The Syndicate

We should all pick our top 2 persons which we have the strongest wolf reads on. I've already listed mine. Interested in seeing what you guys got.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:45 pm I'm gonna lower it down further to Nutella and Jack.

Well that’s problematic.

Why do you trust Epi?

Why do you not trust me and Nutella?

Nutella having a post restriction (I think) makes her fall into her scum meta in a way that isn’t actually her scum meta. Like she coasts way more as a wolf.

Epi and Jay are my strongest scumreads.

I kinda want to swap Jay for Creature but I’m lynching Epi before either of them not just cause he’s a bigger suspect but a town Epi means his Creature suspicion is real and Jay’s Epi suspicion is wrong, making them each more likely to be bad.

but a town Epi means his Creature suspicion is real and Jay’s Epi suspicion is wrong, making them each more likely to be bad.

This logic might go both ways and the conclusion might just be wrong because of it.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:52 pm Epi and Jay are my strongest scumreads.

I kinda want to swap Jay for Creature but I’m lynching Epi before either of them not just cause he’s a bigger suspect but a town Epi means his Creature suspicion is real and Jay’s Epi suspicion is wrong, making them each more likely to be bad.

Not necessary when a Jack mafia lynch happens and the game is over.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:54 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:52 pm Epi and Jay are my strongest scumreads.

I kinda want to swap Jay for Creature but I’m lynching Epi before either of them not just cause he’s a bigger suspect but a town Epi means his Creature suspicion is real and Jay’s Epi suspicion is wrong, making them each more likely to be bad.

Not necessary when a Jack mafia lynch happens and the game is over.

I’m not wrong when I say this suspicion is convenient out outta left field am I?

I'm not mafia. If I get lynched, fine. But there will be fewer mistakes available.

I'll be on a bit tomorrow. Lynching me is stupid. Lynch someone else. Go.

Good night.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:57 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:54 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:52 pm Epi and Jay are my strongest scumreads.

I kinda want to swap Jay for Creature but I’m lynching Epi before either of them not just cause he’s a bigger suspect but a town Epi means his Creature suspicion is real and Jay’s Epi suspicion is wrong, making them each more likely to be bad.

Not necessary when a Jack mafia lynch happens and the game is over.

I’m not wrong when I say this suspicion is convenient out outta left field am I?

Everything I've said and done has been out of left field. Nobody should listen to what I have to say.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:58 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:57 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:54 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:52 pm Epi and Jay are my strongest scumreads.

I kinda want to swap Jay for Creature but I’m lynching Epi before either of them not just cause he’s a bigger suspect but a town Epi means his Creature suspicion is real and Jay’s Epi suspicion is wrong, making them each more likely to be bad.

Not necessary when a Jack mafia lynch happens and the game is over.

I’m not wrong when I say this suspicion is convenient out outta left field am I?

Everything I've said and done has been out of left field. Nobody should listen to what I have to say.

You heard it here first, folks. Don’t lynch Jack.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:48 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:45 pm I'm gonna lower it down further to Nutella and Jack.

Well that’s problematic.

Why do you trust Epi?

Why do you not trust me and Nutella?

Nutella having a post restriction (I think) makes her fall into her scum meta in a way that isn’t actually her scum meta. Like she coasts way more as a wolf.

Epi is calm, collected. Just doesn't give a fuck. I don't see that kinda approach to the game in a wolf who's all by himself and has to get the win against all the odds. He's very accepting of his lynch. Though tbh, out of all these players, I find him most likely to kill LC as that kill just to me didn't have any strategy involved in it and that matches with Epi's carefree tone.

I haven't trusted you since D1 and you haven't changed that lack of trust from me so naturally, it carries on to here. I just don't like Nutella as I used, I will iso her in a bit to explain more of my thoughts.

My experiences with Nutella as scum haven't been like this. She coasted in those games yes(usually after trying to contribute early on), but not this much. So this is kind of a bad meta read.

The mafia is on epi wagon 100%. Mafia would have thought rej was town so it'd be one of the players who didn't suspect him (it goes without saying but other than me).

Given Jay went after him I think nutella/jack is a good deduction.

Epi is my top town read. Unvote him you cowards.

Oh it's night. I thought you were all voting there again.

Anyway. Lynch nutella and jack. Profit.

Oh come on guys I was TRYING to fucking tell you that my vote didn't count and somehow nobody understood even though I thought I was being clear as day. Rej was always going to be the lynch, it was never actually tied and I tried to help you guys realize it and that I was fine with it anyway but whatever. And I'm not the scum you dipshits. I have some doubts about epi but I think he's still my first choice.

[mention]Epignosis[/mention], why am I a civilian?

Before I can get into proper digging, my top two are Epi and Mac.

I’ve had a busy day. I hope I can be around for more of the phase tomorrow.

Ugh I still have a feeling it's Jay though. I don't think it's ever Mac or creature and prooobably not sprit; Drago and jack I could argue for but don't feel it. My preferences are epi and jay.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:22 am Oh come on guys I was TRYING to fucking tell you that my vote didn't count and somehow nobody understood even though I thought I was being clear as day. Rej was always going to be the lynch, it was never actually tied and I tried to help you guys realize it and that I was fine with it anyway but whatever. And I'm not the scum you dipshits. I have some doubts about epi but I think he's still my first choice.

At least he didn’t lynch himself then.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:26 am Ugh I still have a feeling it's Jay though. I don't think it's ever Mac or creature and prooobably not sprit; Drago and jack I could argue for but don't feel it. My preferences are epi and jay.

Why not Mac?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:26 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:26 am Ugh I still have a feeling it's Jay though. I don't think it's ever Mac or creature and prooobably not sprit; Drago and jack I could argue for but don't feel it. My preferences are epi and jay.

Why not Mac?

I just know I became certain at some point that he's town, idk I have a headache and feel disconnected from the game rn so maybe I'll have more coherent thoughts tomorrow. I could be convinced to reconsider him if there's a decent argument.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:30 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:26 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:26 am Ugh I still have a feeling it's Jay though. I don't think it's ever Mac or creature and prooobably not sprit; Drago and jack I could argue for but don't feel it. My preferences are epi and jay.

Why not Mac?

I just know I became certain at some point that he's town, idk I have a headache and feel disconnected from the game rn so maybe I'll have more coherent thoughts tomorrow. I could be convinced to reconsider him if there's a decent argument.

I will dig tomorrow. My own suspicion lingers in the gut, so I cannot thoroughly substantiate it yet. Most basically his play seems the most applicable to setting up lynches (that he fully trusts Epi and wants to lynch you and Jack is at best confusing to me for example). Tinfoil is fine, but I need to believe that reads are *real*.

Whatever I’ll see tomorrow. Too late tonight.

I’m also not giving Creature any civilian credit for being aloof or derpy, especially when he makes it seem so deliberate. This is a time to hold people to standards.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:24 pm Oh or sprityo

i just did y'all a favor, idk what else you want from me?

if you guys want to lynch epi next be my guest

Mafia should just go ahead and off epi if they want to be cool though

that being said, i dont actually suspect epignosis, more so said it to relax any bellyaching

I'm going back to my list i made earlier and (at the request of drago) putting creature and Jack as my two lynch candidates
Night 2 list:

Good
-Dragomir
-Epignosis
-MacDougal

Ugly
-JaggedJimmyJay
-nutella

Bad
-Creature
-Jackofhearts2005

I had mac in the bad category due to i was just being stubborn and didnt want to admit i felt like he was town. But with 2 threats down and probably only one left, I should just suck it up and give him his credit. I want to say no one on Rej's wagon (besides himself) is mafia either, which i already felt good about drago. And i can give epi half credit since it was also technically a self preservation. Either mafia voted for epi to be lynched or they watched as everything happened, which summarizes the last four people nicely

I'll do a vote color chart later see how it's looking

also [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] my buttons arent working? like for changing color or text size etc. whats up with that? at the least i have some of the basic ones memorized

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:55 am I'll do a vote color chart later see how it's looking

also @JaggedJimmyJay my buttons arent working? like for changing color or text size etc. whats up with that? at the least i have some of the basic ones memorized

I removed you from the Heist host group; it may have been interfering for some reason. Let me know if problems persist.

JJJ, you are a civilian because you are like me when you are bad. You value efficiency. I don't believe you punched Tony's Greyhound ticket Day 1 like that if you are aligned with him.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:10 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:09 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:08 pm I also do not sense the "I better get my shit in" Jay that is ever present on night 1 after a Mafia death.

So you're either Mafia or you are using this game to experiment with your meta.

You have got to be shitting me.

"Mac is a dumb idiot" is exactly how Mafia deal with my cases 99% of the time. Especially good ones. Civilian Jay doesn't go the discrediting route ever. Civilian Jay doesn't provoke me into an in thread shit fight because it is anti-town.

This is pure bullshit. Civilian Jay has provoked Mac into in-thread shit fights eight thousand times, to include the very first game we played together in the Stone Age. To suggest otherwise is at best intellectually dishonest. I get into in-thread shit fights in every damned game I play, and it's one reason I wanted to take a break from Mafia in general for a few months -- it's exhausting (especially when I feel so misunderstood every time).

Likewise, to imply "you have got to be shitting me" is equivalent to "Jay going the discrediting route" is a bunch of junk. Whatever people may think of my Night 1 activity, I felt as though I had done everything in my power to solve the game. When it was suggested I was going through the motions or whatever, I was absolutely incredulous about that.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:26 pm Neither Epi or Dragomir are bad.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:26 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:08 pm I don't suspect Dragomir. You all are fooling yourselves. What does bad Dragomir have to gain from this? Come on.

Indeed. Thank you for pointing this out.

I am skeptical of many of Mac's recent reads, and these two posts examine two of them. I have my doubts that Mac was serious in his motions against Dragomir yesterday. That's not egregious, because there is value in challenging a town read. However, his response to Epignosis reads faker to me every time I look at it.

"Thank you for pointing this out" like it's not already obvious. "Epignosis is not bad, because he told me Dragomir is good" -- Dragomir has spent the entire game as the overall top civilian read, so why is that a reason to clear Epignosis? I struggle to believe that.

Recall this thing:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:19 pm I'll add that I would find anyone suspicious for doing what you are doing with the hot takes and an intentional widening of the POE (which is something I am always cautious of when wolves are few).

If Mac is a mafioso then he just broadcast his own strategy by accusing me of doing it. He has been "widening the POE" for days. Let's review some of the suspicions he has explored with at least moderate interest in recent memory:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:48 pm In the context of a bus, it makes sense that there was an attempt to introduce a counterwagon before the bussing decision was made. It also would have not occurred until the counterwagon was truly busted. The only counterwagon that was intentionally and ruthlessly thrown out on day 1 that I can recall (because it was me who did it), was the Jack/Nutella push on Jay. So looking into who framed up the counterwagons that manifested after TSP's initial suspicion is probably where to look. That would be Jack/Nut's insistence towards lynching Jay and perhaps Jay's attempt to lynch Rej.

So I would say Jack/Nutella are very much worth looking into. That Epi has narrowed it down to me/Nutella, leans me towards thinking that it was Nutella sheeping Jack who is the guilty one, rather than Jack actually coming up with El Capitano del Civiliana as a legitimate day 1 mislynch candidate out of nowhere.

nutella and Jack both emerged from Day 1 with general civilian credit in their favor, whether well-advised or not. Mac pushed back against both. Widening the POE.

He carried that "Jack bussed Tony" torch for a bit until I basically said "that's a dumb case" before he ever even presented it in my Tony/Jack interactions:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:23 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:22 pm You civ read Jack for the distancey wafflebus eh?

I'd love to see your case. Go crazy.

It's the things where you said you'd find it hilarious to make a case out of if you were Mafia.

Later in the same night he moved his bussing tinfoil to nutella instead, keeping me sandwiched between his choice suspects:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:52 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:50 pm If it wasn't a busser:

Epignosis > Creature > sprityo > Long Con

If it was a busser:

Rej > MacDougall > Jack > nutella > Dragomir

That I can place you in both categories is an interesting observation.

If not one = Long Con > Sprityo > Jay > Creature > Epignosis

If is one = Nutella > Jay > Jack > rej > Dragomir

Seems the only thing we agree on is that Dragomir = town.

Again: widening the POE. This isn't merely a matter of "if there's a busser it's X and if not it's Y", because Mac has given serious credence to his reads against both nutella and Jack. He is still pushing the read against nutella. I don't actually know why. I asked and this was all I got:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:20 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:04 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:27 pm I think Nutella is maybe the answer?

Reasons, please.

Lack of reasons to town read.

These reads don't look genuine to me.

~~~

The most important component of any case is to state a mafia motive, and that's often not done (including not by myself). If Mac is a mafioso, then by spending much of his recent time attacking nutella, half-attacking Jack, being completely gormless in his handling of me (suspecto numero uno), and giving random-ass civilian credit to the likes of Epignosis and Creature (who have combined to contribute very little to the hunt), he arranges a path to victory which is manageable. It has to be that way.

Recall that Mac didn't exactly "bus" Tony. He had his vote there, but he was right there with me in late Day 1 in considering reasons not to lynch Tony. He also handled Jack in a way that looks TMI right now. Observe:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:00 pm I think TSP is a wolf and Jack is bussing him.

I think Mac knows TSP is a wolf and is distancing from him by way of accusing Jack of bussing. The accusation was based on a bunch of bullshit in the first place, and clearly Mac realized that. He never pursued the case after I shot it the fuck down in my interactive ISO.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:01 pm I am going back to TSP for now. If he flips wolf I am gonna fuck you up Jack.

k

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:02 pm Jack's post history actually has quite a lot of TMI in it now that I look, and the engagement with TSP looks like distancing now in the context of the dramatic way he ended up voting for him. Nuff said. Game solved. Fucking get in the bin.

TMI player accuses other player (Jack) of TMI.

Widening POE player accuses other player (Jay) of widening the POE.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:44 pm nutella is sort of absent but I think that's more likely to be civ nutella tbh. It's too sloppy to be her wolf form.

I hate this "too sloppy" horseshit. When I suggested the case against me would essentially render me a sloppy-ass mafioso, Mac didn't give a shit. He gave a shit in this brief, fleeting moment for nutella. He gave a shit when he told me mafia Epignosis would mean he was sloppy. Again, it looks fake.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:50 pm Nah I changed my mind. TSP's explanations are too sincere. It doesn't vibe.

I also don't like how Jack did all that stuff he just did, at all.

Protect TSP, shit on Jack (Jack can't win regardless of Mac's read on Tony).

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:51 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:49 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:22 pm @JaggedJimmyJay how do you feel about the fact that TSP just voted for you?

Bad. Worse that he promptly moved it. Answering nutella's JJJ/Tony theory in that manner looks like a challenge, and it looks like one intended to make her or others believe the theory to be true. The movement of the vote accentuates that. See gang! I voted JJJ and then backed off! Isn't that juicy??? After you lynch me you can take him out next like you already want to do so bad!

You may not have noticed but he voted for Epignosis without announcing it, then moved it to Rej.

It feels like Mafia but it's too obvious I think.

"Too obvious to be mafia"

"Too sloppy to be mafia"

Fuck all that. This time it's a waffleburger on the confirmed mafioso.

~~~

Some of these posts may be out of chronological order. I have to get this in here quickly in case night ends and I drop dead. I grabbed the posts as I found them.

I demand feedback, whether in agreement or not. I am not convinced of this case. I have serious grievances though and they are now aired.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:51 pm JJJ, you are a civilian because you are like me when you are bad. You value efficiency. I don't believe you punched Tony's Greyhound ticket Day 1 like that if you are aligned with him.

Even considering that near the end I had my vote on the only other guy in position to be lynched (Rej)?

Also, the last time to my memory I posted an ISO review shredding the posts of a vastly civilian-read player was dunya in Steely Dan. People literally told me they weren't reading that, and go figure I was right. So please don't ignore my post just because it's big. Even if you think I'm wrong, and I could be, I need folks to talk about it. That's how we sort the game. Not by sitting in our own little isolated corners solving by ourselves.

Cooperate.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:12 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:51 pm JJJ, you are a civilian because you are like me when you are bad. You value efficiency. I don't believe you punched Tony's Greyhound ticket Day 1 like that if you are aligned with him.

Even considering that near the end I had my vote on the only other guy in position to be lynched (Rej)?

I don't care about your vote. Your posts would be different.

zzzzzzz

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:17 pm Also, the last time to my memory I posted an ISO review shredding the posts of a vastly civilian-read player was dunya in Steely Dan. People literally told me they weren't reading that, and go figure I was right. So please don't ignore my post just because it's big. Even if you think I'm wrong, and I could be, I need folks to talk about it. That's how we sort the game. Not by sitting in our own little isolated corners solving by ourselves.

Cooperate.

You're wrong. I already solved the game. You're welcome.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:52 pm You're wrong. I already solved the game. You're welcome.

Show me. Don't tell me. Show me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:52 pm You're wrong. I already solved the game. You're welcome.

Show me. Don't tell me. Show me.

In 2,500 word essays, because that's the only way to do it.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:52 pm You're wrong. I already solved the game. You're welcome.

Show me. Don't tell me. Show me.

In 2,500 word essays, because that's the only way to do it.

Yeah... sadly apparently Jay doesn't read posts if they are short.

He never pursued the case after I shot it the fuck down in my interactive ISO.

- I didn't read your things bro.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:18 am The mafia is on epi wagon 100%. Mafia would have thought rej was town so it'd be one of the players who didn't suspect him (it goes without saying but other than me).

Given Jay went after him I think nutella/jack is a good deduction.

WiDeNiNg ThE pOe

Observation #1: TSP had six votes when he went down, and the second more was Rej with 2.

There is a strong chance TSP was thrown under the bus. If you don't think that, see Observation #2.

Observation #2: TSP was "vanilla mafia." A goon.

Goons are cannon fodder. Bus ramps. Bus fodder. This strengthens my view that TSP was eliminated in part by his partner.

Observation #3: TonyStarkPrime
6
50%
Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, Rej, Dragomir, nutella, Jackofhearts2005, MacDougall

1. JJJ is mafia if he goes against what I (think I) know about his sense of economy. Civilian.
2. Rej didn't give and damn and is dead. Dead.
3. Dragomir I have maintain a strong civilian view of, and I would need strong convincing to think otherwise. Civilian.
4. nutella
5. Jack
6. Mac

I want to focus on 4-6. Focus has been in short supply for me lately. I hope to remedy that since my lineups are locked and loaded for tomorrow (Kyle Allen ftw ).

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] has been killed! He was Yusuke Kitagawa, vanilla town.

Day 3 has begun!

It will last 48 hours.

Told you Jay was town.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:02 pm Mac is just piggying drago though which is not a great reason. I'm basically fine with a tony lynch but I just feel like it's the lukewarm option and lynching jay would be more interesting.

This is a bad post for Nutella. She opens herself up to lynching Tony as if to go with the consensus but wants Jay lynched instead. The soft attempt at trying to redirect and switch ppl's attention is off-putting. It's not too hard cause mafia just won't do that but it's soft and low-key which is what mafia would do. I know this is wifomish but you can understand right? Also, interesting as the reason for why we should go to Jay is super weak and I'm not liking it.

Tho, tbh, I'm feeling Jack more as TSP's buddy. I'm indecisive about who I should pick here.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:19 pm You may have a point though. Also I just skimmed through Tony's ISO again and very little of it makes any damn sense.

Back to [VOTE: tony] aubergine

This here my boys, is the bus vote. Or distance vote. Whatever you wanna call it.

Considering that there's no restriction to claiming, I assume it's safe to do so right? If so, the person who's character is Morgana. Please claim for me. This is important. Don't ask why. Just do it.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:33 pm Considering that there's no restriction to claiming, I assume it's safe to do so right? If so, the person who's character is Morgana. Please claim for me. This is important. Don't ask why. Just do it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:18 pm Semi-closed Setup with three power roles, no role-claims.

Eat your Wheaties, man.

Damn.

I don’t think Nutella shoots Jay here right?

I certainly wouldn’t either.

Mac wants to lynch Nutella and Jack. Iirc Drago says the same.

Jay wanted to lynch Epi.

Did you not notice Jay decide I was mafia?

Like every player but Jay and Nutella suspected me. Most players who suspect me suspect Nutella.

The proper victory path is to shoot someone who would vote me and later use that as excuse to “reevaluate” Nutella to open up the mislynch pool.

Shooting Jay means I can’t mislynch Jay, have a much much harder time mislynching Epi and have a way higher chance to get lynched myself.

I would assume scum Nutella would have a similar thought process. I can’t imagine she’s scum here.