The Syndicate

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:15 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:05 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:04 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:04 am Boquise feels like he is playing in a lonely manner. If he flipped scum I would be at a loss for figuring out who his accomplices are. He gives me the impression of someone popping in and trying to piece together a worldview by himself. This is townie.
Marmot and Fingersplints lol
Does this feel like a thread that has been left untouched by the presence of wolves?

doesn't feel like it's not lol

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:17 am**

The way I see this game is fairly simple.

Mac and JJJ are both playing to their obvious town power town selves. I think they are very likely just town but even if they are I suspect they are townsiding for now because they are bringing down a lot of unnecessary bad attention if they shove blatantly bad reads down our throat here. So either way their reads are probably going to be good D1.

I am likely going to prioritize hammering on the reads we have in our Venn diagram overlap as those are the most likely to be hits. If we don't get pelts after a bit it will be obvious something is rotten.

As mentioned earlier, I find Boquise, Wilgy and Lucy townie in addition to JJJ and Mac. I am hands off Rondo for now in deference to Mac's read. Nate feels like someone a little out of their depth but trying to do the best he can to be part of the solving which I think is a pretty okay place to be in.

Seanzie has been ~fine. He started off a little weaker than usual but his ISO of me was decent. I wouldn't put him in my town squad but I don't really have interest in a Seanzie exe today.

I interpreted Ender's cryptic approach to Seanzie earlier as a way to fish for reactions with him like he did with JJJ but he hasn't really followed through on that promise which leaves me wondering why he did it. I am also unnerved by how hands-off he is with Rondo, who he knows well and even gave advice on how to read. It's weird that me and Mac have a stronger read on Rondo than the guy who knows him the best.

Loosely, I have a POE pool of Falcon, Creature and Ender. The afks remain null, maybe bump Dizzy a bit higher since he is more shameless about lurking when he is town and feels obligated to try a bit harder as scum.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:19 am**

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:10 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:05 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:04 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:04 am Boquise feels like he is playing in a lonely manner. If he flipped scum I would be at a loss for figuring out who his accomplices are. He gives me the impression of someone popping in and trying to piece together a worldview by himself. This is townie.
Marmot and Fingersplints lol
Does this feel like a thread that has been left untouched by the presence of wolves?
yeah tbh. bad sign, no?

If you seriously think that then it should be a really good sign. All we have to do is gun down the afks for free pelts. I am not as convinced that the thread is unsullied however. What makes you think that the wolves haven't showed up yet?

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:20 am**

What's your read on Creature again Mac?

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:22 am**

@Boquise Run me through the reads you feel the strongest about, please.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:23 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:35 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:42 pm Lmao I think it is fun!

I feel like thread state-wise, Rando is rand>town. Aside from being funny, I feel like they have made some tonally townie posts. Example: the one where they talk about AtE, not wanting to omgus Alison, then votes Alison. I am not sure at all how Rando approaches the game, but I don't think a scum player there would break the "lmao this is so funny that you're tunnelling me" spiel so quickly. I think these are things scum are more interested in keeping consistent.
I don't have any experience with Rondo's scum game in specific, but I don't get the sense that he'd be particularly interested in keeping things consistent as scum; he seems like a bit of a troll and someone who intentionally does random things for fun, and those seem like part of his personality and would be expressed as either alignment.

I agree with you on the troll part. That is not why I am town leaning him though, as I explain in that post you're quoting tbh

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:28 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:22 am @Boquise Run me through the reads you feel the strongest about, please.

Lucy - I think the way she approaches the thread and how she responded to my question on her wall to be alike how she played in her quali.

Seanze - I liked the way they started to form reads early on in D0

Mac - Now this one is a bit difficult. I have a few expectations of Mac when he plays as either alignment (and I have rn a 100% accuracy on reading him as both alignments). Rn I think he is checking off the town boxes. He is a bit tunnelly, but the tunnels help him form reads. Still am a bit wary because I am not used to Mac not being the loudest person in the room.

So plenty of my reads are not "strong" - they are feels. I am trying to replicate how I have read the games as a jury member, and add it to my regular repertoire. Which is to just bookmark things that on a first read feels "good" tbh

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:28 am**

Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:23 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:35 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:42 pm Lmao I think it is fun!

I feel like thread state-wise, Rando is rand>town. Aside from being funny, I feel like they have made some tonally townie posts. Example: the one where they talk about AtE, not wanting to omgus Alison, then votes Alison. I am not sure at all how Rando approaches the game, but I don't think a scum player there would break the "lmao this is so funny that you're tunnelling me" spiel so quickly. I think these are things scum are more interested in keeping consistent.
I don't have any experience with Rondo's scum game in specific, but I don't get the sense that he'd be particularly interested in keeping things consistent as scum; he seems like a bit of a troll and someone who intentionally does random things for fun, and those seem like part of his personality and would be expressed as either alignment.
I agree with you on the troll part. That is not why I am town leaning him though, as I explain in that post you're quoting tbh

Am I misreading your post? It sounds like you're townreading Rondo for being inconsistent, when I think he'd be inconsistent as either alignment.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:30 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:42 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:39 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:48 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:43 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:41 am Ah! An interesting conundrum! *Sits up from study and lifts paper to light*

Seanzie, can be scum in this scenario. When given the opportunity to expand thinking, a joke reply was given not even considering alternatives to the action of voting me.

EnderWiggin I do not have enough data on, this can be either way.

*Brings the paper back down and stands up, beginning to pace around his study*

Macdougall however intrigues me the most here. I do believe that Mac has a good read on me, but is either wrong or is wolf. I do wonder if town Mac pushes on me in effort to solve, but the fervor I see does not seem to indicate that this is in fact fishing. Yes, Mac who is good at reading me, I do not feel would commit this hard to a scum read on me at this point. This is potentially Scum Mac. I will review in the morning as it is time for the doctor to get some well deserved rest.

My studies on Jay the all consuming will continue tomorrow.

*Turns off the lights and exits stage left*
So do you think that town Mac should be townreading you for your play prior to this post? If so can you show me the parts where you've towntold to a degree where you'd expect me to notice?
I do not, but I do believe that town Mac would allow for more data before gauging someone he has a track record of reading correctly.

That is what's throwing me off. Your conclusion was drawn far more quickly than I'd expect.

However, the gusto I feel from your posts is in line to how I perceive town Mac. It is quite the contradiction.

Do you, Mac, feel as if your ability to read me has shifted at all in the past year? If so, do you feel it has improved or declined?
Maybe Mac plays differently here, but my expectation of town Mac is that he creates reads by tunnelling a player and looking at what ripples that causes in the thread. Basically going in with a machine gun and "100% sure someone is scum". So your first sentence doesn't really vibe with my experience tbh
I do that sometimes. Not always. You're doing the same thing you did last time we played reading me too one note.

Last time we played, my whole Team was clamouring for your head with the rest of the thread. I stood up for my town read, which ended up correct.

Last time I was town and you scum, I caught you tbh

Perhaps it is "one note" - but why break a winning recipe tbh?

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:30 am**

Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:28 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:22 am @Boquise Run me through the reads you feel the strongest about, please.
Lucy - I think the way she approaches the thread and how she responded to my question on her wall to be alike how she played in her quali.

Seanze - I liked the way they started to form reads early on in D0

Mac - Now this one is a bit difficult. I have a few expectations of Mac when he plays as either alignment (and I have rn a 100% accuracy on reading him as both alignments). Rn I think he is checking off the town boxes. He is a bit tunnelly, but the tunnels help him form reads. Still am a bit wary because I am not used to Mac not being the loudest person in the room.

So plenty of my reads are not "strong" - they are feels. I am trying to replicate how I have read the games as a jury member, and add it to my regular repertoire. Which is to just bookmark things that on a first read feels "good" tbh

Cool, thanks.

What differentiated the way Seanzie formed D0 reads from the way anyone else did? And who do you think outshines Mac in terms of loudness this game? I think he's been plenty loud this game and it's not like he becomes less town if someone else is louder so I wasn't sure what you were getting at there.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:33 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:28 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:23 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:35 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:42 pm Lmao I think it is fun!

I feel like thread state-wise, Rando is rand>town. Aside from being funny, I feel like they have made some tonally townie posts. Example: the one where they talk about AtE, not wanting to omgus Alison, then votes Alison. I am not sure at all how Rando approaches the game, but I don't think a scum player there would break the "lmao this is so funny that you're tunnelling me" spiel so quickly. I think these are things scum are more interested in keeping consistent.
I don't have any experience with Rondo's scum game in specific, but I don't get the sense that he'd be particularly interested in keeping things consistent as scum; he seems like a bit of a troll and someone who intentionally does random things for fun, and those seem like part of his personality and would be expressed as either alignment.
I agree with you on the troll part. That is not why I am town leaning him though, as I explain in that post you're quoting tbh
Am I misreading your post? It sounds like you're townreading Rondo for being inconsistent, when I think he'd be inconsistent as either alignment.

I think his "AtE" post thing is inconsistent, yeah, but not like troll inconsistent. I think that post opened up a window to Rando's actual thoughts and I don't see why he, as scum, would feel the need to do that or even slip up so quickly with it tbh.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:36 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:30 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:28 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:22 am @Boquise Run me through the reads you feel the strongest about, please.
Lucy - I think the way she approaches the thread and how she responded to my question on her wall to be alike how she played in her quali.

Seanze - I liked the way they started to form reads early on in D0

Mac - Now this one is a bit difficult. I have a few expectations of Mac when he plays as either alignment (and I have rn a 100% accuracy on reading him as both alignments). Rn I think he is checking off the town boxes. He is a bit tunnelly, but the tunnels help him form reads. Still am a bit wary because I am not used to Mac not being the loudest person in the room.

So plenty of my reads are not "strong" - they are feels. I am trying to replicate how I have read the games as a jury member, and add it to my regular repertoire. Which is to just bookmark things that on a first read feels "good" tbh
Cool, thanks.

What differentiated the way Seanzie formed D0 reads from the way anyone else did? And who do you think outshines Mac in terms of loudness this game? I think he's been plenty loud this game and it's not like he becomes less town if someone else is louder so I wasn't sure what you were getting at there.

I actually don't know tbh, it was maybe because it looked like he was first and I could vibe with it. Sounded reasonable. JJJ did some reads yea, but Seanzie felt more proactive?

It is more like, I read his posts and was like "mmh yeh this sounds good" whereas most posts don't stick in my brain during the first read tbh.

I think I and Lucy have been louder. It is not really that that will determine his alignment, but I am noticing a small change of thread approach (from my pov at least) and that is something I take note of tbh

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:38 am**

I saw it as him throwing out a line of unverifiable bullshit about how he felt when I attacked him coupled by a lack of convincing emotional followup to that claim, nestled in genuine trolling/chaos generation. I also saw that sequence as opening a window to his actual thoughts, but in a way that looked bad for him.

I'll admit I'm not the best Rondo reader in the world, but I struggle to see how talking nonsense followed by contradicting yourself is something that we should townread someone for. I am setting Rondo aside for now though in deference to Mac's (and yours, I guess) read.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:42 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:53 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:50 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:34 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:30 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:48 pm Alison
Boq
Creature
Dizzy
Jay
Lucy
Rondo
Seanzie

all of the above have actually hit significant town notes I would expect from them...
Oh okay you have them as town now. I am kinda confused on the read progression tbh

Like did I misunderstand or did you not scum read Seanze, Lucy and Alison? What changed?
What a cringe term read progression is lol.

Seanzie i joke voted.
Lucy i just pushed off her entry in an over exaggerated manner.
Alison i thought was sus for pushing Rondo.

I then proceeded to reevaluate based on reading more content.

Why do you need to know why my read changed? Why do people always fixate on my reads changing like it's AI... It's so asinine lol.
It is more that it is a good place to start tbh!
Reads come from somewhere, even if just gut, and asking you about your reads help me solve you, and if I find you to be town, your reads could potentially help me find other town tbh

I notice some defensiveness here Macyboi tbh. I didn't mean it to be "AI".
You just annoy me ever since I read you saying that you don't like how I play. Because you said that and then repeatedly show me evidence that you have no idea how I play and your appraisal of my play is over simplified to a terrible degree.

Well, that's fair tbh. However most people dislike being death tunnelled by a singular player 4-5 games in a row, so

mmh I still have been correct on your alignment every time we have played, so I must be doing something right, but if you prefer it, I can stop giving public reads on you tbh. I don't want to make the game unenjoyable for you tbh!

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:55 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:38 am I saw it as him throwing out a line of unverifiable bullshit about how he felt when I attacked him coupled by a lack of convincing emotional followup to that claim, nestled in genuine trolling/chaos generation. I also saw that sequence as opening a window to his actual thoughts, but in a way that looked bad for him.

I'll admit I'm not the best Rondo reader in the world, but I struggle to see how talking nonsense followed by contradicting yourself is something that we should townread someone for. I am setting Rondo aside for now though in deference to Mac's (and yours, I guess) read.

Mmh I have zero experience with Rando so I am basically running with things I have seen in other games tbh.

Like, a thought people seem to have is that town is consistent and doesnt talk nonsense etc. My feel in general is that "town read" is viewed by several mafia players as a compliment on play. That the town read person is being +ev or something. I expect scum to handle your push differently. But like, that's just expectations from my end

Also, when I first presented my town read on Rando, he asked why I town read them. I replied and he answered with a "hmmmmm". He has then naked voted me.

In a game state where you're starting to become one of the lowest in hierarchy, with people pushing you/disliking your posts, as a wolf it is rare to push the town who is voicing a town read. You either try to be cool with them because emotionally it feels better to have an ally in the thread than risking them to change their read, or you accept that you're dying but could potentially make that town look aligned with you.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:57 am**

Another reason to make an unpopular town read/town reading a fellow "weirdo" is that it causes waves in the thread tbh!

If Rando is town, I am potentially stealing a misyeet from scum. If Rando is scum, I might make him sweet up to me, lower his guard, and it can prompt other town to figure him out!

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:07 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:12 am Mac’s entry into this game might be his most inspired in five years. Town read.

Honestly? That's more wolf indicative of him than when he goes all limp and lazy.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:11 am**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:04 am Nah ur reads are bogus lol.
And you are either of the ten fools or a wolf.

Your read indicates one while behavior hits at the other, I'll place you orange.

I also agree DrWilgy's reads seem pulled out of a hat.

...

Which makes it worse that I agree with a lot of them.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:13 am**

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:23 am
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:19 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:06 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:04 pm america, california

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:03 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:01 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:19 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:15 pm @lucy, in your Discord Mafia experience, could you describe just briefly how that feels? I have never played a chat Mafia game. Is it a continuously torrent pace? Are there breaks in the action? Do players come and go at their leisure, or do they hover over the chat game all day? Hell, how long is a typical day phase in that style?
the best of them are similar-ish to forum mafia except people aren’t reading the actual actions of other players, lots of PR’s and very little reads that aren’t based off NK’s and other deaths/failed tunnels/cop investigations. it’s live chat but also 24/24 where people are talking (not usually about the actual game though) and eventually some reads do occur out of live chatting and they’re voted on until they claim/fake claim, clusterfucks. most people make themselves available to talk for a bit more than once a day, there are breaks in actions. and at the end of the game all the active players are dead and it’s basically a coin toss of who wins because the alive players haven’t played the game closely at all, since they’re alive
@RondoDimBuckle
While I appreciate the link, I meant actual physically. Like I am in Australia and Aussie culture is much different to American/European/Asian
Mmmnnyeah nope. Maybe I am tunneling. I need @EnderWiggin to sort me out
A couple Aussies showed up since this post, did you get the cultural translation you were hoping for?
Negative, Mac told me to do what I want but also soft shields Lucy with his list so that is worth some thought

Hi. Ignore Lucy pls. Find other wolf.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:15 am**

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:39 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:25 am
lucy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:20 am
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:19 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:06 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:04 pm america, california

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:03 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:01 pm

@RondoDimBuckle
While I appreciate the link, I meant actual physically. Like I am in Australia and Aussie culture is much different to American/European/Asian
Mmmnnyeah nope. Maybe I am tunneling. I need @EnderWiggin to sort me out
A couple Aussies showed up since this post, did you get the cultural translation you were hoping for?
he hasn’t, mac didn’t respond
what was i supposed to respond to?
He tagged Ender as a fellow Aussie to help see if he was misreading Lucy's tone..? I'm not entirely sure.

Rondo and I know each other pretty well.

He's tagging me because I have successfully divested him of bad tunnels in the past and he trusts I'm a good reader of the game if I'm town.

He's also probably trying to stuff me in a pocket on the way past but that's every game.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:17 am**

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:50 am I vibe with the discomfort, though. It seems pretty common on MU to offer early reads on the whole player list, which is foreign to me.

Honestly spreading yourself thin to every single player D1 as a responsibility is just a way to burn players out.

But

That's just tea.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:19 am**

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:09 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:03 am
lucy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:02 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:01 am
lucy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:59 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:57 am
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:50 am I vibe with the discomfort, though. It seems pretty common on MU to offer early reads on the whole player list, which is foreign to me.
Speaking for myself, I like making day 1 reads because:

1. It causes people to do shit
2. My ability to make reads doesn't require heaps of content and tbh sometimes it's hindered by it... I would say in the main my reads have an arc curve in terms of accuracy. They start off good, get worse during mid game, and then get good at endgame lol.
mine are exponential, currently 0
Are you holding back from making them or do you genuinely not have any?
latter
What sort of actions or inactions do you consider alignment indicative to a degree that makes you comfortable giving a read?
couldn’t tell you, i heavily psychoanalyze and look for intentions and how wolves would play a scenario. i’m not used to playing no PR games so that’s what i’m at, or games with strangers, i can say i’ll get better. and i can say i am nonetheless accurate. you can ask ender and jjj or iso my 269 messages from the champs game i just played (g7)

If I had to say anything about Lucy's reads it's that she narrows down on reads as the game goes on. I'd be more expecting content from town!Lucy D3ish to start being points where I analyse how she reads and decide if she matches her standard.

I could say D2 but I think D3 is a good standard point.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:19 am**

@Creature still need ya to answer my question, also who was it you wanted to vote during D0?

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:22 am**

Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:25 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:56 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:53 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:50 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:43 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:32 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:41 pm

What's your thoughts on me tbh
Cuter than a cuttlefish.
Oh so I don't make you nervous tbh?
Should you?
Idk tbh, you felt nervous before when we spoke tbh
Uh.

Alright.

Definitely not the impression I had on my emotive state.

Of the people who would actively make me nervous if I was wolf you're behind several names =P (Not a hit on you, but there are people in this game who are semi-familiar with my play and I can't be careless around em.)
Hehe oh well, perhaps it was a power fantasy when I read your answer to my early D0 question tbh

It was supposed to be coy instead of nervous lol

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:25 am**

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:34 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:29 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:27 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:15 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:13 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:45 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:43 pm I have been told by many people about the mythical Creature Spam.

I have yet to see it actually happen.

I think a decent portion of my perspective is derived from recent surfing around MU as I compiled statistics and saw Creature with a million posts in X or Y games. Have you played with him often

Creature definitely posts more as town than scum and had a defeatist persona as scum where he hardly posted. However he has improved a lot during these last years tbh.

Iirc I spearheaded a Creature misyeet in our first game and everyone chastised me on how it was obvious Creature town meta lmao

Creature is a good player and his meta tells both exist and are over exaggerated and not consistently valid.

He is however readable by virtue of other things, mainly what emotions he is exhibiting in the context of what faction is ahead or behind.

I played a game with him recently where the scum was allergic to killing town me and town Alexa out of ego so we stomped them. He was intensely pessimistic the whole time. We exed a mafia every day except for the day that a scum outed to hammer a townie, and he was moaning about how we were doomed as we proceeded to policy the last mafia for making that hammer.

So I dunno that him being sad when his faction is losing is a reliable tell. He seems to be a very pessimistic person to me in general, tbh.

What game?

As if I am a pessimistic person @EnderWiggin I demand you back me up on this. I am relentlessly happy

EBWOP: This is about creature not me. I didnt read up, no ender needed

Counterpoint, Ender always needed.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:33 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:17 am The way I see this game is fairly simple.

Mac and JJJ are both playing to their obvious town power town selves. I think they are very likely just town but even if they are I suspect they are townsiding for now because they are bringing down a lot of unnecessary bad attention if they shove blatantly bad reads down our throat here. So either way their reads are probably going to be good D1.

I am likely going to prioritize hammering on the reads we have in our Venn diagram overlap as those are the most likely to be hits. If we don't get pelts after a bit it will be obvious something is rotten.

As mentioned earlier, I find Boquise, Wilgy and Lucy townie in addition to JJJ and Mac. I am hands off Rondo for now in deference to Mac's read. Nate feels like someone a little out of their depth but trying to do the best he can to be part of the solving which I think is a pretty okay place to be in.

Seanzie has been ~fine. He started off a little weaker than usual but his ISO of me was decent. I wouldn't put him in my town squad but I don't really have interest in a Seanzie exe today.

I interpreted Ender's cryptic approach to Seanzie earlier as a way to fish for reactions with him like he did with JJJ but he hasn't really followed through on that promise which leaves me wondering why he did it. I am also unnerved by how hands-off he is with Rondo, who he knows well and even gave advice on how to read. It's weird that me and Mac have a stronger read on Rondo than the guy who knows him the best.

Loosely, I have a POE pool of Falcon, Creature and Ender. The afks remain null, maybe bump Dizzy a bit higher since he is more shameless about lurking when he is town and feels obligated to try a bit harder as scum.

The fact that I know him best and am not making a read should tell y'all to be more careful.

I actually do think Mac is right for now but Mac's confidence is very strong. I can tell you 100% that Rondo could fake this D1 as wolf, with the caveat that he hasn't wolfed in forum yet and I know he's not 100% confident he can do the same level of fakery first try.

But that being said he's very capable of it irl so benefit of the doubt means I'm wary to trust anything I'm not confident is town indicative of him.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:34 am**

I'm now 99% sure Boq is town.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:36 am**

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:37 am**

The fact that this game feels easy means it probably isn't.

but anyway

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:37 am**

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:33 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:17 am The way I see this game is fairly simple.

Mac and JJJ are both playing to their obvious town power town selves. I think they are very likely just town but even if they are I suspect they are townsiding for now because they are bringing down a lot of unnecessary bad attention if they shove blatantly bad reads down our throat here. So either way their reads are probably going to be good D1.

I am likely going to prioritize hammering on the reads we have in our Venn diagram overlap as those are the most likely to be hits. If we don't get pelts after a bit it will be obvious something is rotten.

As mentioned earlier, I find Boquise, Wilgy and Lucy townie in addition to JJJ and Mac. I am hands off Rondo for now in deference to Mac's read. Nate feels like someone a little out of their depth but trying to do the best he can to be part of the solving which I think is a pretty okay place to be in.

Seanzie has been ~fine. He started off a little weaker than usual but his ISO of me was decent. I wouldn't put him in my town squad but I don't really have interest in a Seanzie exe today.

I interpreted Ender's cryptic approach to Seanzie earlier as a way to fish for reactions with him like he did with JJJ but he hasn't really followed through on that promise which leaves me wondering why he did it. I am also unnerved by how hands-off he is with Rondo, who he knows well and even gave advice on how to read. It's weird that me and Mac have a stronger read on Rondo than the guy who knows him the best.

Loosely, I have a POE pool of Falcon, Creature and Ender. The afks remain null, maybe bump Dizzy a bit higher since he is more shameless about lurking when he is town and feels obligated to try a bit harder as scum.
The fact that I know him best and am not making a read should tell y'all to be more careful.

I actually do think Mac is right for now but Mac's confidence is very strong. I can tell you 100% that Rondo could fake this D1 as wolf, with the caveat that he hasn't wolfed in forum yet and I know he's not 100% confident he can do the same level of fakery first try.

But that being said he's very capable of it irl so benefit of the doubt means I'm wary to trust anything I'm not confident is town indicative of him.

there are certain quirks I've built in my interactions with Rondo over several games that give me paths to reading him through how he approaches me specifically and those kind of reads are always difficult for other people to trust or even understand.

as best I can explain it... rondo hates the idea of me being able to read him well because he's very afraid of being the dumb townie who just gets pocketed and I've had several games where I correctly townread him while most of the thread including mafia tried to get him over. in each game he never treated me like a clear and exhibited paranoia of being pocketed. I think he could fake it but I don't think it's very likely that he could do so in a way that fools me.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:40 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:37 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:33 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:17 am The way I see this game is fairly simple.

Mac and JJJ are both playing to their obvious town power town selves. I think they are very likely just town but even if they are I suspect they are townsiding for now because they are bringing down a lot of unnecessary bad attention if they shove blatantly bad reads down our throat here. So either way their reads are probably going to be good D1.

I am likely going to prioritize hammering on the reads we have in our Venn diagram overlap as those are the most likely to be hits. If we don't get pelts after a bit it will be obvious something is rotten.

As mentioned earlier, I find Boquise, Wilgy and Lucy townie in addition to JJJ and Mac. I am hands off Rondo for now in deference to Mac's read. Nate feels like someone a little out of their depth but trying to do the best he can to be part of the solving which I think is a pretty okay place to be in.

Seanzie has been ~fine. He started off a little weaker than usual but his ISO of me was decent. I wouldn't put him in my town squad but I don't really have interest in a Seanzie exe today.

I interpreted Ender's cryptic approach to Seanzie earlier as a way to fish for reactions with him like he did with JJJ but he hasn't really followed through on that promise which leaves me wondering why he did it. I am also unnerved by how hands-off he is with Rondo, who he knows well and even gave advice on how to read. It's weird that me and Mac have a stronger read on Rondo than the guy who knows him the best.

Loosely, I have a POE pool of Falcon, Creature and Ender. The afks remain null, maybe bump Dizzy a bit higher since he is more shameless about lurking when he is town and feels obligated to try a bit harder as scum.
The fact that I know him best and am not making a read should tell y'all to be more careful.

I actually do think Mac is right for now but Mac's confidence is very strong. I can tell you 100% that Rondo could fake this D1 as wolf, with the caveat that he hasn't wolfed in forum yet and I know he's not 100% confident he can do the same level of fakery first try.

But that being said he's very capable of it irl so benefit of the doubt means I'm wary to trust anything I'm not confident is town indicative of him.
there are certain quirks I've built in my interactions with Rondo over several games that give me paths to reading him through how he approaches me specifically and those kind of reads are always difficult for other people to trust or even understand.

as best I can explain it... rondo hates the idea of me being able to read him well because he's very afraid of being the dumb townie who just gets pocketed and I've had several games where I correctly townread him while most of the thread including mafia tried to get him over. in each game he never treated me like a clear and exhibited paranoia of being pocketed. I think he could fake it but I don't think it's very likely that he could do so in a way that fools me.

I will say that I know he's expressed annoyance in previous games that you have correctly read him so I'll pay your read.

But that being said in irl I was burned by doing exactly this so I'm not 100% confident on this.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:41 am**

something tells me that if I'm wrong about Rondo it won't matter lol

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:02 am**

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:22 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:21 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:16 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:13 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:09 pm [VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine
Interesting choice. Got one and a half reasons why?
I got one half and a handful of pocket lint, that work?
Yes, but for other purposes.

Why fingers? She's not joined the game, and you didn't tag her
I'm not going to lie, for some reason I thought she'd made one post and dipped.

Which apparently isn't true.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

@fingersplints Hi, hello, read up and see watcha think

I did make one post and dip. It’s called sleep. Some of you should try it lol

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:04 am**

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:24 pm
fingersplints wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:21 pm Oh cool this game has started. Hello all
hello, d0, what's up?

Nice to meet you, and I hope you enjoy your Syndicate experience.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:16 am**

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:09 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:03 am @Dyslexicon Two things

1) What is your favourite kind of burrito
B) What is your game state read?
%) If you had a vig who is gone and why?
@fingersplints and @Marmot same question.
Spoiler: show
(Fingersplints cant say me just calling it ahead of time)

1) I don’t usually eat burritos. I like things spicy and with lots of cheese though
B) only read my mentions so far, so nothing sticking out to me
%) I actually wouldn’t have picked you lol My gut would say falcon but as they are leading right now that would be a waste.
Probably Alison. I don’t think I’m particularly good at reading her so she can fool me easily into thinking she is town with her usual analytical tone. Maybe someone else I can’t read well. Like wilgy or marmot whose game style is difficult for me to read

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:25 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:52 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:59 pm Alison looks towny, JJJ looks towny

Sean's a wolf
This post is scummy for Falcon... these reads are agenda laden regardless of what Alison and Jay's alignment is (can be t/w or t/t).

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:07 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:00 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:59 pm Alison looks towny, JJJ looks towny

Sean's a wolf
why why why
It's how I'm reading your playstyle, your vibes.

t's the approach Alison has, her posting has a questioning solvey method, that doesn't feel like it's pushing an agenda. You have a similar feel, like you're working on solving the game.

Sean feels...stiff, awkward.
words... that mean nothing

What really did it was his spree of just asking aimless questions of why people had the reads they had that I can already see he has no intent in following up on lol.

eg., town Falcon doesn't give a shit about why EnderWiggin would vote Fingersplints lol.

Town falcon pretty much always talks about/suspects me early. Him noticing and commenting on a vote of me isn’t at all surprising to me if he were town

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:28 am**

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:11 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:57 am
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:50 am I vibe with the discomfort, though. It seems pretty common on MU to offer early reads on the whole player list, which is foreign to me.
Speaking for myself, I like making day 1 reads because:

1. It causes people to do shit
2. My ability to make reads doesn't require heaps of content and tbh sometimes it's hindered by it... I would say in the main my reads have an arc curve in terms of accuracy. They start off good, get worse during mid game, and then get good at endgame lol.
Yeah. I guess I'm pro-"day 1 reads", anti-"day 1 reads for the sake of having a read". It can be difficult to tell the difference between a read that feels fake because a wolf is trying to appear uninformed, and a read that feels fake because a townie felt like they should have an opinion and came up with something.

I consistently fall into the category of townie feeling forced to post day 1 despite not having solid suspicions. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, but I really admire all of you who are able to come up with this stuff right away for sake of discussion. Takes me days to get into a game.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:15 am**

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:07 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:12 am Mac’s entry into this game might be his most inspired in five years. Town read.
Honestly? That's more wolf indicative of him than when he goes all limp and lazy.

Is that your current read on Mac?

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:19 am**

I always appreciate having fingersplints in a game these days. For her more than any other, it’s a perspective and a vibe from the increasingly distant Syndicate past transplanted into a very different new-age site meta.

I have no read on splints here, just musing wistfully. She will get involved her own way given time if she is town.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:25 am**

I like the general direction of the game thread to this point. The moving dialogues feel healthy for solving, and we’re in a decent place.

This provides me with the capacity to take on a more deliberate analysis of the game, and I think it’s necessary in mountainous. The current gamestate feels fine for most iterations of towns in Mafia, but the difficulty level is elevated here. We have to use every tool to overcome the mountainous handicap. I’m going to start building a more complete game theory.

Y’all just keep doing what you’re doing. I appreciate the continuous flow of ammunition.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:26 am**

@fingersplints do you have an initial impression of me

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:34 am**

I am considering the exchanges between DrWilgy and Mac, and I have a vague concern.

The overall message of Wilgy’s read on Mac seems to slant positive. Indeed, my impression of that read is: Mac looks town except for his suspicion of me. There’s a resistance to rattling cages in that — one could argue Mac’s cage is being rattled, but only in response to receiving rattling from him. If Wilgy is mafia, here’s the rough translation:

Mac is town, too town for me to fully attack, but I have to at least do something about his correct read on me

I’m not sure I view the hedging as authentic

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:41 am**

I observe three players right now that I would place in the same descriptive basket: often high-activity posters and currently not at all active

Marmot, Dizzy, and Creature

Among them, Creature continues to stand out to me. I may or may not have the right impression of Creature’s meta, but his engagement to this point is concerning regardless. It’s non-zero but still minimal, so it’s not total abject slanking.

Marmot and Dizzy have done nearly nothing at all. They can sit in my POE accordingly, albeit at maximum null. This is neither town nor mafia indicative for them in my eyes. They’ll likely show up yet anyway

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am**

@RondoDimBuckle, as I look over your posts, I find myself pretty confounded to follow the threads of your reads. That doesn't mean there isn't a thread, or that there isn't a method to your madness -- but if there's a method I cannot parse it. Would you be able to put together a reads list of some kind (with or without explanations, whatever, just some kind of sorting of the roster)?

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:05 am**

If I had to provide a GTH sorting of the game by a seven-player POE, this is about where I'd fall right now:

Alison
Boquise
lucy
MacDougall
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie
NateTheLesser

---[POE LINE]---

Creature
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
falcon45ca
fingersplints
Marmot

Names within groups aren't ordered. Not every name above the line is a confident one (e.g., Nate is an undeveloped read, but I give him the gut read nod). EnderWiggin is another challenge that I could stand to develop with an ISO.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:08 am**

Ok I will start playing now

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:09 am**

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:08 am Ok I will start playing now

I couldn't be more stoked

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:13 am**

I think my single most confident read in the game right now is that Boquise is town.

Rondo let's talk about your vote. Maybe make that a point of emphasis whenever you answer my previous prod about your reads

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:16 am**

I'll be in the lab today. I think I'll do some ISOs instead of my job

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 am**

Aw shit it didn't work

The Syndicate

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