The Hobbit Mafia: Day 12

[Kylemii]

Lol, nice. Well, I don't believe in voting for some one who is insanified because I don't like voting for someone who can't defend unless there Isabel iron clad case against them. So my vote will likely go to Metalmarsh or Kyle today.

wait why me?

Just process of elimination. You are not one of those I feel like I trust, so you are on my list of possible baddies. Apparently Epi trusts you though...

hmmm i can understand that, i haven't done much of note so it makes sense that i'd still be on your unsure list

i promise i'm good though.

linkitis: voting records? what

[Epignosis]

Ok, that makes a difference. Then I would leave him on my list obviously, lol

[Spacedaisy]

Why the face?

[Epignosis]

Why the face?

Why is Kylemii still on your list?

[Dom]

Why am I on the poll?

A mistake

If INH gets to be on the poll, I want to be on there too!

Hehehe. :sheepishgrin:

llama, you can be on the next poll if you want.

Russ, if Llama gets to be on the poll, can I come back and be immune to lynches and NKs?

[Hedgeowl]

Why am I on the poll?

A mistake

If INH gets to be on the poll, I want to be on there too!

Hehehe. :sheepishgrin:

llama, you can be on the next poll if you want.

Russ, if Llama gets to be on the poll, can I come back and be immune to lynches and NKs?

[Spacedaisy]

Why the face?

Why is Kylemii still on your list?

My list of possible baddies? I have repeatedly said it is because when I eliminate those I believe I trust, he is one of the ones I have not eliminated...

[Marmot]

I do what works?

See my previous post re: throwing out random crap to see what works. If you don't have anything to base a vote on or for me to defend against then I don't see why I should care what you think about my alignment. It would be pointless to continue this conversation.

Look, someone has to be Smaug. You're someone.

But you don't have any reason for why me over anyone else. For all I know you've literally randomized to find the person who you'd next push for a bandwagon on. You have explained nothing and given no reason for why anybody should vote for me so I don't know what you expect. I could say the exact same about you.

You could, but I'm not sure how you'd work this little tidbit into your narrative.

Do you know why that NK attempt was not listed at the bottom of the night post as "Epi survived a night kill..." while juliets' NK attempt from the goblins was?

[Marmot]

I do believe Splints is bad. Her posts of late have been very buddy buddy with people who seem to be more influential in the thread.

I agree here, but...

Ok, that makes a difference. Then I would leave him on my list obviously, lol

This and that look kinda the same.

[Epignosis]

Do you know why that NK attempt was not listed at the bottom of the night post as "Epi survived a night kill..." while juliets' NK attempt from the goblins was?

I like your question.

No, but it should have been.

[Spacedaisy]

I do believe Splints is bad. Her posts of late have been very buddy buddy with people who seem to be more influential in the thread.

I agree here, but...

Ok, that makes a difference. Then I would leave him on my list obviously, lol

This and that look kinda the same.

No, not really. He said basically Kyle was not a goblin. I thought he was saying he trusted Kyle and I wanted to know why. His response was he doesn't trust Kyle, he just doesn't think he is a goblin. What I was saying was basically, then this does not change my list any. He had not given me any reason to trust Kyle, which is what I was looking for. You look back over all my poss and I doubt that the word agreeable is really one that can be used to describe them, lol.

[fingersplints]

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[Marmot]

You look back over all my poss and I doubt that the word agreeable is really one that can be used to describe them, lol.

I'm sure you're right, but I also know you listed Kyle as a player you didn't realize was still playing, because he's hardly posted. Tbh, I should say the same about you. I've hardly heard a peep from you before today, but I guess your flying under the radar is your style. It is something I would expect of a baddie (Kyle possibly), but the timing of your resurgence does not indicate baddie to me.

I could see Kyle as a teammate of Bullzeye.

[fingersplints]

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[Marmot]

You see a difference between Kyle 2.0 and Kyle 1.0?

[Bullzeye]

You look back over all my poss and I doubt that the word agreeable is really one that can be used to describe them, lol.

I'm sure you're right, but I also know you listed Kyle as a player you didn't realize was still playing, because he's hardly posted. Tbh, I should say the same about you. I've hardly heard a peep from you before today, but I guess your flying under the radar is your style. It is something I would expect of a baddie (Kyle possibly), but the timing of your resurgence does not indicate baddie to me.

I could see Kyle as a teammate of Bullzeye.

You've probably realised from my exchange with Epi that if you're gonna throw something like that out then I expect you to back it up. So go on, how could you see me and Kyle as teammates?

[Marmot]

I've already put points forward before of why I've thought you're a goblin. They are not a thing of the past.

I took a look through Kyle's posts. Not once has he interacted with you. He did vote you yesterday, but even with a 5-2 lead in the polls (he put you up 4-2), you weren't lynched. You say that you don't know why you survived the lynch, or why llama took the brunt, but how often does a player survive a lynch without actually knowing what's going on? I do not believe you here. I have read your discussion with Epi today, but Epi was convinced you are Smaug (which is still a possibility).

And considering what fingers may have said, there is a clear difference between Kyle 1.0 and Kyle 2.0. Kyle 1.0. In the first couple days when he was alive, he'd put more effort to catch up and post/vote based on his own thoughts. The new Kyle seems less interested, which considering the number of players has been cut down to 30%, the game should be easier to keep up with.

er... i voted for bullz *crosses fingers*

just fyi there's no option to change votes in this poll

Also concerning his vote on Bullz, I feel like Kyle should have known he could only vote once. He had played earlier in the game.

[Bullzeye]

I took a look through Kyle's posts. Not once has he interacted with you. He did vote you yesterday, but even with a 5-2 lead in the polls (he put you up 4-2), you weren't lynched. You say that you don't know why you survived the lynch, or why llama took the brunt, but how often does a player survive a lynch without actually knowing what's going on? I do not believe you here. I have read your discussion with Epi today, but Epi was convinced you are Smaug (which is still a possibility).

So because we've never spoken at all there's a connection? As you point out, he was fourth to vote when Llama had 2. Meaning it was 3-2 at the time. He could've tied it up if I was his teammate. This late in the game you want all the surviving teammates you can get so your win comes quicker. I genuinely don't know how I survived. Look at the tone of my posts between the lynch end and the actual lynch post. I was expecting to die. My theory is K4J had a powerful vote, maybe because of his role or because he bought stuff. I don't know. Epi's belief I'm Smaug comes from literally nothing. He's admitted as much. That's my point. He thinks I might be Smaug because somebody definitely is. That is not a reason to vote for someone. It's not a case, it's not even a gut feeling. It's basically randomizing.

[Marmot]

You survived a lynch. That cannot be taken lightly.

[Bullzeye]

You survived a lynch. That cannot be taken lightly.

Have you seen the amount of manipulations you can buy? For about 4,000 gold you can buy enough votes that all of ours together don't matter. I know I had nothing to do with my survival and I wish K4J hadn't been killed because I have a feeling he knows exactly why I survived.

[Marmot]

If you were a civvy, why would someone else manipulate the lynch so that llama would die and you would survive?

That's definitely not the result I expected.

And where from this reaction do you get the idea k4j knew what was going on?

[Bullzeye]

If you were a civvy, why would someone else manipulate the lynch so that llama would die and you would survive?

That's definitely not the result I expected.

And where from this reaction do you get the idea k4j knew what was going on?

Because me and him were the only ones to vote for Llama. I didn't do anything so he might have. Or there was a switch or something. I don't know. I'm pretty sure I'm being set up by the baddies but I have no idea why they'd go to so much effort. Plus it might have just been to kill Llama. Though again I don't know why they wouldn't just NK him.

[Bullzeye]

Face it if my vote was strong enough to save me yesterday I'd have just admitted as much. There'd be no reason for me to lie. Civs can buy votes too.

[Snow Dog]

I might believe you Bullz. It certainly is not definite I will vote for you.

[juliets]

I might believe you Bullz. It certainly is not definite I will vote for you.

I am thinking the same thing Bullz. Your posts are seeming genuine. The strongest thing working against you is that Epig is sure you are bad and you have to admit he has been on point this game. I'm looking at alternatives and I can't promise i wont vote for you but at least I'm looking around. If you don't have to vote to save yourself who will you vote for today?

[Bullzeye]

I might believe you Bullz. It certainly is not definite I will vote for you.

I am thinking the same thing Bullz. Your posts are seeming genuine. The strongest thing working against you is that Epig is sure you are bad and you have to admit he has been on point this game. I'm looking at alternatives and I can't promise i wont vote for you but at least I'm looking around. If you don't have to vote to save yourself who will you vote for today?

You have to admit he has no reason to think I'm bad though. Look at our discussion yesterday. His entire argument against me is that someone has to be Smaug. He has nothing pointing to me specifically. In all honesty I haven't really considered a vote that isn't to save myself because I'd been expecting Epi to come in with an actual case that people would have just latched on to and bandwagoned me. I will go over my options at some point and think about it.

[Epignosis]

Look:

A Person (Kylemii)
7
thellama73 (16), Dom (18), Hedgeowl (19), Bullzeye (20), fingersplints (21), Turnip Head (22), Metalmarsh89 (23) 29%

Boogs
7
Spacedaisy (3), Captain Bunny Killer (8), Leamiteo (10), A Person (12), insertnamehere (14), Lizzy (15), Snow Dog (24) 29%

++++


On the day Boogs was lynched, TH2 tied it up. If Kylemii / A Person were a teammate of TH2, that would be an unnecessary risk. Also note that on the day TH2 got lynched, Kylemii voted himself (A Person). He could have saved his vote to save a teammate (or distance hard), but he didn't do either.

[Epignosis]

If you were a civvy, why would someone else manipulate the lynch so that llama would die and you would survive?

That's definitely not the result I expected.

And where from this reaction do you get the idea k4j knew what was going on?

Because me and him were the only ones to vote for Llama. I didn't do anything so he might have. Or there was a switch or something. I don't know. I'm pretty sure I'm being set up by the baddies but I have no idea why they'd go to so much effort. Plus it might have just been to kill Llama. Though again I don't know why they wouldn't just NK him.

My my my.

How about they used the device to save me even though I'm not on their team because I'm too good at being suspicious? They'd be fools to let me die.

A baddie wouldn't throw away a save for someone not on their team. Not when it could come back to bite them later. I'm not saying I agree with Boogs' crazy theory up there, but still... I think that scenario is very unlikely. If the baddies saved you it's because you're on their team.

I think it kinda goes without saying at this point but I'm gonna vote Mongoose. I don't buy her claims of not knowing how she survived the lynch, the comment of 'if someone saved me' just doesn't make sense because she'd know she either saved herself or someone else must have. Plus suggesting the baddies may have saved her to keep a suspicious person around, anyone would know that baddies don't do that for non-teammates.

[Bullzeye]

If they already had the vote power and knew Llama was Gandalf, why not? I remember what I said to Mongoose but at this point I know I'm telling the truth. There is literally no reason to claim I don't know how I survived unless I really don't. Even if it was a lie the easiest way for me to go would be to say I bought extra votes to save myself.

[Snow Dog]

If they already had the vote power and knew Llama was Gandalf, why not? I remember what I said to Mongoose but at this point I know I'm telling the truth. There is literally no reason to claim I don't know how I survived unless I really don't. Even if it was a lie the easiest way for me to go would be to say I bought extra votes to save myself.

Could be a case of the famous WIFOM. In other words you bought the extra votes but to claim that would not clear you. So you say you don't know what happened and claim you are being set up hoping it is the better play.

[Bullzeye]

If they already had the vote power and knew Llama was Gandalf, why not? I remember what I said to Mongoose but at this point I know I'm telling the truth. There is literally no reason to claim I don't know how I survived unless I really don't. Even if it was a lie the easiest way for me to go would be to say I bought extra votes to save myself.

Could be a case of the famous WIFOM. In other words you bought the extra votes but to claim that would not clear you. So you say you don't know what happened and claim you are being set up hoping it is the better play.

Nah because claiming I don't know leads people to assume I'm lying. The smarter move would've been to lie and say I had bought votes, I realise that now.

[Kylemii]

You look back over all my poss and I doubt that the word agreeable is really one that can be used to describe them, lol.

I'm sure you're right, but I also know you listed Kyle as a player you didn't realize was still playing, because he's hardly posted. Tbh, I should say the same about you. I've hardly heard a peep from you before today, but I guess your flying under the radar is your style. It is something I would expect of a baddie (Kyle possibly), but the timing of your resurgence does not indicate baddie to me.

I could see Kyle as a teammate of Bullzeye.

wait what?

I've already put points forward before of why I've thought you're a goblin. They are not a thing of the past.

I took a look through Kyle's posts. Not once has he interacted with you. He did vote you yesterday, but even with a 5-2 lead in the polls (he put you up 4-2), you weren't lynched. You say that you don't know why you survived the lynch, or why llama took the brunt, but how often does a player survive a lynch without actually knowing what's going on? I do not believe you here. I have read your discussion with Epi today, but Epi was convinced you are Smaug (which is still a possibility).

And considering what fingers may have said, there is a clear difference between Kyle 1.0 and Kyle 2.0. Kyle 1.0. In the first couple days when he was alive, he'd put more effort to catch up and post/vote based on his own thoughts. The new Kyle seems less interested, which considering the number of players has been cut down to 30%, the game should be easier to keep up with.

there are 30% as many players now, yeah. i'm keeping up with the contemporary posts in the thread alright, but i've decided it's more efficient to just read posts from the first 9 days as they become historically relevant... which has led to some detached feelings i guess. >_>

er... i voted for bullz *crosses fingers*

just fyi there's no option to change votes in this poll

Also concerning his vote on Bullz, I feel like Kyle should have known he could only vote once. He had played earlier in the game.

literally every game i've played recently has had the vote changing option, i can't be expected to keep them all straight. :0

[Kylemii]

i'm voting bullz again, there were some posts before the lynch post which lead me to believe that maybe he did know he was going to survive.

i have to go, i'm travelling today, but i'll try to keep up via phone since i don't have to drive

[Bullzeye]

i'm voting bullz again, there were some posts before the lynch post which lead me to believe that maybe he did know he was going to survive.

i have to go, i'm travelling today, but i'll try to keep up via phone since i don't have to drive

Quote these posts. Oh wait you won't be able to since you're travelling. That's convenient.

[Marmot]

Look:

A Person (Kylemii)
7
thellama73 (16), Dom (18), Hedgeowl (19), Bullzeye (20), fingersplints (21), Turnip Head (22), Metalmarsh89 (23) 29%

Boogs
7
Spacedaisy (3), Captain Bunny Killer (8), Leamiteo (10), A Person (12), insertnamehere (14), Lizzy (15), Snow Dog (24) 29%

++++


On the day Boogs was lynched, TH2 tied it up. If Kylemii / A Person were a teammate of TH2, that would be an unnecessary risk. Also note that on the day TH2 got lynched, Kylemii voted himself (A Person). He could have saved his vote to save a teammate (or distance hard), but he didn't do either.

At the time of Kyle's self-vote, TH only had one vote to Snow Dog's 4. But I understand your point on the Boogs lynch. Bullzeye's vote doesn't make sense if Kyle is a teammate, nor does TH's vote.

[Marmot]

I'm putting my vote on Bullzeye.

[birdwithteeth11]

Sorry I haven't been around the last few days. Putting out a lot of fires is the simplest way to put it. I'm going to catch up this afternoon and (hopefully) remember to actually vote this time!

[Marmot]

I was starting to wonder where you'd gone BWT.

[Spacedaisy]

You look back over all my poss and I doubt that the word agreeable is really one that can be used to describe them, lol.

I'm sure you're right, but I also know you listed Kyle as a player you didn't realize was still playing, because he's hardly posted. Tbh, I should say the same about you. I've hardly heard a peep from you before today, but I guess your flying under the radar is your style. It is something I would expect of a baddie (Kyle possibly), but the timing of your resurgence does not indicate baddie to me.

I could see Kyle as a teammate of Bullzeye.

Yes you could say the same about me. But my suspicion of him is not asked on the lack of posting, it is based in a process of elimination.

[Snow Dog]

These are my thoughts.

I think Epi is civ. Mainly because his lead on so many lynches. Were those lynches only from one camp? If not then it isn't certain but for now I trust him.

Kylemi - Epi says he isn't a goblin, I am trusting E so he's ok (could be smaug I guess)

fingersplints - I am almost certain is civ.

Bullz - Still not sure but think I'll give him th benefit of the doubt.

BWT - Pretty sure he is civ.

This leaves everyone else I'm not sure about and my vote will go to one of them

[juliets]

I think i will approach this lynch from the elimination perspective too.

Epig - I would be shocked if he were not good.

BWT - I'm seeing him as probably good.

Kyle - I'm becoming more and more convinced he is good.

Splints - I'm not sure about her but she is insanified today so I'm not voting her.

Bullz - Epig seems sure he is Smaug and his insights have been amazingly good but Bullz sounds so genuine. I may give him the botd.

Everyone else I'm unsure about so it's either one of them or Bullz.

[Bullzeye]

Bullz - Epig seems sure he is Smaug and his insights have been amazingly good but Bullz sounds so genuine. I may give him the botd.

His 'insights' into me have been nothing. Literally less than guesswork. It amazes me that anyone is even paying attention to him tbh, he has even admitted that the only reason he thinks I'm Smaug is because it's a fact that one person playing this game must be. By the same logic I can say that you are actually the host of this game, because someone has to be or the game wouldn't exist...

[Epignosis]

If you were a civvy, why would someone else manipulate the lynch so that llama would die and you would survive?

That's definitely not the result I expected.

And where from this reaction do you get the idea k4j knew what was going on?

Because me and him were the only ones to vote for Llama. I didn't do anything so he might have. Or there was a switch or something. I don't know. I'm pretty sure I'm being set up by the baddies but I have no idea why they'd go to so much effort. Plus it might have just been to kill Llama. Though again I don't know why they wouldn't just NK him.

My my my.

How about they used the device to save me even though I'm not on their team because I'm too good at being suspicious? They'd be fools to let me die.

A baddie wouldn't throw away a save for someone not on their team. Not when it could come back to bite them later. I'm not saying I agree with Boogs' crazy theory up there, but still... I think that scenario is very unlikely. If the baddies saved you it's because you're on their team.

I think it kinda goes without saying at this point but I'm gonna vote Mongoose. I don't buy her claims of not knowing how she survived the lynch, the comment of 'if someone saved me' just doesn't make sense because she'd know she either saved herself or someone else must have. Plus suggesting the baddies may have saved her to keep a suspicious person around, anyone would know that baddies don't do that for non-teammates.

If they already had the vote power and knew Llama was Gandalf, why not? I remember what I said to Mongoose but at this point I know I'm telling the truth. There is literally no reason to claim I don't know how I survived unless I really don't. Even if it was a lie the easiest way for me to go would be to say I bought extra votes to save myself.

Who is "they" and why would "they" know Llama was Gandalf?

I think the double standard here smells. When Mongoose raised the possibility that she was being set up, you dismissed it and condemned her for it. When you raise it now, you're telling the truth (which by definition can't be true because you don't know you're being set up because you don't know how you survived).

Then there's this:

Personally I'll be more suspicious of those who do simply jump on without adding anything to the case.

AP it is then, I can't see any reason for why not.

Adding to a bandwagon without adding anything to the case.

[Bullzeye]

Who is "they" and why would "they" know Llama was Gandalf?

I think the double standard here smells. When Mongoose raised the possibility that she was being set up, you dismissed it and condemned her for it. When you raise it now, you're telling the truth (which by definition can't be true because you don't know you're being set up because you don't know how you survived).

Maybe they'd guessed? I don't know or care really. I know I'm telling the truth about how I survived and it would make absolutely no sense at all for me to claim I didn't know I survived rather than just say I bought votes unless I was telling the truth. Seriously. What do I gain here?

Then there's this:

Personally I'll be more suspicious of those who do simply jump on without adding anything to the case.

AP it is then, I can't see any reason for why not.

Adding to a bandwagon without adding anything to the case.

Umm, context? AP was brought up as someone to be lynched in place of Boogs. Like I've said a million times I didn't think Boogs was bad and felt the case against him was being over-hyped by opportunistic baddies. I voted AP as the only real alternative as did others who agreed with me.

[Epignosis]

It's been a full two Days and from what I can tell, you have not helped in the search for Goblins. You've only posted defensively. You've clearly been around. You claimed that I and llama were bad and should be lynched next (ironically without giving any reasons). You said you felt good about k4j for a reason that isn't true.

[Bullzeye]

It's been a full two Days and from what I can tell, you have not helped in the search for Goblins. You've only posted defensively. You've clearly been around. You claimed that I and llama were bad and should be lynched next (ironically without giving any reasons). You said you felt good about k4j for a reason that isn't true.

So stop wasting time. You decided I was bad days ago and nothing will change that. Lynch me and be done with so I can laugh at you.

[Epignosis]

It's been a full two Days and from what I can tell, you have not helped in the search for Goblins. You've only posted defensively. You've clearly been around. You claimed that I and llama were bad and should be lynched next (ironically without giving any reasons). You said you felt good about k4j for a reason that isn't true.

So stop wasting time. You decided I was bad days ago and nothing will change that. Lynch me and be done with so I can laugh at you.

You already did that, chuckles.

[Bullzeye]

It's been a full two Days and from what I can tell, you have not helped in the search for Goblins. You've only posted defensively. You've clearly been around. You claimed that I and llama were bad and should be lynched next (ironically without giving any reasons). You said you felt good about k4j for a reason that isn't true.

So stop wasting time. You decided I was bad days ago and nothing will change that. Lynch me and be done with so I can laugh at you.

You already did that, chuckles.

That wasn't me really laughing at you. That was me clicking on a smiley a few times to illustrate how silly I find the notion of me being Smaug. I will actually laugh when, if I'm lynched, my role is revealed and you try to scrape together some excuse for why you were wrong.

[Epignosis]

It's been a full two Days and from what I can tell, you have not helped in the search for Goblins. You've only posted defensively. You've clearly been around. You claimed that I and llama were bad and should be lynched next (ironically without giving any reasons). You said you felt good about k4j for a reason that isn't true.

So stop wasting time. You decided I was bad days ago and nothing will change that. Lynch me and be done with so I can laugh at you.

You already did that, chuckles.

That wasn't me really laughing at you. That was me clicking on a smiley a few times to illustrate how silly I find the notion of me being Smaug. I will actually laugh when, if I'm lynched, my role is revealed and you try to scrape together some excuse for why you were wrong.

Why would I try to scrape together some excuse? I'm wrong a lot. If I were right all of the time, I'd play the lottery, not Mafia.

I've offered plenty of time for you to talk about other players, discuss suspicions, and help demonstrate that you are on the side of the civilians. Instead, all you've used that time to do is be defensive, say things that aren't true, and taunt me into voting you.

If you think mislynching you is going to make me feel uncomfortable, embarrassed, humiliated, upset, or under any kind of pressure, you are mistaken.

[Bullzeye]

It's been a full two Days and from what I can tell, you have not helped in the search for Goblins. You've only posted defensively. You've clearly been around. You claimed that I and llama were bad and should be lynched next (ironically without giving any reasons). You said you felt good about k4j for a reason that isn't true.

So stop wasting time. You decided I was bad days ago and nothing will change that. Lynch me and be done with so I can laugh at you.

You already did that, chuckles.

That wasn't me really laughing at you. That was me clicking on a smiley a few times to illustrate how silly I find the notion of me being Smaug. I will actually laugh when, if I'm lynched, my role is revealed and you try to scrape together some excuse for why you were wrong.

Why would I try to scrape together some excuse? I'm wrong a lot. If I were right all of the time, I'd play the lottery, not Mafia.

I've offered plenty of time for you to talk about other players, discuss suspicions, and help demonstrate that you are on the side of the civilians. Instead, all you've used that time to do is be defensive, say things that aren't true, and taunt me into voting you.

If you think mislynching you is going to make me feel uncomfortable, embarrassed, humiliated, upset, or under any kind of pressure, you are mistaken.

You've spent a hell of a lot of time and effort coming after someone you didn't even originally have a reason to come after. When people are pushing cases against me I prefer to defend than attack because I know that, in some cases, if I claim I'm suspicious of someone who is on the fence about me they will vote me to defend themselves. It happens. I don't want to cause you and kind of discomfort, embarrassment, humiliation, upset, or pressure. I just want the satisfaction of proving someone wrong when they're so passionate about how right they are. It's one of my favourite things in mafia.