Bread Mafia [Game Over]

[Alison]

unless ur gaslighting them...

sorry y'all be we're pretty far from a towncore, and tbh it's a dangerous to imply otherwise

Esooa: I think X is false.
Alison: If we accept that X, then Y is a natural conclusion.
Esooa: I disagree with Y tbh.
Alison: Well yeah, obviously, you disagree with X, so you would have no reason to think Y was true.

X = "tutuu is town", Y = "JJJ is town".

This is not gaslighting and it's a reach to say so.

Why don't you believe in the towncore idea?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

unless ur gaslighting them...

sorry y'all be we're pretty far from a towncore, and tbh it's a dangerous to imply otherwise

Idk I think we’re pretty close

[tutuu]

pretty meh on this read

I mean the read only makes sense if you agree with me that the towncore is watertight. You distrust tutuu so naturally you're going to see my conclusion as being a lot more unwarranted than me.

out of fear of being bullied by thread, I don't like this either.

like it makes sense, but in an unnecessary way

can you expand on that a bit? what's unnecessary about it?

you don't need to explain to people why they feel how they feel

sure, but this is a game about communication. it would help me understand your thought process & perspective more if you elaborated on your comment about alison

but hey, live ur life

nah, what i'm saying is that it felt like alison was explain to Esooa how Esooa felt in a manipulative way.
Esooa feels how they feels, it's a bit weird to explain to Esooa why their take makes sense

I think Alison likes to make assertive claims like that all the time, and I think I'm guilty of it myself too.

[staypositivefriend]

pretty meh on this read

I mean the read only makes sense if you agree with me that the towncore is watertight. You distrust tutuu so naturally you're going to see my conclusion as being a lot more unwarranted than me.

out of fear of being bullied by thread, I don't like this either.

like it makes sense, but in an unnecessary way

can you expand on that a bit? what's unnecessary about it?

you don't need to explain to people why they feel how they feel

sure, but this is a game about communication. it would help me understand your thought process & perspective more if you elaborated on your comment about alison

but hey, live ur life

no that was his point

took me a sec but he was talking about alison explaining to esooa why esooa doesnt trust her

yeah i interpreted it in a totally wrong way lol, i get what he's trying to say now

[nutella]

made trying to poke holes in alisonlogic is.... i mean good luck buddy lol

[tutuu]

tutuu
DkKoba
Esooa

NANOOK
Alison
nutella

Rest

Ellie

[nutella]

off to bread

[Made]

unless ur gaslighting them...

sorry y'all be we're pretty far from a towncore, and tbh it's a dangerous to imply otherwise

Esooa: I think X is false.
Alison: If we accept that X, then Y is a natural conclusion.
Esooa: I disagree with Y tbh.
Alison: Well yeah, obviously, you disagree with X, so you would have no reason to think Y was true.

X = "tutuu is town", Y = "JJJ is town".

This is not gaslighting and it's a reach to say so.

Why don't you believe in the towncore idea?

unless ur gaslighting them...

sorry y'all be we're pretty far from a towncore, and tbh it's a dangerous to imply otherwise

nah it's fine, we go with it for a few days, if shit goes wrong we reevaluate

let's say it this way: If we mislynch, we should reevaluate everything.

I think Alison is shifty. yes, her/your if x then y makes sense, but what i'm saying is that's something that helps you/her, alison, to determine if she trust Esooa's read. it feels over explainy.
I think nutella is shifty because of interaction with JJJ who is my biggest scum read
I think i trust tutuu most, which is a 180 from where i was like 3 pages

I don't have enough trust in anyone to make a towncore, especially one based on mindmelds when they aren't alignment indicative.

I also also don't like how Alison positioned Mac (i think it was alison?) as a person who could break up towncore if he shows up and is bad. It implies that the only reason someone would have to break up a towncore would be because they're bad.

This all feels too fast and far too loose and i'm not liking none of it at towncore building stage

[Made]

unless ur gaslighting them...

sorry y'all be we're pretty far from a towncore, and tbh it's a dangerous to imply otherwise

Esooa: I think X is false.
Alison: If we accept that X, then Y is a natural conclusion.
Esooa: I disagree with Y tbh.
Alison: Well yeah, obviously, you disagree with X, so you would have no reason to think Y was true.

X = "tutuu is town", Y = "JJJ is town".

This is not gaslighting and it's a reach to say so.

Why don't you believe in the towncore idea?

unless ur gaslighting them...

sorry y'all be we're pretty far from a towncore, and tbh it's a dangerous to imply otherwise

nah it's fine, we go with it for a few days, if shit goes wrong we reevaluate

let's say it this way: If we mislynch, we should reevaluate everything.

I think Alison is shifty. yes, her/your if x then y makes sense, but what i'm saying is that's something that helps you/her, alison, to determine if she trust Esooa's read. it feels over explainy.
I think nutella is shifty because of interaction with JJJ who is my biggest scum read
I think i trust tutuu most, which is a 180 from where i was like 3 pages

I don't have enough trust in anyone to make a towncore, especially one based on mindmelds when they aren't alignment indicative.

I also also don't like how Alison positioned Mac (i think it was alison?) as a person who could break up towncore if he shows up and is bad. It implies that the only reason someone would have to break up a towncore would be because they're bad.

This all feels too fast and far too loose and i'm not liking none of it at towncore building stage

@MacDougall start reading from here <3

[EllieDelight]

I think the towncore is pretty watertight right now and I think JJJ would absolutely be freaking out if he was scum and his teammates weren't in the towncore. So yeah, I trust JJJ.

pretty meh on this read

I mean the read only makes sense if you agree with me that the towncore is watertight. You distrust tutuu so naturally you're going to see my conclusion as being a lot more unwarranted than me.

this is bullshit lol. i kept saying sorry and was apologizing for my reads and shit in my first game where i was mafia. i was way more confident in my town game. esooa, cmon that's a lie i could link to. I really hope you and tuutuu arent sus together right now

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You don’t reevaluate a towncore cause you kill wrongly once lol

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Also I have four reads locked in that’s plenty to start a towncore

[tutuu]

I think the towncore is pretty watertight right now and I think JJJ would absolutely be freaking out if he was scum and his teammates weren't in the towncore. So yeah, I trust JJJ.

pretty meh on this read

I mean the read only makes sense if you agree with me that the towncore is watertight. You distrust tutuu so naturally you're going to see my conclusion as being a lot more unwarranted than me.

this is bullshit lol. i kept saying sorry and was apologizing for my reads and shit in my first game where i was mafia. i was way more confident in my town game. esooa, cmon that's a lie i could link to. I really hope you and tuutuu arent sus together right now

Why are you hoping that me and Eso aren't scum? How does hoping that two other players aren't scum in a game of mafia when you are supposedly town make sense?

Could you link your games please?

[Alison]

let's say it this way: If we mislynch, we should reevaluate everything.

I think Alison is shifty. yes, her/your if x then y makes sense, but what i'm saying is that's something that helps you/her, alison, to determine if she trust Esooa's read. it feels over explainy.
I think nutella is shifty because of interaction with JJJ who is my biggest scum read
I think i trust tutuu most, which is a 180 from where i was like 3 pages

I don't have enough trust in anyone to make a towncore, especially one based on mindmelds when they aren't alignment indicative.

I also also don't like how Alison positioned Mac (i think it was alison?) as a person who could break up towncore if he shows up and is bad. It implies that the only reason someone would have to break up a towncore would be because they're bad.

This all feels too fast and far too loose and i'm not liking none of it at towncore building stage

Saying my post was over explainy is fine. Calling it gaslighting and manipulative makes no sense. Those two accusations don't track together, either.

Why is JJJ scummy, and what interaction does nut have with him that makes her look bad?

The towncore people are townreading each other for reasons beyond mindmelds. If you don't trust the towncore, more power to you, but it's not accurate to say that they're just mindlessly sheeping each other because of mindmelds.

Also it's nanook who posited that, but also you're taking that whole take out of context anyway. The idea was that JJJ would not panic despite being in the POE as scum if he has a scum buddy competent enough to turn the tables.

[Esooa]

I think the towncore is pretty watertight right now and I think JJJ would absolutely be freaking out if he was scum and his teammates weren't in the towncore. So yeah, I trust JJJ.

pretty meh on this read

I mean the read only makes sense if you agree with me that the towncore is watertight. You distrust tutuu so naturally you're going to see my conclusion as being a lot more unwarranted than me.

this is bullshit lol. i kept saying sorry and was apologizing for my reads and shit in my first game where i was mafia. i was way more confident in my town game. esooa, cmon that's a lie i could link to. I really hope you and tuutuu arent sus together right now

you're wrong but probably more in the way you didn't understand how you came off

day 1 of your scum game you opened by scum reading a town read player, and one who had town read you. Rejecting a town read and going against consensus is very much more so confident than a first time scum normally would be so I town read you for it. Day 3 of your scum game you started the day saying you were happy you were right in your Wes read the whole time. It wasn't hedgey at all, you were simply confident he was scum and were proud your read was right

day 1 of your town game in comparison you apologized for not knowing how to make reads and your ability to make reads being bad

this also contrasts with you thinking you have the ability to read me, by the way

I remember the games I play lol

[Made]

You don’t reevaluate a towncore cause you kill wrongly once lol

no, but in this particular situation-- town has no empirical evidence (a lynch result) to base a towncore.

a bad d1 lynch, depending how it goes bad, is evidence that your towncore is weird--or at least not large enough.

ALSO EVERYONE IS FOR A TOWNCORE DAY 0???

There are 3 bad players, and right now, no one seems to be mad at that. I think it was nutella who used that logic to reason that JJJ was probably good. Could you also use that logic to reason towncore is probably bad?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You don’t reevaluate a towncore cause you kill wrongly once lol

no, but in this particular situation-- town has no empirical evidence (a lynch result) to base a towncore.

a bad d1 lynch, depending how it goes bad, is evidence that your towncore is weird--or at least not large enough.

ALSO EVERYONE IS FOR A TOWNCORE DAY 0???

There are 3 bad players, and right now, no one seems to be mad at that. I think it was nutella who used that logic to reason that JJJ was probably good. Could you also use that logic to reason towncore is probably bad?

What are you even talking about

[EllieDelight]

let's say it this way: If we mislynch, we should reevaluate everything.

I think Alison is shifty. yes, her/your if x then y makes sense, but what i'm saying is that's something that helps you/her, alison, to determine if she trust Esooa's read. it feels over explainy.
I think nutella is shifty because of interaction with JJJ who is my biggest scum read
I think i trust tutuu most, which is a 180 from where i was like 3 pages

I don't have enough trust in anyone to make a towncore, especially one based on mindmelds when they aren't alignment indicative.

I also also don't like how Alison positioned Mac (i think it was alison?) as a person who could break up towncore if he shows up and is bad. It implies that the only reason someone would have to break up a towncore would be because they're bad.

This all feels too fast and far too loose and i'm not liking none of it at towncore building stage

Saying my post was over explainy is fine. Calling it gaslighting and manipulative makes no sense. Those two accusations don't track together, either.

Why is JJJ scummy, and what interaction does nut have with him that makes her look bad?

The towncore people are townreading each other for reasons beyond mindmelds. If you don't trust the towncore, more power to you, but it's not accurate to say that they're just mindlessly sheeping each other because of mindmelds.

Also it's nanook who posited that, but also you're taking that whole take out of context anyway. The idea was that JJJ would not panic despite being in the POE as scum if he has a scum buddy competent enough to turn the tables.

im hoping esooa isnt scum because she's my friend and that would suck to be on different sides. last game she got killed night1 and we didn't get to be on the same team for long. i dont give a damn if youre scum, and frankly i think your super zealous pocketing of her is scummy.

[Alison]

You don’t reevaluate a towncore cause you kill wrongly once lol

no, but in this particular situation-- town has no empirical evidence (a lynch result) to base a towncore.

a bad d1 lynch, depending how it goes bad, is evidence that your towncore is weird--or at least not large enough.

ALSO EVERYONE IS FOR A TOWNCORE DAY 0???

There are 3 bad players, and right now, no one seems to be mad at that. I think it was nutella who used that logic to reason that JJJ was probably good. Could you also use that logic to reason towncore is probably bad?

Towncore just means a bunch of people are all really townie and all trust each other and vote together. Given that they all agree that everyone within the towncore is town, they vote out people outside the towncore until they hit scum. This is process of elimination. By definition it will hit some townies because that's how POE works, you aren't guaranteeing that you're hitting scum with each exe, you're guaranteeing that all the scum is in the exe targets and you will get them all eventually by working your way down the list.

I don't see why a towncore can't be formed early in the game if people have strong reads on each other tbh. Like Radiohead itself was a game like that, we had a strong towncore by mid day 1 and just exed everyone outside it and won easily.

[EllieDelight]

i should've said over zealous,nuts

[Alison]

Ellie why do you keep quoting my posts when you're responding to someone else's

[staypositivefriend]

i dont know if this is going to be perceived as scummy, but i wanna be clear that my strategy for this game is to put myself into the towncore by bringing a wolf pelt home

there's nothing wrong w/me not being in the ~towncore~ but it's the place i always feel the most comfortable (in the sense that it gives me the opportunity to relax and not deal with pressure while having thoughts to bounce off of people i trust), and getting to that spot would be extremely valuable for me in a game like this.

i'm gonna do my best to find a wolf today and get them chopped so that i can reap the towncred from it = )

[Esooa]

i dont know if this is going to be perceived as scummy, but i wanna be clear that my strategy for this game is to put myself into the towncore by bringing a wolf pelt home

there's nothing wrong w/me not being in the ~towncore~ but it's the place i always feel the most comfortable (in the sense that it gives me the opportunity to relax and not deal with pressure while having thoughts to bounce off of people i trust), and getting to that spot would be extremely valuable for me in a game like this.

i'm gonna do my best to find a wolf today and get them chopped so that i can reap the towncred from it = )

that explains your self vote /s

[tutuu]

i dont know if this is going to be perceived as scummy, but i wanna be clear that my strategy for this game is to put myself into the towncore by bringing a wolf pelt home

there's nothing wrong w/me not being in the ~towncore~ but it's the place i always feel the most comfortable (in the sense that it gives me the opportunity to relax and not deal with pressure while having thoughts to bounce off of people i trust), and getting to that spot would be extremely valuable for me in a game like this.

i'm gonna do my best to find a wolf today and get them chopped so that i can reap the towncred from it = )

Did you diplomatically convince a buddy to let themselves be bussed by you since otherwise you would get outed?

[staypositivefriend]

i dont know if this is going to be perceived as scummy, but i wanna be clear that my strategy for this game is to put myself into the towncore by bringing a wolf pelt home

there's nothing wrong w/me not being in the ~towncore~ but it's the place i always feel the most comfortable (in the sense that it gives me the opportunity to relax and not deal with pressure while having thoughts to bounce off of people i trust), and getting to that spot would be extremely valuable for me in a game like this.

i'm gonna do my best to find a wolf today and get them chopped so that i can reap the towncred from it = )

Did you diplomatically convince a buddy to let themselves be bussed by you since otherwise you would get outed?

no but that's probably something i would consider doing as scum

[Made]

let's say it this way: If we mislynch, we should reevaluate everything.

I think Alison is shifty. yes, her/your if x then y makes sense, but what i'm saying is that's something that helps you/her, alison, to determine if she trust Esooa's read. it feels over explainy.
I think nutella is shifty because of interaction with JJJ who is my biggest scum read
I think i trust tutuu most, which is a 180 from where i was like 3 pages

I don't have enough trust in anyone to make a towncore, especially one based on mindmelds when they aren't alignment indicative.

I also also don't like how Alison positioned Mac (i think it was alison?) as a person who could break up towncore if he shows up and is bad. It implies that the only reason someone would have to break up a towncore would be because they're bad.

This all feels too fast and far too loose and i'm not liking none of it at towncore building stage

Saying my post was over explainy is fine. Calling it gaslighting and manipulative makes no sense. Those two accusations don't track together, either.

Why is JJJ scummy, and what interaction does nut have with him that makes her look bad?

The towncore people are townreading each other for reasons beyond mindmelds. If you don't trust the towncore, more power to you, but it's not accurate to say that they're just mindlessly sheeping each other because of mindmelds.

Also it's nanook who posited that, but also you're taking that whole take out of context anyway. The idea was that JJJ would not panic despite being in the POE as scum if he has a scum buddy competent enough to turn the tables.

gaslight is a strong word, but it is beneficial to a wolf to manipulate people by using true logic as often as possible, even when unnecessary.
it's like tmi-ing to be right without the need to use information.

And i didn't mean to imply mindless sheeping. You can be engaged with a game--and agree with players---and be wrong. That's what i'm getting at.

this towncore feels like it's been given manufactured consent. I don't think we have solid footing/trust to get a towncore at this particular moment, and i think it's inaccurate to say that's where we're at.

[Esooa]

i dont know if this is going to be perceived as scummy, but i wanna be clear that my strategy for this game is to put myself into the towncore by bringing a wolf pelt home

there's nothing wrong w/me not being in the ~towncore~ but it's the place i always feel the most comfortable (in the sense that it gives me the opportunity to relax and not deal with pressure while having thoughts to bounce off of people i trust), and getting to that spot would be extremely valuable for me in a game like this.

i'm gonna do my best to find a wolf today and get them chopped so that i can reap the towncred from it = )

Did you diplomatically convince a buddy to let themselves be bussed by you since otherwise you would get outed?

I love the idea of Jess nicely explaining to a buddy why they need to die today

[staypositivefriend]

i dont know if this is going to be perceived as scummy, but i wanna be clear that my strategy for this game is to put myself into the towncore by bringing a wolf pelt home

there's nothing wrong w/me not being in the ~towncore~ but it's the place i always feel the most comfortable (in the sense that it gives me the opportunity to relax and not deal with pressure while having thoughts to bounce off of people i trust), and getting to that spot would be extremely valuable for me in a game like this.

i'm gonna do my best to find a wolf today and get them chopped so that i can reap the towncred from it = )

that explains your self vote /s

fun fact: scientists have determined that every time i self-vote, i get 20% townier

[EllieDelight]

me and esooa town
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost4592956

im mafia, esooa town
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/29268

[Made]

You don’t reevaluate a towncore cause you kill wrongly once lol

no, but in this particular situation-- town has no empirical evidence (a lynch result) to base a towncore.

a bad d1 lynch, depending how it goes bad, is evidence that your towncore is weird--or at least not large enough.

ALSO EVERYONE IS FOR A TOWNCORE DAY 0???

There are 3 bad players, and right now, no one seems to be mad at that. I think it was nutella who used that logic to reason that JJJ was probably good. Could you also use that logic to reason towncore is probably bad?

What are you even talking about

towncore bad. finding baddies good.

[Esooa]

@Ellie
can you explain to me what you would catch me on in my mafia play

[EllieDelight]

Ellie why do you keep quoting my posts when you're responding to someone else's

oops quote is on the bottom from the site I'm used to. i didn't even notice i was going it lol

[EllieDelight]

no esooa im not because you would know what to avoid doing.

[Made]

You don’t reevaluate a towncore cause you kill wrongly once lol

no, but in this particular situation-- town has no empirical evidence (a lynch result) to base a towncore.

a bad d1 lynch, depending how it goes bad, is evidence that your towncore is weird--or at least not large enough.

ALSO EVERYONE IS FOR A TOWNCORE DAY 0???

There are 3 bad players, and right now, no one seems to be mad at that. I think it was nutella who used that logic to reason that JJJ was probably good. Could you also use that logic to reason towncore is probably bad?

Towncore just means a bunch of people are all really townie and all trust each other and vote together. Given that they all agree that everyone within the towncore is town, they vote out people outside the towncore until they hit scum. This is process of elimination. By definition it will hit some townies because that's how POE works, you aren't guaranteeing that you're hitting scum with each exe, you're guaranteeing that all the scum is in the exe targets and you will get them all eventually by working your way down the list.

I don't see why a towncore can't be formed early in the game if people have strong reads on each other tbh. Like Radiohead itself was a game like that, we had a strong towncore by mid day 1 and just exed everyone outside it and won easily.

i'm not saying towncore can't be formed early if people feel ready for it. It just doesn't feel like i'm reading a thread where that's the case. What i am reading is a thread where it feels like a lot of people are saying that's the case

[Esooa]

no esooa im not because you would know what to avoid doing.

lol .

[EllieDelight]

bruh if you're scum tho

[Esooa]

bruh if you're scum tho

what

[Alison]

gaslight is a strong word, but it is beneficial to a wolf to manipulate people by using true logic as often as possible, even when unnecessary.
it's like tmi-ing to be right without the need to use information.

And i didn't mean to imply mindless sheeping. You can be engaged with a game--and agree with players---and be wrong. That's what i'm getting at.

this towncore feels like it's been given manufactured consent. I don't think we have solid footing/trust to get a towncore at this particular moment, and i think it's inaccurate to say that's where we're at.

Yes, wolves often use correct logic because it's more convincing. That doesn't mean that the act of using correct logic is inherently manipulative or wolfy. Wolves have TMI on alignments, not motivations. Me being a wolf doesn't give me extra insight into Esooa's reasoning, so me assuming Esooa's reasoning isn't TMI - it was a wrong assumption anyway.

I don't think manufactured consent is at play here. Basically everyone interested in a towncore has been pretty happy to do so, and in JJJ's case, happy even when they're not in it. They're not like "well I'm not really feeling this but I guess X said we had to towncore, so we're going to towncore". The general sentiment is "fuck yeah I trust these players they're great, I wanna team up with them!" The sentiments are unprompted and natural feeling (at least to my eye), suggesting that mafia isn't setting townies up to support a towncore against their best interests. It's just townies being happy that they've found another townie.

[staypositivefriend]

@Made -

if the consent for the "towncore" existing is manufactured in some way, that means that it is being manufactured by scum, right?

if a ~lot of people~ are saying that the towncore is a thing, then doesn't that mean that the towncore isnt manufactured by definition? unless you think 3 of the people saying it are all mafia?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Towncore is the best way to play

[Alison]

i'm not saying towncore can't be formed early if people feel ready for it. It just doesn't feel like i'm reading a thread where that's the case. What i am reading is a thread where it feels like a lot of people are saying that's the case

Many people have said they feel ready for me. Me and SPF have likened the game to Radiohead, where an early town core won the game. nanook said that he has 4 solid reads and that's good enough for a town core.

Can you show me some examples of someone saying that they're ready for a towncore but on the inside they actually aren't?

[EllieDelight]

bruh if you're scum tho

what

it would be funny af if you're actually scum. i think thats irony, maybe

[Made]

Okay y'all. Write out your hypotetical towncores, because i don't think they line up.

Like Alison, SPF isn't even in your towncore???

[tutuu]

me and esooa town
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost4592956

im mafia, esooa town
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/29268

I skimmed over the town game. You are clearly expressing lack of confidence, constantly saying sorry, calling your reads shit, etc.

I skimmed over the scum game. You use similar language but it's not as repeated.

I'm not sure why you're calling your town game more confident than your scum game. I agree with Eso's assessment that it's the other way around.

[staypositivefriend]

the thing that bothers me about made's issue with the "towncore" is that it feels like a half-finished thought

~if~ made believes that the towncore is coming from a place of manufactured consent, it logically follows that multiple people approving of the town-core are mafia

but i don't see much intent on their part to figure out who would be disingenuously supporting the towncore - it feels like a broad complaint that puts a lot of peoples alignment into question without getting into specifics

[staypositivefriend]

Okay y'all. Write out your hypotetical towncores, because i don't think they line up.

Like Alison, SPF isn't even in your towncore???

my towncore is nutella nanook alison

i don't think i'd feel comfortable with anyone outside of that atm

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

My towncore isn’t the same as my confident townreads wowee

[Alison]

Okay y'all. Write out your hypotetical towncores, because i don't think they line up.

Like Alison, SPF isn't even in your towncore???

They don't even have to. Not everyone in the towncore has to share the exact same reads. It's about a critical mass of trust coming into play. Sure, I may not have a solid reason to trust X personally, but I don't have any particular suspicion on them, and I trust Y and Z greatly, and Y and Z both trust X. So I extend trust to X as a result of that, and take them out of the POE. I don't need to directly townread everyone else in the towncore so much as I do need to not scumread them and trust that my actual townreads can read them.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m already in the towncore and Mac hasn’t even show up to Mason with me yet

What a world we live in

[tutuu]

I am going to trust Eso to read Ellie.

I am going to trust nutella to read Long Con.

I am going to trust Nanook to read MacDougall.

I have no reliable method of reading Grog or spf or JJJ and I wish I did. I think I can get around to Made on my own. I dunno who am I missing.