The Syndicate

Yeah they did. Mac was a great sub in.

I dunno, I was the one who congratulated the mafia team and left it at that, but you seem to be interested in figuring out who is "void of blame" and who the loss should be pinned on. What I wrote above was simply recording in fairly simple terms the exact things you told me.

So you didn't read him, you just assumed he was town, and this caused you to misclear the two other mafia. I see.

Again. Don't blame me for your own mistakes. You misread Nanook, and that caused you to misread Dizzy and Mac. You had an argument based on vote logic that Dizzy was town. Own up to your beliefs, own up that your reads were wrong, and stop being so egoistical that you blame the person who actually had correct reads for the loss simply because you refused to believe her.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:55 pm

Something... Something... Something... DaughterOfOmega.

Is Dizzy just confirmed town?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:32 am I feel like this thread has been just a wolfy circle jerk for the past couple pages. Dizzy is almost cleared inno child by vote logic, so naturally, they are going to die today.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:57 am Also, I don't think this discussion is appropriate Alison, if you need some pointers, you can reach out on discord.

Good job Nanook

Don't fucking come into the thread blaming me for the loss after JJJ specifically instructed people not to blame each other then.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:55 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:51 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:40 am I could have got there, but partially didn't re-read because I thought it would point to a conclusion that I couldn't be bothered pushing.

Anyway, I didn't take over the game thread, and didn't read... So I definitely feel like I can consider myself void of blame. TBH, this one is on Alison.

How's it on me? I pushed Dizzy/Nook every single day while you were talking about how they should never be exed because Dizzy is cleared by vote movements.

You took over the game, and never successfully killed mafia.

Oh, I see. So if one person loudly and correctly proclaims who the mafia are, and the rest of the thread stubbornly refuses to listen, the game's loss is the fault of the first person.

Why are there so many people coming into postgame to blame the loss on me after I was proven right? You don't see me going around claiming we lost because you were 100% convinced nook and Dizzy were town, do you? I praised the mafia team's performance and left it at that. Don't be a sore loser.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:40 am I could have got there, but partially didn't re-read because I thought it would point to a conclusion that I couldn't be bothered pushing.

Anyway, I didn't take over the game thread, and didn't read... So I definitely feel like I can consider myself void of blame. TBH, this one is on Alison.

How's it on me? I pushed Dizzy/Nook every single day while you were talking about how they should never be exed because Dizzy is cleared by vote movements.

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:33 pm Your perspective is wrong, which makes every conclusion following also incorrect. You are valuing YOUR READS, RESULTS, over the emotions/feelings of people who signed up to play a GAME.

Someone told you how they felt after what you did, and your response was "Well I ended up finding mafia, that's all that matters"

I don't know if you are a sociopath, or slighted toward that, but if so try and read about emotions some.

1) That's correct. I am aware that you are upset about me pushing you D1. I value my results over this feeling, and that seems obviously correct to me. If I were to drop my scumread on someone every time someone got upset at me for it, I would never be able to push scum. Conversely, I would suggest that it's the responsibility of the player not to get angry at other players for playing the game, and to refrain from excessive displays of AtE. I do not see it as unjustified for me to have a suspicion in a mafia game and act on it, and while it's unfortunate that you had such a strong emotional reaction to it, I'm not going to let it stop me from playing the game. You are always welcome to either a) sub out of the game or b) speak to the moderator on duty if you feel that the game is negatively affecting your life. Otherwise, the job of other players is to advance their win condition, not protect your feelings.

2) This is not what being a sociopath means.

Well, it's not just the ban 3 years ago. You've made periodic attempts to evade that ban using alternate accounts. When these alternate accounts are discovered to be your alts, they're re-banned, and this is logged in the Ban Announcement Thread on MU. This is important because it suggests an ongoing pattern of behavior, rather than a mistake 3 years ago that you've learned from. The last banned alt was a mere 6 days ago - so your problematic behavioral patterns don't extend to the past, but rather continue on into the present. This, too, is something I brought up when I initially mentioned your ban.

Saying that you want to cut yourself as a result of what goes on in a game of mafia is, I think, an excellent illustration of my point that you get overly emotional as a result of being scumread and respond with toxic and negative behavior. Threatening self-harm as a result of what goes on in-game is terrible behavior, and adversely affects everyone in the game. This is why you were banned, and whatever the cause of this behavior, it's unacceptable both on MU and on virtually every game in the Syndicate. I had a game that explicitly allowed extreme AtE, as an experiment, and I would have modkilled anyone who tried this, for instance.

It's interesting, then, that you draw a comparison between me and yourself from 2018. I'm not mentally unstable or bipolar - the things that you said got you banned in 2018. Nor do I react emotionally or threaten self-harm when things don't go my way in a mafia game. Nor does "everyone hate [me]" - a characterization that you claim describes yourself back in 2018. I'd love to hear what similarities you're finding between me and you from 2018, but all the things you've mentioned about yourself from that time period don't track with what I'm seeing from myself.

I don't think it's particularly dehumanizing to bring up your ban Rachel. Being banned doesn't make you less of a human being, and virtually nobody would suggest otherwise. As for the accusation that I am attacking your character rather than defending my own actions, I've done plenty of that. I've shown, for example, that the D1 exe on you wasn't particularly detrimental to town insofar as you weren't putting forth a terribly large amount of effort to solve the game, and that the wagon dynamics generated by your exe actually helped in identifying mafia. So personally, I think my play this game was fine, and I parked my vote on a mafia member every day after D1. That's my argument as to why what I did was correct.

I brought it up because it is evidence that you aren't a good source on how to get along with others in mafia. What do you think was objectionable about broaching the subject? What I said was factually accurate and cogent to the discussion at hand (what is and isn't an acceptable way to behave in mafia games).

I think your posts have only proven and reinforced what I've said about you.

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:03 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:57 pm the game was clearly lost by me and NAA smh alison did fine

I'm not in the mood to post again in this thread. Derailing me from the game immediately, as a fellow towny who could have solved this game, means Alice played horribly. I was not allowed to play this game comfortably or hell at all. I wanted to play and read, just relax and not feel harassed for signing up to a game of mafia. If you are ever the cause of making a town member feel this and not play the game, you have created a massive issue. We lost so much EV from a day one lynch that nobody even cared about, not a single town even tried to reengage with me. Town played so badly day one, that honestly didn't deserve to rebound.

I'm not going to argue further because it's obvious, and telling people truthful takes seems to be difficult here.

You need to stop treating being called scum as a personal attack. Nobody insulted or harassed you, you were just voted off because most players in this game thought you were scum. I don't consider your death to have been a great loss for town either since you weren't scumhunting at all and were just posting song lyrics.

On the other hand based off D1 dynamics I was able to identify both Dizzy and nanook as scum on D2, so I don't think it was a failure of the day.

Personally I enjoy a reasonably strong degree of success in mafia and people generally enjoy playing with me and invite me to their games. On the other hand you have been permanently banned from one mafia site (including a recent attempt to evade that ban) and are now stating your intentions to leave another. I don't think you're in a position to be telling me what is the best way to play games in a way that makes others not dislike playing with me.

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:44 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:06 pm Wolves played great. I never thought Mac would tiebreak in favor of Bo over me after I suspected Dizzy and nook early on. Dizzy played wonderful too, keeping up the tension between the two of us and delaying resolution of the thunderdome by manipulating townies to push elsewhere instead. Nook preying on town vulnerabilities as usual. Really solid wolf play, and a great team I'm not ashamed to lose to.

When you were key in the loss, I'm glad you shifted to how great the mafia team was over how badly you played.

There's not a next time for me, so I feel alright in being pretty harsh. Since you seem to care a lot about these games, you need to be more understanding of others. Not only will you someday improve your ability to read the game, others might actually enjoying playing around you.

I had 2/3 mafia on D2 and tunnelled them to the end of the game. I don't think getting rid of a neg utility townie makes me key in the loss.

I thought Lu Ren was obvious town and she was also right about everything.

Every CFD this game was anti-town.

Wolves played great. I never thought Mac would tiebreak in favor of Bo over me after I suspected Dizzy and nook early on. Dizzy played wonderful too, keeping up the tension between the two of us and delaying resolution of the thunderdome by manipulating townies to push elsewhere instead. Nook preying on town vulnerabilities as usual. Really solid wolf play, and a great team I'm not ashamed to lose to.

There i gave you the solve

You can choose to sheep or not, up to you

I cannot find a world where TSP is town so you should prolly fuck him up too

Axe is either scum or griefing never listen to anything he has to say ever

Vote dizzy you coward mac

just turbo dizzy if i die, no excuses. Sheep my 5 person poe.

dont have the energy or mood to say more. You know where i stand.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:21 pm @Alison strength of your dizzy read?

80%

@falcon45ca @Luckbox Inc @TonyStarkPrime vote for one of me and dizzy you cowarsa

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:01 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:00 pm Ive drunk a can of cider and I'm a mega lightweight so I'm gonna play this fast and loose

By fast and loose I'm assuming by maintaining a rigid tunnel?

Tipsy =/= gamethrowing

Ive drunk a can of cider and I'm a mega lightweight so I'm gonna play this fast and loose

Oh yeah falc angleshot, nice

Remove him from POE and replace him with axe

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:07 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:00 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:57 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:56 pm I'm out right now but I've changed my mind and now think you should turbo Axe if Dizzy flips scum

He has been Dizzysiding way too hard for absolutely no reason

Occam's Razor says if you tunnel 2 people with exactly the same wagon, you can probably expect a similar result.

I don't think this is true

Does it happen often that you kill town in a near-majority, then kill scum with the same group of people in a split vote where the other option was town?

LUL

Yes

In fact I'm struggling to understand what kind of logic would possibly make it true unless you believe that players always receive the same results on the wagons they push

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:57 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:56 pm I'm out right now but I've changed my mind and now think you should turbo Axe if Dizzy flips scum

He has been Dizzysiding way too hard for absolutely no reason

Occam's Razor says if you tunnel 2 people with exactly the same wagon, you can probably expect a similar result.

I don't think this is true

I'm out right now but I've changed my mind and now think you should turbo Axe if Dizzy flips scum

He has been Dizzysiding way too hard for absolutely no reason

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:31 am I think I'm ready to turbo these and see what happens:

Dizzy
Ender
Finger

If it's all town, then I'd probably follow that up with something like Mac, Alison, Nanook... IDK (at that point I'm probably losing)

If there's mafia in the first 3 I have 2 different names I'd go after.

Let's do Dizzy then.

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

We should exe within Dizzy/Alison today because it's out last chance to not auto lose if it's T/T.

I actually need to make a 5 person POE, not a 6 person POE with the ratio of players currently in the game.

So remove Axe I guess. Dizzy, Ender, falcon, Nanook, TSP.

Dyslexicon - ISO
EnderWiggin - ISO
falcon45ca - ISO
fingersplints - ISO
Grogu => Syn - ISO => MacDougall - ISO
Lu Ren - ISO
Luckbox Inc - ISO
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - ISO
NotAnAxehole - ISO
TonyStarkPrime - ISO

Remove Mac, Luren, splints.

Dyslexicon - ISO
EnderWiggin - ISO
falcon45ca - ISO
Luckbox Inc - ISO
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - ISO
NotAnAxehole - ISO
TonyStarkPrime - ISO

Need to cut one person from here to make a 6 person POE. I'm thinking between Luckbox and Axe. The argument that Luckbox is miscleared is that they kinda dipped recently and hasn't been influencing the thread a bunch even though I remember them being fairly active as town. The argument that Axe is miscleared is that they've been trying very hard to influence the exes and trumpeting about how town will go astray without them, but we haven't gotten any good results (and the BK exe was orchestrated by them).

I could see a townie being disheartened and dipping, or just having real life stuff to deal with. I'd remove Luckbox from the POE. So my 6 person POE is Dizzy, Ender, falcon, Nanook, Axe, TSP.

Posts have been townie, just the right amount of emotion at being wrongly suspected. Lots of people toss her into the POE, nobody seems inclined to stand up for her. Even the people that don't really suspect her or consider her lightly town aren't shielding her. I don't believe in DADV reads but if you do then that probably applies here too.

I kinda think splints is town.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:40 pm Mafia Mac never saves Alison town. Trust that lol.

I agree which is why I have been giving you so much credit for Alisonsiding.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:39 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:37 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:34 pm Thoughts:
Why is Alison alive? First thing I thought of while I woke up this morning.

If she's green and I'm right with my town leans then one vote from mafia would've flipped her.

I chose to kill Bo instead of her because I believe her to be town.

If Fingers is red and Alison green, Fingers could have easily gotten away with a vote on Alison and she would have flipped.

Bo was an easy ML though, and maybe keeping Alison around is part of the plan.

Ideally I would like LB today but:

IF Fingers flips Red, this actually gives Mac a strong town lean.

If Dizzy is mafia then the reason why is obvious

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:22 pm If I leave Alison out and suggest something like a
Luckbox > If LB flips red > Fingers > Lu Ren > Mac > TSP
If LB flips green > Lu Ren > If Lu Ren Flips Red > Mac? > Fingers > TSP
If Lu Ren Flips Green > Re-evaluate everything and scream.

POE then idk.

It's 2:30 AM

I'm dead.

Why's Dizzy not in this list? Especially if you're willing to consider me town?

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:34 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:31 am

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:30 am I should theoretically be able to poe game too today.

Perhaps Ender can work with me.

It's 1:30 AM and I'm coffee and I have work tomorrow. I'm pretty much pushing myself to try and find a basis for solve tonight.

OR at least a solid basis so I can stop being so fucking confused.

Fun fact, though, I need to re-think you pretty hard.

I'm actually pretty solidly set on you being good here and confused about why Alison wants to kill you.

What's your case?

Also I feel we should start taking the dead townies' reads a little more seriously before they have an aneurysm at us in spec chat.

Esooa wanted to kill "everyone on the Alison wagon" which is nook, Dyslexicon, and Axe.

Seanzie wanted to kill Alison, Ender, and Mac.

Let us presume that there is at least one wolf in each of these three-person sets. Neither of them were so blazingly conftown that they would have been killed if they were completely wrong on every scumread. Everyone should state who they think is the most likely wolf in each of their legacies.

I'm voting Dyslexicon and Ender.

@EnderWiggin how are you so eager to hop on a wagon Mac started when you wanted to blast his head off yesterday?

I think fingersplints is townie now.

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:28 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:24 am What’s the second one of Alison’s reads that was wrong

She had a scum read on Belzy.

BK was in my POE but I wasn't hard pushing him and I explicitly said I preferred to vote you over BK, and in fact ended up doing so at EOD.

So no I'm not going to panic about him flipping town and "do reflection". That's ridiculous.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:22 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:02 am probably things that aren't alison since other people want to fight each other today

Ok, but what I want to talk about is how Alison's "Unless my reads are bad" post is actually scummy, because first of all she had already implied Mac scum in that post, but still asked "who would be scum then?" when she had a beginning answer (that she both recognised and didn't recognise in the same post). And two of her scum reads have already been proven wrong (and I'm the third) so it's not really a question of her reads being wrong. It's been kind of hard for me not to focus on Alison since I have a unique perspective on it. She's tunnelling town here.

My point is that a Mac scum world where he is using me as a pawn doesn't make sense because in that world who are his partners?

Lu Ren? Luckbox? Axe?

Doesn't make sense to me.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:54 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:37 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:36 am Mac is hard Alisonsiding and I don't see his incentive to do so as mafia even if he does have TMI

Unless all my reads are wrong and he is using me as a pawn but then who is scum in that world? I don't see it

Your reads have been proven wrong. Any reflection on that, or do you not "see it"?

DOO has been proven wrong.

Seanzie has been proven right.

I'm 1/2 with reads. Don't think I've been that wrong.

Im going to go back to sleep just to prove to mac that irl > ww