while claiming that your behavior isn't scummy at all. You seem to have an awful lot of interest in convincing other people that my scumread on you is bad and convincing Ender that bad things will happen to him if he flips you, for someone who's disinterested in the game and has accepted his own death.

[Alison]

i have again 0 intention of self-isoing myself and telling you why I am town
that is your job

So you can't explain why your actions are townie despite making blatantly obvious anti-town moves.

Got it.

[Millium]

What more do you want from me on day 1
do you want me to throw a read out on everyone?

[Millium]

i have again 0 intention of self-isoing myself and telling you why I am town
that is your job

So you can't explain why your actions are townie despite making blatantly obvious anti-town moves.

Got it.

what am I doing that is anti-town?

[Luckbox Inc]

I'm probably not going to be around much tomorrow btw.

I have a job interview in the morning and then after that I'm going camping-- so I'll mostly just be on my phone-- so it's good I'm getting clears.

Let's figure out who wolves are now though

Gluck on the interview.

What're your thoughts on wolves other than Wilgy rn?

If you ignore Wilgy, pick 3 you'd push right now.

Well it's a weird game because it feels like all the wolves must be LHF or afk. Really the only person I'm interested in pushing is Wigly-- there are reasons to not push pretty much everyone else who is semi-active (not including Mizery who falls into the LHF category)-- so my GTH wolf team is pretty much Wigly, Mizery, and then one of Lime Coke/Tess. And it's a pretty slim chance that that is correct-- and so maybe Alison is just a wolf after all but I don't really think that-- although I think that will become more clear pretty soon, and I've never seen your wolf game either so you'll have to tell me what it's like. After that I'm out of guesses.

[falcon45ca]

i have again 0 intention of self-isoing myself and telling you why I am town
that is your job

So you can't explain why your actions are townie despite making blatantly obvious anti-town moves.

Got it.

what am I doing that is anti-town?

Can you give us a POE and why?


Who are your scum reads, and who are your town reads?

[falcon45ca]

I'm probably not going to be around much tomorrow btw.

I have a job interview in the morning and then after that I'm going camping-- so I'll mostly just be on my phone-- so it's good I'm getting clears.

Let's figure out who wolves are now though

Gluck on the interview.

What're your thoughts on wolves other than Wilgy rn?

If you ignore Wilgy, pick 3 you'd push right now.

Well it's a weird game because it feels like all the wolves must be LHF or afk. Really the only person I'm interested in pushing is Wigly-- there are reasons to not push pretty much everyone else who is semi-active (not including Mizery who falls into the LHF category)-- so my GTH wolf team is pretty much Wigly, Mizery, and then one of Lime Coke/Tess. And it's a pretty slim chance that that is correct-- and so maybe Alison is just a wolf after all but I don't really think that-- although I think that will become more clear pretty soon, and I've never seen your wolf game either so you'll have to tell me what it's like. After that I'm out of guesses.

Why is that?


Surely you don't think scum are incapable of being towny at times?

[Luckbox Inc]

I'm probably not going to be around much tomorrow btw.

I have a job interview in the morning and then after that I'm going camping-- so I'll mostly just be on my phone-- so it's good I'm getting clears.

Let's figure out who wolves are now though

Gluck on the interview.

What're your thoughts on wolves other than Wilgy rn?

If you ignore Wilgy, pick 3 you'd push right now.

Well it's a weird game because it feels like all the wolves must be LHF or afk. Really the only person I'm interested in pushing is Wigly-- there are reasons to not push pretty much everyone else who is semi-active (not including Mizery who falls into the LHF category)-- so my GTH wolf team is pretty much Wigly, Mizery, and then one of Lime Coke/Tess. And it's a pretty slim chance that that is correct-- and so maybe Alison is just a wolf after all but I don't really think that-- although I think that will become more clear pretty soon, and I've never seen your wolf game either so you'll have to tell me what it's like. After that I'm out of guesses.

what?
Why is that?


Surely you don't think scum are incapable of being towny at times?

[Luckbox Inc]

I'm probably not going to be around much tomorrow btw.

I have a job interview in the morning and then after that I'm going camping-- so I'll mostly just be on my phone-- so it's good I'm getting clears.

Let's figure out who wolves are now though

Gluck on the interview.

What're your thoughts on wolves other than Wilgy rn?

If you ignore Wilgy, pick 3 you'd push right now.

Well it's a weird game because it feels like all the wolves must be LHF or afk. Really the only person I'm interested in pushing is Wigly-- there are reasons to not push pretty much everyone else who is semi-active (not including Mizery who falls into the LHF category)-- so my GTH wolf team is pretty much Wigly, Mizery, and then one of Lime Coke/Tess. And it's a pretty slim chance that that is correct-- and so maybe Alison is just a wolf after all but I don't really think that-- although I think that will become more clear pretty soon, and I've never seen your wolf game either so you'll have to tell me what it's like. After that I'm out of guesses.

Why is that?


Surely you don't think scum are incapable of being towny at times?

opps....I meant to say "what?"

[Luckbox Inc]

maybe Falcon is a wolf for asking nonsensical questions

[Millium]

meh
[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

[Millium]

Mizery is back
I will give a slight town lean
I like their entry.

if wiggly is a wolf, its because this post is god awful
and just reeks of TMI

[Millium]

Stop focusing on whether or not you think someone actually should be townreading other people. The impression I get is very much that if you're actually town you have a higher standard before allowing yourself to put "town lean" even on someone. Which is perfectly fine. There isn't an issue with it so long as you aren't forcing other people to live by your standards.

I am not forcing anyone to live by my standards, but you are certainly forcing me to live by yours
again I don't understand how you want me to respond to a bunch of early town core reads, when I have no meta on anyone
Why is shutting this down, not an appropriate response?

[Millium]

I guess I could have worded it better, "asking how you got to the read?"
but either why I don't really agree with most early town reads regardless
since they will change, they always do

[Millium]

luck feels like a robot compared to Lasagna mafia where they were town...

[falcon45ca]

maybe Falcon is a wolf for asking nonsensical questions

Why does it feel to you all the wolves are afk?



If the wolves are afk, it follows that you think the players who are posting are town, ya?



So do you think scum can't come across as town?



Honestly, for a player who's been in the game as much as you have, to only have Wilgy and AFKs as scum is concerning.

[Alison]

I'm probably not going to be around much tomorrow btw.

I have a job interview in the morning and then after that I'm going camping-- so I'll mostly just be on my phone-- so it's good I'm getting clears.

Let's figure out who wolves are now though

Gluck on the interview.

What're your thoughts on wolves other than Wilgy rn?

If you ignore Wilgy, pick 3 you'd push right now.

Well it's a weird game because it feels like all the wolves must be LHF or afk. Really the only person I'm interested in pushing is Wigly-- there are reasons to not push pretty much everyone else who is semi-active (not including Mizery who falls into the LHF category)-- so my GTH wolf team is pretty much Wigly, Mizery, and then one of Lime Coke/Tess. And it's a pretty slim chance that that is correct-- and so maybe Alison is just a wolf after all but I don't really think that-- although I think that will become more clear pretty soon, and I've never seen your wolf game either so you'll have to tell me what it's like. After that I'm out of guesses.

Remind me again why Wisp is town?

[Millium]

ya read flea bag mafia, doubtful that Falcon is a wolf here

[Millium]

since meta seems to be important here, even though I have read Dizzy town game
I am going to call him a wolf for replicating basic mafia, until someone proves me other-wise

[Millium]

havent read*

[Millium]

imagine letting Dr Wigly end game in Making Friend and enemies

[Millium]

more meta since u guys love meta so much
Dr Wigly is probably town

[Millium]

Town:
Dr Wigly
Falcon
Gaviel









Luck
Dizzy
Wolves:

[EnderWiggin]

Wisp is probably town.

Gonna do this instead:
[VOTE: Mizery] aubergine

[Alison]

Wisp is probably town.

Gonna do this instead:
[VOTE: Mizery] aubergine

For what?