Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://mafiathesyndicate.com/
But I've obtained nutella definitions. This is huge. Nutella is normally hard to read. I now know how nutella feels like when she's part of a towncore, because it wasn't present here.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 pm Omg I was so happy about reading Jay and nutella correctly I didn't notice Mac was bad too.
Damn.
I need to scrap my Mac definitions. They suck.
I have mixed feelings. On balance, I don't like the setup. Randomizing alignments to this set of roles means that the game can be super skewed in either direction depending upon the dice.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm I also think that the build, at least in this sites meta, favoured us. No night chat was a big deal.
Strongly agree. Thread lock during night is a substantial skew in the mafia's favor. I know it's pretty standard on many other sites but I think perhaps a couple other details about this setup combined with it give the mafia an unfair advantage, and judging by how the champs games so far are going I just might be right.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm I also think that the build, at least in this sites meta, favoured us. No night chat was a big deal.
i'll never have the drive to get good at 2, i want people to develop a talent for reading my brain instead.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:54 pmI developed 3 first and I think recently I've been developing 1.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pmHave good instincts.Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pmWhile we're talking about what makes a good civilian, this right here is the most undervalued aspect of strong civilian play in my experience. Producing accurate reads is only half the battle. Other people need to be on board with those reads too.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm I just need to learn how to convince other people now.
Unless you're a vigilante. But vigilantes are dumb.
Be compelling in your cases.
Know when you drop a bad case and follow someone else.
I personally have always had number one but I only developed number two and three very recently.
Only 2 left I guess.
I'm locked in an "agressive Mac = civ" tell which has worked before but it's clearly not an actual pattern.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:46 pmWhen you think you know the answers I change the questions.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 pm Omg I was so happy about reading Jay and nutella correctly I didn't notice Mac was bad too.
Damn.
I need to scrap my Mac definitions. They suck.
Fair enough about kill suppression dangers, but still the randomized roles mean that mafia can safely claim and stuffJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:56 pmI have mixed feelings. On balance, I don't like the setup. Randomizing alignments to this set of roles means that the game can be super skewed in either direction depending upon the dice.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm I also think that the build, at least in this sites meta, favoured us. No night chat was a big deal.
In our case, I think the mafia team had one significant disadvantage: we couldn't kill anyone we wanted to kill until Night 5. Two jailers, two doctors, one JOAT, two trackers, and two watchers -- holy hell we had to tip toe around every damned thing to get anything done.
Locked nights were a huge advantage for us though. Just imagine if DDL had been able to rip us a new asshole on Night 5 before we killed him. That made a big difference in this game.
Going into the tournament a lot of the chatter on MU was about how much the setup favors town. But, in this game at least, it seemed like every break went in favor of you guys. None of the roles are really that powerful, unless both vigilantes roll town and then hit scum on their shots, and the locked night thread is definitely an advantage for mafia. Though I did agree with some of the folks who commented elsewhere that it was a bit of a relief to have space to step away from the game without feeling any pressure about doing so.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm I also think that the build, at least in this sites meta, favoured us. No night chat was a big deal.
Thank you. I'll put this in my mind in a safe box.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:49 pmOk learn this one thing.Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pmThe only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pmIt didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.
There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.
You suck at scumhunting.
I suck at scumhunting.
Everyone sucks at scumhunting.
This thing is not exact science. If it was no one would play mafia because it would be boring. All tells stop working the moment someone points them out, because mafia can adapt. WIFOM is everywhere. All methods are fallible.
The best town players don't make a 100% win chance, they just barely push it above 50%.
That doesn't mean you can never trust your instincts, but if winning as a team is hard, winning alone is nearly impossible. You will get some reads wrong every game, and you need other townies to help you find the right direction. Damn, people are praising me now and I voted for a townie last night.
So you need to learn to doubt yourself. Your instincts could be right, but they could be wrong. Learn to be aware of that at all times. Listen to other people. They may be onto something you're not. That doesn't mean you need to lose your initiative, but you need to learn to control it. Don't be a sheep, but don't be a blind wolf either.
No one will provide a solid argument for why you are wrong because no one is sure of it either.Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:50 pmLol, can't help it. Just what happens when I have a super strong scum read on someone and I haven't been convinced otherwise.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:38 pmThat's definitely not the mistake you made.
The mistake you made was being overconfident on your baddie reads.
Oh of course, all of that can happen. That's why this game is so hard, for both factions.Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:00 pm Just one thing I want to argue though. Town can adapt as well, or just become better than they did last DP. If mafia is going to adapt to make sure that they will change their play and remove the tells that were pointed out at first, then a townie can notice such awareness by the player and the desire to be a core town. I don't believe a townie should care(for the most part) about their scum tells and scumminess as long as they're still scum hunting and trying to game solve.
LOL
I would have pushed for lynching fura at least, and at least tried to get jack under more scrutiny than the undeserved zero, but Backpack was like the Mac of that game for me. I never would have sniffed him out.I don't do any of that.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:01 pm Y'all are raising good points about the composition of an ideal civilian. I have a five-pronged image now:
1) Make good reads / have good instincts (the dunyas and Macs)
2) Pursue those reads in such a manner that others will be compelled to follow (the Jays and Goldens)
3) Avoid the noose (the Epis)
4) Promote a thread climate conducive to effective hunting (the Slooneis and MPs)
5) Know when to play the role of the follower (numerous)
I smell an incoming uppity youtube presentation.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:01 pm Y'all are raising good points about the composition of an ideal civilian. I have a five-pronged image now:
1) Make good reads / have good instincts (the dunyas and Macs)
2) Pursue those reads in such a manner that others will be compelled to follow (the Jays and Goldens)
3) Avoid the noose (the Epis)
4) Promote a thread climate conducive to effective hunting (the Slooneis and MPs)
5) Know when to play the role of the follower (numerous)
Thank you for the reminder.
I've always felt the tournament itself favors mafia teams for the same reason you guys had an advantage here: nobody knows each other. It's super easy to get away with phony behavior when no one knows what your authentic self looks like.
A few days laternovaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:11 pm [VOTE: JJJ] aubergine
I don't believe your progression on Ultra.
Yeah that's another good point. We were just out there throwing around townreads based on wildly differing standards.Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:07 pmI've always felt the tournament itself favors mafia teams for the same reason you guys had an advantage here: nobody knows each other. It's super easy to get away with phony behavior when no one knows what your authentic self looks like.
That's not to say it's not an awesome event and tons of fun to participate in. But it's a thing.
Completely agree. Vigilante is such a volatile role. I don't like it. Hosting a game with two of them was an unpleasant sensation.
I have no idea what you're talking about
I don't object to them- I just hate playing as them. I hate fucking up a teammate's game.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:11 pm Vigilante is that role you add because it makes large games end faster but it doesn't actually help its faction as much.
I only ever considered shooting you for fun.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:12 pm I love being a vigilante. Such power. In the absence of a better idea I usually just shoot a lurker. It can be a great weapon though to use against someone who is good at getting out of lynches. I'm glad DDL wasn't a vigilante.
But I bet juliets doesSloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:14 pm
My kind of man.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:12 pm I love being a vigilante. Such power. In the absence of a better idea I usually just shoot a lurker. It can be a great weapon though to use against someone who is good at getting out of lynches. I'm glad DDL wasn't a vigilante.
Mafia gets a say in that though.Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:13 pm Like, my whole Civilian Doctrine is about functioning as a team. A vigilante is the antithesis of that. It's one player tasked with eliminating another player on their own.
Whenever I'm a vigilante or have a gun I try to make it a public decision as best I can. If info dumping is allowed I just tell everyone I've got a gun and ask who I should shoot.
48 hr DP is still doable if I have to commit less, probably.dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:55 pmThe job is likely to be starting soonest, but if your champs is in 2 weeks, I dunno if you wanna commit to 48/24 phases in a 20-player game. Up to you!
Which champs # game are you in?
Yup. We targeted Jack on N1 thinking it was a high-productivity kill with less likelihood of being protected. But then I got jailed instead of Jack. So.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:17 pm I had Jay as Town past N2 'cause I was role-cop and copped him as Voyeur. I figured if he performed the kill, it'd have been spiked as strongman, so the failed kill wasn't him getting blocked rather him getting protected.
I guess he didn't modify it on N1
They do, but mafia has a say in everything that happens in the thread so they've already influenced me before I start waving my gun around. And telling people I'm packing heat produces some valuable reactions.Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:16 pmMafia gets a say in that though.Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:13 pm Like, my whole Civilian Doctrine is about functioning as a team. A vigilante is the antithesis of that. It's one player tasked with eliminating another player on their own.
Whenever I'm a vigilante or have a gun I try to make it a public decision as best I can. If info dumping is allowed I just tell everyone I've got a gun and ask who I should shoot.
I hated this particular vigilante spot because I'm required to act on a certain night. That sucks. I can't hold my shot until I'm ready. I'm like that guy in American Pie.
Oh, a link to signup would be great!Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:17 pm48 hr DP is still doable if I have to commit less, probably.dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:55 pmThe job is likely to be starting soonest, but if your champs is in 2 weeks, I dunno if you wanna commit to 48/24 phases in a 20-player game. Up to you!
Which champs # game are you in?
Worse case scenario I can use it as an excuse in my champs game if the two cross over
Also, I plan on starting a sopranos game soon on The Millennium Forums. No exact date yet. If any of you would be interested in that.
Feel free to link us there. We've also got a thread for off-site games here, if you feel like advertising to everyone on the Syndicate. We only bite a little bit.
I've seen Soneji play a few times and he's a pretty tough read because he minimizes inconsistencies in his meta with low volume but high effort wall posts.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:06 pm On another news, after 5 years I still have zero idea of how to read @Soneji
And when I complained to him on Discord, he told me my case was good for lynching WPK but not for lynching Soneji (WPK is how he's called in NF)
Because apparently he plays different here.
Godanmit.
Noted.Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:28 pmI've seen Soneji play a few times and he's a pretty tough read because he minimizes inconsistencies in his meta with low volume but high effort wall posts.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:06 pm On another news, after 5 years I still have zero idea of how to read @Soneji
And when I complained to him on Discord, he told me my case was good for lynching WPK but not for lynching Soneji (WPK is how he's called in NF)
Because apparently he plays different here.
Godanmit.
Aside from scrutinizing his reasoning I think a good approach for him or the "analysis" type players is to try and get into their mindset and ask if what he picked out from the thread makes sense. For example, are they not scrutinizing a certain player when they should, or are they focusing on the most relevant situations of the thread? Are they being stiff and non-topical? Do you strongly vibe with their points? etc
Good to knowSloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:26 pmFeel free to link us there. We've also got a thread for off-site games here, if you feel like advertising to everyone on the Syndicate. We only bite a little bit.
I may check it out, but I'm not sure I can sign up for this game right now. A) Because I'm not sure I can fit another game into my schedule at the moment, and B) because The Sopranos is near the very top of my Shows I Should Watch list and I don't want to risk exposing myself to spoilers before I get to it.
