Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:34 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:04 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:28 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:18 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:52 am
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:13 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:49 pm
I think it's clear that IAWY never intended to keep their vote there.
I understand why I'm a wagon atm, but you straight-up don't know what you're talking about Sean. Several players still alive can vouch that this is my playstyle, this is what I regularly do.
Nobody cared about Vivax being a wagon until Vivax wasn't a wagon anymore, just like nobody cared about Jack being top wagon the moment things consolidated onto him -
from Vivax, I might add, which I already had pointed out. The threadstate painted a very clear picture of what was going on - or so I thought - and I moved because what it was telling me was that Vivax was not a hit there. I was wrong, I look scummy for it, and that sucks a whole lot for me, boo hoo oh well, but I am sick and tired of people constantly misconstruing the way I play to push me on it and then say that 'it's clear' that I have an agenda for doing what I always do in mafia games
That is my SoD rant for the night, I am going to bed and I will be here tomorrow
What interpretation do you give this now that you see Vivax's flip?
My issue is that you strongly ignored the fact that I've been pushing against Falcon all day and was actively campaigning for a vivax vote when with only 8 minutes left in the thread, you voted Falcon, and then interpreted people voting whom hadn't been around for the last hour as evidence that Falcon was bad... rather than... you know... people who hadn't been around for the last hour moving onto the wagon they most believed in.
I believe that you as town will do things like this to get a sense of what is going on, but I don't feel like it was actually done with good faith.
------------------------------------------
Can you tell me what your read on me was prior to the flip EoD yesterday? Also tell me your read on Jack for most of yesterday plz.
It's the timing of it that spooked me, you had like 10-15 minutes where Vivax/Joe were tied and nothing was happening. Nobody bats an eye that Vivax ties in the vote, nobody says anything about it and it just sits there and those active talk around it. But immediately as soon as I voted Falcon, there were people saying "no that's a bad vote" and then what looked to me like retaliatory votes for Vivax. But the explanation doesn't matter because of the results in your mind, you've come to the conclusion that something that is incredibly NAI for me (and again, ask Nutella, Hally or Nanook) is actively scummy, and now everything I do is scummy. Do you not realize that the orange is
also a very bad faith argument to make? Or do you just not care because you've got an easy mischop?
I don't think it is in bad faith to consider that someone could have done something in their town range, but with a scum agenda. I do love an easy mischop.
You didn't answer any of my three questions, which all are asked in good faith to help me figure out if my suspicion on you is warranted. please address them.
I was too focused on seeing red from your post and my brain mistook the last two as part of a signature, the first one doesn't matter because my interpretation was wrong then so what do you care for what you're inevitably going to see as a scummy take that means nothing good?
To the first one, either the rest of the mafia team besides Vivax wasn't active ITT at EoD (which would be hard to believe) to react to Vivax being tied, or possibly the team had scout results on multiple players on Vivax's wagon being NPC so they didn't care that Vivax was tied because they knew (or otherwise just strongly believed) that he wasn't going to go over because the votecount wasn't actually condemnatory for him. The vote didn't tie though, despite being a 5-4-4, so either nobody on any of the wagons was an NPC (which is obviously false), or each wagon had at least one NPC on them. If Vivax had two NPCs, then Jack and Falcon also had to have 2 NPCs, etc. etc.
I think/thought very strongly that you were town because we were coming to a similar conclusion on Santy and were the most-aligned in pushing that read. It was wrong, but I know I'm town so that doesn't hypocritically make me suddenly read you scummier than me for the same read-fail. I think you're confbiasing yourself now and so convinced of a tunnel that anything I say is going to go over your head and out the window, which is incredibly frustrating as a perception regardless of if it's the reality, and I also cannot say that it hasn't affected how townie I think you are, but I still do not think you are mafia because I was expecting to get pushed for EoD. I just didn't expect it to be you, that took me by surprise
I didn't have a read on Jack initially but started townreading him around the time of the Falcon case for how he was approaching the read. I thought Jack was town and stated that multiple times ITT - specifically when conversing with Nutella, me and Nutella both saw the same problem, we disagreed with who the culprit of said problem was, and I stated more than once that I was townreading Jack in contrast with Nutella who was scumreading him as the problematic one. The initial Jack-Vivax-Falcon kerfuffle shuffle that was happening also increased my confidence in Jack being town when the votes went through Falcon and Vivax and wouldn't stick - but then landed on Jack and just completely stopped moving. As I just explained in my last post, the apathy is in general an extremely good indicator threadstate-wise of someone being a town mischop, and the fact that nobody care about Jack being a wagon all throughout the rest of the day, even as the CW shifted around and eventually overtook Jack as a wagon
I am very convinced that Jack is town, the
only thing that would cause me to give any pause is that with Vivax being Mafia PR (and the infinitely-more-important PR of the two), there should've been an effort to push Jack over Vivax at the end to save Vivax since they were otherwise tied. But that again circles back to either VIvax's team wasn't active or they were overconfident in Vivax's wagon having more NPCs than in reality and didn't feel the need to pushback (and that obviously worked out well for them)
Falcon only had two votes at EoD, so it not tying says little about Falcon voters. EOD VC for reference:
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:02 pm
Day 5 Vote Count
SoD:
#5825 EoD:
#0
vivax (5):
santygrass (99),
DrWilgy (50),
Seanzie (119),
Michelle (40),
Lumi (44)
jackofhearts2005 (4):
pyxxy (28),
nutella (135),
DeeZees (12),
Vivax (32)
nutella (2):
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5),
ilario (14)
falcon45ca (2):
Jackofhearts2005 (53),
Inawordyes (92)
unvote (1):
Hally (24)
manny (1):
Manny (37)
pyxxy (1):
Neon (61)
sprityo (1):
Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1):
falcon45ca (55)
Not Voting (5): MacDougall (4), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23), Schiavetto (5)
I don't think things were stagnant when Jack was the lead wagon. You said yourself votes were in flux. Here are four VCs each spaced 20 minutes apart leading up to EoD.
nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:40 pm
Day 5 Vote Count
SoD:
#5825 EoD:
#0
Not Voting (5): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), DeeZees (11), Porscha (23)
deezees (4):
Seanzie (105),
Vivax (22),
DrWilgy (29),
nutella (94)
falcon45ca (2):
Hally (18),
Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2):
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5),
ilario (14)
manny (1):
Manny (35)
pyxxy (1):
Neon (61)
vivax (1):
santygrass (79)
jackofhearts2005 (1):
pyxxy (23)
ilario (1):
Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1):
Lumi (30)
sprityo (1):
Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1):
falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1):
Inawordyes (77)
nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:58 pm
Day 5 Vote Count
SoD:
#5825 EoD:
#0
Not Voting (5): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), DeeZees (11), Porscha (23)
vivax (4):
santygrass (83),
nutella (108),
Seanzie (106),
DrWilgy (38)
falcon45ca (2):
Hally (18),
Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2):
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5),
ilario (14)
manny (1):
Manny (35)
pyxxy (1):
Neon (61)
jackofhearts2005 (1):
pyxxy (23)
ilario (1):
Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1):
Lumi (30)
deezees (1):
Vivax (25)
sprityo (1):
Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1):
falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1):
Inawordyes (77)
nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:23 pm
Day 5 Vote Count
SoD:
#5825 EoD:
#0
Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4):
pyxxy (23),
nutella (127),
Seanzie (110),
DeeZees (12)
falcon45ca (2):
Hally (18),
Jackofhearts2005 (53)
pyxxy (2):
Neon (61),
DrWilgy (48)
nutella (2):
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5),
ilario (14)
manny (1):
Manny (37)
vivax (1):
santygrass (90)
ilario (1):
Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1):
Lumi (30)
deezees (1):
Vivax (26)
sprityo (1):
Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1):
falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1):
Inawordyes (77)
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:39 pm
Day 5 Vote Count
SoD:
#5825 EoD:
#0
Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4):
pyxxy (23),
nutella (129),
DeeZees (12),
Vivax (29)
vivax (3):
santygrass (94),
DrWilgy (50),
Seanzie (112)
falcon45ca (2):
Hally (18),
Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2):
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5),
ilario (14)
manny (1):
Manny (37)
pyxxy (1):
Neon (61)
ilario (1):
Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1):
Lumi (30)
sprityo (1):
Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1):
falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1):
Inawordyes (79)
People who weren't around:
falcon45ca
Hally
iaafr
ilario
Manny
Nanook
Neon
Porscha
Pyxxy
Ricochet
Shiavetta
sprityo
Jack voters:
Pyxxy
Nutella
Deezees
Out of these two lists, who do you think are most likely Vivax's teammates? Any leads?
I think there's a decent chance that at least one of Neon/Illario is mafia, as I commented on earlier, with the way that Vivax at multiple times commented on how wagons that they were on were "tentatively pure" and "pure mostly". Neon was CW to Lily who flipped town, but the next day basically all the sus Neon got dissipated as far as actually pushing them as a wagon for being scummy. Which is either a combo of NPC pushing Neon and dying + NPCs pushing elsewhere because they don't need to truly care what's going on, or W!Neon and her teammates redirecting the vote elsewhere. With Illario, I don't have much because Illario is a huge question mark in general, but Vivax pointing out Neon and avoiding Illario during those multiple times is kinda pinging me as notable here for the absence, and Illario's "I'm a player everybody" post earlier as well as their really lackluster sheep vote on my wagon doesn't look so hot to me in the light of a potential W!Illario world. But I have literally nothing on Illario otherwise as far as their actual content
I do think there is still a possibility that Falcon is mafia. The threadstate caring about falcon being a wagon and Vivax being a wagon but not Jack being a wagon point to either mafia having scouted Falcon/Jack and knowing that they're NPC/a player (respectively), or Falcon is also mafia and the reason for the top wagon being a hot potato situation until Jack overtook them both and then suddenly it stopped moving around. Vivax also put his focus into targeting Jack over Falcon despite both of them being options in a 3-way voting war for most of the latter half of yesterday. For I guess what should be fairly obvious reasons I am not about to go heavy into pushing Falcon again today in the light of a Mafia flip given that he still was a CW to that wagon, but I am not completely sold and I don't want there to be yet another day where someone is heavily suspected, becomes a top wagon for most of the day, doesn't die at EoD, and then completely loses any and all sus and the motivation to keep pushing a wagon on them the next day. That would make the third one in a row, and with Neon's status in question RE: the above, I think that it's a very dangerous position to completely fall away from sus on people who were CWs when they didn't do anything fundamentally to change the scumreads on them, they just didn't get chopped
That points me squarely into Wilgy/Neon/Falcon, and Wilgy is someone that I need to look into more because initially I was thinking that Vivax spewed him town in his ISO like I believe he did with DeeZees, but then towards the end there were some inconsistencies in his position towards him that I saw and was like "wait what? hmm". It would be really funny (and funny I mean terrible and tragic) if all three of them are the remaining team and we almost had a wolf chop every single day, but I highly doubt all three of them are mafia here
I still am fairly confident that Schia is lockwolf, but Schia's also barely even playing and it's almost-comical how little involvement they have. At the same time, they're basically frozen and literally only posting to meet the postmin, and nobody is seriously calling them out on it in favor of delaying until post-purge to insta-chop if they're still alive. If you think they're mafia and you don't vote them out, then you're just giving the mafia team more power, as Schia may be doing the least here, but we have no ability to know if W!Schia is doing the most in scumchat, which makes them being alive, if scum, a huge liability for us even if they're not directly projecting power and their influence into the thread
