Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://mafiathesyndicate.com/
I acknowledge a bit of confusion. Poison's day 2 interactions with jack/chop are boggling if they're w/w/w. The poison/syn claim is likewise confounding. If you want to add on Sean having bad arguments too, okay, go for it. Maybe you have a few other areas too. But I think there's no way that that world makes less sense than the things necessary for me to be a wolf here. I would have had no reason, were I a wolf, to sandbag a confirmable claim (by marmot and thread patterns). I would have had no reason to interact with Chop as I did. I wouldn't have 1200 posts and more mech work put into this game than anyone else and be on a wolf team that's still botching claims on like day 7. You'd have an out of tilt kill count. Not even counting the little things, like a kill pattern that seems designed to get me chopped, or Made's claim fiasco, or whatever.
thing one is flat false in general, but I've accepted that in any world you believe itSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:59 pmI wouldn't have resisted an Alison yeet two days in a row if I was a wolf when my scumbuddy was up for a yeet.Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 pmYeah sorry about that if you're town. You're putting way more effort into this game than I am, which is why I feel bad that I'm the one who has to make this decision.Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:43 pmUrist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:41 pm Also because if I vote TSP and he ends up being town I'll feel like a jackass.
But I do think that Nanook had a role cop, and I think that if the scum inventor had given it to him then Made would have just claimed that.
There are a lot of other things as well, including the fact that I don't think Chop v TSP was bussing, Poison's posts were pretty scummy, the KZA shot doesn't make sense from her perspective, TSP has appeared relatively townie the whole game, and Seanzie's arguments today are uninspiring.at least I made arguments. I repped into a hard game to rep into, with a slot that was not set up well and I tried.
Honestly I'm trying to look for reasons for why your slot would be town but I've got nothing. Can you point at anything you've done this game that you wouldn't have done as scum?
I shot down TSP's idea about ending the game yesterday rather than today since F4 is better for scum than F3. If I was a wolf, I would have taken my chances in F4 if it felt like town would have been up for it.
I also pushed hard for claims, which I may not have done as a wolf since the claims helped box scum in.
I also probably wouldn't have cleared Marmot based on balancing if I was a wolf since he was pretty heavily suspected and could have been a mislunch if I hadn't committed to always lunching TSP before Marmot two or three days ago.
And you have?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:12 pm (I'm also slightly disturbed by the fact that sean has done zero evaluation on urist after his like two posts but I don't know how to voice that but I just wanted to see if anyone else noticed it)
Yeah but I've been saying this for six days and you changed your mind very quickly. And I've done more evaluation on Urist than you have today, that's what's weird to meSeanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:18 pmAnd you have?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:12 pm (I'm also slightly disturbed by the fact that sean has done zero evaluation on urist after his like two posts but I don't know how to voice that but I just wanted to see if anyone else noticed it)
Unless there is a viable alternative explanation for the no-kill night, Urist is more-or-less confirmed.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:15 pmGrogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:12 pmI think I know who it is. I need Daisy/sprit targetsMartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:11 pm Interesting. So we got Jack + Sprityo + Urist (potentially) + Kylemii as BoS.
There's one scum in there Imo. Maaaybe 2 but I doubt.
I'm eager to hear @Grogu's claim.Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:12 pmI don’t care about that.MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:11 pmDaisy got replaced by Sprityo.
They claimed Brotherhood of Steel as an alignment.look at that progression
still didn't get an explanation for sean's grogu progression day 7 either which I have read several times and just do not comprehend. check out all of it -- note that he votes for grogu and argues to chop there while simultaneously trying to shift off of itTonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:16 pm like you tell grogu to hardclaim, grogu claims some semblance of information on sprityo, now boom sprityo is most suspcious no further questions.
like you say this and ping urist with a question (which he didn't answer i think but who cares) and have literally not given it a second thought
Thing one isn't false. We lost a mislim chopping someone who was outed, but whom didn't need to be chopped. Since we are in F3 right now with a PoE of 2, that ONE mislim that we lost would have solved the game for us.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:17 pmthing one is flat false in general, but I've accepted that in any world you believe itSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:59 pmI wouldn't have resisted an Alison yeet two days in a row if I was a wolf when my scumbuddy was up for a yeet.Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 pmYeah sorry about that if you're town. You're putting way more effort into this game than I am, which is why I feel bad that I'm the one who has to make this decision.Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:43 pmUrist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:41 pm Also because if I vote TSP and he ends up being town I'll feel like a jackass.
But I do think that Nanook had a role cop, and I think that if the scum inventor had given it to him then Made would have just claimed that.
There are a lot of other things as well, including the fact that I don't think Chop v TSP was bussing, Poison's posts were pretty scummy, the KZA shot doesn't make sense from her perspective, TSP has appeared relatively townie the whole game, and Seanzie's arguments today are uninspiring.
Honestly I'm trying to look for reasons for why your slot would be town but I've got nothing. Can you point at anything you've done this game that you wouldn't have done as scum?
I shot down TSP's idea about ending the game yesterday rather than today since F4 is better for scum than F3. If I was a wolf, I would have taken my chances in F4 if it felt like town would have been up for it.
I also pushed hard for claims, which I may not have done as a wolf since the claims helped box scum in.
I also probably wouldn't have cleared Marmot based on balancing if I was a wolf since he was pretty heavily suspected and could have been a mislunch if I hadn't committed to always lunching TSP before Marmot two or three days ago.
thing two is flat false for you
things three and four are false enough
Yeah well your ISO was long enough that I ran out of steam, and the more I thought about it, the more clear Urist was.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:24 pmlike you say this and ping urist with a question (which he didn't answer i think but who cares) and have literally not given it a second thought
you're wrong on thing oneSeanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:26 pmThing one isn't false. We lost a mislim chopping someone who was outed, but whom didn't need to be chopped. Since we are in F3 right now with a PoE of 2, that ONE mislim that we lost would have solved the game for us.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:17 pmthing one is flat false in general, but I've accepted that in any world you believe itSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:59 pmI wouldn't have resisted an Alison yeet two days in a row if I was a wolf when my scumbuddy was up for a yeet.Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 pmYeah sorry about that if you're town. You're putting way more effort into this game than I am, which is why I feel bad that I'm the one who has to make this decision.Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:43 pmUrist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:41 pm Also because if I vote TSP and he ends up being town I'll feel like a jackass.
But I do think that Nanook had a role cop, and I think that if the scum inventor had given it to him then Made would have just claimed that.
There are a lot of other things as well, including the fact that I don't think Chop v TSP was bussing, Poison's posts were pretty scummy, the KZA shot doesn't make sense from her perspective, TSP has appeared relatively townie the whole game, and Seanzie's arguments today are uninspiring.
Honestly I'm trying to look for reasons for why your slot would be town but I've got nothing. Can you point at anything you've done this game that you wouldn't have done as scum?
I shot down TSP's idea about ending the game yesterday rather than today since F4 is better for scum than F3. If I was a wolf, I would have taken my chances in F4 if it felt like town would have been up for it.
I also pushed hard for claims, which I may not have done as a wolf since the claims helped box scum in.
I also probably wouldn't have cleared Marmot based on balancing if I was a wolf since he was pretty heavily suspected and could have been a mislunch if I hadn't committed to always lunching TSP before Marmot two or three days ago.
thing two is flat false for you
things three and four are false enough
Thing two isn't false? F4 is always better for the wolf than F3? I think it is super suspicious you wanted to end it in F4 btw. Why was that?
"false enough"? What does that even mean? If you don't believe the Marmot thing, why did you say earlier today that you started yesterday thinking about voting Marmot? It sounds like YOU felt he was worth suspecting. Unless I missed something, I was the only one who had put Marmot as reasonably clear. Why would I do that as a wolf? TBH, I would have killed Urist as a wolf last night. I think you only killed Marmot because you knew 1. I had him far above you, and 2. Marmot had expressed that he felt good about my ISO (granted still suspicious of my slot overall), whereas Urist did not express anything good about me yesterday.
So... you think Wolf!me would fare better in F3 without the one person who actually had positive things to say about me yesterday... vs F4 WITH the one person who actually had positive things to say about me yesterday? What?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:30 pmyou're wrong on thing oneSeanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:26 pmThing one isn't false. We lost a mislim chopping someone who was outed, but whom didn't need to be chopped. Since we are in F3 right now with a PoE of 2, that ONE mislim that we lost would have solved the game for us.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:17 pmthing one is flat false in general, but I've accepted that in any world you believe itSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:59 pmI wouldn't have resisted an Alison yeet two days in a row if I was a wolf when my scumbuddy was up for a yeet.Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 pmYeah sorry about that if you're town. You're putting way more effort into this game than I am, which is why I feel bad that I'm the one who has to make this decision.Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:43 pmUrist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:41 pm Also because if I vote TSP and he ends up being town I'll feel like a jackass.
But I do think that Nanook had a role cop, and I think that if the scum inventor had given it to him then Made would have just claimed that.
There are a lot of other things as well, including the fact that I don't think Chop v TSP was bussing, Poison's posts were pretty scummy, the KZA shot doesn't make sense from her perspective, TSP has appeared relatively townie the whole game, and Seanzie's arguments today are uninspiring.
Honestly I'm trying to look for reasons for why your slot would be town but I've got nothing. Can you point at anything you've done this game that you wouldn't have done as scum?
I shot down TSP's idea about ending the game yesterday rather than today since F4 is better for scum than F3. If I was a wolf, I would have taken my chances in F4 if it felt like town would have been up for it.
I also pushed hard for claims, which I may not have done as a wolf since the claims helped box scum in.
I also probably wouldn't have cleared Marmot based on balancing if I was a wolf since he was pretty heavily suspected and could have been a mislunch if I hadn't committed to always lunching TSP before Marmot two or three days ago.
thing two is flat false for you
things three and four are false enough
Thing two isn't false? F4 is always better for the wolf than F3? I think it is super suspicious you wanted to end it in F4 btw. Why was that?
"false enough"? What does that even mean? If you don't believe the Marmot thing, why did you say earlier today that you started yesterday thinking about voting Marmot? It sounds like YOU felt he was worth suspecting. Unless I missed something, I was the only one who had put Marmot as reasonably clear. Why would I do that as a wolf? TBH, I would have killed Urist as a wolf last night. I think you only killed Marmot because you knew 1. I had him far above you, and 2. Marmot had expressed that he felt good about my ISO (granted still suspicious of my slot overall), whereas Urist did not express anything good about me yesterday.
thing two is false -- note -- for you, since you personally wouldn't have fared well. i pushed for it because i wanted the game to be over this is establishd:P
as to false enough I said that I had no idea what it means. i dunno why you cleared marmot for ~balancing~. I have no idea what ~balancing~ means. every time you say something about ~balancing~ I think it's just an in-between step for you to make whatever claim you want to tbh
pretty sure mafia is a game where normally there are two factions and they have approximately equal to achieve win cons and their sizes are not balanced but again, not talking about it. we have moved on.Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:39 pm If you play in a game with multiple factions, do you expect one faction with a very easy wincon to have more people in it than a faction with a much harder to satisfy wincon? No? Why not? Because that would be unbalanced. I've already explained this multiple times, but Hubologists literally need to kill 4 people to satisfy their non-enclave wincon, where Redding needs to kill ONE. So does it make sense to have Hubologists only have one rule, where Redding has two? No. It isn't out of the realm of possibilities, but it would be unexpected, and JJJ literally said he is proud of his ability to balance games, so I think it is reasonable to assume that the game is reasonably well-balanced.
Slaver isn't a wolf? Didn't you brag a little while about about understanding the setup? Like literally slaver is orange, which JJJ says is "most classically "independent"", and town doesn't need to kill the slaver to win, and the slaver can win with town. They are 3p, not wolf. So yeah, chop the wolf, or even chop in the PoE (like Grogu... whom you yeeted Alison over...) over chopping the 3p. Also, the fact Alison didn't shoot the night after she was outed essentially confirmed that she didn't have a shot left, since it was in her benefit to appear as harmless as possible (and the best way to prove she was harmless would have been to give us a mech reason to believe she had no shots left).TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:34 pm hmm chop the outed wolf with a (possible) vest and vig shot, or chop the outed vanilla goon
So you DOOOO know what balancing is. The harder the wincon is to satisfy, the more people the faction gets to make the game BALANCED. Wolves have a NK, BTSC and knowledge of their identity, so their wincon is easier to satisfy if teamsizes are equal, so wolves get less people than town to BALANCE the game.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:41 pmpretty sure mafia is a game where normally there are two factions and they have approximately equal to achieve win cons and their sizes are not balanced but again, not talking about it. we have moved on.Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:39 pm If you play in a game with multiple factions, do you expect one faction with a very easy wincon to have more people in it than a faction with a much harder to satisfy wincon? No? Why not? Because that would be unbalanced. I've already explained this multiple times, but Hubologists literally need to kill 4 people to satisfy their non-enclave wincon, where Redding needs to kill ONE. So does it make sense to have Hubologists only have one rule, where Redding has two? No. It isn't out of the realm of possibilities, but it would be unexpected, and JJJ literally said he is proud of his ability to balance games, so I think it is reasonable to assume that the game is reasonably well-balanced.
BECAUSE GROGU WAS GONNA GET SHOTSeanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:43 pmSlaver isn't a wolf? Didn't you brag a little while about about understanding the setup? Like literally slaver is orange, which JJJ says is "most classically "independent"", and town doesn't need to kill the slaver to win, and the slaver can win with town. They are 3p, not wolf. So yeah, chop the wolf, or even chop in the PoE (like Grogu... whom you yeeted Alison over...) over chopping the 3p. Also, the fact Alison didn't shoot the night after she was outed essentially confirmed that she didn't have a shot left, since it was in her benefit to appear as harmless as possible (and the best way to prove she was harmless would have been to give us a mech reason to believe she had no shots left).TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:34 pm hmm chop the outed wolf with a (possible) vest and vig shot, or chop the outed vanilla goon
IIRC, this didn't even become clear until reasonably close to EoD, and either way... wouldn't it have been nice if we would have lunched Grogu instead, then Spirtyo could have shot into the remaining PoE, and we would have had a 1 smaller PoE the rest of the game?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:46 pmBECAUSE GROGU WAS GONNA GET SHOTSeanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:43 pmSlaver isn't a wolf? Didn't you brag a little while about about understanding the setup? Like literally slaver is orange, which JJJ says is "most classically "independent"", and town doesn't need to kill the slaver to win, and the slaver can win with town. They are 3p, not wolf. So yeah, chop the wolf, or even chop in the PoE (like Grogu... whom you yeeted Alison over...) over chopping the 3p. Also, the fact Alison didn't shoot the night after she was outed essentially confirmed that she didn't have a shot left, since it was in her benefit to appear as harmless as possible (and the best way to prove she was harmless would have been to give us a mech reason to believe she had no shots left).TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:34 pm hmm chop the outed wolf with a (possible) vest and vig shot, or chop the outed vanilla goon
Yes, I'm the clown when you are trying to make the case that Enclave wanted us to yeet an Enclave member over a 3p...
Like seriously, TSP's argument ISN'T that I was pushing for Chop and Grogu to get some sort of towncred, but that WOLVES wanted Chop and Grogu to get killed over Alison. Like really? In what world do wolves want their own members to get chopped? (like, I know sometimes it is good to let a member go if it sets the others up well, but again, TSP hasn't said anything like that here).TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:41 pm Ok, it is clear based on present information that it was to the advantage of the scum team for chop to get chopped on day 6 and grogu to get chopped on day 7. I think this was clear from the get go, but at least the grogu one was a little more up in the air? Maybe there were worlds where you're concerned that sprityo was a wolf, but even then you give him the opportunity to prove himself with the vig shot, idk. The main person pushing those things in the thread was Sean, and the logic he was used to do so is flawed at best. Now, there are problems with the use of present information to judge past circumstances, but it is clear that me and Urist were arguing for the kills that were optimal for the town and that Sean was arguing for the kills that were optimal for the wolves
If the wolves wanted Alison alive, why were there 2 wolves on Alison D6 and 3 on Alison D7?Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:02 pmLike seriously, TSP's argument ISN'T that I was pushing for Chop and Grogu to get some sort of towncred, but that WOLVES wanted Chop and Grogu to get killed over Alison. Like really? In what world do wolves want their own members to get chopped? (like, I know sometimes it is good to let a member go if it sets the others up well, but again, TSP hasn't said anything like that here).TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:41 pm Ok, it is clear based on present information that it was to the advantage of the scum team for chop to get chopped on day 6 and grogu to get chopped on day 7. I think this was clear from the get go, but at least the grogu one was a little more up in the air? Maybe there were worlds where you're concerned that sprityo was a wolf, but even then you give him the opportunity to prove himself with the vig shot, idk. The main person pushing those things in the thread was Sean, and the logic he was used to do so is flawed at best. Now, there are problems with the use of present information to judge past circumstances, but it is clear that me and Urist were arguing for the kills that were optimal for the town and that Sean was arguing for the kills that were optimal for the wolves