The Syndicate

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:00 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:57 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:45 pm I still think Rico bussing Epi wouldn’t be good strategy, but it might not matter as much as I thought it did. What matters more is if Rico would think it was good strategy and I don’t have much of an idea whether he would. One thing that is imo a slightly good point for Rico around Epi is that he didn’t do more to bury Epi and maximize cred. He just said Epi looked worse and left it at that.

I'll be the first to say that is within range for a bus.

My virtue call of not being wolf is not that I killed Epig in the tiebkreak.

My virtue call of not being wolf is that I did not sink you, given that the timing and tally I arrived had that on a plate. Press the button, cook up a sentence, or just vote etc.

This is TMI





IMO

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:51 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:04 pm
POEs as a concept in a game that is basically mountainous is not binary. Process of elimination should culminate into best guesses, but literally no one can be eliminated from the suspicion list without mech

You are seeming to operate under the assumption that bing bang boom the solve is set in stone, but have a hard time coming to the possibility that you yourself could be in the POE of town. Because as you know, at least one of falcon/myself is town

Which of us is being manipulative and which is being manipulated?

You are, in principle, correct, and I wish I would approach this more "fairly", if that's your issue. But my angle is 3 phases, 3 shots, wolf smoked out. It's good enough. It's mathematical enough.

Failure of this angle is likely, but then it will be cuz of a wolf-wolf wagon (which I would interpret as less likely) or of straight up reverse psych (which is extreme to contemplate, and extremely difficult to solve).

As for the question:

a. same to what I said to thunal, I'd prefer to try an in-depth answer later toDay

b. I'd like to state that "manipulated" may be in fact murky to ascertain, since you both seem to have built this angle on your own; I don't recall or would need to revisit any instance of one of you sheeping the other's point

c. I'd like you to restate the case from this; falcon gave an answer, at least; you, why not?

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:36 pm Thunal up 3 to 2 vs Epignosis, with SVS, Epignosis and myself still to vote

Enter thread

Flake another 20mins (I was undecided and unread), instead of making it a decisive 4-2

“It’s the only explanation, guys, only Maf would play like this”

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:04 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:00 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:57 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:45 pm I still think Rico bussing Epi wouldn’t be good strategy, but it might not matter as much as I thought it did. What matters more is if Rico would think it was good strategy and I don’t have much of an idea whether he would. One thing that is imo a slightly good point for Rico around Epi is that he didn’t do more to bury Epi and maximize cred. He just said Epi looked worse and left it at that.

I'll be the first to say that is within range for a bus.

My virtue call of not being wolf is not that I killed Epig in the tiebkreak.

My virtue call of not being wolf is that I did not sink you, given that the timing and tally I arrived had that on a plate. Press the button, cook up a sentence, or just vote etc.

This is TMI





IMO

I offered this rewind before and your answer was "just vote me then bro what you waiting". Are you that unable to repeatedly explain the reasoning for a wolf verdict on that instead of just framing it as such?

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:04 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:51 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:04 pm
POEs as a concept in a game that is basically mountainous is not binary. Process of elimination should culminate into best guesses, but literally no one can be eliminated from the suspicion list without mech

You are seeming to operate under the assumption that bing bang boom the solve is set in stone, but have a hard time coming to the possibility that you yourself could be in the POE of town. Because as you know, at least one of falcon/myself is town

Which of us is being manipulative and which is being manipulated?

You are, in principle, correct, and I wish I would approach this more "fairly", if that's your issue. But my angle is 3 phases, 3 shots, wolf smoked out. It's good enough. It's mathematical enough.

Failure of this angle is likely, but then it will be cuz of a wolf-wolf wagon (which I would interpret as less likely) or of straight up reverse psych (which is extreme to contemplate, and extremely difficult to solve).

As for the question:

a. same to what I said to thunal, I'd prefer to try an in-depth answer later toDay

b. I'd like to state that "manipulated" may be in fact murky to ascertain, since you both seem to have built this angle on your own; I don't recall or would need to revisit any instance of one of you sheeping the other's point

c. I'd like you to restate the case from this; falcon gave an answer, at least; you, why not?

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:36 pm Thunal up 3 to 2 vs Epignosis, with SVS, Epignosis and myself still to vote

Enter thread

Flake another 20mins (I was undecided and unread), instead of making it a decisive 4-2

“It’s the only explanation, guys, only Maf would play like this”

c. You know what? No. I don’t know how many more times I can rehash the same thing. If anything, I’ve overexplained my opinion on this spanning back to D3, and am in disbelief that you haven’t caught it in your read

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:26 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:04 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:00 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:57 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:45 pm I still think Rico bussing Epi wouldn’t be good strategy, but it might not matter as much as I thought it did. What matters more is if Rico would think it was good strategy and I don’t have much of an idea whether he would. One thing that is imo a slightly good point for Rico around Epi is that he didn’t do more to bury Epi and maximize cred. He just said Epi looked worse and left it at that.

I'll be the first to say that is within range for a bus.

My virtue call of not being wolf is not that I killed Epig in the tiebkreak.

My virtue call of not being wolf is that I did not sink you, given that the timing and tally I arrived had that on a plate. Press the button, cook up a sentence, or just vote etc.

This is TMI





IMO

I offered this rewind before and your answer was "just vote me then bro what you waiting". Are you that unable to repeatedly explain the reasoning for a wolf verdict on that instead of just framing it as such?

It seems to me you're saying you should be TR by virtue of the fact you did not vote off Thunal...which implies that you know her alignment.






Cuz while it's true, you may TR her slot, you don't KNOW she's town. Especially since, if you had been TR her slot the whole time, it's not even a big decision on who to vote for, Thun or Epi

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:26 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:04 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:51 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:04 pm
POEs as a concept in a game that is basically mountainous is not binary. Process of elimination should culminate into best guesses, but literally no one can be eliminated from the suspicion list without mech

You are seeming to operate under the assumption that bing bang boom the solve is set in stone, but have a hard time coming to the possibility that you yourself could be in the POE of town. Because as you know, at least one of falcon/myself is town

Which of us is being manipulative and which is being manipulated?

You are, in principle, correct, and I wish I would approach this more "fairly", if that's your issue. But my angle is 3 phases, 3 shots, wolf smoked out. It's good enough. It's mathematical enough.

Failure of this angle is likely, but then it will be cuz of a wolf-wolf wagon (which I would interpret as less likely) or of straight up reverse psych (which is extreme to contemplate, and extremely difficult to solve).

As for the question:

a. same to what I said to thunal, I'd prefer to try an in-depth answer later toDay

b. I'd like to state that "manipulated" may be in fact murky to ascertain, since you both seem to have built this angle on your own; I don't recall or would need to revisit any instance of one of you sheeping the other's point

c. I'd like you to restate the case from this; falcon gave an answer, at least; you, why not?

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:36 pm Thunal up 3 to 2 vs Epignosis, with SVS, Epignosis and myself still to vote

Enter thread

Flake another 20mins (I was undecided and unread), instead of making it a decisive 4-2

“It’s the only explanation, guys, only Maf would play like this”

c. You know what? No. I don’t know how many more times I can rehash the same thing. If anything, I’ve overexplained my opinion on this spanning back to D3, and am in disbelief that you haven’t caught it in your read

Bro. You do know you picked the wrong guy to taunt at ISO'ing and showing you the receipts, right?

#1151, arguments

Rico should not be cleared - was gonna make the same point Falcon already did [my note: oh, I already stand correct, here's a slight sheep]
Rico is suddenly playing - how convenient.
Rico is wolf for suddenly playing.

#1192, arguments

Rico if bad had no option but to wake up and play
Epig was likely to go over [my note: although you pulled up AN INCOMPLETE tally in which it was 2-2, ignoring Syn's 3-2 move], so Rico should not be cleared for his vote.

#1236, arguments

What strategy other than bussing Epig could Rico possibly adopt to reach endgame [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context

#1269

Appears to be a partial argument, in agreement with falcon [sheep #2?], that Rico not being NK is tinfoil for wolf.

#1272

Rico is bad for coming back to life.
Rico is bad for tiebreaking Epig and taking a town claim for it. [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context]

#1326

Rico is bad for being committed to low-posting.
Rico is bad for wanting to solve his PoE.

#1338

Rico is bad for bussing Epig and taking a town claim for it. [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context]

#1384

Rico is bad for wanting to solve his PoE, but not fine-tuning it in the process.

====

So no. Not only did you not overexplained it, but did not explain ONCE the vote progression context and why wolf-me did not lynch Thunal button at the tip of the finger.

Congrats, Scotty.

You are the manipulative.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:44 pm It's F5 & Rico has 2 votes.






If Thunal is Maf, she could easily hammer. Ditto Nut






Perhaps they're being patient, but I think as Maf they'd still have every excuse to just hammer and go to F3

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:11 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:44 pm It's F5 & Rico has 2 votes.






If Thunal is Maf, she could easily hammer. Ditto Nut






Perhaps they're being patient, but I think as Maf they'd still have every excuse to just hammer and go to F3

I wouldn’t blame them to just hammer away in any alignment, though that does help.

I also think you voting first and early makes you look towny

Wanna be town buds with me?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:48 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:41 pm falcon, PoE candidate, will spin me wolf and vote me - check

Scotty, PoE candidate, will spin me wolf and vote me - check

We can't both be Maf, and in fact from your perspective (if town) we very well both might be town.





This take is not a town mindset

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:00 pm Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:30 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:00 pm Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

To be fair, that is probably the main thing that brings him into the towny discussion. He didn’t do much until then.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:49 pm I'm leaning voting Rico now, but I'm not going to hammer yet. Now that Rico is in the PoE if he were town he'd need to find the wolf not a PoE of 2 and I feel like there's a lack of interest in that. Like "Scotty is the manipulative" feels like he's putting a lot of effort to discredit Scotty without outright calling him a wolf, and there's not the sort of impressions I would expect from a townie. Like I'd expect a townie to have real-time thoughts and impressions of how people are treating him and that's almost absent.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:00 pm Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:42 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:30 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:00 pm Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

To be fair, that is probably the main thing that brings him into the towny discussion. He didn’t do much until then.

That's true, and it is possible t!Rico just thinks it's the only thing clearing for him.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:07 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:49 pm I'm leaning voting Rico now, but I'm not going to hammer yet. Now that Rico is in the PoE if he were town he'd need to find the wolf not a PoE of 2 and I feel like there's a lack of interest in that. Like "Scotty is the manipulative" feels like he's putting a lot of effort to discredit Scotty without outright calling him a wolf, and there's not the sort of impressions I would expect from a townie. Like I'd expect a townie to have real-time thoughts and impressions of how people are treating him and that's almost absent.

This is becoming bothersome.
Having a PoE of 2 is (still) the range I find sufficient to smoke out the wolf. It's true for anyone else, whether they "stick to this plan" or mislynch me and embrace a different game tomorrow.
The quote line came at the end of a proper analysis. And it is answer to what not only you, but Scotty as well, asked. Now it's being seen as discrediting. Ok.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:00 pm Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

One, it is not in a vacuum, it is in a specific context, and you are now the third player ignoring that context.
I didn't play shit until I made that shot.
I don't believe and never stated "I am townie", i.e. asked for cred, for anything.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:42 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:30 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:00 pm Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

To be fair, that is probably the main thing that brings him into the towny discussion. He didn’t do much until then.

That's true, and it is possible t!Rico just thinks it's the only thing clearing for him.

It is. You are now the third player ignoring that context etc.

Take me out, Thunal, nutella. A pool of three players now not looking at facts and context regarding that D2 vote is already too big, it basically means I've lost town support for the 3-PoE solve and for myself.
Take me out and good luck with the f3, whether you'll be there to manage it or you entrust it will be in others' better hands.

whatever counts as floof will go here eventually.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:11 pm Hmmmmm...



Nut knows I've had sus on them...does she leave me alive for F3, knowing I've been a snap voter?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:11 pm Hmmmmm...



Epi knows I've had sus on them...does she leave me alive for F3, knowing I've been a snap voter?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 2:15 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 2:12 pm Nutella - Is getting reads, specifically scumreads, in a way that I'm used to seeing her get where it basically snowballs.

...Where are you seeing this??

My first ever-so-slight pressure was on Marmot whom I now lean town. I haven't really had scumreads aside from defaulting to the 0-1 posters and shrugging a bit on Epi/Thunal for a couple pages (Thunal has moved up a little but subject to return). I just now put you on the bottom of my list and I don't think I had indicated that inclination much prior to responding to your post above.

My reads have not been following a particularly snowbally pattern at all. They've been in flux. Explain this read.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:12 pm I want to reevaluate everything and make sure I don't make a wrong choice.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:16 pm [VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:07 pm
No you're just smoking some really funky shit.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:32 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:16 pm [VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:07 pm
No you're just smoking some really funky shit.

You said LC pinged you right away. Was it for similar reasons as Nutella (that he had strange reads) or was it something else?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:39 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:32 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:16 pm [VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:07 pm
No you're just smoking some really funky shit.

You said LC pinged you right away. Was it for similar reasons as Nutella (that he had strange reads) or was it something else?

It was the way he handled the criticism, felt very defensive & performative

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:02 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:20 pm

Definitely kinda.

It feels more like a throwaway remark, like “I am town!”, than a serious attempt to actually appear towny.

It just seems somewhat (perhaps … kinda?) excess to needs. Not sure what, if anything it means. Performative.

Kinda. Maybe.

Awe, now you appear to be deflecting from your take, and minimizing my criticism by making this a half joke post.



Kinda...but, no actually

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:07 pm I'm fine voting LC, Dizzy, SVS

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:51 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:02 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:20 pm

Definitely kinda.

It feels more like a throwaway remark, like “I am town!”, than a serious attempt to actually appear towny.

It just seems somewhat (perhaps … kinda?) excess to needs. Not sure what, if anything it means. Performative.

Kinda. Maybe.

Awe, now you appear to be deflecting from your take, and minimizing my criticism by making this a half joke post.



Kinda...but, no actually

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:07 pm I'm fine voting LC, Dizzy, SVS

Was there progression from not really thinking SVS was deflecting to being fine voting her?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:08 pm @Thunal33 I've expressed before that Epi going after Nut looks like partner distancing, can you look at their interactions and see what you think?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:41 pm @nutella Where you at?