The Syndicate

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:05 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:14 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:12 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:05 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:51 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:47 pm Forgot vote count isn’t necessarily in order. I don’t even see where Porscha voted in her iso.
Based on this, I’m rejecting Camilla’s assertion that Pyxxy is never the wolf PR. Which is kinda funny because Camilla also insists that if Pyxxy flips vanilla wolf, I must be the wolf PR wowee.
dont think this is partnered with camilla

the people that randomly created sus on her when she was viewed as locktown (scotty/roxy) are probs not partnered either

think a camilla/pyxxy team would hard bury scotty over anyone else

ergo camilla can only be with wilgy if scum...

@Camilla vote wilgy to confirm yourself town. i know you dont have the balls to do it if you are his partner
I used to try this but it never works. Wolves feel comfortable calling this bluff and also just saying no. Townies will just vote for who they want under the idea that they’re town and they’ll be “confirmed” by voting who they were gonna vote anyhow or they won’t feel the need to not vote their scumread just for some dubious proof of townieness.
Seeing whether camilla stays or switches off the wilgy vote is informative imo.

if camilla switches then as you said could be town. but if she sticks and wilgy flips red shes 100% inno town.

Giving her the opportunity to do that is valuable in my eyes. If she switches to vote eg. you at eod then well... she was gonna do that anyway if i didnt ask her to vote wilgy, so its not like we lost anything
Hmm

Camilla did stay but Wilgy was dead after a certain point so not much point to switching if shes mafia

Need to recheck if she was given an opportunity to swerve off Wilgy and drum up an exe on someone else at any point

I don't think there were any.

I didn't feel the reason to do so as I felt that from much of my PoE just converging onto Pyxxy that he was just town and that the team would be something in Jack/Scotty/Wilgy.

If Wilgy was somehow town then my team would be Scotty/Pyxxy as there would be no way that W!Jack spends all that entire energy preflipping me with a doomed villager.

With Wilgy W and Scotty V then I'm pretty sure that it's just Jack.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:09 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:58 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:49 pm “Wilgy is right outside your towncore” is a pretty dishonest way to evaluate what was always a pretty weak townread based on unstated differences between Wilgy’s play here and our play together when we were teamed….in a game where we won after I bussed him and Nutella that I don’t remember the name of. Like I was kinda kicking myself for bussing Wilgy in that game cause it felt like he took the bus in a way that felt obviously partnered with me at the time (guess I was wrong) but he didn’t have that awkwardness here. That was the entirety of my Wilgy townlean reasoning and that’s why he was still in the poe after Falcon flipped town. Like…I hope this isn’t town Camilla actually thinking I was all but Towncoring Wilgy based off this unspecified meta reason. Obviously I don’t think that’s the case but gah what a look.
I mean, your case on me basically goes on "you thought that Tutuu was the cop with a n1 on Wilgy so you're Mafia with them" which should be more clearing than the opposite.

Also the hell is with that read?

He was pretty much not playing at all so it's not like he'd display any awkwardness in posting.
Like…you’re aware I was almost certain the team was Wilgy/Camilla BEFORE you claimed to think Tutuu had softed a green on Wilgy, right? How can you think that’s the full reason I think you’re a wolf if it didn’t happen until after I strongly thought you were a wolf?

You see how I’m like Fry meme “not sure if Camilla didn’t read at all or is just lying”?

So why couldn't the team be Me/Pyxxy?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:29 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:45 pm If pyxxy is partners with Wilgy, I scratch my head at how Wilgy firmly was in the camp of falcon good, pyxxy bad. I mean, it could just be that falcon was going over regardless so it was just firm-sounding words.

But then he comes into today basically with ‘we need to resolve pyxxy/Scotty, and I think Scotty is good’

Like, what kind of strategy is that from your partner? It’s a bit less believable to me

Yeah, yikes, I think I’m coming around on an angle where I can easily see Wilgy having an agenda, and I’m not as sure with his partner being pyxxy.

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine
Mmm. Yeah okay.

Then the question fmpov is if Camilla works better with Wilgy or Pyxxy. It would be convenient if the answer is “Wilgy” cause that’s just easier but that’s probably a tomorrow question.

Around here is basically when you started turning on Wilgy.

Thing is Wilgy was pushing Pyxxy while I was pushing Wilgy so I still don't get why you were so confident on Wilgy/Me as Me/Pyxxy would work better interaction-wise.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:57 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:51 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:49 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:49 pm It's kinda interesting that I was the one to call Wilgy out and strongarm Camilla and Jack into voting him but by EOD they were both so confident on Wilgy scum that they were preflipping him red and associating him with the other.
Well I have an actual progression you can look at so
Quote the posts.

Show me the receipts.
It’s not my fault you didn’t read yesterday jc.

Quote them. You immediately went from having Wilgy as your strongest non-core townread to tying me with him. I saw basically no progression on it.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:56 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:42 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:38 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:34 pm Why was Scotty killed?
You'd always be protected tonight.

Roxy is tunneling on me.

Me/Pyxxy are basically Jack's path to victory.

So I'm not surprised that he got killed overnight.
@Jackofhearts2005 If Camilla is mafia, why not kill Roxy? More trusted than Scotty (at least FMPOV) and tunnelled on Camilla.
I mean Camilla is right on this front.

That kill was based on thinking Scotty was the doc or that you’d be doctored or it comes from you. Or I guess the wolf kill got randomized cause they forgot to submit.

I can understand shooting Scotty over Roxy if you’re Camilla. Maybe Roxy is more pro Jack and Scotty is more pro Camilla (idk) but Scotty was generally more active. I don’t understand Camilla (or w!Jack for that matter or w!Pyxxy or any other tinfoil wolf) shooting Scotty over Alison in a vanilla version of this game. Ergo, that’s not what happened.

I mean, there's basically no worlds where I don't not shoot Roxy here if I'm the last wolf.

Roxy's a consensus TR and she's been tunneling on me so of course I'd just shoot her as there'd be no way of W!me of getting rid of her.

W!Me could reason with Scotty, so I would never kill him over Roxy.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:49 pm “Wilgy is right outside your towncore” is a pretty dishonest way to evaluate what was always a pretty weak townread based on unstated differences between Wilgy’s play here and our play together when we were teamed….in a game where we won after I bussed him and Nutella that I don’t remember the name of. Like I was kinda kicking myself for bussing Wilgy in that game cause it felt like he took the bus in a way that felt obviously partnered with me at the time (guess I was wrong) but he didn’t have that awkwardness here. That was the entirety of my Wilgy townlean reasoning and that’s why he was still in the poe after Falcon flipped town. Like…I hope this isn’t town Camilla actually thinking I was all but Towncoring Wilgy based off this unspecified meta reason. Obviously I don’t think that’s the case but gah what a look.

I mean, your case on me basically goes on "you thought that Tutuu was the cop with a n1 on Wilgy so you're Mafia with them" which should be more clearing than the opposite.

Also the hell is with that read?

He was pretty much not playing at all so it's not like he'd display any awkwardness in posting.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:49 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:49 pm It's kinda interesting that I was the one to call Wilgy out and strongarm Camilla and Jack into voting him but by EOD they were both so confident on Wilgy scum that they were preflipping him red and associating him with the other.
Well I have an actual progression you can look at so

Quote the posts.

Show me the receipts.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:49 pm It's kinda interesting that I was the one to call Wilgy out and strongarm Camilla and Jack into voting him but by EOD they were both so confident on Wilgy scum that they were preflipping him red and associating him with the other.

I only got confident on this because Jack got confident on it to the point that he was obviously TMI'ing Wilgy.

He was pre-flipping Wilgy so hard to the point that it was extremely blatant that he had TMI on him.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:43 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:53 pm scotty's dead lol gg wp no rez

you have 48 hours to decide the elimination, until Monday, June 5 at 2:00 PM PST / 5:00 PM EST / 11:00 PM CET

btw there's no sleep

Spoiler: show

@Jackofhearts2005
@Alison
@Camilla
@pyxxy
@Roxy
@Scotty

I kinda just assumed Alison was dead. Actually surprised it’s Scotty. I think Camilla is the wolf for a lot of reasons but I’ll iso Alison off due diligence. Cause my reason for reaffirmingy townread on Alison was like “wolf Alison doesn’t bury wolf Wilgy because that would draw attention to her not dying.”

And hey, that’s probably still correct and this was probably just doc dodging but might as well do my due dilligence. It’s a long phase.

It's an obvious doc dodge.

If Alison's a wolf then she just takes advantage of the me/you/Pyxxy T/T/T noodle fight and uses it to chain mislynches as there was no need to put Wilgy in contention.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:44 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:42 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:39 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:22 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:44 pm Prince Jack (the real rock n rolla....jk that song actually blows chunks and I like the Prince's WWE theme more)
Tutuu
Alison
Camilla
(line)
Wilgy
Scotty
(line)
Roxy
(line)
Pyxxy
Falcon

Ugh still feels too easy but I don't see a way out of it. I've isoed half the game this phase. Idk what more I'm supposed to do and fuck, maybe it really is the right answer and game is just ez.
Like, Jack's progression of Wilgy basically goes from Wilgy being very towny but not exactly towncore and suddenly after Alison and I start pushing him he's basically just casing a me with my interactions with Wilgy.

It's pretty much obvious TMI in this case as he knew that Wilgy would have flipped wolf and a villager in his position would just say that the team's Pyxxy/Me trying to mislynch Wilgy while instead he's laying the groundwork to push me the next day because he knew that Wilgy was wolfing.
TMI?

I didn’t spontaneously decide you and Wilgy were teamed. I went through the entirety of Roxy’s, Wilgy’s, Porscha’s and your isos. You can see me pulling these isos as the day goes on and you can see me pull bits of Scotty and Tutuu that are close to the posts from the isos I’m actually doing.

It’s not tmi to correctly evaluate a player while showing your work. That’s just good town play.

You’re calling it “tmi” because you’re a wolf.
You basically had no progression on Wilgy and suddenly went from Wilgy being right outside your towncore to being extremely confident that Wilgy is a wolf to the point that you started pushing me on interactions with him despite that he didn't flip yet.

If you were a villager and saw Wilgy pushing Pyxxy and me easily pushing Wilgy you wouldn't had had such an unnatural turn and instead would've claimed that I was trying to mislynch Wilgy and push pyxxy instead.
Idk if you just like skipped an entire day phase of me mostly talking to myself or if you’re just lying. Weird for you to even make this accusation.

I re-ISO'd you overnight. Point to where your suspicion irt Wilgy started turning, then?

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:40 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:35 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:38 am
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 12:05 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 4:52 pm @pyxxy can you place a vote asap. i want to see what you do

@Jackofhearts2005 you too. there's no hammer
.......sorry..............had..............to sleep.......

.......I think.......I'm stuck..............re-reading..............is..............scotty/falcon..............a.......difference check?.......wdyt?.......
You/Scotty is a difference check.

It’s not hard to read this as tmi Falcon is town to be used to yeet town Scotty later.
Re-reading Jack it's actually funny how obviously he's TMI'ing hard the pushes here lmao.

Tutuu
Alison
Camilla
(line)
Wilgy
Scotty
(line)
Roxy
(line)
Pyxxy
Falcon

This was his readlist and despite Falcon being in the bottom he interpreted Pyxxy's comments as him wanting to mislynch scotty rather than clearing Scotty and falcon was town.

And in the top but not in the towncore, which would be the ideal place to put a lazy wolfbud as Wilgy had nothing to go to towncore him, when Wilgy was pushed he immediately started analyzing people's interactions with Wilgy despite having him as top town.

Like I'm always voting Jack here as there's no way in hell that these are a villager's thought processes.
I actually had Wilgy as a townread around this time because I thought his Porscha push was townie. And then obviously he dropped.

Yes, but you weren't so confident that you were worldbuilding around his flip and you actually had a smooth progression on Wilgy such as noticing his lack of paranoia on you while Jack basically went from immediately having Wilgy as just outside his towncore to casing me on interactions with Wilgy.

By the time you and I were pushing him and his death was sealed he pretty much started worldbuilding around a redflip with zero doubt irt Wilgy's alignment.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:39 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:22 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:44 pm Prince Jack (the real rock n rolla....jk that song actually blows chunks and I like the Prince's WWE theme more)
Tutuu
Alison
Camilla
(line)
Wilgy
Scotty
(line)
Roxy
(line)
Pyxxy
Falcon

Ugh still feels too easy but I don't see a way out of it. I've isoed half the game this phase. Idk what more I'm supposed to do and fuck, maybe it really is the right answer and game is just ez.
Like, Jack's progression of Wilgy basically goes from Wilgy being very towny but not exactly towncore and suddenly after Alison and I start pushing him he's basically just casing a me with my interactions with Wilgy.

It's pretty much obvious TMI in this case as he knew that Wilgy would have flipped wolf and a villager in his position would just say that the team's Pyxxy/Me trying to mislynch Wilgy while instead he's laying the groundwork to push me the next day because he knew that Wilgy was wolfing.
TMI?

I didn’t spontaneously decide you and Wilgy were teamed. I went through the entirety of Roxy’s, Wilgy’s, Porscha’s and your isos. You can see me pulling these isos as the day goes on and you can see me pull bits of Scotty and Tutuu that are close to the posts from the isos I’m actually doing.

It’s not tmi to correctly evaluate a player while showing your work. That’s just good town play.

You’re calling it “tmi” because you’re a wolf.

You basically had no progression on Wilgy and suddenly went from Wilgy being right outside your towncore to being extremely confident that Wilgy is a wolf to the point that you started pushing me on interactions with him despite that he didn't flip yet.

If you were a villager and saw Wilgy pushing Pyxxy and me easily pushing Wilgy you wouldn't had had such an unnatural turn and instead would've claimed that I was trying to mislynch Wilgy and push pyxxy instead.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:34 pm Why was Scotty killed?

You'd always be protected tonight.

Roxy is tunneling on me.

Me/Pyxxy are basically Jack's path to victory.

So I'm not surprised that he got killed overnight.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:38 am
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 12:05 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 4:52 pm @pyxxy can you place a vote asap. i want to see what you do

@Jackofhearts2005 you too. there's no hammer
.......sorry..............had..............to sleep.......

.......I think.......I'm stuck..............re-reading..............is..............scotty/falcon..............a.......difference check?.......wdyt?.......
You/Scotty is a difference check.

It’s not hard to read this as tmi Falcon is town to be used to yeet town Scotty later.

Re-reading Jack it's actually funny how obviously he's TMI'ing hard the pushes here lmao.

Tutuu
Alison
Camilla
(line)
Wilgy
Scotty
(line)
Roxy
(line)
Pyxxy
Falcon

This was his readlist and despite Falcon being in the bottom he interpreted Pyxxy's comments as him wanting to mislynch scotty rather than clearing Scotty and falcon was town.

And in the top but not in the towncore, which would be the ideal place to put a lazy wolfbud as Wilgy had nothing to go to towncore him, when Wilgy was pushed he immediately started analyzing people's interactions with Wilgy despite having him as top town.

Like I'm always voting Jack here as there's no way in hell that these are a villager's thought processes.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:44 pm Prince Jack (the real rock n rolla....jk that song actually blows chunks and I like the Prince's WWE theme more)
Tutuu
Alison
Camilla
(line)
Wilgy
Scotty
(line)
Roxy
(line)
Pyxxy
Falcon

Ugh still feels too easy but I don't see a way out of it. I've isoed half the game this phase. Idk what more I'm supposed to do and fuck, maybe it really is the right answer and game is just ez.

Like, Jack's progression of Wilgy basically goes from Wilgy being very towny but not exactly towncore and suddenly after Alison and I start pushing him he's basically just casing a me with my interactions with Wilgy.

It's pretty much obvious TMI in this case as he knew that Wilgy would have flipped wolf and a villager in his position would just say that the team's Pyxxy/Me trying to mislynch Wilgy while instead he's laying the groundwork to push me the next day because he knew that Wilgy was wolfing.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:15 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:14 pm It's about D2 but I'll talk more about it tomorrow.
.......poke poke.......

Theory like this was about Jack being the Doctor and if so then I'll basically have to readjust my worldview as he has some PR-or-wolf vibes.

Thing is I doubt this is ever the case as I re-read his progression on Wilgy and it basically reeks of TMI.

Treating Alison as an IC now as if the wolfteam's Wilgy/Porscha/Alison then she basically spent the entire game pointlessly bussing and she's not the kind of player that would gamethrow like this.

Pyxxy's very likely not it from how Wilgy was trying to push him non-stop throughout the game

Would always kill Jack over Roxy being that Jack's progression on Wilgy was atrocious.

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:44 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:41 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:35 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:13 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:11 pm (I still think it's Wilgy/Camilla)
I'm actually less certain on you now as I remembered something.
Could you talk about it now? Or at least who you have with Wilgy?

Cause I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone but you that can be wolves with Wilgy. But if you think Wilgy is a wolf and I might not be....who could he be wolves with?
It's a theory that I'd like to wait until tomorrow to talk about.

I feel like I've been reading much of the game all wrong.
Would this be influenced by Wilgy’s alignment?

Not really. It's about NKs.

I'm not going to talk more about it as it could mess up my theory.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:35 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:13 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:11 pm (I still think it's Wilgy/Camilla)
I'm actually less certain on you now as I remembered something.
Could you talk about it now? Or at least who you have with Wilgy?

Cause I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone but you that can be wolves with Wilgy. But if you think Wilgy is a wolf and I might not be....who could he be wolves with?

It's a theory that I'd like to wait until tomorrow to talk about.

I feel like I've been reading much of the game all wrong.

It's about D2 but I'll talk more about it tomorrow.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:11 pm (I still think it's Wilgy/Camilla)

I'm actually less certain on you now as I remembered something.

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:07 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:56 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible
If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.
also if Tutuu was the cop then why would she beg Pyx to out themselves if they were a town PR? Day 1?? Nah not buying this line of thinking.
Because we literally have two PRs who do not know the identity of each other.
that we want to be hidden -yes? Then why did Tutuu try and get pyx to out themselves during the D 1 elim?

Because it's better to have an outed PR than a mislynched PR.

Pyxxy/Porscha were at 4/4 so it was very likely the former would go over.

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:03 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:50 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:44 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:25 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:29 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:21 pm im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town
What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.
I thought that this was weird for her to do so since Wilgy was basically fairly nullish to me as his vote did have bussing vibes.
so Tutuu had you and Rondo as her top two mafia suspects...............
Okay, are you reading the thread?

Tutu had me as her top suspect at the SoD2 but then during D2 and D3 she began townreading me. I can literally bring up any of Tutu's posts to prove this shit.
sorry I didn't realize we had moved to a no joke zone......

I made this comment and another similar bc everyone is going on and on with this Tutuu green check bs. I was tying to have some fun as it was an early D 2 read.

No offense meant---- but did you have to jump and shout at me? <3

I mean, I already pointed out my interaction with Tutuu where I pretty clearly read them as a cop green checking Wilgy and my reaction to realizing I fucked up. Not sure what else I can do.

Sorry if I'm seeming toxic. Just a bit stressed rn.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:59 pm I wanna know who Camilla thinks is the doctor wowee

The doctor is

► Show Spoiler

.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:58 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:48 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:42 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible
If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.
Wait I’m confused- this sounds like you’re arguing that you determined she was not the cop

Am I missing the crux of this?
I think so.

Here's what's happened.

1) I determined that she was the cop for putting a slanker as her top town read overnight, which felt that she n1'd Wilgy and found him green.
2) I did not want others to know that I thought that she was the cop so I lied about my reads and added artificial uncertainty to them.

That's basically it. Want me to out my doctor read as well?
nah doc will out if they need to

Well, isn't it wolfy for me to withhold my doctor read and shouldn't I broadcast it to the entire world on who I think they are?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:57 pm Who's having fun? I'm having fun.

If Roxy's actually a villager then I'd rather deal with Frostburn Phoenix then her.

jfc.

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:56 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible
If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.
also if Tutuu was the cop then why would she beg Pyx to out themselves if they were a town PR? Day 1?? Nah not buying this line of thinking.
Because we literally have two PRs who do not know the identity of each other.

Like, what the actual fuck was that post?

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible
If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.
also if Tutuu was the cop then why would she beg Pyx to out themselves if they were a town PR? Day 1?? Nah not buying this line of thinking.

Because we literally have two PRs who do not know the identity of each other.

@Alison

Could you show up and bring logic and reason to this damned thread?

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:52 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible
Tutuu is a bit of a messy player (but I am messier) I do not think of this post at all like a wifom. If it is then we should be paying attention to who she thought was mafia. FYI it was Rondo/Camilla

This was literally during SoD2, and then Tutuu changed her mind on it and kept me in her towncore for the remainder of the game.

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 8:20 pm camilla, alison, zenon innocent children

@Roxy

FTR, a few posts later this is what Tutuu's thoughts about me were.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:49 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:45 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:40 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:33 pm

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."
If Wilgy is wolf, Alison is clear as far as I’m concerned
Oh yeah, she did push Wilgy pretty hard at start of day and do that silly "clear Camilla if she votes for Wilgy" thing.

If she's the wolf, it's expected that she is nked after we yeet wolf Wilgy and it will be problematic when that doesn't happen. Ergo she's always just town if Wilgy is a wolf.

Good good.
There's also very little reason for w!Alison to hellbus Wilgy. Like at 5 vs 2, to win, she needs 2 misyeets. Probably in Pyxxy, Camilla, Jack but at the time she started pushing Wilgy, Scotty and Roxy were also viable. All townies misyeetable. Why hellbus your partner and draw extra attention to yourself when any other yeet is preferable and if Wilgy is gonna go, it's better to NOT be hellbussing so that nobody questions why you aren't nked. There's just no way it's Wilgy/Alison.

If it's Wilgy/Alison then Alison just lets town self-destruct rather than bus.

I don't know why is this possibility even being raised.

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:44 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:25 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:29 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:21 pm im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town
What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.
I thought that this was weird for her to do so since Wilgy was basically fairly nullish to me as his vote did have bussing vibes.
so Tutuu had you and Rondo as her top two mafia suspects...............

Okay, are you reading the thread?

Tutu had me as her top suspect at the SoD2 but then during D2 and D3 she began townreading me. I can literally bring up any of Tutu's posts to prove this shit.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:42 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible
If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.
Wait I’m confused- this sounds like you’re arguing that you determined she was not the cop

Am I missing the crux of this?

I think so.

Here's what's happened.

1) I determined that she was the cop for putting a slanker as her top town read overnight, which felt that she n1'd Wilgy and found him green.
2) I did not want others to know that I thought that she was the cop so I lied about my reads and added artificial uncertainty to them.

That's basically it. Want me to out my doctor read as well?

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:39 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:28 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:25 pm hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr
Again, if I suddenly put Wilgy at the top after that exchange with Tutuu it would basically out to the wolves that I read Tutuu Cop with a green check on Wilgy.

The entire reasoning I put Wilgy in the null zone was so I'd disguise this read and not talk more about it.
Come on though- you were a town voice. Why put Wilgy in nulls at all? You had 3 other town reads- you can easily put him in bottom of the town. Hell, you even had him below me, of all people

Again, I panicked when I realized that I was "outing" Tutuu and had no idea what to do with it. I just didn't want to talk about it anymore to prevent spewing.

If Tutu flipped cop then I'd just put Wilgy as V and then actually out it. Yes, it's an awkward way of handling a wolf slot but as you can see in my SoD it was pretty much done as a result of me misreading Tutu as cop.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:35 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:33 pm

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."
This is mostly based off the idea that the Camilla "I thought Wilgy was a green peek from Tutuu" is actually somewhat believable and it would be kinda weird for w!Camilla to commit to this theatre if she knows Wilgy is also a wolf. I mean....I'd do it. I've done it in the past. But I don't really think most players do this. Idk. Thoughts?

Wasn't it painfully obvious that this was what happened D2?

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible

If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:29 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:19 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 4:45 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 4:42 pm How we feeling with Rondo/falcon wagons? I feel pretty good that at least one of these is wolf
Maybe?

I'm still fairly certain on Alison/Zenon, a bit less on you/Tutu. Roxy is probably just a villa.

Atp Wilgy/J feel like reading tea leaves and are also in my PoE as Pyxxy so I'm not 100% certain that these wagons have at least 1 wolf in them.
Wilgy is so null, trying to find his alignment is like "reading tea leaves."

Again, this is a player Camilla claims to think is green peeked.
I also don’t get that quote. If she feels she’s identified the cop on D2, why would she even mention that she’s a bit less certain on tutuu?

Again, I did not want to telegraph the wolves who I thought the cop was.

After I realized how badly I fucked up at the SoD2 I kept my read on Tutu/Wilgy but faked my reads so it'd look like I didn't read them as cop/n1 green check.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:25 pm hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr

Again, if I suddenly put Wilgy at the top after that exchange with Tutuu it would basically out to the wolves that I read Tutuu Cop with a green check on Wilgy.

The entire reasoning I put Wilgy in the null zone was so I'd disguise this read and not talk more about it.

Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:35 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:33 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:29 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:21 pm im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town
What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.
i had a villager read on him from his opening post of him being exhausted with his quirk

so basically he says that every game

one time he didn't - he was actual doctor. the next time he was doctor he said it, but im making the argument that wilgy attaches some ... lets say stress/anxiety/effort to his one-liner copy paste gimmick.

him expressing that he got tired of it this game, just like stopping it midway and being like "nvm" basically just reprents to me that he's a vanilla town. so in a way he "let jesus take the wheel"

i might be clearing him too easily, you are making me feel paranoid, but ...

he did sheep. which. hm.

if i try to justify my townread on wilgy im falling flat.

so lets say ... im just going with gut here. i cant provide solid logical argumetns for why wilgy is mega town

also to clarify im NOT softing a green on him
Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.

Here is where I admit that I blatantly outed my copread on Tutuu.

Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:29 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:21 pm im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town
What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.

I thought that this was weird for her to do so since Wilgy was basically fairly nullish to me as his vote did have bussing vibes.

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:27 pm drwilgy
prince j
zenon
scotty

alison
falcon

pyxxy
roxy

camilla
rondo

drwilgy is unironically my top townread, he has 3 posts, isn't that glorious?

i moved alison down a category, thinking about it, just because "she is alison". i think shes mega towny in terms of posting, as i townread her early on, her voting mafia is great, but again, "its alison". befitting to be the same category as falcon. falcon i thought was towny from the little he posted, but "he's falcon", he won't post a lot, he can easily be mafia

Here's basically where I thought that Wilgy was copped since Tutuu put him at the top of her reads despite Wilgy doing nothing.

Wait, I have proof of this actually.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I mean, see how I was acting around Tutuu by immediately believing her strong TR then how I was trying to be hush-hush about it.

Of course

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:15 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:12 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:09 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:07 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:05 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:00 pm Who 3rd?
Haven’t done my DD but I’m thinking within
Prince/Alison/falcon
I think J has a chance of being a wolf going UTR as I don't think Porscha's ping to him is that significant.

He kind of just dipped the moment we brought up Porscha's ping and that's kind of unlike him as he's more enthusiastic than this.

He tends to have a hectic schedule so he usually just posts in bursts rather than threadcamp but it was kind of odd for his energy to suddenly dissipate that quickly.
Yeah Porscha’s ping is the only mention of him, and as I said in the Porscha iso, she listed 3 low posters, but didn’t mention prince. Why?
I think we're reading too hard into Porscha complaining about lowposters.

I'd say it's Rule of Three but Rule of Three has become such a popular tell that a lot of wolves don't do it anymore.
I disagree.

Over half the playerlist was lowposting and I was TR’ing basically all the highposters then. It’s pretty much a nonissue and the fact that you’re taking a lot of my posts out of context so hard should be outing for any villages with an iota of critical thinking, tbh.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:08 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 10:57 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 10:49 pm Pyxxy + wilgy is a possible team too (wilgy sheeping on a wolf flip) in w/w wagons

I dont think wilgy is mafia without pyxxy, just shrug sheeping on a wolf wagon and 3 posting is not a scum activity. He put porscha at 3 votes. He knows 4 votes are enough to chop someone on the syndicate. My game was a 15er and the d1 wagon had 4 votes to chop it, a lot of players here played it
Didn't Wilgy put Porscha at 4 votes since you were on her when he voted or am I misremembering?

Either way I'm kind of reluctant on Pyxxy as the way Porscha treated him didn't really feel like she was doing it in a W/W way.
Defending Wilgy who is again, a null or the very bottom of her townleans (or is a green check

I’m not defending Wilgy.

I was doing VCA and it may surprise you that you can’t do VCA without mentioning facts that actually happened in the thread even if it makes wolves look good.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:07 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:02 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:58 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:56 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:48 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:35 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:33 pm

i had a villager read on him from his opening post of him being exhausted with his quirk

so basically he says that every game

one time he didn't - he was actual doctor. the next time he was doctor he said it, but im making the argument that wilgy attaches some ... lets say stress/anxiety/effort to his one-liner copy paste gimmick.

him expressing that he got tired of it this game, just like stopping it midway and being like "nvm" basically just reprents to me that he's a vanilla town. so in a way he "let jesus take the wheel"

i might be clearing him too easily, you are making me feel paranoid, but ...

he did sheep. which. hm.

if i try to justify my townread on wilgy im falling flat.

so lets say ... im just going with gut here. i cant provide solid logical argumetns for why wilgy is mega town

also to clarify im NOT softing a green on him
Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.
Just pulling some Camilla/Wilgy interactives.
I interpreted this as Tutuu having a green check on Wilgy. Which shows a lack of TMI rather than agenda.
Then how come you have Wilgy in your nulls (or if there are supposed to be 3 green categories, at the bottom of your townleans) in your next readlist?

Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:42 pm Camilla
Zenon
Alison
tutu

Scotty

J
Wilgy

falcon
pyxxy

Roxy
Rondo

Currently where I'm at, tbh.

Because I didn’t want to signal to the wolfteam that “HEY GUYS THIS IS THE COP AND SHE HAS A GREEN CHECK ON WILGY.
You can list someone as a townread and not out the cop

You just didn’t even list him as town, which jack is right. It’s weird and not concurrent with your previous thought

It’s awkward because I realized how badly I was signaling my Tutuu copread and tried to make it look less blatant.

What else can I do? If I put him in my townreads then I’d be confirming my copread and if I put him in my wolfreads then it’d look weird if I tried to defend him.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:02 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:56 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:48 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:35 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:33 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:29 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:21 pm im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town
What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.
i had a villager read on him from his opening post of him being exhausted with his quirk

so basically he says that every game

one time he didn't - he was actual doctor. the next time he was doctor he said it, but im making the argument that wilgy attaches some ... lets say stress/anxiety/effort to his one-liner copy paste gimmick.

him expressing that he got tired of it this game, just like stopping it midway and being like "nvm" basically just reprents to me that he's a vanilla town. so in a way he "let jesus take the wheel"

i might be clearing him too easily, you are making me feel paranoid, but ...

he did sheep. which. hm.

if i try to justify my townread on wilgy im falling flat.

so lets say ... im just going with gut here. i cant provide solid logical argumetns for why wilgy is mega town

also to clarify im NOT softing a green on him
Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.
Just pulling some Camilla/Wilgy interactives.
I interpreted this as Tutuu having a green check on Wilgy. Which shows a lack of TMI rather than agenda.
Tutuu’s post there doesn’t seem like she greenchecked wilgy. She is actively waffling on whether or not she should be paranoid of him

Because I thought that she was trying to make her sound like she wasn’t the cop at all.

The entire point of leaving peeks is to make sure wolves don’t detect it so I was trying to make it look more discrete when I realized that I made my cop read too obvious.

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