The Syndicate

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:40 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:50 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:14 pm I... honestly don't think Mac is a hit here.

I think Dennis and FS are always better options.

I think that I can't personally view FS for a myriad of reasons chief amongst them not being allowed to move lol

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:40 pm uwu.

But seriously I don't think I've ever seen wolf Mac play like this. He was disjointed in his reads in Mafia Misplay but he was aggressive and loud and trying to get Sabi deep.

Here he feels lost confused and disjointed. He feels low WiM but not wolfy.

I want to help Mac get his WiM back because I was kind of following along with his wagon structure posts and I know how stronk he can be and I think misexeing low WiM Mac d2 is game losing.

These are also the longest on-topic posts that Neon made on Day 2, and they were spent defending a chop of Mac.

I get being wrong and all, I was too. But she didn't put this amount of effort talking about Dennis (the counter wagon) or any other player.

Man it's cool that I was wrong on Dennis FS and Mac though.

Normal town neon moment.

Man I suck.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:41 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:37 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:34 pm Maybe it's game throwing but I won't elim Marmot

I appreciate it

Wanna be town masons with me

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:04 pm Wolves should have killed me

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:38 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:25 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:19 pm [VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Dig C1

***SIPPPPPPPPP***

You haven't mentioned me this entire game, can you talk about this vote?

Tbf I've barely mentioned anyone

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:35 pm Do you know when that occurred you? I can't find a post that voiced a read one way or the other on mac before that post about iso'ing him, and in that moment, you seemed to be considering fingersplints primarily.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:30 pm I AM RUINING THE THREAD STATE.

I WILL NOT BEING GIRLBOSSING AND GASLIGHTING THIS GAME GN

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:46 pm What in Mac's ISO made you go "wow he's a wolf"?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:23 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:21 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:21 pm I'd elim Marmot.

Not if neon or Wilgz are still alive

Sabi, what are you to do when you realize that I'm not wolf?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:48 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:46 pm What in Mac's ISO made you go "wow he's a wolf"?

Bareft's post from Cartomancy.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:40 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:37 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:34 pm Maybe it's game throwing but I won't elim Marmot

I appreciate it

mfw it's actually Sabi/Mac/Marmot

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:42 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:40 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:50 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:14 pm I... honestly don't think Mac is a hit here.

I think Dennis and FS are always better options.

I think that I can't personally view FS for a myriad of reasons chief amongst them not being allowed to move lol

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:40 pm uwu.

But seriously I don't think I've ever seen wolf Mac play like this. He was disjointed in his reads in Mafia Misplay but he was aggressive and loud and trying to get Sabi deep.

Here he feels lost confused and disjointed. He feels low WiM but not wolfy.

I want to help Mac get his WiM back because I was kind of following along with his wagon structure posts and I know how stronk he can be and I think misexeing low WiM Mac d2 is game losing.

These are also the longest on-topic posts that Neon made on Day 2, and they were spent defending a chop of Mac.

I get being wrong and all, I was too. But she didn't put this amount of effort talking about Dennis (the counter wagon) or any other player.

Man it's cool that I was wrong on Dennis FS and Mac though.

Normal town neon moment.

Man I suck.

I mean I literally did the same thing :wowee:

Mostly

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:44 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:38 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:25 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:19 pm [VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Dig C1

***SIPPPPPPPPP***

You haven't mentioned me this entire game, can you talk about this vote?

Tbf I've barely mentioned anyone

I know, but I still wanna know why you placed it.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:55 pm Marmot is my Mason

Leave him alone

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:50 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:48 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:46 pm What in Mac's ISO made you go "wow he's a wolf"?

Bareft's post from Cartomancy.

I don't follow.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:54 pmI'm bored

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:04 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:50 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:48 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:46 pm What in Mac's ISO made you go "wow he's a wolf"?

Bareft's post from Cartomancy.

I don't follow.

Quote from another game in a spoiler to make it clear this is NOT FROM THIS GAME:

Spoiler: show

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:35 pm B. If you hadn't noticed I have Creature as solid town, falcon as lean town, and Porscha as town, and Mac/SPF may have some deviations here but none of us are put bulldozing these players.
C. Actually I simply think town got off to a horrible start D1. I say this from the simple fact of the Baudib's wagon existence. I know you don't agree that Baudib was obvious town but as far as I'm concerned there was at minimum some number of town pursuing things that I would label inadvisable and there were definitely tensions that grew from the fact that Alison/Mac/Lucy/Baudib were telling people to "shut up and stop doing stupid things because we said so", and so these people never got around the fact that they think Mac's controlling the game in an evil direction simply from the fact he told them to stop wagoning their pet scumreads. That's a very nice story and all, but my point is that I don't actually current think you need that much control over the game to get a successful Moon use to cause an Alison chop. The recipe was right there, in D1, no one trusted Alison, and you want to know who pushed Alison and added to the boiling pot? Spoiler alert, its some of the people I'm suspecting.

The obvious counterargument is "but what about Mac's D2, he told everyone to vote for Alison for however long" to which I will simply state that I understand the concern but actually here's how to read Mac, so we segue into:

A. The first point about reading Mac, is that you can get a good idea just entirely based on Mac's stated reads, not their accuracy, but his stated explanations and read development. Mac's great at spinning BS and bussing, but the point is that he's not great at faking reasonable reads or for that matter reevaluating. I'm not going to bother explaining why I think Mac's D1 reads are reasonable since you obviously don't think they are and I will only come off as even more a snob. However, Mac's ... breakdown D2 is as far as I'm concerned a v!Mac. Do you think w!Mac bothers faking vulnerability? Not well, not in any way thats grounded. He stated clearly why he suddenly pivoted onto Alison, and thats because of a breakdown in confidence of worldview. Why was there a breadown in confidence of worldview? Because certain of his scumreads were showing town entitlement, these were Falcon and (Dr.Wilgy? I cant remember and I might be biased) and he had never expressed townreading Alison that confidently. Then he switches to actually I change my mind, I haven't a clue, and actually don't kill Alison. This is a massive amount of flexibility and whether you like it or not, its not easy to pull of convincingly as wolf, nor does it give him any benefit of wolf when everyone will be going "bro wtf was that". I am not going to talk about Mac's D3 and attempt to justify that its genuine frustration on Mac's part, but that is what I think.

In any case, it is much easier for me to say "oh I townread Mac", because I can follow basically all of his stated thought processes while others have not.

X. I strongly believe in my own ability to read Mac to speculate on the w/w nature of the interactions you cited. Besides the fact that I think most preflip claimed w/w interactions are in general weak, I do think SPF could have come to a similar assessment as I have, and this is just based on SPF being a stronger player and they've already echoed my general thrust that the reason Mac is town is that "actually Mac is polarized". And lastly, the point where Mac doubles around and asks SPF "so why don't you scumread me" is emblematic of Mac's townplay in that he will ask pointed questions out of the blue to the people he townreads for paranoia reasons. Theoretically SPF can be a wolf in all of this but these are not interactions w/w with Mac. Mac as a wolf would've likely theatred more with SPF as a partner, this interaction is pretty tame.




Why did I do this to myself.

This was on my mind at the time I skimmed Mac's ISO and I don't remember anything specific in the ISO that I didn't like, more just the general feeling of flatness, coupled with just having spoken in length to Bereft about Mac possibly being polarized. I was not confident, but I thought he was mafia.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:26 pmnothing?

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:53 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:44 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:38 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:25 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:19 pm [VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Dig C1

***SIPPPPPPPPP***

You haven't mentioned me this entire game, can you talk about this vote?

Tbf I've barely mentioned anyone

I know, but I still wanna know why you placed it.

If I said self pres would you believe me?

I think it's always me or you today and I know I'm town.

Also I think that one of us was just wrong because we are woof and the other is wrong cause they suck at Mafia (that one is me)

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:28 am

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:53 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:44 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:38 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:25 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:19 pm [VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Dig C1

***SIPPPPPPPPP***

You haven't mentioned me this entire game, can you talk about this vote?

Tbf I've barely mentioned anyone

I know, but I still wanna know why you placed it.

If I said self pres would you believe me?

I think it's always me or you today and I know I'm town.

Also I think that one of us was just wrong because we are woof and the other is wrong cause they suck at Mafia (that one is me)

I don't think I would, but I also don't think I've seen a self-prez vote as the first vote of the day before.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:26 amwhat's a cross

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:23 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:04 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:50 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:48 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:46 pm What in Mac's ISO made you go "wow he's a wolf"?

Bareft's post from Cartomancy.

I don't follow.

Quote from another game in a spoiler to make it clear this is NOT FROM THIS GAME:

Spoiler: show

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:35 pm B. If you hadn't noticed I have Creature as solid town, falcon as lean town, and Porscha as town, and Mac/SPF may have some deviations here but none of us are put bulldozing these players.
C. Actually I simply think town got off to a horrible start D1. I say this from the simple fact of the Baudib's wagon existence. I know you don't agree that Baudib was obvious town but as far as I'm concerned there was at minimum some number of town pursuing things that I would label inadvisable and there were definitely tensions that grew from the fact that Alison/Mac/Lucy/Baudib were telling people to "shut up and stop doing stupid things because we said so", and so these people never got around the fact that they think Mac's controlling the game in an evil direction simply from the fact he told them to stop wagoning their pet scumreads. That's a very nice story and all, but my point is that I don't actually current think you need that much control over the game to get a successful Moon use to cause an Alison chop. The recipe was right there, in D1, no one trusted Alison, and you want to know who pushed Alison and added to the boiling pot? Spoiler alert, its some of the people I'm suspecting.

The obvious counterargument is "but what about Mac's D2, he told everyone to vote for Alison for however long" to which I will simply state that I understand the concern but actually here's how to read Mac, so we segue into:

A. The first point about reading Mac, is that you can get a good idea just entirely based on Mac's stated reads, not their accuracy, but his stated explanations and read development. Mac's great at spinning BS and bussing, but the point is that he's not great at faking reasonable reads or for that matter reevaluating. I'm not going to bother explaining why I think Mac's D1 reads are reasonable since you obviously don't think they are and I will only come off as even more a snob. However, Mac's ... breakdown D2 is as far as I'm concerned a v!Mac. Do you think w!Mac bothers faking vulnerability? Not well, not in any way thats grounded. He stated clearly why he suddenly pivoted onto Alison, and thats because of a breakdown in confidence of worldview. Why was there a breadown in confidence of worldview? Because certain of his scumreads were showing town entitlement, these were Falcon and (Dr.Wilgy? I cant remember and I might be biased) and he had never expressed townreading Alison that confidently. Then he switches to actually I change my mind, I haven't a clue, and actually don't kill Alison. This is a massive amount of flexibility and whether you like it or not, its not easy to pull of convincingly as wolf, nor does it give him any benefit of wolf when everyone will be going "bro wtf was that". I am not going to talk about Mac's D3 and attempt to justify that its genuine frustration on Mac's part, but that is what I think.

In any case, it is much easier for me to say "oh I townread Mac", because I can follow basically all of his stated thought processes while others have not.

X. I strongly believe in my own ability to read Mac to speculate on the w/w nature of the interactions you cited. Besides the fact that I think most preflip claimed w/w interactions are in general weak, I do think SPF could have come to a similar assessment as I have, and this is just based on SPF being a stronger player and they've already echoed my general thrust that the reason Mac is town is that "actually Mac is polarized". And lastly, the point where Mac doubles around and asks SPF "so why don't you scumread me" is emblematic of Mac's townplay in that he will ask pointed questions out of the blue to the people he townreads for paranoia reasons. Theoretically SPF can be a wolf in all of this but these are not interactions w/w with Mac. Mac as a wolf would've likely theatred more with SPF as a partner, this interaction is pretty tame.




Why did I do this to myself.

This was on my mind at the time I skimmed Mac's ISO and I don't remember anything specific in the ISO that I didn't like, more just the general feeling of flatness, coupled with just having spoken in length to Bereft about Mac possibly being polarized. I was not confident, but I thought he was mafia.

Hmmm ok,

That's what I saw too, but I couldn't pull the trigger.

You should've showed me this yesterday.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:37 am Marmot
Lucy
Falcon

Everyone else was townie

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:43 am I think Wilgy is town. He would have voted Falcon otherwise. So his wagon probably has 1 mafia on it.

There's a maf in the Falcon voters probably.

Other one is off wagon.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:51 pm Well sabi is mafia with Dennis gg.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:11 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:10 pm Mac this game does remind me of Mac from League Mafia Game 3 where he was a wolf, but for vague reasons I can't articulate, so I'll just sleep on that read for now.

Really?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:16 pm if I die here please kill pyxxy and Dennis. Fingersplints is probably the 3rd or she'd have voted Dennis earlier. And his read on her is very partnery.

GL town.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:16 pm if I die here please kill pyxxy and Dennis. Fingersplints is probably the 3rd or she'd have voted Dennis earlier. And his read on her is very partnery.

GL town.

Just based on Mac's ISO:

There's minimal interaction with Seanzie.

Sabi feels much worse.

Pyxxy I'm tinfoiling.

Marmot is clear.

Mac's interactions with Lucy are weird bud idk how to read them.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:37 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:16 pm if I die here please kill pyxxy and Dennis. Fingersplints is probably the 3rd or she'd have voted Dennis earlier. And his read on her is very partnery.

GL town.

Just based on Mac's ISO:

There's minimal interaction with Seanzie.

Sabi feels much worse.

Pyxxy I'm tinfoiling.

Marmot is clear.

Mac's interactions with Lucy are weird bud idk how to read them.

"Just based on Mac's ISO:"
"Marmot is clear."

How much does the first part influence the second part?

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:54 pm pyxxy has been the quitest thus far today, which is a little concerning to me. @pyxxy voting Mac when you did basically townclears you in my eyes, but what does your solve look like now?


Given the vc, I would encourage people to at least solve between Neon/myself to start with. If you think that we're both town and want to look elsewhere, fine. But finding another viable wagon will be harder to get over than one of us atm.

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:06 pm I was wrong. I was an idiot. I was snowed hard by Mac but that doesn't make me wolf

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:16 pm if I die here please kill pyxxy and Dennis. Fingersplints is probably the 3rd or she'd have voted Dennis earlier. And his read on her is very partnery.

GL town.

Just based on Mac's ISO:

There's minimal interaction with Seanzie.

Sabi feels much worse.

Pyxxy I'm tinfoiling.

Marmot is clear.

Mac's interactions with Lucy are weird bud idk how to read them.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:31 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:16 pm if I die here please kill pyxxy and Dennis. Fingersplints is probably the 3rd or she'd have voted Dennis earlier. And his read on her is very partnery.

GL town.

Just based on Mac's ISO:

There's minimal interaction with Seanzie.

Sabi feels much worse.

Pyxxy I'm tinfoiling.

Marmot is clear.

Mac's interactions with Lucy are weird bud idk how to read them.

Skill. Issue.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:21 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:06 pm I was wrong. I was an idiot. I was snowed hard by Mac but that doesn't make me wolf

@DrWilgy does this remind you of what IAWY did in the Secret Playerlist game? After IAWY got caught trying to save Vivax and push Falcon?

I'm asking because you were paired with IAWY

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:19 am The foot wins

IAWY and Wilgy were the last mafia.

Thanks for playing team. Thread is open.

Will makes some comments when it's not new years eve.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:00 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:31 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:16 pm if I die here please kill pyxxy and Dennis. Fingersplints is probably the 3rd or she'd have voted Dennis earlier. And his read on her is very partnery.

GL town.

Just based on Mac's ISO:

There's minimal interaction with Seanzie.

Sabi feels much worse.

Pyxxy I'm tinfoiling.

Marmot is clear.

Mac's interactions with Lucy are weird bud idk how to read them.

Skill. Issue.

Ah. Yes. A non constructive comment in opposition to a well placed suspicion.