The Elder Scrolls [GAME OVER]

[Jackofhearts2005]

nah I'm sorta back to thinking that Marmot has decent wolf equity

Get off Marmot. Mac never moves votes from tied w!Marmot and t!Mog to t!Gavil, resulting in him looking like he was voting both Marmot cws but Marmot has the most votes.

[Kylemii]

@Jackofhearts2005 do you think tim could be lying about being a shopekkper

[DaisyCloud]

daisy i think the thing you read is not the thing that you think it is

do u even know what I think I read?

[TonyStarkPrime]

nah I'm sorta back to thinking that Marmot has decent wolf equity

Get off Marmot. Mac never moves votes from tied w!Marmot and t!Mog to t!Gavil, resulting in him looking like he was voting both Marmot cws but Marmot has the most votes.

counterpoint: yes he does

[TonyStarkPrime]

daisy i think the thing you read is not the thing that you think it is

do u even know what I think I read?

yes

[DaisyCloud]

one of mac's shrine powers was a night kill protection

why would mac protect KZA

[TonyStarkPrime]

I had to spend like 10 minutes to figure it out btw but yes

[Timsup2nothin]

Jack could you quit being the dupe for a minute and make an actual wolf jump up and down saying "vote Tim, vote Tim, dunno why, but vote Tim" instead of you doing it?

[DaisyCloud]

this is a 3 way tie now

[Marmot]

one of mac's shrine powers was a night kill protection

why would mac protect KZA

Did he protect KZA?

[TonyStarkPrime]

not quite

[TonyStarkPrime]

unless I'm wrong, and I am never wrong, it's a one way tie which is not the same thing

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will be here for the EOD post, but it will be minimal given time constraints. Please don't interact with this, thanks.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Kylemii
@TonyStarkPrime
@DaisyCloud

My suspicion of Tim can basically be summed up

“I don’t have a good reason to townread him. He keeps pushing townies. He should townread Marmot. He keeps acting like he doesn’t know if I suspect him or not and why. He keeps putting forth super questionable suggestions like yeeting townreads. Hated the way he treated Seanzie. Hated the way he treated Bo and Flanders. Hate the way he’s now treating Marmot. Hate how he keeps basically threatening to scumread me for scumreading him.”

Why did I turn on this suspicion again? Presumably, I had a reason for that.

Since working with you is like pulling teeth, let me ask more specific questions since you don't want to help.

Is it specifically that pressuring TSP will just get blown off? If this is the case, how do you feel about the effect you've had on Made thus far? If that isn't the case, can you please at least try to play well with others and clarify on the difference?

I've been down that road with TSP before, and a whole lot of people told me "yeah not helping you press TSP because it won't work, but good luck." Many of those players are in this game, so I am not going to waste my time trying to mount pressure on TSP here, when TSP is literally doing what TSP always does.

Made has blown me off so far, but there is no predisposition in the player list to just let him get away with it, and he is not in his regular position so I expect a wagon on him as EoD approaches will get his attention.

Okay, fair. Thanks for clarifying.

I want to take this moment to point out that I am a jerk, but not a complete jerk. If you ask a specific question I will almost always answer to the best of my ability. "Questions" of the form "that doesn't make sense" aren't really questions, they are statements that mostly amount to "please repeat yourself" and I just...don't.

But I didn't just say "that doesn't make sense". I put in the effort to explain exactly what didn't make sense and why it doesn't make sense in hopes that you could clarify that. This is not the same as just saying "that doesn't make sense, explain again".

So I just read through your ISO as promised.

Part one was "I am a wolf hahaha." Included in it was someone calling you out and being sniped back with a totally false claim about your "read density." For the record at that point you had nine posts and basically none of them called for being taken seriously. There was one hilariously convoluted thing that ended in Nanook being a wolf that you took no action so your actual "read density" when you made that defensive claim was basically zero.

That part ended with the rainbow list, which you have done nothing with. You were asked one question, by me, and from that point on very close to every post you have made has fit firmly in the "wah wah Tim won't help me solve him, he must be a wolf" mold. You have done apparently nothing to solve any of the other 22 slots available.

And now out of the blue you have ISO'd Falcon and come away with reasons to vote him that you aren't sharing.

Can you give me any reason not to vote you when I am done pressing on Made, assuming he doesn't just out himself as a wolf?

This is the post where I started to scumread Tim.

It feels incredibly like a wolf accusing a townie and waiting to go “Well, he was super scummy and unreasonable. I tried to figure him out. Can’t blame me for his death.”

A collection of negative posts from Tim directed at Jack that largely don’t look like town Tim trying to solve Jack’s slot.

Disclaimers:
*I’m using the word “negative” very broadly to encompass “Jack’s reads are bad,” “I suspect Jack is a wolf,” and jokey “fuck you” kinda posts.

*There are a few bits in here that look like read attempts but they are very basics and are not followed up on

*I’m not personally upset at any of this. I can take a friendly rib and I can take disagreement and I can take suspicion. It isn’t that I think Tim is being mean or unfair. I think Tim is (consciously or unconsciously) putting light pressure on me, calling my reads bad, telling me to shut up and catch up, etc more than he’s trying to figure out my alignment because he’s a wolf. He doesn’t need to figure out my alignment. He needs to avoid yeet.

Spoiler: show

Hot take. Tim wolf. Seanzie....town.

Hot take...Jack spewing random hot takes.

so Tim was wrong about Nanook, Seanzie, and Syn

I've been told he loves murdering townies as a wolf

should we be concerned yet?

What if your mafia cop that checked Tim and got a 3P peak.
You should claim it!

Sure what the hell? I copped our dear Tim.
3P or wolf? Nuance don’t matter. Yeet him.

Flat lie.
Rescind or die.

so Tim was wrong about Nanook, Seanzie, and Syn

I've been told he loves murdering townies as a wolf

should we be concerned yet?

What if your mafia cop that checked Tim and got a 3P peak.
You should claim it!

Sure what the hell? I copped our dear Tim.
3P or wolf? Nuance don’t matter. Yeet him.

Flat lie.
Rescind or die.

It ain’t lylo you don’t have a chance
Pretend to suspect me. Let’s see how you dance.

I suspect you are daft. Have fun with your reaction test. When you are ready to buckle down and read stuff let me know.

I'm probably not voting Marmot over the guy who randomly brought up 3Ps and threw out half the player list in random bursts as suspects with 0 reasoning

If I thought "I am not gonna be back before EoD" right now I would probably leave my vote on Made or Gavail...but Syn's prodding of Marmot seems well reasoned and I'll give it some juice to see where it goes.

Jack doing zero to solve is starting to look suss. Just a note for future town.

I'm probably not voting Marmot over the guy who randomly brought up 3Ps and threw out half the player list in random bursts as suspects with 0 reasoning

If I thought "I am not gonna be back before EoD" right now I would probably leave my vote on Made or Gavail...but Syn's prodding of Marmot seems well reasoned and I'll give it some juice to see where it goes.

Jack doing zero to solve is starting to look suss. Just a note for future town.

I understand he's stuck in poetry but I'm patiently waiting for Jack reads that aren't "Tim wolf"

Yeah. Not a priority right now but hopefully he gets over it and starts sooner or later.

His "Tim wolf" read is mostly based on the first time I played with him he introduced himself as "the unchoppable" and I promptly got him chopped, most likely.

Falcon, Kyle, Kza and Mac are town, of that I’m pretty sure
Tim makes bad pushes, his try is weak, dishonest to the core
Marmot is low hanging fruit, Syn, he’s just that way.
Same likely goes Made and Gavil. Weird, not scum I say.

Then who is Jack?

You are pretty clearly world building around "Tim wolf so anyone he pushes is town." Notably, numerous people who are pretty clearly town disagree with the majority of your reads there so maybe the root of your world build is flawed?

Can you give us anything on anyone that doesn't start with "Tim's a wolf, therefore..."?

Okay thanks in advance.

Clears I am buying outright: Anyone that wants to chop one of these is gonna have to go through me.

Syn: got what seems to be validly greenchecked
Kza: outed a greencheck that removes a possible mischop from the wolves availability while marking themselves as a must out by endgame

Me: I heard it, I heard it, I heard it on the X



Solid looking townies that would have to just grow fangs and tear someone's head off on live video for me to support going after them today

Scottie: super useful town making smart points and pushes, takes townish risks
Mac: no reason to suspect the gif posting is anything but real restriction, day one was towny, day two towny enough given restrictions
Falcon: Alison's day one read on vote moves said not wolf, and I agreed then and it is too early to sweat a reeval without good cause
LongCon: day one outing that he also has no info on shrines when I was being pressed for exactly that is town behavior, too soon to reeval

Slightly less solid but probably still not today

Kyle: back and forth with Daisy was probably TvT, push on Marmot had the kind of bad reasoning townies often bumble into
Daisy: same TvT back and forth, plus her concerns about my slot seem uninformed

Won't kill, but maybe only because we cant

TSP: to get a free day pass and just contribute absolutely nothing is annoying AF, but NAI for him...playing day one from 'probably not getting chopped day one so just do nothing' is also annoying AF, but NAI for him...he either gets mech cleared or he is gonna get killed, that's his thing, but not today

Might softly be town, but not enough to really fight about

Qwags: there should be wolf pile on happening here no matter what his alignment, but I am thinking the wolves are more likely to not pile on a town early and if they were bussing they would pile on early to get a good seat...maybe
Gavail: the whole "I just call everyone who votes me the wolf team" is an incredibly dumb read system and could be faked, and the claim is sketch AF...but if somehow the claim is true and he comes back with a good watch report that is a huge potential swing and just boneyarding this early seems bad
Jack: "pick a wolf, build a world on it" also seems like a dumb system, but it's a system...and it is the sort of system town Jack might put up as his public face to avoid too many town reads...good third party candidate but less likely wolfing

Would kill but perhaps feel bad if they are town

Lost Monkey: There have been moments where I nodded along with their thoughts. Not enough to really town read them, but there's that sense of "at this pace they will have town cleared by day fourish" and they haven't struck me as scummy at all
Quin: Felt pretty good day one but not good enough to accept the total fall off the planet play

Would kill just because in two days there has been no sign of a pulse anyway:

Bo: seriously cannot say one thing about him without doing an ISO
Nacho: my only memory here is that he claims he will catch up someday
Enrique: do better or die...I mean, I know that's harsh, but seriously

Have a seemingly valid case for killing them outright

Flanders: There is a flaw, in that I still think dirty wolf would maybe not be preferred style, but man the push on Qwags looks dirty wolf to me
Marmot: People I trust are pushing, for what seem like good reasons, and his defenses have been sketchy
Made: Gimmick bad, reaction to responses to gimmick bad, wagon position day one bad...just overall, bad

Good luck town...I have company but should be able to spring a half hour or so for EoD

We’re not yeeting Bo today under the train of logic “the optimal move is to yeet someone we think is a townie.”

That’s nonsense and wolves love bad excuses like that to yeet a townie and get no heat for it.

I particularly hate Tim throwing down pre-shade on anyone who doesn’t want to yeet someone that he thinks is a townie.

Insanity or wolfing.

Have you caught up on the setup? Are you genuinely unconcerned by "holding additional artifacts will unlock additional secret powers for the wolves, above and beyond the basic powers of the artifact itself"?

Presumably the wolves know what those secret additional powers are, and yeah if I get a sense that someone has an unhealthy investment in fighting for those powers that indicates they know what they are fighting for I'm intending to kill them.

I’m not concerned to the point where we start voting off townreads over it.

If I was a wolf, I would loooove the idea of the town giving my team a free pass during the day and our choice of nightkill in exchange for fuck all. Wolves win by getting X misyeets. You’re proposing we give the wolves one on a silver platter because of mechanics that we don’t even know what they are.

That’s a bad strategy bordering on openwolfing. Every time I see several players make an argument to yeet someone even if they are town, at least half those players end up being wolves.

How about to prevent a double night kill? "Oh we gave them a free pass during the day and now they get a nightkill" is one side of it. The other side is "we followed an idiot, chopped a townie, and now the wolves got a DOUBLE night kill plus who knows what else..." If you can convince me we are not biting into the "we followed an idiot and chopped a townie" part, great, but at last report your "number one scum read," for reasons unstated but seeming at least to me to be completely fucking daft, is ME...so I'm not throwing in with you here Jack.

I townread Mac and LC for the stupid reason they chaosed themselves and that’s what I expect town them to do. Idk what I expect from wolf them. Mac seems in his town meta anyhow. Less sure on LC.

ok this is a bad read

I townread Mac and LC for the stupid reason they chaosed themselves and that’s what I expect town them to do. Idk what I expect from wolf them. Mac seems in his town meta anyhow. Less sure on LC.

ok this is a bad read

More than just bad, tbh.

Look closer at Jack.

Yeh? What’s wolf Jack up to? Defending wolfbros who are under zero pressure? Trying to pocket effing Mac? Meeeeeeh.

Wolf Jack is subtly saying "look at me I am so towny," which especially for Jack is a not very towny thing to do.

Like idgaf about making sure you town read me, Tim.

I’m not ignoring you saying things that don’t line up with reality just because it means you think I’m not a wolf. Who fucking cares? I think you’re a wolf atm and I’m not getting yeeted besides.

You are just offended, and should look at my motives because you honestly should not be offended...and by the way, neither of us is getting chopped any time soon.

Show of hands. Who reads Daisy town and why?

Because the cases were moderately weak but (post restriction notwithstanding) I couldn’t get anyone except Syn to agree with me on or consider yeeting Daisy.

So people must townread her, right? Why?

I think her and Kyle yammering endlessly at each other D1 was TvT. I also think if she were a wolf she'd have given your daft tunnel on Tim play some support.

Has anyone come up with a good reason not to follow through on chopping Flanders/Mogh?

Other than Jack wanting to punt him into the sun, is there anything good to be said for Marmot?

If both these answers are no why are there votes scattered randomly across the town?

[VOTE: Tim] aubergine

That’s my first reaction to yesterday and the Mac flip as well.

Why's that Jack?

It's starting to look like you are in a tunnel of convenience buddy.

[VOTE: Tim] aubergine

That’s my first reaction to yesterday and the Mac flip as well.

Why's that Jack?

It's starting to look like you are in a tunnel of convenience buddy.

Because you keep voting for townies.

It would look that way if you paid no attention at all or were a lying wolf, sure.

I’m not sure what to do with you consistently mischaracterizing my degree of suspicion/progression on you for basically the entire game.

Who have you voted for Jack? What's your claim to fame?

Pro tip: the only person "cleared by good vote" is whoever shot Mac last night. So make a case or get off my back. LOL

I am getting a huge deja vu thing here Mac...I thought Flanders was a hit and we were gonna kill him...and we didn't. Now I am looking at how all the action going to Gavial is coming from the Mogh wagon and not the Marmot wagon...

We might be making a bad play here and maybe we should have hard pushed Mogh...

Take this shit to its logical conclusion today.

I'm not gonna make your reads for you Jack, spit it or zip it.

My other obligation is running late.

Okay, my ride's here...Long Con...be convincing please. Back later.

Lol

Why do I feel like this timing worked out such that Tim is under heat and he needs someone else to come distract?

Don't flatter either one of us. The wolf team isn't likely to sac someone to "save" me if I am a wolf. And you are barking up the wrong tree obviously enough that there would be no call for such a reaction anyway. Even with mad Jack for a wingman I don't think you can put me over.

[TonyStarkPrime]

like the stupid thing is that wolves should be hard bussing someone today and we're not gonna get that because half of us are committed to chopping townies

[DaisyCloud]

one of mac's shrine powers was a night kill protection

why would mac protect KZA

Did he protect KZA?

do you know who protected kza? was kza protected

[Timsup2nothin]

unless I'm wrong, and I am never wrong, it's a one way tie which is not the same thing

I am afraid it may not be a tie at all.

[TonyStarkPrime]

unless I'm wrong, and I am never wrong, it's a one way tie which is not the same thing

I am afraid it may not be a tie at all.

well a one way tie is pretty definitionally not a tie

[Timsup2nothin]

Your case sux ass Jack. That's part of what makes you so townie, but can we move along now?

[DaisyCloud]

@Marmot please don't avoid my question

[TonyStarkPrime]

i think jack's reasons for townreading marmot are incredibly skimpy but they're also not strictly wrong

[Kylemii]

one of mac's shrine powers was a night kill protection

why would mac protect KZA

well no, i was just thinking from the standpoint of if Marmot were hinting at being doctor or having a doctor one shot, it seems doubtful the mafia would have two of those. or maybe they could idk.

[Jackofhearts2005]

nah I'm sorta back to thinking that Marmot has decent wolf equity

Get off Marmot. Mac never moves votes from tied w!Marmot and t!Mog to t!Gavil, resulting in him looking like he was voting both Marmot cws but Marmot has the most votes.

counterpoint: yes he does

So that already obvious wolf Mac (your words) can look worse AND yeet a townie? Fucking why?

Why is Marmot a wolf besides that he’s not hunting much?

[Marmot]

one of mac's shrine powers was a night kill protection

why would mac protect KZA

Did he protect KZA?

do you know who protected kza? was kza protected

I don't know?! You're the ones talking about it lol

Did he?

[Kylemii]

we could just ask him i guess

[Timsup2nothin]

unless I'm wrong, and I am never wrong, it's a one way tie which is not the same thing

I am afraid it may not be a tie at all.

well a one way tie is pretty definitionally not a tie

Fair. Do you think the hammer is on Marmot or Falcon here?

[TonyStarkPrime]

nah I'm sorta back to thinking that Marmot has decent wolf equity

Get off Marmot. Mac never moves votes from tied w!Marmot and t!Mog to t!Gavil, resulting in him looking like he was voting both Marmot cws but Marmot has the most votes.

counterpoint: yes he does

So that already obvious wolf Mac (your words) can look worse AND yeet a townie? Fucking why?

Why is Marmot a wolf besides that he’s not hunting much?

because he's mac and he does that kind of bs all the time

[Jackofhearts2005]

I hate all of you (not really)

[TonyStarkPrime]

unless I'm wrong, and I am never wrong, it's a one way tie which is not the same thing

I am afraid it may not be a tie at all.

well a one way tie is pretty definitionally not a tie

Fair. Do you think the hammer is on Marmot or Falcon here?

this question puts me in a pickle

[Jackofhearts2005]

We’re gonna have 4/4/4 w/w/t wagons and the townie is gonna get yeeted

[Timsup2nothin]

nah I'm sorta back to thinking that Marmot has decent wolf equity

Get off Marmot. Mac never moves votes from tied w!Marmot and t!Mog to t!Gavil, resulting in him looking like he was voting both Marmot cws but Marmot has the most votes.

counterpoint: yes he does

So that already obvious wolf Mac (your words) can look worse AND yeet a townie? Fucking why?

Why is Marmot a wolf besides that he’s not hunting much?

The "push" on Gavial actually moved votes from Marmot to Mogh in the end, and that was a predictable outcome.

[TonyStarkPrime]

But I think Marmot's dangerously close to getting SBPCed into being a wolf for his ranges, camping trips aside

[TonyStarkPrime]

We’re gonna have 4/4/4 w/w/t wagons and the townie is gonna get yeeted

who's the townie

[TonyStarkPrime]

marmot

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’ll vote Falcon if Tim will.

[TonyStarkPrime]

so vote for falcon

[DaisyCloud]

one of mac's shrine powers was a night kill protection

why would mac protect KZA

Did he protect KZA?

do you know who protected kza? was kza protected

I don't know?! You're the ones talking about it lol

Did he?

just to clarify u r saying it wasn't you. you didn't

[Jackofhearts2005]

marmot

A’yup

[TonyStarkPrime]

tsp, making compromises since 2001

[Marmot]

We’re gonna have 4/4/4 w/w/t wagons and the townie is gonna get yeeted

Wait, falcon and tim are both wolves to you here?

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

[Marmot]

marmot

What?

[DaisyCloud]

@Marmot please answer

[TonyStarkPrime]

daisy unless you have some pretty hard info here this train of speculation is not correct

[Timsup2nothin]

unless I'm wrong, and I am never wrong, it's a one way tie which is not the same thing

I am afraid it may not be a tie at all.

well a one way tie is pretty definitionally not a tie

Fair. Do you think the hammer is on Marmot or Falcon here?

this question puts me in a pickle

Just...be sure you are comfortable where you are at. I'm gonna be the hammer and if I miss I die tomorrow and we're screwed...but don't confuse me by last second heroics.

[TonyStarkPrime]

marmot

What?

i need to start chaining posts better

[DaisyCloud]

daisy unless you have some pretty hard info here this train of speculation is not correct

chill

[Marmot]

@Marmot please answer

I did answer.

[Jackofhearts2005]

If Falcon and Marmot are both town and Tim is not and there’s any townie voting for Marmot or off wagon, imma throw a pretend banana creme pie at them for this.

[DaisyCloud]

I'm gonna assume Marmot didn't.