[TOWN WIN] Cool Bug Mafia

[Roxy]

The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

With additional context, I no longer believe that Wilgy doesn't make that kill anyway.

After all the spew talk you now take an oppo stance. Idk wtf to think rn lol

[_ExLight]

Even if you did hammer the gap between it and any other wagons were too large, at that point it feels somewhat natural for the scumbud to be in it if around EoD

[Roxy]

Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill

It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?

Given that from your perspective my path to victory as a wolf should be to get you and Ex miselimned, how would I be benefitting my wincon by clearing you?

Not that I did clear you but that's how you seemed to have perceived it.

I also *perceived* it the same way.

[DrWilgy]

Good morning.

[Wiml]

The narrative that me saying that Wilgy looks mildly good because his only vocal defender died (something I later changed my mind on) is somehow trying to pocket him is ridiculous.

That's just a regular townread point. By that logic, almost everyone in the game has pocketed almost everyone else.

Like, there's not even a given reason for why I'd want to pocket him as it wouldn't have any benefit for me. Nor is there any reason why I'd think that Wilgy would he susceptible to being pocketed if I were wolfing since the guy has already accused me of pocketing him every time I've expressed a reason why he might he town during the game.

So this whole thing is unfounded and nonsensical.

I don't usually respond to this stuff but it's getting pretty irritating atp.

[Roxy]

Abigail dies, the two that I find closest to PoE have opinions about it or are fixated on it. Doesn't seem quite the leap to thinking that there's agenda on it.

Yes but you don't seem to have put any thought into what that agenda would be.

I'm the one who brought up and you thought I was doing something that would be extremely -ev as a wolf who basically always would need to miselim you this game.

Meanwhile Ex's commentary was mostly in response to me and wasn't really pushing a whole lot that I've seen.

What sort of agenda is actually being pushed here? The only one seeming to be pushing one here is you.

The "agenda" felt like you were trying for a pocket attempt. tbf It is how the whole thing came across to me during my catch up.

[Wiml]

The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

why just Wigly tho? Not Michelle? Not me?

Because Abigail was his only vocal defender.

[_ExLight]

sounds a bit weird to attempt pocketing the person they'd likely push for in -Lo or today

[Roxy]

If Roxy has more wolf games in the last few years or really just whenever then I'd really like to see them.

The more games backing up the "Roxy doesn't bus" trend, the better. Two games isn't really a big enough same size to be certain.

Additionally, by the time Roxy voted Lime Coke had already gone into antispew and dipped from the thread. At that point, I think he would have encouraged any potential wolf mate to bus him.

gonna be hard to find recent games as took an almost decade break. I've been back for a few games mostly town told you both of my wolf games I won as a jester in a baby game. I am not sure how much more you would need as I have not even looked at any of your games bc they really do not matter to *this* game imo.

[Roxy]

If Roxy has more wolf games in the last few years or really just whenever then I'd really like to see them.

The more games backing up the "Roxy doesn't bus" trend, the better. Two games isn't really a big enough same size to be certain.

Additionally, by the time Roxy voted Lime Coke had already gone into antispew and dipped from the thread. At that point, I think he would have encouraged any potential wolf mate to bus him.

I hammered but I still understand this read.

[Roxy]

I am friends with Abgail and I'm aware that she will often be willing to trust me. Not only that but I'm pretty sure she said loud and clear that she said in-thread that she would defend me this game? We literally just came out of a game where I tried to help her win as arsonist. It's not fallacies, we got each other's back and I'm 100% sure she wouldn't hesitate to trust me when I say I'm Town.

I'll admit that with this context I think Ex killing Abigail is a lot less likely.

So a WEx Light would never kill PA?

[Wiml]

The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

With additional context, I no longer believe that Wilgy doesn't make that kill anyway.

After all the spew talk you now take an oppo stance. Idk wtf to think rn lol

Yes, because between those two posts Wilgy gave new information that made it clear that my initial stance was flawed.

Obviously under new information I change my read.

Also, I only said that I thought the kill looked good for Wilgy in one post (and another when asked to explain why). I don't strongly believe in it or make a big ordeal out of it.

Other people made a big ordeal about this throwaway read of mine after I went to bed. I wasn't present.

[Wiml]

This Wilgy read was not something I went on about. It's something that other people went on about on my behalf.

I never said half of these things so I can't defend them.

[Roxy]

The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

With additional context, I no longer believe that Wilgy doesn't make that kill anyway.

Ok, I was really curious about your answer because my take was the opposite.
Wilgy made an almost lock town read for Abigail, so if wolf Wilgy could never chop her/ insert her into the Poe, so I thought that if Wilgy is a wolf killing her makes the most sense.

I am sorry I am having trouble with the wording of this post. Can you help an old woman out and try and rephrase this for me?

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill

It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?

Given that from your perspective my path to victory as a wolf should be to get you and Ex miselimned, how would I be benefitting my wincon by clearing you?

Not that I did clear you but that's how you seemed to have perceived it.

Being townspewed is a light clear. I think it's very easy to compare the two.

I also think you'd not be the one to immediately kill Abigail. Assuming you are wolf your preferred f3s I think are in You, Ex, Rox or You, Abigail, Rox.

You taking me into f3 with any combination of Michelle/Rox/Abigail is a difficult game for W Wiml.

W Wiml is difficult with the Abigail kill rn.

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill

It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?

Manipulate you how?
And clear you how?

No, I want to gather more information from you and for that I need you to keep talking about what I think is relevant.

You can in asking about it immediately, Wiml had commentary on it immediately. All feels very agenda based on the NK that wolves control. You also ???'d Wiml saying I was spewed now. Your guess is as good as mine.

Given the above, I'm struggling to see this as real paranoia and not an attempt to throw shade at me.

Why? I joined thread to see both you and ex making me the subject matter of NKA? Who wouldn't be paranoid rn anyhow?

[DrWilgy]

Abigail dies, the two that I find closest to PoE have opinions about it or are fixated on it. Doesn't seem quite the leap to thinking that there's agenda on it.

Yes but you don't seem to have put any thought into what that agenda would be.

I'm the one who brought up and you thought I was doing something that would be extremely -ev as a wolf who basically always would need to miselim you this game.

Meanwhile Ex's commentary was mostly in response to me and wasn't really pushing a whole lot that I've seen.

What sort of agenda is actually being pushed here? The only one seeming to be pushing one here is you.

Was this one answered by continued reading?

[Roxy]

Pie is delicious.

So much better than cake.

GTFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kate is wrong.
Kate is always wrong in this scenario.
Kate hates Pie.
Kate is civ.
Yep these posts prove it to me.

Cake ftmfw

Could you explain what about those posts makes you think Kate is town please?

the great cake pie debate is from a decade ago on another mafia site. Idk how to explain it but when pie and cake are discussed by Kate she is usually town I know it seems a weird read but it makes total sense in my vibe style of playing.

I was fine with this explanation at the time but could you please explain this in more detail now?

It's just a vibe thing like I said Kte never makes this post as a baddie. No detail to give you as I am a vibe/gut player.

[Wiml]

Abigail dies, the two that I find closest to PoE have opinions about it or are fixated on it. Doesn't seem quite the leap to thinking that there's agenda on it.

Yes but you don't seem to have put any thought into what that agenda would be.

I'm the one who brought up and you thought I was doing something that would be extremely -ev as a wolf who basically always would need to miselim you this game.

Meanwhile Ex's commentary was mostly in response to me and wasn't really pushing a whole lot that I've seen.

What sort of agenda is actually being pushed here? The only one seeming to be pushing one here is you.

The "agenda" felt like you were trying for a pocket attempt. tbf It is how the whole thing came across to me during my catch up.

Again:

How could one town point in favour of somebody (something I've done probably a hundred separate times this game) and then explaining that town point be a pocket attempt moreso than any other time I did this during the game?

How would townreading/pocketing Wilgy there even benefit me? He's somebody I'd almost certainly need to convince people to vote if I was wolfing anyway.

[_ExLight]

I am friends with Abgail and I'm aware that she will often be willing to trust me. Not only that but I'm pretty sure she said loud and clear that she said in-thread that she would defend me this game? We literally just came out of a game where I tried to help her win as arsonist. It's not fallacies, we got each other's back and I'm 100% sure she wouldn't hesitate to trust me when I say I'm Town.

I'll admit that with this context I think Ex killing Abigail is a lot less likely.

So a WEx Light would never kill PA?

Never is probably a bit of a strong word.
But if I were mafia trying to guarantee a win I'd probably shoot Wiml or Michelle because they seem very townie to me based on D1. If I were feeling dicey I'd probably be more likely to shoot Wilgy.

If I were to shoot Neon it would probably be at N4 if I'm extra dicey and wanting to cause chaos in the -Lo.

[Roxy]

have had an wild afternoon and need to get Ariya fast. So I have to vote now vote limey
I cannot read him one way or the other except the disappearing act is never a good sign. I'll thank Wiml for this if we get a hit but will not blame them if we don't. I do like their case and felt they have the knowledge of Limey that I just don't.

This vote is well set up prior to this and makes sense from Roxy's perspective as a villager.

The issue is that the vote itself comes *after* Lime Coke's final post with the vote on me. At that point in time, it's clear that Lime Coke thought he was doomed no matter what and I'm sure that if it was brought up in wolf chat he would have encouraged his partner to bus him if they were not bussing him at that point already. The guy had literally given up, after all.

So it's unfortunately way more difficult to clear Roxy on the basis of this vote than it would be to do so for an earlier vote.

I thought I was their hammer as well like with Quin. I cannot be sure now and will have to reread myself to remember.

But I was iffy bc I had never played with either of you and trusting someone new to the site is a big thing for me so I went with it bc you seemed so sure and Lime had dipped out and never returned to answer anyone's questioning.

[DrWilgy]

@Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?

No, I don't think they ever played together so he wouldn't how she interacts with me.

Aye, I think the only two to know this would get you and me, unless somehow she just got hit in the crossfire, but I don't know what would cause that.

I think though, if my goal is to really separate you and Abigail, I NK you instead and hope Abigail doesn't waver.

Is that the type of analysis you are looking for?

I think there's all of 0 chance you NK Ex there tbh.

Pretty sure I 100% NK Ex or Roxy. My preferred f3 would always be Abigail/Me/Michelle, Abigail/Me/Roxy, Abigail/Me/You in that order of preference I think.

If Ex+Abigail was still around today, I think my posture would be to push you and only break up Ex+Abigail once I've utilized it.

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy regardless of whatever conclusion I come to on Roxy once I've finished at stuff I'd definitely appreciate a full towncase on her from you detailing why she's a villager and why I should sheep you.

Blah, I'd need to be convinced to throw out more than I've already, but maybe if the Wednesday hellscape calms down.

[Wiml]

If Roxy has more wolf games in the last few years or really just whenever then I'd really like to see them.

The more games backing up the "Roxy doesn't bus" trend, the better. Two games isn't really a big enough same size to be certain.

Additionally, by the time Roxy voted Lime Coke had already gone into antispew and dipped from the thread. At that point, I think he would have encouraged any potential wolf mate to bus him.

gonna be hard to find recent games as took an almost decade break. I've been back for a few games mostly town told you both of my wolf games I won as a jester in a baby game. I am not sure how much more you would need as I have not even looked at any of your games bc they really do not matter to *this* game imo.

Thank you. The games matter within the context of Wilgy attempting to clear you on the basis of meta but me thinking I want a larger sample size than 2 games.

If Roxy has more wolf games in the last few years or really just whenever then I'd really like to see them.

The more games backing up the "Roxy doesn't bus" trend, the better. Two games isn't really a big enough same size to be certain.

Additionally, by the time Roxy voted Lime Coke had already gone into antispew and dipped from the thread. At that point, I think he would have encouraged any potential wolf mate to bus him.

I hammered but I still understand this read.

You definitely didn't hammer, D1 continued after that point. Wilgy voted Abigail and Epi voted Lime.

I am friends with Abgail and I'm aware that she will often be willing to trust me. Not only that but I'm pretty sure she said loud and clear that she said in-thread that she would defend me this game? We literally just came out of a game where I tried to help her win as arsonist. It's not fallacies, we got each other's back and I'm 100% sure she wouldn't hesitate to trust me when I say I'm Town.

I'll admit that with this context I think Ex killing Abigail is a lot less likely.

So a WEx Light would never kill PA?

After thinking about it more, he probably still would if he was worried that Abigail would find his alignment.

So it's just a null overall.

[Roxy]

I said this previously Ex but I think Roxy attributing the Lime Coke flip to me/Falcon (but not JJJ) and then shading JJJ during D2 (having him 4th in her PoE and then criticising his lack of a hammer) make killing JJJ over me weird.

Yeah JJJ that day had me thinking they were bad. I truly believed when I made the post about JJJ not voting made me think he was bussing and pushing Lime for civ cred. I was wrong but that was my mind at the time.

[Roxy]

Wait, Roxy gives new players D1 passes so that means she probably wouldn't have been willing Roxy N1 me, right?

And since she attributed the Lime Coke elim to Falcon but not as much JJJ I guess that the N1K at least makes a lot of sense from her as a wolf since JJJ and I both wouldn't be on her NK radar.

it was a bit to falcon but mostly you as I said so in my vote post.

[_ExLight]

@Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?

No, I don't think they ever played together so he wouldn't how she interacts with me.

Aye, I think the only two to know this would get you and me, unless somehow she just got hit in the crossfire, but I don't know what would cause that.

I think though, if my goal is to really separate you and Abigail, I NK you instead and hope Abigail doesn't waver.

Is that the type of analysis you are looking for?

That's a better one, yea.
Answer without thinking much, what you think my winrate is as Town?

wtaf? lmao I do not think I have ever seen this question asked in a game. It does not give me warm fuzzies.

Lmfao I know it sounds weird and maybe even a bit cocky but I swear it's just so I can assess how players view my slot better

[Roxy]

I am terribly sorry but I went through the worst storm of my life, was stuck in my car for hours as live electrical poles and wires sizzled around several cars. WE were then taken to a firehall until the lines could be shut down and poles moved so we could leave in our cars then I went home to no power or internets while I did have internet yesterday while at work I was busy (yes too busy to post)

I am going to do my best today <3

Understandable, I'm glad you're alright!

Thank you <3 It was soooo scary!

[Wiml]

Abigail dies, the two that I find closest to PoE have opinions about it or are fixated on it. Doesn't seem quite the leap to thinking that there's agenda on it.

Yes but you don't seem to have put any thought into what that agenda would be.

I'm the one who brought up and you thought I was doing something that would be extremely -ev as a wolf who basically always would need to miselim you this game.

Meanwhile Ex's commentary was mostly in response to me and wasn't really pushing a whole lot that I've seen.

What sort of agenda is actually being pushed here? The only one seeming to be pushing one here is you.

Was this one answered by continued reading?

Yeah, you can ignore these as I got the answers on reread.

[DrWilgy]

Abigail NK makes sense when I just think on it. It accomplishes alot I think, Abigail has Roxy and I as TR (that you seem more than happy to leap on now). Abigail also knowing you I think could crack the game open by forming a conclusion on you.

I agree. Her townreads of you, Michelle and I then being the NK is obv to me. It was made so all this posturing could happen.

For ExLite to think that PA would have townread them OVER you is really a lot to swallow and except, bc I do not except that thought at all.

I mean, I accept it IF Ex is T. I think the play between T Rem and T Abigail in JJJ's first dates indicates as such if you are willing to reference that.

However, that's a big if and still makes the point null as W Ex just as easily kills Abigail to drain that meta resource.

[DrWilgy]

My PoE was and is You and Wiml (has been my 'I might be wrong' for a minute now). Wiml goes from having me as the counter to now spewed. I think it's reasonable to see the agenda of 'Wiml killed Abigail and is now raising that as a positive to me to pocket me.' Further, you ask specifically for my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if I've seen your own conclusion for it yet, thus it's also reasonable for me to question 'Ex killed Abigail and is questioning me specifically, what are they hoping to impress upon me?' I have no resistance to discussing it, but both you AND wiml's discussion had me as a subject thus leading to questioning.

Pulled this quote out of a response to ExLite.

I thought the spewed thing was weird. PA had Me, Michelle and you in her trust circle for awhile. For Wiml to just pull you along as spewed read as a pocket attempt to try and get you to side with them for whatever their agenda is today.

It is why I hate pockets or attempts to pocket.

I agree with this. I don't know why you weren't included in the NKA threadspew. Maybe I'll see something related on catchup. If the thought was 'Kill Abigail who's now consensus TR and butter up Wilgy' when making the kill, it makes alot of sense if the fact it'd spew you T in likeness was forgotten.

[DrWilgy]

I think that's all my notifies. I'll skim the last few pages later.

[Roxy]

In general Roxy, I'm very interested in hearing where your head's at and chatting with you when you're around.

Another thing I was meaning to ask: in your opinion, how valid is Wilgy's meta read on you? Is it true that you wouldn't have voted Lime Coke there as mafia?

I am here until my meeting then I'll be back later in the afternoon before elim.

Wigly's read is his own. I do not know how valid he feels it to be but he is right. Tbph I am not sure what I would have done as wolf (I am town this game), I do not normally vote my baddie buddies this much is true and verifiable so I doubt I would have but I would have been very busy trying to get someone else in a case to twist up that elim to anyone besides my teammate.

[Wiml]

I think Roxy just townslipped.

[_ExLight]

I think Roxy just townslipped.

yea? imma listening

[Wiml]

I fully believe that Roxy thought that she hammered Lime Coke.

And like

How does a wolf not realise that their wolf buddy in mafia chat isn't dead?

Let me chew on this some more.

[Roxy]

<<<<<<<<<<<snippy snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

oml I don't hate you on a personal level, you seem like an enjoyable person and I'm sure you're a good player

I'm just uncomfortable with the lack I'd personally consider to be AI, in particular the lack of stuff I'd consider towny from your posts

I am sorry I am not doing what I should. What "stuff" are you looking for? This feels like I am being put in the shade.

[Wiml]

Roxy is absolutely not the type to fake not knowing the hammer rules.

So her being a wolf is possible but you'd have to argue that she managed to get by several hours without Lime Coke saying anything in wolf chat.

Maaaaybe that's possible? But I think that's a point in her favour.

[_ExLight]

<<<<<<<<<<<snippy snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

oml I don't hate you on a personal level, you seem like an enjoyable person and I'm sure you're a good player

I'm just uncomfortable with the lack I'd personally consider to be AI, in particular the lack of stuff I'd consider towny from your posts

I am sorry I am not doing what I should. What "stuff" are you looking for? This feels like I am being put in the shade.

I mean I do be throwing some shade because my personal PoE is you and Wigly.

And like, you're doing fine rn but your D1 content was a lot of fluff like pie talk and barely any reads other than Kate??? Lack of more dynamic or elaborated votes for me to analyze too. And then your activity dropped so much D2 and D3!!

[Roxy]

Abgail didn't die as a WTF kill. Nobody did so far.

Falcon was obviously Town because Lime only got FUCKED because he trying to push for his lynch with the jankiest arguments. JJJ was pretty much towncleared as well because they hounded the shit outta Lime. Abgail was likely picked because she wasn't in the PoE the thread been pushing for - everyone remaining here was discussed to some degree (with exception of maybe Michelle?), which makes pretty clear the last scum is either controlling the PoE narrative or at the very least keeping a close eye on the thread.
Which by the way is wild as fuck because I was certain Wiml was gonna get shot because that D1 interaction is definitely a townclear in my book, but I guess people throwing the weird shade and saying nonsense about them being potential mafia was enough to avert a kill.

Wiml looks way better during the Lime elim than JJJ.

Abigail was killed bc she was widely regarded as IC. Her last list of trust kind of puts me in a position to maybe follow them but tbh we have rarely worked together and the first time we do she gets NK'ed.

Why did you think that Abi died over Michelle or you when you were both arguably more townread than her?

I was never more town read than PA at least it never felt that way. I felt she was like an IC in this game and that is why I believe she was killed.

[Wiml]

@DrWilgy regardless of whatever conclusion I come to on Roxy once I've finished at stuff I'd definitely appreciate a full towncase on her from you detailing why she's a villager and why I should sheep you.

Blah, I'd need to be convinced to throw out more than I've already, but maybe if the Wednesday hellscape calms down.

If your read is 1. correct and 2. is well reasoned enough that it convinces me that I can sheep you then that solves the game for me right then and there.

At that point I'm pretty confident that this game ends in a town win.

[Roxy]

Roxy, very important question but on a 1-10 scale how much do you townread Wiml and who would you vote if Wilgy flipped Town?

Wigly is town after the last elim 100% of the time.

Wiml the eod was made a bit scattershot bc of there vote jumping. It gave me bad vibes when reading it. Wiml town 40% of the time.

[Wiml]

Roxy, very important question but on a 1-10 scale how much do you townread Wiml and who would you vote if Wilgy flipped Town?

Wigly is town after the last elim 100% of the time.

Wiml the eod was made a bit scattershot bc of there vote jumping. It gave me bad vibes when reading it. Wiml town 40% of the time.

How is Wilgy 100% town from that EoD?

[_ExLight]

Roxy, very important question but on a 1-10 scale how much do you townread Wiml and who would you vote if Wilgy flipped Town?

Wigly is town after the last elim 100% of the time.

Wiml the eod was made a bit scattershot bc of there vote jumping. It gave me bad vibes when reading it. Wiml town 40% of the time.

aight thanks was waiting for this reply

[_ExLight]

Abgail didn't die as a WTF kill. Nobody did so far.

Falcon was obviously Town because Lime only got FUCKED because he trying to push for his lynch with the jankiest arguments. JJJ was pretty much towncleared as well because they hounded the shit outta Lime. Abgail was likely picked because she wasn't in the PoE the thread been pushing for - everyone remaining here was discussed to some degree (with exception of maybe Michelle?), which makes pretty clear the last scum is either controlling the PoE narrative or at the very least keeping a close eye on the thread.
Which by the way is wild as fuck because I was certain Wiml was gonna get shot because that D1 interaction is definitely a townclear in my book, but I guess people throwing the weird shade and saying nonsense about them being potential mafia was enough to avert a kill.

Wiml looks way better during the Lime elim than JJJ.

Abigail was killed bc she was widely regarded as IC. Her last list of trust kind of puts me in a position to maybe follow them but tbh we have rarely worked together and the first time we do she gets NK'ed.

honestly yea and JJJ readslist was super off on D2 so keeping him around for him to push them would make sense. I have no idea why JJJ was killed before Wiml but since my theory was that they wanted to go over both then it doesn't matter much, I think? I still think they might've gone for a change of plans to keep Wiml around after N3 because Wilgy and Michelle started throwing shade at that slot a lot, while Neon was less under scrutiny.

And while not under much suspicion, she was definitely less townread than Michelle or you from the impression I got. I do find a bit weird that it was chosen over you both, and the only explanation I can think of is that they wanted to keep Michelle around in an attempt to push for a Wilm lynch.

[Roxy]

My PoE was and is You and Wiml (has been my 'I might be wrong' for a minute now). Wiml goes from having me as the counter to now spewed. I think it's reasonable to see the agenda of 'Wiml killed Abigail and is now raising that as a positive to me to pocket me.' Further, you ask specifically for my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if I've seen your own conclusion for it yet, thus it's also reasonable for me to question 'Ex killed Abigail and is questioning me specifically, what are they hoping to impress upon me?' I have no resistance to discussing it, but both you AND wiml's discussion had me as a subject thus leading to questioning.

Pulled this quote out of a response to ExLite.

I thought the spewed thing was weird. PA had Me, Michelle and you in her trust circle for awhile. For Wiml to just pull you along as spewed read as a pocket attempt to try and get you to side with them for whatever their agenda is today.

It is why I hate pockets or attempts to pocket.

No, PA had me, you and Wilgy in her trust circle. Not Michelle.

thank you for this clarification it helps me calm my nerves *slightly* where you are concerned.

[Wiml]

My PoE was and is You and Wiml (has been my 'I might be wrong' for a minute now). Wiml goes from having me as the counter to now spewed. I think it's reasonable to see the agenda of 'Wiml killed Abigail and is now raising that as a positive to me to pocket me.' Further, you ask specifically for my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if I've seen your own conclusion for it yet, thus it's also reasonable for me to question 'Ex killed Abigail and is questioning me specifically, what are they hoping to impress upon me?' I have no resistance to discussing it, but both you AND wiml's discussion had me as a subject thus leading to questioning.

Pulled this quote out of a response to ExLite.

I thought the spewed thing was weird. PA had Me, Michelle and you in her trust circle for awhile. For Wiml to just pull you along as spewed read as a pocket attempt to try and get you to side with them for whatever their agenda is today.

It is why I hate pockets or attempts to pocket.

I agree with this. I don't know why you weren't included in the NKA threadspew. Maybe I'll see something related on catchup. If the thought was 'Kill Abigail who's now consensus TR and butter up Wilgy' when making the kill, it makes alot of sense if the fact it'd spew you T in likeness was forgotten.

Not super sure why the kill would spew Roxy town since she had at least two other vocal defenders yesterday.

Meanwhile you had one and she died.

[Roxy]

The one thing I did ask more broadly and that I'd appreciate Wiml's comment would be an answer on my request for non-meta reasons to townread you (Wilgy) or Roxy in the current game.

Read JJJ's ISO if you want that.

My Roxy read is meta and gut. If Roxy bus'd LC there was quite literally 0 posturing around that. I feel that W Roxy would've made a bigger deal of it ESPECIALLY if they went out of their meta so hard to bus.

Again, I'm asking for original thoughts. Why do I have to read JJJ's thoughts if I'm asking for the ones of the current players? You've been pushing his PoE for the past 3 Days and it was a full Town group, I think it's pretty clear at this point his D2 ISOs weren't reliable.

You don't have any non-meta reason to townread her? If she didn't do a single significantly town thing in this game why are you clearing them?

this reads as ExLite twisting the post up to mean want they want it mean when Wigly's thoughts have been quite clear.

1. I struggle a bit with English so I might not express myself as clearly as I wished for
2. I am not familiar with Mafia jargon and verbiage so I'll often ask for information to be dumbed down
3. I mainly asked two things, their opinion on the kill, and a non-meta read on you. Throwing loose terms like "agenda" and "manipulate" don't explain anything. If they felt like there was such a thing going in play I'd appreciate if they took their time to elaborate on the thoughts rather than be ominously vague about something as conspiracy-like as people discussing the kill being an evil plot. They did make a post I considered better on later on where they elaborated a lot on what they meant, in a way closer to what I was looking for.
As for the asking them for THEIR take on you, I'd appreciate if they found proper non-meta and in-game reasons for their read. If all they had were meta reads and gut feelings like they said then it means they don't have something like a read or vote you made that stood out, as such it clearly doesn't hold the case for me. They later mentioned that they didn't think you'd bus Lime, which is more tangible, but that vote personally didn't make much of an impression to me because Lime's fate was sealed already by then.

and thank you for the clarifications you have made in your responses to me.

[_ExLight]

The comment on Abgail being pretty much IC and on Wilm being 40% town make me scumread Roxy's slot a bit more, because it explains the nightkill to me.

I also find a bit weird that despite her towncoring my slot she wasn't a very active defender of Kate after people started discussing putting her on PoE.

I don't know about the hammering comment being a possible townslip?

[Roxy]

Even if you did hammer the gap between it and any other wagons were too large, at that point it feels somewhat natural for the scumbud to be in it if around EoD

I do totes agree with post but me as a baddie would have made a case on someone and really would have tried to save them on D 1 with a bit of chaos around their elim. I always want to have all my baddie team alive at the end of game.