Secret Playerlist - ENDGAME

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I am once again asking you to [VOTE: nutella] aubergine

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I'm aware I'm in a tunnel but im also aware I'm correct so neener neener

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Neon is based, good job neon

[Seanzie]

I am once again asking you to [VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Okay boomer.

[Lumi]

Day 6 Vote Count
SoD: #6768 EoD: #0

inawordyes (7): Lumi (7), DeeZees (30), nutella (27), pyxxy (11), ilario (8), Seanzie (21), Michelle (5)
Not Voting (6): MacDougall (6), DrWilgy (2), Ricochet (4), Hally (1), Inawordyes (3), Porscha (3)
nutella (2): Neon (7), NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (3)
manny (1): Manny (6)

[Lumi]

If the person we chop today is an NPC or the person the wolves night kill tonight is an NPC - then we should turbo schia tomorrow.

We'll be on the wrong parity and will need to sleep anyway, so we might as well make the sleep have some wolf equity in it.

If either both the chop + NK are NPCs or neither, then don't turbo Schia, just keep playing normally and wait for the purge

[Lumi]

If the person we chop today is an NPC or the person the wolves night kill tonight is an NPC - then we should turbo schia tomorrow.

We'll be on the wrong parity and will need to sleep anyway, so we might as well make the sleep have some wolf equity in it.

If either both the chop + NK are NPCs or neither, then don't turbo Schia, just keep playing normally and wait for the purge

@DeeZees
@nutella
@Seanzie
@Michelle
@ilario

[nutella]

I'm aware I'm in a tunnel but im also aware I'm correct so neener neener

you arent buddy lol

[Inawordyes]

it seems like iawy's vivax vote that tied vivax with jack was a risk but a calculated one that worked out for his agenda if he's a wolf and wanted to make the argument he made

I think it's clear that IAWY never intended to keep their vote there.

I understand why I'm a wagon atm, but you straight-up don't know what you're talking about Sean. Several players still alive can vouch that this is my playstyle, this is what I regularly do. Nobody cared about Vivax being a wagon until Vivax wasn't a wagon anymore, just like nobody cared about Jack being top wagon the moment things consolidated onto him - from Vivax, I might add, which I already had pointed out. The threadstate painted a very clear picture of what was going on - or so I thought - and I moved because what it was telling me was that Vivax was not a hit there. I was wrong, I look scummy for it, and that sucks a whole lot for me, boo hoo oh well, but I am sick and tired of people constantly misconstruing the way I play to push me on it and then say that 'it's clear' that I have an agenda for doing what I always do in mafia games

That is my SoD rant for the night, I am going to bed and I will be here tomorrow

What interpretation do you give this now that you see Vivax's flip?

My issue is that you strongly ignored the fact that I've been pushing against Falcon all day and was actively campaigning for a vivax vote when with only 8 minutes left in the thread, you voted Falcon, and then interpreted people voting whom hadn't been around for the last hour as evidence that Falcon was bad... rather than... you know... people who hadn't been around for the last hour moving onto the wagon they most believed in.

I believe that you as town will do things like this to get a sense of what is going on, but I don't feel like it was actually done with good faith.

------------------------------------------

Can you tell me what your read on me was prior to the flip EoD yesterday? Also tell me your read on Jack for most of yesterday plz.

It's the timing of it that spooked me, you had like 10-15 minutes where Vivax/Joe were tied and nothing was happening. Nobody bats an eye that Vivax ties in the vote, nobody says anything about it and it just sits there and those active talk around it. But immediately as soon as I voted Falcon, there were people saying "no that's a bad vote" and then what looked to me like retaliatory votes for Vivax. But the explanation doesn't matter because of the results in your mind, you've come to the conclusion that something that is incredibly NAI for me (and again, ask Nutella, Hally or Nanook) is actively scummy, and now everything I do is scummy. Do you not realize that the orange is also a very bad faith argument to make? Or do you just not care because you've got an easy mischop?

[Seanzie]

it seems like iawy's vivax vote that tied vivax with jack was a risk but a calculated one that worked out for his agenda if he's a wolf and wanted to make the argument he made

I think it's clear that IAWY never intended to keep their vote there.

I understand why I'm a wagon atm, but you straight-up don't know what you're talking about Sean. Several players still alive can vouch that this is my playstyle, this is what I regularly do. Nobody cared about Vivax being a wagon until Vivax wasn't a wagon anymore, just like nobody cared about Jack being top wagon the moment things consolidated onto him - from Vivax, I might add, which I already had pointed out. The threadstate painted a very clear picture of what was going on - or so I thought - and I moved because what it was telling me was that Vivax was not a hit there. I was wrong, I look scummy for it, and that sucks a whole lot for me, boo hoo oh well, but I am sick and tired of people constantly misconstruing the way I play to push me on it and then say that 'it's clear' that I have an agenda for doing what I always do in mafia games

That is my SoD rant for the night, I am going to bed and I will be here tomorrow

What interpretation do you give this now that you see Vivax's flip?

My issue is that you strongly ignored the fact that I've been pushing against Falcon all day and was actively campaigning for a vivax vote when with only 8 minutes left in the thread, you voted Falcon, and then interpreted people voting whom hadn't been around for the last hour as evidence that Falcon was bad... rather than... you know... people who hadn't been around for the last hour moving onto the wagon they most believed in.

I believe that you as town will do things like this to get a sense of what is going on, but I don't feel like it was actually done with good faith.

------------------------------------------

Can you tell me what your read on me was prior to the flip EoD yesterday? Also tell me your read on Jack for most of yesterday plz.

It's the timing of it that spooked me, you had like 10-15 minutes where Vivax/Joe were tied and nothing was happening. Nobody bats an eye that Vivax ties in the vote, nobody says anything about it and it just sits there and those active talk around it. But immediately as soon as I voted Falcon, there were people saying "no that's a bad vote" and then what looked to me like retaliatory votes for Vivax. But the explanation doesn't matter because of the results in your mind, you've come to the conclusion that something that is incredibly NAI for me (and again, ask Nutella, Hally or Nanook) is actively scummy, and now everything I do is scummy. Do you not realize that the orange is also a very bad faith argument to make? Or do you just not care because you've got an easy mischop?

I don't think it is in bad faith to consider that someone could have done something in their town range, but with a scum agenda. I do love an easy mischop.

You didn't answer any of my three questions, which all are asked in good faith to help me figure out if my suspicion on you is warranted. please address them.

[Ricochet]

I will never give this up. Not to your kind.

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

[Inawordyes]

Neon probs player, tentatively town on a quick skim. Porscha maybe NPC but likely town if PC.
Ranmilia wagon looks pure mostly.

Quite possibly a bunch of scum among nonvoters but phoneplaying so it‘ll be a slow chore to look further and it‘s killing my motivation (or WIM as you fancily call it)

[VOTE: ilario] aubergine

@ilario the time to start solving is now tbh

Bad vote tbh.
Has IC vibes all over and I mentioned I had scout read on him (or DZ perhaps)
Explains the Ender wagon of yesterday sufficiently.

I‘d tentatively townpile the lot who wagoned Ender.
Neon was more roundabout about it would have to do a fresh ISO first.

Spoiler: show

Day 3 Vote Count
SoD: #3945 EoD: #4974

Not Voting (12): MacDougall (7), katze (61), Lumi (44), c4e5g3d5 (3), Lilypetal (27), Inawordyes (5), Guillotine (2), Marmot (5), falcon45ca (7), JaggedJimmyJay (5), sprityo (5), Schiavetto (5)
drwilgy (5): SilverKeith (9), nutella (81), Ranmilia (76), Vivax (48), ilario (16)
ranmilia (3): iaafr (55), Porscha (41), Neon (30)
vivax (3): DeeZees (30), Michelle (55), santygrass (114)
neon (2): Seanzie (5), Hally (56)
rondo (2): Dyslexicon (9), Jackofhearts2005 (15)
creature (1): EnderWiggin (34)
nutella (1): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (20)
scotty (1): Sloonei (8)
ran (1): DrWilgy (21)
dyslexicon (1): RondoDimBuckle (56)
nanookthegreatandmightywizardfirstofhisnameandfatherofdragons (1): Scotty (21)
katze (1): G-Man (8)
manny (1): Manny (22)
santygrass (1): pyxxy (16)
sloonei (1): Ricochet (8)

Lol my bad. Work stuff.

```
Day 4 Vote Count
SoD: #5097 EoD: #0

Not Voting (6): MacDougall (13), Lumi (32), SilverKeith (12), Porscha (40), iaafr (1), Schiavetto (5)
lilypetal (5): santygrass (82), nutella (38), Michelle (41), DeeZees (26), Hally (57)
neon (4): Seanzie (5), falcon45ca (9), Lilypetal (56), EnderWiggin (36)
enderwiggin (3): Neon (50), ilario (6), Vivax (57)
falcon (2): Jackofhearts2005 (23), DrWilgy (37)
manny (1): Manny (39)
nutella (1): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (12)
unvote (1): Inawordyes (18)
schiavetto (1): pyxxy (19)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (6)
ricochet (1): sprityo (5)
```

Alright, so I read through Vivax's ISO, and assuming I got the votecount on D3 correctly, these are the votes that Vivax referred to in the quoted posts. I point this out because twice he made mention of the people on those wagons being pure "tentatively/mostly", and both wagons contain Neon and Illario. Both times he specifically feels the need to mention Neon, but he never mentions Illario

DeeZees I think was spewed town by Vivax's ISO with the push he made

I stick to my original read that Jack was spewed town yesterday by the apathy that came after the wagons initially consolidated onto him, which never went away all the way to EoD, as it has zero relation to the Vivax-Falcon shenanigan stuff that happened at EoD but does have every relation with the threadstate getting agitated and shifting around when Vivax was briefly top wagon and stopping as soon as Jack overtook him. If Jack/Vivax was W/W, the threadstate would've continued to agitate until it shifted to Falcon or a fourth option and then become apathetic, either the first time or at EoD when the tie happened

[Inawordyes]

it seems like iawy's vivax vote that tied vivax with jack was a risk but a calculated one that worked out for his agenda if he's a wolf and wanted to make the argument he made

I think it's clear that IAWY never intended to keep their vote there.

I understand why I'm a wagon atm, but you straight-up don't know what you're talking about Sean. Several players still alive can vouch that this is my playstyle, this is what I regularly do. Nobody cared about Vivax being a wagon until Vivax wasn't a wagon anymore, just like nobody cared about Jack being top wagon the moment things consolidated onto him - from Vivax, I might add, which I already had pointed out. The threadstate painted a very clear picture of what was going on - or so I thought - and I moved because what it was telling me was that Vivax was not a hit there. I was wrong, I look scummy for it, and that sucks a whole lot for me, boo hoo oh well, but I am sick and tired of people constantly misconstruing the way I play to push me on it and then say that 'it's clear' that I have an agenda for doing what I always do in mafia games

That is my SoD rant for the night, I am going to bed and I will be here tomorrow

What interpretation do you give this now that you see Vivax's flip?

My issue is that you strongly ignored the fact that I've been pushing against Falcon all day and was actively campaigning for a vivax vote when with only 8 minutes left in the thread, you voted Falcon, and then interpreted people voting whom hadn't been around for the last hour as evidence that Falcon was bad... rather than... you know... people who hadn't been around for the last hour moving onto the wagon they most believed in.

I believe that you as town will do things like this to get a sense of what is going on, but I don't feel like it was actually done with good faith.

------------------------------------------

Can you tell me what your read on me was prior to the flip EoD yesterday? Also tell me your read on Jack for most of yesterday plz.

It's the timing of it that spooked me, you had like 10-15 minutes where Vivax/Joe were tied and nothing was happening. Nobody bats an eye that Vivax ties in the vote, nobody says anything about it and it just sits there and those active talk around it. But immediately as soon as I voted Falcon, there were people saying "no that's a bad vote" and then what looked to me like retaliatory votes for Vivax. But the explanation doesn't matter because of the results in your mind, you've come to the conclusion that something that is incredibly NAI for me (and again, ask Nutella, Hally or Nanook) is actively scummy, and now everything I do is scummy. Do you not realize that the orange is also a very bad faith argument to make? Or do you just not care because you've got an easy mischop?

I don't think it is in bad faith to consider that someone could have done something in their town range, but with a scum agenda. I do love an easy mischop.

You didn't answer any of my three questions, which all are asked in good faith to help me figure out if my suspicion on you is warranted. please address them.

I was too focused on seeing red from your post and my brain mistook the last two as part of a signature, the first one doesn't matter because my interpretation was wrong then so what do you care for what you're inevitably going to see as a scummy take that means nothing good?

To the first one, either the rest of the mafia team besides Vivax wasn't active ITT at EoD (which would be hard to believe) to react to Vivax being tied, or possibly the team had scout results on multiple players on Vivax's wagon being NPC so they didn't care that Vivax was tied because they knew (or otherwise just strongly believed) that he wasn't going to go over because the votecount wasn't actually condemnatory for him. The vote didn't tie though, despite being a 5-4-4, so either nobody on any of the wagons was an NPC (which is obviously false), or each wagon had at least one NPC on them. If Vivax had two NPCs, then Jack and Falcon also had to have 2 NPCs, etc. etc.

I think/thought very strongly that you were town because we were coming to a similar conclusion on Santy and were the most-aligned in pushing that read. It was wrong, but I know I'm town so that doesn't hypocritically make me suddenly read you scummier than me for the same read-fail. I think you're confbiasing yourself now and so convinced of a tunnel that anything I say is going to go over your head and out the window, which is incredibly frustrating as a perception regardless of if it's the reality, and I also cannot say that it hasn't affected how townie I think you are, but I still do not think you are mafia because I was expecting to get pushed for EoD. I just didn't expect it to be you, that took me by surprise

I didn't have a read on Jack initially but started townreading him around the time of the Falcon case for how he was approaching the read. I thought Jack was town and stated that multiple times ITT - specifically when conversing with Nutella, me and Nutella both saw the same problem, we disagreed with who the culprit of said problem was, and I stated more than once that I was townreading Jack in contrast with Nutella who was scumreading him as the problematic one. The initial Jack-Vivax-Falcon kerfuffle shuffle that was happening also increased my confidence in Jack being town when the votes went through Falcon and Vivax and wouldn't stick - but then landed on Jack and just completely stopped moving. As I just explained in my last post, the apathy is in general an extremely good indicator threadstate-wise of someone being a town mischop, and the fact that nobody care about Jack being a wagon all throughout the rest of the day, even as the CW shifted around and eventually overtook Jack as a wagon
I am very convinced that Jack is town, the only thing that would cause me to give any pause is that with Vivax being Mafia PR (and the infinitely-more-important PR of the two), there should've been an effort to push Jack over Vivax at the end to save Vivax since they were otherwise tied. But that again circles back to either VIvax's team wasn't active or they were overconfident in Vivax's wagon having more NPCs than in reality and didn't feel the need to pushback (and that obviously worked out well for them)

[Inawordyes]

I consider it bad faith when you acknowledge that it's in my town range and then turn around and say "but you're mafia so this town thing isn't actually townie for youi"

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@Hally
@Neon
@Lumi
@Michelle
@ilario

Yes can I help you my liege

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Neon is based, good job neon

Here to help

[Inawordyes]

Spoiler: show

I see the vote keeps changing every five minutes

That's good tbh, it means that mafia is probably involved here which puts us on the right track

its me, I am the mafia involved.

you fiend!

No but seriously, the fact that it's consolidating between Jack/Vivax/Falcon, but won't stay Jack/Vivax/Falcon for long, is a pretty decent indication that there's at least one mafia in that trio. Something something Rule of Threes, but the threadstate doesn't lie.

Not just because I already do think Jack is town, but I'm wondering if the wagons consolidating onto Jack and sticking atm actually spews him town? Basically everybody on Jack and Vivax sans pyxxy has been here in the last hour or so, so those votes are actively in flux. If there's mafia involved in this, there's mafia within those voters as they've been the ones directing the vote. Contrast that to Falcon's vote coming down solely to Hally who's AWOL, and Jack himself. Falcon's a point of contention but the wagons are consolidating away from him and towards Jack and Vivax, and initially it was Vivax and then switched to Jack and now Jack is sticking without movement. I don't think the wagons shifting away from Falcon and towards the other two is the greatest look for Falcon, but I'm trying to figure out if it's bad or not that the wagon was highly volatile while he was leading and now it's stagnated once Vivax is no longer the wagon

Actually, [VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

Who would you vote between Jack/Vivax/Falcon Inawy?

I don't think I vote Jack here, if not for my townread than because I think the threadstate right now is spewing him town because there was a volatile thread, it consolidated onto Jack - and then the thread clammed up. Which is exactly what I talked about earlier wrt mafia caring about the wagons when they're on the line and then relaxing once it falls on not-mafia.

It's just a question of whether to vote for Vivax/Falcon here, but I'm voting Vivax because tie that gives info

I see the vote keeps changing every five minutes

That's good tbh, it means that mafia is probably involved here which puts us on the right track

its me, I am the mafia involved.

you fiend!

No but seriously, the fact that it's consolidating between Jack/Vivax/Falcon, but won't stay Jack/Vivax/Falcon for long, is a pretty decent indication that there's at least one mafia in that trio. Something something Rule of Threes, but the threadstate doesn't lie.

Not just because I already do think Jack is town, but I'm wondering if the wagons consolidating onto Jack and sticking atm actually spews him town? Basically everybody on Jack and Vivax sans pyxxy has been here in the last hour or so, so those votes are actively in flux. If there's mafia involved in this, there's mafia within those voters as they've been the ones directing the vote. Contrast that to Falcon's vote coming down solely to Hally who's AWOL, and Jack himself. Falcon's a point of contention but the wagons are consolidating away from him and towards Jack and Vivax, and initially it was Vivax and then switched to Jack and now Jack is sticking without movement. I don't think the wagons shifting away from Falcon and towards the other two is the greatest look for Falcon, but I'm trying to figure out if it's bad or not that the wagon was highly volatile while he was leading and now it's stagnated once Vivax is no longer the wagon

Actually, [VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

You need to write this in a more concise manner clone brotha

Wolf hates getting votes. Wolf pack hates wolf getting votes. So wolves howl and try to make other votes happen. Once votes move away from wolf, wolves stop howling and there is silence.

The silence that fell into the thread once Jack became the top wagon is strongly indicative of Jack not being town and Mafia being okay with the chop. The fact that there was 'howling' in the thread beforehand also means that there is at least one wolf amongst the people who were posting and voting in the last hour

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
vivax (4): santygrass (95), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (113), Inawordyes (83)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (129), DeeZees (12), Vivax (31)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)

hmmm

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (3), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (131), DeeZees (12), Vivax (31)
falcon45ca (3): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53), Inawordyes (88)
vivax (3): santygrass (96), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (116)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (33)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)

ahhhhhhhhhh, and there's the outcome I hoped for

Jack: becomes top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: ties Vivax with Jack for top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: switched vote to Falcon, tying Vivax and Falcon for CW

the thread: immediate pushback and multiple players come out of the woodwork including to vote Vivax

it's like clockwork haha

The immediate resistance to falcon being the CW while there's apathy for the last 10 minutes while Jack and Vivax are tied for top wagon probably spews the latter two town here I think

ahhhhhhhhhh, and there's the outcome I hoped for

Jack: becomes top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: ties Vivax with Jack for top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: switched vote to Falcon, tying Vivax and Falcon for CW

the thread: immediate pushback and multiple players come out of the woodwork including to vote Vivax

it's like clockwork haha

you suggesting falcon is being saved?

I think that the apathy ITT while Jack was top wagon, the apathy in the thread over Vivax being tied for top wagon, and the almost-instantaneous pushback once I tied Falcon is quite telling

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

okay voting for DeeZees joke over this looks _bad_ bad for IAWY

[VOTE: Inawordyes] aubergine

Explain your reasoning why

[Michelle]

P rude posting on my page tbh but I'll allow it
[VOTE: vivax] aubergine

Is this the vote you consider it clears you Zeus?

[Inawordyes]

Spoiler: show

I see the vote keeps changing every five minutes

That's good tbh, it means that mafia is probably involved here which puts us on the right track

its me, I am the mafia involved.

you fiend!

No but seriously, the fact that it's consolidating between Jack/Vivax/Falcon, but won't stay Jack/Vivax/Falcon for long, is a pretty decent indication that there's at least one mafia in that trio. Something something Rule of Threes, but the threadstate doesn't lie.

Not just because I already do think Jack is town, but I'm wondering if the wagons consolidating onto Jack and sticking atm actually spews him town? Basically everybody on Jack and Vivax sans pyxxy has been here in the last hour or so, so those votes are actively in flux. If there's mafia involved in this, there's mafia within those voters as they've been the ones directing the vote. Contrast that to Falcon's vote coming down solely to Hally who's AWOL, and Jack himself. Falcon's a point of contention but the wagons are consolidating away from him and towards Jack and Vivax, and initially it was Vivax and then switched to Jack and now Jack is sticking without movement. I don't think the wagons shifting away from Falcon and towards the other two is the greatest look for Falcon, but I'm trying to figure out if it's bad or not that the wagon was highly volatile while he was leading and now it's stagnated once Vivax is no longer the wagon

Actually, [VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

Who would you vote between Jack/Vivax/Falcon Inawy?

I don't think I vote Jack here, if not for my townread than because I think the threadstate right now is spewing him town because there was a volatile thread, it consolidated onto Jack - and then the thread clammed up. Which is exactly what I talked about earlier wrt mafia caring about the wagons when they're on the line and then relaxing once it falls on not-mafia.

It's just a question of whether to vote for Vivax/Falcon here, but I'm voting Vivax because tie that gives info

its me, I am the mafia involved.

you fiend!

No but seriously, the fact that it's consolidating between Jack/Vivax/Falcon, but won't stay Jack/Vivax/Falcon for long, is a pretty decent indication that there's at least one mafia in that trio. Something something Rule of Threes, but the threadstate doesn't lie.

Not just because I already do think Jack is town, but I'm wondering if the wagons consolidating onto Jack and sticking atm actually spews him town? Basically everybody on Jack and Vivax sans pyxxy has been here in the last hour or so, so those votes are actively in flux. If there's mafia involved in this, there's mafia within those voters as they've been the ones directing the vote. Contrast that to Falcon's vote coming down solely to Hally who's AWOL, and Jack himself. Falcon's a point of contention but the wagons are consolidating away from him and towards Jack and Vivax, and initially it was Vivax and then switched to Jack and now Jack is sticking without movement. I don't think the wagons shifting away from Falcon and towards the other two is the greatest look for Falcon, but I'm trying to figure out if it's bad or not that the wagon was highly volatile while he was leading and now it's stagnated once Vivax is no longer the wagon

Actually, [VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

You need to write this in a more concise manner clone brotha

Wolf hates getting votes. Wolf pack hates wolf getting votes. So wolves howl and try to make other votes happen. Once votes move away from wolf, wolves stop howling and there is silence.

The silence that fell into the thread once Jack became the top wagon is strongly indicative of Jack not being town and Mafia being okay with the chop. The fact that there was 'howling' in the thread beforehand also means that there is at least one wolf amongst the people who were posting and voting in the last hour

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
vivax (4): santygrass (95), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (113), Inawordyes (83)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (129), DeeZees (12), Vivax (31)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)

hmmm

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (3), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (131), DeeZees (12), Vivax (31)
falcon45ca (3): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53), Inawordyes (88)
vivax (3): santygrass (96), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (116)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (33)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)

ahhhhhhhhhh, and there's the outcome I hoped for

Jack: becomes top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: ties Vivax with Jack for top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: switched vote to Falcon, tying Vivax and Falcon for CW

the thread: immediate pushback and multiple players come out of the woodwork including to vote Vivax

it's like clockwork haha

The immediate resistance to falcon being the CW while there's apathy for the last 10 minutes while Jack and Vivax are tied for top wagon probably spews the latter two town here I think

ahhhhhhhhhh, and there's the outcome I hoped for

Jack: becomes top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: ties Vivax with Jack for top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: switched vote to Falcon, tying Vivax and Falcon for CW

the thread: immediate pushback and multiple players come out of the woodwork including to vote Vivax

it's like clockwork haha

you suggesting falcon is being saved?

I think that the apathy ITT while Jack was top wagon, the apathy in the thread over Vivax being tied for top wagon, and the almost-instantaneous pushback once I tied Falcon is quite telling

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

okay voting for DeeZees joke over this looks _bad_ bad for IAWY

[VOTE: Inawordyes] aubergine

since I tend to undershare

I'm building off of Nutella's work + Seanzie's work + also assuming here that scum!iawy is making a play to save vivax

as nutella said

it seems like iawy's vivax vote that tied vivax with jack was a risk but a calculated one that worked out for his agenda if he's a wolf and wanted to make the argument he made

I've been thinking for like 10 minutes on one more question

if this is scum!iawy, can the desire to tie -> move to and push falcon tell us anything about who scum knows is a player?

I can't figure this last part out

Vivax (5): Santygrass, DrWilgy, Seanzie, Michelle, Lumi
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy, nutella, DeeZees, Vivax

looking at the near EOD vote counts from the IAWY posts that Nutella quoted:

Spoiler: show

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
vivax (4): santygrass (95), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (113), Inawordyes (83)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (129), DeeZees (12), Vivax (31)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)

hmmm

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (3), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (131), DeeZees (12), Vivax (31)
falcon45ca (3): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53), Inawordyes (88)
vivax (3): santygrass (96), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (116)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (33)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)

If IAWY is scum, then it would lead that he felt confident that this vivax wagon would lose to the nascent falcon wagon, right?

jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (131), DeeZees (12), Vivax (31)
falcon45ca (3): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53), Inawordyes (88)
vivax (3): santygrass (95), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (113)

things did indeed change in the last 6 minutes after this play, with Hally dropping from falcon and Michelle+Lumi joining on Vivax

Vivax (5): Santygrass, DrWilgy, Seanzie, Michelle, Lumi
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy, nutella, DeeZees, Vivax
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, ilario
falcon45ca (2): Jackofhearts2005, Inawordyes

....yeah there's something here but I just can't put my finger on it

maybe scum felt somewhat confident that there were more players still on the jack wagon at EOD?

and ofc could be wrong about IAWY being scum

nvm I missed this

You didn't explain anywhere why you think this is _bad_ bad for me. You're presuming that I am mafia, and "I'm sheeping Nutella/Seanzie" isn't a reason I'm going to accept when I am apparently the easiest person in the game to push and so it's incredibly easy to just park a vote and be done with it because I'm just getting dogpiled by exactly that where basically everybody is just sheeping Sean's read without providing their own (and state so or quote Sean saying to do so in your vote post)

In the world where I am town here, what does that change in your perception of how EoD went? You say that you can't figure out what's up and that's in the worldstate where you think presume I'm mafia. Do things make more or less sense FYPOV in the worldstate where you presume I'm town?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Santygrass dead.

Spoiler: show

Town.

Day begins.

Obviously. I didn’t really read EOD so idk if this is a better kill but ppl were trying to misyeet Santy yesterday so seeing him killed is a bit surprising.

[Jackofhearts2005]

lol im voting with pyxxy i dont super love that

Might I interest you in a vote on Falcon, who has big eyes, big ears, big teeth and is sleeping in your grandmother’s bed?

It‘s probably not just my grandma so I‘d suggest the thousand suns instead.

Hee ho

[Seanzie]

it seems like iawy's vivax vote that tied vivax with jack was a risk but a calculated one that worked out for his agenda if he's a wolf and wanted to make the argument he made

I think it's clear that IAWY never intended to keep their vote there.

I understand why I'm a wagon atm, but you straight-up don't know what you're talking about Sean. Several players still alive can vouch that this is my playstyle, this is what I regularly do. Nobody cared about Vivax being a wagon until Vivax wasn't a wagon anymore, just like nobody cared about Jack being top wagon the moment things consolidated onto him - from Vivax, I might add, which I already had pointed out. The threadstate painted a very clear picture of what was going on - or so I thought - and I moved because what it was telling me was that Vivax was not a hit there. I was wrong, I look scummy for it, and that sucks a whole lot for me, boo hoo oh well, but I am sick and tired of people constantly misconstruing the way I play to push me on it and then say that 'it's clear' that I have an agenda for doing what I always do in mafia games

That is my SoD rant for the night, I am going to bed and I will be here tomorrow

What interpretation do you give this now that you see Vivax's flip?

My issue is that you strongly ignored the fact that I've been pushing against Falcon all day and was actively campaigning for a vivax vote when with only 8 minutes left in the thread, you voted Falcon, and then interpreted people voting whom hadn't been around for the last hour as evidence that Falcon was bad... rather than... you know... people who hadn't been around for the last hour moving onto the wagon they most believed in.

I believe that you as town will do things like this to get a sense of what is going on, but I don't feel like it was actually done with good faith.

------------------------------------------

Can you tell me what your read on me was prior to the flip EoD yesterday? Also tell me your read on Jack for most of yesterday plz.

It's the timing of it that spooked me, you had like 10-15 minutes where Vivax/Joe were tied and nothing was happening. Nobody bats an eye that Vivax ties in the vote, nobody says anything about it and it just sits there and those active talk around it. But immediately as soon as I voted Falcon, there were people saying "no that's a bad vote" and then what looked to me like retaliatory votes for Vivax. But the explanation doesn't matter because of the results in your mind, you've come to the conclusion that something that is incredibly NAI for me (and again, ask Nutella, Hally or Nanook) is actively scummy, and now everything I do is scummy. Do you not realize that the orange is also a very bad faith argument to make? Or do you just not care because you've got an easy mischop?

I don't think it is in bad faith to consider that someone could have done something in their town range, but with a scum agenda. I do love an easy mischop.

You didn't answer any of my three questions, which all are asked in good faith to help me figure out if my suspicion on you is warranted. please address them.

I was too focused on seeing red from your post and my brain mistook the last two as part of a signature, the first one doesn't matter because my interpretation was wrong then so what do you care for what you're inevitably going to see as a scummy take that means nothing good?

To the first one, either the rest of the mafia team besides Vivax wasn't active ITT at EoD (which would be hard to believe) to react to Vivax being tied, or possibly the team had scout results on multiple players on Vivax's wagon being NPC so they didn't care that Vivax was tied because they knew (or otherwise just strongly believed) that he wasn't going to go over because the votecount wasn't actually condemnatory for him. The vote didn't tie though, despite being a 5-4-4, so either nobody on any of the wagons was an NPC (which is obviously false), or each wagon had at least one NPC on them. If Vivax had two NPCs, then Jack and Falcon also had to have 2 NPCs, etc. etc.

I think/thought very strongly that you were town because we were coming to a similar conclusion on Santy and were the most-aligned in pushing that read. It was wrong, but I know I'm town so that doesn't hypocritically make me suddenly read you scummier than me for the same read-fail. I think you're confbiasing yourself now and so convinced of a tunnel that anything I say is going to go over your head and out the window, which is incredibly frustrating as a perception regardless of if it's the reality, and I also cannot say that it hasn't affected how townie I think you are, but I still do not think you are mafia because I was expecting to get pushed for EoD. I just didn't expect it to be you, that took me by surprise

I didn't have a read on Jack initially but started townreading him around the time of the Falcon case for how he was approaching the read. I thought Jack was town and stated that multiple times ITT - specifically when conversing with Nutella, me and Nutella both saw the same problem, we disagreed with who the culprit of said problem was, and I stated more than once that I was townreading Jack in contrast with Nutella who was scumreading him as the problematic one. The initial Jack-Vivax-Falcon kerfuffle shuffle that was happening also increased my confidence in Jack being town when the votes went through Falcon and Vivax and wouldn't stick - but then landed on Jack and just completely stopped moving. As I just explained in my last post, the apathy is in general an extremely good indicator threadstate-wise of someone being a town mischop, and the fact that nobody care about Jack being a wagon all throughout the rest of the day, even as the CW shifted around and eventually overtook Jack as a wagon
I am very convinced that Jack is town, the only thing that would cause me to give any pause is that with Vivax being Mafia PR (and the infinitely-more-important PR of the two), there should've been an effort to push Jack over Vivax at the end to save Vivax since they were otherwise tied. But that again circles back to either VIvax's team wasn't active or they were overconfident in Vivax's wagon having more NPCs than in reality and didn't feel the need to pushback (and that obviously worked out well for them)

Falcon only had two votes at EoD, so it not tying says little about Falcon voters. EOD VC for reference:

Spoiler: show

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

vivax (5): santygrass (99), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (119), Michelle (40), Lumi (44)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (28), nutella (135), DeeZees (12), Vivax (32)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
falcon45ca (2): Jackofhearts2005 (53), Inawordyes (92)
unvote (1): Hally (24)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)

Not Voting (5): MacDougall (4), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23), Schiavetto (5)

I don't think things were stagnant when Jack was the lead wagon. You said yourself votes were in flux. Here are four VCs each spaced 20 minutes apart leading up to EoD.

Spoiler: show

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (5): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), DeeZees (11), Porscha (23)
deezees (4): Seanzie (105), Vivax (22), DrWilgy (29), nutella (94)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (35)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
vivax (1): santygrass (79)
jackofhearts2005 (1): pyxxy (23)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (77)

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (5): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), DeeZees (11), Porscha (23)
vivax (4): santygrass (83), nutella (108), Seanzie (106), DrWilgy (38)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (35)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
jackofhearts2005 (1): pyxxy (23)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
deezees (1): Vivax (25)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (77)

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (127), Seanzie (110), DeeZees (12)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
pyxxy (2): Neon (61), DrWilgy (48)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
vivax (1): santygrass (90)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
deezees (1): Vivax (26)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (77)

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (129), DeeZees (12), Vivax (29)
vivax (3): santygrass (94), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (112)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (79)

People who weren't around:

falcon45ca
Hally
iaafr
ilario
Manny
Nanook
Neon
Porscha
Pyxxy
Ricochet
Shiavetta
sprityo

Jack voters:
Pyxxy
Nutella
Deezees

Out of these two lists, who do you think are most likely Vivax's teammates? Any leads?

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: DeeZees] aubergine

Seanzie to top town

Tmi Seanzie as not wolf, if there was any doubt.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Pyxxy looks kinda bad off the top of my head but see if that actually bears out

[Seanzie]

Santygrass dead.

Spoiler: show

Town.

Day begins.

Obviously. I didn’t really read EOD so idk if this is a better kill but ppl were trying to misyeet Santy yesterday so seeing him killed is a bit surprising.

Santy probably would not have been anyone's suspect today.

You're also clear.

Help me figure out who Vivax's teammates are. You can look at the post I just posted to IAWY to see four VCs leading up to EoD. Any thoughts when looking them over?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Honestly, I’m just gonna read through eod starting from when I left with the knowledge that Vivax is a wolf and Santy is confirmed town. That tends to give me the most bang for my buck where bucks are measured in time

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oh, but now I'm voting with Vivax and idk how I feel on that.

Hmm. I’m pretty high on Wilgy but this has tmi potential. Does Wilgy scumread Vivax prior to this?

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: deezees] aubergine

Alison is yelling at us somewhere

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (5): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), DeeZees (11), Porscha (23)
deezees (4): Seanzie (105), Vivax (22), DrWilgy (29), nutella (94)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (35)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
vivax (1): santygrass (79)
jackofhearts2005 (1): pyxxy (23)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (77)

Inb4 vivax and wilgy are mafia saving jack or some shit

Thanks, I hate it.

I am worse at reading Nutella now than I was like 2-3 years ago and I think that is because she primarily got more comfortable and generally skilled as a wolf, which meant the different thinking town Nutella or busy town Nutella and wolf Nutella stopped being so noticeably different.

So with that big asterisk about me being not as good at reading Nutella (which she will loathe lolololol), I’m gonna say that I don’t think this sounds like something wolf Nutella says. Especially if Wilgy is town. Wolf Nutella might cheekily be like “maybe two of my partners are trying to save non wolf Jack.” Still gth town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think wolf Nutella is one of the wiser players wrt town Jack, ie not suicide running to fail to misyeet me but also not coming across as scared to engage me but that’s neither here nor there.

[pyxxy]

- also kinda got swayed by IAWY's entrance
- would flip DeeZees for the player solving info
- script > poll
- I await Michelle's wagon construction
- @/Manny, a majority of players? prob not
- any thoughts about schiavetto before D8 are just evidence of her winning and living in your heads rent free

a for real @ @Inawordyes to respond, I'm still terrible at reads in mafia imo so I do suffer from "find a conclusion and fit the evidence to it"

I thought I tried to be honest in the post by acknowledging that I was viewing it from the perspective of "ur evil, comma, if" but my memory is hazing and re-reading is for chumps

if anything I'm more swayed by your "Jack is spewed town" argument although it has once again changed what I thought the meaning of spew is

I think you're earned an [VOTE: Unvote] aubergine for now with your efforts

[Jackofhearts2005]

And fwiw rn I'm wondering if there's a world where I'm wrong on both Neon and Jack.

Jack's strong read on my slot has me thrown off. Like does Jack actually have the read or TMI on me? Felt the same shit when Nook had a pretty good tell for me figured out until I broke the tell.

This reads honest.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Don’t postcap, me

[pyxxy]

Jack voters:
Pyxxy
Nutella
Deezees

Out of these two lists, who do you think are most likely Vivax's teammates? Any leads?

lol im on a list with Nutella i dont super love that

[pyxxy]

Pyxxy looks kinda bad off the top of my head but see if that actually bears out

excuse you I woke up _glowing_ this morning after getting home at 4am

[Jackofhearts2005]

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (5): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), DeeZees (11), Porscha (23)
vivax (3): santygrass (80), nutella (99), Seanzie (106)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
deezees (2): Vivax (22), DrWilgy (32)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (35)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
jackofhearts2005 (1): pyxxy (23)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (77)

Wilgy and Nutella votes for Vivax around here look good for both slots.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Pyxxy looks kinda bad off the top of my head but see if that actually bears out

excuse you I woke up _glowing_ this morning after getting home at 4am

Picks or it didn’t happen

[pyxxy]

Pyxxy looks kinda bad off the top of my head but see if that actually bears out

excuse you I woke up _glowing_ this morning after getting home at 4am

Picks or it didn’t happen

I had

Spoiler: show

France over Argentina

[Jackofhearts2005]

Tbh if at least one voter on me was town (Nutella) and Vivax only got yeeted over me by a couple votes and I wasn’t even around to be unyeetable, why wasn’t I yeeted? Like, points to either absent wolves or deep wolves. Does wolf Schia pop in at the last min and not vote with her partner in a close wagon? Probably.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Pyxxy looks kinda bad off the top of my head but see if that actually bears out

excuse you I woke up _glowing_ this morning after getting home at 4am

Picks or it didn’t happen

I had

Spoiler: show

France over Argentina

I had fuck FIFA

[Seanzie]

Tbh if at least one voter on me was town (Nutella) and Vivax only got yeeted over me by a couple votes and I wasn’t even around to be unyeetable, why wasn’t I yeeted? Like, points to either absent wolves or deep wolves. Does wolf Schia pop in at the last min and not vote with her partner in a close wagon? Probably.

Unless if every single person on both Vivax and you are real players, you also had at least one NPC on you (I suppose Nutella could be that NPC), which does very strongly suggest wolves were either not around at EoD, or they were not positioned in a way that would allow them to vote you.

Unfortunately a long number of people were not around at EoD.

[Jackofhearts2005]

ok well the gist is that iawy thinks it is significant that both he and i independently concluded that there was a malicious agent on the falcon wagon, i thought it was jack and he thought it was santy, and he thought it was both possible it's either a wolf bussing/with tmi falcon is a hit or a wolf doubling down on a mischop opportunity if falcon is town

so if you tr falcon, do you think jack/santy contains wolf for the push?

This is kinda gross tbh

[Jackofhearts2005]

Tbh if at least one voter on me was town (Nutella) and Vivax only got yeeted over me by a couple votes and I wasn’t even around to be unyeetable, why wasn’t I yeeted? Like, points to either absent wolves or deep wolves. Does wolf Schia pop in at the last min and not vote with her partner in a close wagon? Probably.

Unless if every single person on both Vivax and you are real players, you also had at least one NPC on you (I suppose Nutella could be that NPC), which does very strongly suggest wolves were either not around at EoD, or they were not positioned in a way that would allow them to vote you.

Unfortunately a long number of people were not around at EoD.

Or Nutella is a wolf waffle waffle

[Jackofhearts2005]

lol maybe it's santy

Also gross

[Jackofhearts2005]

I see the vote keeps changing every five minutes

That's good tbh, it means that mafia is probably involved here which puts us on the right track

its me, I am the mafia involved.

you fiend!

No but seriously, the fact that it's consolidating between Jack/Vivax/Falcon, but won't stay Jack/Vivax/Falcon for long, is a pretty decent indication that there's at least one mafia in that trio. Something something Rule of Threes, but the threadstate doesn't lie.

Not just because I already do think Jack is town, but I'm wondering if the wagons consolidating onto Jack and sticking atm actually spews him town? Basically everybody on Jack and Vivax sans pyxxy has been here in the last hour or so, so those votes are actively in flux. If there's mafia involved in this, there's mafia within those voters as they've been the ones directing the vote. Contrast that to Falcon's vote coming down solely to Hally who's AWOL, and Jack himself. Falcon's a point of contention but the wagons are consolidating away from him and towards Jack and Vivax, and initially it was Vivax and then switched to Jack and now Jack is sticking without movement. I don't think the wagons shifting away from Falcon and towards the other two is the greatest look for Falcon, but I'm trying to figure out if it's bad or not that the wagon was highly volatile while he was leading and now it's stagnated once Vivax is no longer the wagon

Actually, [VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

Townie sexiness

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I'm aware I'm in a tunnel but im also aware I'm correct so neener neener

you arent buddy lol

I can't hear you over the sound of my massive tunnel

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Neon is based, good job neon

Here to help

❤

[Seanzie]

I'm aware I'm in a tunnel but im also aware I'm correct so neener neener

you arent buddy lol

I can't hear you over the sound of my massive tunnel

Convince me that Nutella is scum.

[Inawordyes]

I think it's clear that IAWY never intended to keep their vote there.

I understand why I'm a wagon atm, but you straight-up don't know what you're talking about Sean. Several players still alive can vouch that this is my playstyle, this is what I regularly do. Nobody cared about Vivax being a wagon until Vivax wasn't a wagon anymore, just like nobody cared about Jack being top wagon the moment things consolidated onto him - from Vivax, I might add, which I already had pointed out. The threadstate painted a very clear picture of what was going on - or so I thought - and I moved because what it was telling me was that Vivax was not a hit there. I was wrong, I look scummy for it, and that sucks a whole lot for me, boo hoo oh well, but I am sick and tired of people constantly misconstruing the way I play to push me on it and then say that 'it's clear' that I have an agenda for doing what I always do in mafia games

That is my SoD rant for the night, I am going to bed and I will be here tomorrow

What interpretation do you give this now that you see Vivax's flip?

My issue is that you strongly ignored the fact that I've been pushing against Falcon all day and was actively campaigning for a vivax vote when with only 8 minutes left in the thread, you voted Falcon, and then interpreted people voting whom hadn't been around for the last hour as evidence that Falcon was bad... rather than... you know... people who hadn't been around for the last hour moving onto the wagon they most believed in.

I believe that you as town will do things like this to get a sense of what is going on, but I don't feel like it was actually done with good faith.

------------------------------------------

Can you tell me what your read on me was prior to the flip EoD yesterday? Also tell me your read on Jack for most of yesterday plz.

It's the timing of it that spooked me, you had like 10-15 minutes where Vivax/Joe were tied and nothing was happening. Nobody bats an eye that Vivax ties in the vote, nobody says anything about it and it just sits there and those active talk around it. But immediately as soon as I voted Falcon, there were people saying "no that's a bad vote" and then what looked to me like retaliatory votes for Vivax. But the explanation doesn't matter because of the results in your mind, you've come to the conclusion that something that is incredibly NAI for me (and again, ask Nutella, Hally or Nanook) is actively scummy, and now everything I do is scummy. Do you not realize that the orange is also a very bad faith argument to make? Or do you just not care because you've got an easy mischop?

I don't think it is in bad faith to consider that someone could have done something in their town range, but with a scum agenda. I do love an easy mischop.

You didn't answer any of my three questions, which all are asked in good faith to help me figure out if my suspicion on you is warranted. please address them.

I was too focused on seeing red from your post and my brain mistook the last two as part of a signature, the first one doesn't matter because my interpretation was wrong then so what do you care for what you're inevitably going to see as a scummy take that means nothing good?

To the first one, either the rest of the mafia team besides Vivax wasn't active ITT at EoD (which would be hard to believe) to react to Vivax being tied, or possibly the team had scout results on multiple players on Vivax's wagon being NPC so they didn't care that Vivax was tied because they knew (or otherwise just strongly believed) that he wasn't going to go over because the votecount wasn't actually condemnatory for him. The vote didn't tie though, despite being a 5-4-4, so either nobody on any of the wagons was an NPC (which is obviously false), or each wagon had at least one NPC on them. If Vivax had two NPCs, then Jack and Falcon also had to have 2 NPCs, etc. etc.

I think/thought very strongly that you were town because we were coming to a similar conclusion on Santy and were the most-aligned in pushing that read. It was wrong, but I know I'm town so that doesn't hypocritically make me suddenly read you scummier than me for the same read-fail. I think you're confbiasing yourself now and so convinced of a tunnel that anything I say is going to go over your head and out the window, which is incredibly frustrating as a perception regardless of if it's the reality, and I also cannot say that it hasn't affected how townie I think you are, but I still do not think you are mafia because I was expecting to get pushed for EoD. I just didn't expect it to be you, that took me by surprise

I didn't have a read on Jack initially but started townreading him around the time of the Falcon case for how he was approaching the read. I thought Jack was town and stated that multiple times ITT - specifically when conversing with Nutella, me and Nutella both saw the same problem, we disagreed with who the culprit of said problem was, and I stated more than once that I was townreading Jack in contrast with Nutella who was scumreading him as the problematic one. The initial Jack-Vivax-Falcon kerfuffle shuffle that was happening also increased my confidence in Jack being town when the votes went through Falcon and Vivax and wouldn't stick - but then landed on Jack and just completely stopped moving. As I just explained in my last post, the apathy is in general an extremely good indicator threadstate-wise of someone being a town mischop, and the fact that nobody care about Jack being a wagon all throughout the rest of the day, even as the CW shifted around and eventually overtook Jack as a wagon
I am very convinced that Jack is town, the only thing that would cause me to give any pause is that with Vivax being Mafia PR (and the infinitely-more-important PR of the two), there should've been an effort to push Jack over Vivax at the end to save Vivax since they were otherwise tied. But that again circles back to either VIvax's team wasn't active or they were overconfident in Vivax's wagon having more NPCs than in reality and didn't feel the need to pushback (and that obviously worked out well for them)

Falcon only had two votes at EoD, so it not tying says little about Falcon voters. EOD VC for reference:

Spoiler: show

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

vivax (5): santygrass (99), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (119), Michelle (40), Lumi (44)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (28), nutella (135), DeeZees (12), Vivax (32)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
falcon45ca (2): Jackofhearts2005 (53), Inawordyes (92)
unvote (1): Hally (24)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)

Not Voting (5): MacDougall (4), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23), Schiavetto (5)

I don't think things were stagnant when Jack was the lead wagon. You said yourself votes were in flux. Here are four VCs each spaced 20 minutes apart leading up to EoD.

Spoiler: show

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (5): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), DeeZees (11), Porscha (23)
deezees (4): Seanzie (105), Vivax (22), DrWilgy (29), nutella (94)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (35)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
vivax (1): santygrass (79)
jackofhearts2005 (1): pyxxy (23)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (77)

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (5): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), DeeZees (11), Porscha (23)
vivax (4): santygrass (83), nutella (108), Seanzie (106), DrWilgy (38)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (35)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
jackofhearts2005 (1): pyxxy (23)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
deezees (1): Vivax (25)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (77)

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (127), Seanzie (110), DeeZees (12)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
pyxxy (2): Neon (61), DrWilgy (48)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
vivax (1): santygrass (90)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
deezees (1): Vivax (26)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (77)

Day 5 Vote Count
SoD: #5825 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (2), sprityo (5), SilverKeith (1), Porscha (23)
jackofhearts2005 (4): pyxxy (23), nutella (129), DeeZees (12), Vivax (29)
vivax (3): santygrass (94), DrWilgy (50), Seanzie (112)
falcon45ca (2): Hally (18), Jackofhearts2005 (53)
nutella (2): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (5), ilario (14)
manny (1): Manny (37)
pyxxy (1): Neon (61)
ilario (1): Michelle (37)
drwilgy (1): Lumi (30)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
santygrass (1): falcon45ca (55)
schiavetto (1): Inawordyes (79)

People who weren't around:

falcon45ca
Hally
iaafr
ilario
Manny
Nanook
Neon
Porscha
Pyxxy
Ricochet
Shiavetta
sprityo

Jack voters:
Pyxxy
Nutella
Deezees

Out of these two lists, who do you think are most likely Vivax's teammates? Any leads?

I think there's a decent chance that at least one of Neon/Illario is mafia, as I commented on earlier, with the way that Vivax at multiple times commented on how wagons that they were on were "tentatively pure" and "pure mostly". Neon was CW to Lily who flipped town, but the next day basically all the sus Neon got dissipated as far as actually pushing them as a wagon for being scummy. Which is either a combo of NPC pushing Neon and dying + NPCs pushing elsewhere because they don't need to truly care what's going on, or W!Neon and her teammates redirecting the vote elsewhere. With Illario, I don't have much because Illario is a huge question mark in general, but Vivax pointing out Neon and avoiding Illario during those multiple times is kinda pinging me as notable here for the absence, and Illario's "I'm a player everybody" post earlier as well as their really lackluster sheep vote on my wagon doesn't look so hot to me in the light of a potential W!Illario world. But I have literally nothing on Illario otherwise as far as their actual content

I do think there is still a possibility that Falcon is mafia. The threadstate caring about falcon being a wagon and Vivax being a wagon but not Jack being a wagon point to either mafia having scouted Falcon/Jack and knowing that they're NPC/a player (respectively), or Falcon is also mafia and the reason for the top wagon being a hot potato situation until Jack overtook them both and then suddenly it stopped moving around. Vivax also put his focus into targeting Jack over Falcon despite both of them being options in a 3-way voting war for most of the latter half of yesterday. For I guess what should be fairly obvious reasons I am not about to go heavy into pushing Falcon again today in the light of a Mafia flip given that he still was a CW to that wagon, but I am not completely sold and I don't want there to be yet another day where someone is heavily suspected, becomes a top wagon for most of the day, doesn't die at EoD, and then completely loses any and all sus and the motivation to keep pushing a wagon on them the next day. That would make the third one in a row, and with Neon's status in question RE: the above, I think that it's a very dangerous position to completely fall away from sus on people who were CWs when they didn't do anything fundamentally to change the scumreads on them, they just didn't get chopped

That points me squarely into Wilgy/Neon/Falcon, and Wilgy is someone that I need to look into more because initially I was thinking that Vivax spewed him town in his ISO like I believe he did with DeeZees, but then towards the end there were some inconsistencies in his position towards him that I saw and was like "wait what? hmm". It would be really funny (and funny I mean terrible and tragic) if all three of them are the remaining team and we almost had a wolf chop every single day, but I highly doubt all three of them are mafia here

I still am fairly confident that Schia is lockwolf, but Schia's also barely even playing and it's almost-comical how little involvement they have. At the same time, they're basically frozen and literally only posting to meet the postmin, and nobody is seriously calling them out on it in favor of delaying until post-purge to insta-chop if they're still alive. If you think they're mafia and you don't vote them out, then you're just giving the mafia team more power, as Schia may be doing the least here, but we have no ability to know if W!Schia is doing the most in scumchat, which makes them being alive, if scum, a huge liability for us even if they're not directly projecting power and their influence into the thread

[Inawordyes]

Pyxxy looks kinda bad off the top of my head but see if that actually bears out

Further explanation?

[Michelle]

Actually if he explains that read I will follow Nanook

I liked the vote on sprityo, we should talk about other people low posting, not just Schiavetto.

Waiting for DZ to answer, but he's probably RL busy

I remember i searched the votes on D3 VIvax wagon so I will iso myself in the morning.

Gth Jack feels like a low poster townie who's searching for answers