The Syndicate

I have to apologise that I gave Boogs that potion so that he could choose someone and force them to make a case on another player.

My intention was I would see what he did with it, see if he used it to make someone make a case on an easy lynch target and from that I would be able to conclude whether he had civvie intentions or not.

Obviously this plan was foiled when I was killed before I could determine.

>SpaghettiEverywhere wrote:Just saying, Roxy is extremely lucky she decided to kill me at the end there, I had her pegged for a NK had i survived. This game could have gone any direction

Although, Rox was Stevie and even if you had gotten your PM in first, she still had her original NK protection in place. So it would have been the same result. No one ever tried to kill Rox the entire game, the one civ you guys really wanted gone...

Let me know if there are any other questions or secrets you want revealed. I kept all my notes in handwriting this game...it was actually a lot easier to keep it organized that way.

LOL at Ambray's thoughts on that one, man, I can't argue with the plan but it definitely didn't work out.

Russ, how did you figure out Epig was Zombie exactly?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
And lastly, thank you to llama. You were right about DP from Day 1, and I was starting to feel a bit lost in the game before you found me. Sometimes I tend to do better organizing my thoughts when I can bounce them off another person. So I'm glad you found me at the perfect time. And you're an awesome enough player that I hope we get BTSC again soon!

I know exactly what you mean.

>SpaghettiEverywhere wrote:Just saying, Roxy is extremely lucky she decided to kill me at the end there, I had her pegged for a NK had i survived. This game could have gone any direction

Dude, you played an awesome game, let it be said. You had me convinced you were civvie until Snow Dog flipped blocker and he kept mentioning your name, which is what first made me wonder.

And I just want to say that I have not been the best example of a drama-free player this game or post-game, so I would like to bring attention to the fact that I am not irritated or anything with anyone and that I may have said something at any point that was interpreted a way I did not intend it. I am under particularly high stress with all of the CPA studying, job hunting, and other things, and I realize that's no excuse, but in combination with getting really into this game, it's perhaps what made me a little more apt to emotionally react to things. I do get over things quickly, but I think what all of us should learn from this game, is that if you're feeling emotionally tied at all, walk away from the computer screen. It usually does you good, regardless of what you're actually feeling. I do appreciate commentary from others in regard to what I or others may have messed up this game.

I did really enjoy the game and I'm glad so many others did as well; Andrew and Kate definitely put on an awesome game here. I was surprised how much discussion and how intense the game got, especially for a speed game (look at past speed games and you'll notice the # of posts has dramatically increased each time).

I think what made it especially exciting was how down to the wire it got; I honestly think any of the three sides could have won this if things just played out a little differently.

I just felt let down. I saved fellow civs by blocking and got lynched for my pains. Puls I'm ill and s-v-s suggested I was shamming. And I got my daugter to actually lie for me. I was annoyed by that. I wanted the baddies to win when I was getting lynched.

Actually after the first day I wanted to die. I didn't want to play anymore after that argument and all the bad feeling. I stuck with it and things got better though I am happy to say.

Snow Dog wrote:I just felt let down. I saved fellow civs by blocking and got lynched for my pains. Puls I'm ill and s-v-s suggested I was shamming. And I got my daugter to actually lie for me. I was annoyed by that. I wanted the baddies to win when I was getting lynched.

Don't let this get you down on mafia. It happens to everyone in the beginning until people get a feel for your game, especially players like you who put their all into it from the get-go. You played a great civ game, its just hard for other civs to decipher what's happening. Andrew made this a very clean game, little to no civ btsc so there was no way to ferret out any "definite civs." You earned your stripes this game, if that helps at all!

Snow Dog, I was sad to see you go down, especially after your reveal, and it really sucks to have a game when you feel like no one is listening to you. Trust me, I've been there. It even sucks more when you get caught up in some nasty feelings and they stick with you like that. I've been there too. I do wish you could have stuck it out longer, but it is what it is, and I suppose you couldn't shake the initial suspicion you were getting from early on. Sometimes civvies get lynched for the wrong reasons, you and Russ being the greatest examples of unnecessary sacrifices in this game, and sometimes baddies get lynched for the wrong reasons, which can be equally frustrating on that side of things.

I guess the only constructive feedback I could give you to avoid the suspicion would be to be careful about the NO Us. Just because it feels like someone is twisting your words, it can sometimes automatically connect in your mind that, hey, this person is twisting my words so they're definitely sinister. Sometimes it is true, but it isn't always, so that line of thinking, I've witnessed, tends to not only draw suspicion (because NO Us tend to be more associated with baddies, and it makes sense, because they get tunnel vision and sometimes don't want to voice too many things) but it also can cloud your vision (like other things). Other than that, you did play a pretty good game. And I'm probably not the best person to be giving advice this game since I didn't exactly suspect people better than you did. I'm kicking myself for not putting 2 + 2 + 2 together and realizing which role you were, but that lynch where you left us was a very bad one. It was really just down to you, Ambray, and llama, who all were working on the civvie side, and the only other one I was considering majorly at the time was BF and he was civvie, so I think that lynch was destined to be a disaster.

We should have given more weight to Boogs's behavior and the fact that Russ called him out (even though he said not to). Well played game to Boogs, but I knew once he started arguing the way he was the last two day periods that he pretty much had to be baddie.

But whatever happens, never stop rooting for your own team, man! The civvies have to stick together.

Thanks Kate and Alex. I am looking forward to more games and maybe settle on a style of play that sits better. Don't want to be too readable though.

btw. All the people I suspected turned out bad. Except Roxy but I quickly backpeddled on her. Unfortunately on rey too. He was sneaky.

Kate wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:I just felt let down. I saved fellow civs by blocking and got lynched for my pains. Puls I'm ill and s-v-s suggested I was shamming. And I got my daugter to actually lie for me. I was annoyed by that. I wanted the baddies to win when I was getting lynched.

Don't let this get you down on mafia. It happens to everyone in the beginning until people get a feel for your game, especially players like you who put their all into it from the get-go. You played a great civ game, its just hard for other civs to decipher what's happening. Andrew made this a very clean game, little to no civ btsc so there was no way to ferret out any "definite civs." You earned your stripes this game, if that helps at all!

This is very true. I notice many new players (I would consider a "new" player to have less than 5 games under their belt) get suspected A TON right away because people are so unsure how to read them, and many newbies can perform some classic baddie behavior, even when they're not baddie, because they're trying to get accustomed to the game AND we are all trying to figure out a baseline for that player because we still don't have any idea. It's a little bit easier for me since I've known Snow Dog on somewhat of a basis outside of mafia, but it still can be tough, and I still have trouble reading some veteran players now that I've played many games with (see: S~V~S).

But it's exactly what happened in Avant 2 where all the relatively unfamiliar people got lynched one after another for 'suspicious' behavior and kept flipping civvie. Sometimes circumstances get the best of you, baddies go along with your lynch because they need to in order to survive, and the civvies sometimes just aren't the wiser because they don't know.

It can be very hard for other civs to decipher what's happening, especially earlier on in games, and even more so in quicker speed games. My best bets were just what my gut and brain said as I was reading the thread, and not having BTSC as a civvie can be hard, but it's the nature of the game.

I agree he definitely earned his stripes this game. Snow Dog, llama, Epig, Russ, SE... you guys are all quickly becoming some more of my favorite players to play mafia games with, you certainly all are developing very awesome, accomplished gameplay styles and I'm sure will prove yourselves to be formidable players in the future, assuming you haven't already (and I would argue you all have already).

That is one thing I really loved about this game and that I'm proud of in this community is we really have a freaking awesome group of players and hosts here, so I want to give one big thanks to all of you for contributing in every way you do, and for making games fun. I've had so much fun these last few games I've played with all of these people, so much in fact that I think MOTU, MacGyver, and Minecraft all rank up decently high with my favorite mafia games ever. I heartily look forward to playing more games with all of you who played this one and those who didn't, and to seeing our community grow even more from here.

So I just got a pm asking about the day 0 poll. Here's how the poll worked.

It was a prize poll. The three answers were either the civ option, the indy option or the baddie option. Each was assigned randomly, ironically house was assigned to civ, which was kinda obvious but I didn't want to tweak the randomness since I was teaching Andrew... Ship was bad and bank was indy.

Three players in the game, selected randomly, were told what one of the options corresponded to (civ, indy or bad). Those players were Roxy, Russ and FH. I would have preferred that they were not all civs, but again, I didn't want to tweak the randomness since it was how Andrew and I decided to do it and I was teaching him...so it was what it was.

FWIW, we had to cut one role in this game which we really wanted to keep in. It was the bow and arrow. It was a civ role that the skeleton could search for, if found, the skeleton would recruit the bow and arrow. I liked this because it gave the civs, the baddies and the rogue, each a chance (a small chance) but a chance nonetheless) to get another player and it was "Andrew's artistic vision." Fyi, Andrew LOVES the recruit...

If Droopy had showed up earlier and we got the okay in time to add the other role, we would have added that role back in. I wish it had happened that way.

Wow..thanks Alex. I really appreciate those words.

So Roxy knew to vote House. That's interesting.

Snow Dog wrote:Thanks Kate and Alex. I am looking forward to more games and maybe settle on a style of play that sits better. Don't want to be too readable though.

No problem, man. You have a pretty good style, and I admire your balls to the wall approach, and I think it makes games more interesting (props to llama for this as well). I can appreciate that especially because I try to do the same, especially because sometimes it isn't the "best" approach and can get you eyed regardless of your alignment. I guess the best advice is if you want to continue that approach to just try and think things through as much as possible, and this is certainly advice that I need to take from myself as well, as I can sometimes go for the long haul on a theory and stick with it. It's hard because especially early in the game and as a civvie, all you have to go off of is what's already in the thread, so you could be totally wrong, but at the same time if your gut is screaming big time you really feel confident about it, despite the fact that you could be off the mark.

All of that being said, I think you, llama, and I are the Three Amigos of Extraordinarily Unnecessary Participation (TAEUP) or something like that. I'll think of a better name, hopefully. Open to suggestions. Lol.

Snow Dog wrote:btw. All the people I suspected turned out bad. Except Roxy but I quickly backpeddled on her. Unfortunately on rey too. He was sneaky.

You did have a good track record. Rey played a really sneaky and very good game here, definitely. I had a hard time reading him this time around.

What made you block SE? Oh, and I do have a bit of advice from you on handling this one. When you did ask for my opinion about SE, and I gave you my read (that he was leaning civvie for me or didn't seem suspicious), why didn't you respond back to me saying you may really think there's a chance he's baddie, or anything like that? You were the blocker and you obviously blocked him on Night 2. The day that you went down, if you had responded back to me or anyone else, or even if you had initiated a discussion of, hey guys, I think SE might be baddie, then that might have helped your cause more and it might have helped us get rid of Hero earlier. At the absolute worst case scenario, it would have made SE arguing that he was civvie after your lynching even harder because you seemed so confident. But you did ask me about him a few times, so I realize you did try something like that.

There is a fine line between outing someone based on your power knowledge (don't do that) and trying to help the cause with what you know. I do think if you had argued SE a little more strongly after you blocked him that we could have been onto something.

Though, all of that being said, I now realize that you might have been unsure since I was protecting people. I really could have used you in that discussion with Ambray and llama, trying to figure out all the night actions. After that discussion was over, I did have a sneaking suspicion that Ambray survived because you blocked SE, but I didn't trust my gut evaluation there. Pity.

Snow Dog wrote:So Roxy knew to vote House. That's interesting.

Oh, yes and I forgot to add that each player that voted his or her own option got a plus one on their vote for the day one lynch. It ended up not mattering since the day one lynch was a pretty much unanimous.

So my vote was worth two because I got the "correct" option for my alignment?

I honestly just voted because I like boats.

Ninja'd by Kate. Got it!

Kate wrote:So I just got a pm asking about the day 0 poll. Here's how the poll worked.

It was a prize poll. The three answers were either the civ option, the indy option or the baddie option. Each was assigned randomly, ironically house was assigned to civ, which was kinda obvious but I didn't want to tweak the randomness since I was teaching Andrew... Ship was bad and bank was indy.

Three players in the game, selected randomly, were told what one of the options corresponded to (civ, indy or bad). Those players were Roxy, Russ and FH. I would have preferred that they were not all civs, but again, I didn't want to tweak the randomness since it was how Andrew and I decided to do it and I was teaching him...so it was what it was.

FWIW, we had to cut one role in this game which we really wanted to keep in. It was the bow and arrow. It was a civ role that the skeleton could search for, if found, the skeleton would recruit the bow and arrow. I liked this because it gave the civs, the baddies and the rogue, each a chance (a small chance) but a chance nonetheless) to get another player and it was "Andrew's artistic vision." Fyi, Andrew LOVES the recruit...

If Droopy had showed up earlier and we got the okay in time to add the other role, we would have added that role back in. I wish it had happened that way.

That's interesting. So the baddies didn't even know their own option? That's a bit unorthodox.

I do wish Droopy could have played with us here, he's an awesome player, and I'm sure he would have loved it -- and that does sound like it would have been a great plan for balancing the possible recruits -- sorry I didn't get back to you in time about your inquiry. I did realize though, after the fact, that it would have created some complications because full games are 20+ and yours was 19, so it would have pushed it technically into the currently defined structure for a full game.

Epignosis wrote:So my vote was worth two because I got the "correct" option for my alignment?

I honestly just voted because I like boats.

Ninja'd by Kate. Got it!

That is so funny. I definitely was thinking Ship was the baddie option after I realized I got something for House because very typically in these boon polls, the baddies know their option, and I knew House wasn't the baddie option after I received my extra vote.

You put up an awesome fight this game, I would say I was sorry to see you go so early since it was our first game together, but I wasn't since you were baddie, and I especially wasn't since you killed me! Lol.

That Day 1 poll was really an exciting one. If indi hadn't come in and made me think twice about the connections between you and Elohcin, I probably wouldn't have voted for you or thought you were baddie, and it's even funnier now given Elohcin wasn't even on your team!

I hate when you're a baddie and someone accuses you of a behavior that you are sure you would have done regardless of your alignment OR they accuse you of being connected with someone else and you aren't, yet it gets you eyed. It definitely can be frustrating. So you go to try to defend yourself and you get eyed even more because now you are actually exhibiting some more clearly baddie behavior, and then it all tumbles down from there. The same thing happened to me in MacGyver. I would have said that same comment to Roxy and I would have likely voted for LT if I was civvie because those were my honest thoughts (though it's hard to say what I would have done exactly), but then it was my behavior after I started getting eyes that brought out the classic baddie behavior in me and got me lynched.

LOL, does Elohcin like my new signature?

Thanks to Daisy for making this for me!

I will be very busy the next few days and seriously will leave the thread alone here, lol, but I also realized I wanted to also say that I enjoyed being on the same side of the fence with FH particularly in this game because the last couple games we have played I was baddie and she was civvie and she was often the first to distrust me. Definitely always had great input and you played an awesome game. Likewise to Rox, I thought you often had many good things to say. I think you two particularly played excellent games here. Ambray, I definitely thought you were Stevie at first, then was thinking potion, but then when I got the potioned effect to vote for BWT I was very confused. Lol.

Really, I would be hard pressed to say that anyone here didn't play a great game regardless of their alignment. Again, I must stress this was a great game.

And I look forward to playing another game with Elohcin and hopefully not to be eating socks next time!

OMG love your new siggy, Alex!

Another fun and awesome game by Andrew (and Kate, of course) well done, Andrew - you are very creative and learning fast. I cannot wait for the day that you get to play

Spaghetti - I had a lot of fun in our BTSC, you did great in this game!

Also, who killed me? And why?

I have nothing to do. When is the next quick game due?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Thanks Kate and Alex. I am looking forward to more games and maybe settle on a style of play that sits better. Don't want to be too readable though.

No problem, man. You have a pretty good style, and I admire your balls to the wall approach, and I think it makes games more interesting (props to llama for this as well). I can appreciate that especially because I try to do the same, especially because sometimes it isn't the "best" approach and can get you eyed regardless of your alignment. I guess the best advice is if you want to continue that approach to just try and think things through as much as possible, and this is certainly advice that I need to take from myself as well, as I can sometimes go for the long haul on a theory and stick with it. It's hard because especially early in the game and as a civvie, all you have to go off of is what's already in the thread, so you could be totally wrong, but at the same time if your gut is screaming big time you really feel confident about it, despite the fact that you could be off the mark.

All of that being said, I think you, llama, and I are the Three Amigos of Extraordinarily Unnecessary Participation (TAEUP) or something like that. I'll think of a better name, hopefully. Open to suggestions. Lol.

Snow Dog wrote:btw. All the people I suspected turned out bad. Except Roxy but I quickly backpeddled on her. Unfortunately on rey too. He was sneaky.

You did have a good track record. Rey played a really sneaky and very good game here, definitely. I had a hard time reading him this time around.

What made you block SE? Oh, and I do have a bit of advice from you on handling this one. When you did ask for my opinion about SE, and I gave you my read (that he was leaning civvie for me or didn't seem suspicious), why didn't you respond back to me saying you may really think there's a chance he's baddie, or anything like that? You were the blocker and you obviously blocked him on Night 2. The day that you went down, if you had responded back to me or anyone else, or even if you had initiated a discussion of, hey guys, I think SE might be baddie, then that might have helped your cause more and it might have helped us get rid of Hero earlier. At the absolute worst case scenario, it would have made SE arguing that he was civvie after your lynching even harder because you seemed so confident. But you did ask me about him a few times, so I realize you did try something like that.

There is a fine line between outing someone based on your power knowledge (don't do that) and trying to help the cause with what you know. I do think if you had argued SE a little more strongly after you blocked him that we could have been onto something.

Though, all of that being said, I now realize that you might have been unsure since I was protecting people. I really could have used you in that discussion with Ambray and llama, trying to figure out all the night actions. After that discussion was over, I did have a sneaking suspicion that Ambray survived because you blocked SE, but I didn't trust my gut evaluation there. Pity.

I was not certain enough about SE to say more. Just wanted to see what you said. But I blocked him to test my theory and see if anyone was not killed or insanified. I always suspected Boogs since his urge to lynch me. It wasn't just a proposal it was a let's-lynch snowdog-next. So I blocked him. And Herobrine failed in his attack. Which is why I needed to know if you had protected the survivor. I had to be clear what my block had done.
So I knew Boogs wasn't Herobrine form that moment because he simply couldn't be if it was you who did the protection.

LittleTiger wrote:
Also, who killed me? And why?

I think rey did it. I think we were debating between you and Roxy.

Seems like Roxy would have been the better choice!

Epignosis wrote:

LittleTiger wrote:
Also, who killed me? And why?

I think rey did it. I think we were debating between you and Roxy.

Seems like Roxy would have been the better choice!

Wow, that's an understatement right there lol... If you guys had tried to kill Rox you would have failed but eliminated her protection thus giving a hint that she was stevie. She most likely would have died before taking out both the creeper and hero. That was a huge decision right there...

Oh, and I never mentioned, I think there were actually tears in Andrew's eyes the night the Villager and the Potion died. His two favorite roles in one night. I actually felt bad about roles dying lol. Poor kid, made me realize he totally is not ready to play yet. He could never take being lynched...

Thanks to everyone for not trying to kill me, block me or insanify me

I will add to what MP has already said. This game has helped me learn a bit more about Rusty, llama and Snow Dog's styles. While I can't say I will never lynch them again I will be giving what they post a lot more weight. <3

Linky Kate - poor Andrew - all heart for his creation - it is precious! I cannot wait until he is ready to play.

Roxy wrote:Thanks to everyone for not trying to kill me, block me or insanify me

I will add to what MP has already said. This game has helped me learn a bit more about Rusty, llama and Snow Dog's styles. While I can't say I will never lynch them again I will be giving what they post a lot more weight. <3

Linky Kate - poor Andrew - all heart for his creation - it is precious! I cannot wait until he is ready to play.

LOL...and the little mafia addiction bug is so hereditary. He already wants to write another one. He was disappointed to hear there was already a Mario mafia, but excited to hear I won as Bowser.

PS, FH, Andrew thinks its incredibly cool that Mario and Luigi were the bad guys lol!

Yay! I definitely had fun imagining Mario and Luigi as the bad guys who are always so mean to Bowser. Andrew should write a Mario themed one anyway! I never mind repeated themes because the roles are bound to be different and will still be tons of fun.

And I'll always sign up for an Andrew game.

LittleTiger wrote:Another fun and awesome game by Andrew (and Kate, of course) well done, Andrew - you are very creative and learning fast. I cannot wait for the day that you get to play

Spaghetti - I had a lot of fun in our BTSC, you did great in this game!

Also, who killed me? And why?

It was actually my idea LT lol It was random and I said you were too quiet so most of the suggestions were mine that I ran by DP and Rey so they could send it in But I thought you and BF were wolves and so I thought us killing you guys that weren't posting as much then lynching the talkers was a good strategy i was doing I still am amazed i survived til the end even with my teammates saying i needed to lay low and kept doing ballsy moves. This was a very fun first mafia game even thought i wish I had been Civ haha

I actually felt really bad about my post mentioning Boogs after I had posted it...I definitely violated some posting rules there and was really guilty when FH brought up my post.

MP, to answer your question I figured out Epi was Zombie exactly how I said I did in the thread. I deduced that if he had been a different baddie role distancing would have been a much smarter tactic, so I figured he had been forced into the lynch switch against his will and thus must have been zombie. Turns out it was really unfortunate I was right. It also stunk that I didn't get a chance to properly defend, being on my phone and having limited internet while in Austria, but I honestly think I would've been lynched no matter what after you posted your case. You are truly an excellent casebuilder. The sheer size of those things is intimidating and convincing, and you tend to make really well-reasoned points, even if they're not always spot-on (as in my case).

I've really been enjoying playing with everyone so far! I feel like I'm starting to be able to read some of you, and I'm really excited for the next full-length game.

More Mario-themed mafia games is always a good thing! I've actually been throwing around Super Mario Galaxy and Luigi's Mansion games in my mind, but those won't possibly see the light of day for a while because I have many other prospects to concentrate on first.

Snow Dog wrote: I was not certain enough about SE to say more. Just wanted to see what you said. But I blocked him to test my theory and see if anyone was not killed or insanified. I always suspected Boogs since his urge to lynch me. It wasn't just a proposal it was a let's-lynch snowdog-next. So I blocked him. And Herobrine failed in his attack. Which is why I needed to know if you had protected the survivor. I had to be clear what my block had done.
So I knew Boogs wasn't Herobrine form that moment because he simply couldn't be if it was you who did the protection.

Makes sense. I know; I wish we had had a more direct conversation about it, it's a shame you had to go that lynch, but it is what it is. At least the civvies still won, that's all that matters.

Russtifinko wrote:I actually felt really bad about my post mentioning Boogs after I had posted it...I definitely violated some posting rules there and was really guilty when FH brought up my post.

MP, to answer your question I figured out Epi was Zombie exactly how I said I did in the thread. I deduced that if he had been a different baddie role distancing would have been a much smarter tactic, so I figured he had been forced into the lynch switch against his will and thus must have been zombie. Turns out it was really unfortunate I was right. It also stunk that I didn't get a chance to properly defend, being on my phone and having limited internet while in Austria, but I honestly think I would've been lynched no matter what after you posted your case. You are truly an excellent casebuilder. The sheer size of those things is intimidating and convincing, and you tend to make really well-reasoned points, even if they're not always spot-on (as in my case).

I've really been enjoying playing with everyone so far! I feel like I'm starting to be able to read some of you, and I'm really excited for the next full-length game.

I wouldn't beat yourself up over what you said about Boogs too much; I've definitely seen worse. It's not the best strategy in every sense of the word though, you're probably right.

Wow, nice call on that one then. I thought it might be too hard to tell based off of that logic. That does suck, I hate when cases can come against you at the time you least have free to defend, but it happens from time to time. You may be right. I appreciate the kind words. Some games as a civvie for me are just flat out terrible, some are actually kind pretty decent, when it comes to the case building front. I certainly try my best in that regard, and I have far from the best track record, but I am actually right sometimes, lol.

I certainly look forward to playing another game with you and everyone else as well!

Info roles are hard to play and Russ had the only almost info role in the whole game and had to figure out on his own how to play it. Not to mention he hit pay dirt!

Congrats to Rox, Blindfaeth, Flyin' High, Llama and BWT!

Thanks Kate!

Flyin' High wrote:Thanks Kate!

Its always cool to win something that you actually like so you can wear the banner!

Hey how did you get the banner?

Boogs wrote:Hey how did you get the banner?

Look at banner, Michael!