The Syndicate

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:56 pm**

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:56 pmI know. I support it. It's a thing. More of an "excuse tell" though.

Oh yeah. It comes in different forms.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:57 pm**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:55 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:54 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:53 pm I hope all you townies appreciate how terrified I was of you at every single point in this game.

I was going to case you so hard, but then I died.

You played so well though; I couldn't muster anything concrete against you all game other than tone and soft accusations like TMI.
Thanks man. We thought you were Gladys and were genuinely hammering Jay from a results perspective.

Nah, it's just PTSD from Phenon Origins.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pm**

except when i use it's not alignment indicative as much as it is quin-is-a-lazy-piece-of-shit indicative

remember that.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pm**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:53 pm Everyone - listen up:

Behold the mighty coffee tell!
Although it was not Scotty's doom - it fucking should have been.

Remember... the coffee...

This is a case of confirmation bias. I would have said something to that extent regardless. Colin and GMan talked about it today in chat- you all made some batshit accusations that we just didn’t understand, but in the end, the gut won out even if the mind didn’t piece it together logically

Aside from the fact that I was bad as shit, I was wholly honest when I said things. It’s all about playing from the civ perspective

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:00 pm**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:55 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:54 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:53 pm I hope all you townies appreciate how terrified I was of you at every single point in this game.

I was going to case you so hard, but then I died.

You played so well though; I couldn't muster anything concrete against you all game other than tone and soft accusations like TMI.
Thanks man. We thought you were Gladys and were genuinely hammering Jay from a results perspective.

Ah yeah, I made up all that stuff about going back on my MP read of JJJ because I didn’t think he was Gladys.

I was totally convinced he was Gladys up until his flip

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm**

This game has renewed some of that motivation I'd lost I think. It remains a thing that I simply do not have the time for it, but I know I'm going to have some free time from about August so I look forward to that.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pmThis is a case of confirmation bias. I would have said something to that extent regardless. Colin and GMan talked about it today in chat- you all made some batshit accusations that we just didn’t understand, but in the end, the gut won out even if the mind didn’t piece it together logically

Aside from the fact that I was bad as shit, I was wholly honest when I said things. It’s all about playing from the civ perspective

You weren't playing from a town perspective though, never mind the coffee, and I did catch on to that. Truth is, I'm a real coward. I'd rather lose by someone else's hand than fight for what I believe in. It's my worst trait as town. I shouldn't have let you go. But I did. And you played well and was slippery enough to sneak away.^^

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:02 pm**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pmThis is a case of confirmation bias. I would have said something to that extent regardless. Colin and GMan talked about it today in chat- you all made some batshit accusations that we just didn’t understand, but in the end, the gut won out even if the mind didn’t piece it together logically

Aside from the fact that I was bad as shit, I was wholly honest when I said things. It’s all about playing from the civ perspective
You weren't playing from a town perspective though, never mind the coffee, and I did catch on to that. Truth is, I'm a real coward. I'd rather lose by someone else's hand than fight for what I believe in. It's my worst trait as town. I shouldn't have let you go. But I did. And you played well and was slippery enough to sneak away.^^

Unfortunately I can relate here. I have to learn to be more confident sometimes, outside of dogpee moments anyway.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:02 pm**

If I was playing this game I would have lynched Scotty long ago.

It was interfering with his Genius play.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:04 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:02 pm If I was playing this game I would have lynched Scotty long ago.

It was interfering with his Genius play.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:04 pm**

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm This game has renewed some of that motivation I'd lost I think. It remains a thing that I simply do not have the time for it, but I know I'm going to have some free time from about August so I look forward to that.

This game has burned me out a bit. I didn’t have nearly the amount of time to play as I wanted and it became a chore sometimes :/

I’m taking a step back over the next year anyway for work reasons, so hopefully it will revitalize me for when I come back

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:05 pm**

Scotty going out on top like Peyton Manning. And just like Peyton Manning, I am convinced he’s juicing.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:06 pm**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pmThis is a case of confirmation bias. I would have said something to that extent regardless. Colin and GMan talked about it today in chat- you all made some batshit accusations that we just didn’t understand, but in the end, the gut won out even if the mind didn’t piece it together logically

Aside from the fact that I was bad as shit, I was wholly honest when I said things. It’s all about playing from the civ perspective
You weren't playing from a town perspective though, never mind the coffee, and I did catch on to that. Truth is, I'm a real coward. I'd rather lose by someone else's hand than fight for what I believe in. It's my worst trait as town. I shouldn't have let you go. But I did. And you played well and was slippery enough to sneak away.^^

The loss was because of me. All I had to do was vote Scotty and the votes would have been there. I knew that.

The one time in her life that nutella has ever sounded genuine to me was the one time I heavily defended her and she was on the bad team.

I am about 1 for 14 batting against nutella.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:06 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:02 pm If I was playing this game I would have lynched Scotty long ago.

It was interfering with his Genius play.

lol not really, I barely have time for that right now as it is.

But I appreciate your support.

Vote Montgomery 2019

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:10 pm**

My host notes are slim this time around (heck, I never finished my host notes on Chicka Chicka):

-All the civvies have first and/or last names of people who attend my church.

-Despite the irreverent and possibly sacrilegious nature of this game, I am actually a person of deeply-held religious beliefs. I'm just not afraid to get silly with and laugh at them a little.

-Lapluie checked Marmot Night 1, Colin Night 2, Quin Night 3, and would have checked Nutella Night 4. Not a single one of those were dentists. Tough break.

-Marmot tried to protect Colin Night 1 and Kylemii Night 2. Colin was bad and Kyle was a dentist, so neither protection worked. He failed to send in a protection Night 3 while he was off the grid and his Night 4 protection request came in after the deadline (would have been Jimmy).

-The whole info-dumping being legal thing was an experiment that blew up in my face. I'm sorry that things got screwy. I should have thought that through better.

-I liked having the cop be limited. They could confirm 2/3 of the civvies but wasn't capable of exposing someone as mafia outright. It was inspired by the split civvie make-up of Mad Max. I think it worked well even though Lapluie ran into a brick wall of bad luck.

-I don't know how I feel about the protector being limited. I'm on the fence there. The game would have been very different had Kyle survived Night 2 like Marmot intended.

-I don't think Caerbannog being godfather-like was overpowering the baddies. It worked well and added drama and tension. I was torn between making Caerbannog just survive his first lynch or be godfather-like. What say you?

-I stumbled upon the medieval killer bunny pictures almost by accident. Through in a few martyr paintings and one of a medieval dentist, and it made for a nice touch and spared me from coming up with witty post titles.

-The civvies were fierce and the baddies were phenomenal. This really was a clash of excellence on both sides. I'm impressed by everyone. Thank you all for playing and making this silly little game about killer bunnies into an unforgettable experience. This cleansed my hosting palate of Chicka Chicka's lingering aftertaste.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:13 pm**

Considering how I didn’t know we won until the game was over, I didn’t find my role overpowered and actually loved being able to take the backseat for a few days, but maybe others disagree. In more capable hands it could certainly have been worse.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:16 pm**

I know unlynchable baddies have a bad aftertaste in some games. They didn't work in my burglary at least. If you include them you need to really think about game balance.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:17 pm**

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:06 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pmThis is a case of confirmation bias. I would have said something to that extent regardless. Colin and GMan talked about it today in chat- you all made some batshit accusations that we just didn’t understand, but in the end, the gut won out even if the mind didn’t piece it together logically

Aside from the fact that I was bad as shit, I was wholly honest when I said things. It’s all about playing from the civ perspective
You weren't playing from a town perspective though, never mind the coffee, and I did catch on to that. Truth is, I'm a real coward. I'd rather lose by someone else's hand than fight for what I believe in. It's my worst trait as town. I shouldn't have let you go. But I did. And you played well and was slippery enough to sneak away.^^
The loss was because of me. All I had to do was vote Scotty and the votes would have been there. I knew that.

The one time in her life that nutella has ever sounded genuine to me was the one time I heavily defended her and she was on the bad team.

I am about 1 for 14 batting against nutella.

But I could've fought you on it. I wanted to. I almost did. But I backed out of it. Because I would rather not have the "blame". Which is dumb, because this is fully a team game all the time. So I'm sorry I did not fight you on it harder.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:18 pm**

Yeah, I'm generally not a fan of unlynchable roles (especially mafia-aligned), but it certainly made this game more interesting.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:21 pm**

I was surprised too that people didn’t seize the role claiming thing earlier. In one of the earliest RYM games I broke it open by taking advantage of grouped civilians in a certain way when I was the cop and it was pretty damn hard for scum to fight that. Good that the intervention happened when it did.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:23 pm**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:21 pm I was surprised too that people didn’t seize the role claiming thing earlier. In one of the earliest RYM games I broke it open by taking advantage of grouped civilians in a certain way when I was the cop and it was pretty damn hard for scum to fight that. Good that the intervention happened when it did.

Claiming still isn't second nature for a lot of us around here who played games for years where it wasn't allowed.

Even I have taken advantage of claiming and fake claiming but somehow it eluded me here.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:31 pm**

Now everybody go sign up for more games so I have something to do at work.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:32 pm**

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:10 pm
-I don't think Caerbannog being godfather-like was overpowering the baddies. It worked well and added drama and tension. I was torn between making Caerbannog just survive his first lynch or be godfather-like. What say you?

I think that, on balance, mafia roles which cannot be lynched until all others are lynched are extremely powerful -- among the most powerful that faction can have. Not only does it prevent Colin being lynched on Day 4, but it leaves the mafia with two votes at all times -- LyLo came on Day 6 instead of Day 7 as a result.

That said, I don't blame you at all for that -- in a 12 vs. 3 game, one strong mafia role isn't a big deal. Perhaps this one was too strong, but the civilians have no room to complain. If everything was perfectly kosher, Epignosis would have never been removed from the POE pool, and he would have been every bit the suspect that Quin, nutella, and Scotty were in the last couple days. The mafia team got burned by that (and of course Epi didn't intend any shenanigans, it was an understandable accident) -- they had to overcome a serious suspect instantly turning into essentially a confirmed civilian. If Caerbannog was too strong, that tipped the balance back.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:35 pm**

As always G-Man, you hosted a fun, flavorful game which exploded. Thank you.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:36 pm**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:31 pm Now everybody go sign up for more games so I have something to do at work.

Yes. And now that this game is over, I'm hosting the next heist (with sockpuppets). Still could use 3-8 more folks.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:37 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:32 pm
G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:10 pm
-I don't think Caerbannog being godfather-like was overpowering the baddies. It worked well and added drama and tension. I was torn between making Caerbannog just survive his first lynch or be godfather-like. What say you?
I think that, on balance, mafia roles which cannot be lynched until all others are lynched are extremely powerful -- among the most powerful that faction can have. Not only does it prevent Colin being lynched on Day 4, but it leaves the mafia with two votes at all times -- LyLo came on Day 6 instead of Day 7 as a result.

That said, I don't blame you at all for that -- in a 12 vs. 3 game, one strong mafia role isn't a big deal. Perhaps this one was too strong, but the civilians have no room to complain. If everything was perfectly kosher, Epignosis would have never been removed from the POE pool, and he would have been every bit the suspect that Quin, nutella, and Scotty were in the last couple days. The mafia team got burned by that (and of course Epi didn't intend any shenanigans, it was an understandable accident) -- they had to overcome a serious suspect instantly turning into essentially a confirmed civilian. If Caerbannog was too strong, that tipped the balance back.

I agree with this assessment.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:37 pm**

Two votes that, if used as a block, could reveal the teammate. Scotty having "Vote counts as 2" while colin had nothing would potentially have provided the same result for the baddies with less risk?

Perhaps the best use for Colin was wifom?

I love the chutzpah of leaving Jay alive. From an external perspective, scotty's performance feels a little like my Economics one.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:39 pm**

I rarely seem to get killed, especially early.

And at 4-straight losses, I can't blame anyone. Let me screw up.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:40 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:37 pm Two votes that, if used as a block, could reveal the teammate. Scotty having "Vote counts as 2" while colin had nothing would potentially have provided the same result for the baddies with less risk?

Perhaps the best use for Colin was wifom?

I love the chutzpah of leaving Jay alive. From an external perspective, scotty's performance feels a little like my Economics one.

Yeah, I was pretty afraid of fucking things up for Scotty both votes but my desperation Hail Mary would have been to vote for him 3 minutes before EOD today if I had to. I just kinda talked shit the last few phases and that was it.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:40 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:39 pm I rarely seem to get killed, especially early.

And at 4-straight losses, I can't blame anyone. Let me screw up.

If it makes you feel any better, if I was mafia I definitely would have killed you.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm**

After Choutas got booted I was afraid of Jay getting protected and losing the numbers game, and we just never had a better opportunity to do away with him. I regretted that decision basically the whole game

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm**

I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:44 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.

I see what you’re saying. Totally true.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:45 pm**

I am taking a very long break from Mafia. I have been trying to do it, but I find myself signing up at the last minute to help games take off. This time I must refrain.

I need to have a productive summer, and then fall classes will resume. I might consider a burglary here or there.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:46 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.

Is it different to or equal to scotty's vote being worth 2? Different because you could devise a tie plan to counter a double vote?

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:47 pm**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:44 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.
I see what you’re saying. Totally true.

I certainly don't take anything away from y'all. I think this was possibly the most well-played heist we've ever had by both factions. I've rarely experienced such a hard-fought defeat. Y'all had to endure a lot to get here, and you got here.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:49 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:46 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.
Is it different to or equal to scotty's vote being worth 2? Different because you could devise a tie plan to counter a double vote?

Usually when I implement roles like that, I specifically indicate "the bonus vote does not function during elimination phases" to avoid things like this. I hate it when vote shenanigans infect a beautiful endgame.

(That's not what happened here)

In a LyLo scenario their utility is similar. Overall, a bad guy who straight up can't be lynched until X is stronger. That means that at the very least, a no lynch is going to happen if the civilians aren't perfect in their order of operations. No lynches are balls.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:49 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:47 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:44 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.
I see what you’re saying. Totally true.
I certainly don't take anything away from y'all. I think this was possibly the most well-played heist we've ever had by both factions. I've rarely experienced such a hard-fought defeat. Y'all had to endure a lot to get here, and you got here.

Absolutely. I appreciate that a lot. Don’t stay away from the games forever, you’ll get stronger if you have time to rest and then you’ll be unstoppable!

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:50 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:49 pm No lynches are balls.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:50 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:45 pm I am taking a very long break from Mafia. I have been trying to do it, but I find myself signing up at the last minute to help games take off. This time I must refrain.

I need to have a productive summer, and then fall classes will resume. I might consider a burglary here or there.

I wanna do this but I've already sold myself to retrocausality.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:51 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:49 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:46 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.
Is it different to or equal to scotty's vote being worth 2? Different because you could devise a tie plan to counter a double vote?
Usually when I implement roles like that, I specifically indicate "the bonus vote does not function during elimination phases" to avoid things like this. I hate it when vote shenanigans infect a beautiful endgame. (That's not what happened here)

In a LyLo scenario their utility is similar. Overall, a bad guy who straight up can't be lynched until X is stronger. That means that at the very least, a no lynch is going to happen if the civilians aren't perfect in their order of operations. No lynches are balls.

Oh, yes, I see what you're saying... because even though Colin is outed, you still need a day at the end to lynch him...

Yeah, so it's definitely strong then. It adds a day phase PLUS a lylo reduction of a day phase... effectively it shifts the balance by two phases.

Posted: **Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:52 pm**

My most recent break was very good for helping me be selective upon return. I no longer have the time for everything, but I have the time for a few things.

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:34 am**

The coffee though...anyways congrats mafia, I was lurking behind the scenes.

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:12 am**

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:50 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:45 pm I am taking a very long break from Mafia. I have been trying to do it, but I find myself signing up at the last minute to help games take off. This time I must refrain.

I need to have a productive summer, and then fall classes will resume. I might consider a burglary here or there.
I wanna do this but I've already sold myself to retrocausality.

ya me2

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:36 am**

Guys I was terrible and thought I would have gotten a free pass because I'm not a regular. It was a mountain to climb for Scotty and Colin so kudos to them for fighting against the odds and not surrender.
Also to the mod for the setup and the game.
And the rest of town for making it fun and edgy.

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:27 am**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm After Choutas got booted I was afraid of Jay getting protected and losing the numbers game, and we just never had a better opportunity to do away with him. I regretted that decision basically the whole game

That's understandable.

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:28 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:45 pm I am taking a very long break from Mafia. I have been trying to do it, but I find myself signing up at the last minute to help games take off. This time I must refrain.

I need to have a productive summer, and then fall classes will resume. I might consider a burglary here or there.

You'll be back in due time.

No, but seriously, enjoy the break. When I took my break most of last year, I hated it at first, but it really did wonders for my IRL (dissertation namely) and motivation to play. Now I'm in full addict mode again. Can't get enough.

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:30 am**

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:34 am The coffee though...anyways congrats mafia, I was lurking behind the scenes.

Here's the thing now with the coffee tell. Now that we all know about it, will it still be meaningful?

I guess I can try to use it on people in the Champs game or elsewhere though.

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:31 am**

Choutas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:36 am Guys I was terrible and thought I would have gotten a free pass because I'm not a regular. It was a mountain to climb for Scotty and Colin so kudos to them for fighting against the odds and not surrender.
Also to the mod for the setup and the game.
And the rest of town for making it fun and edgy.

It's a shame you weren't able to play it more because I was looking forward to playing with you again, but these things happen. Hopefully again soon.

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:44 am**

Choutas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:36 am Guys I was terrible and thought I would have gotten a free pass because I'm not a regular. It was a mountain to climb for Scotty and Colin so kudos to them for fighting against the odds and not surrender.
Also to the mod for the setup and the game.
And the rest of town for making it fun and edgy.

Your random comment toward MacMarmot almost gave us the game in a way and we made a lot of lemonade from your lynch. I hope you sign up for something else soon!

The Syndicate

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