Team Fortress Mafia [END]

[Dolby]

like, if airblast can redirect TSP's shot I'll just shut up about this

but if it can't I'm feeling like I'd rather sabie be shot then yeeted

[Gavial]

(Marmot//Nanook/Lime Coke) - this is weird though because the only way Lime Coke is mafia is with Jack.
I suppose Nanook could be wolf as well, I’m not sure if he voted Sean or not I don’t remember.

[LinearPoint]

Frankly I don't see TSP Sabie.
TSP saying they were vigging Sabie and Sabie being Mafia doesn't seem right for a Mafia team.
I suppose there is a world where Mafia Sniper aims at Mafia Sabie and Mafia Pyro reflects the kill to a random.

[LinearPoint]

But that's like too galaxy brain play for me to realistically expect from a Mafia team.

[Gavial]

Frankly I don't see TSP Sabie.
TSP saying they were vigging Sabie and Sabie being Mafia doesn't seem right for a Mafia team.
I suppose there is a world where Mafia Sniper aims at Mafia Sabie and Mafia Pyro reflects the kill to a random.

Wait can’t TSP also technically be claiming Spy?

[LinearPoint]

Though I can see merit for having TSP be confirmed sniper if we can work out a solid plan for the night that takes all roles into account.
This would probably necessitate a massclaim D3 though.

Frankly I don't see TSP Sabie.
TSP saying they were vigging Sabie and Sabie being Mafia doesn't seem right for a Mafia team.
I suppose there is a world where Mafia Sniper aims at Mafia Sabie and Mafia Pyro reflects the kill to a random.

Wait can’t TSP also technically be claiming Spy?

Yes? I suppose, but Sniper kind of just makes more sense since they seemed actually disappointed wasting N1.

[MartinGG99]

OK yeah I guess if we dictate the night action of every single role we can force people to stick to their claims.
The only possible wrenches are Engies since they chose who to roleblock before the night even occurs.
So if we're going to dictate Engie actions we need to dictate that soon so we can have the person request Engie access and get approved.

Nope.

People don't have to visit a base.

[LinearPoint]

This is all actually assuming TSP is a Sniper or Spy.

[MartinGG99]

The ability to submit a request to join a base within the first half of a day phase is completely optional, I checked.

Otherwise I would be awkwardly requesting to join my or other engi's base lol.

[Gavial]

Time for the Self Vote Technic.

[LinearPoint]

I assume you got nothing day 1? I can't imagine anyone would volunteer to be roleblocked N1, lol.

[MartinGG99]

If you are interested, choose what base you want to join in the next 24 hours

even says so here

[LinearPoint]

Wait.
Can't we like.
Force both heavies to submit a request to enter their engie's base?
If they are the only people to submit a request then that forces both Heavies out of the question of possibly saving Sabie.

[Dolby]

Frankly I don't see TSP Sabie.
TSP saying they were vigging Sabie and Sabie being Mafia doesn't seem right for a Mafia team.
I suppose there is a world where Mafia Sniper aims at Mafia Sabie and Mafia Pyro reflects the kill to a random.

I mean

he could be saying that for cred after thinking that sabie is always yeeted today

but yeah not likely outside that world outlined on the bottom

[LinearPoint]

If engies get more than 1 request they know one is Mafia.
And if engies get no request we just learn a Heavy is Mafia.

[Dolby]

Wait.
Can't we like.
Force both heavies to submit a request to enter their engie's base?
If they are the only people to submit a request then that forces both Heavies out of the question of possibly saving Sabie.

dependent on the answer to if air blast can redirect TSP's shot I'd rather pyro enter because we can just have heavies use their (probably not sandvich) abilities on marmot and tsp and be observed doing that.

granted this creates a claim battle rather than definete "X did this"

If the answer is yes, I want pyros in

If the ansewr is no, I want heavies in

Also TSP this is your last chance to rescind

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Its obvious Gav didn't read before posting.
But is notweorthy their first thought is that the kill was to frame Sabie and not Jack or Sig who I also mentioned Sabie was pushing.
Not 100% this is Mafia, but I'm not quite likeing Gav's chances at flipping Town here.

Sabie was also very off and on about voting Gav. They were at first, but ultimately gave Gav a pass for just being annoying.
Frankly I would look into it more, but that interaction was like 3 pages long.

Ah, I mean if Sabie is Mafia I wouldn’t mind getting ML’ed to this.
Even though the reason Sabie didn’t vote me is because my wagon was losing traction so Sabie needed a vote elsewhere because they knew I wouldn’t go through.

If Sabie is Town, it means mafia framed Sabie so they die today and I’m definitely never getting ML’ed in anyone’s right mind.
It also probably does spew players mafia such as Nanook and did you say something about Marmot having to do with Sabie as well?

"If sabie flips town, nanook is mafia"
"If sabie is mafia, nanook is mafia"

Dude just say you have a massive crush on me already and move on

[LinearPoint]

Yeah I suppose Pyro might just be the safer option.
I was kind of overlooking that since we have an open Pyro claim.

[Dolby]

Its obvious Gav didn't read before posting.
But is notweorthy their first thought is that the kill was to frame Sabie and not Jack or Sig who I also mentioned Sabie was pushing.
Not 100% this is Mafia, but I'm not quite likeing Gav's chances at flipping Town here.

Sabie was also very off and on about voting Gav. They were at first, but ultimately gave Gav a pass for just being annoying.
Frankly I would look into it more, but that interaction was like 3 pages long.

Ah, I mean if Sabie is Mafia I wouldn’t mind getting ML’ed to this.
Even though the reason Sabie didn’t vote me is because my wagon was losing traction so Sabie needed a vote elsewhere because they knew I wouldn’t go through.

If Sabie is Town, it means mafia framed Sabie so they die today and I’m definitely never getting ML’ed in anyone’s right mind.
It also probably does spew players mafia such as Nanook and did you say something about Marmot having to do with Sabie as well?

"If sabie flips town, nanook is mafia"
"If sabie is mafia, nanook is mafia"

Dude just say you have a massive crush on me already and move on

what if sabie is 3p

[LinearPoint]

I wasn't really expecting Wiggly to try and interrupt it.

[MartinGG99]

If engies get more than 1 request they know one is Mafia.
And if engies get no request we just learn a Heavy is Mafia.

there could be an issue of the other engi lying about who they got requests from but that creates a boxed-in scenario where the person has to claim they requested joining an engi's base and we just figure out who's lying

[Dolby]

also if we get 3 boxed in scenarios that's like 8 clear town and GG

[LinearPoint]

If engies get more than 1 request they know one is Mafia.
And if engies get no request we just learn a Heavy is Mafia.

there could be an issue of the other engi lying about who they got requests from but that creates a boxed-in scenario where the person has to claim they requested joining an engi's base and we just figure out who's lying

If an Engie lies the person who didn't request just says so. Or if Engie says they got only 1 and there was not only one someone will speak up.
If Engie is Mafia and another Mafia is working to co-berate this it'll be an easy double elimination killing 2 Mafia.

[LinearPoint]

Give me some time, I think I can figure a solution.

[NotAnAxehole]

I got role blocked last night.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m not rescinding and am theoretically on board with the plan and will not point out the one potential flaw

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m also still busy and apologise for thinking I would stop being busy as soon as I was allowed to spend time with my family for Christmas

[NotAnAxehole]

NAA dies either way and shouldn't be end gaming.

See honestly I was sort of expecting the Mafia to hard push for NAA lynch today because he never talked and started a random CFD which is just an easy target.
Granted, you're right NAA can't be trusted to carry a Town late game, but I don't like the hyperfixation on an easy target to mislynch.
Sure he may be Mafia, but NAA always does this shit as Town too, it's not really AI at this point in time I feel. If anything Guillotine is right he's more a decent vig target.

If NAA is town he threw! Either way he dies.

Sorry, I assumed whoever you were voting was town regardless of alignment, so I jumped ship.

Also, I sheeped Macdougall, he told me to do it. So you should really be killing Mac, and sheeping Seanzie.

[LinearPoint]

First off we need to know what color Engineer Martin is.
We have the Pyro who is the same color as Martin request access to his base.
We have the Pyro who is not the same color request access to the opposite base.

This takes both Pyros out of the picture for tonight.
IF either engie gets a second person requesting access they should grant access to who they trust is most likely to be Pyro.
THEN IF the engineer survives the night they out both players requesting access and we can go from there. Either way we determine who is a Pyro and who is faking being a Pyro.

Engies should probably just build Sentries, Teles are probably not worth building.

IF TSP is telling the truth about being Spy or Sniper they attempt to kill Sabie tonight.
Marmot can chose to either whip TSP or watch over TSP. Not saying which will create some unknown for Mafia so they don't know and if they try to RB TSP they risk being seen by Marmot.
Other Soldier should watch over Sabie to confirm TSP visits Sabie and discourage other visits.
IF Sabie is alive Soldier #2 outs and says who visited Sabie.
THEN IF Marmot is alive he says who visited TSP.
This should give enough information to figure out who saved Sabie and if it was a Sabie self sandvich Soldier #2 will confirm.
IF Sabie is alive and Soldier #2 does not out mass claim ASAP, the Soldier is a traitor. (if Soldier is Sabie then this plan fails somewhat, but will still confirm we have a Mafia Heavy or Demoman)

Both Demoman should be on Sabie tonight, RBing them. Soldier #2 should see this and confirm them.
IF Sabie lives despite this, then we still know both Demoman and all other visitors are suspect Medics or Heavies.

I think Heavies should probably out today.
Red Scout should track a random Heavy/Engineer claim today, obviously any visit is a confirmed Mafia.
Realistically Red Scout can track whoever they feel like if they think that player will be preforming the Mafia factional kill, but this is just a safe placeholder action.

This leaves 2 killers not named TSP and both Medics.
IF TSP Is not a Spy, we can have both medics heal the same target and have the Blue Spy attack that target.
The Blue Spy will get the names of all Town Medics if this occurs. Mafia Medics will not have their names revealed to the Blue Spy.
Blue Spy simply outs himself and says how many Medics he confirmed are Town. If he gets one or none then we know the Medics are sus. If he gets both then he does not say their names only that both Medics are Town. If this is ever proven false we have a confirmed Mafia Blue Spy on our hands.

Finally that leaves the last Sniper. We can't do much with them, they are killing who they aimed at N1.
Everyone else should be accounted for.
Obviously we don't know what Sabie is, Sabie is expected to not follow this plan, but it shouldn't matter as Sabie dies D3 if not N2.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Spy double medic thing is very good

[LinearPoint]

I mean with 4 Mafia they can possibly mess with the plan.
But for every Mafia that chooses to go off script they are forced into a claim war.
Mafia Medics are a bit screwed unless the Blue Spy is Mafia, but if Blue Spy chooses to confirm the Mafia Medic as Town then that puts both of them in a very thin wire they need to keep each other alive at all costs otherwise both die.

I mean the Red Scout and the Sniper have the most freedom so they are kind of safe from claimwars from this night plan, but Sniper can be addressed a later day and Scout will always be really hard to confirm.

If Mafia Demoman they basically are just outed if they don't follow the plan and the second Soldier is Town.
If Mafia Soldier they can probably get away with having the Demoman not Roleblock Sabie, but this again leaves us with the situation where if the Mafia Demoman or Mafia Soldier ever dies their confirming of each other falls apart.

Lastly Mafia Pyro, Engie, and Heavy are just not going to be conformable on this night. At the very least Engies should be able to confirm no Pyros act tonight and if they do then that looks really bad for the Pyro that didn't request access of the Engie who denied it.

If that plan is followed, I think we always massclaim D3.

[Dolby]

First off we need to know what color Engineer Martin is.
We have the Pyro who is the same color as Martin request access to his base.
We have the Pyro who is not the same color request access to the opposite base.

This takes both Pyros out of the picture for tonight.
IF either engie gets a second person requesting access they should grant access to who they trust is most likely to be Pyro.
THEN IF the engineer survives the night they out both players requesting access and we can go from there. Either way we determine who is a Pyro and who is faking being a Pyro.

Engies should probably just build Sentries, Teles are probably not worth building.

IF TSP is telling the truth about being Spy or Sniper they attempt to kill Sabie tonight.
Marmot can chose to either whip TSP or watch over TSP. Not saying which will create some unknown for Mafia so they don't know and if they try to RB TSP they risk being seen by Marmot.
Other Soldier should watch over Sabie to confirm TSP visits Sabie and discourage other visits.
IF Sabie is alive Soldier #2 outs and says who visited Sabie.
THEN IF Marmot is alive he says who visited TSP.
This should give enough information to figure out who saved Sabie and if it was a Sabie self sandvich Soldier #2 will confirm.
IF Sabie is alive and Soldier #2 does not out mass claim ASAP, the Soldier is a traitor. (if Soldier is Sabie then this plan fails somewhat, but will still confirm we have a Mafia Heavy or Demoman)

Both Demoman should be on Sabie tonight, RBing them. Soldier #2 should see this and confirm them.
IF Sabie lives despite this, then we still know both Demoman and all other visitors are suspect Medics or Heavies.

I think Heavies should probably out today.
Red Scout should track a random Heavy/Engineer claim today, obviously any visit is a confirmed Mafia.
Realistically Red Scout can track whoever they feel like if they think that player will be preforming the Mafia factional kill, but this is just a safe placeholder action.

This leaves 2 killers not named TSP and both Medics.
IF TSP Is not a Spy, we can have both medics heal the same target and have the Blue Spy attack that target.
The Blue Spy will get the names of all Town Medics if this occurs. Mafia Medics will not have their names revealed to the Blue Spy.
Blue Spy simply outs himself and says how many Medics he confirmed are Town. If he gets one or none then we know the Medics are sus. If he gets both then he does not say their names only that both Medics are Town. If this is ever proven false we have a confirmed Mafia Blue Spy on our hands.

Finally that leaves the last Sniper. We can't do much with them, they are killing who they aimed at N1.
Everyone else should be accounted for.
Obviously we don't know what Sabie is, Sabie is expected to not follow this plan, but it shouldn't matter as Sabie dies D3 if not N2.

I personally think that it's just easier and more accountable if Soldier #2 is on marmot.

Yes it's easier for demo to block somebody who is not Sabie, but Mafia would either be taking a shot in the dark or blocking a watched person by having mafia demomen roleblock someone who's not sabie. In addition, we would be able to see if demos swoop in to roleblock that target if that target is marmot or TSP (who honestly I'm assuming that target would be), and be able to clear medics from roleblocking those people under the auspices of their medic roles.

I think agree with double medic

tbh I didn't realize that heavy was a day use thing. Yeah you're right, heavies should use their day abilities, or not use their abilities at all

[Dolby]

Yeah we always mass claim D3

[NotAnAxehole]

Aside from role mechanics, what do you think about the game?

[LinearPoint]

Only issue would then be, who is lynched if not Sabie?

And if we try the double Medic on Spy (which sounds more like a euphemism honestly) who do we have that be on?
Should it be someone who we are fine possibly dying tonight or do we have them go for Martin which would protect Martin from Mafia kill tonight and confirm Martin is Town engineer if the Dispenser dies due to attacked and healed. Mafia Engie would have their building still up and if Martin is RBed and attacked then we know this due to no building being made at all along with the building being destroyed.

[Dolby]

Aside from role mechanics, what do you think about the game?

fuck if I know lol

at least one CFDer is a wolf

I like LP

I like Guillo

Marmot is town and Sabie's a wolf

someone else had 3 votes yesterday and the fact that Seanzie went over is whack

I'm going with TSP town for the moment

[LinearPoint]

Another option is to have both Demoman use their eyelanders today so they can't Roleblock, but then Sabie could act.
This might be preferred if we end up just offing Sabie today and not trying to confirm TSP.

[LinearPoint]

I'm honestly still partial to just taking the guaranteed Mafia lynch though.
Especially with the odds of there being 3 kills tonight. Majority could very easily slip.

[Dolby]

I'm honestly still partial to just taking the guaranteed Mafia lynch though.
Especially with the odds of there being 3 kills tonight. Majority could very easily slip.

it's 12v4 rn

I think worst case scenario with spies both being mafia and snipers and both snipers being mafia (TSP lying) we drop to 7v4?

then we yeet tsp and sabie and carry out our day and go to like 5v2

[LinearPoint]

Yeah I suppose even in WCS its also assuming all kills go through with 4 people who can stop kills still alive.
Just got a bad feeling that Sabie wont be dying today.

[LinearPoint]

*tonight

[NotAnAxehole]

I'm honestly still partial to just taking the guaranteed Mafia lynch though.
Especially with the odds of there being 3 kills tonight. Majority could very easily slip.

it's 12v4 rn

I think worst case scenario with spies both being mafia and snipers and both snipers being mafia (TSP lying) we drop to 7v4?

then we yeet tsp and sabie and carry out our day and go to like 5v2

I don't get it, why wouldn't we just kill Sabie today? Also, I think TSP is full of shit.

[Dolby]

LP how do you feel about Soldier #2 being on Marmot instead of Sabie?

I still dont see anything besides pyros air blast that would lead to Sabie not not dying in a way that would force another mafia into a claim battle

also if pyro's airblast changes TSP's claim target we should just yeet Sabie

[Dolby]

I'm honestly still partial to just taking the guaranteed Mafia lynch though.
Especially with the odds of there being 3 kills tonight. Majority could very easily slip.

it's 12v4 rn

I think worst case scenario with spies both being mafia and snipers and both snipers being mafia (TSP lying) we drop to 7v4?

then we yeet tsp and sabie and carry out our day and go to like 5v2

I don't get it, why wouldn't we just kill Sabie today? Also, I think TSP is full of shit.

1. I'd rather have actual wagons today
2. If TSP is full of shit he gets outted or forced into a claim battle with someone else (marmot) who is townier than him

so we either get a yeet that means something or two mafia for the price of one, to be collected at a later date (D3)

[LinearPoint]

I mean regardless if Sabie ever lives to D3 they die.
The Soldier watching Marmot is fine. It means we can't confirm both Demo roleblocked Sabie, but I think that's the only issue with it.

THere's also the fact we just don't know what Sabie is. Sabie can be anything.

[NotAnAxehole]

Well, tbh if we're not killing Sabie, we should kill Mac for saving Sabie D1

[LinearPoint]

I think really the fact we don't know which mafia Sabie is is the main issue with any plan.
Sabie can ruin it with no repressions.

[LinearPoint]

Well, tbh if we're not killing Sabie, we should kill Mac for saving Sabie D1

You misspelt your name.

[Dolby]

I mean regardless if Sabie ever lives to D3 they die.
The Soldier watching Marmot is fine. It means we can't confirm both Demo roleblocked Sabie, but I think that's the only issue with it.

THere's also the fact we just don't know what Sabie is. Sabie can be anything.

I think we have a problem in the following worlds:

1. Sabie is Soldier #2
2. Sabie is Engy #2

honestly that's it

[LinearPoint]

TBH if we yeet a not Sabie I'd go with NAA.