[TOWN WIN] Lost in Space Mafia

[NotAnAxehole]

I'm going to re-read because I really want to win this game, but man... I'm still not over D1, this game should have been super easy. The only player I'm probably not going to re-evaluate is Creature.

[NotAnAxehole]

For everyone wondering why I'm not in my game-throwing meta, you can simply assume that I realized that Alison was mafia and decided I wanted to win. For reasonable people who don't buy into that meta, no change.

[MacDougall]

I'm going to re-read because I really want to win this game, but man... I'm still not over D1, this game should have been super easy. The only player I'm probably not going to re-evaluate is Creature.

I feel the same about Creature

[MacDougall]

@DrWilgy @Seanzie I believe one of you is mafia. I believe the NK spews it more likely to be Seanzie. Wilgy why do you feel like "it can only be mac"? Why would I ever kill Falcon?

[MacDougall]

I moved my vote off Creature and onto Seanzie. Creature had a vote on him (Wilgy). Seanzie had no vote. Alison then tries to push Seanzie and not Creature. She was clearly trying to take advantage of my vote to spew me mafia and Seanzie town. I think she was also trying to spew Creature mafia by refusing to push him. The whole day was a setup to make me and Creature the game winning miselims.

[Seanzie]

@DrWilgy @Seanzie I believe one of you is mafia. I believe the NK spews it more likely to be Seanzie. Wilgy why do you feel like "it can only be mac"? Why would I ever kill Falcon?

I'm assuming one of these questions is for me since you pinged me.

Why wouldn't you kill Falcon? He was widely townread all game, and especially clear after EoD. Plus... now you've got a (false) narrative to push.. that you really want to push... because you have so far failed to explain why you scumread me.

I also am almost like 98% to "it can only be Mac". Why aren't you asking me?

[Seanzie]

Thanks for the ghostvote Mac;)

[NotAnAxehole]

I kind of think Mac's right, and it's DrWilgy.

[Seanzie]

I kind of think Mac's right, and it's DrWilgy.

I think Mac is strongly positioning to try to get me miselimed, further pointing at Mac just being mafia,

But I'll entertain. What reason is there to townread Mac or scumread Wilgy?

[NotAnAxehole]

I kind of think Mac's right, and it's DrWilgy.

I think Mac is strongly positioning to try to get me miselimed, further pointing at Mac just being mafia,

But I'll entertain. What reason is there to townread Mac or scumread Wilgy?

Here is my legacy (under the assumption that Alison flips mafia):

I think Creature is town.

I think DrWilgy is town

I think Falcon is town


Here is my legacy (under the assumption that Seanzie flips mafia):

I think Mac is town.

I think DrWilgy is town

I think Falcon is town


Here is my legacy (under the assumption that Seanzie flips town):

I think DrWilgy is town

I think Falcon is town

I think Creature is town


Here is my legacy (under the possibility that Alison is town):

Fuck if I know, but I'll probably be alive.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The issue with my reads is that DrWilgy's play doesn't live up to the read. So as always in mafia, I'm stuck evaluating deviation from expectation rather than simple good vs bad (and this isn't a slight on anyone by the way).

Another issue with you and Mac at each other's throats which you'll have to understand is... As of right now, I have a mind to kill both of you, as I try to re-evaluate. Therefore if you're wrong on Mac and if Mac's wrong on you, it's game over. I think I'll start with re-reading as I said, but somehow you need to make this not a thunderdome, unless you're willing to stake the game on it.

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy @Seanzie I believe one of you is mafia. I believe the NK spews it more likely to be Seanzie. Wilgy why do you feel like "it can only be mac"? Why would I ever kill Falcon?

Fair enough Sheriff. I'll reread Seanzie's ISO to double check, but my assumption was based on how I read the interactions with Alison yesterday.

My memory serves proper, didn't Seanzie have a suspicion on Alison rather early in the day tough? And would've that been necessary of a partner in crime?

[NotAnAxehole]

@DrWilgy @Seanzie I believe one of you is mafia. I believe the NK spews it more likely to be Seanzie. Wilgy why do you feel like "it can only be mac"? Why would I ever kill Falcon?

Fair enough Sheriff. I'll reread Seanzie's ISO to double check, but my assumption was based on how I read the interactions with Alison yesterday.

My memory serves proper, didn't Seanzie have a suspicion on Alison rather early in the day tough? And would've that been necessary of a partner in crime?

Seanzie was pushing for Mac earlier in the day & Alison was pushing for me earlier in the day, Seanzie & Alison were each other's backup pushes.

[DrWilgy]

I moved my vote off Creature and onto Seanzie. Creature had a vote on him (Wilgy). Seanzie had no vote. Alison then tries to push Seanzie and not Creature. She was clearly trying to take advantage of my vote to spew me mafia and Seanzie town. I think she was trying to spew Creature mafia by refusing to push him. The whole day was a setup to make me and Creature the game winning miselims.

But sheriff, the problem with the line of Alison going to Creature is that bloke was still on a vanity wagon. Creature self defending would've just sent the varmint over. Seanzie already had voted Alison at this point right? I reckon the only chance for a tie was the new wagon that your vote opened.

[NotAnAxehole]

I'll tell you one thing - the issue with yesterday's vote is that DrWilgy stuck to Creature, Mac stuck to Seanzie. Surface level, Mac & Alison / Seanzie & Alison teams both had very limited options because Creature was a swing vote. Any move against Creature would be suicidal because Creature would swing the vote onto Alison, and Seanzie couldn't very well move onto himself.

This points to DrWilgy being town because he's the only player who could realistically have swung the vote.

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy @Seanzie I believe one of you is mafia. I believe the NK spews it more likely to be Seanzie. Wilgy why do you feel like "it can only be mac"? Why would I ever kill Falcon?

Fair enough Sheriff. I'll reread Seanzie's ISO to double check, but my assumption was based on how I read the interactions with Alison yesterday.

My memory serves proper, didn't Seanzie have a suspicion on Alison rather early in the day tough? And would've that been necessary of a partner in crime?

Seanzie was pushing for Mac earlier in the day & Alison was pushing for me earlier in the day, Seanzie & Alison were each other's backup pushes.

Hmmm... Perhaps I've misconstrued then. I'll review when home.

[NotAnAxehole]

I moved my vote off Creature and onto Seanzie. Creature had a vote on him (Wilgy). Seanzie had no vote. Alison then tries to push Seanzie and not Creature. She was clearly trying to take advantage of my vote to spew me mafia and Seanzie town. I think she was trying to spew Creature mafia by refusing to push him. The whole day was a setup to make me and Creature the game winning miselims.

But sheriff, the problem with the line of Alison going to Creature is that bloke was still on a vanity wagon. Creature self defending would've just sent the varmint over. Seanzie already had voted Alison at this point right? I reckon the only chance for a tie was the new wagon that your vote opened.

Yeah, the only chance for a tie was convincing creature, which is why I didn't post at EoD, I didn't want to accidentally rub Creature the wrong way (Also, I thought Creature was aka another person, but that's neither here nor there).

[MacDougall]

Alison didn't go to Seanzie until after I did. I'm sorry but if I was mafia and I'm already voting Creature with t!Wilgy I just push Creature and Alison crosses for self pres. Also Falcon would have been more inclined to vote Creature than Seanzie. Objectively makes no sense for me to do what I do as her partner and all of her play is designed to make me look as bad as possible.

[MacDougall]

If I was her partner I'd have just bussed tbh

[NotAnAxehole]

Alison didn't go to Seanzie until after I did. I'm sorry but if I was mafia and I'm already voting Creature with t!Wilgy I just push Creature and Alison crosses for self pres. Also Falcon would have been more inclined to vote Creature than Seanzie. Objectively makes no sense for me to do what I do as her partner and all of her play is designed to make me look as bad as possible.

This I also agree with. Alison's move to Seanzie was rather awkward and seemed to only happen because of Mac's vote.

[DrWilgy]

I reckon Seanzie did trigger my radar earlier while Mac didn't.

I'd rather have my vote there in the chance there's a hammer currently.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

[Seanzie]

Alison didn't go to Seanzie until after I did. I'm sorry but if I was mafia and I'm already voting Creature with t!Wilgy I just push Creature and Alison crosses for self pres. Also Falcon would have been more inclined to vote Creature than Seanzie. Objectively makes no sense for me to do what I do as her partner and all of her play is designed to make me look as bad as possible.

This completely ignores everything that happened early D2 and skips right to the end.

You and Alison ignoring me after me fighting you two for 6 hours and both of you committing to flaccid scumreads of me would have been weird.

Falcon only made that post about Creature right near EoD, after you were AFK.

You treated her with kids gloves all day, didn't consider her at all, you and her tried to powerwolf and failed.

Your Fext progression was crap and wolfy af. No way you make 3 posts suggesting a strong flip on your read on Fext, but then plant on there for almost 24 hours without trying to make waves in the thread over it.

Your attitude coming into D2 seeing Alison the top wagon over me strongly suggested you/Alison are partners. When I engaged with you and Alsion, you both were forgetting to engage with eachother because you both needed to push me/defend yourselves from me. After that night in order to bus, you would either have to admit that your pushes on me were total crap (which they were), or you'd be more-or-less outing.

[Seanzie]

If I was her partner I'd have just bussed tbh

Nah. Mac/Alison don't plan to bus in this setup. By the time you could have, it was much too late. You were too committed to me after the night.

[Seanzie]

Alison didn't go to Seanzie until after I did. I'm sorry but if I was mafia and I'm already voting Creature with t!Wilgy I just push Creature and Alison crosses for self pres. Also Falcon would have been more inclined to vote Creature than Seanzie. Objectively makes no sense for me to do what I do as her partner and all of her play is designed to make me look as bad as possible.

This I also agree with. Alison's move to Seanzie was rather awkward and seemed to only happen because of Mac's vote.

Dude... there is no way I sit there and argue with Alison for hours like I did if we're partners. It makes no sense.

There also would be no reason for both of us to go after Fext day 1.

Plus Mac would have been dead day 1.

[Creature]

Wondering what is the incentive for Alison and Seanzie to bus each other D2.

[Creature]

Maybe Alison was already a goner D2 though.

[Seanzie]

I reckon Seanzie did trigger my radar earlier while Mac didn't.

I'd rather have my vote there in the chance there's a hammer currently.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

No. Go actually read D2. Read as Mac and Alison try to attack me because I'm pushing Mac.

Mac and Alison definitely would powerwolf in this sort of situation, especially since Mac looked like crap after his Fext misstep. He couldn't afford to let Alison die.

Mac's "distancing" attempts on Alison are just bad, and there is no way I'm teamed with her. Falcon even wanted to go for Creature, and we could have just done that, or any other of 100 options other than me literally fighting with her for 6 hours because she was wolf.

I can't fake that. The way I went after Fext, Mac and Alison this game is not something I can fake as a wolf. I'd love to say it is, but it isn't. It just isn't. I try not to admit this because honestly if you know what to look for, I'm pretty polarized and I don't want people to know how to find me as wolf, but this is it.

[Seanzie]

There are like 100 arguments for scum!Mac here both involving Alison, and his individual play.

Look at my play, has anyone had an argument for me being scum off my play?

Mac is trying to argue I'm scum off NK's (which is easy for scum!Mac to manipulate).

The only other possible way someone could see me as scum here is because of interactions with Alison, but literally, look at what happened early D2. None of that would be necessary if me/Alison were wolves together. We were highly uncoordinated, I pushed her extremely hard, almost to the point of being rude, that isn't "distancing". Again, I can't fake that level of aggression on someone even if I want to.

It is Mac. I don't know how y'all can ignore all the wolfy crap he has done, or all the agenda he has. He has been obvious since he flipped his "scumread" into a townread on Fext but then didn't follow through because I kept pushing Fext (literally... this play makes no sense for me if I'm mafia. Mac messed up there. Look at how active he was D1 before that exact moment, and then how he just peaced out after for the rest of D1, except when I pressed the thread for content).

[Seanzie]

How this is even between me and Mac is beyond me. I am obvtown if you know how to find me. Sure, I was joking about it at first (but actually again... I know what I can and cannot do as wolf, and if you know what to look for, I really was obvtown), but there is no way I could push Fext, Alison and Mac as hard as I did if I was mafia.

I literally spent hours talking to Alison dissecting her posts and figuring out that she was mafia. Why was I able to find her? Because she was refusing to consider Mac. Mac's D1 is outing for him if you know what to look for, and as I pushed Alison about this, her engagement with me on this specific subject was disengenuous.

Early D1, Alison pushed Fext, then eventually I started pushing LC, and then Mac made a post connecting Fext and LC that I interpreted as Fext scumslipping. I then started pushing Fext, and Mac kinda felt like he wanted to push Fext, but then stopped, and seemed to do a 180 on Fext, but then left the thread. Aside from one more post on D1, Mac did not talk about Fext again. This was a HUGE change for Mac, and it was VERY WEIRD that he kept voting Fext after his 180, and didn't even bother to talk to people about Fext or engage on the subject.

I pushed Alison about this specific instance of Mac's play for hours, and she was not engaging with me in an honest manner. She was not willing to talk about Mac's progression on Fext. She completely ignored the fact that Mac flipped his read on Fext, and refused to acknowledge the timing of events around Mac's progression. I suspected Alison and Mac before this, but THIS is how I became convinced of the team... especially since the whole time Mac was feeling the same.

No way is this all faked. This is like 1000x more "scum theatre" than would ever be necessary between me and Alison, and if her and I were mafia together, the number of other plays we could have gone for that would be better than somehow? me? pushing hard for Mac? one of the best town players in the game?

On the other hand, Mac and Alison were locked into going for me rather than LHF BECAUSE OF ME. BECAUSE OF HOW I WAS GOING FOR THEM. I boxed them in.

If it was Alison/me, we would not be boxed in at EoD2, we could have done anything we wanted.

Alison/Mac were boxed in by me. The number of things they could do at EoD2 were severely limited by how much I pushed them through D2. Them bussing would have been obvious, and they would have had to spew me town in the process.

Mac saying he'd just bus is disengenuous and completely ignores the actual situation.

[MacDougall]

yeh but nah

[MacDougall]

if ur town you caused this by tunneling me anyway ... not sure what else I could have done

[MacDougall]

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

[MacDougall]

There are like 100 arguments for scum!Mac here both involving Alison, and his individual play.

Look at my play, has anyone had an argument for me being scum off my play?

Mac is trying to argue I'm scum off NK's (which is easy for scum!Mac to manipulate).

The only other possible way someone could see me as scum here is because of interactions with Alison, but literally, look at what happened early D2. None of that would be necessary if me/Alison were wolves together. We were highly uncoordinated, I pushed her extremely hard, almost to the point of being rude, that isn't "distancing". Again, I can't fake that level of aggression on someone even if I want to.

It is Mac. I don't know how y'all can ignore all the wolfy crap he has done, or all the agenda he has. He has been obvious since he flipped his "scumread" into a townread on Fext but then didn't follow through because I kept pushing Fext (literally... this play makes no sense for me if I'm mafia. Mac messed up there. Look at how active he was D1 before that exact moment, and then how he just peaced out after for the rest of D1, except when I pressed the thread for content).

see like I try to read your shit but it's all just nonsense... I wasn't active after that point because of my timezone which I've explained several times and you just ignore.

if you're town this L is entirely on you for bad tunneling.

[Seanzie]

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

Then self-vote. I'm okay with this plan and will deal with the consequences tomorrow if I'm wrong about you, but I don't think that happens.

Also, the vast majority of my recent posts aren't to you, they're to the rest of the thread.

Still waiting on you to explain why you think I'm scum... because guess what? You've voiced scumreads on me all game, but haven't actually explained why. I really can't fake this level of aggression on people like you, Fext or Alison. You've seen me wolf before and you can look at all my past wolf games. Unless you think I'm somehow just overshooting my wolf range by 10 miles, I am an easy read here.

This is not really to Mac, but to everyone. I can be found here.

[MacDougall]

if you want me to reply to you and explain things try not posting walls of emotional ballshit every time cuz I just will not respond.

make your points.

[MacDougall]

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

Then self-vote. I'm okay with this plan and will deal with the consequences tomorrow if I'm wrong about you, but I don't think that happens.

Also, the vast majority of my recent posts aren't to you, they're to the rest of the thread.

Still waiting on you to explain why you think I'm scum... because guess what? You've voiced scumreads on me all game, but haven't actually explained why. I really can't fake this level of aggression on people like you, Fext or Alison. You've seen me wolf before and you can look at all my past wolf games. Unless you think I'm somehow just overshooting my wolf range by 10 miles, I am an easy read here.

This is not really to Mac, but to everyone. I can be found here.

I have explained why in more than enough words. There isn't a min word count on a reason to suspect someone.

You look like Alison's teammate. You were both responsible for the d1 miselim and then started day 2 ignoring each other's existence. Your interactions are typified by spotfire flare ups but when push came to shove you both voted where you did (on each other) after all your other avenues were exhausted.

[MacDougall]

I don't consider you to be out of your scumrange. You just often don't bother. I am similar.

[Seanzie]

This is a serious question though. Do you understand why I strongly believe one of you or Fext absolutely has to be the chop today?

Not at all. The point to mafia is to lynch wolves. Not towns.

Okay, thank you. This essentially confirms that you're mafia as well to me. I was a bit worried that maybe Fext had heard that from someone else in scum chat, but nah, you're doubling down on defending him and not willing to acknowledge that his knowledge about you is extremely suspicious (which it REALLY should be extremely suspicious from a town!LC perspective).

It was obvious post game in Molly Maguires that everyone was shocked that I played a strong wolf game. He said he saw it, I believe it.

When Fext flips town then you better be going after Mac, otherwise you're just outing yourself even more.

frankly I'm going to do my damndest to get you lynched before I ever go over

but that's neither here nor there

Lol, *need towncred now!* *bus!*

ehhhhhhhhhhh

fr tho seanzie I saw you pinging me but saw no effort to ask questions or do anything that would help you get in my head

it was a few questions about what games I'd looked at and when with no change in your viewpoint or approach

seems incongruous with your insistence that I talk in realtime because literally none of those questions are things where my answer would change if I had time to think about and plan out an answer

townie words tbh

as I mentioned though I'm not exactly planning to constrain myself to 1v1ing LC

stop town telling when i'm trying to get you mischopped

Mac says he stopped having Fext progression after this because of timezones... but this was only 27 hours into D1.

Mac did have posts after this D1, and technically did mention Fext again with two weak posts, and no explanation... No way Mac does this big of a flip though and doesn't wreck shit... Instead he spent time after this D1...

1. trying to shake a scumread from LC, and

2. trying to pocket Falcon, and

3. Doing a patented scum!Mac openwolf moment:

well Alison is probably town so that's good

Here's where I'm at.

I have strong scumreads on Fext and LC and am confident at least one of them is mafia.

NAA and Creature are both afk slots who don't care much about the game. This is effectively null behavior for them given their playing style/meta, maybe on the scummy end for Creature because it suggests he could be frozen (especially in, say, Fext/Creature scumteam worlds where he loses motivation after seeing his partner dumpstered and just drops a weaksauce townread on him and walks off). I'm effectively treating them as do-nothing lowposters.

I have been in agreement with most of Mac's reads except for his sudden backswing on Fext for reasons I don't grasp/agree with. This concerns me, especially if Fext is scum, because he has been known to scumread his partner the entire day and then suddenly reverse the read citing some bullshit, effectively allowing him to shield his partner while having the thread remember him as attacking them. It's possible this is what he's doing with Fext; I'm not super inclined to pursue that theory today because it is a preflip association and even if it is true we should kill Fext anyway. His posting has been fine but not WIMbot-obvious-town. I don't intend to kill him today because he is Mac and will probably have a better grasp on him after some flips.

I think Seanzie and Falcon have both been very townie and I am completely unconcerned about them.

Wilgy's posting has been good, his jabbing at Fext has been good, and his determination to engage/solve through the sheriff gimmick instead of hiding behind it is townie. I misread him as town recently, so I'm a little cautious, but that was a game I replaced out early so who knows if I would have gotten there. He has done nothing scummy and I like the direction of his pushes - strong townlean.

because

sounds like something I'd say as mafia when trying to sound towny tbh

[MacDougall]

none of that is scummy actually... all very towny

[MacDougall]

also very funny

[MacDougall]

@falcon45ca please look at these posts and tell me if you actually think this is townie content and not a wolf creating a lot of shallow content. You can either read my takes or ignore them, but please look at these.

Spoiler: show

Mac probably town.

You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?

Seanzie didn't like the dead townie townreading me lol

This is a really bad take. Mac super good wolf. LC townreading him there was weird. No way town!Mac interprets this as me not liking a dead townie townreading him?

Mac probably town.

You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?

Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.

[VOTE: LC] aubergine

yeah wtf Seanzie is just mafia how did we get like this

No actual explanation here as to why me voting LC for what looks like TMI points to me being mafia.

Creature/Seanzie bag and tag it

No actual thought here.

Seanzie is town.

Fext isn't.

[VOTE: Fext] aubergine

no thought here.

Mac probably town.

You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?

Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.

This might actually be the scummiest post in the thread.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

Why tho?

asks a shallow question. Mac gives no take on why it wouldn't be or anything. no effort needed for this.

Seanzie is town.

Fext isn't.

[VOTE: Fext] aubergine

You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?

Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.

This might actually be the scummiest post in the thread.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

I agree with Alison on all points.

well this I didn't expect to see?

Doesn't actually give a take here, just points out votes on dead townies. There isn't anything inherently scummy about votes, Mac is not giving thoughts at all.

Holy fuck I'm towntowntowntowntown



Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair

I am not going to lie. I have actually been town clearing you in games for the past six months because you only ever open games when you are town by saying that you are town and when you are mafia you do not. I swear this read is accurate lol. (don't fact check it)

weak read.

can confirm

Your pocket attempt is duly noted, and while I appreciate the effort, it won't work...this time.



You may try again later if you like

like this just reads like empty bs

This is not really a good take. what is empty or BS about this post?

given LC is a leading wagon I do have to ask

in poking around I saw he just won a game as mafia where people were like really shocked by his performance

how much does that factor into all of your guys' perceptions of him in this game

I am voting for him for that reason and that reason alone.

All the things I've said in the thread are merely masking the fact that I am voting for him for that reason and that reason alone.

hmmm

no actual thoughts given here.

I am starting to become confbiased into seanzie/alison worlds so imma gonna stop backreading for a bit

unclear how he got here. He hasn't actually given any thoughts or reasons on me or Alison. Quoting posts and going "hmm" is not thoughts. going is not a thought. Looking at Alison having voted LC and Fext but giving legit no thoughts about it does not constitute progression.

if I had to gth reads rn it'd look something like these two groups, townier one on top

NotAnAxehole
Creature
falcon45ca
Lime Coke

DrWilgy
MacDougall
Seanzie
Alison

although frankly I'm not confident I could put all of those into words I am open to being asked for what elaboration I can provide on a given player

also if I wrote this list again in an hour it could probably look completely different since I really am trying to build reads out of scraps

Fext, I'm obvtown at this point, move me up.

Also LC does not belong there. Neither does NAA.

hmmm

Again, no thoughts. Just "hmmm". This is extremely fake and performative.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

the timing of this vote profiles as a distancing vote designed for future optics

Meh, this is literally the best post out of all of the ones he did in his quick burst, but it's still not really a good take.

He didn't give thoughts. Look at those posts. Look at how shallow they are. It is very very performative. He created a lot of posts with no real content.

Fewer words doesn't mean shallow content, and tbh I feel you're being the performative one atm.


I can see what you're saying tho w/ re: to Mac's read as feeling like a wolf push if you are town.


I'd like Alison/Creature flip before either of you or Mac

probably why falcon died

[Seanzie]

@Creature @NotAnAxehole @DrWilgy

Please look at these posts and think about how Mac likes to openwolf. He loves doing this sort of stuff as wolf.

well Alison is probably town so that's good

Here's where I'm at.

I have strong scumreads on Fext and LC and am confident at least one of them is mafia.

NAA and Creature are both afk slots who don't care much about the game. This is effectively null behavior for them given their playing style/meta, maybe on the scummy end for Creature because it suggests he could be frozen (especially in, say, Fext/Creature scumteam worlds where he loses motivation after seeing his partner dumpstered and just drops a weaksauce townread on him and walks off). I'm effectively treating them as do-nothing lowposters.

I have been in agreement with most of Mac's reads except for his sudden backswing on Fext for reasons I don't grasp/agree with. This concerns me, especially if Fext is scum, because he has been known to scumread his partner the entire day and then suddenly reverse the read citing some bullshit, effectively allowing him to shield his partner while having the thread remember him as attacking them. It's possible this is what he's doing with Fext; I'm not super inclined to pursue that theory today because it is a preflip association and even if it is true we should kill Fext anyway. His posting has been fine but not WIMbot-obvious-town. I don't intend to kill him today because he is Mac and will probably have a better grasp on him after some flips.

I think Seanzie and Falcon have both been very townie and I am completely unconcerned about them.

Wilgy's posting has been good, his jabbing at Fext has been good, and his determination to engage/solve through the sheriff gimmick instead of hiding behind it is townie. I misread him as town recently, so I'm a little cautious, but that was a game I replaced out early so who knows if I would have gotten there. He has done nothing scummy and I like the direction of his pushes - strong townlean.

because

sounds like something I'd say as mafia when trying to sound towny tbh

[Seanzie]

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

Then self-vote. I'm okay with this plan and will deal with the consequences tomorrow if I'm wrong about you, but I don't think that happens.

Also, the vast majority of my recent posts aren't to you, they're to the rest of the thread.

Still waiting on you to explain why you think I'm scum... because guess what? You've voiced scumreads on me all game, but haven't actually explained why. I really can't fake this level of aggression on people like you, Fext or Alison. You've seen me wolf before and you can look at all my past wolf games. Unless you think I'm somehow just overshooting my wolf range by 10 miles, I am an easy read here.

This is not really to Mac, but to everyone. I can be found here.

I have explained why in more than enough words. There isn't a min word count on a reason to suspect someone.

You look like Alison's teammate. You were both responsible for the d1 miselim and then started day 2 ignoring each other's existence. Your interactions are typified by spotfire flare ups but when push came to shove you both voted where you did (on each other) after all your other avenues were exhausted.

Mac is ignoring the fact that this requires me and Alison to have 1. hard commited to bussing way early D2 with potential miselims like Creature floating around and 2. been able to do scum theatre well beyond the best scum theatre I've ever seen by lightyears. Please everyone go look at how me and Alison interacted early D2. This is sooooo unnecessary if we're scum together. Zero reason for it.

This is just not how wolves play. If Mac believed that we were doing this, this read would be something like "even though it's weird that they would both double-down on a town newbie, they could have" or something, but no. This is not typical wolf teammate behavior. Mac knows this, but needs to make a case out of nothing.

this is literally categorically false. I entered D2 pushing Mac more because I have an easier time reading Mac, but right as soon as Alison entered the thread, I immediately started engaging with her, and quickly became convinced she was wolf, and spent hours trying to convince everyone through showing that her arguments were in bad faith.

Again this is categorically false. Aside from a few jabs early on D1 to get a sense of where Alison's head was at, I more-or-less ignored her until D2 I engaged with her for hours, and didn't stop until she flipped. Granted, I did engage with Mac more than Alison D2, but not much more and only because I suspected both of them, strongly suspected them as a team, and everyone else was already pretty much there on Alison.

I am legit the reason Alison couldn't have tried to go somewhere else. I was NOT AT ALL in contention D2, and only through you and Alison pushing me was I ever an option at EoD. If Alison and I were wolves together, this is so unnecessary and we literally shot ourselves in the foot. IIIIIIIIIII made Alison commit to a hardstance on me to lock her in IIIIII did that. Town!Sean did that. I am proud of my play this game, and I'm not going to let scum!Mac take this away from me. Please everyone find me. I am findable. I know I am findable. I am way out of my wolf range and I refuse to lose. Me/Alison do not actually make sense. IIIII cornered Alison. I did that.

[NotAnAxehole]

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

Then self-vote. I'm okay with this plan and will deal with the consequences tomorrow if I'm wrong about you, but I don't think that happens.

Also, the vast majority of my recent posts aren't to you, they're to the rest of the thread.

Still waiting on you to explain why you think I'm scum... because guess what? You've voiced scumreads on me all game, but haven't actually explained why. I really can't fake this level of aggression on people like you, Fext or Alison. You've seen me wolf before and you can look at all my past wolf games. Unless you think I'm somehow just overshooting my wolf range by 10 miles, I am an easy read here.

This is not really to Mac, but to everyone. I can be found here.

I have explained why in more than enough words. There isn't a min word count on a reason to suspect someone.

You look like Alison's teammate. You were both responsible for the d1 miselim and then started day 2 ignoring each other's existence. Your interactions are typified by spotfire flare ups but when push came to shove you both voted where you did (on each other) after all your other avenues were exhausted.

Mac is ignoring the fact that this requires me and Alison to have 1. hard commited to bussing way early D2 with potential miselims like Creature floating around and 2. been able to do scum theatre well beyond the best scum theatre I've ever seen by lightyears. Please everyone go look at how me and Alison interacted early D2. This is sooooo unnecessary if we're scum together. Zero reason for it.

This is just not how wolves play. If Mac believed that we were doing this, this read would be something like "even though it's weird that they would both double-down on a town newbie, they could have" or something, but no. This is not typical wolf teammate behavior. Mac knows this, but needs to make a case out of nothing.

this is literally categorically false. I entered D2 pushing Mac more because I have an easier time reading Mac, but right as soon as Alison entered the thread, I immediately started engaging with her, and quickly became convinced she was wolf, and spent hours trying to convince everyone through showing that her arguments were in bad faith.

Again this is categorically false. Aside from a few jabs early on D1 to get a sense of where Alison's head was at, I more-or-less ignored her until D2 I engaged with her for hours, and didn't stop until she flipped. Granted, I did engage with Mac more than Alison D2, but not much more and only because I suspected both of them, strongly suspected them as a team, and everyone else was already pretty much there on Alison.

I am legit the reason Alison couldn't have tried to go somewhere else. I was NOT AT ALL in contention D2, and only through you and Alison pushing me was I ever an option at EoD. If Alison and I were wolves together, this is so unnecessary and we literally shot ourselves in the foot. IIIIIIIIIII made Alison commit to a hardstance on me to lock her in IIIIII did that. Town!Sean did that. I am proud of my play this game, and I'm not going to let scum!Mac take this away from me. Please everyone find me. I am findable. I know I am findable. I am way out of my wolf range and I refuse to lose. Me/Alison do not actually make sense. IIIII cornered Alison. I did that.

I am not reading this Skittles.

[MacDougall]

thats all well and good sir but I am town

[Seanzie]

thats all well and good sir but I am town

Then find mafia.

[Seanzie]

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

Then self-vote. I'm okay with this plan and will deal with the consequences tomorrow if I'm wrong about you, but I don't think that happens.

Also, the vast majority of my recent posts aren't to you, they're to the rest of the thread.

Still waiting on you to explain why you think I'm scum... because guess what? You've voiced scumreads on me all game, but haven't actually explained why. I really can't fake this level of aggression on people like you, Fext or Alison. You've seen me wolf before and you can look at all my past wolf games. Unless you think I'm somehow just overshooting my wolf range by 10 miles, I am an easy read here.

This is not really to Mac, but to everyone. I can be found here.

I have explained why in more than enough words. There isn't a min word count on a reason to suspect someone.

You look like Alison's teammate. You were both responsible for the d1 miselim and then started day 2 ignoring each other's existence. Your interactions are typified by spotfire flare ups but when push came to shove you both voted where you did (on each other) after all your other avenues were exhausted.

Mac is ignoring the fact that this requires me and Alison to have 1. hard commited to bussing way early D2 with potential miselims like Creature floating around and 2. been able to do scum theatre well beyond the best scum theatre I've ever seen by lightyears. Please everyone go look at how me and Alison interacted early D2. This is sooooo unnecessary if we're scum together. Zero reason for it.

This is just not how wolves play. If Mac believed that we were doing this, this read would be something like "even though it's weird that they would both double-down on a town newbie, they could have" or something, but no. This is not typical wolf teammate behavior. Mac knows this, but needs to make a case out of nothing.

this is literally categorically false. I entered D2 pushing Mac more because I have an easier time reading Mac, but right as soon as Alison entered the thread, I immediately started engaging with her, and quickly became convinced she was wolf, and spent hours trying to convince everyone through showing that her arguments were in bad faith.

Again this is categorically false. Aside from a few jabs early on D1 to get a sense of where Alison's head was at, I more-or-less ignored her until D2 I engaged with her for hours, and didn't stop until she flipped. Granted, I did engage with Mac more than Alison D2, but not much more and only because I suspected both of them, strongly suspected them as a team, and everyone else was already pretty much there on Alison.

I am legit the reason Alison couldn't have tried to go somewhere else. I was NOT AT ALL in contention D2, and only through you and Alison pushing me was I ever an option at EoD. If Alison and I were wolves together, this is so unnecessary and we literally shot ourselves in the foot. IIIIIIIIIII made Alison commit to a hardstance on me to lock her in IIIIII did that. Town!Sean did that. I am proud of my play this game, and I'm not going to let scum!Mac take this away from me. Please everyone find me. I am findable. I know I am findable. I am way out of my wolf range and I refuse to lose. Me/Alison do not actually make sense. IIIII cornered Alison. I did that.

I am not reading this Skittles.

Please try to.

[NotAnAxehole]

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

Then self-vote. I'm okay with this plan and will deal with the consequences tomorrow if I'm wrong about you, but I don't think that happens.

Also, the vast majority of my recent posts aren't to you, they're to the rest of the thread.

Still waiting on you to explain why you think I'm scum... because guess what? You've voiced scumreads on me all game, but haven't actually explained why. I really can't fake this level of aggression on people like you, Fext or Alison. You've seen me wolf before and you can look at all my past wolf games. Unless you think I'm somehow just overshooting my wolf range by 10 miles, I am an easy read here.

This is not really to Mac, but to everyone. I can be found here.

I have explained why in more than enough words. There isn't a min word count on a reason to suspect someone.

You look like Alison's teammate. You were both responsible for the d1 miselim and then started day 2 ignoring each other's existence. Your interactions are typified by spotfire flare ups but when push came to shove you both voted where you did (on each other) after all your other avenues were exhausted.

Mac is ignoring the fact that this requires me and Alison to have 1. hard commited to bussing way early D2 with potential miselims like Creature floating around and 2. been able to do scum theatre well beyond the best scum theatre I've ever seen by lightyears. Please everyone go look at how me and Alison interacted early D2. This is sooooo unnecessary if we're scum together. Zero reason for it.

This is just not how wolves play. If Mac believed that we were doing this, this read would be something like "even though it's weird that they would both double-down on a town newbie, they could have" or something, but no. This is not typical wolf teammate behavior. Mac knows this, but needs to make a case out of nothing.

this is literally categorically false. I entered D2 pushing Mac more because I have an easier time reading Mac, but right as soon as Alison entered the thread, I immediately started engaging with her, and quickly became convinced she was wolf, and spent hours trying to convince everyone through showing that her arguments were in bad faith.

Again this is categorically false. Aside from a few jabs early on D1 to get a sense of where Alison's head was at, I more-or-less ignored her until D2 I engaged with her for hours, and didn't stop until she flipped. Granted, I did engage with Mac more than Alison D2, but not much more and only because I suspected both of them, strongly suspected them as a team, and everyone else was already pretty much there on Alison.

I am legit the reason Alison couldn't have tried to go somewhere else. I was NOT AT ALL in contention D2, and only through you and Alison pushing me was I ever an option at EoD. If Alison and I were wolves together, this is so unnecessary and we literally shot ourselves in the foot. IIIIIIIIIII made Alison commit to a hardstance on me to lock her in IIIIII did that. Town!Sean did that. I am proud of my play this game, and I'm not going to let scum!Mac take this away from me. Please everyone find me. I am findable. I know I am findable. I am way out of my wolf range and I refuse to lose. Me/Alison do not actually make sense. IIIII cornered Alison. I did that.

I am not reading this Skittles.

Please try to.

Reading white on gray is already bad enough, I don't need the rainbow.

[MacDougall]

thats all well and good sir but I am town

Then find mafia.

If its not you it's wilgy.

[NotAnAxehole]

Speaking of which, is there any reason this site doesn't have a usable light theme with traditional black text on a white background?

[Seanzie]

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

Then self-vote. I'm okay with this plan and will deal with the consequences tomorrow if I'm wrong about you, but I don't think that happens.

Also, the vast majority of my recent posts aren't to you, they're to the rest of the thread.

Still waiting on you to explain why you think I'm scum... because guess what? You've voiced scumreads on me all game, but haven't actually explained why. I really can't fake this level of aggression on people like you, Fext or Alison. You've seen me wolf before and you can look at all my past wolf games. Unless you think I'm somehow just overshooting my wolf range by 10 miles, I am an easy read here.

This is not really to Mac, but to everyone. I can be found here.

I have explained why in more than enough words. There isn't a min word count on a reason to suspect someone.

You look like Alison's teammate. You were both responsible for the d1 miselim and then started day 2 ignoring each other's existence. Your interactions are typified by spotfire flare ups but when push came to shove you both voted where you did (on each other) after all your other avenues were exhausted.

RESPONSE TO RED: Mac is ignoring the fact that this requires me and Alison to have 1. hard commited to bussing way early D2 with potential miselims like Creature floating around and 2. been able to do scum theatre well beyond the best scum theatre I've ever seen by lightyears. Please everyone go look at how me and Alison interacted early D2. This is sooooo unnecessary if we're scum together. Zero reason for it.

RESPONSE TO YELLOW: This is just not how wolves play. If Mac believed that we were doing this, this read would be something like "even though it's weird that they would both double-down on a town newbie, they could have" or something, but no. This is not typical wolf teammate behavior. Mac knows this, but needs to make a case out of nothing.

RESPONSE TO GREEN: this is literally categorically false. I entered D2 pushing Mac more because I have an easier time reading Mac, but right as soon as Alison entered the thread, I immediately started engaging with her, and quickly became convinced she was wolf, and spent hours trying to convince everyone through showing that her arguments were in bad faith.

RESPONSE TO PURPLE: Again this is categorically false. Aside from a few jabs early on D1 to get a sense of where Alison's head was at, I more-or-less ignored her until D2 I engaged with her for hours, and didn't stop until she flipped. Granted, I did engage with Mac more than Alison D2, but not much more and only because I suspected both of them, strongly suspected them as a team, and everyone else was already pretty much there on Alison.

RESPONSE TO ORANGE: I am legit the reason Alison couldn't have tried to go somewhere else. I was NOT AT ALL in contention D2, and only through you and Alison pushing me was I ever an option at EoD. If Alison and I were wolves together, this is so unnecessary and we literally shot ourselves in the foot. IIIIIIIIIII made Alison commit to a hardstance on me to lock her in IIIIII did that. Town!Sean did that. I am proud of my play this game, and I'm not going to let scum!Mac take this away from me. Please everyone find me. I am findable. I know I am findable. I am way out of my wolf range and I refuse to lose. Me/Alison do not actually make sense. IIIII cornered Alison. I did that.

I am not reading this Skittles.

Please try to.

Reading white on gray is already bad enough, I don't need the rainbow.

I can delete the color if it helps you. Here.