Hotdog Fingers Mafia [Game over, Mafia won]

[MacDougall]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

[nutella]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

Yeah this. Get with the times boomer

[MacDougall]

you're gonna look pretty bad when she flips mafia

It's not "you're their partner" or anything like that, Mac just wants to point out that I'll look bad.

Mac knows my alignment. Based on this, I'd guess he's bussing, but honestly it could be either way.

Regardless, Mac does not have a good SVS case and the fact that Mac is doing this stonewall on me when I'm trying to work with him, it's no bueno.

down u cute nonsense boy this is a game of fluffs and cuddles

[Seanzie]

and the part where mac started leading and stuff?

like wtf dude where have you been

you and mac are probably both town just be chill

Look at Mac's SVS record. Does that look like Mac trying to sort someone, or does that look like Mac trying to flip someone? Keep in mind that again this is independent of SVS's alignment, ask yourself how MAC actually looks.

[Seanzie]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

I was there, you're overstating what happened, and regardless you've been pushing scum!SVS since early today without reason, but now you only want to talk about what happened very recently.

[MacDougall]

I'm not trying to stonewall u I just don't know how to handle u when you push me ever and nothing I do has ever stopped u from doing so once you get on a tangent so I cbf with it

[Seanzie]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

I was there, you're overstating what happened, and regardless you've been pushing scum!SVS since early today without reason, but now you only want to talk about what happened very recently.

Also worth noting that Mac said nothing of SVS yesterday, but then came in today apparently convinced enough on wolf!SVS that he spent numerous posts saying it without explanation.

[MacDougall]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

I was there, you're overstating what happened, and regardless you've been pushing scum!SVS since early today without reason, but now you only want to talk about what happened very recently.

yeh I pushed svs for nonsense meh reasons and now I'm pushing her for less nonsense reasons


and if this is overstating ... like bruh I really just don't care enough to engage with u... vote me and do whatever... convince the town to vote me out seanzie lol. I really cbf with u at the best of times and right now I have less energy than usual.

[Seanzie]

I'm not trying to stonewall u I just don't know how to handle u when you push me ever and nothing I do has ever stopped u from doing so once you get on a tangent so I cbf with it

What is your case on SVS? Why have you been pushing them for the entireity of D2? What was it that made you come in early D2 pushing them?

[MacDougall]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

I was there, you're overstating what happened, and regardless you've been pushing scum!SVS since early today without reason, but now you only want to talk about what happened very recently.

Also worth noting that Mac said nothing of SVS yesterday, but then came in today apparently convinced enough on wolf!SVS that he spent numerous posts saying it without explanation.

this is accurate and yet I'm town lol.

maybe u need to find better things to hinge reads on

[MacDougall]

I'm not trying to stonewall u I just don't know how to handle u when you push me ever and nothing I do has ever stopped u from doing so once you get on a tangent so I cbf with it

What is your case on SVS? Why have you been pushing them for the entireity of D2? What was it that made you come in early D2 pushing them?

my case on svs is heh lol roflcopter.

I push them because I have good instincts and I trust myself.

I came in pushing her cuz lol her posts bad

[nutella]

and the part where mac started leading and stuff?

like wtf dude where have you been

you and mac are probably both town just be chill

Look at Mac's SVS record. Does that look like Mac trying to sort someone, or does that look like Mac trying to flip someone? Keep in mind that again this is independent of SVS's alignment, ask yourself how MAC actually looks.

Mac quite literally did his signature town move of snapping out of his silly goofing because he could not stop himself from going into solvey mode once he established a few town reads to work with. He got excited about me becoming towny and wolves becoming wolfy. I know because I was there and felt the exact same excitement. We entered the drift.

How about you at least work with the two of us for today and flip SVS, and if after that you still want to question mac knock yourself out but I'm pretty sure he and I are rocketing toward supatownland

[Seanzie]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

Yeah this. Get with the times boomer

Would you mind at least looking at the spoilered post I made showing everything Mac has said about SVS? They just keep saying they scumread them without an explanation.

Mac's vibe this game is way off, and I think they deserve much more scrutiny than they're currently getting. Idk if they're bussing SVS or if they're just pushing them, but their case on SVS is non-existent, while simultanously not being willing to engage me on the subject unless I tell them specifically what in their case I'm bothered by (the fact that it is non-existent, clearly).

[MacDougall]

and the part where mac started leading and stuff?

like wtf dude where have you been

you and mac are probably both town just be chill

Look at Mac's SVS record. Does that look like Mac trying to sort someone, or does that look like Mac trying to flip someone? Keep in mind that again this is independent of SVS's alignment, ask yourself how MAC actually looks.

I'm so desperate for getting svs out of this game cuz svs will single handedly win it for town... you are saving the town by exposing me red handed.

[nutella]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

I was there, you're overstating what happened, and regardless you've been pushing scum!SVS since early today without reason, but now you only want to talk about what happened very recently.

Also worth noting that Mac said nothing of SVS yesterday, but then came in today apparently convinced enough on wolf!SVS that he spent numerous posts saying it without explanation.

Because she became exponentially more wolfy this afternoon??? Thats how reads developing works??

[nutella]

I'm not trying to stonewall u I just don't know how to handle u when you push me ever and nothing I do has ever stopped u from doing so once you get on a tangent so I cbf with it

What is your case on SVS? Why have you been pushing them for the entireity of D2? What was it that made you come in early D2 pushing them?

my case on svs is heh lol roflcopter.

I push them because I have good instincts and I trust myself.

I came in pushing her cuz lol her posts bad

Dude ilysm lol

[Seanzie]

and the part where mac started leading and stuff?

like wtf dude where have you been

you and mac are probably both town just be chill

Look at Mac's SVS record. Does that look like Mac trying to sort someone, or does that look like Mac trying to flip someone? Keep in mind that again this is independent of SVS's alignment, ask yourself how MAC actually looks.

Mac quite literally did his signature town move of snapping out of his silly goofing because he could not stop himself from going into solvey mode once he established a few town reads to work with. He got excited about me becoming towny and wolves becoming wolfy. I know because I was there and felt the exact same excitement. We entered the drift.

How about you at least work with the two of us for today and flip SVS, and if after that you still want to question mac knock yourself out but I'm pretty sure he and I are rocketing toward supatownland

Nutella, I literally asked Mac why his read was what it was on SVS, and he refused to elaborate, and that is exactly why I looked into his ISO and found that he has said NOTHING about SVS.

I am LITERALLY trying my darndest to work with Mac on SVS, and I will happily work with you on SVS, but right now, I am not the roadblock to me/Mac working together on SVS, Mac is. I'm just pointing out the problem.

[Seanzie]

let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

I was there, you're overstating what happened, and regardless you've been pushing scum!SVS since early today without reason, but now you only want to talk about what happened very recently.

Also worth noting that Mac said nothing of SVS yesterday, but then came in today apparently convinced enough on wolf!SVS that he spent numerous posts saying it without explanation.

Because she became exponentially more wolfy this afternoon??? Thats how reads developing works??

Mac's been pushing her since SoD2 though, Mac's read on her didn't actually evolve. Look at his posts Re:her. Have you done that? I put them all into a spoiler if you want a quick TLDR. Should I quote it?

[nutella]

and the part where mac started leading and stuff?

like wtf dude where have you been

you and mac are probably both town just be chill

Look at Mac's SVS record. Does that look like Mac trying to sort someone, or does that look like Mac trying to flip someone? Keep in mind that again this is independent of SVS's alignment, ask yourself how MAC actually looks.

Mac quite literally did his signature town move of snapping out of his silly goofing because he could not stop himself from going into solvey mode once he established a few town reads to work with. He got excited about me becoming towny and wolves becoming wolfy. I know because I was there and felt the exact same excitement. We entered the drift.

How about you at least work with the two of us for today and flip SVS, and if after that you still want to question mac knock yourself out but I'm pretty sure he and I are rocketing toward supatownland

Nutella, I literally asked Mac why his read was what it was on SVS, and he refused to elaborate, and that is exactly why I looked into his ISO and found that he has said NOTHING about SVS.

I am LITERALLY trying my darndest to work with Mac on SVS, and I will happily work with you on SVS, but right now, I am not the roadblock to me/Mac working together on SVS, Mac is. I'm just pointing out the problem.

If she's a hit why do you care how mac got there before the rest of us? Sometimes instincts are just good but if you see other people's reasons as valid anyway just roll with it and if you think it might have been a bus then investigate that after we get a wolf flip

[Seanzie]

and the part where mac started leading and stuff?

like wtf dude where have you been

you and mac are probably both town just be chill

Look at Mac's SVS record. Does that look like Mac trying to sort someone, or does that look like Mac trying to flip someone? Keep in mind that again this is independent of SVS's alignment, ask yourself how MAC actually looks.

Mac quite literally did his signature town move of snapping out of his silly goofing because he could not stop himself from going into solvey mode once he established a few town reads to work with. He got excited about me becoming towny and wolves becoming wolfy. I know because I was there and felt the exact same excitement. We entered the drift.

How about you at least work with the two of us for today and flip SVS, and if after that you still want to question mac knock yourself out but I'm pretty sure he and I are rocketing toward supatownland

Nutella, I literally asked Mac why his read was what it was on SVS, and he refused to elaborate, and that is exactly why I looked into his ISO and found that he has said NOTHING about SVS.

I am LITERALLY trying my darndest to work with Mac on SVS, and I will happily work with you on SVS, but right now, I am not the roadblock to me/Mac working together on SVS, Mac is. I'm just pointing out the problem.

(when I say he said "nothing" I mean all he's done is state a scumread, almost always without reason, and the few reasons I've found were extremely weak and lacklustre. Dude isn't pushing in good faith. Regardless of if he is bussing or just pushing, it is NOT in good faith)

[nutella]

Not stating reasons that are up to your standards != not in good faith

[Seanzie]

and the part where mac started leading and stuff?

like wtf dude where have you been

you and mac are probably both town just be chill

Look at Mac's SVS record. Does that look like Mac trying to sort someone, or does that look like Mac trying to flip someone? Keep in mind that again this is independent of SVS's alignment, ask yourself how MAC actually looks.

Mac quite literally did his signature town move of snapping out of his silly goofing because he could not stop himself from going into solvey mode once he established a few town reads to work with. He got excited about me becoming towny and wolves becoming wolfy. I know because I was there and felt the exact same excitement. We entered the drift.

How about you at least work with the two of us for today and flip SVS, and if after that you still want to question mac knock yourself out but I'm pretty sure he and I are rocketing toward supatownland

Nutella, I literally asked Mac why his read was what it was on SVS, and he refused to elaborate, and that is exactly why I looked into his ISO and found that he has said NOTHING about SVS.

I am LITERALLY trying my darndest to work with Mac on SVS, and I will happily work with you on SVS, but right now, I am not the roadblock to me/Mac working together on SVS, Mac is. I'm just pointing out the problem.

If she's a hit why do you care how mac got there before the rest of us? Sometimes instincts are just good but if you see other people's reasons as valid anyway just roll with it and if you think it might have been a bus then investigate that after we get a wolf flip

I don't have a strong opinion on SVS either way. I will look into them, but Mac is a much bigger threat and their push is not genuine. That is my point.

Should I be forced to only talk of SVS, and not voice my scumread on Mac here? Mac is acting wolfy, he has been all game, I now have a concrete lead to back up that feeling.

[MacDougall]

but seanzie

if I saw your posts here and was like uh oh I better go and retrofit my mindset on svs to make it more palatable for seanzie

then I would be mafia lol.

u are getting unfiltered glorious mac right now. bask in it.

here's a sanity check.

can the below be true.

Mac gut read svs wolf immediately.
Mac is too lazy to really elaborate.
Mac doesn't need to because SVS got wolfy enough for her posts to convince others she is wolfy who are now doing the heavy lifting.
Mac is tired and finds seanzie overbearing and knows seanzie won't be appeased by anything Mac says so he's instead just doing farts.

lemme give you a hot tip

the above is reality. join us in it.

[nutella]

Like sometimes an intuitive read is just that and is hard to explain in any detail beyond "posts bad" and that doesn't make it bad faith it just makes it hard to articulate. This happens to me like EVERY game, I have trouble articulating reads all the time. Like how I caught you in GOC was essentially "posts bad, trust"

[Seanzie]

Not stating reasons that are up to your standards != not in good faith

Okay, I am getting frustrated. Mac's reasons are not up to basic standards, not just "my standards".

Please quote Mac's reasons for his SVS push. I am trying to speak to you, but I cannot tell if you aren't listening or actually disagree. I want to make sure you've actually looked at Mac's ISO and looked through their SVS posts, because right now I kind of think maybe you haven't and are instead choosing to let you current feelings of Mac tell you to defend him. Look through his ISO, ctrl+f SVS, quote the reasons for his SVS read, which should hold up to BASIC standards, let alone my standards.

Please do me this favor.

[MacDougall]

notwithstanding being brutally honest about it is about the towniest shit ever... wolves try to apply reasoning where there isn't any. I'm literally so townie I've ascended.

[Seanzie]

Like sometimes an intuitive read is just that and is hard to explain in any detail beyond "posts bad" and that doesn't make it bad faith it just makes it hard to articulate. This happens to me like EVERY game, I have trouble articulating reads all the time. Like how I caught you in GOC was essentially "posts bad, trust"

Okay, but you aren't Mac. Do you feel like Mac's hardpushes go the same way your pushes do?

[nutella]

Two interdimensional vibegod shamans versus one mathematics professor

[Seanzie]

notwithstanding being brutally honest about it is about the towniest shit ever... wolves try to apply reasoning where there isn't any. I'm literally so townie I've ascended.

@nutella he is actively trying to pocket you with posts like this.

[nutella]

Not stating reasons that are up to your standards != not in good faith

Okay, I am getting frustrated. Mac's reasons are not up to basic standards, not just "my standards".

Please quote Mac's reasons for his SVS push. I am trying to speak to you, but I cannot tell if you aren't listening or actually disagree. I want to make sure you've actually looked at Mac's ISO and looked through their SVS posts, because right now I kind of think maybe you haven't and are instead choosing to let you current feelings of Mac tell you to defend him. Look through his ISO, ctrl+f SVS, quote the reasons for his SVS read, which should hold up to BASIC standards, let alone my standards.

Please do me this favor.

I'm done being told I haven't read. I have read. You are talking past my entire response here which is that vibe reads are FUCKING FINE.

[Seanzie]

Whatever, I'm done. bad threadstate. I ask basic work and you ignore me.

[MacDougall]

seanzie I'm so stoned right now i can barely function is that what you need to know?

[Seanzie]

Not stating reasons that are up to your standards != not in good faith

Okay, I am getting frustrated. Mac's reasons are not up to basic standards, not just "my standards".

Please quote Mac's reasons for his SVS push. I am trying to speak to you, but I cannot tell if you aren't listening or actually disagree. I want to make sure you've actually looked at Mac's ISO and looked through their SVS posts, because right now I kind of think maybe you haven't and are instead choosing to let you current feelings of Mac tell you to defend him. Look through his ISO, ctrl+f SVS, quote the reasons for his SVS read, which should hold up to BASIC standards, let alone my standards.

Please do me this favor.

I'm done being told I haven't read. I have read. You are talking past my entire response here which is that vibe reads are FUCKING FINE.

Quote the posts then. What reasons? WHAT REASONS?

what reasons? I don't see them. I just want to see them. I don't.

[nutella]

notwithstanding being brutally honest about it is about the towniest shit ever... wolves try to apply reasoning where there isn't any. I'm literally so townie I've ascended.

@nutella he is actively trying to pocket you with posts like this.

I mean maybe. That's probably a post he could make as wolf. I'm not interested in shifting much focus there at the moment.

[MacDougall]

awoo

[nutella]

I am telling you that it's going to be okay that there are no bananas in the freezer and you keep going "BUT WHERE ARE THE BANANAS I NEEEEED THEM" and I'm like we have ice cream right there buddy maybe it'll make you feel better.

[MacDougall]

seanzie fell into my trap and outed himself as naked town

[Seanzie]

Not stating reasons that are up to your standards != not in good faith

Okay, I am getting frustrated. Mac's reasons are not up to basic standards, not just "my standards".

Please quote Mac's reasons for his SVS push. I am trying to speak to you, but I cannot tell if you aren't listening or actually disagree. I want to make sure you've actually looked at Mac's ISO and looked through their SVS posts, because right now I kind of think maybe you haven't and are instead choosing to let you current feelings of Mac tell you to defend him. Look through his ISO, ctrl+f SVS, quote the reasons for his SVS read, which should hold up to BASIC standards, let alone my standards.

Please do me this favor.

I'm done being told I haven't read. I have read. You are talking past my entire response here which is that vibe reads are FUCKING FINE.

Quote the posts then. What reasons? WHAT REASONS?

what reasons? I don't see them. I just want to see them. I don't.

Sorry, I am frustrated and did indeed read past this post. I politely disagree that at this stage in the venture vibe reads from Mac are okay.

Vibe reads are too easy for wolves to hide behind. And if Mac only vibe-read SVS, they could have just said so when I pushed them on it. Instead they told me to tell them what i disagree with.

Ergo, Mac would only TELL ME TO SAY WHAT I DISAGREED WITH if Mac was trying to put up the pretense that Mac actually had reasons. Mac isn't claiming vibe reads here, Mac is claiming reasons, but their ISO doesn't back it up.

[nutella]

Yeah this is silly can we get the wolves back in here to out themselves more

[MacDougall]

what have svs and Kate provided besides vibe reads?

[Seanzie]

I am telling you that it's going to be okay that there are no bananas in the freezer and you keep going "BUT WHERE ARE THE BANANAS I NEEEEED THEM" and I'm like we have ice cream right there buddy maybe it'll make you feel better.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't belittle the fact that I want people to actually explain their takes. I don't think my take here is an unreasonable one, and it is good town-play to push people for reasons. I want Mac to give AI content, and I don't know why I need to fight you about this.

[MacDougall]

ngl I thought I had reasons

[Seanzie]

what have svs and Kate provided besides vibe reads?

Explain your SVS take.

Why did you ask me what I disagreed with re:SVS if your take is vibe-based?

[MacDougall]

ngl I thought I had reasons

[Seanzie]

ngl I thought I had reasons

You're lucky Nutella happened to be the person around for this.

[nutella]

Not stating reasons that are up to your standards != not in good faith

Okay, I am getting frustrated. Mac's reasons are not up to basic standards, not just "my standards".

Please quote Mac's reasons for his SVS push. I am trying to speak to you, but I cannot tell if you aren't listening or actually disagree. I want to make sure you've actually looked at Mac's ISO and looked through their SVS posts, because right now I kind of think maybe you haven't and are instead choosing to let you current feelings of Mac tell you to defend him. Look through his ISO, ctrl+f SVS, quote the reasons for his SVS read, which should hold up to BASIC standards, let alone my standards.

Please do me this favor.

I'm done being told I haven't read. I have read. You are talking past my entire response here which is that vibe reads are FUCKING FINE.

Quote the posts then. What reasons? WHAT REASONS?

what reasons? I don't see them. I just want to see them. I don't.

Sorry, I am frustrated and did indeed read past this post. I politely disagree that at this stage in the venture vibe reads from Mac are okay.

Vibe reads are too easy for wolves to hide behind. And if Mac only vibe-read SVS, they could have just said so when I pushed them on it. Instead they told me to tell them what i disagree with.

Ergo, Mac would only TELL ME TO SAY WHAT I DISAGREED WITH if Mac was trying to put up the pretense that Mac actually had reasons. Mac isn't claiming vibe reads here, Mac is claiming reasons, but their ISO doesn't back it up.

He probably assumed it was more clear in his iso that he also jived with the reasons Wind and I had for suspecting SVS later. I do stuff like this all the time too, it's a classic townie retrospective memory/mindset assumption or something. Idk I'm probably not explaining it well but I think it is far more likely to come from a town who is sloppy yet confident than a wolf who is faking a progression.

[nutella]

ngl I thought I had reasons

Yeah this is what i was just trying to explain with some psychology mumbo jumbo lol

[Seanzie]

Not stating reasons that are up to your standards != not in good faith

Okay, I am getting frustrated. Mac's reasons are not up to basic standards, not just "my standards".

Please quote Mac's reasons for his SVS push. I am trying to speak to you, but I cannot tell if you aren't listening or actually disagree. I want to make sure you've actually looked at Mac's ISO and looked through their SVS posts, because right now I kind of think maybe you haven't and are instead choosing to let you current feelings of Mac tell you to defend him. Look through his ISO, ctrl+f SVS, quote the reasons for his SVS read, which should hold up to BASIC standards, let alone my standards.

Please do me this favor.

I'm done being told I haven't read. I have read. You are talking past my entire response here which is that vibe reads are FUCKING FINE.

Quote the posts then. What reasons? WHAT REASONS?

what reasons? I don't see them. I just want to see them. I don't.

Sorry, I am frustrated and did indeed read past this post. I politely disagree that at this stage in the venture vibe reads from Mac are okay.

Vibe reads are too easy for wolves to hide behind. And if Mac only vibe-read SVS, they could have just said so when I pushed them on it. Instead they told me to tell them what i disagree with.

Ergo, Mac would only TELL ME TO SAY WHAT I DISAGREED WITH if Mac was trying to put up the pretense that Mac actually had reasons. Mac isn't claiming vibe reads here, Mac is claiming reasons, but their ISO doesn't back it up.

He probably assumed it was more clear in his iso that he also jived with the reasons Wind and I had for suspecting SVS later. I do stuff like this all the time too, it's a classic townie retrospective memory/mindset assumption or something. Idk I'm probably not explaining it well but I think it is far more likely to come from a town who is sloppy yet confident than a wolf who is faking a progression.

I'm stepping away. I can't really do anything when the atmosphere created in the thread is counter-productive to getting people to actually explain things.

[MacDougall]

step 1

mac sussed svs cuz feels bad

step 2

brain bees

step 3

nutella got townie

step 4

nutella getting townie made me do a reeval

step 5

reeval felt good

step 6

mac pushed Kate and svs coincidentally at same time as nutella and co

step 7

svs and Kate got super wolfy in a partnery way and are both repping reads on each other that are super partnery and Kate also has a lot of tmi in her reads and no really dope reads like she usually has and I think both would scumread the other if they were town... svs also didn't answer a very basic question I asked of her.

step 8

all that stuff happened and I kind of thought i had articulated it well enough to just ask u to backread but guess not

step 9

seanzie proceeds to whip out his lil townie and wack me with it while I sit here contemplating whether to use door dash or uber eats

step 10

Town stomp? you decide.

[Seanzie]

If y'alls wolves, good job. I'm done.