Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[MartinGG99]

This game is so much harder if he isn't

I mean it's hard anyways but

Sure would be nice if it was a little easier

How so?

There's like seven people playing and he's one of them

Quite a few people here are multi-tabling (Poison included iirc) so I'm not sure if that's a valid thing to look into.

Jack has mentioned he was multi-tabling with Marmot for example, off the top of my head. Or I think Jack said it, might've been someone else.

I don't really have any other games going on, and so I've been spending nearly all of my time that I dedicate to FM here. Though that may change a bit during next week as Bee Mafia starts and its spring break for me.

[MartinGG99]

Of course, Alison doesn't answer my question to them :/.

[MartinGG99]

I got awhile to catch up but what’s the case on Mac and Tony?

I have little clue why the others are voting tony; I originally suspected he was tunneling too much to be town among other things that I felt were possibly inconsistent.

Mac I don't think is town though. He's just there spouting out reads and it feels like he doesn't have much town motivation if he's going to vote Tony alongside Epi of which they both had butted heads before. I don't really have experience with a town Mac (much less a scum mac) that lives to end-game, but I think he warrants suspicion as he normally dies by this point (in my experience) as well as the fact that he's a very capable player for both sides.

I asked Alison why she TR'ed Mac in the past and she hasn't answered that.

[MartinGG99]

I have little clue why the others are voting tony out of everyone else

ebwop.

[MartinGG99]

The intent I'm gathering from this post is the Martin is ignoring Made's spew because Martin wants to scumread Urist, and he had his mind made up already.

What the hell do you mean by "I want to scumread" a player?

Why would you even think that when I've given fair reasons for thinking he could be scum?

[MartinGG99]

Spoiler: show

Though I just thought that saving my second use for later game would be better, since Alison is always an enemy of mine no matter the result.

How's that so?

Slaver isn't the enemy of NCR I believe.

Also fwiw Alison as New Reno or lying slaver doesn't really bother me. She's not my enemy in both worlds and I trust that she genuinely found me as town yesterday.

Regardless, I don't really care to vote her.

Is that what ketchup refers to?

A catchup?

.....did it take me too long to figure that out?

@Urist

How do you feel about Nanook.

I would like your immediate thoughts if possible.

Okay, so. Here's a wall on why I think Urist Is Suspicious:

I was reading the votes and the context for those votes for people who voted Rej

and honestly without knowing Urist in the past I have to say I think he really didn't care a whole lot for voting Rej and it feels like his votes are throw-away without stating as such

it also feels agenda-y that he comes in here rushing to ask Doom about Alison but then gets or acts frustrated for not knowing Alison's alignment because of them not checking

Reading into his ISO a bit more, he mentions Poison nearly all the time but doesn't really do anything about it

everyone else who voted Rej and their context didn't really give me any bad vibes but Urist's has

Not to mention he did vote Falcon45ca yesterday even though Urist seems to believe (based on his attitude today) that Alison was a good slaver candidate and that Falcon was claiming Alison was evil at that time (IIRC).

and now there's this whole Nanook claiming Westin to CC Doom, and Urist doesn't bring up the whole "why didn't you check Alison n2" question again to Nanook while thinking he's "prob town":

@Urist

How do you feel about Nanook.

I would like your immediate thoughts if possible.

prob town

annnnd he's being all opportunistic over Dom while the shitshow between Nook and Doom being possible CC's is going on, for a role (Westin) I think he was very interested in this whole game:

dom is outed mafia at this point

why?

Like I have him as a candidate but this conversation just seems to be him making snide remarks about DOOM/Nook for having an uppity attitude/not keeping up with the mech claims respectively. It seems mostly NAI to me.

he was gone all day yesterday and has nothing to say? like really?

Here's Martin's contributions to the thread around the time when Omega slipped, claimed, or whatever she did. Urist, Dom, TSP, LC, Alison, and ChopChop all engaged with Omega and Nanook to varying degrees. Martin responded immediately to Omega, I think he was the first person to point out the lie. But he never followed up on it. He kind disappeared, then reappeared with a case on Urist.

This line in particular is exactly what Martin is doing here.

Reading through the madness that was the Nanook/Omega fight, Urist was interested in sorting it out. Martin did not appear interested in sorting it out.


Also, notice those last two posts. Martin's case came 6 minutes after he asked Urist for a read on Nanook. I don't think that wallpost took 6 minutes to write, especially considering the research that went into it. That suggests a couple things:

1) Martin was making this case while the Omega/Nanook shit was going down. Martin was aware it was happening, he even references it in his Urist wallpost. Again, Martin he didn't contribute to it.
2) Martin had his mind made up about Urist before he asked that question, and it reads to me like Martin was looking for an opportunity to shift attention away from Omega and onto someone who was pushing her.

Both of your conclusions are correct and incorrect.

You are correct in that: I was making the case while I asked him that question, and the purpose of that was to add to what I thought and perceived was him not reacting authentically to the Doom/Nanook issue.

You are incorrect in that: I was indirectly contributing to the Doom/Nanook issue. The counter-claim onto a slot which had been very low-contribution was an obvious wolf to me. I have no business in contributing to it other than looking for wolves who might've been caught as well as part of the surprise counter-claim. My issue at the time is that I thought Nanook and Doom were claiming the same or very similar things potentially, and Urist was, or so I thought, treating one slot differently than the other even though he was quite clearly invested in the Councilman Westin issue.

The pink part show's support, not contradiction, to the above.

Finally, what kind of wolf thinks they can distract from a mech claim?

[MartinGG99]

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - CC'd Omega, his takes are reasonable, and I think a bit outside of his scumrange
Urist - buried Omega

Nanook is the one who buried them. Not Urist. Unless you're going to tell me there's evidence before / without the Nanook CC that Urist was going to push them?

[MartinGG99]

I don't think anything's changed for me tbh. Other than putting a ground squirrel on my radar.

I dislike with many of those reads being based on Made/Doom/Omega interactions rather than anything being a feasible independent town-read.

[MartinGG99]

I also don't understand why people think its a bad idea to ignore wolf-spew from a replacement slot. Like, wolfing 101 when being replaced into under fire is to try and create the best spew possible, and we can WIFOM for millenia on what that could be.

Like, no read should ever rely on that unless its *supporting evidence* rather than *evidence for basis*. Like wtf.

[MartinGG99]

Especially when in my last game on MU a player was spewed heavily and well V by a wolf chopped on D3 but due to an indirect mechanic they got caught on D4 as a wolf despite being spewed so well.

Like spew and dealing with it is too shaky and dangerous to look to as basis for a read imo.

[TonyStarkPrime]

yes, urist is town for a lot of reasons that aren't his handling of made

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think it was you, you described how you would handle made if you were a wolf and I think you would find an example of that behavior there

I read through the beginning of Day 3 again, and reading ChopChop's handling of Omega before she subbed out, I feel fine about him. He was persistent about it.

his first two posts about it on day 3 are after made has subbed in and the matter has been nearly settled and he only comments for unrelated reasons and I just do not see how you come to this read

[TonyStarkPrime]

he does go after omega for an unrelated thing but expresses no energy in that read

[TonyStarkPrime]

Made is a safer wagon but Grugu could give us more of info.

there's also this gem

[TonyStarkPrime]

this is i believe the first time chop says made and it's well after all the stuff

[TonyStarkPrime]

Chop never even voted for Made, how was he in any way persistent?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Can you even imagine being Chop, finding a chopslip on someone, then someone else claims info on the person you thought had slipped, and then just not saying anything about it for 8 hours (while posting at least 4 dozen times about other things), and then finally expressing an opinion -- that grogu would maybe be a better chop (And that you'd vote there)?

And then Marmot calls you persistent for it?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

This game is so much harder if he isn't

I mean it's hard anyways but

Sure would be nice if it was a little easier

How so?

There's like seven people playing and he's one of them

Quite a few people here are multi-tabling (Poison included iirc) so I'm not sure if that's a valid thing to look into.

Jack has mentioned he was multi-tabling with Marmot for example, off the top of my head. Or I think Jack said it, might've been someone else.

I don't really have any other games going on, and so I've been spending nearly all of my time that I dedicate to FM here. Though that may change a bit during next week as Bee Mafia starts and its spring break for me.

This isn't that relevant to what I said

[MartinGG99]

Can you even imagine being Chop, finding a chopslip on someone, then someone else claims info on the person you thought had slipped, and then just not saying anything about it for 8 hours (while posting at least 4 dozen times about other things), and then finally expressing an opinion -- that grogu would maybe be a better chop (And that you'd vote there)?

And then Marmot calls you persistent for it?

Chop was persistent about slaver, I read the D3 ISO and he's being himself regardless of the circumstances.

In fact it almost looks like he just completely avoided the topic save like a few select posts. He did call them outed wolf in a post.

I actually kinda don't know how scum and town him reacts to mech claims when he has someone else in his sights; this is a nuanced situation. I think he's town, but I'm not sure if that really shows for D3 as much as it did in other day phases.

Note that I'm analyzing how Chop reacted to it rather than how he interacted with Made or what Made said about him.

[MartinGG99]

This game is so much harder if he isn't

I mean it's hard anyways but

Sure would be nice if it was a little easier

How so?

There's like seven people playing and he's one of them

Quite a few people here are multi-tabling (Poison included iirc) so I'm not sure if that's a valid thing to look into.

Jack has mentioned he was multi-tabling with Marmot for example, off the top of my head. Or I think Jack said it, might've been someone else.

I don't really have any other games going on, and so I've been spending nearly all of my time that I dedicate to FM here. Though that may change a bit during next week as Bee Mafia starts and its spring break for me.

This isn't that relevant to what I said

I thought it was relevant?

You seem to be analyzing activity, based on the underlined above, and how much easier or harder it is. "Harder" here would imply to me that you think Tony is acting towny or as a good scum. Otherwise the game isn't really that harder unless you're talking partner hunting.

[MartinGG99]

Personally leaning to chopping Marmot in the near future. Not too sure about it though, I felt vibes earlier this day phase with him, but when that comes into fruition he has some distinctly different stances than I do that I'm not sure if I like.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

This game is so much harder if he isn't

I mean it's hard anyways but

Sure would be nice if it was a little easier

How so?

There's like seven people playing and he's one of them

Quite a few people here are multi-tabling (Poison included iirc) so I'm not sure if that's a valid thing to look into.

Jack has mentioned he was multi-tabling with Marmot for example, off the top of my head. Or I think Jack said it, might've been someone else.

I don't really have any other games going on, and so I've been spending nearly all of my time that I dedicate to FM here. Though that may change a bit during next week as Bee Mafia starts and its spring break for me.

This isn't that relevant to what I said

I thought it was relevant?

You seem to be analyzing activity, based on the underlined above, and how much easier or harder it is. "Harder" here would imply to me that you think Tony is acting towny or as a good scum. Otherwise the game isn't really that harder unless you're talking partner hunting.

The game is harder the more inactives are town, that doesn't effect their odds of being scum just my desire for them to be.

[Urist]

this is i believe the first time chop says made and it's well after all the stuff

a little insight into chop's meta, it's actually illegal for him to have a correct read, that's why he never does it

[MartinGG99]

this is i believe the first time chop says made and it's well after all the stuff

a little insight into chop's meta, it's actually illegal for him to have a correct read, that's why he never does it

okay I have to admit I laughed too hard at this

Though he is correct sometimes....just less often than others imo.

Sorry again chop chop

[Gavial]

There’s probably scum within Marmot/Kyle.
They probably panic voted Martin because Tony was Top Wagon.

[Gavial]

this is i believe the first time chop says made and it's well after all the stuff

a little insight into chop's meta, it's actually illegal for him to have a correct read, that's why he never does it

I’ve had corrects reads before.
In that one game on Mafia451 I got the entire scum team as Neighborizor with FireKitten.

[Gavial]

I knew Orange was a faker and knew Goalkeeper and Banana were their buddies.

[Gavial]

I messed with them too and tried to make them talk about each other more.

[Gavial]

I say if I can’t convince others, let the others do the talking.

[Gavial]

Ooooo who’s the 7 guests browsing with me?

[Gavial]

Well I GTG back to work! Cya!

[Urist]

[VOTE: poison] aubergine
let's hope the curse is broken

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I kinda think poison is afk/slanking town. Would much rather kill chop or Marmot or Kyle or epi or lc

[MartinGG99]

@Urist

Make sure your vote actually lands on the poll.

[Urist]

@Urist

Make sure your vote actually lands on the poll.

o ya thanks

[Urist]

I kinda think poison is afk/slanking town. Would much rather kill chop or Marmot or Kyle or epi or lc

why do you think poison is town?

[MartinGG99]

Honestly I'm kinda scared that with so many potential top wagons there's going to be dead air with this thread and so we'll never get much if anything from EoD's. Not that I'm suggesting a flash wagon.

[MartinGG99]

(EoD in less than an hour and half)

[Urist]

eh fuck it
[VOTE: chopchop] aubergine

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I kinda think poison is afk/slanking town. Would much rather kill chop or Marmot or Kyle or epi or lc

why do you think poison is town?

I think she's the conditional vig

[MartinGG99]

I kinda think poison is afk/slanking town. Would much rather kill chop or Marmot or Kyle or epi or lc

why do you think poison is town?

I think she's the conditional vig

That sounds reasonable buuutt...

They have a double voter ability and they haven't been voting unless they're saving it for endgame I guess.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I kinda think poison is afk/slanking town. Would much rather kill chop or Marmot or Kyle or epi or lc

why do you think poison is town?

I think she's the conditional vig

That sounds reasonable buuutt...

They have a double voter ability and they haven't been voting unless they're saving it for endgame I guess.

They've been mostly afk since d2 so

Thats not surprising

[Urist]

[VOTE: macdougall] aubergine
final answer

[MartinGG99]

Actually I think Nanook is right. Poison is probably that role.

I really should have realized that sooner considering myself tbh.

[Urist]

[VOTE: marmot] aubergine
ok last one for real
unless i feel like moving it again

[Urist]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME tell me what to think

[Urist]

at least 60% of the reason why i'd love a marmot yeet today is because if he flips enclave then i at least don't have to worry about martin being enclave (probably)

[Urist]

ACTUALLY
[VOTE: long con] aubergine
ok i'm done now

[MartinGG99]

Honestly I'm kinda tempted to move to the marmot.

I'm just stuck on the fact that Mac thinks TSP is scum and is voting there.

[MartinGG99]

Not so sure about the Long Con though. I kinda feel like he's not w/w with Marmot, esp with the d3 interactions wrt to my case on Urist and Long Con's reaction to that with Dom.