Anniversary Game 3 - Cindy Kate Meet Up [GAME OVER - TOWN WIN]

[Millium]

If Belzy is town and telling the truth.

They lied about having a green check on me for several phases.

They lied about me being loverised to them even though they nearly went over and could have easily been vigged or killed by mafia.

They chose to loverise dyachei (or me if there's some mech shenanigans) when their day 1 suspicion they themselves vocalised was millium and a town lover should target a mafia suspect not a top town.

I think you just ... accept that if a player who makes these decisions is town that it's okay to lose due to their decision making. No offence to Belzy if they are town, I think we've all been there where we've made incorrect decisions in mafia but ... this stuff is egregious at every level.

If Belzy is mafia I think Ender and Rondo are probably the last 2.

If somehow Belzy is town, which is the ... feeling I cannot shake that's opening up a myriad of tinfoil possibilities. Then we are probably just losing to Ilario, dya and whoever the fuck.

I think there's like almost no chance you are lovers with Belzy to be honest. I don't trust a word they say and they've proven that to be wise and I'm wondering how much I should be trusting you too.

then he is outted when Belzy dies

You think that if Belzy died and flips mafia if I dont die I'm outed?

Please explain.

no if they arent a neighborizor, should have clarified that, sorry

[MacDougall]

If Belzy dies and flips mafia but we aren't loverised I really don't see how it outs me. That's a very problematic take. I think this constant tinfoil that Belzy and I have w/w equity is ... dumb lol.

[EnderWiggin]

If you think I try to bring you onside when there are players I have less of a struggle pocketing in this game Mac then you really are egocentric lol.

[MacDougall]

If Belzy is town and telling the truth.

They lied about having a green check on me for several phases.

They lied about me being loverised to them even though they nearly went over and could have easily been vigged or killed by mafia.

They chose to loverise dyachei (or me if there's some mech shenanigans) when their day 1 suspicion they themselves vocalised was millium and a town lover should target a mafia suspect not a top town.

I think you just ... accept that if a player who makes these decisions is town that it's okay to lose due to their decision making. No offence to Belzy if they are town, I think we've all been there where we've made incorrect decisions in mafia but ... this stuff is egregious at every level.

If Belzy is mafia I think Ender and Rondo are probably the last 2.

If somehow Belzy is town, which is the ... feeling I cannot shake that's opening up a myriad of tinfoil possibilities. Then we are probably just losing to Ilario, dya and whoever the fuck.

I think there's like almost no chance you are lovers with Belzy to be honest. I don't trust a word they say and they've proven that to be wise and I'm wondering how much I should be trusting you too.

then he is outted when Belzy dies

You think that if Belzy died and flips mafia if I dont die I'm outed?

Please explain.

no if they arent a neighborizor, should have clarified that, sorry

And what if a different wolf is a neighboriser that targeted Belzy and Dya and ended up making Belzy and Mac chat?

I don't think you can make a salient argument that I'm ever mafia with Belzy with how I've treated them.

Also @ilario when Ender was catching up and case making he pulled some quotes that cast me in a bad light but pulled up short if highlighting the d2 Mac/Porscha interactions that spew me clear. Not my side, Porscha's side. Porscha doesn't have distancing to the degree she would have done so me in her mafia toolkit.

[MacDougall]

If you think I try to bring you onside when there are players I have less of a struggle pocketing in this game Mac then you really are egocentric lol.

This is a very reductionist way to argue my point.

All it needs to be is "Loverise mac n1 for obvious reasons and then let's not annoy him too much". I don't think perceiving the possibility this is the mafia plan needs to come from an egoistic perspective and I think trying to imply it does is scummy.

[dyachei]

the way belzy lied to mac in chat probably always makes him a villager. I don't think mac would have outed the claim in thread when he was suspicious if he were a wolf.

[Millium]

ohh there is another 24 hours

[EnderWiggin]

If you think I try to bring you onside when there are players I have less of a struggle pocketing in this game Mac then you really are egocentric lol.

This is a very reductionist way to argue my point.

All it needs to be is "Loverise mac n1 for obvious reasons and then let's not annoy him too much". I don't think perceiving the possibility this is the mafia plan needs to come from an egoistic perspective and I think trying to imply it does is scummy.

You implied the wolf plan was to pocket you. My point is that N1 W!Ender with any team involving Belzy and doesn't involve you probably doesn't decide "Let's loverise Mac to keep him around." and instead picks someone I can get Belzy to pocket until End of Game.

My comment was to laugh at your read.

[MacDougall]

I'm not sure you've noticed but the current meta for mafia dealing with Mac is pocket pocket pocket. Just ask Neon.

[MacDougall]

I do thing your objections are indicative of you telling the truth here tho.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

If Belzy is town and telling the truth.

They lied about having a green check on me for several phases.

They lied about me being loverised to them even though they nearly went over and could have easily been vigged or killed by mafia.

They chose to loverise dyachei (or me if there's some mech shenanigans) when their day 1 suspicion they themselves vocalised was millium and a town lover should target a mafia suspect not a top town.

I think you just ... accept that if a player who makes these decisions is town that it's okay to lose due to their decision making. No offence to Belzy if they are town, I think we've all been there where we've made incorrect decisions in mafia but ... this stuff is egregious at every level.

If Belzy is mafia I think Ender and Rondo are probably the last 2.

If somehow Belzy is town, which is the ... feeling I cannot shake that's opening up a myriad of tinfoil possibilities. Then we are probably just losing to Ilario, dya and whoever the fuck.

I think there's like almost no chance you are lovers with Belzy to be honest. I don't trust a word they say and they've proven that to be wise and I'm wondering how much I should be trusting you too.

You really think there is a world where Belzy and I can still both be mafia?

I mean there's tinfoil... and then there's TINFOIL.

Yeah i do. I think it's more likely only one of you is but I certainly think it's plausible that both of you are.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

If Belzy is town and telling the truth.

They lied about having a green check on me for several phases.

They lied about me being loverised to them even though they nearly went over and could have easily been vigged or killed by mafia.

They chose to loverise dyachei (or me if there's some mech shenanigans) when their day 1 suspicion they themselves vocalised was millium and a town lover should target a mafia suspect not a top town.

I think you just ... accept that if a player who makes these decisions is town that it's okay to lose due to their decision making. No offence to Belzy if they are town, I think we've all been there where we've made incorrect decisions in mafia but ... this stuff is egregious at every level.

If Belzy is mafia I think Ender and Rondo are probably the last 2.

If somehow Belzy is town, which is the ... feeling I cannot shake that's opening up a myriad of tinfoil possibilities. Then we are probably just losing to Ilario, dya and whoever the fuck.

I think there's like almost no chance you are lovers with Belzy to be honest. I don't trust a word they say and they've proven that to be wise and I'm wondering how much I should be trusting you too.

then he is outted when Belzy dies

Not really. We aren't privy to the neighborhood if it exists. Belzy lying to Mac on repeat is also a possibility since it will look Mac look bad if they continue not dying and Belzy is dead

[EnderWiggin]

I'm not sure you've noticed but the current meta for mafia dealing with Mac is pocket pocket pocket. Just ask Neon.

You also have a history of sussing me no matter what I do. As both alignments.

I am not Neon who gets townreads for existing =P

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

If Belzy is town and telling the truth.

They lied about having a green check on me for several phases.

They lied about me being loverised to them even though they nearly went over and could have easily been vigged or killed by mafia.

They chose to loverise dyachei (or me if there's some mech shenanigans) when their day 1 suspicion they themselves vocalised was millium and a town lover should target a mafia suspect not a top town.

I think you just ... accept that if a player who makes these decisions is town that it's okay to lose due to their decision making. No offence to Belzy if they are town, I think we've all been there where we've made incorrect decisions in mafia but ... this stuff is egregious at every level.

If Belzy is mafia I think Ender and Rondo are probably the last 2.

If somehow Belzy is town, which is the ... feeling I cannot shake that's opening up a myriad of tinfoil possibilities. Then we are probably just losing to Ilario, dya and whoever the fuck.

I think there's like almost no chance you are lovers with Belzy to be honest. I don't trust a word they say and they've proven that to be wise and I'm wondering how much I should be trusting you too.

then he is outted when Belzy dies

You think that if Belzy died and flips mafia if I dont die I'm outed?

Please explain.

no if they arent a neighborizor, should have clarified that, sorry

And what if a different wolf is a neighboriser that targeted Belzy and Dya and ended up making Belzy and Mac chat?

I don't think you can make a salient argument that I'm ever mafia with Belzy with how I've treated them.

Also @ilario when Ender was catching up and case making he pulled some quotes that cast me in a bad light but pulled up short if highlighting the d2 Mac/Porscha interactions that spew me clear. Not my side, Porscha's side. Porscha doesn't have distancing to the degree she would have done so me in her mafia toolkit.

Setting up for the Belzy flip...bet

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'm not sure you've noticed but the current meta for mafia dealing with Mac is pocket pocket pocket. Just ask Neon.

I mean I did the opposite in Sabi invitational tbh tbh. But yes I did use that strategy prior though we lost

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'm not sure you've noticed but the current meta for mafia dealing with Mac is pocket pocket pocket. Just ask Neon.

You also have a history of sussing me no matter what I do. As both alignments.

I am not Neon who gets townreads for existing =P

*sip* just become an uwu anime gorl

[MacDougall]

You're conflating me with Brad.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'm sorry if I've upset anyone this game. Town is getting stomped and tensions are high I think we all need to give each other more benefit of the doubt when it comes to emotions and feelings and we all need to try to be better at understanding how others might feel.

I'm sorry I love you all we can still win this but we need to work together we got this

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

You're conflating me with Brad.

Me dumb and don't understand what this means

[MacDougall]

I'm not sure you've noticed but the current meta for mafia dealing with Mac is pocket pocket pocket. Just ask Neon.

You also have a history of sussing me no matter what I do. As both alignments.

I am not Neon who gets townreads for existing =P

Until you suddenly become polarised or I suddenly decide that cycling through reads and pressuring them to see how they react is suboptimal this will be the world we live in lol.

[MacDougall]

You're conflating me with Brad.

Me dumb and don't understand what this means

Nvm

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

You're conflating me with Brad.

Me dumb and don't understand what this means

Nvm

Like my brain literally can't comprehend what the words mean I guess I could just Google it

[MacDougall]

If you were to be like "Mac who do you think has just been wolfy in this game" Ilario would be my top scumread by some distance. Then Neon. Ender would be my top town.

But I have this gift/curse of being able to ignore my own intuitions and evaluate through level 1 scumreads which causes me to have unstable reads until I don't.

And right now I don't have enough benchmarking to feel confident on anything so I'm still in flywheel mode. Spinning spinning spinning.

[Millium]

belzy set herself up for the belzy flip lmao

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

If you were to be like "Mac who do you think has just been wolfy in this game" Ilario would be my top scumread by some distance. Then Neon. Ender would be my top town.

But I have this gift/curse of being able to ignore my own intuitions and evaluate through level 1 scumreads which causes me to have unstable reads until I don't.

And right now I don't have enough benchmarking to feel confident on anything so I'm still in flywheel mode. Spinning spinning spinning.

Am I solely scummy because of my treatment of santy? Or is it because I suspect we are being hoodwinked here?

I don't think my wolf range is this wide I think I've clearly played in my town range... I'm just an idiot

[MacDougall]

If you were to be like "Mac who do you think has just been wolfy in this game" Ilario would be my top scumread by some distance. Then Neon. Ender would be my top town.

But I have this gift/curse of being able to ignore my own intuitions and evaluate through level 1 scumreads which causes me to have unstable reads until I don't.

And right now I don't have enough benchmarking to feel confident on anything so I'm still in flywheel mode. Spinning spinning spinning.

Am I solely scummy because of my treatment of santy? Or is it because I suspect we are being hoodwinked here?

I don't think my wolf range is this wide I think I've clearly played in my town range... I'm just an idiot

Neon you have just had two monster wolf games in a row where you subverted ýour perceived wolfrange and dined out on people underestimating you so you really can't make this argument if you are town.

You're scummy because of the way you handled claims, some of your porscha interactions and generally being openwolfy and lying a lot.

[MacDougall]

To understand my Ilario suspicion you have to recognise firstly that I have a very good track record of reading him. In the last game we were t/t I correctly townread Ilario and he suspected me for it and in post said I was one of the best players at reading him. The reason I can read Ilario is because we generally view the game similarly and find the same things suspicious. We end up coalescing.

Ilario is scummy because he's projected confidence on reads beyond a reasonable degree in ways that stood out because I was on the other side of them without information. Has managed to keep his hands too clean while the wolves have been cleaning up and has failed to coalesce with me on much when we usually mind meld a lot as town. In this game we have found ourselves diametrically opposed on reads on Alison, dyachei, Ender and others. I've largely been proven wrong when the flips come but that doesn't mean he's towny. The issue is that he shouldn't have townread Alison. If you look back through Alison's play the day she got chopped she was hard wolfsiding. Ilario townread Alison in ways that indicated he wasn't even aware of things she'd said. He was just aware she was town in spite of that. His approach to Alison reeks of TMI. And a great deal of his game has.

[Millium]

sounds like a skillissue

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

If you were to be like "Mac who do you think has just been wolfy in this game" Ilario would be my top scumread by some distance. Then Neon. Ender would be my top town.

But I have this gift/curse of being able to ignore my own intuitions and evaluate through level 1 scumreads which causes me to have unstable reads until I don't.

And right now I don't have enough benchmarking to feel confident on anything so I'm still in flywheel mode. Spinning spinning spinning.

Am I solely scummy because of my treatment of santy? Or is it because I suspect we are being hoodwinked here?

I don't think my wolf range is this wide I think I've clearly played in my town range... I'm just an idiot

Neon you have just had two monster wolf games in a row where you subverted ýour perceived wolfrange and dined out on people underestimating you so you really can't make this argument if you are town.

You're scummy because of the way you handled claims, some of your porscha interactions and generally being openwolfy and lying a lot.

But why would wolf me lie like that? If I'm wolf I just claim one shot delayed tracker who got no results with conditional double vote. I don't try to red check santy or to try to play to the possibility that Porscha used her ability on you...I don't need to I'm already town read in this scenario I don't need to pull a gambit to try to get info from my failure to use my mech properly. I can just push santy off Allison I don't need to do a dumb red check to see what happens because I don't believe his claim.

I lied. I'm much more likely to do that as town here. I hoodwinked people for 2 straight games on the back of being much more open and honest than town expects a wolf to be.

[MacDougall]

@Millium @ilario @dyachei @EnderWiggin

I am presently humouring a Belzy/Neon/Lilypetal team. What says you?

[MacDougall]

If you were to be like "Mac who do you think has just been wolfy in this game" Ilario would be my top scumread by some distance. Then Neon. Ender would be my top town.

But I have this gift/curse of being able to ignore my own intuitions and evaluate through level 1 scumreads which causes me to have unstable reads until I don't.

And right now I don't have enough benchmarking to feel confident on anything so I'm still in flywheel mode. Spinning spinning spinning.

Am I solely scummy because of my treatment of santy? Or is it because I suspect we are being hoodwinked here?

I don't think my wolf range is this wide I think I've clearly played in my town range... I'm just an idiot

Neon you have just had two monster wolf games in a row where you subverted ýour perceived wolfrange and dined out on people underestimating you so you really can't make this argument if you are town.

You're scummy because of the way you handled claims, some of your porscha interactions and generally being openwolfy and lying a lot.

But why would wolf me lie like that? If I'm wolf I just claim one shot delayed tracker who got no results with conditional double vote. I don't try to red check santy or to try to play to the possibility that Porscha used her ability on you...I don't need to I'm already town read in this scenario I don't need to pull a gambit to try to get info from my failure to use my mech properly. I can just push santy off Allison I don't need to do a dumb red check to see what happens because I don't believe his claim.

I lied. I'm much more likely to do that as town here. I hoodwinked people for 2 straight games on the back of being much more open and honest than town expects a wolf to be.

I believe you to be a wolf that is very deliberate in playing in ways that aren't reflective of how you think people perceive you. You switched up your situational decisions in the previous two wolfrands in order to not get caught by meta arguments and given our interaction on day 1 where I felt you were a carbon copy of previous game neon I feel like it would be all too obvious for you to switch up some of your playstyle in superficial ways just so you can avoid being pinned on meta. The problem is that you're just scummy. Your decision making has led to negative outcomes for town and contributed to a chaotic gamestate in a way that I don't think you'd do as town. You don't come across innocent of mind you seem purposefully and tactical ergo the net result is something you should be held to. And the net result is bad.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Wolfy popin

[MacDougall]

@Millium why did you not take umbrage with Nanook recommending I shoot you?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@Millium why did you not take umbrage with Nanook recommending I shoot you?

Cause he's mafia lol

[MacDougall]

But he has taken issue with practically everyone who dared look his way this game. Read how he and Ilario interacted in day 1.

[ilario]

@ilario have you posted an ender case? I dont remember

oh nah i got distracted since today is a writeoff- ive written bits and pieces throughout the today of my concerns but no actual case case

[ilario]

If Belzy is town and telling the truth.

They lied about having a green check on me for several phases.

They lied about me being loverised to them even though they nearly went over and could have easily been vigged or killed by mafia.

They chose to loverise dyachei (or me if there's some mech shenanigans) when their day 1 suspicion they themselves vocalised was millium and a town lover should target a mafia suspect not a top town.

I think you just ... accept that if a player who makes these decisions is town that it's okay to lose due to their decision making. No offence to Belzy if they are town, I think we've all been there where we've made incorrect decisions in mafia but ... this stuff is egregious at every level.

If Belzy is mafia I think Ender and Rondo are probably the last 2.

If somehow Belzy is town, which is the ... feeling I cannot shake that's opening up a myriad of tinfoil possibilities. Then we are probably just losing to Ilario, dya and whoever the fuck.

ender?? i mean i can see it and hope thats the case to validate my push, but what changed your mind?

Belzy being mafia would mean that I've been a pawn in the mafia game and immediately lends suspicion to those who've been more vocally aligned to me and makes the players who've been less of a Mac ally more likely to be town. It would indicate that the mafia gameplan has been to steer me since as early as n1. Ender would be the primary suspect. Lilypetal would be second.

oh nice, that was some of my issues with ender too. why lily? im happy to go through her again when i have time, but if shes mafia then damnnnn lol she pretty good

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

If you were to be like "Mac who do you think has just been wolfy in this game" Ilario would be my top scumread by some distance. Then Neon. Ender would be my top town.

But I have this gift/curse of being able to ignore my own intuitions and evaluate through level 1 scumreads which causes me to have unstable reads until I don't.

And right now I don't have enough benchmarking to feel confident on anything so I'm still in flywheel mode. Spinning spinning spinning.

Am I solely scummy because of my treatment of santy? Or is it because I suspect we are being hoodwinked here?

I don't think my wolf range is this wide I think I've clearly played in my town range... I'm just an idiot

Neon you have just had two monster wolf games in a row where you subverted ýour perceived wolfrange and dined out on people underestimating you so you really can't make this argument if you are town.

You're scummy because of the way you handled claims, some of your porscha interactions and generally being openwolfy and lying a lot.

But why would wolf me lie like that? If I'm wolf I just claim one shot delayed tracker who got no results with conditional double vote. I don't try to red check santy or to try to play to the possibility that Porscha used her ability on you...I don't need to I'm already town read in this scenario I don't need to pull a gambit to try to get info from my failure to use my mech properly. I can just push santy off Allison I don't need to do a dumb red check to see what happens because I don't believe his claim.

I lied. I'm much more likely to do that as town here. I hoodwinked people for 2 straight games on the back of being much more open and honest than town expects a wolf to be.

I believe you to be a wolf that is very deliberate in playing in ways that aren't reflective of how you think people perceive you. You switched up your situational decisions in the previous two wolfrands in order to not get caught by meta arguments and given our interaction on day 1 where I felt you were a carbon copy of previous game neon I feel like it would be all too obvious for you to switch up some of your playstyle in superficial ways just so you can avoid being pinned on meta. The problem is that you're just scummy. Your decision making has led to negative outcomes for town and contributed to a chaotic gamestate in a way that I don't think you'd do as town. You don't come across innocent of mind you seem purposefully and tactical ergo the net result is something you should be held to. And the net result is bad.

Yes I've most certainly fucked town I think we've all fucked town but it's not because I'm scum I'm just an idiot this game... and honestly in most games lol



Frankly i don't blame anyone for flipping me but I don't want town to lose on my misexe but at this point I don't know how I can dig myself out of poe again. I've bounced in and out of poe for days and I think I'm being set up to be the game winning misexe and at this point maybe I should be.

But I'm not alone. I don't want to get into calling everyone out for their mistakes though because I want to cool off the negativity in this range thread right now and that won't help. I've messed up...I need to play better...I want to be a better player I've been begging people to teach me how to be better but I'm not better.

You think my wolf rands are me counciousely subverting expected wolf play but frankly I don't do that at least not consciously I'm not smart enough to try to be that kind of player.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I still find nook wolfy lol

[MacDougall]

@Neon you called yourself stupid and dismissed me scumreading you for skilful wolf play in the last wolf game we played. You don't have that card to play anymore and the more you do it the worse you look.

[ilario]

To understand my Ilario suspicion you have to recognise firstly that I have a very good track record of reading him. In the last game we were t/t I correctly townread Ilario and he suspected me for it and in post said I was one of the best players at reading him. The reason I can read Ilario is because we generally view the game similarly and find the same things suspicious. We end up coalescing.

Ilario is scummy because he's projected confidence on reads beyond a reasonable degree in ways that stood out because I was on the other side of them without information. Has managed to keep his hands too clean while the wolves have been cleaning up and has failed to coalesce with me on much when we usually mind meld a lot as town. In this game we have found ourselves diametrically opposed on reads on Alison, dyachei, Ender and others. I've largely been proven wrong when the flips come but that doesn't mean he's towny. The issue is that he shouldn't have townread Alison. If you look back through Alison's play the day she got chopped she was hard wolfsiding. Ilario townread Alison in ways that indicated he wasn't even aware of things she'd said. He was just aware she was town in spite of that. His approach to Alison reeks of TMI. And a great deal of his game has.

thats understandable, a large part of it is i dont really explain my reads when im busy or during early stages of the game. i was just reading back at posts from alison and found them towny, there really wasnt much else to it, i dont really factor wolfsiding into peoples alignments because villas can be wrong and often are. im not saying this to change your mind or anything, just that i agree that you go generally are one of the people i consider the strongest at reading me but yeah that doesnt mean we cant be wrong on each other and hopefully knowing all this will help you understand me in a future game if im giving you the same pings.

[MacDougall]

If Belzy is town and telling the truth.

They lied about having a green check on me for several phases.

They lied about me being loverised to them even though they nearly went over and could have easily been vigged or killed by mafia.

They chose to loverise dyachei (or me if there's some mech shenanigans) when their day 1 suspicion they themselves vocalised was millium and a town lover should target a mafia suspect not a top town.

I think you just ... accept that if a player who makes these decisions is town that it's okay to lose due to their decision making. No offence to Belzy if they are town, I think we've all been there where we've made incorrect decisions in mafia but ... this stuff is egregious at every level.

If Belzy is mafia I think Ender and Rondo are probably the last 2.

If somehow Belzy is town, which is the ... feeling I cannot shake that's opening up a myriad of tinfoil possibilities. Then we are probably just losing to Ilario, dya and whoever the fuck.

ender?? i mean i can see it and hope thats the case to validate my push, but what changed your mind?

Belzy being mafia would mean that I've been a pawn in the mafia game and immediately lends suspicion to those who've been more vocally aligned to me and makes the players who've been less of a Mac ally more likely to be town. It would indicate that the mafia gameplan has been to steer me since as early as n1. Ender would be the primary suspect. Lilypetal would be second.

oh nice, that was some of my issues with ender too. why lily? im happy to go through her again when i have time, but if shes mafia then damnnnn lol she pretty good

Go back to day 1. Lily was consensus suspected by a lot of people for having a tepid entry. Came back and posted her way out.

But aside from shoot Porscha what has Lily done other than shield me (someone likely loverised to a wolf) and stop us from chopping Porscha?

Where's the town solving mindset?

[MacDougall]

To understand my Ilario suspicion you have to recognise firstly that I have a very good track record of reading him. In the last game we were t/t I correctly townread Ilario and he suspected me for it and in post said I was one of the best players at reading him. The reason I can read Ilario is because we generally view the game similarly and find the same things suspicious. We end up coalescing.

Ilario is scummy because he's projected confidence on reads beyond a reasonable degree in ways that stood out because I was on the other side of them without information. Has managed to keep his hands too clean while the wolves have been cleaning up and has failed to coalesce with me on much when we usually mind meld a lot as town. In this game we have found ourselves diametrically opposed on reads on Alison, dyachei, Ender and others. I've largely been proven wrong when the flips come but that doesn't mean he's towny. The issue is that he shouldn't have townread Alison. If you look back through Alison's play the day she got chopped she was hard wolfsiding. Ilario townread Alison in ways that indicated he wasn't even aware of things she'd said. He was just aware she was town in spite of that. His approach to Alison reeks of TMI. And a great deal of his game has.

thats understandable, a large part of it is i dont really explain my reads when im busy or during early stages of the game. i was just reading back at posts from alison and found them towny, there really wasnt much else to it, i dont really factor wolfsiding into peoples alignments because villas can be wrong and often are. im not saying this to change your mind or anything, just that i agree that you go generally are one of the people i consider the strongest at reading me but yeah that doesnt mean we cant be wrong on each other and hopefully knowing all this will help you understand me in a future game if im giving you the same pings.

You should reread your own ISO from the start imo. I feel like it will help you.

[ilario]

If Belzy is town and telling the truth.

They lied about having a green check on me for several phases.

They lied about me being loverised to them even though they nearly went over and could have easily been vigged or killed by mafia.

They chose to loverise dyachei (or me if there's some mech shenanigans) when their day 1 suspicion they themselves vocalised was millium and a town lover should target a mafia suspect not a top town.

I think you just ... accept that if a player who makes these decisions is town that it's okay to lose due to their decision making. No offence to Belzy if they are town, I think we've all been there where we've made incorrect decisions in mafia but ... this stuff is egregious at every level.

If Belzy is mafia I think Ender and Rondo are probably the last 2.

If somehow Belzy is town, which is the ... feeling I cannot shake that's opening up a myriad of tinfoil possibilities. Then we are probably just losing to Ilario, dya and whoever the fuck.

ender?? i mean i can see it and hope thats the case to validate my push, but what changed your mind?

Belzy being mafia would mean that I've been a pawn in the mafia game and immediately lends suspicion to those who've been more vocally aligned to me and makes the players who've been less of a Mac ally more likely to be town. It would indicate that the mafia gameplan has been to steer me since as early as n1. Ender would be the primary suspect. Lilypetal would be second.

oh nice, that was some of my issues with ender too. why lily? im happy to go through her again when i have time, but if shes mafia then damnnnn lol she pretty good

Go back to day 1. Lily was consensus suspected by a lot of people for having a tepid entry. Came back and posted her way out.

But aside from shoot Porscha what has Lily done other than shield me (someone likely loverised to a wolf) and stop us from chopping Porscha?

Where's the town solving mindset?

hmm i find her approach to neon and her towny entitlement to be villagery. is that within her range? i also think her approach to porcha d1 was almost too blatant for a partner.

[ilario]

@Millium @ilario @dyachei @EnderWiggin

I am presently humouring a Belzy/Neon/Lilypetal team. What says you?

i think we probably lose if thats the team lmao, but ill try and do my due diligence. can you go into any dya concerns you may have? i feel like i need atleast one person i can take as a ride or die until atleast lylo (provided i dont die) and im not sure who else it would be now that ur concerned on lily.

[MacDougall]

She also lied about being able to solve Porscha. What kind of town vigilante has a scumread so strong on someone that they intentionally cause them to not be chopped just so they can shoot them? Feels like bs.

If you consider what would have happened to Lily if things played out such that Porscha just went over you have your motive for why they shoot their wolf teammate.

Their towny entitlement is a point in their favour though. But then again I put the doc on them and there's still two kills so seems like the mafia didn't bother shooting a town who shot a mafia and whose vest they popped WITH two kp to use?

[ilario]

oh wait if u die today then im probs the nk LOL what am i worried about

gl yall

[MacDougall]

@Millium @ilario @dyachei @EnderWiggin

I am presently humouring a Belzy/Neon/Lilypetal team. What says you?

i think we probably lose if thats the team lmao, but ill try and do my due diligence. can you go into any dya concerns you may have? i feel like i need atleast one person i can take as a ride or die until atleast lylo (provided i dont die) and im not sure who else it would be now that ur concerned on lily.

Going into concerns on dya is not something I've any interest in doing.

[ilario]

She also lied about being able to solve Porscha. What kind of town vigilante has a scumread so strong on someone that they intentionally cause them to not be chopped just so they can shoot them? Feels like bs.

If you consider what would have happened to Lily if things played out such that Porscha just went over you have your motive for why they shoot their wolf teammate.

Their towny entitlement is a point in their favour though. But then again I put the doc on them and there's still two kills so seems like the mafia didn't bother shooting a town who shot a mafia and whose vest they popped WITH two kp to use?

if lily is mafia then it might be with rondo? because for lily to be scum that means there was no wolf kp shown on d2 and the bp hit was a lie? which means i blocked the wolf kp?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@Neon you called yourself stupid and dismissed me scumreading you for skilful wolf play in the last wolf game we played. You don't have that card to play anymore and the more you do it the worse you look.

Welcome to the brain of Neon where I have no self confidence and when I play like shit and lose the game it gets worse