The Syndicate

The early game state was pretty chaotic and unproductive. It's not out of line at all for Mac to think this.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:21 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:16 am
lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:01 am
lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:59 am if you’re talking about the message you think i’m taking about then it’s not because sabi was acting scummy, but that it was too easy and surface level
i had issue with how obvious and short it was at the time, this is a hard game and that was surface level, issue is that was the simplest route
?
mafia is not simple, things are not obvious, the mac/sabi read was too surface and too obvious implying it was way off but i understand the thought seanzie had

I don't agree with any of this but I can believe you believe it at least

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:01 am
lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:59 am if you’re talking about the message you think i’m taking about then it’s not because sabi was acting scummy, but that it was too easy and surface level
i had issue with how obvious and short it was at the time, this is a hard game and that was surface level, issue is that was the simplest route

?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:58 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:52 am I can move to Porscha over Sabi if Mac feels strongly that they towntold.
Porscha is a stronger townread of mine than Sabi. I'm gonna say vote Seanzie, you're gonna disagree so meh.

The thing about a Seanzie vote is that it's disastrous if he flips town.

I can move to Porscha over Sabi if Mac feels strongly that they towntold.

[VOTE: Achro] aubergine
[VOTE: Sabi] aubergine

Think these are fine parks

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:27 amwhat?

If you clear people for being drama queens about their own deaths

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:18 am not voting lucy ever

You will be burned by this attitude someday

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:59 am there is ZERO CHANCE I SURVIVE PRESSURE FROM MAC/ACHRO/ALISON WHEN CONSIDERED OUTED

I explicitly said earlier that my calling you outed was hyperbolic and I'm willing to consider you a townie and if you're town you should just focus on solving and trust me to get there on you.

Then I said repeatedly that I thought you were raising the sanity level of the game, that your treatment of Porscha was townie, and that I didn't want to vote you out D1.

What about this treatment makes you think "I can't survive"?

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:58 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:56 am
lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:46 am if ur town ur all lower
If someone asks to be killed, I gladly oblige.
I'm not asking, I'm saying there are 0 worlds where I possibly dig myself out of this Lynch, therefore further talking is useless from me when nothing I say will be listened to as town regardless

What makes you think that?

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:53 am got to everything before everyone too

What does this mean?

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:46 am if ur town ur all lower

If someone asks to be killed, I gladly oblige.

[VOTE: lucy] aubergine
[VOTE: sabi] aubergine

Like even when I was feuding with NAA and Mac I still had takes about other people.

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:21 am I have almost exclusively spoken to you since I took a break earlier

Why? Don't you have interest in the rest of the game?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:17 am [VOTE: sabi] aubergine

What a pop in lol

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:09 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:07 am Why are you townreading Sabi, Mac!
Sabi as mafia would have TMI on me as town and would be dining the fuck out on that in this game given the conversations we've had outside of game about how polarised I am etc. Her sussing me in this game is essentially a townslip.
I think you should be careful with what you say Alison. I never said it was out of her scumrange.

Right, my apologies for misremembering.

Well just vote Sabi then I guess.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:11 am Sabi is voting me and Mac and is thus outed.

Actually maybe not if Mac's meta on them is right.

@MacDougall So how about that thing where you said Sabi sussing you is out of their scum range? Do you still believe it?

Sabi is voting me and Mac and is thus outed.

Dr Wilgy Voters: Achromatic, lucy, Porscha, NotAnAxehole

This is never a hit. Wilgy is town.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:06 am Pretty sure this post never comes from town Seanzie.

Why? Sarcasm/openwolfing is something he has done before.

My most likely bad clear is actually falcon. I am giving him an easy townread for an objectively easy to fake post simply because I have meta on him. It wouldn't be hard for him to evolve his scum play a bit and snow me.

I will still give him a D1 pass but it vanishes after D1 unless he does townie things.

But like I am never gonna punt Seanzie D1 over slots like Achro, Sabi or even Wilgy when he can easily obvtown himself or bury mafia.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:01 am explain to me again why you are clearing seanzie so strongly?

I am not. He towntold once and has posts that are reminiscent of the Halvorsen Ridge game where he was the N2 kill. He is out of my immediate POE but I am not locktowning him.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:01 am Yeah let's just vote out Sabi and Achro, we can deal with lucy tomorrow. She feels kinda lost in the sauce wrt her discussion with Porscha but still tries to play in a pro town way so that's kinda townie. I might have suspected her for something that's just her playstyle.

Specifically I think it would have been very easy for her to degenerate the threadstate in her Porscha discussion but she still gives me solid "raising the town's sanity" vibes

Yeah let's just vote out Sabi and Achro, we can deal with lucy tomorrow. She feels kinda lost in the sauce wrt her discussion with Porscha but still tries to play in a pro town way so that's kinda townie. I might have suspected her for something that's just her playstyle.

Holy fuck is lucy just town lol

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:53 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:52 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:51 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:50 am So Porscha and lucy have been in their own little world debating semantics for 6 pages while everyone else ignores them. This means they are not mafia together.
I already made that read several pages ago when I said the mafia are achro plus one of them lol.
I don't think Sabi's return to the thread has been townie. It can be lucy Sabi.
Lol. Can it really tho?

Why not? It was one of my first guesses.

@lucy
Your read on Porscha is?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:51 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:50 am So Porscha and lucy have been in their own little world debating semantics for 6 pages while everyone else ignores them. This means they are not mafia together.
I already made that read several pages ago when I said the mafia are achro plus one of them lol.

I don't think Sabi's return to the thread has been townie. It can be lucy Sabi.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:50 am Like for everyone's benefit, a repeat experience I have in games which Alison alluded to, is suspecting people and questioning why they did certain things and arriving at a read one way or the other and then getting personally attacked for it. I would say that it occurs at a cadence of at least once per game. I don't think it's very fair and it happens all the time. Next time you find yourself loading up a personal insult at me consider whether I've actually said anything mean towards you at all to justify it because I am just playing a game I'm not attacking your character when I say you're mafia (most of the time).

Yeah I really hate it when people sign up for mafia games then act like being scumread is equivalent to having their family slaughtered. Mac is treated extremely unfairly for the crime of playing well.

So Porscha and lucy have been in their own little world debating semantics for 6 pages while everyone else ignores them. This means they are not mafia together.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:44 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:42 am alison, axe and myself aggressively interrogating each other =/= hostility ... nobody was being personally attacked (well except for when axe decided to take a potshot at alison's ego but she didn't seem to mind lol).
As someone who was third party, it felt hostile esp comments about people's skills level and what not

People accusing each other of having bad reads and being mafia isn't toxicity, it is a natural part of the game that you implicitly consent to receiving when you sign up.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:43 am
Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:41 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:40 am
Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:39 am @MacDougall can you explain the ate comment for Alison
you did a fine job explaining it, you don't need someone else to defend you. you can be you regardless of someone else's confusion of your play style
Fair enough. I'm just annoyed that I'm being judged for my lack of ate when everyone has been telling me to ate less.
for reference I appreciate it but my feeling at the time was that you were frustrated you couldn't deploy it as a weapon and felt trapped lol

That is exactly how I read it.

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:42 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:39 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:38 am I actually think lucy is a bad D1

[VOTE: Achro] aubergine
[VOTE: Sabi] aubergine
The reason why is that she increases the sanity level of the game so if she flips town there is a high chance the thread immediately devolves into a circus lol.
who? lucy?

Yeah

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:42 am alison, axe and myself aggressively interrogating each other =/= hostility ... nobody was being personally attacked (well except for when axe decided to take a potshot at alison's ego but she didn't seem to mind lol).

I didn't mind because I thought he was just trying to gaslight the town as mafia and was playing to his win condition rather than genuinely being insulting. In any case his remark isn't true. But yes that wasn't toxic at all.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:41 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:40 am this game was certainly more humorous when we were talking about seanzie's anal virginity but it's a lot more productive now lol.
I am not enjoying how hostile it has gotten. My other three games have turned into toxic waste so I had hope this would be wholesome.

There has been zero trace of toxicity this game. One of the things I respect about NAA and Mac is that we can have thunderdomes without being babies about it.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:41 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:40 am this game was certainly more humorous when we were talking about seanzie's anal virginity but it's a lot more productive now lol.

I don't mind if you guys wanna do it in DMs or postgame just not when I am trying to play lol

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:40 am this game was certainly more humorous when we were talking about seanzie's anal virginity but it's a lot more productive now lol.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:37 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:36 am yeah sure it's whatever I just wanna kill achro atm.

like achro goes from "come at me i never get mischopped one time in 6 years" to "chop me daddy" in the space of one game?
He was doing it from post 1 and I doubt he hops into scum chat and immediately goes "I'm gonna run it down guys, watch this". I am inclined to believe it is at least partially due to his IRL situation.

He is scummy anyway
I just don't vibe that he would ever do it as town like as town i'd expect "i'm not gonna be around but don't you dare sus me" type shit. It's a source of pride for him.

Ok well I am down to vote him regardless so let's just do it.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:38 am I actually think lucy is a bad D1

[VOTE: Achro] aubergine
[VOTE: Sabi] aubergine

The reason why is that she increases the sanity level of the game so if she flips town there is a high chance the thread immediately devolves into a circus lol.

I actually think lucy is a bad D1

[VOTE: Achro] aubergine
[VOTE: Sabi] aubergine

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:36 am yeah sure it's whatever I just wanna kill achro atm.

like achro goes from "come at me i never get mischopped one time in 6 years" to "chop me daddy" in the space of one game?

He was doing it from post 1 and I doubt he hops into scum chat and immediately goes "I'm gonna run it down guys, watch this". I am inclined to believe it is at least partially due to his IRL situation.

He is scummy anyway

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:59 am I'm not confirmation biasing. I am interrogating. And frankly I am enjoying it and also appreciate being able to do so to my full extent without getting made to feel like I'm being an asshole so thank you for being you.

By the way I've always thought you get way too much crap from people for genuinely trying to push them and pressure them in mafia games. There is a tendency for people to take it personally and make you out to be a monster for thinking they are mafia. I try not to do that.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:23 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:22 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:17 am Do you sus sabi?
I do.
what's the cause?

The "are [all my voters] expecting me to turn into an AtE machine" post felt extremely awkward and self aware. It is made worse by the fact that the last wolf game Sabi had they AtE'd very hard and felt bad about it, suggesting that they know they are "expected" to AtE in such circumstances but can't bring themselves to replicate the AtE as mafia again.

Beyond that, they came under fire early but zero people have show interest in voting them. If they were town I'd expect their wagon to look like Wilgy's. Instead crickets.

Lastly, their town game tends to have a lot of hot takes and strong opinions. When I towned with them they went balls to the wall to defend a dude who got caught soft claiming PR as not-PR when everyone else thought it was outing. They are willing to take strong and controversial stances. In contrast when I wolfed with them they were a lot more timid. Their play this game fits timidity more than boldness. Honestly I would expect town Sabi to have said something like "I think NAA and Alison are wolves together" by now.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:22 am you and Axe and Mac have a history together correct? all 3 of you were calling one another liars speaking mostly of numerous prior games, how/why should I take a hard stance that could get bodied by a meta read? I TR you but it wasn't an overriding meta TR, explain to me how I am to even interject and contribute in a conversation explicitly talking about previous games

What about...

"I don't know y'all's meta but the case on Alison is clearly full of shit lol."

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:17 am Do you sus sabi?

I do.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:17 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:16 am Achro
Wilgy
Lucy
Porscha
Sabi

Think all mafia in here assuming my clear on NAA is correct. Anyone willing to submit a towncase on one of these to narrow it down?
huzzah my NAA read is correct

On the plus side if you are town you can get post game cred from me for getting there first.

FWIW I am not 100% on you despite saying you are outed. That was partially hyperbole. But you are a top scumread of mine. I know you have the ability to obvtown when under pressure so if you are town I wouldn't worry about it. Just focus on finding the actual mafia and trust me to get there on you.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:16 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:13 am
lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:13 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:11 am [VOTE: Achro] aubergine
[VOTE: Lucy] aubergine

Still at lunch, on mobile. I'm not sure mafia NAA would be able to resist egging on a fight between me and Mac considering his views on us as townies. His turnaround is probably genuine.

Still think lucy is outed.

Just voting Achro as the default second.

I may change upon further thought once I get back. This is my knee jerk.
explain ur read on me
Same as before.
repeat it with more elaboration when ur free

You clearly thought that the push on me by NAA and Mac was bullshit, but your attempts at arguing against it lacked a genuine conviction to protect your townread. Your reason for townreading me seemed kind of random, and a little too light considering I just snowed you. All in all, I got the impression that your primary motivation for contributing to that conversation was to look good after an Alison flip rather than genuinely push a pro town agenda.

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