The Syndicate

Me neither. I thought I had him this time too.

Hey look my one proper contribution to the game was correct. Thank god.

Sorry to everyone for my activity and the distraction it caused.

I've still never once seen scum Juliets.

I really want to see scum Juliets one time.

I was supposed to look at someone different and I didn't.

I'm not in a tunnel, you're in a tunnel.

In fact, the sequence of posts is this:
Shade dropped with a simple 'ewww' to something LC says.
Follows this new suss up with a question to Tutuu ('thoughts on Long Con?')
Tutuu brushes him off and he calmly acquiesces.

There is no further follow up on this sudden suspicion of LC that I can see. In fact...
Despite the shade thrown at LC earlier the player salad includes a very consensus PoE and no mention of LC. This is only a few posts in between for Made, albeit several hours later in real time.


So where the heck did Made's suspicion of LC go?

I know this says more on Made than LC, but it still seems like Made was not interested in pursuing his suspicion on Long Con.

Just scrolling through Made's iso again (cuz it's short) and I don't see any reason it can't be LC. In fact, Made throws very light shade at LC at one point and never brings it up again.

(I'm sure this has been noted - I'm just doing things on my own because I work better that way.)


On a different note, I'm somewhat reassured again that it probably isn't tutuu.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:15 pm scum!lc after the tides turned against him in grasslands:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:58 am Ok cool. That may be the last time you ever see me try. Good luck!

lc after the tides turned against him this game:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:18 pm Ok, you guys play the game. Good luck, I hope we win.

does lc ever respond this way as town?

Don't know, but this sort of read has already worked once this game.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:57 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:52 pm The wagonomics of EoD1 will make perfect sense once the game is over.

At this point I think it's clear it's a bowl of WIFOM.

well fypov marnot was voting a villager EoD1. how likely do you think he is to move to you as wolf with made and epi as his teammates?

I've given marmot little thought tbh, and haven't re-read EoD1 in awhile so I forget the exact timings of it.

When I left the thread it was 6-5 Made-Guillo, though personally I definitely felt like a viable flash wagon choice and half-expected to wake up to that. w!Marmot would definitely have been better off on Guillo if he wanted to save Made, though. There wasn't that much time left, so flash wagoning me was risky.

I don't think it clears Marmot, but optics look better for him here than not, imo.

The wagonomics of EoD1 will make perfect sense once the game is over.

At this point I think it's clear it's a bowl of WIFOM.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:33 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:25 pm I wish I could answer the question of why Made moved from Guillo (town) to MR late in EOD1.

that’s a good question. dizzy seemed to think it reflected badly on radish. i think the opposite because of the lead up to the vote. made was actively trying to get votes onto radishes before he voted there (even pinging people directly asking them to vote radishes). i don’t know why he needs to do that to a teammate as a wolf when it’s easier to just get more people on guillo, but i guess you could also ask why he wouldn’t try to get more people on guillo if radishes is town

Speaking as someone who has been caught in that D1 chop position before as a wolf, it feels more 'townie-like' to go for a third flash wagon option. It's what I'd do, anyway. People who start flash wagons usually get a quiet towncred rather than any suss, ime.

So, tutuu, am I right to summarise your most recent addition to a case against me as 'here are a couple posts from MR's recent wolf game that sound like his posts from this one' ?

You picked pretty NAI posts from me tbh. You seem to be focusing on the fact that I got called out for slanking in that other game, and that I pocketed players familiar to me in it too by saying how much I love them.

I rarely do anything useful D1, regardless of alignment. I often throw love at familiar players I haven't played with in awhile, regardless of alignment.

Between this and the literal interpretation of my whole 'he said he never sasses people as a wolf' statement, I feel you're being really nitpicky with me. Like you're set on me being scum, and you don't seem to be truly considering any other option.

This is the kind of thing I associate more with a wolf than a vill. I'm still not over Made's interactions around you, but if you're indeed town you're showing that you're closed off from re-evaluating reads you've held since D1, and that's not a great strategy.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:45 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:42 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:40 pm sassiness is not the same as frustration tutuu. he said he’s not sassy as wolf to the point of frustrating people, not that he himself never fakes frustration as wolf

that is yet again not what he's saying

stop telling me what he's saying, i am reading his posts myself

@Master Radishes what are you saying?

Exactly how you're interpreting it. Tutuu is being very literal.


Now everyone stop posting for two minutes so I can stop refreshing.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:37 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:33 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:29 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:28 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:26 pm actually that’s a lie, radishes’s slanking D1 did frustrate me a bit

Tbh this should just lock me town.

I've made people flip tables with my sassiness before on many occasions, and I know you can't just take my word for it but I'm certain I've only ever done that as town.

can you link this latest wolf game of yours and also

can u think over this claim of yours that you're never sassy and never fake frustration as mafia? are you sure? double sure? completely sure?

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ung-Heroes
Around D3 (?) it was Christmas and I wasn't around and soah sussed me out and I ended up NKed due to mech. But up to that point I was doing well.


Also I don't get what you're referring to...did I sass you as a wolf?

answer the question wolf

in all of your mafia career have you not once faked frustration as mafia

do you double down on this claim or rescind

I'm sure I've faked it, but to the point of actually getting people openly annoyed at me? The only examples I remember come from me being town. I don't remember every game I've ever played though.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:36 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:31 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:28 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:23 pm Nope, one more bit of confbias.

LC felt grumpy not long ago, and suddenly his attitude feels light and jokey.

Feels like a sudden and deliberate shift.



....Okay now I'll stop tunneling. For now.

i like this observation but i’m also light and jokey now too

but i don’t get his hugging emoji to you. what is that about?

I assume he's being comforting because I've clearly had a bad game and am desperate to have something put me in a good light.


(...but no, I don't get why v!LC, seeing the slanker come after him too, reacts that way.)

but that requires him to think you’re town? and be weirdly okay with you suspecting him? that he hugs you? i’m just confused by that reaction but i might be nitpicking

I agree it's...not what I was expecting.

If I'm a vill and slanky mcslankerson starts sussing me after supa townie Hally does, I think I get more frustrated and claim opportunism. I don't send a huggy emoji.


Anyway, dipping now. I'll return to solve the game with you later.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:32 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:30 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:26 pm if i had to rank the order of expressed frustrations in how genuine i found them:

(from top to bottom)

master radishes
hally
long con
marmot

seanzie actually hasnt expressed frustration tbh

but regardless of any of this i simply want to kill MR. everyone else has aided in chopping wolves. MR has not done that. sure he could be town but that doesn't mean its logical to yeet someone else imo

but i probably need to back it up with more behidn why i townread everyone else

and i dont wanna do that yet

You found me genuine but want to chop me still?

I don't mind someone wanting to kill me off - your explanation is sadly fair - but your stance here confuses me.

i find you the winner i tnerms of townyness in th regards of whose frustratio ni found the most genuine

i find you the loser in terms of townyness of who has killed wolves

im comparing the two and deciding to put more weight on the latter since youre not a new player and i belive youre probably capable of faking the former

Got it.

Your conclusion is fair enough in italics.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:29 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:28 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:26 pm actually that’s a lie, radishes’s slanking D1 did frustrate me a bit

Tbh this should just lock me town.

I've made people flip tables with my sassiness before on many occasions, and I know you can't just take my word for it but I'm certain I've only ever done that as town.

can you link this latest wolf game of yours and also

can u think over this claim of yours that you're never sassy and never fake frustration as mafia? are you sure? double sure? completely sure?

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ung-Heroes
Around D3 (?) it was Christmas and I wasn't around and soah sussed me out and I ended up NKed due to mech. But up to that point I was doing well.


Also I don't get what you're referring to...did I sass you as a wolf?

Btw thanks everyone for Seanzie explanation. I'm good with putting him aside, just wasn't sure why based on not reading everything in D3 yet.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:28 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:23 pm Nope, one more bit of confbias.

LC felt grumpy not long ago, and suddenly his attitude feels light and jokey.

Feels like a sudden and deliberate shift.



....Okay now I'll stop tunneling. For now.

i like this observation but i’m also light and jokey now too

but i don’t get his hugging emoji to you. what is that about?

I assume he's being comforting because I've clearly had a bad game and am desperate to have something put me in a good light.


(...but no, I don't get why v!LC, seeing the slanker come after him too, reacts that way.)

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:26 pm if i had to rank the order of expressed frustrations in how genuine i found them:

(from top to bottom)

master radishes
hally
long con
marmot

seanzie actually hasnt expressed frustration tbh

but regardless of any of this i simply want to kill MR. everyone else has aided in chopping wolves. MR has not done that. sure he could be town but that doesn't mean its logical to yeet someone else imo

but i probably need to back it up with more behidn why i townread everyone else

and i dont wanna do that yet

You found me genuine but want to chop me still?

I don't mind someone wanting to kill me off - your explanation is sadly fair - but your stance here confuses me.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:26 pm actually that’s a lie, radishes’s slanking D1 did frustrate me a bit

Tbh this should just lock me town.

I've made people flip tables with my sassiness before on many occasions, and I know you can't just take my word for it but I'm certain I've only ever done that as town.

What's the latest stance on Seanzie btw? I've missed any reason why he's not a part of this conversation.

I don't want it to be Marmot because that would make, what was it, 6 games in a row as scum? I can't fathom that.



On a serious note, surely w!Marmot would continue to play in a style that's worked, and I think I've seen people say this doesn't look all that similar to previous w!Marmot games? But tbh I just don't want to do the work of casing anyone else if I can get away with not doing it.

Nope, one more bit of confbias.

LC felt grumpy not long ago, and suddenly his attitude feels light and jokey.

Feels like a sudden and deliberate shift.



....Okay now I'll stop tunneling. For now.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:19 pm well we gotta admit that every single living player at this point has at least once expressed frustration except jules but she doesnt count for this anyway

so whoever is the mafia, we know that they are faking it / playing it up. at least thats a fact we know

So like, if you asked me whose frustration has felt most fake if I had to choose someone...I'd probably say LC.


With that bit of confbias, I better look elsewhere for a change.

Also I really hope it's Long Con because then I can at least hang my hat on something in this god awful game of mine.

Also Hally, my secret tinfoil I mentioned earlier was tutuu, because she really dropped in energy after D1 / after the suspicion on her went away. She felt really content to maintain the status quo, e.g. she'd drop in with a post like 'let's just chop Radishes' and didn't actually try to engage with any ongoing discussions or anything.

But I agree that she feels a bit better again today, and I can't help but feel Made's enormous attention paid to her in his iso is more likely townclearing than not.

I dunno. I'm not as confident on tutuu, but maybe it's just tinfoil.

I remember Assassin's Creed (not very well but sort of). I think I ended up having 3 of 4 scum wagon me to get me chopped in that one.

One of the underlying concerns I have with LC this game is how different he sounds to the LC I know from my own experience. But I'm trying to prevent myself lending serious weight to that because most times I've played with LC he's clearly slanking a bit due to irl and so on, and I don't want to scumread him just for being more engaged than I remember, because that's stupid. But I do feel there's something different about how he's playing. He's more...switched on, more entangled in the minutiae of the game, more willing to get into point-for-point discussions. The v!LC I remember isn't afraid to slank a bit, doesn't really justify his reads very much, shows no care about his own image, etc. I don't see that here.

This is a stupid basis for a scumread and not one I'm willing to stake the game on, but that's where I've been at with LC all game.

I'm not ready to get into an argument, and am going to dip from the thread again soon.

But this

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:16 pm You are really deep into the confirmation bias, Hally. What an ugly thing to wake up to. Suddenly every single interaction I've had with Epi is suspicious, whether I'm accusing him of being bad, or giving him a pass.

Take a look at Assassin's Creed if you want to see how I interact with Epi when we're bad together. I did not bus him, I voted him once when he was almost hammered, in a regrettably awkward way that frankly should have outed me. I don't bus Epignosis. He fucking hates it.

just feels like a post I write (or want to write) when I'm scum and am caught. Not the sentiment - I definitely get frustrated at percieved confbias when town too - but how it's phrased, how he refers to a past game, etc.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:02 am @Master Radishes i think you’re town. and i need you. please help me solve the game

Ugh. This is just AtE...and it's working. Now I feel compelled to devote a couple hours of proper iso analysis to the game. Damn it Hally.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:57 am because although radishes is a capable wolf, he’s not a confident one really.

What evidence do you have I'm capable? You've seen me try to wolf before.


I actually had a decent wolf game recently on MU. We lost, but I got very little attention and a lot of towncred for a good three or four rounds before things fell apart due to mechanics. I'm pretty proud of it tbh considering how bad my scum games have been in 2020.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:26 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:43 am I started catching up and then realised it's just going to be 3 pages of Hally saying 'it's just gotta be radishes' so I stopped.



(It's not, Hally.)

really? so because you’re in my poe you just.... don’t want to read the game? like... come on

I didn't mean for this to come across as snarky or anything. Should've included a or something to make that clear.

I totally get why I'm in the PoE. Just felt like it wasn't worth my time reading a couple pages of seeing people discuss it and so skipped ahead.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:46 am who u think is last maf

I'll need to re-think things, considering I've just woken up to find out Epi is mafia.

Also ,

[VOTE: Epi] aubergine


and I'm gonna go back to refusing to try to read Epi in future games, since apparently I can't do it as well as I thought I could.

I started catching up and then realised it's just going to be 3 pages of Hally saying 'it's just gotta be radishes' so I stopped.



(It's not, Hally.)

I'm willing to reconsider Epi, since I don't have any hard reason to say he can't be scum, but Tony being anywhere near the PoE right now is ridiculous. That's not something we reconsider until another bad shot.

Someone remind me in D4, or D3 if things aren't going well, that I have a super secret tinfoil read percolating in my head right now.

I'm just going to go to bed.

I'd prefer not to get flash wagoned again, but I understand it's a professional hazard of being me.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:20 pm does epi have viable teammates? he doesn’t seem aligned with marmot or lc or sean

so if this is a hard game with martin/tony/radishes all town i’m not really seeing who he fits with

On a different note, Marmot/LC/Sean is my exact 'no reason to think they're scum but not fully sold on them definitely being town' crowd.

I distrust that sort of crowd, particularly when I start being uncertain about the PoE.

Maybe we can flash wagon Marmot?

It'd be funny.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:15 pm but i still don’t think i’d chop anyone else over him

Yeah I'm staring at the names in the poll right now and I don't have any better option. Like not even a credibly spicy take.

Maybe I just love EoD chaos so much I'm mistaking disappointment for uncertainty.

[VOTE: MartinG99] aubergine

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:14 pm cause we can flash wagon you if you want

Bring it.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:14 pm do you really?

Yeah.

...I do sort of feel he's sounding townie right now though.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:09 pm i think i’m just gonna stay on martin

wouldn’t be surprised if he’s town though

Yeah that's how I feel, sans an actual vote there ofc.

I guess Martin is a worthy chop still, at least considering I don't have a better alternative and it'll either confirm or reject the consensus PoE. (Not for everyone, since I'd be alive still, but I won't care what any of you think.) I don't have to stretch my brain to see w!Martin receiving the ghost bike thingy and immediately hoping to leverage it into towncred by being cagey and everything. In a vacuum he's been fine in his posting, so like, I'm not so sure on this either. But on balance he more or less exists in the same position as he did during the Guillo-era, and to me that's choppable.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:58 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:59 pm Has anyone even done an iso of seanzie yet? I'm keeping up albeit not retaining everything, but I don't remember anyone seriously actually trying to sort seanzie one way or the other. A few little things, sure, but I feel like he's not gotten close attention.

I have no reason to think he's scum, but he's definitely in that mid-range of presence level where good wolves try to hide themselves. Dunno. It's probably worth a look later.

dizzy strongly thought sean was town

I generally don't believe in 'listening to dead townies' tbh. Their view is a remnant of a previous gamestate.

Again, I have no reason to doubt Sean is town, it's just a slot that hasn't gotten much attention one way or another imo.

Has anyone even done an iso of seanzie yet? I'm keeping up albeit not retaining everything, but I don't remember anyone seriously actually trying to sort seanzie one way or the other. A few little things, sure, but I feel like he's not gotten close attention.

I have no reason to think he's scum, but he's definitely in that mid-range of presence level where good wolves try to hide themselves. Dunno. It's probably worth a look later.

Player salad and coffee tell in the same game would be *chefs kiss*

Please let the coffee tell be real.

Okay, I'm out of time for the night (unless my wife falls asleep quickly and I decide to play a bit more before I drift off).

I'm at:

TSP is town by virtue of vig claim.
Hally is town by virtue of how they handled me, which from my perspective felt like what I'd expect from them, considering our recent games together. Can elaborate if required.
Tutuu is probably town by spew.

Epi is probably my strongest other townlean, but I'm less confident than the above.

I've not made a concerted effort to read a few others like seanzie and juliets.

I don't know who I find particularly scummy anymore. Maybe still Guillo/Martin most, GTH. Still not a fan of LC either. But neither are super strong reads.