The Syndicate

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:02 pm Also as somebody who doesn't know everyone's alts and stuff.
Who is Dizzy? Because everyone keeps mentioning them and I have no idea.

It me

I'm way too impatient.

Town people:
Guillo
Sean
Tony
Martin
Lime

I'm unsure on Gavial, don't care if he dies.

Unsure on Falcon, but my iffy read on him was more based off of his interaction with Gavial. Still think if Gavial is mafia or Falcon is, the other is likely to be. Outside of this though, I don't really have any problems with Falcon.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:40 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:36 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:16 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:55 pm Guys...Gavial is pinging me again...make him stop...

Particularly by doing this.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine
was there a specific post or series of posts you could point at as pinging you

Spoiler: show
Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:01 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:33 pm 16, 4, 18, 1, 13, 9, 7

That is my RNG POE

So Seanzie, falcon, TSP, Dolby, Nook, LP, & Jack...let's start flipping these goons
I like that but not LP.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:03 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:02 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:10 am
Dolby wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:28 pm Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down
Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.
What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?

Sean is in my sus pile
I can sheep you!
Inside the spoiler but post #1 Gavial takes Falcon's RNG team guess and says "I'm fine with all of them except for LP" which is taking a joke post seriously and literally just being "Fine" with the rest of the names being voted off.

Post #2 just yells out "I can sheep you!" towards Falcon for saying he sus's Sean. Like is he fine with sheeping Falcon because he agrees that Sean is wolfie orrrrrr...?
hmmm was hopeful that we were looking at the same thing but ig not

what're your thoughts on this then @Gavial

Low to mid key think this is towny for Martin.
I think it shows he did have a reaction and thoughts about specifics from Gavial, and was hoping that it would be something he could discuss with Lime. So it's not fabricated, it was a reaction that was really there.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:25 pm Same question @sabie12
Eh guillo thinks I can't read and dyslexicon didn't like that I hadn't provided much content or reads yet and is trying to get me to participate more.

I actually didn't explain my vote on you at all, I think?

But that is pretty much it, yeah. Curious.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:24 pmThey are basically doing what I expect wolf them to do and their interacts and everything and dizzy’s posts don’t feel natural Townie at all.

You don't know me like that.

Gavial, real talk. You know you're super frustrating to play with, because you pick a random ass tunnel and just go weeeeeee every fucking game. It is a reasons people keep calling your reads bad.

I don't know how to help you read me if you're trying, cause it seems to me like you've just picked a read and conf bias everything.

I'm obviously trying to solve the game, and it's there if you want to see it. I don't give a shit how my posts "feels" to you. I'll interact as little as possible with you, cause I have nothing nice to say.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:23 pm
Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:18 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:16 pm
Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:15 pm Guillo and Dizzy both flipping Wolf should confirm both me and Sig.
I must have missed a lot lol. Are these preflip associations or did we really catch 2 wolves before I made my first post?
We only caught them if one of them flip Wolf.
They are literally both aligned together.
Either Wolf or Town.
Got it. Are they like acting scummy?

Dizzy is one of my favorite players and I don't want to remove them from the game just cause. Guillo's like...okay I guess.

I love you, Jackofmyheart.

Have you played with Gavial before?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:17 pm Boo hiss no wolf flips yet.

Gurl. No.

Get caught up I wanna talk with you <3

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:10 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:56 pm Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.
Calls me town in this post but then says I’m doing what I did in my scum game in the next.

LOL.

What's your point?

You did do that in your last scum game I saw.
I've seen you make bad reads and tunnel as both town and mafia.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:09 pmWithout a reason?
Your posts have been very stingy, I see more wolf equity behind it.

If you all think “Bad Play” and “ML material” is a good reason to push someone then your just asking to lose.

Yeah, you haven't given a reason prior to this.

Why is "very stingy" wolfy for me?
It isn't.

sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:00 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:21 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:15 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:09 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:04 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:03 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:56 pm Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.
Is gavial usually high content mafia member?

Since I'm liking the level of though and quality of his posts atm
What do you consider «quality» in his posts?
Like not just random fluff or throwing things out there. Seems to be doing alot of attempted gamesolving for D1. Which unless he has a history of being suptown mafia isn't something I'd think most mafia members would do so early. So i guess it's less what he's saying/posting, but more that he's gamesolving and posting alot.
I love when someone I scum read posts a read on someone I also suspect because, I don't see a wolf who sees the position wolf!Gavial is in and tries to defend him. Why risk it? To dirty him more in case Gavial is still alive when Sig flips? Is it worth associating him/heself with Gavial if Sig was scum?

I think Sig is town if Gavial is scum.
If Gavial is scum, Sig is town. Agreed.
If Sig is scum, Gavial is town (because Sig’s post here would be tmi, and similar to your reasoning - Sig wouldn’t talk about a buddy like this.

So basically a difference check here.
Unless they are both town, which is possible.
This seems like some confused confirmation bias/set up for at least one maybe two lynches. More so from Gullio then you though.

the play will go as such.

"Let's vote sig since that'll prove this about gavil and we can town core him" Then when i flip town, It'll be Ooops wrong about sig no big deal lets vote gavil now since no way can they be on the same team"

Annnnnnnnnnd BOOM two town players gone and most likely no blow back created.

Do i think this is gonna happen? Maybe too early in game to tell. Do I think mafia gullio is trying to lay ground work for it? Yes, yes i do.

If one of you flip mafia, the other is town imo.
Doesn’t mean the other is mafia if one of you flip town.

sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:14 pm How series is this jack talk? Since if its joking whatever, but if not I'm very much against voting off someone with no posts and it raises a red flag for anyone that wants to do it.

And who wants to do it? Nobody has suggested it afaik

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:15 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:09 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:04 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:03 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:56 pm Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.
Is gavial usually high content mafia member?

Since I'm liking the level of though and quality of his posts atm
What do you consider «quality» in his posts?
Like not just random fluff or throwing things out there. Seems to be doing alot of attempted gamesolving for D1. Which unless he has a history of being suptown mafia isn't something I'd think most mafia members would do so early. So i guess it's less what he's saying/posting, but more that he's gamesolving and posting alot.
I love when someone I scum read posts a read on someone I also suspect because, I don't see a wolf who sees the position wolf!Gavial is in and tries to defend him. Why risk it? To dirty him more in case Gavial is still alive when Sig flips? Is it worth associating him/heself with Gavial if Sig was scum?

I think Sig is town if Gavial is scum.

If Gavial is scum, Sig is town. Agreed.
If Sig is scum, Gavial is town (because Sig’s post here would be tmi, and similar to your reasoning - Sig wouldn’t talk about a buddy like this.

So basically a difference check here.
Unless they are both town, which is possible.

sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:09 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:04 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:03 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:56 pm Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.
Is gavial usually high content mafia member?

Since I'm liking the level of though and quality of his posts atm
What do you consider «quality» in his posts?
Like not just random fluff or throwing things out there. Seems to be doing alot of attempted gamesolving for D1. Which unless he has a history of being suptown mafia isn't something I'd think most mafia members would do so early. So i guess it's less what he's saying/posting, but more that he's gamesolving and posting alot.

Imo, he’s literally just throwing stuff out there, mostly without reasoning, which is unfortunately what he does as town as well. Do you like anything specific about his solving or his reasoning?

I’ve never seen anyone say what you’re saying here about Gavial. Unfortunate, but it’s true. As far as I’ve seen and experienced myself, his solving hasn’t yielded good results.

Un-ironically the most suss thing I heard all game

sig wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:03 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:56 pm Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.
Is gavial usually high content mafia member?

Since I'm liking the level of though and quality of his posts atm

What do you consider «quality» in his posts?

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:55 pm Literally any other vote is NAI but if Marmot pushes a very specific person they are scum.

You pushed me last time you were scum. Also without a reason, like most of your reads at all times.

Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.

[VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

Guillo is more firm town to me now, specifically for caring about being right about LP. The way he wanted to prove himself and get cred for his process if he’s right.

This also speaks well for Sean imo, who quickly offered Guillo a hand already D0. So I like that.

I think we are being wilginated.

Oh, and I don't really have thoughts on Sig either way.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:00 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:50 am Can't wait to rand mafia only to go into start of D1 and blatantly lie about someone's meta and hope someone latches onto it and then do an evil laugh. Sounds fun tbh.
Ive done it. It’s fun to blatantly lie about anyone in people’s faces and get townread for it is what makes this game hilarious.

See, that is where you differ from a lot of people. I know you would. But most wouldn't.

There's also a difference in how people are treating other players in the game, for example as "guilty until proven otherwise" or "innocent until proved otherwise" and everything in between, around and on the side.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:58 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:47 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:42 amLP said he had doubts on me because ive been all over he place and looked like i was looking to latch onto any bandwagon. That description fits scummy behavior, he didnt directly call me scummy for scum hunting but he paraphrased it.

Why are you not catching this? How many times have you read it?
1.5 times.
You know what, I'm all for you pressuring on LP. Go for it. I just got caught up in your general reasoning, which is super faulty imo.
I caught a wolf in his second post in another game for the same faulty reasoning. So if you are town and i turn to be right, i’d suggest you to check on that.

What do you think of @sig ?

I think Gavial could be the designated mischop by scum and we are playing into scum’s hands by making him the lead wagon, even though i have my suspicions on Gavial, it cant be this easy to catch scum.

Sure, I will.

I do think a similar reasoning can be used for sure.
"Lacking paranoia" or "lacking curiosity" perhaps, is a better reasoning.

I probably just got too detail oriented.

I just played a game where we as town caught and chopped all four scum consecutively. I didn't play D1, but came in D2 with all three remaining mafia and nobody else in my PoE. It can be that easy. (To be fair, mafia didn't really do to hot that game). That game was filled with players who play a trust based/consensus based game though, which this game is not necessarily.

If @Gavial is town, I really hope he continues to give his takes and views on what's happening. I'm not at all married to Gavial as the chop today myself. Game has just begun.

Can't wait to rand mafia only to go into start of D1 and blatantly lie about someone's meta and hope someone latches onto it and then do an evil laugh. Sounds fun tbh.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:42 amLP said he had doubts on me because ive been all over he place and looked like i was looking to latch onto any bandwagon. That description fits scummy behavior, he didnt directly call me scummy for scum hunting but he paraphrased it.

Why are you not catching this? How many times have you read it?

1.5 times.
You know what, I'm all for you pressuring on LP. Go for it. I just got caught up in your general reasoning, which is super faulty imo.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:25 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:12 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:02 amWhat? You shitting me right?

So if i wolf read you without having meta of you but you townread someone based on meta and i go ahead and take that read to factor in as a townread of my own on that same player, it wouldnt be suspicious for you?

Come on now! You are better than this, in fact i expect you to be better than this and i will judge with higher standards than everyone else.
Your example is not at all what happened.
And to use the example you have here - It would depend on the situation. If you scum read me and see that I use meta to town read someone, you could assume that I was spewing them town and so you also town read them. I also wouldn't generally expect most anyone to blatantly lie about meta when several others also know the player in question. I don't know why this is a thing for you.

In any case, what you mentioned here isn't what happened. I'm just saying that it's pretty normal to see someone else mention something that can confirm your view of the game, without actually knowing or having a firm opinion of this person's alignment. I do that all the time. Especially if it's meta related. Cause meta is independent of alignment. Falcon has the same meta, whether or not you randed town or mafia here.

This isn't even terribly important. You're allowed to think that this makes LP sure mafia, and I'm letting you know that I absolutely don't think it does and I think it's NAI for LP.
Stop there Dyslexicon. What? Why wouldnt you lie about people’s meta as scum if the perception of a player’s neta can be different from player to player.

I can say that you bus your teammates as scum even though you never do and even if others know that you never do because guess what? I may have seen you bussing someone in a game where they didnt play.

LPs read on Falcon taking my read on on him at face value when he casted suspicion on me in the very same post is TMI and i will die on that hill, amigo.

You can, most people just don't.
In fact, "meta" isn't usually something that is terribly different from player to player.
And you don't just gauge meta from what one person is saying. Like, if you're scum and lying about Falcon's meta because "haha I'm going to lie about Falcon's meta on D1 even though nobody asked about it, but I'm mafia so nefarious reasons lying hahaha", that is not end all be all to what Falcon's meta is. If people perceive what you say about Falcon to be incorrect, they will correct it. In this specific case, it seemed like LP thought what you had to say matched what he already knew of Falcon. So I don't see the problem with just that.

If I have issues with LP, it's that I don't love their apparent confident stance on Falcon or you, especially paired with a tone that is rather flat. I don't know them though. But I'd expect from you for example to be cock sure of some reads as town, but I wouldn't necessarily expect someone like LP to be (and "someone like LP" is just based on what little I can infer based on how they're playing right now).

To be clear, I don't really have a strong opinion on LP tbh. And discussing what seems to be just different ways of thinking about the game with Guillo is probably not productive but oops.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:18 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:52 am Guillo vs LP:

As far as I can understand, Guillo takes issue with LP using his comment about Falcon's meta to build suspicion on Falcon. According to Guillo, LP should not do this when LP null reads Guillo.

I understand the argument logically, but I think it's faulty.
LP agreed that he did use Guillo's statement, along with their own view of Falcon's meta. So Guillo's statement just built up around what LP was already thinking.
And taking a comment about meta on face value is totally normal, regardless of having a read on the person who's saying it or not.
It's not like mafia goes around randomly lying about people's meta on D1 for shits and giggles.
It's ridiculous to hold everyone to an expectations that they should distrust literally everything anyone says unless you town read them, and if you're not doing that, you have TMI.
And some of us doesn't go looking for things to distrust.
Some people are paranoid like that, which I think Guillo is (and for example Sean to a lesser degree), but I think most players aren't.

Regardless of LP's alignment, I think Guillo's point is faulty, so it doesn't convince me at all.

As for Guillo, I'm holding off a bit on having a read. I don't think he's out of town range, but I also don't remember well the differences among his town or scum game. I'm not agreeing much with the direction he has now, but that's also NAI.

LP is lean town for me. They are town if Gavial is mafia. I think they've talked mech from a town perspective (like if we are going to claim, we should do it later when info roles have some actual info), and looked at solutions to have the setup give town benefit. All their solving posts seems fine to me. I've never played with them, so I'd be interested if anyone has meta/opinions.
This is a load of crap my friend im sorry. You cannot tell me with a straight face that you’d believe the meta read of someone you have doubts on. Go back! LP was wishy washy about his read on me, calling me scummy from being all over the place when being all over the place pushing people is the towniest thing a townie can do, only scum would feel uncomfortable and actually threatened by a player looking for answers all over the place and then he says that it just may be my playstyle but in a way that felt like a discredit and less like a compliment.

And then after such treatment, he grabs my meta read onnfalcon, agrees with me and then says that Falcon is most likely to flip as scum? How did i earn such amount of trust from him in just one paragraph hmm?

No my friend.

This is exactly what I'm saying.
It's situational, of course, but there's no reason someone would just lie about a meta take for no reason, regardless of their alignment.
Now, I could read into why someone is bringing meta in at all, but that's another matter entirely.

I went back, and I don't believe LP called you scummy.
He also said that he didn't base his read on your piece of meta, but that the piece of meta supported what he already thought.

This may also be similar to your issue with Lime right now.
You can actually listen and take into account what other players are saying without being sure of their alignment. It's a way of cooperation.
It's also fine if you want to question these instances. But it's not even close a smoking gun, is my opinion.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:02 amWhat? You shitting me right?

So if i wolf read you without having meta of you but you townread someone based on meta and i go ahead and take that read to factor in as a townread of my own on that same player, it wouldnt be suspicious for you?

Come on now! You are better than this, in fact i expect you to be better than this and i will judge with higher standards than everyone else.

Your example is not at all what happened.
And to use the example you have here - It would depend on the situation. If you scum read me and see that I use meta to town read someone, you could assume that I was spewing them town and so you also town read them. I also wouldn't generally expect most anyone to blatantly lie about meta when several others also know the player in question. I don't know why this is a thing for you.

In any case, what you mentioned here isn't what happened. I'm just saying that it's pretty normal to see someone else mention something that can confirm your view of the game, without actually knowing or having a firm opinion of this person's alignment. I do that all the time. Especially if it's meta related. Cause meta is independent of alignment. Falcon has the same meta, whether or not you randed town or mafia here.

This isn't even terribly important. You're allowed to think that this makes LP sure mafia, and I'm letting you know that I absolutely don't think it does and I think it's NAI for LP.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:57 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:40 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:33 am When is eod? I'll make sure to be present.
It says on the top of the poll.
You have my vote, it's in the poll

Ok.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:33 am When is eod? I'll make sure to be present.

It says on the top of the poll.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:10 pm [VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

I feel that they're not w/w with LC tho since they asked if something helped them

Hey, Martin. Why are you voting Marmot?

Oh. And @Marmot Very eager to hear your report.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:08 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:39 am
Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:57 pm Not sure why LP be recently been called at as wolf randomly.
Last game they were town and I hard defended them.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:58 pm I don’t find their Playstyle wolfy at all but apparently others do?
This just looks like Gavial is TMI-ing LP town.
He's not digging into why or who sussed out LP.
Or what his own read of LP is, if any.

I think @MartinGG99 town read one of this posts, but it was this that I scum read.

As well as his reads just seems even faker than usual.
I know he pulls out reads of thin air, but he just seems to have an opinion ready on everything, while at the same time, this opinion is based on nothing.
Unfortunately Gave did this exact same thing last game and we were both Town.
And honestly I don't think he'd behave different as Mafia since he would probably be aware that I might catch onto that.
Although there is the difference where last game I had a legitimate wagon of like 3 or 4 at the time and here he started with it just because one person said my opening post joking about the moba community was scummy.
I frankly don't really see it as AI, but I also haven't seen his Mafia play style so...meh.
I think it comes more from the fact he's seen me play other games and just knows my play style more than most people on this site, but I still don't really know if he's seen me actually play as Mafia to even determine the minute differences between how I play any given role and don't get why he defends and town reads me each game.

I've played with him before as well, and I'm aware of his play style.
Thanks for this background though.
You are right in that you weren't actually "under attack" when Gavial started defending you here. Only Sean had mentioned suspicion on you. And also, there was almost no content.
I know Gavial kind of makes up reads as both alignments, but it just struck me as particularly fake.
We'll see though.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:59 am I, too, have been fooled a few times by mafia jack. I feel like I can never read him. I'm not sure I've ever seen mafia falcon or just don't remember so not sure if there is a difference, but I didn't see anything outright scummy with him so far. Gavial I think is also a bit harder to read. I saw that people kind of jumped on voting him pretty quick into the day.

Do you have any takes or leans that you are more sure on or feel stronger about thus far?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:42 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:40 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:08 pm As far as setup outing wolves go it's more in the fact that their Mafia unique abilities really outs them.
For example we can really really easily find Spy, Medic, and Sniper scum since their Mafia abilities actively out themselves.
I haven't read the setup really.

Does anyone know if this means if the town versions of these roles can verify themselves? @TonyStarkPrime Mech!

If so, we should do that.
Yeah I saw the same thing as LP. It’s hard to set up I think. Maybe we can verify a sniper easily though

If we can do it, we should probably just do it. Would appreciate anyone who can figure out if something like that can be done.

Regarding Falcon, can you explain your read on him? My first instinct was town. If Gavial is mafia, I'm more suspicious though, as I think their interaction is particularly bad.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:21 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:56 am I'm excited to have @MacDougall @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME and @Jackofhearts2005 to contribute more. I need bounce plz.
Its nice to be wanted

You are wanted <3

I'm excited to have @MacDougall @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME and @Jackofhearts2005 to contribute more. I need bounce plz.

As for Tony, I just like his detached focus on mech specifically. It's weak as an argument, but the feeling is semi strong. I just think that's how town!TSP approaches this. (Also, I may have misread his first post, which is the thing I actually town read, but I want to town lean him anyway)
@Seanzie

All of my takes are early though, obviously.

Guillo vs LP:

As far as I can understand, Guillo takes issue with LP using his comment about Falcon's meta to build suspicion on Falcon. According to Guillo, LP should not do this when LP null reads Guillo.

I understand the argument logically, but I think it's faulty.
LP agreed that he did use Guillo's statement, along with their own view of Falcon's meta. So Guillo's statement just built up around what LP was already thinking.
And taking a comment about meta on face value is totally normal, regardless of having a read on the person who's saying it or not.
It's not like mafia goes around randomly lying about people's meta on D1 for shits and giggles.
It's ridiculous to hold everyone to an expectations that they should distrust literally everything anyone says unless you town read them, and if you're not doing that, you have TMI.
And some of us doesn't go looking for things to distrust.
Some people are paranoid like that, which I think Guillo is (and for example Sean to a lesser degree), but I think most players aren't.

Regardless of LP's alignment, I think Guillo's point is faulty, so it doesn't convince me at all.

As for Guillo, I'm holding off a bit on having a read. I don't think he's out of town range, but I also don't remember well the differences among his town or scum game. I'm not agreeing much with the direction he has now, but that's also NAI.

LP is lean town for me. They are town if Gavial is mafia. I think they've talked mech from a town perspective (like if we are going to claim, we should do it later when info roles have some actual info), and looked at solutions to have the setup give town benefit. All their solving posts seems fine to me. I've never played with them, so I'd be interested if anyone has meta/opinions.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:08 pm As far as setup outing wolves go it's more in the fact that their Mafia unique abilities really outs them.
For example we can really really easily find Spy, Medic, and Sniper scum since their Mafia abilities actively out themselves.

I haven't read the setup really.

Does anyone know if this means if the town versions of these roles can verify themselves? @TonyStarkPrime Mech!

If so, we should do that.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:57 pm Not sure why LP be recently been called at as wolf randomly.
Last game they were town and I hard defended them.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:58 pm I don’t find their Playstyle wolfy at all but apparently others do?

This just looks like Gavial is TMI-ing LP town.
He's not digging into why or who sussed out LP.
Or what his own read of LP is, if any.

I think @MartinGG99 town read one of this posts, but it was this that I scum read.

As well as his reads just seems even faker than usual.
I know he pulls out reads of thin air, but he just seems to have an opinion ready on everything, while at the same time, this opinion is based on nothing.

I think Sean is town, because he seems to be actually thinking about the game, and he's having reactions to his own reactions to the game, which I think shows his reactions are genuine.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:47 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:33 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:22 pm So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.
why?
Linearpoint's first post is the sort of first post that I like to make as scum (I always find the first post the hardest, after getting the first post out of the way, it is much easier to continue. Sometimes I even specifically try to "first" specifically to get the first post out of the way), and while this is not scum-indicative necessarily, it is scum-compatible. Then as others have mentioned, sometimes scum likes to mech-talk to hide, and their posts in regards to my team-claim suggestion feel the most likely to be coming from scum trying to look helpful in a mech discussion.

As for Mac, he called me mafia, so he must be mafia.

This awareness of omgusing and making a joke out of it is an example. He's commenting on how he feels, while at the same time it is how he feels.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:10 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:12 pm Sig is hardcore obvious scum and im tunneling to their slow and painful death.
I don't know what parallel world I have entered, but I'm like 90% to locking Guillo town on D0 (this is hyperbole, but I do townread Guillo).

I agree on Sig. >rand!wolf for sure.

That't three in the team. Who is the last?

And this is similar. It's having a reaction to himself actually thinking Guillo is town and agreeing with him, which it seems he didn't expect. But at the same time, it is how he feels. As mafia, he would need to make up how he feels. But these reactions seems to show that how he feels is "in spite of" (in spite of not wanting to town read Guillo fully, in spite of not wanting to omgus).

^So that is me explaining a town read, which may or may not make sense to anyone.

But overall, I think Sean is town because he's jumping straight into the action. It just looks like he's really thinking about the game and wants to figure it out. Quite simply. And I've played enough with him that I think I know what that looks like.

@Lime Coke

Sean is well within town range. He’s done several things I associate with town!Sean. I haven’t played with mafia!Sean, but I’ve read a game where he was mafia. @Lime Coke

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:02 am Stop twisting shit around. You use my info of my experience with falcon to produce a read on him, taking my word at face value, of someone you dont know.

You die!

If they did that, there’s literally no problem with it.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:36 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:44 am
Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:48 am What are the chances Lime Coke is wolf with Jack?
I mean Jack hasn't posted yet so the only reason for this connection would be LC saying they've never seen Jack as Town which I mean I've not seen Jack as Town either but I don't see LC as using that to justify for or against a Jack lynch.
So like if you're wanting a serious answer it's roughly the probability any 2 specific people both roll Mafia. There's nothing really in LC's post about Jack that would confirm or deny a connection between them in any real way.
Personally I don't really like the arguments of "X is always Y" as a justification for or against anything as probability is a bitch and everything is in isolation with odds of being Mafia varying from game to game.
I can't think of the exact number, but I've had maybe 5 games with JackofHearts. They all have been him randing mafia against me being town.

The first game I'll say that I was 100% fooled, which was the game I linked earlier talking about catching Seanzie as mafia, and Jack hammered Seanzie Day 1 when I was the counterwagon which cleared him in my eyes.

The rest of the games Jack has been mafia and before it became a "streak" I was calling Jack out for specific reasons to be mafia, and then hesitated and pulled back and allowed him to live. Which he would end game every time and mafia wins because of it.

It's probably not a legitimate take or a read on Jack, it's more "I need to make up for not learning my lesson after fucking up a shit ton of times on the same mistake."

And the sad thing is he probably IS mafia this game and he's going to end game and win anyways despite me talking about all of this because the mafia gods fucking hate me.

Jack is me is Jack. Except he rands mafia more lol.

I’ve played a lot with him as town together.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:30 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:24 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:20 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:13 am A few other short reads.

Sig has an odd posting style, but I've seen it from Town Sig and nothing stands out as an obvious Mafia tell at the moment.
Dolby is weird. Their either a really ballsy Mafia suggesting a D0 Massclaim or Town since Mafia are going to want to shy away from blatantly saying something that would benefit the Mafia a lot more than Town.
Seanzie I don't know about. On the one hand they jumped pretty quickly on the massclaim idea, but their posts seem to indicate an actual through process was going on and they eventually realized it probably hurts Town more than it helps.
Wiggly is Spy or Pyro, maybe a Spyro. Part of me wants to give him a Town pass just because Mafia hardclaiming immediately is not something I really see them wanting to do especially if they are claiming a protective role like Pyro.
Guillotine feels weird, they are just all over the place and I can't tell if they are fishing to see what people will latch onto and bandwagon with or just a quirky person.
Falcon is oddly very active this game which they were pretty inactive when I've seen them and they were Town and based on what Guillotine said earlier about Falcon's scum game I'd say this is probably going to end up flipping Mafia.
LC and Mac I'm both going to put in the category of I don't want to see an early game lynch of them, they are high prio Mafia kill targets I feel so they'll die off or be revealed as Mafia eventually be it through checking them or living a long time.
Im scum hunting, so you best believe i will be all over the place looking for answers, is that a problem for you?

There is something i dont understand.

First you say that im weird so im guessing you have me as a null cause you can't decide on your read of me but then in your falcon read, you take what i say and conclude that Falcon is mafia. Why would you take the word of your null read as basis to scum read someone else?

Now, THAT IS WEIRD
I don't remember saying I was a normal person, did I?

To be honest its mostly since I've only seen Town Falcon and he was flaky and avoiding talking.
While it may be naive to trust you in saying Falcon is very aggressive as Mafia it would line up with my experience and his current behavior.
I currently null read you because I'm unsure how to really interrupt your whole on and off Sig vote and haven't played with you.
Nah, i think you know im town and accidentally TMIed me as such.

[VOTE: Linear Point] aubergine

Scum

Sig
Dyslexicon
LinearPoint
Gavial?

Guillo. Bebe. Please.

It’s totally fine to factor in something someone said (you saying Falcon is aggressive as mafia) even if you null read that person. That’s not tmi or a contradiction or whatever. People don’t go around and doubt every bit of meta knowledge etc just because they don’t know other people’s alignment. Especially meta knowledge, which is verifiable.

You keep latching onto totally random null reasons and calling it a reason to call someone scum. I can’t stop you, but that is what it looks like.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:33 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:04 am And dont get me wrong, if you die and flip town, i will consider your legacy reads but i think it is too soon to start issueing them out unless you believe those four or any of them have the power to get you chopped.
Ah just remember my legacy reads man.
This goes for everyone.

That’s all I ask.

Why would the reads you’re making up right at the start of D1 be worth following?
Do you have experience with that being the case before?
I think not.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:27 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:25 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:12 pm By tone and meta i think the following are town

Dolby
Gavial
Falcon

Mixed feelings on Seanzie

Scum

Sig
Dyslexicon
Can you give some details on the tone/meta reads you have on Dolbr, Gav & myself?

Are your scum reads also tone/meta based?
Dolby slanks really bad as town, he is almost inexistent in every game ge plays as town and when he posts, he submits short posts.
When he is scum, he posts walls! That is almost his scum tell, he just tries to appear townie doing busywork.

Gavial as scum acts like he is being forced to play and tries to hide behind gimmicks to avoid engaging with town. Here he is engaging and feels natural.

Falcon is very aggro as scum, ive hosted a game where you played and you were town and difference is noticeable. It’s just two games but I like Falcon here so far.

And no, dyslexicon nor sig are meta reads, they are just scummy.

Dyslexicon is playing like he is in anti-spew mode and if he randed wolf that is the best thing they can do because dizzy always gets a check on night 1, in fact, i hsvent read all the roles that exists but if there are any investigates in this game, do us all a favor and check Dyslexicon because if there is a player that is capanle of snowing us all, it’s dizzy. Don’t understimate them!

Calm down, Brenda.
I don’t think I’ve ever been checked N1 tbh.
I also have never played in anti-spew and am not.

I disagree firmly with your Gavial read.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:20 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:34 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:07 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:48 pm Sean and Falcon, you should start a town core. You’re both town. I’m rooting for you!
The fuck is this? Why do you post like you shouldnt be in the towncore of those you townread?
I’m not planning to be very active at the start of this.

Thread is quiet and I want the game to have a good start though.

Also, think I’ll exchange my Falcon for Guillo right now.

Sean is town. I know him, this be town.
Tony is town cause I can tell.
Guillo is probably town and Sean thinks so too so that’s good. Work together \o/
Lime is town because he’s cute and also real reasons.

^I think this is a nice town core to start with.
(Dis)agreements?
I could be mistaken, but I don't think you've ever actually seen me as scum, so you're going to have to do more than "I know him" to justify your read on me.

Tell me about Tony. I don't see town!Tony right now. I don't necessarily see scum!Tony either, but I don't see town!Tony. If you do, please elaborate.

No, I don’t.
I’ll elaborate on all reads later tbh.

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