The Syndicate

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:10 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:02 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:59 am

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:55 am That's a 65% serious post btw

I mean, just look at that

I do not see the basis for that specific accusation.

Mac's characteristic lack of restraint in accusing everyone as scum fits with the perspective of an Indi, since he could be on the mark but can afford collateral damage. SK's aggressively hunting early is somewhat of a tell in normal set ups, and I think that would be moreso the case here.

But in addition the "You're mafia, he's mafia", comes off as a mindset slip. Because he's not mafia.

I once again do not want to dismiss your read off hand, but I feel the need to add context: this is all standard Mac behavior. If I was going to accuse him of anything, it’s that he’s following his usual meta too closely.

I'll keep this in mind but I also put very little stake in someone else's meta knowledge on another player

Because 90% of the time with meta, players are making blanket observations anyway and not catching potential anomalies, and characterizing average play. So if there was a slip it wouldn't make a difference.

Mac is quite capable of accusing two others of being opposite-team mafiosos while being on one of the mafia teams himself. Assuming he's Indy because of that doesn't strike me as a slam-dunk observation; I think it's more likely that he's mafia. Doesn't totally strike me as Civ, but Mac is an aggressive player, so maybe.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] has 52 posts. I've compiled a list of all of the reads he has expressed in those 52 posts:
nutella is bad.

Mac is probably my second most confident town read at this point. I say this as someone who can never read macdougall.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:33 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:30 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:08 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:44 am @Dragomir nutella’s motivation for that post would be to try to look town. I don’t accuse her of having some nefarious plan in mind there. I accuse her of having a potentially phony tone.

Eh, you really have to stretch it out to say that'd be her motivation.

Why would she have a phony tone though?

Because she’s mafia? There is no motivation here. The accusation here is that her tone could have been false. That’s not something she would consciously plot out, it’s just something that would slip into her posts by accident.

Don't really buy it but ok.

What part do you not buy? I don’t need you to agree with my case, but it seems like you’re disagreeing with it by virtue of flat out misunderstanding, and I compulsively need to bridge that gap.

Sometimes mafia make mistakes. Sometimes they are not authentic. I try to catch them being not authentic. That is what I accused nutella of.

Don't buy her subconsciously slipping like that. Sounds like a stretch.

This is suspicious stuff from Dragomir. First of all, just because Sloon said that a phony tone could "slip into her posts", that's a far cry from her actually slipping in some way. It's a tone read, not a slip. Is this a cultural misunderstanding of the ways to use the word "slip"? Comes off as hamfisted deliberate misunderstanding, and, coupled with a possible TMI defense of nutella, it's suspicious.

I thought he was saying that she actually slipped there, wasn't thinking tone read but thanks for the clear up.

TMI? Where?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:18 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:53 pm Luxy, Nutella, Ultra. S'about it really.

Why, why, and why?

I like their posts. Just in general, especially Ultra's strategy on using Felicia.

Why do you like them? Can you point to any specific posts?

They sound good and I can see how they're thinking which I'm also liking. I don't really have a more in-depth reason for it mate. It's only surface level here my dude.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:25 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:33 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:30 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:08 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:05 pm
Eh, you really have to stretch it out to say that'd be her motivation.

Why would she have a phony tone though?

Because she’s mafia? There is no motivation here. The accusation here is that her tone could have been false. That’s not something she would consciously plot out, it’s just something that would slip into her posts by accident.

Don't really buy it but ok.

What part do you not buy? I don’t need you to agree with my case, but it seems like you’re disagreeing with it by virtue of flat out misunderstanding, and I compulsively need to bridge that gap.

Sometimes mafia make mistakes. Sometimes they are not authentic. I try to catch them being not authentic. That is what I accused nutella of.

Don't buy her subconsciously slipping like that. Sounds like a stretch.

This is suspicious stuff from Dragomir. First of all, just because Sloon said that a phony tone could "slip into her posts", that's a far cry from her actually slipping in some way. It's a tone read, not a slip. Is this a cultural misunderstanding of the ways to use the word "slip"? Comes off as hamfisted deliberate misunderstanding, and, coupled with a possible TMI defense of nutella, it's suspicious.

I thought he was saying that she actually slipped there, wasn't thinking tone read but thanks for the clear up.

TMI? Where?

Enh, your recent Civ-read of her to Sloon, which is pretty unsupported... that opinion was bolstered by your part in Slipgate, but if you truly misunderstood Sloonei's post then I can back-burner it for now.

Day Zero, surface-level... that is legit enough to me. We all need our Day Zero warmup suspicions though, so I'm your #1 fan right now.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:27 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:18 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:53 pm Luxy, Nutella, Ultra. S'about it really.

Why, why, and why?

I like their posts. Just in general, especially Ultra's strategy on using Felicia.

Why do you like them? Can you point to any specific posts?

They sound good and I can see how they're thinking which I'm also liking. I don't really have a more in-depth reason for it mate. It's only surface level here my dude.

I am trying to move beyond the surface level with these questions. I'm asking so that we can establish more solid ground on which to read these players. You obviously don't need to care about what I'm doing, but I'm hoping that we can draw out real substantiated reasons for reading players. The earlier we accomplish that, the better off we'll be later.

Creature Exercise #2 - Was the following post made by a Civilian or Mafia?

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:46 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:42 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:38 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:33 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:20 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:16 pm

Well yeah no I agree with you on that. Maybe this wasn't clear but I suspect him for focusing on mechanics as a reason in itself, not just because of specific things I saw as scummy. Even if I didn't have those little pings (which like you said are pretty circumstantial) I suspect him for the mechanics talk as a general trend.

This seems like potential backed-into-a-corner-word-salad of an explanation

could you elaborate on this in a clear matter

When I originally stated my reason for suspecting MM I said it was because he was focusing on mechanics and that there were parts of that discussion which specifically pinged me. Even disregarding the small specific pings, which both he and Lux dismissed as weak and I concede that they were, I still suspect him for the main reason of generally focusing on mechanics. That make sense?

Serenade me with your take on why his focus on mechanics is suspicious

and what your other small pings were

It's an easy thing to talk about that isn't developing reads on other players. It's a way for scum to look productive in the thread without actually driving the scumhunting process.

Already discussed the other pings and they were shot down. Still have a hunch though.

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 am I can see both sides of the argument on gth reads. I always end up not being around when they happen so I always miss it. This early I kinda struggle to have any good reads on anyone so it's hard to decide that quickly. At the same time I also get slooneis point that it gets a conversation going and moves things in a direction. From what I've seen slooneis usual goal is to try to post a lot and get people talking in the beginning of the game.

Hey sabie. Let's start with the players you know best: what do you think of Epi, nutella, juliets, and me so far?

At this point I'd to apologize to all of the sensible people who decided not to take Day 0 seriously. You shouldn't have this much content to worry about. I am a big dumb idiot.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:31 pm Creature Exercise #2 - Was the following post made by a Civilian or Mafia?

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:46 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:42 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:38 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:33 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:20 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:16 pm

Well yeah no I agree with you on that. Maybe this wasn't clear but I suspect him for focusing on mechanics as a reason in itself, not just because of specific things I saw as scummy. Even if I didn't have those little pings (which like you said are pretty circumstantial) I suspect him for the mechanics talk as a general trend.

This seems like potential backed-into-a-corner-word-salad of an explanation

could you elaborate on this in a clear matter

When I originally stated my reason for suspecting MM I said it was because he was focusing on mechanics and that there were parts of that discussion which specifically pinged me. Even disregarding the small specific pings, which both he and Lux dismissed as weak and I concede that they were, I still suspect him for the main reason of generally focusing on mechanics. That make sense?

Serenade me with your take on why his focus on mechanics is suspicious

and what your other small pings were

It's an easy thing to talk about that isn't developing reads on other players. It's a way for scum to look productive in the thread without actually driving the scumhunting process.

Already discussed the other pings and they were shot down. Still have a hunch though.

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

Mafia, this is buddying.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:22 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:10 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:02 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:59 am

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:55 am That's a 65% serious post btw

I mean, just look at that

I do not see the basis for that specific accusation.

Mac's characteristic lack of restraint in accusing everyone as scum fits with the perspective of an Indi, since he could be on the mark but can afford collateral damage. SK's aggressively hunting early is somewhat of a tell in normal set ups, and I think that would be moreso the case here.

But in addition the "You're mafia, he's mafia", comes off as a mindset slip. Because he's not mafia.

I once again do not want to dismiss your read off hand, but I feel the need to add context: this is all standard Mac behavior. If I was going to accuse him of anything, it’s that he’s following his usual meta too closely.

I'll keep this in mind but I also put very little stake in someone else's meta knowledge on another player

Because 90% of the time with meta, players are making blanket observations anyway and not catching potential anomalies, and characterizing average play. So if there was a slip it wouldn't make a difference.

Mac is quite capable of accusing two others of being opposite-team mafiosos while being on one of the mafia teams himself. Assuming he's Indy because of that doesn't strike me as a slam-dunk observation; I think it's more likely that he's mafia. Doesn't totally strike me as Civ, but Mac is an aggressive player, so maybe.

What do you think makes him mafia

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:22 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:10 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:02 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:59 am

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:55 am That's a 65% serious post btw

I mean, just look at that

I do not see the basis for that specific accusation.

Mac's characteristic lack of restraint in accusing everyone as scum fits with the perspective of an Indi, since he could be on the mark but can afford collateral damage. SK's aggressively hunting early is somewhat of a tell in normal set ups, and I think that would be moreso the case here.

But in addition the "You're mafia, he's mafia", comes off as a mindset slip. Because he's not mafia.

I once again do not want to dismiss your read off hand, but I feel the need to add context: this is all standard Mac behavior. If I was going to accuse him of anything, it’s that he’s following his usual meta too closely.

I'll keep this in mind but I also put very little stake in someone else's meta knowledge on another player

Because 90% of the time with meta, players are making blanket observations anyway and not catching potential anomalies, and characterizing average play. So if there was a slip it wouldn't make a difference.

Mac is quite capable of accusing two others of being opposite-team mafiosos while being on one of the mafia teams himself. Assuming he's Indy because of that doesn't strike me as a slam-dunk observation; I think it's more likely that he's mafia. Doesn't totally strike me as Civ, but Mac is an aggressive player, so maybe.

What do you think makes him mafia

If I were Epignosis, I would say, "His role card makes him mafia." But I'm Long Con.

I believe he would say such a thing, as mafia, in order to get the reaction that you had, that he had a "mindset slip". That is the level of craftiness I expect from Mac.

[mention]Long Con[/mention] could you elaborate on your stance regarding the Luxurious post above?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:31 pm Creature Exercise #2 - Was the following post made by a Civilian or Mafia?

Spoiler: show

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:46 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:42 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:38 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:33 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:20 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:16 pm

Well yeah no I agree with you on that. Maybe this wasn't clear but I suspect him for focusing on mechanics as a reason in itself, not just because of specific things I saw as scummy. Even if I didn't have those little pings (which like you said are pretty circumstantial) I suspect him for the mechanics talk as a general trend.

This seems like potential backed-into-a-corner-word-salad of an explanation

could you elaborate on this in a clear matter

When I originally stated my reason for suspecting MM I said it was because he was focusing on mechanics and that there were parts of that discussion which specifically pinged me. Even disregarding the small specific pings, which both he and Lux dismissed as weak and I concede that they were, I still suspect him for the main reason of generally focusing on mechanics. That make sense?

Serenade me with your take on why his focus on mechanics is suspicious

and what your other small pings were

It's an easy thing to talk about that isn't developing reads on other players. It's a way for scum to look productive in the thread without actually driving the scumhunting process.

Already discussed the other pings and they were shot down. Still have a hunch though.

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

Civilian.

Maybe I do suck at pop quiz.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:31 pm Creature Exercise #2 - Was the following post made by a Civilian or Mafia?

Spoiler: show

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:46 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:42 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:38 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:33 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:20 pm

This seems like potential backed-into-a-corner-word-salad of an explanation

could you elaborate on this in a clear matter

When I originally stated my reason for suspecting MM I said it was because he was focusing on mechanics and that there were parts of that discussion which specifically pinged me. Even disregarding the small specific pings, which both he and Lux dismissed as weak and I concede that they were, I still suspect him for the main reason of generally focusing on mechanics. That make sense?

Serenade me with your take on why his focus on mechanics is suspicious

and what your other small pings were

It's an easy thing to talk about that isn't developing reads on other players. It's a way for scum to look productive in the thread without actually driving the scumhunting process.

Already discussed the other pings and they were shot down. Still have a hunch though.

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

Civilian.

Why?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:12 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:31 pm Creature Exercise #2 - Was the following post made by a Civilian or Mafia?

Spoiler: show

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:46 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:42 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:38 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:33 pm

When I originally stated my reason for suspecting MM I said it was because he was focusing on mechanics and that there were parts of that discussion which specifically pinged me. Even disregarding the small specific pings, which both he and Lux dismissed as weak and I concede that they were, I still suspect him for the main reason of generally focusing on mechanics. That make sense?

Serenade me with your take on why his focus on mechanics is suspicious

and what your other small pings were

It's an easy thing to talk about that isn't developing reads on other players. It's a way for scum to look productive in the thread without actually driving the scumhunting process.

Already discussed the other pings and they were shot down. Still have a hunch though.

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

Civilian.

Why?

Mostly the word choices (like "the only thing...") ping me town.

I’m going to be in and out this afternoon, but I’ll be making a few posts throughout the day. I now have something to say.

I’m going to start with talking about the old school set-up. No, we can’t claim, we can’t info dump. But we can do the use-to-be obligatory town statement.

There are no visible lie detectors in the roles, but we do have Harrison. He has a secret, which could be a lie detector. He also sends out inventions to players, maybe one of the inventions is a polygraph machine. Only Harrison would know this for certain, but I’m not going to overlook the possibility. So this is my townie statement. I am town.

People are not obligated to do this. But since we goin old school here, I thought maybe some of the players who haven’t played a game like this, might be interested in knowing it used to be a thing.

I’m leaving for awhile, but when I get back, I’ll discuss a few pings.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:45 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:22 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:10 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:02 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:59 am

I do not see the basis for that specific accusation.

Mac's characteristic lack of restraint in accusing everyone as scum fits with the perspective of an Indi, since he could be on the mark but can afford collateral damage. SK's aggressively hunting early is somewhat of a tell in normal set ups, and I think that would be moreso the case here.

But in addition the "You're mafia, he's mafia", comes off as a mindset slip. Because he's not mafia.

I once again do not want to dismiss your read off hand, but I feel the need to add context: this is all standard Mac behavior. If I was going to accuse him of anything, it’s that he’s following his usual meta too closely.

I'll keep this in mind but I also put very little stake in someone else's meta knowledge on another player

Because 90% of the time with meta, players are making blanket observations anyway and not catching potential anomalies, and characterizing average play. So if there was a slip it wouldn't make a difference.

Mac is quite capable of accusing two others of being opposite-team mafiosos while being on one of the mafia teams himself. Assuming he's Indy because of that doesn't strike me as a slam-dunk observation; I think it's more likely that he's mafia. Doesn't totally strike me as Civ, but Mac is an aggressive player, so maybe.

What do you think makes him mafia

If I were Epignosis, I would say, "His role card makes him mafia." But I'm Long Con.

I believe he would say such a thing, as mafia, in order to get the reaction that you had, that he had a "mindset slip". That is the level of craftiness I expect from Mac.

This sounds so contrived I don't know what to read you as

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:33 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:30 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:08 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:44 am @Dragomir nutella’s motivation for that post would be to try to look town. I don’t accuse her of having some nefarious plan in mind there. I accuse her of having a potentially phony tone.

Eh, you really have to stretch it out to say that'd be her motivation.

Why would she have a phony tone though?

Because she’s mafia? There is no motivation here. The accusation here is that her tone could have been false. That’s not something she would consciously plot out, it’s just something that would slip into her posts by accident.

Don't really buy it but ok.

What part do you not buy? I don’t need you to agree with my case, but it seems like you’re disagreeing with it by virtue of flat out misunderstanding, and I compulsively need to bridge that gap.

Sometimes mafia make mistakes. Sometimes they are not authentic. I try to catch them being not authentic. That is what I accused nutella of.

Don't buy her subconsciously slipping like that. Sounds like a stretch.

This is suspicious stuff from Dragomir. First of all, just because Sloon said that a phony tone could "slip into her posts", that's a far cry from her actually slipping in some way. It's a tone read, not a slip. Is this a cultural misunderstanding of the ways to use the word "slip"? Comes off as hamfisted deliberate misunderstanding, and, coupled with a possible TMI defense of nutella, it's suspicious.

Ehhh I don't think it's a hamfisted deliberate misunderstanding, just a plain ol' misunderstanding. Also, importantly, there's no TMI in a multi-mafia setup.

I have some mixed feelings about Drago so far, but leaning town.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:20 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:17 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:14 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:10 am just cus you say nigga dont make you sound cool bro

I don't say nigga to sound cool lmao. Dunno even what the hell made you think that. I just felt like saying, I say it a lot in real life so why not online.

yes you do and its obvoius

because you sound stiff when you say it
i doubt you use it ever

epi must be right with his assumption

You really want to go bro? Cause I am really getting pissed off at the lack of truth in this entire. "I sound stiff" bro what? Get the hell out of here with that shit.

I SAY NIGGA ALL THE FUCKING TIME, SO GET OUTA HERE WITH THIS SHIT.

I can't believe I missed this whole exchange

I think the way he changed his mind on sloonei's case after seeing my response was genuine. Scum would be more careful about looking too agree-happy.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:39 pm I think the way he changed his mind on sloonei's case after seeing my response was genuine. Scum would be more careful about looking too agree-happy.

Definitely. Everything about his progression on me felt authentic.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:45 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:22 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:10 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:02 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:59 am

I do not see the basis for that specific accusation.

Mac's characteristic lack of restraint in accusing everyone as scum fits with the perspective of an Indi, since he could be on the mark but can afford collateral damage. SK's aggressively hunting early is somewhat of a tell in normal set ups, and I think that would be moreso the case here.

But in addition the "You're mafia, he's mafia", comes off as a mindset slip. Because he's not mafia.

I once again do not want to dismiss your read off hand, but I feel the need to add context: this is all standard Mac behavior. If I was going to accuse him of anything, it’s that he’s following his usual meta too closely.

I'll keep this in mind but I also put very little stake in someone else's meta knowledge on another player

Because 90% of the time with meta, players are making blanket observations anyway and not catching potential anomalies, and characterizing average play. So if there was a slip it wouldn't make a difference.

Mac is quite capable of accusing two others of being opposite-team mafiosos while being on one of the mafia teams himself. Assuming he's Indy because of that doesn't strike me as a slam-dunk observation; I think it's more likely that he's mafia. Doesn't totally strike me as Civ, but Mac is an aggressive player, so maybe.

What do you think makes him mafia

If I were Epignosis, I would say, "His role card makes him mafia." But I'm Long Con.

I believe he would say such a thing, as mafia, in order to get the reaction that you had, that he had a "mindset slip". That is the level of craftiness I expect from Mac.

I dig this. In a two-mafia setup mafia Mac would absolutely accuse people of being on different mafia teams to reap the benefit of looking like he's consciously hunting for two different mafia teams.

For the record, I’m fairly certain I remember Mac doing exactly what LC and nutella are suggesting in A World Asunder. That was another multiball game, Mac was scum, LC was co-host. So there’s precedent and substance to his suspicion here.

I still would lean town on Mac here.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:07 am

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:11 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:06 pm hm, well yes mac. i can deduce that today is in fact, day 0

thank you, this has been my ted talk

whatup? what's happening in this game? do you approve or disapprove of anything?

that's a matter of opinion

what's your opinion on nutella?

it's not that good of a spread

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 3:20 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:07 am

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:11 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:06 pm hm, well yes mac. i can deduce that today is in fact, day 0

thank you, this has been my ted talk

whatup? what's happening in this game? do you approve or disapprove of anything?

that's a matter of opinion

what's your opinion on nutella?

it's not that good of a spread

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine IRL

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:35 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:45 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:22 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:10 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:02 pm

Mac's characteristic lack of restraint in accusing everyone as scum fits with the perspective of an Indi, since he could be on the mark but can afford collateral damage. SK's aggressively hunting early is somewhat of a tell in normal set ups, and I think that would be moreso the case here.

But in addition the "You're mafia, he's mafia", comes off as a mindset slip. Because he's not mafia.

I once again do not want to dismiss your read off hand, but I feel the need to add context: this is all standard Mac behavior. If I was going to accuse him of anything, it’s that he’s following his usual meta too closely.

I'll keep this in mind but I also put very little stake in someone else's meta knowledge on another player

Because 90% of the time with meta, players are making blanket observations anyway and not catching potential anomalies, and characterizing average play. So if there was a slip it wouldn't make a difference.

Mac is quite capable of accusing two others of being opposite-team mafiosos while being on one of the mafia teams himself. Assuming he's Indy because of that doesn't strike me as a slam-dunk observation; I think it's more likely that he's mafia. Doesn't totally strike me as Civ, but Mac is an aggressive player, so maybe.

What do you think makes him mafia

If I were Epignosis, I would say, "His role card makes him mafia." But I'm Long Con.

I believe he would say such a thing, as mafia, in order to get the reaction that you had, that he had a "mindset slip". That is the level of craftiness I expect from Mac.

This sounds so contrived I don't know what to read you as

That's fine... give me enough time, and you'll be absolutely sure I'm bad.

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 3:20 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:07 am

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:11 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:06 pm hm, well yes mac. i can deduce that today is in fact, day 0

thank you, this has been my ted talk

whatup? what's happening in this game? do you approve or disapprove of anything?

that's a matter of opinion

what's your opinion on nutella?

it's not that good of a spread

Nutella with a banana on a wheat tortilla is amazing, and I only just discovered this a month ago.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:14 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm luxurious is scum

nutella is neutral
epi is neutral +1
ultra is neutral
creature is neutral -1

juliets is probably town


change my mind

Why is juliets probably town?

innocent actions

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:14 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm luxurious is scum

nutella is neutral
epi is neutral +1
ultra is neutral
creature is neutral -1

juliets is probably town


change my mind

Why is juliets probably town?

innocent actions

What does this mean?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:22 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:14 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm luxurious is scum

nutella is neutral
epi is neutral +1
ultra is neutral
creature is neutral -1

juliets is probably town


change my mind

Why is juliets probably town?

innocent actions

What does this mean?

some wolves have a tone to them that seem disingenuous or as if theyre hiding something
i dont get that read from juliet

ofcourse she could just be a deepwolf which is why i say "probably"

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:27 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:18 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:53 pm Luxy, Nutella, Ultra. S'about it really.

Why, why, and why?

I like their posts. Just in general, especially Ultra's strategy on using Felicia.

Why do you like them? Can you point to any specific posts?

They sound good and I can see how they're thinking which I'm also liking. I don't really have a more in-depth reason for it mate. It's only surface level here my dude.

I am trying to move beyond the surface level with these questions. I'm asking so that we can establish more solid ground on which to read these players. You obviously don't need to care about what I'm doing, but I'm hoping that we can draw out real substantiated reasons for reading players. The earlier we accomplish that, the better off we'll be later.

Welp, can't help you then.

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:24 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:22 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:14 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm luxurious is scum

nutella is neutral
epi is neutral +1
ultra is neutral
creature is neutral -1

juliets is probably town


change my mind

Why is juliets probably town?

innocent actions

What does this mean?

some wolves have a tone to them that seem disingenuous or as if theyre hiding something
i dont get that read from juliet

ofcourse she could just be a deepwolf which is why i say "probably"

Deepwolf in D0 already?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:24 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:22 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:14 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm luxurious is scum

nutella is neutral
epi is neutral +1
ultra is neutral
creature is neutral -1

juliets is probably town


change my mind

Why is juliets probably town?

innocent actions

What does this mean?

some wolves have a tone to them that seem disingenuous or as if theyre hiding something
i dont get that read from juliet

ofcourse she could just be a deepwolf which is why i say "probably"

Deepwolf in D0 already?

exactly why i say theyre town

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:42 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:27 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:18 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:53 pm Luxy, Nutella, Ultra. S'about it really.

Why, why, and why?

I like their posts. Just in general, especially Ultra's strategy on using Felicia.

Why do you like them? Can you point to any specific posts?

They sound good and I can see how they're thinking which I'm also liking. I don't really have a more in-depth reason for it mate. It's only surface level here my dude.

I am trying to move beyond the surface level with these questions. I'm asking so that we can establish more solid ground on which to read these players. You obviously don't need to care about what I'm doing, but I'm hoping that we can draw out real substantiated reasons for reading players. The earlier we accomplish that, the better off we'll be later.

Welp, can't help you then.

Not with that attitude, you can’t!

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:24 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:22 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:14 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm luxurious is scum

nutella is neutral
epi is neutral +1
ultra is neutral
creature is neutral -1

juliets is probably town


change my mind

Why is juliets probably town?

innocent actions

What does this mean?

some wolves have a tone to them that seem disingenuous or as if theyre hiding something
i dont get that read from juliet

ofcourse she could just be a deepwolf which is why i say "probably"

Deepwolf in D0 already?

How is the suggestion of another player (juliets) being “deep wolf” any different from your accusations against me re: my nutella ISO?

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:14 am

Matahari wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:57 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:51 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:13 am

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:49 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:35 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:34 pm

Eh?

Do you...object to me suspecting Matahari?

Or do you object to me not suspecting Ultra?

No I'm wondering why you brought up Matahari. I'm not objecting, just kind of perplexed and wanting elaboration.

Are you concerned for your scum buddy?

bro.... mata is my top suspect as you will find out when you catch up i guess

I don’t know why I’m your top suspect. Could you fill me in?

posts like this, actually. I explained more in a previous post, but I don't like the way you only seem to appear when someone suspects you and you ask "why why why" and you had one other post asking for clarification on something while catching up. I know you explained it's your style but your posts like this give me such strong vibes of aloofness/detachment from the thread or feigned ignorance or just like.... turning suspicions back as "why" questions without putting in any effort to contribute content that might actually be productive, like you're avoiding accountability but also avoiding doing anything else.

^Poisoning the well.

Hi Jack

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 5:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:24 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:22 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:14 am

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm luxurious is scum

nutella is neutral
epi is neutral +1
ultra is neutral
creature is neutral -1

juliets is probably town


change my mind

Why is juliets probably town?

innocent actions

What does this mean?

some wolves have a tone to them that seem disingenuous or as if theyre hiding something
i dont get that read from juliet

ofcourse she could just be a deepwolf which is why i say "probably"

Deepwolf in D0 already?

How is the suggestion of another player (juliets) being “deep wolf” any different from your accusations against me re: my nutella ISO?

I don't understand?

Are you trying to say that because the suggestion makes no sense and I thought your iso made no sense?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:23 pm Jackofhearts2005 has 52 posts. I've compiled a list of all of the reads he has expressed in those 52 posts:
nutella is bad.

This is not true but that’s okay. It’s a good enough summary.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 5:56 pmHi Jack

Hi Creature. How’re you?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:16 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 5:56 pmHi Jack

Hi Creature. How’re you?

Fine. How about the game?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:05 pm Are you trying to say that because the suggestion makes no sense and I thought your iso made no sense?

No.

Part of your accusation against me was that I accused nutella to try to impress others/make myself look good/potentially establish myself as "deepwolf", if I am understanding you correctly. These are your words.

Then MafiaMenace suggests the possibility of another player being "deepwolf", and these are your words:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm Deepwolf in D0 already?

You seemed to be accusing me of deepwolfing on Day 0, but then you cast doubt on MafiaMenace for suggesting the possibility of the same characteristics in a different player.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:23 pm Jackofhearts2005 has 52 posts. I've compiled a list of all of the reads he has expressed in those 52 posts:
nutella is bad.

This is not true but that’s okay. It’s a good enough summary.

Tell me about some other reads you have.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:18 pm Then MafiaMenace suggests the possibility of another player being "deepwolf", and these are your words:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm Deepwolf in D0 already?

You seemed to be accusing me of deepwolfing on Day 0, but then you cast doubt on MafiaMenace for suggesting the possibility of the same characteristics in a different player.

Hypocrisy is a staple of the town playbook.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:19 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:23 pm Jackofhearts2005 has 52 posts. I've compiled a list of all of the reads he has expressed in those 52 posts:
nutella is bad.

This is not true but that’s okay. It’s a good enough summary.

Tell me about some other reads you have.

Speed town. Ultra town. Mac town. Probably Sloonei town. Drago maybe bad.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:42 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:18 pm Then MafiaMenace suggests the possibility of another player being "deepwolf", and these are your words:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm Deepwolf in D0 already?

You seemed to be accusing me of deepwolfing on Day 0, but then you cast doubt on MafiaMenace for suggesting the possibility of the same characteristics in a different player.

Hypocrisy is a staple of the town playbook.

i’m not accusing him of not being town.