Pandas vs Trash Pandas [Day 7]

[Spacedaisy]

Neither is pointing out you could just as easily read my ISO. I don't have detailed notes or a memorized case, I didn't go back to discuss this because I a trying to work. I shouldn't even be posting right now. I have to work until 5:30 in the morning so I can have a decent pay check this week and pay my bills. I would have to go back and refresh myself on everything Creature said that pinged. I don't have time for that right now.

The big things that do stick out in my head is the fact that Day Creature had 29 posts, of which 19 were mech discussion posts. Then at the end of the day he bemoaned that today was such a bust because all people talked about was mech and the wolves can hide in mech talk. Despite the fact that he was one of the driving forces of that conversation.

I also recall feeling like when NAA and Marmot were took out, it was likely an opportunity for the wolves to try and come in and control conversation. I waited because I wanted to see who seemed to come charging in. The two who came in were Creature and DDL. Creature also came in with wall posts reads. I didn't care for the look, but not something by itself that was bad.

I cannot fathom why anyone would have thought Dizzy bad. There is no world in which a wolf makes the post he did. It makes literally no sense to believe that he was wolf. Yet Creature and DDL were on him. It was beyond me, and the only reason I can see that someone would do it is because they would want to keep as many question marks out there as possible.

Honestly, I'm shocked I wasn't targeted last night after what you said. And I don't get why Dizzy was killed, because I was the only person who seemed confident he was town.

Beyond those thoughts, I can't recall particulars. It would require another ISO and I just feel like focusing on other things at this point. Now, I am going to go throw myself into work for like 8 hours. Catch you guys sometime tomorrow.

Glgl

Ftr literally this post is all I was after lol, that or a link. I don't really have time or energy to dig through ISOs this evening.

<3 Seems like we both were coming from the same place btw. Also, I frequently come across angrier than I actually am. No hard feelings I hope.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

No no none at all, takes much more than that for me to have genuine hard feelings!

[Spacedaisy]

My PoE at the moment is basically anyone outside of me, Guillo and Nook.

I have a slight town lean on Urist.

I have no read at all on Wilgy.

I have a fluctuating read on falcon so I'd say slight wolf lean.

I don't trust Creature or DDL.

If the shot was in my hands I would shoot DDL.

This all comes with no ISOs yet. I'm about to get sleep now, so I will go ahead and vote on DDL at the moment, but it could still change before the shot gets taken, I'm not sure.

[Spacedaisy]

Oh, almost forgot. [VOTE: DDL] aubergine

[Spacedaisy]

Wow, what a spread. This is interesting.

[DrWilgy]

Falcon Wolf. 100%.

Wilgy Wolf. 100%

(I actually have no read on you but i wanted you to see how unhelpful reads like this are unhelpful).

Why is Falcon a wolf, sell me on it.

Meta. This game. Lack of force. No presence. Read ISO.

[falcon45ca]

Okay. This kill surprises me.

Wolfy.

Falcon. Give me your top 3 scum, who you’d shoot today?

Space Daisy, Creature, Urist and Wilgy



I figure 4 is better than 3, and I feel there's at least 2 Maf in that POE

[falcon45ca]

Falcon Wolf. 100%.

Wilgy Wolf. 100%

(I actually have no read on you but i wanted you to see how unhelpful reads like this are unhelpful).

Why is Falcon a wolf, sell me on it.

Meta. This game. Lack of force. No presence. Read ISO.

This game has largely been a speed run, and as I'm not a high volume poster by nature, it's been harder to get into my groove.


This just reads like an opportunistic wolf trying to leverage a less aggressive town slot into a ML


[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

[Guillotine]

My PoE at the moment is basically anyone outside of me, Guillo and Nook.

I have a slight town lean on Urist.

I have no read at all on Wilgy.

I have a fluctuating read on falcon so I'd say slight wolf lean.

I don't trust Creature or DDL.

If the shot was in my hands I would shoot DDL.

This all comes with no ISOs yet. I'm about to get sleep now, so I will go ahead and vote on DDL at the moment, but it could still change before the shot gets taken, I'm not sure.

I dont see DDL being a wolf tbh.

Creature is a rollercoaster with an ISO mix of scummy and townie posts.

I dont know about Wilgy, Nanook will have to shoot blindly there if he shoots there.

Urist has been death tunneling me without any reason and so has Creature but at least creature is not afraid to speak his mind about everything else, i dont remember much from Urist.
Why is he town?

[Guillotine]

Falcon Wolf. 100%.

Wilgy Wolf. 100%

(I actually have no read on you but i wanted you to see how unhelpful reads like this are unhelpful).

Why is Falcon a wolf, sell me on it.

Meta. This game. Lack of force. No presence. Read ISO.

I dont see the meta part. Everything else i can see it but so i can see it for you, so i need specifics Wilgy.

[Guillotine]

Okay. This kill surprises me.

Wolfy.

Falcon. Give me your top 3 scum, who you’d shoot today?

Space Daisy, Creature, Urist and Wilgy



I figure 4 is better than 3, and I feel there's at least 2 Maf in that POE

Let;s kill Urist.

[Guillotine]

I have to decide my vote (and hope it matters to Nanook) in less than 3 hours. I dont have the time the rest of you got, interact with me.

[Guillotine]

If Creature or Urist could vote Daisy for a full spread that'd be a cool screen shot to take lol.

[Guillotine]

[VOTE: Spacedaisy] aubergine

You know what gets me about you? You went one about mechanics. Then you turned around and said you thought talking mechanics was a way mafia was hiding (after nearly 2/3 of your posts were about mechanics). And now you are saying you want to lynch someone who wasn't all about mechanics. You are shady as hell my friend.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

P.S. Not being mechanics minded and not being math minded are two different things. I was engaged in the mechanics conversation. I deferred in the end to someone who is math minded.

One can pretty much talk about mechanics yet recognize wolves' easiest thing to do is talk about mechanics.

Yeah and what you did was complain that there was so much mech talk (you called it sad) and implied it was a bust and his wolves. Completely overlooking your own role in it. I don’t believe you.

In fact, if I am right about Guillo and wrong about both DDL and Creature, that leaves us with falcon, Urist, and Wilgy.

I don't think I am wrong about both DDL and Creature. I would be shocked if at least one of these two was not wolf. The way DDL flipped on his read of Creature makes me prefer to see him shot today. I'll ISO later.. I have like an hour and a half left and only took a break for a few minutes from work.

Yah i remember WTFing to Creature about that, it didnt make sense at the time, but we can be hypocrites sometimes, in fact townies show hypocrisy a lot more than wolves because wolves worry about not looking bad.

I will not sheep you on DDL but maybe we can take a deeper look at those 3 names i bolded? Specially Urist, whom you town lean now? I wanna see what makes you town read Urist because they give me scummy vibes.

[DrWilgy]

Falcon Wolf. 100%.

Wilgy Wolf. 100%

(I actually have no read on you but i wanted you to see how unhelpful reads like this are unhelpful).

Why is Falcon a wolf, sell me on it.

Meta. This game. Lack of force. No presence. Read ISO.

This game has largely been a speed run, and as I'm not a high volume poster by nature, it's been harder to get into my groove.


This just reads like an opportunistic wolf trying to leverage a less aggressive town slot into a ML


[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Normal. Strong opinions. Question based hunting. Confident reads. Finds patterns.

This. Lack of force. No movement. Solving more absent.

[Guillotine]

Guillotine is mafia

Naked accusation

LOL

Get wrecked Michelle, don't ever say that I don't have a god read on you.

Also, @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME it took me gaslighting you to finally sheep me on my scum reads, if I knew that is how you roll I would have done it before.

By the way.. I holstered my doctor shots last night so I might or might not self protect tonight.

Now, let's kill [VOTE: Hollowkatt] aubergine shall we? The guy tried to pocket me yesterday and defended Michelle when I asked him to vote her with me.

Why did I ask him specifically? Because Hollowkatt knew this wolf tell from Michelle and town!hollowkatt would have supported my push on her.

Don't claim your shots.

Who says im not lying.

It doesn't matter. Just don't claim.

So you are saying im town now?

I'm saying if you are town, don't claim.

Urist TMIs me tiwn here.

If some/most of you guys could give four person POEs, that would be super helpful for me to organize how everyone is viewing the game. Or your confident lock town reads, either is helpful. Tyty.

the problem with giving a public PoE is that it tells the mafia whether they should gamble on a nanook shot tonight.

Nanook attempts to get consensus reads and Urist shuts it down.

Fun fact: this post counts toward the five post minimum per day, even though it has no content!

LAMISW

Do I follow logic, the dumbest of dumb reads, or consensus?

Weigh in in the comments and don't forget to like and subscribe

we're at even numbers so the correct play is to vote sleep

Two NKs lol

it's ok i have two protects we good

Wolves don't have protects. I got four and im the scum slayer, we gucci.

[Guillotine]

19 of Urist posts (yes i counted them) were about engineering a plan to protect Nanook based on math that so far has not work for shit to get us to an advantageous point and other mech. We are at lylo! The other half has been saying mafia without anything to back it up. Urist is a wolf!

I say this with 70% confidence because i've tunneled scummy townies before but i would yolo a shot there. Call me biased all you want.

[Guillotine]

The only good thing Urist has done is make the poll count a perfect spread for the screen shot, thanks! (Pocket not accepted).

[Guillotine]

Urist is scared, they are avoiding me like a leper.

[Urist]

i don't have any reason to interact with you, nanook said yesterday that he had you in a 50-50 with dizzy so i'm assuming he's just shooting you today.

[Guillotine]

i don't have any reason to interact with you, nanook said yesterday that he had you in a 50-50 with dizzy so i'm assuming he's just shooting you today.

Ooooh that is why Dizzy was killed then, to set me up for his shot lol.

This is TMI from you my friend, was this your plan? To manipulate Nanook into shooting me? Bruh, im not chop material, im night kill material, i fuck with scum's plans and Nanook has seen me doing it too many times to not know that this is town me.

[VOTE: Urist] aubergine

[Guillotine]

Now im gonna go to work knowing i caught two wolves in this game.

Adiós

[falcon45ca]

Falcon Wolf. 100%.

Wilgy Wolf. 100%

(I actually have no read on you but i wanted you to see how unhelpful reads like this are unhelpful).

Why is Falcon a wolf, sell me on it.

Meta. This game. Lack of force. No presence. Read ISO.

This game has largely been a speed run, and as I'm not a high volume poster by nature, it's been harder to get into my groove.


This just reads like an opportunistic wolf trying to leverage a less aggressive town slot into a ML


[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Normal. Strong opinions. Question based hunting. Confident reads. Finds patterns.

This. Lack of force. No movement. Solving more absent.

No movement is a false narrative, and as I've mentioned already the speed run aspect of this game is affecting my typical solve approach.


What about my opinions this game feels weak to you? Cuz your read on me is as contrived as your posting gimmick

[Guillotine]

Will wolves ever learn that attempting to mischop me is bad for their health?

Urist reminds me of Dyachei in GoC, exactly the same play. Lurker, sucks up to Nanook and expects town to deliver my head. It worked for Dyachei because the pool was big, it wax four players that needed to be chopped, but Mac, TSP and Dyachei themselves had to pretty much out themselves to do it because they were afraid of my screamer claim.

Urist is making the same play as Dya in that game here.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME i got us another one.

[Urist]

yeah sorry i just had a c-section, can't play much.

[Creature]

yeah sorry i just had a c-section, can't play much.

Congratulations on your baby

[Creature]

Just finished my exam.

Still have to study for another, but I should be freer now at least.

[Creature]

In my opinion we're all pretty pretty lost and all over the place here and town has a better chance if NANOOK do it by themselves rather than listen to a thread with three openwolves among four confused town. Everybody else who is town here should show why they're town to make it easier for NANOOK to decide who to shoot.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I'm feeling poorly today so gonna shoot close to eod.

[Creature]

ftr I no longer townread DDL and think he could be wolf. I'm not sure if I have any strong leaning read right now. Spacedaisy is the best read I have rn because I believe she isn't really trying to be influential at all.

[Spacedaisy]

ftr I no longer townread DDL and think he could be wolf. I'm not sure if I have any strong leaning read right now. Spacedaisy is the best read I have rn because I believe she isn't really trying to be influential at all.

Clarify please. You’re reading me wolf or town?

[Spacedaisy]

I'm feeling poorly today so gonna shoot close to eod.

I’m glad. I haven’t been awake long, and I’m about to go to dinner so that will let me do ISOs when I get back.

[Creature]

ftr I no longer townread DDL and think he could be wolf. I'm not sure if I have any strong leaning read right now. Spacedaisy is the best read I have rn because I believe she isn't really trying to be influential at all.

Clarify please. You’re reading me wolf or town?

Town. Sorry for not specifying.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

ftr I no longer townread DDL and think he could be wolf. I'm not sure if I have any strong leaning read right now. Spacedaisy is the best read I have rn because I believe she isn't really trying to be influential at all.

The pocketing has failed?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Funny, I knew you were going to flip when I decided to vote for you.

[Creature]

Guess this is going to be the most boring LyLo loss ever.

[Creature]

I hate this gamestate so much and I wished I could just get out of it some way that doesn't involve losing the game.

[Creature]

I'm feeling poorly today so gonna shoot close to eod.

If you're still unsure, rand a number between 1 and 7:

1 - Creature
2 - Dragon D. Luffy
3 - DrWilgy
4 - falcon
5 - Guillotine
6 - Spacedaisy
7 - Urist

43% chance we get a wolf and then we can start working from there
57% chance we just lose

[Creature]

This gamestate is terrible so I don't blame you if you get it wrong.

[Creature]

I have a feeling at least one of the wolves knows fingersplints fairly well to kill them N1. I think falcon, DrWilgy, Urist and I don't know fingersplints well enough. Of course that doesn't mean we're all town but would point towards one of the wolves being among DDL/Guillo/Space assuming they all know fingersplints enough to choose killing them N1.

[Creature]

I have a feeling at least one of the wolves knows fingersplints fairly well to kill them N1. I think falcon, DrWilgy, Urist and I don't know fingersplints well enough. Of course that doesn't mean we're all town but would point towards one of the wolves being among DDL/Guillo/Space assuming they all know fingersplints enough to choose killing them N1.

Nvm, I might be wrong as I saw fingersplints play some games with falcon and DrWilgy. fingersplints just struck me as a player that could be potentially an oldschooler and so someone might have suggested killing them N1 as a mildly strong town player.

[Spacedaisy]

Alright, I've looked over to Guillo to see if I may feel differently about him. Here is what I've got:

First, on Day 1 there were so many mistakes. Just so many. I get he could be a wolf faking them. But some of them just would even open him up to suspicion rather than getting him a town read. Specifically where he put forward a plan that would sacrifice Nook, which would result in an immediate loss, but didn't seem to realize that. I don't doubt Guillo's ability to lie here, I just get a genuine vibe from these.

I would never kill fingersplint if I was a wolf, I would kill me, I would kill DDL if they are town, Dyslexicon if they are town or at the very least a loud voice. That kill was simply a doc dodge, but that's good because those slots like that are PoE so the wolves are helping us box them in with those kills.

GOOD JOB TRASH PANDAS! GOOD JOB! I Approve lol.

This post looks civ to me. The thing in this game is that they don't have to convince the most people, they have to convince one person. And they have literally no real tangible influence in Nook's decision. So this game even more than others, I think the wolves need to keep us from whittling down the PoE. Because otherwise, they are a higher risk that Nook taking a shot in the dark will hit one of them. The fact that Guillo recognized it was a doc a dodge, called it that and moved on looks Civ to me. Because I think that trying to paint it as some calculated kill for a reason is silly. It was N1, there were hardly a lot of hard suspicions out there. Splints was quiet enough that she likely wouldn't be protected or hard town read by anyone so she would be a safer kill for them. This seemed really straightforward to me. Guillo obviously thought the same, and I like that look on him because it doesn't look like a wolf trying to draw connections to anyone they can.

We aren't making decisions at the end of the day other than where and when to protect. It's not on us specifically to "remove" another player from the game.

I keep forgetting that my vote is worth a damn in this game and that the only thing that wolves have to do in this game is to pocket Nanook and doc dodge every night.

But I think Michelle is in her wolf meta, how long has it been since the game started? 20 hours? with only 4 posts? Michelle has a post volume wolf tell, I remember I had to bus her for it in Spider-verse because others knew about it and knew I knew about it and I would look suspicious if I didn't bring it up. It's how Mac and I keep catching her at Mafia Universe. I think Nanook knows about this too but knowing him, he will probably let her live just because I'm sussing her but mark my words, I host a lot for her and her town meta vs her wolf meta difference is that STARK!

Given the flip, this is a town look.

Alright, I'm not quoting more, I feel pretty confident in my read of Guillo.

The things I mentioned above, plus the fact he has a high degree of OMGUS suspicions (not all, but the majority), and the fact he has tunneled so hard. All of these would not be beneficial to a wolf in this set up, I don't believe. And they read very town to me.

Guillo is town.

[Spacedaisy]

Urist next

Mech talk can be easily faked. But Urist came up the only plan with a high enough degree of random element to make it very difficult for the wolves to predict or manipulate it. This is a good look as opposed to some who proposed plans that would go through our protects very quickly, even though they look safer. Because of this plan, I suspect some of us are still holding a good number protections.

Rethinking this. It might not be worth trying to save anyone other than Nanook. In terms of actual value gained by saving other people, we would need 3 successful saves in order to increase our number of miselims from two to three.

Given this, I'm tempted to say we should just do the d3 method because it's prob the only one everyone will be able to understand.

This post does not look as good. It effectively says don't protect anyone but Nook. Allowing all the wolf nightkills to be successful if we were to follow this. This is a wolf look.

No. No claims ever.
If you tell the truth then the mafia can kill the people who haven't saved yet.
If you lie you're liable to be miseliminated for it and it doesn't help town anyway.

This insistence against claiming is a good look. The less information the wolves can take in about the protections we use the better. Even lying probably isn't worth it.

i think the only fair way to do this is to kill people alphabetically.

Was this a joke?

Sorry, but this is objectively false, Nanook has the gun. LOL

And he has no way of making informed decisions unless people post and participate.

Also if you are gonna just spend the game quoting people and telling them "lol all you said don't matter since you don't have the gun", I'll just ignore you because that isn't useful and isn't funny.

My point isn't that your opinion doesn't matter, it's that... Assume Urist knows he's not getting shot, his posting so that people can read him better is really meaningless.

And you think he knows that because... ?

nanook knows my meta well enough to townread me here so posting more than the bare minimum just makes the thread more difficult to read.

I hadn't felt like Urist was being difficult before and was confused why DDL felt like Urist was, but I can see it here. This is not a town look. Conversation about suspicions is a good thing.

If some/most of you guys could give four person POEs, that would be super helpful for me to organize how everyone is viewing the game. Or your confident lock town reads, either is helpful. Tyty.

the problem with giving a public PoE is that it tells the mafia whether they should gamble on a nanook shot tonight.

Ah, this seems to be a difference in play approach to the setup. I don't agree with this decision though. I can see why people think it's bad. However... I think it is more likely town. The more town can get suspicion, even mild suspicion on more people, the better. That said, I still think discussing our suspicions is good for the sake of nanook making a more informed decision.

But yeah I'm likely shooting dizzy today since they never showed back up

i doubt dizzy is scum tho

Town look. Wolves are going to be more interested in finding suspects rather than looking for town. Could be TMI I suppose, but it would make no sense for Urist to kill him after this. I mean honestly the dizzy kill still baffles me in general. But I don't know.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME i'm pretty sure ddl & wilgy are town, so if you're right about spacedaisy then the scumteam is just guillotine, creature and falcon.

I'd be interested to know why you think DDL is town.

I don't overall feel like Urist has moved on my list either, I don't see them as lock town or anything, but it's slight town read. The hardest part to overlook is the post about protecting others. It read like Urist didn't thnk we should use protects on anyone but Nook and that could lose us the game I think considering the tactic they are taking. That is what keeps this from being a solid townread.

[Spacedaisy]

Falcon

When I read the quick vote on DDL, followed up by the response he got from DDL, my first thought was is this distancing?

But what I find interesting in that exchange is that falcon doesn't even acknowledge what DDL was saying about him. That seems odd to me. it reads like someone who doesn't want to attract attention to themself.

Then I read on and realized that falcon hasn't really contributed a lot. Like... he asks a question of someone once in a while, usually generic like, "what do you think of this person?" or "who do you suspect?" But then falcon only lists suspects with no real reason to suspect any of them. Even weirder is pairing me and Creature as teammates.

I would definitely leave falcon in my PoE and would even say this is a wolf read.

The question is, if falcon is bad what might that say about DDl? Just something to ponder.

[Spacedaisy]

Wilgy

Wilgy doesn't ever make reading him easy, that's for sure, lol.

I have felt for most of the game that I don't have a solid reason to remove him from the PoE and left him in for lack of a reason not to. And I was afraid to let him pocket me because he was sheeping me early in the game. However, now having read falcon, I feel like Wilgy is actually offering something insightful despite his gimmick. I would move him to a slight town read. Still not eliminated from my PoE, but I'd probably be looking somewhere else for the shot today.

[Spacedaisy]

DDL

I didn't like the way he approached falcon. And the fact the only response falcon gave him was a joke, but DDL treated it so seriously. It just felt like a real reach to me.

I don’t remember what we did mech wise last time, but I think it worked-ish. Except Nut shot the wrong people.

I think maybe we coordinated enough to have the shooter covered, and then could rogue protect likely other targets of it felt necessary.

Scum won by shooting nutella on n7 so clearly it didn't work lol
I don't think you came up with a system in the last game.

I mean they won because town misyeeted almost every time. They were going to hit nutella sooner or later, it was just a matter of making town use all their resources.

Iirc maybe nutella could have survived a day longer depending on luck, but at that point, it was mainly on town for letting the situation get that risky to begin with.

So yeah we don't win this game just by keeping nanook alive, we have to take down mafia before they kill all our doctors.

That is a town look right there.

He also did point out early on that Sig was probably his normal town meta. This could be because he knows, but it looks more natural to me. Also a town look.

It looks as thought DDL flip flopped back and forth on Creature throughout the game. That is a town look I think as well.

He also did come in saying Michelle looked bad as well. In fact, the shot came only two minutes after DDL posted that. I have to think that had some influence whether or not he expected it would. It is a town look.

Yeah... I think that read through has changed my mind completely on DDL.

I'd move him up to a town read even I think.

[Spacedaisy]

Alright, to recap, here is my trust list in order from top (person I'd be least likely to shoot if I were Nook) to bottom (someone I would shoot most quickly if I were Nook)

Guillo
DDL
Wilgy
Urist
Creature
falcon

I'm moving my vote to [VOTE: falcon] aubergine

[Guillotine]

yeah sorry i just had a c-section, can't play much.

Are you for real? or is this a reference to Dyachei having a baby while GoC was running?

(If for real, congratulations! I hope you recover soon and enjoy the company of that special little someone).

[Guillotine]

I'm feeling poorly today so gonna shoot close to eod.

That's great news! I mean the shooting close to EoD not that you are feeling poorly.

ftr I no longer townread DDL and think he could be wolf. I'm not sure if I have any strong leaning read right now. Spacedaisy is the best read I have rn because I believe she isn't really trying to be influential at all.

Explain it like I'm five years old, how is not being influential alignment indicative?

[Guillotine]

I have a feeling at least one of the wolves knows fingersplints fairly well to kill them N1. I think falcon, DrWilgy, Urist and I don't know fingersplints well enough. Of course that doesn't mean we're all town but would point towards one of the wolves being among DDL/Guillo/Space assuming they all know fingersplints enough to choose killing them N1.

I got no idea who fingersplints is and is not like they made a mark in this game either.