Cartomancy [Game Over]

[sig]

@sig
@Jackofhearts2005
@Roxy
@fingersplints
@falcon45ca

Alison flips town > who are the wolves on your wagon? Who are the town?

Alison flips wolf > who bussed? who is pure?

Well I’ll say it’s possible for us all to be civ unless mafia is also up to be voted off. However, I’d eye Falcon or Splints the most of us.

If she flips mafia then Myself and Jack are town for sure and I’d say roxy looks very good. But, given the game State I think it would depend on Indy player style whether they’d bus or even vote for a top wagon.


Realistically I’d say the players voting off major wagons should be eyed closely if Alison doesn’t flip mafia and we aren’t thinking the counter wagons are mafia either

[Spacedaisy]

I have been asked this question privately, and I am going to answer it publicly. If the godfather has the most votes at the end of the day, the person with the second most votes will be eliminated in their place.

I apologize for delay, I've been dealing with some stuff since I got up.

Ok, someone pointed out a situation I hadn't considered, which I appreciate. Unfortunately there is a balance issue with the Godfather, so what will happen instead is no chop will happen if the Godfather is the leading wagon. However, once this happens, the night kill will be able to be carried out by any member of the mafia team from that point on.

I apologize profusely guys, for not noticing earlier. Please PM if you have questions.

TLDR:
Godfather/Zealot gets most votes = no chop and the kill is no longer exclusively carried out by Zealot.

[DrWilgy]

Voted [VOTE: Baudib] aubergine to tie it up with Jack. Show me something amazing.

Do you really think Baudib is mafia? I'd love an explanation on this.

See above. I'd say it's like a 70% read.

Oh also the above doesn't even include the early Kate wagon shit. Early Kate wagon and me thinking Kate is 90% town now has me really think to solve between Creature and Baudib.

[MacDougall]

This game has all the traits of tvt violence and in a way that would be quite difficult for the mafia to justify getting involved in. Players like Wilgy, Roxy and Falcon are coming across like they have an obscene amount of town self entitlement even if I disagree with them (and was scumreading them), and on the flipside so does Baudib, Lucy etc.

What is the major hypotheses being debated?

Alison is mafia
Lucy should be trusted/listened to
A giant group of players who are opposite aligned to Alison are all scummy/bad/wrong/annoying

What is not being discussed?

Fingersplints is scummy as hell
Kate didn't get any townier at all
SPF's casing of Creature is being largely ignored and if he was town, I'd expect the mafia to be shining a lot on it
Tutuu/Neon capping early
Rondo's weird as hell holding of the Oracle claim

I am very tempted to townread and largely ignore everyone who is giving heaps of fucks about the former set of theorum and want to cast my glare at the people who are more passive at the moment, particularly those whose names are in the above.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

This is a bit reactionary, but I don’t like Lucy’s insistence here it’s game over or “throwing” if Alison is voted. No one person is game ending.

fingersplints didnt you just tell me like 24 hours ago that you thought alison and baub were town vs town.....? so do u believe this and ur voting alison for the sake of proving a point to lucy? or do u actually sr alison now?

I did not plan on voting her at the time. I said I thought it was a playstyle clash. But I also think now one of those need to resolved or else it will plague us the entire game. And I like the posts of the other players with votes more than her.
And also yes, I disagree with Lucy’s posts

How can anyone read this justification and think that is legit?

[RondoDimBuckle]

Here's the patented Mac rub.

A lot of people are less playing mafia with a town process and more throwing out thought bubbles and have perspectives that make my lip curl up and make me wish they were playing a different mafia game I'm not in. I begrudge nobody for suspecting or hating the play of these folks.

Wilgy
Jack
Neon
Tutuu
Seanzie
Falcon
Creature

Then there are people who are just like ... not doing much of anything and aren't really redeemable but for whatever reason it seems like there's a moratorium on suspecting them.

Roxy
Finger
Kate

Then there are some players who aren't doing much but they kinda town.

Bereft
Porscha
Dennis

And then there's everyone else. We shall call them "folks who appear to be playing a game of mafia and not a game of scrabble". I like all of them and if you are voting them ur a nerd.

If your name is in the top group and you are town please have a strong coffee, freshly evaluate the game and make some posts that are designed purposefully to be read and understood by a belligerent old townie person so I can stop hating your existence.

Thanks.

Mac is this still how you feel?

Town/No yeet==
Alison (she/her)
Baudib1 (he/him)
lucy (she/her)
RondoDimBuckle (any/Rondo)
sig (he/him)
staypositivefriend (she/her)

Kinda town==
Bereft
Porscha
Dennis

null==
Roxy
Finger
Kate

scum/yeet==
Wilgy
Jack
Neon
Tutuu
Seanzie
Falcon
Creature


What are your opinions on sig, Jackofhearts2005, Roxy, fingersplints, falcon45ca for voting Alison and how does that change the above list?

be back in 40 minutes, to explain myself i now trust alison's read as roxy is being scummy as fuck
the level 2 reason i switched to roxy is because of the 2 votes already on roxy, since it's looking like roxy/alison wagons today
the level 3 reason is alison's alignment will become more clear after roxy flips, and roxy probbaly flips scum

You cannot read anyone.

This is not helpful to me not wanting to yeet you. Trying to antagonise Lucy is a anti-town at best and straight scum at worst. If you are trying to tilt a town that is a town leader you are trying to keep them from looking elsewhere or bait them into voting you. Roxy could be Zealot from how she is playing imho. Please fact check me anyone else.

also i know i said i thought sig could be mafia but i ISO'd him and changed my mind

show your work

ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there

i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm

What wagon(s) would you prefer instead?

i perceive the pool of creature/splints/falcon/sig as being likely to contain at least 2 wolves

I would guess you are probably correct.

I would say of the people casing/pushing me, Rondo is almost certainly town; Seanzie feels genuine; Falcon seems extremely sus. Bereft feels pure and his casing of Falcon was solid work.

Splints/sig/wilgy are flying utr.

Roxy seems rand to me; I think the pushback on Alison is likely at least partially wolf-driven though that doesn't mean much for Roxy's alignment imo.

Pretty tough to yeet mafia in this game state with 5 living so if you want to move to another wagon please @me, i'm out of posts. Who else do you trust?

i townread mac, lucy, bereft, tutuu, you, and sig roughly in that order. i'm not willing to vote for alison today even though i'm not sure about her alignment

i had fingersplints as a light townlean but she just hopped on alison in a way that extremely rubs me the wrong way

rest of the game feels kind of inscrutable to me rn

If you town read lucy why do you not town read me? What is your opinion on all the current wagons?


Additionally Wilgy has reignited my sus on Bau.

@sig
@Jackofhearts2005
@Roxy
@fingersplints
@falcon45ca

Alison flips town > who are the wolves on your wagon? Who are the town?

Alison flips wolf > who bussed? who is pure?

Well I’ll say it’s possible for us all to be civ unless mafia is also up to be voted off. However, I’d eye Falcon or Splints the most of us.

If she flips mafia then Myself and Jack are town for sure and I’d say roxy looks very good. But, given the game State I think it would depend on Indy player style whether they’d bus or even vote for a top wagon.


Realistically I’d say the players voting off major wagons should be eyed closely if Alison doesn’t flip mafia and we aren’t thinking the counter wagons are mafia either

I currently feel like Falcon is town, can you scum case him? I also feel like Splints is town can you scum case them?

Why is Jack town? Why not w/w Alison/Jack? or w/w Roxy/Alison? I say this because I have meta on Alison that she loves to do this kind of stuff to get unaligned with partners so when she flips it looks bad. But its just wifom I guess.

Tell me about the counter wagons then, do you think they are town? Are the people on them more or less likely wolf?

[RondoDimBuckle]

Voted [VOTE: Baudib] aubergine to tie it up with Jack. Show me something amazing.

Do you really think Baudib is mafia? I'd love an explanation on this.

See above. I'd say it's like a 70% read.

Oh also the above doesn't even include the early Kate wagon shit. Early Kate wagon and me thinking Kate is 90% town now has me really think to solve between Creature and Baudib.

What did you think of my case on Bau?

[Seanzie]

This game has all the traits of tvt violence and in a way that would be quite difficult for the mafia to justify getting involved in. Players like Wilgy, Roxy and Falcon are coming across like they have an obscene amount of town self entitlement even if I disagree with them (and was scumreading them), and on the flipside so does Baudib, Lucy etc.

What is the major hypotheses being debated?

Alison is mafia
Lucy should be trusted/listened to
A giant group of players who are opposite aligned to Alison are all scummy/bad/wrong/annoying

What is not being discussed?

Fingersplints is scummy as hell
Kate didn't get any townier at all
SPF's casing of Creature is being largely ignored and if he was town, I'd expect the mafia to be shining a lot on it
Tutuu/Neon capping early
Rondo's weird as hell holding of the Oracle claim

I am very tempted to townread and largely ignore everyone who is giving heaps of fucks about the former set of theorum and want to cast my glare at the people who are more passive at the moment, particularly those whose names are in the above.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

This is a bit reactionary, but I don’t like Lucy’s insistence here it’s game over or “throwing” if Alison is voted. No one person is game ending.

fingersplints didnt you just tell me like 24 hours ago that you thought alison and baub were town vs town.....? so do u believe this and ur voting alison for the sake of proving a point to lucy? or do u actually sr alison now?

I did not plan on voting her at the time. I said I thought it was a playstyle clash. But I also think now one of those need to resolved or else it will plague us the entire game. And I like the posts of the other players with votes more than her.
And also yes, I disagree with Lucy’s posts

How can anyone read this justification and think that is legit?

I would vote for Kate.

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy I don't know how you go about social interactions, but i'm autistic so socializing is hard, i come into every social interaction with an agenda, usually for nothing if not for it to be normal

i am good at chess and come into an agenda before "rand"

i am strong at calculating and i've calculated out everything already, i am sorry if this is foreign play to you, but why the fuck are you doing what you're doing?

Aye, even so, if I see data pushing people certain directions, but I don't see what lead them along that path, then what am I to assume?

Like I get having a "game plan" but you've pushed for people to get off Alison and onto me for reasons I didn't see, (I asked you about these), you've jumped very quickly between multiple people and the dots do not connect to me. The only one that I have drawn a logical conclusion to you getting to is your read on Roxy, and I believe that comes from discourse in Mafia playstyle.

[MacDougall]

Spoiler replies to mass amounts of tags

Hello, good evening.

Just checking in as I haven't really read since I left earlier, just did some quick skimming.

@lucy, you advised people off Alison and onto me. Why me in particular? I don't think I saw the reason if it was given.

@MacDougall what's your read on Neon? How about Falcon? Why?

Why do you ask?

I don't think I need to provide a reason here. Why would I? Are we playing 5d chess?

Given I dislike the line of enquiry, unless you have a hypothesis you are going to share with me I'm not going to humour you with a response. Not that it's all that relevant anymore.

My tinfoil is that Jack and Alison are w/w.

What do you think of Baudib's assertion that Jack has done nothing but troll?

Especially in light of this read.

In this hypothetical scenario, Baudib would be pocketed by Alison not really being scummy at all (similarly to me) and is tilted by Jack pushing Alison as w/w with TMI.

I don’t have any opinions on anyone’s reads lists.

That's concerning to the point of me doubting it's truth.

@Creature, we just going to ignore my reasons for my wr list that I posted earlier?

I think I don't know creatures wolf range well enough, I can postulate both "maybe I'm in argument with a town that communicates differently from my expectations" and "damn, creature is putting down some scummy posts."

The things you are choosing to focus on and talk about and place importance on just don't feel like relevant and town mindset things to me.

Ah, yes, let's just invalidate the data.

You're just posting weird. My focus areas and the things that I have found interesting in this game you have largely ignored in favour of things that I just don't care about. You are not alone so it's possibly a me thing.

Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.


@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.

Hmmm. Maybe I'm wrong about everything.

[MacDougall]

This may come across like a cop out but I don't really care who dies anymore today. I'm too turned around on my perspectives to really feel confident pushing anywhere without further information and feel like day 1 has been productive for retro already and the gamestate feels unproductive to really bother picking through in an active realtiming fashion without a flip to base myself off.

I don't really want to shield anyone either.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine this is the person I feel is most likely to flip mafia.

[robyn]

@Neon @MacDougall vote roxy thanks

[staypositivefriend]

oh i tr rondo too and forgot to include him ftr

still not here

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

[robyn]

[VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine this is the person I feel is most likely to flip mafia.

giant group of fuckers voting alison means if we go fingers i think alison would die, do you concur?

[RondoDimBuckle]

@DrWilgy I don't know how you go about social interactions, but i'm autistic so socializing is hard, i come into every social interaction with an agenda, usually for nothing if not for it to be normal

i am good at chess and come into an agenda before "rand"

i am strong at calculating and i've calculated out everything already, i am sorry if this is foreign play to you, but why the fuck are you doing what you're doing?

Aye, even so, if I see data pushing people certain directions, but I don't see what lead them along that path, then what am I to assume?

Like I get having a "game plan" but you've pushed for people to get off Alison and onto me for reasons I didn't see, (I asked you about these), you've jumped very quickly between multiple people and the dots do not connect to me. The only one that I have drawn a logical conclusion to you getting to is your read on Roxy, and I believe that comes from discourse in Mafia playstyle.

Spoiler replies to mass amounts of tags

Hello, good evening.

Just checking in as I haven't really read since I left earlier, just did some quick skimming.

@lucy, you advised people off Alison and onto me. Why me in particular? I don't think I saw the reason if it was given.

@MacDougall what's your read on Neon? How about Falcon? Why?

Why do you ask?

I don't think I need to provide a reason here. Why would I? Are we playing 5d chess?

Given I dislike the line of enquiry, unless you have a hypothesis you are going to share with me I'm not going to humour you with a response. Not that it's all that relevant anymore.

My tinfoil is that Jack and Alison are w/w.

What do you think of Baudib's assertion that Jack has done nothing but troll?

Especially in light of this read.

In this hypothetical scenario, Baudib would be pocketed by Alison not really being scummy at all (similarly to me) and is tilted by Jack pushing Alison as w/w with TMI.

I don’t have any opinions on anyone’s reads lists.

That's concerning to the point of me doubting it's truth.

@Creature, we just going to ignore my reasons for my wr list that I posted earlier?

I think I don't know creatures wolf range well enough, I can postulate both "maybe I'm in argument with a town that communicates differently from my expectations" and "damn, creature is putting down some scummy posts."

The things you are choosing to focus on and talk about and place importance on just don't feel like relevant and town mindset things to me.

Ah, yes, let's just invalidate the data.

You're just posting weird. My focus areas and the things that I have found interesting in this game you have largely ignored in favour of things that I just don't care about. You are not alone so it's possibly a me thing.

Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.


@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.

Hmmm. Maybe I'm wrong about everything.

What the fuck did I just read? Mac flip flopping on wilgy?

This may come across like a cop out but I don't really care who dies anymore today. I'm too turned around on my perspectives to really feel confident pushing anywhere without further information and feel like day 1 has been productive for retro already and the gamestate feels unproductive to really bother picking through in an active realtiming fashion without a flip to base myself off.

I don't really want to shield anyone either.

ok

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine
+not responding to my direct question but a bunch of wilgy's

[robyn]

[VOTE: Finger] aubergine

test ig

[robyn]

This game has all the traits of tvt violence and in a way that would be quite difficult for the mafia to justify getting involved in. Players like Wilgy, Roxy and Falcon are coming across like they have an obscene amount of town self entitlement even if I disagree with them (and was scumreading them), and on the flipside so does Baudib, Lucy etc.

What is the major hypotheses being debated?

Alison is mafia
Lucy should be trusted/listened to
A giant group of players who are opposite aligned to Alison are all scummy/bad/wrong/annoying

What is not being discussed?

Fingersplints is scummy as hell
Kate didn't get any townier at all
SPF's casing of Creature is being largely ignored and if he was town, I'd expect the mafia to be shining a lot on it
Tutuu/Neon capping early
Rondo's weird as hell holding of the Oracle claim

I am very tempted to townread and largely ignore everyone who is giving heaps of fucks about the former set of theorum and want to cast my glare at the people who are more passive at the moment, particularly those whose names are in the above.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

This is a bit reactionary, but I don’t like Lucy’s insistence here it’s game over or “throwing” if Alison is voted. No one person is game ending.

fingersplints didnt you just tell me like 24 hours ago that you thought alison and baub were town vs town.....? so do u believe this and ur voting alison for the sake of proving a point to lucy? or do u actually sr alison now?

I did not plan on voting her at the time. I said I thought it was a playstyle clash. But I also think now one of those need to resolved or else it will plague us the entire game. And I like the posts of the other players with votes more than her.
And also yes, I disagree with Lucy’s posts

How can anyone read this justification and think that is legit?

[Bereft]

Can't be on much for EoD. At some point, I cant look at tgis thread.

To reply to Falcon, naked voting on my home community is anyvote without justification, as we cannot vote silently.

[Seanzie]

*looks at Fingersplints wagon*

[MacDougall]

The thing giving me pause about my gamestate, and humouring flipping my evaluation upside down, is Alison and Baudib shielding Creature in case that wasn't obvious.

Firstly, I still think SPF's case on Creature has been the most thorough and well reasoned argument anyone has made the entire phase. On top of that SPF has been possibly the towniest person in the game. In spite of that, she's been largely ignored in favour of this repetitive argument that's like the universe vs. Alison. I also just don't think Creature has been towny.

Is there a world in which Alison, Baudib, SPF and Creature are all town.

SPF and Mac would need to be wrong about Creature. Corrected by two players who are largely suspected by a huge swathe of players. I guess it's plausible in that way.

The question one moustache is ... is Creature really towny enough for Alison and Baudib to be this defensive of him? Or is their defense shielding a partner? Or is it TMI?

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy @falcon45ca What do you three think of Creature?

[MacDougall]

*looks at Fingersplints wagon*

It was rapid but like... both Oracle claims and probably my two safest townreads are voting with me here which offset my concerns about it's rapidness to some degree.

What are you thinking?

[MacDougall]

@RondoDimBuckle I am ignoring you because your questions, and choices confuse me. I don't trust you atm.

[sig]

I’m not a fan of this last minute CFD, imo they so rarely catch mafia and I don’t trust most of the people on the splints wagon.

[sig]

@RondoDimBuckle I am ignoring you because your questions, and choices confuse me. I don't trust you atm.

You’re on the same wagon as him though?

I do agree with this the level of hypothetical they want makes no sense

[robyn]

sig, why do you suspect Alison?

[MacDougall]

It's just really really strange. I don't know how to unpack that in a game where Lucy is being treated as an inno child, and SPF and I are pretty well in our town meta, we're mostly being ignored while the syndicate meme gang all try to kill two players all three of us have been townreading strongly.

I'm just trying to think of a way that the continued existence of the Alison and Baudib wagons exists given the aforementioned and I think the correct answer is that it's either a mix of wrong town with opportunistic scum voting with the,. If Alison and Baudib are really mafia, there is enough town defense of them occurring and town trying to chop elsewhere for the mafia to have easily killed those wagons by now imo.

[MacDougall]

@RondoDimBuckle I am ignoring you because your questions, and choices confuse me. I don't trust you atm.

You’re on the same wagon as him though?

I do agree with this the level of hypothetical they want makes no sense

I voted Fingersplints first, a whole bunch of people joined me including Rondo who shouted out a vote on me in the thread before silent voting Fingersplints with me.

This is a really bad point.

[MacDougall]

I’m not a fan of this last minute CFD, imo they so rarely catch mafia and I don’t trust most of the people on the splints wagon.

Unpack this lack of trust you have towards each voter please. I wish to see the degree to which this is true.

[sig]

sig, why do you suspect Alison?

I’ve laid it out before but the highlights are

1. Exchange with Roxy didn’t feel genuine

2. She seems to be focusing more on just setting up votes vs finding mafia (this plays into all my points)

3. I agree with Jack on her meta

4. I don’t like that she’s so adamant that we follow your lead here. It seems like a really easy way for mafia to avoid blame for a misvote and if you weren’t/aren’t suspecting any mafia members it makes it extra helpful

5. I hate the idea of voting Roxy since she didn’t come back.

End of the day im a big believer in that the hardest phases for mafia are the first 1-2 everything is chaotic but they don’t have as much to go off of and many mafia players either slank to hard OR go out of their way to set up votes and try to lead the wagons I think Allison attempted this multiple times

[Bereft]

Jack and Creature are 2 slots that occupy sorta the same niche player archetype wise and threadwise.

With limited experience with either I'd vote Jack over Creature always. In particular I think SPF's meta concerns are too "narrow".

Aight my time is up.

[Seanzie]

*looks at Fingersplints wagon*

It was rapid but like... both Oracle claims and probably my two safest townreads are voting with me here which offset my concerns about it's rapidness to some degree.

What are you thinking?

I think Rondo should stop claiming Oracle, and I don't really feel great about them but not gonna push it and this bereft character has completely slipped UTR.

You're mid meh for me, and Lucy is Oracle so that part of the wagon looks fine. I don't have any feelings about Fingers (I should probably ISO them, but... we'll see), and honestly kind of felt similar to a sentiment you expressed where since Baudet isn't getting the heat I'd prefer, I'm kinda feeling detached from the whole thing (hence the shrug... weird wagon formation, but meh... I'm not going to DO anything about it)

[Baudib1]

The thing giving me pause about my gamestate, and humouring flipping my evaluation upside down, is Alison and Baudib shielding Creature in case that wasn't obvious.

Firstly, I still think SPF's case on Creature has been the most thorough and well reasoned argument anyone has made the entire phase. On top of that SPF has been possibly the towniest person in the game. In spite of that, she's been largely ignored in favour of this repetitive argument that's like the universe vs. Alison. I also just don't think Creature has been towny.

Is there a world in which Alison, Baudib, SPF and Creature are all town.

SPF and Mac would need to be wrong about Creature. Corrected by two players who are largely suspected by a huge swathe of players. I guess it's plausible in that way.

The question one moustache is ... is Creature really towny enough for Alison and Baudib to be this defensive of him? Or is their defense shielding a partner? Or is it TMI?

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy @falcon45ca What do you three think of Creature?

I’ll burn my last post on this because it’s worth it and I know you will consider it instead of just nodding and continue on just saying things…

I made this case before but I don’t doubt that Creature has W equity and you/SPF’s meta-driven reasons for sussing him are ~ fine. I’ll still argue that in this player list, Creature is super likely to be more valuable as town and is not a particularly dangerous late wolf IME (some notable exceptions to the contrary).

Still I would argue, as I would argue in the case of Alison, he has been fairly townsided and not trying to actively muck up the game state by saying nonsensical things the way ~ 5-8 other people are. Like you yourself literally had to make a post explaining why listening to the town IC on D1 is a reasonable idea; you cannot argue that Creature at a bare minimum operates at a level of competency far above this line.
***********
To all the people giving Lucy grief: It’s D1 in a fairly large game, trust me your reads probably aren’t great and there’s a high likelihood that you’ve agreed with and internalized Wolf-spread agenda. You should at least consider what she is saying since you know her motives are pure.

Let’s try to play better, this D1 was a dumpster fire.

I’ll be voting with the Lucy/SPF group.

[Creature]

baudib1 wagon is utter crap

[VOTE: Dennis] aubergine

[Creature]

Shit I might not have time for this EOD

[Seanzie]

*looks at Fingersplints wagon*

It was rapid but like... both Oracle claims and probably my two safest townreads are voting with me here which offset my concerns about it's rapidness to some degree.

What are you thinking?

I think Rondo should stop claiming Oracle, and I don't really feel great about them but not gonna push it and this bereft character has completely slipped UTR.

You're mid meh for me, and Lucy is Oracle so that part of the wagon looks fine. I don't have any feelings about Fingers (I should probably ISO them, but... we'll see), and honestly kind of felt similar to a sentiment you expressed where since Baudet isn't getting the heat I'd prefer, I'm kinda feeling detached from the whole thing (hence the shrug... weird wagon formation, but meh... I'm not going to DO anything about it)

Oh, I forgot to mention SPF. I am wary of them since I saw them wolf. Their creature case which you lauded about reminded me of wolf!SPF, but I wasn't super confident about it, and when SPF asked me about it and a few other reads, I thought they were going to be critical of me, and weren't. I'd relook at them if you're alive tomorrow since that interaction made me feel like they were more concerned with preparing for my push on them rather than sorting me by understanding my thoughts on them. I'm not going to say I have any confidence in my ability to read SPF though.

[sig]

I’m not a fan of this last minute CFD, imo they so rarely catch mafia and I don’t trust most of the people on the splints wagon.

Unpack this lack of trust you have towards each voter please. I wish to see the degree to which this is true.

Voters:
Lucy: she’s a cleared civ, but I haven’t agreed on a lot of reads + I hate the idea of following them for being cleared.


RondoDimBuckle: The vibes are off. I also don’t like the lebel of hypothetical they’re playing at. I recognize this could be a play style clash but it seems like they’re trying to people up.

For example. He asked me which out of 5 are the most bad then wanted me to build a case. Well out of five I gave an answer, but that doesn’t mean I think any are bad per say.

Stay positive: they’ve been super present but I have zero memory of any posts. That isn’t someone I’d want to CFD with


MacDougall: imma not trust you until phase 2-3

Bereft: same as Stay positive but I can’t even recall seeing to them post and I’ve been fairly active.


Now I’m not saying they’re all or even that any are mafia. I just don’t support the wagon enough to change my vote

[robyn]

Shit I might not have time for this EOD

vote splints please

[Creature]

Shit I might not have time for this EOD

vote splints please

Ok

[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

[robyn]

It's just really really strange. I don't know how to unpack that in a game where Lucy is being treated as an inno child, and SPF and I are pretty well in our town meta, we're mostly being ignored while the syndicate meme gang all try to kill two players all three of us have been townreading strongly.

I'm just trying to think of a way that the continued existence of the Alison and Baudib wagons exists given the aforementioned and I think the correct answer is that it's either a mix of wrong town with opportunistic scum voting with the,. If Alison and Baudib are really mafia, there is enough town defense of them occurring and town trying to chop elsewhere for the mafia to have easily killed those wagons by now imo.

signal boosting because these thoughts are ones i'm extremely frustrated with

[sig]

I wanna be part of the town meme gang

[Creature]

It's just really really strange. I don't know how to unpack that in a game where Lucy is being treated as an inno child, and SPF and I are pretty well in our town meta, we're mostly being ignored while the syndicate meme gang all try to kill two players all three of us have been townreading strongly.

I'm just trying to think of a way that the continued existence of the Alison and Baudib wagons exists given the aforementioned and I think the correct answer is that it's either a mix of wrong town with opportunistic scum voting with the,. If Alison and Baudib are really mafia, there is enough town defense of them occurring and town trying to chop elsewhere for the mafia to have easily killed those wagons by now imo.

signal boosting because these thoughts are ones i'm extremely frustrated with

Their wagons have been stagnant af and full of sketchy voters rn

[MacDougall]

Legacy

Upper POE -

Rondo/Lucy (I really don't get how the non Oracle between them makes sense as town)
Jack/Baudib1 (different)

Lower POE -

Sig
Creature
Fingersplints

If Alison survives today and a town elimination occurs add Alison to my upper POE.

[RondoDimBuckle]

NGL I am enjoying the level of flip flopping Mac has on me this game. It feeds me. ATM I feel like it comes from town Mac not wanting to be caught again

[robyn]

sig, why do you suspect Alison?

I’ve laid it out before but the highlights are

1. Exchange with Roxy didn’t feel genuine

2. She seems to be focusing more on just setting up votes vs finding mafia (this plays into all my points)

3. I agree with Jack on her meta

4. I don’t like that she’s so adamant that we follow your lead here. It seems like a really easy way for mafia to avoid blame for a misvote and if you weren’t/aren’t suspecting any mafia members it makes it extra helpful

5. I hate the idea of voting Roxy since she didn’t come back.

End of the day im a big believer in that the hardest phases for mafia are the first 1-2 everything is chaotic but they don’t have as much to go off of and many mafia players either slank to hard OR go out of their way to set up votes and try to lead the wagons I think Allison attempted this multiple times

2) elaborate
4) why? and i'm curious, do you believe wolves would be super interested in voting out town alison here?
5) why? frozen wolf scenario them not being online is usually a wolf tell, do you disagree?
Alison leading wagons is typical alison play lmao, and why do you think she's setting up votes instead of solving?

[sig]

Also on a totally different note before the Day ends. We should treat the town majority as being one shorter with “The World” card being present essentially can turn a player into a survivor style role

[Creature]

Also on a totally different note before the Day ends. We should treat the town majority as being one shorter with “The World” card being present essentially can turn a player into a survivor style role

Shh

[falcon45ca]

The thing giving me pause about my gamestate, and humouring flipping my evaluation upside down, is Alison and Baudib shielding Creature in case that wasn't obvious.

Firstly, I still think SPF's case on Creature has been the most thorough and well reasoned argument anyone has made the entire phase. On top of that SPF has been possibly the towniest person in the game. In spite of that, she's been largely ignored in favour of this repetitive argument that's like the universe vs. Alison. I also just don't think Creature has been towny.

Is there a world in which Alison, Baudib, SPF and Creature are all town.

SPF and Mac would need to be wrong about Creature. Corrected by two players who are largely suspected by a huge swathe of players. I guess it's plausible in that way.

The question one moustache is ... is Creature really towny enough for Alison and Baudib to be this defensive of him? Or is their defense shielding a partner? Or is it TMI?

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy @falcon45ca What do you three think of Creature?

I feel Creature has been here and done...things? I can't say I feel he's been solving, more like stirring.

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: baudi] aubergine

[sig]

Also on a totally different note before the Day ends. We should treat the town majority as being one shorter with “The World” card being present essentially can turn a player into a survivor style role

Shh

If I don’t say this before we draw cards people will assume I drew it