Persona 5 Mafia [Game End]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Who was it again that tried to push the Rej lynch over TSP? And then switched to TSP after it was a foregone conclusion?

I forget.

shockedpikachumeme.jpg

Suspect me all you like, just ensure you don’t waste the night phase exclusively on that. Get a couple backup suspects. You’re going to need them.

Epi, Sprityo, Longcon.

If one of those players can self clear, we’re golden as Persona 4.

But it’s just you.

Those are a good start I think. I recommend you explore them in greater depth, even if as “it’s just you” foregone conclusions. Hell, if it’s just me, be prepared to find a possible number three as well.

[Jackofhearts2005]

All of Jay’s posts about Rej yesterday were primo garbo.

If there are only two baddies, this game is over.

This is all that stands between you and being a best-in-the-business kind of civilian. You’re right on the cusp, Jackofhearts2005. You just have to find that last layer of interpretive complexity. Maybe this game will push you there. I’m excited about that, genuinely. Whatever happens here, you’ll know in time that I’m a civilian, and you’ll have everything you need.

I forgive you in any event. I don’t expect you to trust me here. The real challenge will be next time.

It took me awhile but I correctly read TSP this game. I already leveled up. I just need to decide what to put my skill points into.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am not going to defend myself at all against the token accusations sure to flood in.

You tried to lynch Rej!

You moved your vote to Tony for credit when it was late!

Like, that’s ordinary shit. People will suspect it. That’s what civilians do, whatever. This is all you get:

Ask yourself if that’s how you handle business as a teammate Tony is the most likely lynch in a tiny game of 11.

If you think I did that, then lol okay. Sure. I hope you’ll (the general you) use this night phase for greater investigative effort and depth than just that.

I’m going to find Tony’s team. Fuck the rest.

[Rej]

We can still talk during night? Damn.

TSP was eaten. They was JJJ desperately tried to strenghten my wagon makes me think JJJ is the next one.

Also epi gave me vibes of him giving up to form any other wagon.

I am busy at the mobile tho.

Has anyone an overview of the votes moved?

@epignosis what do you think about JJJ?

Mafia probably has a PR left. A theory:
We already had a wagon on the PR and TSP tried to move the vote away from the PR.

Just some thoughts I would like to mention.

[Rej]

I am not going to defend myself at all against the token accusations sure to flood in.

You tried to lynch Rej!

You moved your vote to Tony for credit when it was late!

Like, that’s ordinary shit. People will suspect it. That’s what civilians do, whatever. This is all you get:

Ask yourself if that’s how you handle business as a teammate Tony is the most likely lynch in a tiny game of 11.

If you think I did that, then lol okay. Sure. I hope you’ll (the general you) use this night phase for greater investigative effort and depth than just that.

I’m going to find Tony’s team. Fuck the rest.

You did so much nonsense last DP. but I respect you for all the effort.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am not going to defend myself at all against the token accusations sure to flood in.

You tried to lynch Rej!

You moved your vote to Tony for credit when it was late!

Like, that’s ordinary shit. People will suspect it. That’s what civilians do, whatever. This is all you get:

Ask yourself if that’s how you handle business as a teammate Tony is the most likely lynch in a tiny game of 11.

If you think I did that, then lol okay. Sure. I hope you’ll (the general you) use this night phase for greater investigative effort and depth than just that.

I’m going to find Tony’s team. Fuck the rest.

You did so much nonsense last DP. but I respect you for all the effort.

I don’t mind my work being called nonsense while the game is active as long as it is treated with greater respect once I’m dead or the game ends.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My first instinct is that if there’s only one teammate, they voted on the Tony wagon. Defending a guy that opened Day 1 with three instantaneous votes and actively trying to save him strikes me as so dumb that nobody here would really do that (inb4 cOnVeNiEnT). I’ll see where interactive analyses take me, probably after teacher time this afternoon.

[Jackofhearts2005]

One base note: If the general premise that greater reads motion within a broader space of maneuverability is to be viewed as a sign of civilianhood, then I am encouraged that Dragomir emerges from this exercise as the one best suiting that idea. He has been all over the place by comparison to the others I reviewed, and he is also my strongest civilian read. Should he turn up mafia then oh golly, but I am encouraged right now.

One thing that drove me toward this effort was an expectation that Tony would not perform well. As it turns out, I think he's actually been more fluid than most players in this game. That may then serve as another point to his credit. He hasn't entirely sat on his initial reads as I had kind of expected based upon my general perception of his reads before the effort.

Some of these which might look bad by the numbers should be assessed for player and personality too. Epignosis's reads are highly static. I kinda figure they tend to be that way in most of his games. This isn't a reason to give him civilian credit, but it is a caution against allowing it to serve as a sole inspiration for pitchforks. Likewise with sprityo, there's no reason to expect reads fluidity when he has barely made any of them in the first place. I recommend reading both of these players on other bases.

Rej has been highly static in his reads, and even when there was some motion I struggled to follow it. He emerges as the worst look I think. Mac is also pretty rigid in his game theory -- there's not much motion in his play. I tend to expect more of that from him. Not my favorite thing.

I'm going to continue thinking things over. I have to drive home though which will take me 2+ hours. I should be back for the EOD period if there are no traffic problems. Keep the thread working while I am away please. Feedback is always welcome here too.

I think Tony's gripes with Rej here are valid.

Tony is talking while he's on the chopping block. He isn't frantic. He doesn't strike me as someone angling for opportunity. He's just answering questions as they come and saying his piece.

Rej is not talking while he's on the chopping block. He's frozen.

Tony is talking while he's on the chopping block. He isn't frantic. He doesn't strike me as someone angling for opportunity. He's just answering questions as they come and saying his piece.

Rej is not talking while he's on the chopping block. He's frozen.

He’s posting memes, dare jokes and trying to push a Rej lynch...

What is Rej doing other than let you defend him?

Jackofhearts2005 answer the question.

What is Rej doing right now other than allow you to defend him?

That’s not the criteria for lynching someone.

Fire Emblem

Late Day 1

nutella is on the chopping block. I am defending her. I realize she is letting me do that without interfering. She's bad.

Don’t listen to you D1. Got it.

You're a better civilian than this and I hope you grow from it.

Convince me Tony is town.

Also Epi is like “Tony is a civ” but he isn’t doing anything about it. If Tony is a civ, that’s a problem.

I cannot convince you of something that I am not convinced of myself. Tony is a suspect. Rej is a suspect. Between the two I see one guy interacting with the game and the other sitting on his ass while you white knight him. I don't like that and I am trying to understand why you don't care.

nutella is also saying exactly nothing right now when it matters most.

Then the moment Rej votes Tony, Jay starts to scumread him.

Tony's explanation for Mac's vote and his read on Mac don't mesh well. The former implies town and the latter is mafia.

I don't have a good reason to say don't lynch Tony. He's having fun on the way out and that's easier to understand for a caught mafioso than a mislynched civilian.

sure [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

When "can we please have legacy" results in lolcat gifs, I feel pretty good.

Garbo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ironically, my decision to just vote Tony came when I realized that despite him being around, he was basically just letting me defend him/yell about Rej instead of doing it himself.

Roundabout.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Ironically, my decision to just vote Tony came when I realized that despite him being around, he was basically just letting me defend him/yell about Rej instead of doing it himself.

Roundabout.

So you were shouting to me that Rej had furry ears and then the camera panned over to Tony and his furry ears?

[nutella]

Oh good.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ironically, my decision to just vote Tony came when I realized that despite him being around, he was basically just letting me defend him/yell about Rej instead of doing it himself.

Roundabout.

So you were shouting to me that Rej had furry ears and then the camera panned over to Tony and his furry ears?

Actually yes, that’s pretty accurate!

This dude is doing exactly what you’re saying Rej is doing. #rememberfireemblem2k18

[Jackofhearts2005]

cOnVeNiEnT

[nutella]

Hey [mention]Long Con[/mention] you have a unique advantage assuming you are town. You can read the thread for the first time with the knowledge that Tony is mafia. Tell us what impressions you get.

[Creature]

Somehow we still got scum.

[Creature]

though, just realized my read on TSP was complete bullshit. I didn't realize I had initially townread him and just assumed he seemed meh.

[Creature]

Ugh, forgot to move off Epignosis

atleast it didn't affect the EOD outcome

[Creature]

Should we wait the night out or shall we start pointing fingers?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Should we wait the night out or shall we start pointing fingers?

Please point fingers as soon as possible and do not stop until you've no fingers left.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My only strong civilian reads at present are Dragomir and Jack.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Actually I'm not even going to call Jack a strong civilian read. Dude had no read at all on Tony until like 216 hours into the game.

Analyses after class.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Actually I'm not even going to call Jack a strong civilian read. Dude had no read at all on Tony until like 216 hours into the game.

Analyses after class.

Lol fight me hee ho!

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]nutella[/mention]
[mention]MacDougall[/mention]
[mention]Dragomir[/mention]
[mention]Rej[/mention]

Who was wolfin with Tony and why is the answer JaggedJimmyJay?

[Rej]

@nutella
@MacDougall
@Dragomir
@Rej

Who was wolfin with Tony and why is the answer JaggedJimmyJay?

I am with you, especially because it is easy to give townreads out to you and Dragomir for establishing the wagon on Tony. And suddenly his strongest townreads are you and Drago. LMAO.

[sprityo]

Ironically, my decision to just vote Tony came when I realized that despite him being around, he was basically just letting me defend him/yell about Rej instead of doing it himself.

Roundabout.

So you were shouting to me that Rej had furry ears and then the camera panned over to Tony and his furry ears?

Actually yes, that’s pretty accurate!

This dude is doing exactly what you’re saying Rej is doing. #rememberfireemblem2k18

the only thing i remember about that game besides losing after trying really hard, was when mac, epi, and myself all had btsc and lynched jay only for him to be civilian

[Jackofhearts2005]

Ironically, my decision to just vote Tony came when I realized that despite him being around, he was basically just letting me defend him/yell about Rej instead of doing it himself.

Roundabout.

So you were shouting to me that Rej had furry ears and then the camera panned over to Tony and his furry ears?

Actually yes, that’s pretty accurate!

This dude is doing exactly what you’re saying Rej is doing. #rememberfireemblem2k18

the only thing i remember about that game besides losing after trying really hard, was when mac, epi, and myself all had btsc and lynched jay only for him to be civilian

You were so obviously civ in that game (and in Mass Effect). I’m waiting for you to play like that again.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I loved writing a scene where Epi, Mac and Sprityo argued about who had stopped the mafia kill.

[sprityo]

Ironically, my decision to just vote Tony came when I realized that despite him being around, he was basically just letting me defend him/yell about Rej instead of doing it himself.

Roundabout.

So you were shouting to me that Rej had furry ears and then the camera panned over to Tony and his furry ears?

Actually yes, that’s pretty accurate!

This dude is doing exactly what you’re saying Rej is doing. #rememberfireemblem2k18

the only thing i remember about that game besides losing after trying really hard, was when mac, epi, and myself all had btsc and lynched jay only for him to be civilian

You were so obviously civ in that game (and in Mass Effect). I’m waiting for you to play like that again.

the stars will align someday, mostly it just takes me surviving until mid game when i can do vote analysis'

early game has never been my strong suit

[sprityo]

I'm like a cake, you gotta let it bake, then sit before it's delicious

[sprityo]

-JaggedJimmyJay
-Dragomir
-nutella
-Rej
-Long Con

-MacDougall
-Epignosis
-Jackofhearts2005
-TonyStarkPrime
-Creature

also for some reason im unable to use the buttons for color or the emojis, anyone got any idea why?

New list following day 1:

Good
-Dragomir
-Rej
-Epignosis
Ugly
-JaggedJimmyJay
-nutella
-Jackofhearts2005
Bad
-MacDougall
-Long Con
-Creature

We'll divide it into 3 since that makes a pretty, round list.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The only argument I see for Mac being scum is him saying he thinks I’m bussing Tony, which could be tmi.

Otherwise, his play has aligned pretty well with what I expect from townMac and he helped lynch Tony and I agreed with some of his reads.

Mac would have to do something awful for me to consider lynching him tomorrow.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm like a cake, you gotta let it bake, then sit before it's delicious

I kinda want to test this but Sprityo coasted late into Sockvale and Girl Genius.

[sprityo]

I'm like a cake, you gotta let it bake, then sit before it's delicious

I kinda want to test this but Sprityo coasted late into Sockvale and Girl Genius.

girl genius i didnt even play really

sockville i was just late due to circumstances, but you can't say i didnt hop in and do a good job

[Long Con]

Bad
-Long Con

Nope nope nope nope absolutely not. Lynching me would be very bad.

[sprityo]

Bad
-Long Con

Nope nope nope nope absolutely not. Lynching me would be very bad.

y

[Long Con]

Bad
-Long Con

Nope nope nope nope absolutely not. Lynching me would be very bad.

y

Becoz I'm just a harmless li'l Civ, and you wanna lynch big bad baddies.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bad
-Long Con

Nope nope nope nope absolutely not. Lynching me would be very bad.

y

Becoz I'm just a harmless li'l Civ, and you wanna lynch big bad baddies.

Oh crap! I want to lynch big baddies!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

k I will check the interactions now.

General request for our lovely player roster: if you suspect me, that's just gravy. Please please please though do not let that stop you from at least seeing what I have to say in these analyses. I don't care about your damned credit, but I do care about getting actual feedback and seeing how people feel about anything I may deem to be of interest. Okay super thanks.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mmmmmmm could mac and I both be right could it be Jay/Tony w/w
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

hmmmmmm

I'll take that dare

vote:JJJ

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and Creature

Spoiler: show

Let me guess:

Voting phase will take forever to start and when it does I'll have to pull something I know is completely bullshit to justify my vote when there's absolutely no need to.

If this weren’t Creature it’d seem like scum preemptively making excuses, but this is a legitimate form of complaint I think from our resident complainer and scum wouldn’t be quite so quick on the excuse? Lean town?

Vague WIFOM hedging. My instinct tells me it's decent for creature since Tony had to wrap his brain in a pretzel to lean town (TMI). I'm hesitant to think too deeply about it.

Spoiler: show

Jack is bad for making a post

okay seems reasonable vote:Jack

???

i a m j o k i n g

P l e a s e e x p a n d

i a m j o k i n g

k

[mention]Dragomir[/mention], the following spoiler explains why I like to say things like "k" in an ISO. Everyone else can move on unless you actually care.

Spoiler: show

Sometimes when I find an interaction or a post that just seems derpy, goofy, or wifomy and I find it incredulous, a simple "k" or "whatever" does nicely to convey that doubt. It isn't always necessary to go on a whole rant about little points. Likewise, I may not have an opinion on an interaction but still want to share it for posterity (like in this instance). So... k.

--

Spoiler: show

Let me guess:

Voting phase will take forever to start and when it does I'll have to pull something I know is completely bullshit to justify my vote when there's absolutely no need to.

If this weren’t Creature it’d seem like scum preemptively making excuses, but this is a legitimate form of complaint I think from our resident complainer and scum wouldn’t be quite so quick on the excuse? Lean town?

"If this weren't Creature it'd seem like scum preemptively making excuses"

Uh? You can change my name to any player and it remains the same. It's not AI anyway.

I disagree

I would like this exchange more from Creature if it featured more than just a response to Tony but also some kind of interpretation of Tony himself.

Spoiler: show

@
TonyStarkPrime, where are you at now in terms of reads? I reviewed your 53 posts and saw only a few:

[Creature lean town via WIFOM]
[Dragomir/Jack similar, slight orange]
[Epi GTH scum]

Do you still feel these reads? What about other people?

Well that’s a curated list feels like
Creature town, Rej slight town, Drago more scum than Jack or Epi, Nutella scummish Mac probably town no reads on anybody else

Town in the "curated" list. The WIFOM lean became concrete. On some level I wonder if this can be tied to a general propensity for Tony to generate reads contrary to consensus (like Dragomir as mafia). As such it'd say less about Creature and more about climate. It does nothing to harm or help his standing.

Spoiler: show

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

Did Tony include a/the teammate in this town core of three (Creature/Jack/Mac)? Could be. Among them, I would say Creature stands out simply for being lower in content. Mac stands out a bit less for having not been the "overlap on the lists" at this point. Jack does not stand out. If there is a teammate in this pile, I do think Creature looks like the guy just by the specific context of the post.

Spoiler: show

I read all of that. I might have comments on the morning. Creature is Town is the tldr but I already told you that so

The only comment Tony felt like sharing here was that Creature is town. I kinda like this for Creature. Like, why?

Spoiler: show

hmm so probably not drago/JJJ but maybe drago/epi or drago/creature
I just need to make a table

Tony tried to build fake Drago mafia teams and one of them featured Creature. It's hardly an "accusation". It's pretty much nothing.

Second-last on lynch priority list

~~~~~

Spoiler: show

Jack is bad for making a post

okay seems reasonable vote:Jack

???

Meh. Tony did a derpy thing, and Creature felt the need to respond to it with dramatic question marks. A little yucky.

Spoiler: show

Hold on am I voting twice in the poll?

This is town or I am being overconfident

What?

Spoiler: show

Okay, I can see TSP scum

Alrighty.

Spoiler: show

I don't remember anything towny from Tony either.

Except the last thing I guess.

Spoiler: show

I don't remember anything towny from Tony either.

What do you remember?

TSP is putting more effort to be townread this game.

Atleast earlier.

More criticism. It's not severe.

Spoiler: show

though, just realized my read on TSP was complete bullshit. I didn't realize I had initially townread him and just assumed he seemed meh.

lol

This is after Tony's death and flip, so consider that as you interpret. Transparency is great, though this is a lot of transparency. Complete bullshit.

~~~~~

Conclusion: It's a very mixed bag from Tony. Creature's own posts are hard to interpret. Overall I wouldn't feel comfortable pulling him from the suspect pool.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Spoiler: show

Death will grant you one spoilered "bluh" post, which may not contain game-relevant information.

you’ll never see it

COMIIINNNGGG

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One must also consider Creature's final vote, which remained on Epignosis through the deadline. Sideline votes are not ideal at face value. I don't recall the position of the tally when the vote was made though. Later I might try to piece that together if time permits.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and Dragomir

Spoiler: show

Ah you grouped them as both suspecting Jay. Drago came to it independently though while jack just sheeped me.

That’s worse. Scum puts in more effort. Drago came in, said something someone else had said, came up with basically the same reasoning, and that was it. I wouldn’t call that coming to it independently

“I said something stupid and you’re scum for pointing it out”

I don’t think it’s AI that you say it but Drago’s latch onto it seems opportunistic because it’s so obviously a blah argument

I townlean Rej for looking comfortable and cause Drago has not attempted to hadoken him yet.

(Also why Drago is scum)

@
TonyStarkPrime, where are you at now in terms of reads? I reviewed your 53 posts and saw only a few:

[Creature lean town via WIFOM]
[Dragomir/Jack similar, slight orange]
[Epi GTH scum]

Do you still feel these reads? What about other people?

Well that’s a curated list feels like
Creature town, Rej slight town, Drago more scum than Jack or Epi, Nutella scummish Mac probably town no reads on anybody else

Why am I in everyone's town reads? How am I in everyone's town reads?

Either you’re scum or scum decided that they want doctor bait is my guess

Drago more scum than [x]

Very against the grain.

If you could summarize your suspicion of Drago in a few words or a sentence, how might you do so?

Drago started with the “conveniently take the argument of someone else and then be surprised that you have the same argument” (town is disappointed to have the same argument as someone else)
Drago is behaving unlike he has in the two games I just played where he was town
Drago is doing the thing scum does when they get good day 1 reads and then try to compound on townie value by doing the exact same things

etc.

Tony chose Dragomir as his suspect to pursue all day. Dragomir was read as a civilian by nearly everyone else and was never getting lynched. Tony's move here strikes me as exclusively strategic -- go against the grain and hope it gets him some credit. In that regard I don't think this makes Dragomir look any better. Nor does it make him look any worse. I doubt he's Tony's teammate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and Epignosis

Spoiler: show

Funny Jay couldn't find a way to spin my Dolphins comment into a suspicion or vouch?

You're avoiding me. Like Cam Newton avoids questions.

This doesn’t track. Why would JJJ avoid you as scum? Why wouldn’t he as town?

Tony gripes at one of Epi's JJJ pokes. It's a gentle thing with no real follow-up. It does nothing for me.

Spoiler: show

I also don't really like that nutella humoured it. Maybe Epi is onto something with the Jay/Nut are the devil read.

I am Robert Kraft.

Rich, oiled up, and getting away with it.

No wait, that makes me mafia. Let me rethink this.

this means something

Does it though?

Spoiler: show

I also don't really like that nutella humoured it. Maybe Epi is onto something with the Jay/Nut are the devil read.

I am Robert Kraft.

Rich, oiled up, and getting away with it.

No wait, that makes me mafia. Let me rethink this.

this means something

What do you think it means?

gth scum

Ah, ok. I agree, because subconscious perspective slips are absolutely real. But the way you brought it up, waited for someone to ask, then awkwardly just said "gth scum" rubs me wrong. I'm confbiasing a bit since I already suspected you, but this looks like potential teammate distancing to me.

I almost went with the self aware scum is still scum line but I’m tired of having a bad catchphrase

Tony actually broadened that previous silly point to a mafia read. Fish, meet hook. Decent little look for Epignosis.

Spoiler: show

@
TonyStarkPrime, where are you at now in terms of reads? I reviewed your 53 posts and saw only a few:

[Creature lean town via WIFOM]
[Dragomir/Jack similar, slight orange]
[Epi GTH scum]

Do you still feel these reads? What about other people?

Well that’s a curated list feels like
Creature town, Rej slight town, Drago more scum than Jack or Epi, Nutella scummish Mac probably town no reads on anybody else

I have no idea why these reads were grouped this way. Someone else might draw something from it. At least I don't think it does Epi any favors.

"Sort out" GTH read -- weak.

Dead center in the voting priority

Spoiler: show

I don't think this is a particularly logical option I'm probably going to take it back next time I look at the thread.
Could JJJ be teamed with:

Creature? Sure but Creature is town
Drago? No
Epi? Seems actually likely
Jack? No
LongCon? Sure
Mac? that'd be insane but not completely unexpected
Nutella? No
Rej? probably not
Sprityo? Sure but Sprityo is town

The problem here is that JJJ cannot be a teammate of any of my top scum reads.

Stuck Epi on a potential mafia team with me, and it was the only such entry here that didn't feature a "but he's town" qualifier. Given that the climate around me was so negative, sticking anyone with me could by extension make their climate negative as well. Epi and I were both plausible enough counterwagons for much of the day, and this post indirectly promotes both. Another decent look, though I grant it requires layers.

Spoiler: show

rej vote: I reread him and found issue with the post where he responded to being asked about Drago I will go find it for you if you want
Epi vote: I was gonna vote for Rej and then I was like "nah if I vote for Epi maybe I can get him to join in this fiasco" and then I decided it was enough of a fiasco

This whole moment is of interest. Mac observed that Tony had briefly placed his vote on Epignosis before moving it to Rej. He never announced the Epi vote. This likely says something about one of the two, though I want to wait for the Rej analysis to decide how I feel.

~~~~~

Epi and Tony had an OT exchange about teaching. Click if you care.[/url]

Spoiler: show

People going Ndamukong Suh on Tony's ankles right out of the gate. Fun.

Indeed. This is a comment.

Will have to revisit

Spoiler: show

TonyStarkPrime- I read through his 81 posts again ( to Jack). I don't find TonyStarkPrime suspicious and would not lynch him Day 1.

Epi did revisit and landed on this -- a non-lynch read. It's not a stance on an alignment.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis, what has you trusting TSP?

I didn't say I trust him- I'm putting him in your boat. The H.M.S. BadDay1Lynch. TSP has always struck me as analytical, and that's more useful when there's more to analyze.

What makes TSP a good Day 1 lynch for you?

I don't like this one at all. All respect to Tony and the efforts he gives in Mafia games, but why is he (and only he) the guy in this game that is stuck next to me aboard the H.M.S. BadDay1Lynch? Keep in mind that Epignosis spent some time hounding MacDougall, who could also be said to belong aboard that boat. What? No bueno.

Spoiler: show

Does anyone townread Tony?

I feel like Mac and I are the only people who have done so this game.

I raise my hand.

Does anyone townread Tony?

I feel like Mac and I are the only people who have done so this game.

I raise my hand.

Why?

Oh ffs.

Read the shit I say.

I can't find the post where I talked about Tony. I know JJJ asked me about him.

Epignosis, what has you trusting TSP?

I didn't say I trust him- I'm putting him in your boat. The H.M.S. BadDay1Lynch. TSP has always struck me as analytical, and that's more useful when there's more to analyze.

What makes TSP a good Day 1 lynch for you?

Epignosis, what has you trusting TSP?

I didn't say I trust him- I'm putting him in your boat. The H.M.S. BadDay1Lynch. TSP has always struck me as analytical, and that's more useful when there's more to analyze.

What makes TSP a good Day 1 lynch for you?

Right that's the one I was just asking about. Is he a civilian read, or is he merely not someone you want to lynch due to his potential analytics?

He's a civilian.

This continues from the previous point. Jack asked if anyone townread Tony. Nobody really did to my memory. Epignosis raised his hand. Jack asked him why. Epi said "oh ffs, read the shit I say" -- this implies that in Epi's mind, he had already covered this. That is, he'd already covered "Tony is a civilian", not "Tony is a bad Day 1 lynch".

He hadn't already covered that. He went hunting for a post that doesn't exist and go figure he couldn't find it. He brought back the "bad day 1 lynch" post instead. It says nothing about trusting Tony, and indeed says exactly "I didn't say I trust him".

I pressed Epignosis on the distinction, and he finally clarified a read of "civilian". I have no idea why. It's not in this content. Bad look.

Spoiler: show

Nah, y'all can lynch Tony. I'm tired.

By this point the tide wasn't moving elsewhere, so the granting of permission means little. It was 12 minutes to the deadline, and only one counterwagon existed -- one that was not gaining any steam apart from my own anti-Rej shouting (and I was hardly trusted anyway).

~~~~~

Conclusion: There are a few bits in Tony's posts that I thought looked nice for Epignosis. They tend to require some degree of WIFOM or layers. I highlighted in pink the point that stands out to me most, and I think it's a bad look. Epignosis can be Tony's teammate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, Epi as a teammate of Tony makes further sense when recalling that awkward moment Mac caught -- Tony switched his vote off of me (after that goofy "I'll take that challenge" thing) to Rej and announced that. However, before voting Rej he had momentarily voted Epi and not announced it. I don't struggle to believe Tony was deciding between distance and counterwagon here, and opted in the end for counterwagon. I'll see if my Rej analysis gives me any reason to read that another way.

[nutella]

Also, Epi as a teammate of Tony makes further sense when recalling that awkward moment Mac caught -- Tony switched his vote off of me (after that goofy "I'll take that challenge" thing) to Rej and announced that. However, before voting Rej he had momentarily voted Epi and not announced it. I don't struggle to believe Tony was deciding between distance and counterwagon here, and opted in the end for counterwagon. I'll see if my Rej analysis gives me any reason to read that another way.

This and the pink thing have a nutella-approved amount of spice.

[nutella]

Meaning, yeah epi looks sketch af.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and Jack

Spoiler: show

Jack is bad for making a post

okay seems reasonable vote:Jack

Spoiler: show

What differentiates Jack and Drago for you?

Tony created this Jack/Drago dichotomy which turned into his semi-crusade against Dragomir. The reasoning was technically sound but not respectful of details or context. To me it looks like standard fake hunting, and as such I don't view either of the two better or worse inherently from it.

Spoiler: show

I don't understand why "top level mafiaplayer" make so many jokes and include fluff, they rather should leave space to get reads from others and intrigue the ones with a different alignment, this confuses me lol

Mostly cause it’s fun.

But also it keeps mafia from shooting me before I can catch them when I’m town, makes me look to chillax to be mafia when I’m scum and as both alignments, it invites weak sauce attacks that I can then evaluate or shade depending on my alignment.

Valid point in defense of fun

There are a few of these fun-related posts. Don't care.

Spoiler: show

@
TonyStarkPrime, where are you at now in terms of reads? I reviewed your 53 posts and saw only a few:

[Creature lean town via WIFOM]
[Dragomir/Jack similar, slight orange]
[Epi GTH scum]

Do you still feel these reads? What about other people?

Well that’s a curated list feels like
Creature town, Rej slight town, Drago more scum than Jack or Epi, Nutella scummish Mac probably town no reads on anybody else

We're back to this grouping. That Tony specifically opted for Dragomir as the better suspect than Jack from that dichotomy could be called protective. It's a reach, but yanno decide for yourselves.

Spoiler: show

Wish I knew how to read Sprityo or TSP.

Scum Jack doesn’t say this

Welp.

My immediate instinct here is to just believe Tony. Thanks for that.

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Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

I said earlier that Jack stands out least in this town core. It's kinda default following the previous comment. Whatever.

Spoiler: show

Back to buckets:

One of Rej of Drago
One or two of everyone else

I’m not voting for Mac he’s town and he’s better than I am so the cost benefit analysis doesn’t work out for self pres

Why are Rej and Drago antialigned?

Drago latches onto Rej early and frequently, if they’re both scum that wouldn’t have happened especially since the two are associated already in some ways. But both occupy lowish spaces on my tier list so it’s very likely that one is scum. I could see it go either way but my guess is Drago scum.

I feel like you’re making the case that they’re the same alignment...

As in that I have been making the case that they’re the same? I haven’t thought of it that way. Maybe I’m wrong to say that they’re not w/w but I don’t think so.

This exchange is a bit softball. Here's something to talk about, make a few posts why dontcha.

"Sort out" GTH read -- Weak. Also goofy after having called Jack town before. Maybe he wanted more suspects to work with.

Near the center of the voting priority / Slight drop

Spoiler: show

Drago/Jack feels right I think that's it someone write it down

Why Jack?

Drago spends a lot of time casually scumreading Jack as a second target and then asks him as a second target to vote with him. It gives me bad vibes. Gut feeling.

More fake hunting. Tony turned against Jack, but only on the basis of his contrarian suspicion of Dragomir. The vagueness of "it gives me bad vibes/gut feeling" are a decent look for Jack.

Spoiler: show

Drago is tunnelling off omgus and or is scum
nutella I have no clue but probably scum
Jack actually suspects me? I think he's town
Mac thinks jack is scum so he'll lynch me to prove it

I need stances. Are they civilians or not?

town
scum
town
scum

Town read as the phase winded down. Sure.

Spoiler: show

Tony wagon is pure.

WIFOM.

~~~~~

Spoiler: show

Both of them had similar entrances with the same set of views (steaming a scum read of you mostly). I would probably have tiered them about the same

Where does that tier reside on the civilian-mafia spectrum?

Slight orange- moderate lean scum.

Suspicion emoji. K.

Spoiler: show

TonyStarkPrime, what do you feel is the best indicator so far that you're innocent?

Pointless. Anything that he can point out is a thing he could fake.

If Tony is town, he needs to open himself to the universe town and show that his soul is pure and stuff.

Wish I knew how to read Sprityo or TSP.

If I'd said these, Jack would call it garbo.

Spoiler: show

I don’t think Epi is wolfin with Tony or Jay and I don’t think Jay is wolfin with LC either.

So my “four” player POE can be Jay, Epi, LC, Sprityo, Tony.

In the POE. Cool beans. I think he was in nearly everyone's, at least those who provided reads that could be viewed as "POE".

Spoiler: show

I don’t know what Nutella is trying to say there.

I’d vote either Tony or Epi over Rej. Easily.

Why do like 6 people suspect Jay but I’m the only one voting him?

This guy wanted a counterwagon too (his name was JJJ).

Spoiler: show

If day ended at present moment, I'm breaking onto Epi cause I've liked a few things Tony has said and then if Epi flips town, I'm using that to push my scumread on Jay cause Epi came out scumreading Jay for bad reasons and Jay pushed that as suspicious when I didn't think it really was. And if Epi flips scum, that probably clears Jay.

So if you're town, Epi, show me your the goods

More hypothetical garbo. *wears out grin emoji*

Spoiler: show

Mmmmmmm could mac and I both be right could it be Jay/Tony w/w
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

hmmmmmm

I'll take that dare

vote:JJJ

This is the kinda post I would make if I was W/W with Jay.

Tony knows his audience.

Spoiler: show

I’m annoyed at myself for not just voting Tony.

Things like this make me wish I really was mafia, because it'd be hilarious to compile a case comprised of these.

~~~~~

Conclusion: I had some fun in here. Don't interpret the emoji salad as "JJJ suspects Jack for this". I am inclined to dissociate him from Tony, frankly. Back into the good graces.

[MacDougall]

You civ read Jack for the distancey wafflebus eh?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You civ read Jack for the distancey wafflebus eh?

I'd love to see your case. Go crazy.