Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Sloonei]

BTW, just realized something.

Mafia has not been afraid AT ALL to try and murder the most dangerous claims. (Cop and Janitor Vig)
Why weren't they scared of a watcher visiting the obvious target?

That's a watcher with the map, mind you.

[speedchuck]

*facepalm* Yes, I do know. Night 2, by the way, JJJ.

Oh. Okay then. This is correct.

I reread the thread. Looks like LC was being sarcastic when he said "my mistake". Problem is, a gun being in the night vote is plausible.

Still, being confident enough to predict the night gives me good feelings, and this gift/inventor/whatever is not similar to other claims.
Feeling good about the LC.

[Long Con]

BTW, just realized something.

Mafia has not been afraid AT ALL to try and murder the most dangerous claims. (Cop and Janitor Vig)
Why weren't they scared of a watcher visiting the obvious target?

You mean there's someone that should have been killed by now?

[speedchuck]

BTW, just realized something.

Mafia has not been afraid AT ALL to try and murder the most dangerous claims. (Cop and Janitor Vig)
Why weren't they scared of a watcher visiting the obvious target?

That's a watcher with the map, mind you.

I realize that, but am unsure what it has to do with anything.

[Long Con]

*facepalm* Yes, I do know. Night 2, by the way, JJJ.

Oh. Okay then. This is correct.

I reread the thread. Looks like LC was being sarcastic when he said "my mistake". Problem is, a gun being in the night vote is plausible.

Still, being confident enough to predict the night gives me good feelings, and this gift/inventor/whatever is not similar to other claims.
Feeling good about the LC.

My sarcastic abilities are outdone only by my psychic abilities.

[Sloonei]

*facepalm* Yes, I do know. Night 2, by the way, JJJ.

Oh. Okay then. This is correct.

I reread the thread. Looks like LC was being sarcastic when he said "my mistake". Problem is, a gun being in the night vote is plausible.

Still, being confident enough to predict the night gives me good feelings, and this gift/inventor/whatever is not similar to other claims.
Feeling good about the LC.

My sarcastic abilities are outdone only by my psychic abilities.

What's the font color for psychic posts?

[speedchuck]

BTW, just realized something.

Mafia has not been afraid AT ALL to try and murder the most dangerous claims. (Cop and Janitor Vig)
Why weren't they scared of a watcher visiting the obvious target?

You mean there's someone that should have been killed by now?

I mean that mafia has been killing the most obvious and dangerous targets without any trepidation. No hesitation, no mind games, no killing the safer targets. They do not fear a town watcher.

[Long Con]

This is it. I don't read the thread - ALL my posts are psychic ones.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's also worth noting that they had a counter to the watcher (a bus driver) who was lynched before either of the two more obvious night kills.

It's also plausible there is a counter to the tracker/watcher dynamic present, like a ninja.

[Sloonei]

Scotty, Golden, Soneji. My list of targets is amorphous.

[Sloonei]

Maybe I could shoot Fredwood too. I know zilch about him, but he's not immune to suspicion.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have my doubts that Scotty decided his strategy for this game would be "slow roll everyone with a fake tree stump claim that will never happen". I am okay with his claim right now.

[speedchuck]

It's also worth noting that they had a counter to the watcher (a bus driver) who was lynched before either of the two more obvious night kills.

It's also plausible there is a counter to the tracker/watcher dynamic present, like a ninja.

Good point about the ninja.

And with two roles to counter the watcher/tracker, it is possible that the two roles both exist.
But I still doubt it.

Because mafia needs to have a way to pass by the protective roles too, in that case. Even if there are only two. Busdriver can handle both, but ninja can't...
Does mafia have two redirectors?

Anyway, it's too dangerous/difficult to make a kill in these worlds.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's also worth noting that they had a counter to the watcher (a bus driver) who was lynched before either of the two more obvious night kills.

It's also plausible there is a counter to the tracker/watcher dynamic present, like a ninja.

Good point about the ninja.

And with two roles to counter the watcher/tracker, it is possible that the two roles both exist.
But I still doubt it.

Because mafia needs to have a way to pass by the protective roles too, in that case. Even if there are only two. Busdriver can handle both, but ninja can't...
Does mafia have two redirectors?

Anyway, it's too dangerous/difficult to make a kill in these worlds.

I think that's where Quin's claim comes into play. We know for sure that he claimed to protect nutella and that she died anyway. I think this dialogue leaves some room for a team built something like this:

Bus driver
Strongman
Ninja
Roleblocker
Role cop

These are all relatively ordinary mafia-oriented roles, but I think the image of this game is suitable to that so far (the civilian roles have been pretty standard).

[Jackofhearts2005]

*facepalm* Yes, I do know. Night 2, by the way, JJJ.

Oh. Okay then. This is correct.

I reread the thread. Looks like LC was being sarcastic when he said "my mistake". Problem is, a gun being in the night vote is plausible.

Still, being confident enough to predict the night gives me good feelings, and this gift/inventor/whatever is not similar to other claims.
Feeling good about the LC.

Devil's advocate:

There were only two possible nights Sloonei could have gotten a gun from the item vote because there was no item last night. On night 1, Sloonei was Sorsha and unlikely to receive any item votes.

If LC was scum convinced he was going to be shot, he could reasonably assume the gun was a night item (cause so many people have claimed, making the item likely a voted one and not an inventor one) and reasonably assume that Sloonei got it on night 2. Note the hesitation in answering the question. Like he didn't expect to be asked that and needed a second to figure out the answer.


LC, why did you give Sloonei the gun? Can you prove that gun came from you? Do you have a provable night 1 or 3 action?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Wait a minute.

I tracked LC on Night 2. He targeted nobody. Shenanigans.

[Long Con]

I had no hesitation, JJJ didn't ask me, he asked Sloonei. Then you guys mistook my sarcasm for unsureness, and so I answered to confirm my knowledge. I chose Sloonei because I thought he looked very townish - his entrance on day 2 was more about asking questions and challenging people, instead of agreeing, laying low, or jumping on suspicions. He was the first to cast a vote, as I recall, which seemed like a confident move.

[speedchuck]

It's also worth noting that they had a counter to the watcher (a bus driver) who was lynched before either of the two more obvious night kills.

It's also plausible there is a counter to the tracker/watcher dynamic present, like a ninja.

Good point about the ninja.

And with two roles to counter the watcher/tracker, it is possible that the two roles both exist.
But I still doubt it.

Because mafia needs to have a way to pass by the protective roles too, in that case. Even if there are only two. Busdriver can handle both, but ninja can't...
Does mafia have two redirectors?

Anyway, it's too dangerous/difficult to make a kill in these worlds.

I think that's where Quin's claim comes into play. We know for sure that he claimed to protect nutella and that she died anyway. I think this dialogue leaves some room for a team built something like this:

Bus driver
Strongman
Ninja
Roleblocker
Role cop

These are all relatively ordinary mafia-oriented roles, but I think the image of this game is suitable to that so far (the civilian roles have been pretty standard).

Very possible, but note:

Quin was an odd night protective.
Got more protectives.
You are a 3 shot tracker.
Got more info roles? Maybe.

But they should be limited in some way, as the other roles are, for balance. If they exist. Don't forget that town also had two other info roles.
You make good points, but I am about as unsold on Golden's claim as could be, considering that mafia hasn't needed to use an ninja at all! Instead they used a strongman (if quin is truthful) on an obvious target with a claimed town every-night-Watcher hanging around.

That would be stupid of them, in my honest opinion.

[Long Con]

Wait a minute.

I tracked LC on Night 2. He targeted nobody. Shenanigans.

No shenanigans here. Maybe you got redirected?

[speedchuck]

Wait a minute.

I tracked LC on Night 2. He targeted nobody. Shenanigans.

oho

LC/Sloonei w/w?
*puts on tinfoil hat and shoulder pads*

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Wait a minute.

I tracked LC on Night 2. He targeted nobody. Shenanigans.

No shenanigans here. Maybe you got redirected?

I don't think so. Specifically Long Con targeted nobody.

Sloonei has received a gun, and I believe him on that front. Someone will die in this day phase. Your claim corroborates his. I don't think you're both bad together. So that would imply I was somehow hindered -- more likely roleblocked. That could also work for Quin's failure.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tonight's Item is the Corrupted Jury. Make sure to send in your Night Actions AND Vote who gets the item!!![/color][/size]

Night 2 item mechanic. I don't think this is a gun or anything similar.

[Long Con]

Maybe sending an item isn't counted as "targeting" like protecting, killing, blocking, etc?

[Long Con]

Tonight's Item is the Corrupted Jury. Make sure to send in your Night Actions AND Vote who gets the item!!![/color][/size]

Night 2 item mechanic. I don't think this is a gun or anything similar.

If that's still a question... well, who voted for Sloonei to get an item night 2?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I hadn't claimed tracker yet on Night 2, so someone with insight into my role may have had additional reason to block me. I think two names fit that dynamic:

Jack -- he was clued into the tracker possibility on Day 2.
Golden -- his claim is similar to mine in functionality and could have been designed around it.

[Sloonei]

Wait a minute.

I tracked LC on Night 2. He targeted nobody. Shenanigans.

No shenanigans here. Maybe you got redirected?

I don't think so. Specifically Long Con targeted nobody.

Sloonei has received a gun, and I believe him on that front. Someone will die in this day phase. Your claim corroborates his. I don't think you're both bad together. So that would imply I was somehow hindered -- more likely roleblocked. That could also work for Quin's failure.

If your night result was specifically worded as Long Con not targeting a player rather than you failing to receive a result, wouldn't that suggest you were not role blocked?

[Long Con]

I hadn't claimed tracker yet on Night 2, so someone with insight into my role may have had additional reason to block me. I think two names fit that dynamic:

Jack -- he was clued into the tracker possibility on Day 2.
Golden -- his claim is similar to mine in functionality and could have been designed around it.

You are also generally a magnet in the thread, I'd say.

[Sloonei]

Maybe sending an item isn't counted as "targeting" like protecting, killing, blocking, etc?

I highly doubt this.

[speedchuck]

Generally, where I come from at least, affecting another character counts as a target or a visit, no matter what it is.

I think I voted for Sloon on night 2. Corrupted Jury sounds exactly like a gun to me. :s

But I think sloon is town, and would be surprised if LC guessed the night with the confidence he had.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Maybe sending an item isn't counted as "targeting" like protecting, killing, blocking, etc?

The actual term in this case is "visiting" rather than "targeting", but I have used them interchangeably. All trackers I've ever known have identified the player selected during the night phase by the player being tracked.

[Strawhenge]

I understand not being in the greener parts of people's rainbow lists, but I cannot fathom how I'm in the red of some. If it's just for low activity, that's pretty weak.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If your night result was specifically worded as Long Con not targeting a player rather than you failing to receive a result, wouldn't that suggest you were not role blocked?

Host preference. I think I've seen it all.

"You were blocked."

"Your action failed."

"Player X targeted nobody."

[juliets]

I understand not being in the greener parts of people's rainbow lists, but I cannot fathom how I'm in the red of some. If it's just for low activity, that's pretty weak.

I moved you up after I re-read you, I just didn't post a new list.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I understand not being in the greener parts of people's rainbow lists, but I cannot fathom how I'm in the red of some. If it's just for low activity, that's pretty weak.

For many people I'd wager it's process of elimination. You haven't displayed your town balls in the town locker room as boldly as some others and you're left in the hazy other sector.

[Long Con]

Maybe sending an item isn't counted as "targeting" like protecting, killing, blocking, etc?

I highly doubt this.

Well, there's one easy way to find out, Sloon my man! *hold arms out wide* I wouldn't advise it though, I am Civ.

[juliets]

So then for those who think Quin is civ, the dynamic would be he was blocked by the good role blocker and JJJ by the baddie role blocker?

[Sloonei]

Generally, where I come from at least, affecting another character counts as a target or a visit, no matter what it is.

I think I voted for Sloon on night 2. Corrupted Jury sounds exactly like a gun to me. :s

But I think sloon is town, and would be surprised if LC guessed the night with the confidence he had.

I don't know if it is a good idea to ask people for their Night 2 votes, but if we could confirm that I was the selected target for the item that night, I'd put Long Con back in my crosshairs.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So then for those who think Quin is civ, the dynamic would be he was blocked by the good role blocker and JJJ by the baddie role blocker?

It's quite speculative still. The theory wouldn't require two roleblockers though -- the bad roleblocker would have blocked both of us.

On a scale of 1-10, how much does Quin's role claim stink to you? 10 is Limburger cheese.

[Sloonei]

So then for those who think Quin is civ, the dynamic would be he was blocked by the good role blocker and JJJ by the baddie role blocker?

Jay's claim is that he was hindered on Night 2, Quin's is on Night 3.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I did not vote for Sloonei on N2.

[speedchuck]

Currently I have Quin's claim ranked (get it? rank) at about 5.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Obligatory pre-game slank: I'll be in two games, hosting the GOC, and dealing with a crapload of real-life university prep stuff, so don't expect me to put up 800 cot durned posts.

If I still actually do that, please end me.

[Long Con]

Looking back, I noticed this post from you, Sloon:

A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior. I don't typically view him doing weird things with his vote and playing loose as bad things. That is just Scotty being Scotty.

Would you classify Scotty's stump/target-proving claim as contradictory or inconsistent? Why or why not?

[juliets]

So then for those who think Quin is civ, the dynamic would be he was blocked by the good role blocker and JJJ by the baddie role blocker?

It's quite speculative still. The theory wouldn't require two roleblockers though -- the bad roleblocker would have blocked both of us.

On a scale of 1-10, how much does Quin's role claim stink to you? 10 is Limburger cheese.

If we assume no redundancy then it's a 9, the 1 being for something that I just can't contemplate because of my lack of experience.

[Long Con]

Obligatory pre-game slank: I'll be in two games, hosting the GOC, and dealing with a crapload of real-life university prep stuff, so don't expect me to put up 800 cot durned posts.

If I still actually do that, please end me.

Pfft, you're barely over half that number. I doubt you'll make it to 800.

[Long Con]

So then for those who think Quin is civ, the dynamic would be he was blocked by the good role blocker and JJJ by the baddie role blocker?

It's quite speculative still. The theory wouldn't require two roleblockers though -- the bad roleblocker would have blocked both of us.

On a scale of 1-10, how much does Quin's role claim stink to you? 10 is Limburger cheese.

If we assume no redundancy then it's a 9, the 1 being for something that I just can't contemplate because of my lack of experience.

Quin wasn't even under that much suspicion, though. He didn't make the claim out of desperation.

[juliets]

So then for those who think Quin is civ, the dynamic would be he was blocked by the good role blocker and JJJ by the baddie role blocker?

It's quite speculative still. The theory wouldn't require two roleblockers though -- the bad roleblocker would have blocked both of us.

On a scale of 1-10, how much does Quin's role claim stink to you? 10 is Limburger cheese.

If we assume no redundancy then it's a 9, the 1 being for something that I just can't contemplate because of my lack of experience.

Quin wasn't even under that much suspicion, though. He didn't make the claim out of desperation.

I know. I don't know what to say. Maybe there is something I'm not thinking about. The hosts are no help to me, they say it would be cheating if they tell me that. Or maybe there is redundancy.

[Sloonei]

Looking back, I noticed this post from you, Sloon:

A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior. I don't typically view him doing weird things with his vote and playing loose as bad things. That is just Scotty being Scotty.

Would you classify Scotty's stump/target-proving claim as contradictory or inconsistent? Why or why not?

I don't think that I would describe it in those terms. It's shady on some level, but I think he's been consistent with the claim at least. His failure to deliver on verification opens the whole thing up to skepticism. I'm not willing to dismiss him as a suspect for claiming a role that he can't or won't prove, but he's not doing anything contradictory.

[Long Con]

Well, thank god for the honour of hosts. I have to go out for a bit to get a sandwich and some heat-shrink wire covering stuff.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm Not Lynching These Cats Tier:
juliets
Sloonei
speedchuck
Dyslexicon
Strawhenge

I Have Some Crappy Reasons To Believe In Y'all Tier:
Fredwood
Elohcin

Ponder Emoji Shenanigans Tier:
Long Con
Golden
Quin
JackofHearts
Scotty

Process of Elimination Tier:
Soneji