The Syndicate

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:01 pm

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:58 pm

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:50 pm also, I had a sudden bout of regret for not doing it when I thought day was ending soon, so lets do it!

premise:
mafia chose to take away your choice to vote me.
this is likely for reasons people have said and that I think sound reasonable!
you don't like that. I don't like that either.
so let's do a little thing:
I wanna make myself a focus for the day by force!

let's divide thread into two sides.
Team Let's-Ml-Tilga-D3
and Team Let's-Not-Do-That

fun thing?
you can't exe me today anyways, so it doesn't matter too much which side you choose.
this is about reasoning & making yourself readable, and about not letting mafia choose what town does or doesn't get to do.

so to that effect, what I want from you is:

- Pick a side. either is fine.

- Explain why you picked the side you did. am I sus, why? am I not sus enough, why? am I town, why?

- Don't forget that you'll have to vote somebody out in 28 hours. you're welcome to use this and people's reasoning for that, but keep in mind it's not about which side people chose, it's about the reasoning they provide. town can be wrong, and mafia can be right!

- let's have fun. I'll be honest, I kinda enjoy this situation, even though this is most likely a super ego play right here. And regardless of what side you're on, we're currently playing a game together, so I hope you all are having fun too!

@Alison
@Belzy
@Chamomile
@dyachei
@EnderWiggin
@ilario
@Lilypetal
@MacDougall
@Millium
@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
@Neon
@Porscha
@RondoDimBuckle
@santygrass
@Seanzie

ask me questions, chopose a side!
I'll be doing my best to get answers to any questions you have for me, even if I do not currently have them, so ask away. ask what you need to make your choice, ask what you want to know.
I firmly believe this is a pro-town move, even if I end up being the D3 exe.
Thank you for participating!

No.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:02 pm You are literally the least important person to spend energy solving right now.

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:03 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:02 pm You are literally the least important person to spend energy solving right now.

it's not about solving me. it's about solving everybody else

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:04 pm

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:03 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:02 pm You are literally the least important person to spend energy solving right now.

it's not about solving me. it's about solving everybody else

no.

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:08 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:04 pm

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:03 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:02 pm You are literally the least important person to spend energy solving right now.

it's not about solving me. it's about solving everybody else

no.

if I'm mafia, this would mean forcing my wolf buddies to choose a side and be accounted for
if I'm town, this means wolves need to come up with convincing reasoning either way they choose, and I don't believe they expected to need to be doing that today if me being unvotable is really a power of theirs

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:16 pm

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:08 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:04 pm

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:03 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:02 pm You are literally the least important person to spend energy solving right now.

it's not about solving me. it's about solving everybody else

no.

if I'm mafia, this would mean forcing my wolf buddies to choose a side and be accounted for
if I'm town, this means wolves need to come up with convincing reasoning either way they choose, and I don't believe they expected to need to be doing that today if me being unvotable is really a power of theirs

All fine and dandy, but people don't have unlimited time/solving energy. Spending it casing you is bad IMO. Others can do what they want, but I think this is an anti-town suggestion you've offered and I for one will not partake.

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:26 pm tilg I'll be honest I'm undecided on what you are. but I think pushing you for the not being to vote mechanic is bad

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:31 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:26 pm tilg I'll be honest I'm undecided on what you are. but I think pushing you for the not being to vote mechanic is bad

anything I did that makes you lean either way?
maybe something specific that makes it hard for you?

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:31 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:26 pm tilg I'll be honest I'm undecided on what you are. but I think pushing you for the not being to vote mechanic is bad

anything I did that makes you lean either way?
maybe something specific that makes it hard for you?

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:50 pm also, I had a sudden bout of regret for not doing it when I thought day was ending soon, so lets do it!

premise:
mafia chose to take away your choice to vote me.
this is likely for reasons people have said and that I think sound reasonable!
you don't like that. I don't like that either.
so let's do a little thing:
I wanna make myself a focus for the day by force!

let's divide thread into two sides.
Team Let's-Ml-Tilg-D3
and Team Let's-Not-Do-That

fun thing?
you can't exe me today anyways, so it doesn't matter too much which side you choose.
this is about reasoning & making yourself readable, and about not letting mafia choose what town does or doesn't get to do.

so to that effect, what I want from you is:

- Pick a side. either is fine.

- Explain why you picked the side you did. am I sus, why? am I not sus enough, why? am I town, why?

- Don't forget that you'll have to vote somebody out in 28 hours. you're welcome to use this and people's reasoning for that, but keep in mind it's not about which side people chose, it's about the reasoning they provide. town can be wrong, and mafia can be right!

- let's have fun. I'll be honest, I kinda enjoy this situation, even though this is most likely a super ego play right here. And regardless of what side you're on, we're currently playing a game together, so I hope you all are having fun too!

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:36 pm So I wrote this with the viewpoint that it would be read after I flip green when I thought EOD was in 2 hours and I was locked in as the exe. If you currently don't believe I'll flip green then that's fine, you can save this for if/when I get voted off and read it then. Or treat it as a hypothetical. Up to you.

I have an extremely good track record at obtaining multiple pelts when I am voted off because I am good at identifying the people on my wagon who are there for genuine reasons and the people who are mafia. So you should sheep me. If you don't sheep me then I'm not responsible for the consequences.

The people on my wagon are as follows: EnderWiggin, Chamomile, santygrass, Neon, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

It is absolutely guaranteed that there are 2+ mafia on this list. I am a claimed PR and the arguments against me are bad but the players voting me aren't trolls which means that there is malicious intent here.

Santygrass is almost certainly one of them as he is the architect of most of the bad arguments and has been attacking me in bad faith for the entire game. I have too much respect for his play to consider the possibility that he might be wrong town and he wasn't even this bad in Spiritfarer so I have no choice but to deduce that he is pretending to be Spiritfarer Santy in order to justify his openwolfing.

EnderWiggin has done absolutely nothing that is townie but Aro shielded him so I guess he can live for a while more. But he has a pretty bad track record reads wise so I'd say he's on thin ice and should be made to do townie things.

Chamomile is playing exactly as I would expect a 3P to play. Assuming they are not 3P my first instinct would be that they are town and not mafia because of the lack of self preservation instinct along with the fact that they are setting up to park on me and do nothing but haven't done so. I don't really understand what their agenda is if they are mafia which suggests they don't have a mafia agenda.

I'll sheep Illario on Neon and say she is mafia especially since she has weird mech question marks surrounding her.

Nanook is an interesting case. Overall I think he has actually been playing like town Nanook but it hasn't escaped my notice that he is playing in a very scum sided way (roleblocking me D1 and vote parking me D2 with no explanation given). There are reasons and justifications and it's why I haven't gone after him harder. My honest suggestion is to pick off the obvious mafia (outlined above) first and then policy Nanook for scumsiding if he's still alive after that. If he has a way to clear himself he would have used it by then. Or be killed for it.

-

Next we will examine the rest of the game. Tilgarial and Porscha are top suspects for reasons I have already explained. Lilypetal and Macdougall have both been playing obscenely closely to their town meta and are either snowing me or just town. I will presume the latter since I have seen no evidence they are snowing me. Macdougall is shielding Belzy so let's assume he's right about her.

Illario is perhaps the most likely to be actually snowing me but I find it hard to disagree with his reads and solve. That is to say either he is town or I am inting. If you follow this legacy and it becomes clear that I am not inting then you can probably give Illario the thumbs up until endgame. dyachei has been playing in a mostly unobjectionable way. I actually think there is a chance they are wolf skating by but the correct way to deal with this possibility is simply to catch their teammates and follow the trail back to them. This averts the possibility that they are simply town because it is very unlikely that they will be a prime target for being falsely spewed as mafia partners with a wolf. So if you find the trail you know it's real, if you don't then you can let it rest for a bit. Let's hope that dyachei's partners aren't good at anti spew if they are maf.

Rondo and Millium are two players that I policy every game so perhaps someone who is not me will have a more objective eye on what to do with them. I'll be lazy and make them someone else's problem to sort.

Seanzie is obscenely town. I am just going to take him as lock town, if he is town then I am right. If he is wolf then I don't mind getting snowed and will update my read on him in the future to avoid it happening again. Let's see how that goes.

-

I am pretty confident that following this blueprint will take you at least 80-90% of the way to winning the game if not 100% of the way. I am content if I die today because I believe that enough mafia will have outed themselves in order to push my death that we can win the game off that. The important thing is to not let them go because they have good tone or whatever nonsense and to simply hold the people who wrongfully killed me accountable. Town cannot lose if we play in a manner to maximize accountability and good order.

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:39 pm

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:31 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:26 pm tilg I'll be honest I'm undecided on what you are. but I think pushing you for the not being to vote mechanic is bad

anything I did that makes you lean either way?
maybe something specific that makes it hard for you?

I think you're playing in a way that's harder to take fault with or call good solving. feels very middle of the road and I dont have meta with you to look at

what do you think of your play this game?

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:40 pm the read on me feels like a copout and I expect better from you

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:47 pm Oh yeah and if we don't have a single pelt by D4 it is absolutely and completely guaranteed that there is a mafia between Mac and Illario. This is especially true if Tilgarial is town since he has been their shared punching bag.

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:39 pm

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:31 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:26 pm tilg I'll be honest I'm undecided on what you are. but I think pushing you for the not being to vote mechanic is bad

anything I did that makes you lean either way?
maybe something specific that makes it hard for you?

I think you're playing in a way that's harder to take fault with or call good solving. feels very middle of the road and I dont have meta with you to look at

what do you think of your play this game?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:47 pm Oh yeah and if we don't have a single pelt by D4 it is absolutely and completely guaranteed that there is a mafia between Mac and Illario. This is especially true if Tilgarial is town since he has been their shared punching bag.

santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:35 pm @MacDougall can you tell Alison that their push on me is atrocious, that you also townread me and that they should look at other slots? I want mainly to see if Alison chooses to further out themselves or find another slot to spew

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:27 pm I'm townreading both too.

I just think it's hard to visualize a world where Mac and Illario are both town and we don't get a wolf by D4.

It can happen (see finale) if they self destruct hard enough but I don't see evidence of that happening this game.

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:27 pm I'm townreading both too.

I just think it's hard to visualize a world where Mac and Illario are both town and we don't get a wolf by D4.

It can happen (see finale) if they self destruct hard enough but I don't see evidence of that happening this game.

okay. I know you're sussing me here, but if you're town, please entertain for a bit the idea that I am, too. I assume you did that when you made that post, because otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

now, if I think of you as town, your wagon is currently the highest, so there is a fair chance you'll be the exe today.
there's a good deal of pressure on me for tomorrow already from different directions, and the furthest opinion opposite that that I'm aware of is fairly neutral. so yes, I've been operating under the assumption that I will be very likely the exe on D3.

what this means in a world of both you and me being town, is that there is a fairly obvious road towards a D4 with no pelts, and it is currently the one we are going down.

do you see why your sudden idea is concerning to me?

santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:38 pm My objective is not to you to get back off of me, its clear in my post. I want to see where would you push . /Shrug

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:40 pm

santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:38 pm My objective is not to you to get back off of me, its clear in my post. I want to see where would you push . /Shrug

Yeah, it's hard to know where I'd push on other than you. If only there was a big post outlining detailed reads on every player in the game and how I feel about them.

santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:40 pm If you are town then you will to likely analyze how you play the game because your legacy well... It is clearly wolf motivated /shrug .

Wont go into detail rn but I see dunk material there on your case

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:39 pm
If you're town the best thing to do is to vote Santy off. Since there's no way that Santy and you are both town, so...

santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:40 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:40 pm

santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:38 pm My objective is not to you to get back off of me, its clear in my post. I want to see where would you push . /Shrug

Yeah, it's hard to know where I'd push on other than you. If only there was a big post outlining detailed reads on every player in the game and how I feel about them.

You also sussed Porscha, but didnt push there in the slightlest

Tilgarial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:41 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:39 pm
If you're town the best thing to do is to vote Santy off. Since there's no way that Santy and you are both town, so...

where does that dichotomy come from?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:45 pm Apparently Porscha is getting cop checked by Lily tonight so we should at least wait until D3.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:47 pm Alison what's your legacy?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:47 pm Alison what's your legacy?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:36 pm So I wrote this with the viewpoint that it would be read after I flip green when I thought EOD was in 2 hours and I was locked in as the exe. If you currently don't believe I'll flip green then that's fine, you can save this for if/when I get voted off and read it then. Or treat it as a hypothetical. Up to you.

I have an extremely good track record at obtaining multiple pelts when I am voted off because I am good at identifying the people on my wagon who are there for genuine reasons and the people who are mafia. So you should sheep me. If you don't sheep me then I'm not responsible for the consequences.

The people on my wagon are as follows: EnderWiggin, Chamomile, santygrass, Neon, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

It is absolutely guaranteed that there are 2+ mafia on this list. I am a claimed PR and the arguments against me are bad but the players voting me aren't trolls which means that there is malicious intent here.

Santygrass is almost certainly one of them as he is the architect of most of the bad arguments and has been attacking me in bad faith for the entire game. I have too much respect for his play to consider the possibility that he might be wrong town and he wasn't even this bad in Spiritfarer so I have no choice but to deduce that he is pretending to be Spiritfarer Santy in order to justify his openwolfing.

EnderWiggin has done absolutely nothing that is townie but Aro shielded him so I guess he can live for a while more. But he has a pretty bad track record reads wise so I'd say he's on thin ice and should be made to do townie things.

Chamomile is playing exactly as I would expect a 3P to play. Assuming they are not 3P my first instinct would be that they are town and not mafia because of the lack of self preservation instinct along with the fact that they are setting up to park on me and do nothing but haven't done so. I don't really understand what their agenda is if they are mafia which suggests they don't have a mafia agenda.

I'll sheep Illario on Neon and say she is mafia especially since she has weird mech question marks surrounding her.

Nanook is an interesting case. Overall I think he has actually been playing like town Nanook but it hasn't escaped my notice that he is playing in a very scum sided way (roleblocking me D1 and vote parking me D2 with no explanation given). There are reasons and justifications and it's why I haven't gone after him harder. My honest suggestion is to pick off the obvious mafia (outlined above) first and then policy Nanook for scumsiding if he's still alive after that. If he has a way to clear himself he would have used it by then. Or be killed for it.

-

Next we will examine the rest of the game. Tilgarial and Porscha are top suspects for reasons I have already explained. Lilypetal and Macdougall have both been playing obscenely closely to their town meta and are either snowing me or just town. I will presume the latter since I have seen no evidence they are snowing me. Macdougall is shielding Belzy so let's assume he's right about her.

Illario is perhaps the most likely to be actually snowing me but I find it hard to disagree with his reads and solve. That is to say either he is town or I am inting. If you follow this legacy and it becomes clear that I am not inting then you can probably give Illario the thumbs up until endgame. dyachei has been playing in a mostly unobjectionable way. I actually think there is a chance they are wolf skating by but the correct way to deal with this possibility is simply to catch their teammates and follow the trail back to them. This averts the possibility that they are simply town because it is very unlikely that they will be a prime target for being falsely spewed as mafia partners with a wolf. So if you find the trail you know it's real, if you don't then you can let it rest for a bit. Let's hope that dyachei's partners aren't good at anti spew if they are maf.

Rondo and Millium are two players that I policy every game so perhaps someone who is not me will have a more objective eye on what to do with them. I'll be lazy and make them someone else's problem to sort.

Seanzie is obscenely town. I am just going to take him as lock town, if he is town then I am right. If he is wolf then I don't mind getting snowed and will update my read on him in the future to avoid it happening again. Let's see how that goes.

-

I am pretty confident that following this blueprint will take you at least 80-90% of the way to winning the game if not 100% of the way. I am content if I die today because I believe that enough mafia will have outed themselves in order to push my death that we can win the game off that. The important thing is to not let them go because they have good tone or whatever nonsense and to simply hold the people who wrongfully killed me accountable. Town cannot lose if we play in a manner to maximize accountability and good order.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:45 pm Apparently Porscha is getting cop checked by Lily tonight so we should at least wait until D3.

I thought it was a dayphase thing?

@Lilypetal tonight mech or today mech?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:49 pm Until Lily answers I'm going to pull what I call a pro-gamer move:

[VOTE: Santygrass] aubergine