Kid's Birthday Party Mafia Game Over

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Fucks sake dude are you even thinking about what you write

I'm not doing this with you again. It's been a good game without that and it will persist as such. Please find a different way to engage with me.

If I think there's one between esooa and you

And you think there's one between esooa and me

If I flip town and you're town, and esooa flips red, what does that leave us with

Oh, that's right, an accurate difference check between you and esooa

Which you can't even say you don't believe in, cause your two person poe is the same as mine just with us swapped lol

I'm not sure you understand why I have doubts about this. The logic is quite simple, I agree. The origin of the read is unclear to me. In a game with one living mafia, you can take any set of two suspects and say "this is a difference check" by the same rationale. What is it about the state of this game that causes you to feature the two of us, specifically the two of us and not any other set of two in your difference check? That's what I am trying to understand.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean you can't say "I don't believe your difference check" and then have the same fucking two person poe just with us swapped lol

That implicitly means you do, in fact, believe my difference check

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I mean you can't say "I don't believe your difference check" and then have the same fucking two person poe just with us swapped lol

That implicitly means you do, in fact, believe my difference check

So that's what it is then? I asked a moment ago and you treated me like the dumbest man alive. Is it purely a matter of POE?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean you can't say "I don't believe your difference check" and then have the same fucking two person poe just with us swapped lol

That implicitly means you do, in fact, believe my difference check

So that's what it is then? I asked a moment ago and you treated me like the dumbest man alive. Is it purely a matter of POE?

I clowned you for acting as if my difference check is so unbelievable when you have a matching world view

Idc what you call it, poe, difference check, does not matter

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I clowned you for acting as if my difference check is so unbelievable when you have a matching world view

Idc what you call it, poe, difference check, does not matter

So is Marmot a town read?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I clowned you for acting as if my difference check is so unbelievable when you have a matching world view

Idc what you call it, poe, difference check, does not matter

So is Marmot a town read?

Not particularly

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I clowned you for acting as if my difference check is so unbelievable when you have a matching world view

Idc what you call it, poe, difference check, does not matter

So is Marmot a town read?

Not particularly

That's my confusion. If you have more than two suspects, your view of the game doesn't match mine, and I don't know how you end up with a difference check between Esooa and I instead of Marmot and I or Esooa and Marmot (indeed, as soon as a third name enters the equation, I'm not sure how POE alone produces a difference check).

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I clowned you for acting as if my difference check is so unbelievable when you have a matching world view

Idc what you call it, poe, difference check, does not matter

So is Marmot a town read?

Not particularly

That's my confusion. If you have more than two suspects, your view of the game doesn't match mine, and I don't know how you end up with a difference check between Esooa and I instead of Marmot and I or Esooa and Marmot (indeed, as soon as a third name enters the equation, I'm not sure how POE alone produces a difference check).

I dont particularly TR him, but im fine sheeping that read from you, you're more likely to be accurate than I am on him if you're town, and if you're mafia its irrelevant

I'm approaching this as only getting to have two cause I assume I will be the third lol

[Sabiplz]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME have u read my stuff on Esooa

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I've read all but a couple pages from d1

But I also dont remember it offhand lol. Ill reread it

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Ah yeah, I mean, idk, its fine, I'm not gonna argue against it, I dont find it particularly ai, I think esooa can look fairly sloppy as town when she's relatively low engagement in a game (i dont mean that as a knock, to be clear)

[Sabiplz]

Fair enough.

Now we just wait

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would love to hear what others think of recent dialogues. They're particularly pertinent to the current lead wagon and to Nanook as well.

[Sabiplz]

► Show Spoiler

Thinking on it, I feel less concerned about Alison's posts around Lucy, because the fact she ain't voted and is refusing to play D1 is really beginning to grate on me.

I'd give myself good odds of voting her some tomorrow out of spite.

You sign up, you play the damn game. That means you vote, make reads, whatever.

As we lurch towards a damp squib EOD killing the person I suspect, the doubts have begun to creep in (few defenders, could be misreading, wolves taking an easy D1). But the days are short and this is what we have to work with. Not like many of the counter votes are agreeable.

Hope I'm right!

Why does you beginning to be more/less grated by Lucy make Alison's posts more towny? I don't really get it

Also, I've thought about the few defenders thing a bit irt maybe not Lucy, maybe not Sparkles, but really if they're a wolf then they have 1 partner who may defend them and it's just not really going to sway me thinking about it like that.

Can you talk a bit more about why you think Sparkles is wolfy? Tbh, none of their content in particular I've had an issue with. I know you gave general reasons earlier but when I read them I didn't really get anything out of it, didn't connect it to their posts I guess. But the biggest problem I could say I have with Sparkles right now is when I've played with them as town before, they've really annoyed me by doing very vocal and very wack pushes, but their reads this game seemed a fair bit more reserved and sensible even under pressure.

I was thinking Nanook could be her partner just cause he hasn't really done anything. His post saying that someone reads list was 'really boring' kinda stuck out to me in a time where I was wondering who's actually defending Lucy/Sparkles/etc and... well, in a world Nanook+1 of them is a wolf, it certainly is boring, and that certainly would be a way to at least try and get an edge in against it. But I mean, it's also kinda true it's boring and I've had thoughts like that as town so I didn't wanna push it or think of it so much as wolfy. Still is a thing though.

Since I'm typing, personally I think Alison's pushes have all made sense coming from her, and the way she's moved off things she's been pushing prior is actually good imo, contrary to what I've read a few times in thread. She's giving thoughts, realizing they're not valid because of something or changing her mind on the read, and changing pretty readily. I don't really see her pushing the envelope on anything or stretching reasoning for her thoughts at all, so I have no issue with it and think she's probably town for it. I haven't really been paying as much attention as I should be to say she's 100% town but I'm confident enough in it.

As for Wilgy I agree with what JJJ and some others has said. He's active, he's contributing, and realistically it probably means he's town. But it's a read I'd be willing to budge on. I think outside of just posting a lot though, he's had good curiosity in some things

One thing that's interesting though, mentioning JJJ, is while I think he's done a lot of things that I agree with/same kinda end point as me, I don't really find him towny at all. I don't know why, maybe I just don't know how to read him or have poor expectations, and I think very possibly so, but I just don't really care that much about anything he's said since early day 1. I haven't really felt like he's pushed the game along that much in a positive direction save for some unique thoughts early day 1 (when I'd value it the least), saying that I guess the game hasn't really felt like it's moved at all to me today so that could be a point against the idea, but still. I'm just not feeling it irt him.

Falcon is a read I could explain if I really wanted to, but I don't really. He's just Falcon. Every game I've ever seen him in people always go ??? at things he says, and sometimes if they don't know him too well they push him for it, but at the end of the day people like Alison and myself are right on him almost all the time. I've had a few games where he slips by a bit longer as a wolf, and I think once every I ML'd him while he wasn't doing that much compared to his normal games (could be remembering wrong), but this game in particular I think he's being especially town-falcon-y with his really weird logic that he obviously believes in. Things like earlier when he wolf read someone for mentioning post cap as a way to make there be less posts, really weird logic imo, but then a bit after I posted "I think everyone should stop posting" and he said it was wolfy and put me in his wolf reads. That's the kinda thing you just see from town Falcon every game and he's been executing on it like expected.

I can't remember other names right now and I've typed enough

Finished reading day 1. I'm kinda tired of reading posts so I skimmed/wasn't absorbing much of the EoD, but should be fine

anne - will talk about more after, generally pretty whelmed by her posts but I've liked it more than not. The biggest thing for me was her SPF read about big posts, where she posted it going like "the scummiest thing about spf is her post size," was pressured on it and said it wasn't really serious, then after being pressured a little more explains the read with like 2 decent paragraphs. It's a read that I've had on SPF before too so I kinda understand it, but mostly I think the treatment of shirking on the read by saying it's not really serious but actually having the opinion (cause she explained it and seemed decently serious) makes me think it's just genuine, it's something I've felt a lot where I'm like "yeah I don't really want to give this read cause people won't like me for it so it's just kinda a joke"

cassandra - Talked about for the most part, I thought while reading EoD briefly that her thread positioning fits a wolf who's just kinda riding consensus (which I do think is a problem right now) which also would involve going with the flow and bussing JJJ day 1, but her posts really just don't read like a bus. Even if Alexa was intending to deep wolf this game which isn't really implausible imo, I doubt she ever goes out of her way to get a partner killed when he wasn't really in contention that EoD until she talked about him a lot

DrWilgy - honestly got close to nothing from his day 1 posts. He's posted a few decently lucid thoughts this day phase that I liked, but I don't really know how he plays as wolf. Everything I've seen from him seems in line with his town games from before, though. The biggest problem I have with him is mostly other peoples posting about him, lol. People saying "the MR shot was good for him"

Like, it was on a towny, and it's not rly like he's just going to out to shoot someone outer PoE imo. Radishes is also someone who can contribute pretty well but is also a low accountability kill, like I think it's a scummier kill than not tbh.

Though I just remembered specifically his posting about calling Anne town, that was pretty good and I generally agree with the thoughts, would add those to my reasons to town read Anne

Dyslexicon - Liked their vibes but their recent reads list really pinged me

They read all of day 1 and just dropped a PoE going "Mac Anne Esooa" and it made me really just go like

This is actually just the consensus PoE for the past 24 hours and no one has cared, like hello pls why is this a thing

Particularly don't like it irt mostly in annoyance because I think I'm PoE only for being a sub, but I think it's a pretty good demonstration of what I mean. I have 88 posts in 24 hours already and I still feel like I'm being treated as a nothing slot and nobody really cares that much about my placement, the people who really do I think are decently likely town regardless. And the same thing is being done with Mac/Anne where they're just... existing as PoE and nothing is being done about it. No one's being pushed, Anne has been decently wagoned but there's no one really convicted she's a wolf, it's just kinda like.. yeah she's vaguely scummy, and votes are just placed on her

I think especially because I'm town and no one is taking any interest in movement it decently raises the others chances of being town, btw, but I digress, going back to Dizzy;

The way they engaged with the reads just felt shitty and made the thread state particularly hit me. They read day 1, which like yeah that's good, but then afterwards just dropped their fully consensus PoE with no real interest in actually solving these slots. I've posted around Dizzy a few times and liked that we had similar thoughts, but they don't even seem to have registered that fact. They said "Mac's day 1 was pretty lackluster, hope he picks it up day 2," but doesn't talk about or investigate his day 2 at all. The drive to solve from Dizzy just feels non-existent and I really didn't like it

I was gonna say their recent clap back against Illario was good, though, mostly for it feeling like a kinda towny "get the fuck off me," while I think wolf Dizzy would indeed be more of a smooth talker/etc, but I dunno I'm feeling they're decently wolfy now, prob just going to say they're null becuase idk about the Marmot interactions and think Marmot is decently wolfy

falcon45ca - Pretty confident he's town, like very. Green checked by Mac which I agree isn't ever w/w (his wolf equity probably actually increases if Mac is town cause I still kinda feel like the check is fake) but mostly has just been genuinely towny in giving like, hard hitting reads lol, as in when he explains his wolf reads they just have good conviction, and he pushes on things with determination the way he does as town, etc.

iaafr - Probs town. Had some slight paranoia from reading EoD he could be a wolf because his JJJ vote seemingly came out of no where, but I possibly just don't remember his previous stance on JJJ. I think the way he flip flopped on the read still is good but doubtfully hard clearing just cause I've pointed out this thing before and there's enough people with "iaafr meta" that I think he'd possibly be aware enough to try and subvert it like he did, more leaning to town still though. Generally just based on vibes, way he's posting, so I don't have a specific "this is town" thing from him. Some random thoughts on him I put down cause why not are that I actually did really like the way he approach SPF, he mentioned to me in DM's recently that he thinks SPF has very AI openers, and without me in the game too he brings out this read in specific about SPF, paying specific attention to her opener. Another thing I liked was the way he defended Nutella but didn't want to commit to it mostly because it reminds me of his thoughts about Limestone from a previous game, though I'm kinda eh on that particular read as the days gone longer

ilario/leetic - getting town vibes from both atm. Leetic is funny to me but the way he's pushing things seems more like a towny committed to their processes than a wolf trying to be obtuse to sow division, particularly got this feeling around EoD1. I haven't cared to read either much but Illario has just been really towny imo. Approach to NAA was good, like saying a player is mafia because they're town siding too much. Biggest thing I have in his favor was from EoD1 when he was like "why is (x person, I forgot) a wagon, I hope I get night killed."

Classic Illario town moment

Lime Coke - honestly haven't really been trying to solve him at all. His recent posts about "this day phase is weird" have made me :? slightly because he's mentioned it a few times but hasn't even talked about and is just... saying it. I also just kinda find the posts funny because NAA was saying he always goes into lost mode as town mid-game lmao but yea. People are generally reading him town, I'm fine with it don't care, if he lives another day or two will just ISO then and be able to get a decently confident read probably

MacDougall - think Mac is more likely town than not. Usually when I see him try to dig himself out of holes as mafia he does it more so trying to emulate his town style. Posting reads off the cuff, throwing his ego around, kinda thing. He's done some of the ego stuff but not as much, and the biggest response to pressure from him was just writing a big iaafr case that I liked the spontaneity of and I don't particularly think he'd be casing iaafr here as a wolf cause just.. why

Tbh, thinking this is less strong of a reason than I had in my head now that I write it out though. I do agree that sitting around doing nothing comes from wolf Mac a lot more often than town Mac, too, so yeah.

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

I kinda thought his response to pressure earlier was wolfy, I don't know how much I care about that now. Not much but I may as well mention

Basically he was pretty aggro about wolf reads on him, calling them really bad, but then he immediately switched into like, cooperative mode, going "I don't think this day phase has been going in a good direction for town, we need to come together to fix the problem." It just felt skeevy but meh

NotAnAxehole - I think he's had a few towny posts but I'm going back and forth on him. I guess he's PoE, but not really a priority at all. His post earlier about me not having thoughts on spew from the wolf was good, mostly because in one of the most previous games we played I read his spew pretty in depth to push his wolf partner Alison, so it makes sense he's expecting me to look at those kinda things again. It's mostly a minor point, though. He had some posts day 1 that were like, snap read kinda things, just posting thoughts on a fair few things in quick succession. I could be wrong about this because I didn't read much of backwards mafia where he was a wolf, but I recall his reads being a lot more formulaic/stilted in that game, not as flowy as there.

I think by far the worst part about NAA is his JJJ read. He talked a lot about JJJ, and basically seemed to put a strong emphasis on JJJ's influence in his game, but at the same time claimed... no read on him. I don't really understand how you can not have a read on someone who's a focal point of your game, and it felt like an excuse more than anything. I also think him being on the wagon is actually bad considering his earlier stuff in the EoD about not voting JJJ

nutella - have felt like she's slightly towny in terms of her reads. Have some minor gripes but meh. I think the pressure against her SoD2 was jumped on by a wolf, which helps, tbh I don't remember who all did that but I know Marmot did at least which I didn't like, lol. I do agree with Iaafr's opinion that Nutella's posts about JJJ don't look partnered but I kinda expected more? Like the one Dizzy quoted earlier and said they liked was good, but I didn't really see much else from Nutella about JJJ that I went like "yeah this is someone without TMI on JJJ"

I also just barely lost to wolf!Alexa due to associative reads lol, (Gira was the one who pulled the trigger on that but I was thinking the same while alive), and kinda was thinking after seeing that, that I shouldn't be clearing partners off of like... individual posts that can really intentionally be wifomy. Nutella's thoughts about JJJ extend past one post but not significantly.

Do agree that her having no tunnels is a bit but eh. Town leaning her

staypositivefriend - Pretty conflicted on SPF this game which I don't like, leaning her wolf though. I have a lot of stuff that I'd need to pull posts for that I don't really want to do right now because I've spent a lot of time writing this but basically, I don't really agree with Alexa that SPF's EoD was that good. She did venture off the wagons temporarily that led to JJJ being in contention, but I don't think "I don't want to kill JJJ today" is something SPF wouldn't be able to post as a wolf. It's like, not that hard to think as a wolf considering it's a pretty common thought, and she did a few things I didn't like EoD. Immediately after saying she thought JJJ was wolfy but she didn't want to kill him that day, she made a really, really really wolfy post; I'm actually going to go find it.

i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

So, in the first paragraph she says "I would be lying if I said that I've gotten anything AI out of (Wilgys) posts"

But then immediately after goes,

then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

while saying something he's done that's wolfy. Saying, like, someone is null to you (the first paragraph), then going into "but here's something they've done that's wolfy actually, and I want them dead today" just reads so awful to me

Other random stuff I didn't like is like, her post earlier saying "I think this PoE from Mac was possibly made to wolf side,"

Which is such a weird sounding thought to begin with, but reading day 1 with that thought in mind I just go... really? Like, this Mac is making PoE's trying to hard wolf side?

He didn't do anything or push anything, and then a wolf died. I really don't think that's a wolf-siding Mac, wolf!Mac here is pretty obviously just doing nothing

I also disliked how disjointed SPF's EoD was. She threw out like.. 4 or 5 posts that were just paragraphs of her posting a thought, without much interaction. It all sounded rehearsed to me, too

I have the p403 is partnery from SPF I'm not gonna find it so there's that

Anyways what I was gonna write after all this is just stuff like, I think the gamestate rn is pretty bad just in the sense there's no real pushes and the votes on PoE are really consensus and basically no one cares, all the people who I see doing non-consensus stuff I think are town, and it's just not good imo

Current people I want to look into more are like, Marmot first of all, probably actually SPF second there, then Dizzy

Though this is a confusing amalgamation of people in terms of interactions but eh lmao

@JaggedJimmyJay
@Marmot @falcon45ca @DrWilgy

Can you look at these two posts and tell me what you get from those vs like this post

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6229364

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm reviewing Marmot at the moment, but I will take a look shortly Sabi.

Also, if you'd like the other kind of spoiler tag instead of the big white one, you can use [ spoiler ][ /spoiler ] tags instead of [ spoil ][ /spoil ] tags. Sometimes that'll make the stuff inside easier to read.

[falcon45ca]

► Show Spoiler

Thinking on it, I feel less concerned about Alison's posts around Lucy, because the fact she ain't voted and is refusing to play D1 is really beginning to grate on me.

I'd give myself good odds of voting her some tomorrow out of spite.

You sign up, you play the damn game. That means you vote, make reads, whatever.

As we lurch towards a damp squib EOD killing the person I suspect, the doubts have begun to creep in (few defenders, could be misreading, wolves taking an easy D1). But the days are short and this is what we have to work with. Not like many of the counter votes are agreeable.

Hope I'm right!

Why does you beginning to be more/less grated by Lucy make Alison's posts more towny? I don't really get it

Also, I've thought about the few defenders thing a bit irt maybe not Lucy, maybe not Sparkles, but really if they're a wolf then they have 1 partner who may defend them and it's just not really going to sway me thinking about it like that.

Can you talk a bit more about why you think Sparkles is wolfy? Tbh, none of their content in particular I've had an issue with. I know you gave general reasons earlier but when I read them I didn't really get anything out of it, didn't connect it to their posts I guess. But the biggest problem I could say I have with Sparkles right now is when I've played with them as town before, they've really annoyed me by doing very vocal and very wack pushes, but their reads this game seemed a fair bit more reserved and sensible even under pressure.

I was thinking Nanook could be her partner just cause he hasn't really done anything. His post saying that someone reads list was 'really boring' kinda stuck out to me in a time where I was wondering who's actually defending Lucy/Sparkles/etc and... well, in a world Nanook+1 of them is a wolf, it certainly is boring, and that certainly would be a way to at least try and get an edge in against it. But I mean, it's also kinda true it's boring and I've had thoughts like that as town so I didn't wanna push it or think of it so much as wolfy. Still is a thing though.

Since I'm typing, personally I think Alison's pushes have all made sense coming from her, and the way she's moved off things she's been pushing prior is actually good imo, contrary to what I've read a few times in thread. She's giving thoughts, realizing they're not valid because of something or changing her mind on the read, and changing pretty readily. I don't really see her pushing the envelope on anything or stretching reasoning for her thoughts at all, so I have no issue with it and think she's probably town for it. I haven't really been paying as much attention as I should be to say she's 100% town but I'm confident enough in it.

As for Wilgy I agree with what JJJ and some others has said. He's active, he's contributing, and realistically it probably means he's town. But it's a read I'd be willing to budge on. I think outside of just posting a lot though, he's had good curiosity in some things

One thing that's interesting though, mentioning JJJ, is while I think he's done a lot of things that I agree with/same kinda end point as me, I don't really find him towny at all. I don't know why, maybe I just don't know how to read him or have poor expectations, and I think very possibly so, but I just don't really care that much about anything he's said since early day 1. I haven't really felt like he's pushed the game along that much in a positive direction save for some unique thoughts early day 1 (when I'd value it the least), saying that I guess the game hasn't really felt like it's moved at all to me today so that could be a point against the idea, but still. I'm just not feeling it irt him.

Falcon is a read I could explain if I really wanted to, but I don't really. He's just Falcon. Every game I've ever seen him in people always go ??? at things he says, and sometimes if they don't know him too well they push him for it, but at the end of the day people like Alison and myself are right on him almost all the time. I've had a few games where he slips by a bit longer as a wolf, and I think once every I ML'd him while he wasn't doing that much compared to his normal games (could be remembering wrong), but this game in particular I think he's being especially town-falcon-y with his really weird logic that he obviously believes in. Things like earlier when he wolf read someone for mentioning post cap as a way to make there be less posts, really weird logic imo, but then a bit after I posted "I think everyone should stop posting" and he said it was wolfy and put me in his wolf reads. That's the kinda thing you just see from town Falcon every game and he's been executing on it like expected.

I can't remember other names right now and I've typed enough

Finished reading day 1. I'm kinda tired of reading posts so I skimmed/wasn't absorbing much of the EoD, but should be fine

anne - will talk about more after, generally pretty whelmed by her posts but I've liked it more than not. The biggest thing for me was her SPF read about big posts, where she posted it going like "the scummiest thing about spf is her post size," was pressured on it and said it wasn't really serious, then after being pressured a little more explains the read with like 2 decent paragraphs. It's a read that I've had on SPF before too so I kinda understand it, but mostly I think the treatment of shirking on the read by saying it's not really serious but actually having the opinion (cause she explained it and seemed decently serious) makes me think it's just genuine, it's something I've felt a lot where I'm like "yeah I don't really want to give this read cause people won't like me for it so it's just kinda a joke"

cassandra - Talked about for the most part, I thought while reading EoD briefly that her thread positioning fits a wolf who's just kinda riding consensus (which I do think is a problem right now) which also would involve going with the flow and bussing JJJ day 1, but her posts really just don't read like a bus. Even if Alexa was intending to deep wolf this game which isn't really implausible imo, I doubt she ever goes out of her way to get a partner killed when he wasn't really in contention that EoD until she talked about him a lot

DrWilgy - honestly got close to nothing from his day 1 posts. He's posted a few decently lucid thoughts this day phase that I liked, but I don't really know how he plays as wolf. Everything I've seen from him seems in line with his town games from before, though. The biggest problem I have with him is mostly other peoples posting about him, lol. People saying "the MR shot was good for him"

Like, it was on a towny, and it's not rly like he's just going to out to shoot someone outer PoE imo. Radishes is also someone who can contribute pretty well but is also a low accountability kill, like I think it's a scummier kill than not tbh.

Though I just remembered specifically his posting about calling Anne town, that was pretty good and I generally agree with the thoughts, would add those to my reasons to town read Anne

Dyslexicon - Liked their vibes but their recent reads list really pinged me

They read all of day 1 and just dropped a PoE going "Mac Anne Esooa" and it made me really just go like

This is actually just the consensus PoE for the past 24 hours and no one has cared, like hello pls why is this a thing

Particularly don't like it irt mostly in annoyance because I think I'm PoE only for being a sub, but I think it's a pretty good demonstration of what I mean. I have 88 posts in 24 hours already and I still feel like I'm being treated as a nothing slot and nobody really cares that much about my placement, the people who really do I think are decently likely town regardless. And the same thing is being done with Mac/Anne where they're just... existing as PoE and nothing is being done about it. No one's being pushed, Anne has been decently wagoned but there's no one really convicted she's a wolf, it's just kinda like.. yeah she's vaguely scummy, and votes are just placed on her

I think especially because I'm town and no one is taking any interest in movement it decently raises the others chances of being town, btw, but I digress, going back to Dizzy;

The way they engaged with the reads just felt shitty and made the thread state particularly hit me. They read day 1, which like yeah that's good, but then afterwards just dropped their fully consensus PoE with no real interest in actually solving these slots. I've posted around Dizzy a few times and liked that we had similar thoughts, but they don't even seem to have registered that fact. They said "Mac's day 1 was pretty lackluster, hope he picks it up day 2," but doesn't talk about or investigate his day 2 at all. The drive to solve from Dizzy just feels non-existent and I really didn't like it

I was gonna say their recent clap back against Illario was good, though, mostly for it feeling like a kinda towny "get the fuck off me," while I think wolf Dizzy would indeed be more of a smooth talker/etc, but I dunno I'm feeling they're decently wolfy now, prob just going to say they're null becuase idk about the Marmot interactions and think Marmot is decently wolfy

falcon45ca - Pretty confident he's town, like very. Green checked by Mac which I agree isn't ever w/w (his wolf equity probably actually increases if Mac is town cause I still kinda feel like the check is fake) but mostly has just been genuinely towny in giving like, hard hitting reads lol, as in when he explains his wolf reads they just have good conviction, and he pushes on things with determination the way he does as town, etc.

iaafr - Probs town. Had some slight paranoia from reading EoD he could be a wolf because his JJJ vote seemingly came out of no where, but I possibly just don't remember his previous stance on JJJ. I think the way he flip flopped on the read still is good but doubtfully hard clearing just cause I've pointed out this thing before and there's enough people with "iaafr meta" that I think he'd possibly be aware enough to try and subvert it like he did, more leaning to town still though. Generally just based on vibes, way he's posting, so I don't have a specific "this is town" thing from him. Some random thoughts on him I put down cause why not are that I actually did really like the way he approach SPF, he mentioned to me in DM's recently that he thinks SPF has very AI openers, and without me in the game too he brings out this read in specific about SPF, paying specific attention to her opener. Another thing I liked was the way he defended Nutella but didn't want to commit to it mostly because it reminds me of his thoughts about Limestone from a previous game, though I'm kinda eh on that particular read as the days gone longer

ilario/leetic - getting town vibes from both atm. Leetic is funny to me but the way he's pushing things seems more like a towny committed to their processes than a wolf trying to be obtuse to sow division, particularly got this feeling around EoD1. I haven't cared to read either much but Illario has just been really towny imo. Approach to NAA was good, like saying a player is mafia because they're town siding too much. Biggest thing I have in his favor was from EoD1 when he was like "why is (x person, I forgot) a wagon, I hope I get night killed."

Classic Illario town moment

Lime Coke - honestly haven't really been trying to solve him at all. His recent posts about "this day phase is weird" have made me :? slightly because he's mentioned it a few times but hasn't even talked about and is just... saying it. I also just kinda find the posts funny because NAA was saying he always goes into lost mode as town mid-game lmao but yea. People are generally reading him town, I'm fine with it don't care, if he lives another day or two will just ISO then and be able to get a decently confident read probably

MacDougall - think Mac is more likely town than not. Usually when I see him try to dig himself out of holes as mafia he does it more so trying to emulate his town style. Posting reads off the cuff, throwing his ego around, kinda thing. He's done some of the ego stuff but not as much, and the biggest response to pressure from him was just writing a big iaafr case that I liked the spontaneity of and I don't particularly think he'd be casing iaafr here as a wolf cause just.. why

Tbh, thinking this is less strong of a reason than I had in my head now that I write it out though. I do agree that sitting around doing nothing comes from wolf Mac a lot more often than town Mac, too, so yeah.

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

I kinda thought his response to pressure earlier was wolfy, I don't know how much I care about that now. Not much but I may as well mention

Basically he was pretty aggro about wolf reads on him, calling them really bad, but then he immediately switched into like, cooperative mode, going "I don't think this day phase has been going in a good direction for town, we need to come together to fix the problem." It just felt skeevy but meh

NotAnAxehole - I think he's had a few towny posts but I'm going back and forth on him. I guess he's PoE, but not really a priority at all. His post earlier about me not having thoughts on spew from the wolf was good, mostly because in one of the most previous games we played I read his spew pretty in depth to push his wolf partner Alison, so it makes sense he's expecting me to look at those kinda things again. It's mostly a minor point, though. He had some posts day 1 that were like, snap read kinda things, just posting thoughts on a fair few things in quick succession. I could be wrong about this because I didn't read much of backwards mafia where he was a wolf, but I recall his reads being a lot more formulaic/stilted in that game, not as flowy as there.

I think by far the worst part about NAA is his JJJ read. He talked a lot about JJJ, and basically seemed to put a strong emphasis on JJJ's influence in his game, but at the same time claimed... no read on him. I don't really understand how you can not have a read on someone who's a focal point of your game, and it felt like an excuse more than anything. I also think him being on the wagon is actually bad considering his earlier stuff in the EoD about not voting JJJ

nutella - have felt like she's slightly towny in terms of her reads. Have some minor gripes but meh. I think the pressure against her SoD2 was jumped on by a wolf, which helps, tbh I don't remember who all did that but I know Marmot did at least which I didn't like, lol. I do agree with Iaafr's opinion that Nutella's posts about JJJ don't look partnered but I kinda expected more? Like the one Dizzy quoted earlier and said they liked was good, but I didn't really see much else from Nutella about JJJ that I went like "yeah this is someone without TMI on JJJ"

I also just barely lost to wolf!Alexa due to associative reads lol, (Gira was the one who pulled the trigger on that but I was thinking the same while alive), and kinda was thinking after seeing that, that I shouldn't be clearing partners off of like... individual posts that can really intentionally be wifomy. Nutella's thoughts about JJJ extend past one post but not significantly.

Do agree that her having no tunnels is a bit but eh. Town leaning her

staypositivefriend - Pretty conflicted on SPF this game which I don't like, leaning her wolf though. I have a lot of stuff that I'd need to pull posts for that I don't really want to do right now because I've spent a lot of time writing this but basically, I don't really agree with Alexa that SPF's EoD was that good. She did venture off the wagons temporarily that led to JJJ being in contention, but I don't think "I don't want to kill JJJ today" is something SPF wouldn't be able to post as a wolf. It's like, not that hard to think as a wolf considering it's a pretty common thought, and she did a few things I didn't like EoD. Immediately after saying she thought JJJ was wolfy but she didn't want to kill him that day, she made a really, really really wolfy post; I'm actually going to go find it.

i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

So, in the first paragraph she says "I would be lying if I said that I've gotten anything AI out of (Wilgys) posts"

But then immediately after goes,

then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

while saying something he's done that's wolfy. Saying, like, someone is null to you (the first paragraph), then going into "but here's something they've done that's wolfy actually, and I want them dead today" just reads so awful to me

Other random stuff I didn't like is like, her post earlier saying "I think this PoE from Mac was possibly made to wolf side,"

Which is such a weird sounding thought to begin with, but reading day 1 with that thought in mind I just go... really? Like, this Mac is making PoE's trying to hard wolf side?

He didn't do anything or push anything, and then a wolf died. I really don't think that's a wolf-siding Mac, wolf!Mac here is pretty obviously just doing nothing

I also disliked how disjointed SPF's EoD was. She threw out like.. 4 or 5 posts that were just paragraphs of her posting a thought, without much interaction. It all sounded rehearsed to me, too

I have the p403 is partnery from SPF I'm not gonna find it so there's that

Anyways what I was gonna write after all this is just stuff like, I think the gamestate rn is pretty bad just in the sense there's no real pushes and the votes on PoE are really consensus and basically no one cares, all the people who I see doing non-consensus stuff I think are town, and it's just not good imo

Current people I want to look into more are like, Marmot first of all, probably actually SPF second there, then Dizzy

Though this is a confusing amalgamation of people in terms of interactions but eh lmao

@JaggedJimmyJay
@Marmot @falcon45ca @DrWilgy

Can you look at these two posts and tell me what you get from those vs like this post

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6229364

The MU post is more direct, succinct and appears to be more genuine solve attempt.

The other 2, particularly the second, are very meandery, and don't have near the same type of impact. They are excessive w/o doing a whole lot IMO

What was her flip in the MU game, and her flip in the 2nd post from Syndicate?

[falcon45ca]

Ah, 2nd one from Philo. I know that flip.



I'd be shocked if she's Maf in the MU game

[Sabiplz]

Ah, 2nd one from Philo. I know that flip.



I'd be shocked if she's Maf in the MU game

► Show Spoiler

syndicate one is maf and the mu one is town

[Sabiplz]

I'm reviewing Marmot at the moment, but I will take a look shortly Sabi.

Also, if you'd like the other kind of spoiler tag instead of the big white one, you can use [ spoiler ][ /spoiler ] tags instead of [ spoil ][ /spoil ] tags. Sometimes that'll make the stuff inside easier to read.

Thank you. Sorry about it being difficult to read.

[Esooa]

esooa on her alison reads:

Another point against Alison btw is I think she was very resistant to accepting Lucy's meta stuff when backed by like nanook or someone

That's probably an angle where wolf Alison is pushing things a bit more unreasonably than she i ought to be

Not sold on it though obviously

Also the thing where "she has a poe of two so it's towny" isn't really valid. Even if a wolf needs to push more people than that to win they don't have to today and Alison knows that

Also Lucy's vote reasoning last day phase was SUS imo

What made you put me back into your town list by the way?

Cause I think if you're a wolf you don't push Lucy as much

So Alison is wolf because shes being stubborn and hardcore tunneling.

alison is not a wolf because shes hardcore tunneling.

thats esooa flip flop and non consistent read on alison.

is there a reason why esooa would use the same reason to both sr/tr alison?

its not a genuine thought/belief.

Unfortunately my solving is just too good for you to understand

[Esooa]

But I'll try to help you figure out that uh

Context matters in a mafia game

The first point.. was talking about how she pushes Lucy a lot while sparkles was dying

The second.. talks about how she pushes Lucy a lot while she was already dead

Different things believe it or not

And for someone so obsess with my posts as you pretty interesting you miss the fact that

The LITERAL POST you bring up to say "no mention of OW here!" Is the same time I got a reason to scum read him then changed my mind on; his Allison read was weird and he ignored my engagement

[Esooa]

esooa on jjj/j3/jay

starts off sod2:

Alison's posts after EoD are weird, removing her from my town

Wilgy/Falcon/JJJ/Sabi/Marmot town

so out of the blue esooa gives jay a town read even tho through the game by this point she had him in the poe.

A WOLF DIED LMAO

[Esooa]

I've read enough bullshit bye

[Sabiplz]

I've read enough bullshit bye

Read the one comparing 836 to your Philo game and the vulture game post.

Tell me I'm wrong

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Reviewing Marmot

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I've seen variations of w!Wilgy but not this one

He's a Bluey birthday cake (aka town)

Marmot threw around some derpy RVS type votes before this, but I'd call this his first substantive contribution. It was a consensus view, and generally fine.

Spoiler: show

Falcon isn't lock town, but he's definitely more townie than not.

I find the contrast between him here and Gym Class amusing more than I find it AI btw

This is numerous posts later, and Marmot's content so far is a bit fluffier than I remembered. It's not devoid of content, but it's light. This one just reflects a starting point for a falcon read, and I'd like to follow its development.

Spoiler: show

Falcon dropping deep takes

I think everyone posting right now has shown at least flashes of towniness, though I think nanook's and Jay's would be the easiest to fake.

Don't want to kill any of you yet though

Okay there's some. This doesn't give clarity to the falcon read, but it's not hard to extract from the language (Marmot still seems to town read him). This the other views here are decent, inasmuch as Marmot is attentive to both broad gamestate (a holistic impression of "everyone posting") as well as individual level takes (e.g., Nanook and I have posted easily-faked content). I would expect town Marmot to give me early scrutiny especially.

Spoiler: show

Wilgy, it would be a dream come true for me if you were to receive a town role card in this game and then decide to just strangle the thread with your bare hands in a fit of vengeance for past mischops and recent quickhammers. Bare your teeth, boo.

This particular post from you Jay is the kind I would expect to see from scum Jay (and yes, also from town jay in some capacity). You've bolstered Wilgy up, but in a manner that might imbue confidence in him, which is exactly what you would want to do if you expect wilgy to be looking in all the wrong places for wolves (potentially with your help).

Unlike my point on nanook, I still think there's reasonable argument that you could be town, though I am wary.

That scrutiny continues. I would call the rationale a bit questionable, given that I am essentially a cheerleader and booster of confidence in every game I play. I don't necessarily fault Marmot for exploring it, and he did treat me with a level of nuance. Shrug.

Spoiler: show

I don't know what to make of this.

I don't think a town makes this play, there's never a need for it outside of ego. I do think a wolf attempts it trying to squeeze by following. Ye old thunderdome into "oh, me?"

A wolf all in this early though? Clever if the play is to widdle down the dome later and by presenting it early you can get out.

Yeah, a town Alison has never thunderdomed someone on page 3 before. That would be incredibly out of character. Normally she plays so passively in the early game. Hmm.

Have you considered that I am just a townie with a confident read? Why does there need to be ego involved?

Passive, no, but I'd expect you to bury Falcon, not establish a policy. Your question asking about my considerations is also faulty in that clearly in the post above I do so.

This however, I lean towards the replication of Ego. I did try to learn you last game going through your ISO twice just yesterday. There are immediate differences, I think.

I have never made an egoistical play in my entire mafia career. You don't know what ego is. It is not just having a confident read.

I have already buried Falcon. Now I am just getting others on board. You are weirdly reluctant to accept the policy of simply killing me if I am wrong on falcon. Why?

This is forum mafia, not LoL solo queue

Taking this argument to the point of saying that Wilgy doesn't know what ego is is rand scum for you imo, in that when you make a take, you argue it to the end, regardless of how you get there or the solidity of the take.

No offense but I have no idea what you are trying to say in any of these sentences. Please rephrase.

This might sound sarcastic, but it isn't.

This is a good use of selective phrasing to make your statement sound kind while also getting your exact point across.

Marmot wasn't shy about sticking his nose into this conflict and prodding Alison with gripes. I would agree that Alison suggesting Wilgy doesn't know what ego is was incorrect, and perhaps also not super useful to the game. I'm not sure I agree that it's ">rand scum" for Alison, who will harp on her principles regardless of circumstance. This whole dialogue feels like nitpicking to me from everyone involved, so meh.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: misssparkles] aubergine

I miss you and you be woofin

Including for context.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

The more I think about it the more I realize that there is no fucking way you are scumreading me in good faith for making bold claims and arguing them to the bitter end. You have interacted with me in politics chat, mafia spectator chat, and within mafia games. I have never once backed down on a position or accepted anything other than cold absolutism. It is simply unbelievable for you to think it is >rand wolf for me to tell Wilgy he does not know what ego is.

Good point, you do it in spec chat. I don't recall if you do it as town or not, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I think specifically the point that "wilgy doesn't know what ego is" is the poor logic jump you made in your original post. It's probably wrong, and even if it's right, Wilgy making one inaccurate observation about your ego isn't sufficient to make that claim. That's the point I still have a qualm with.

He made an observation that would only be coherent if he did not know what efo is. Simple as.

Hard disagree

For at least a time, Alison was anti-Marmot on the basis of the previous exchange.

Spoiler: show

im slightly upset than that marmot is wasting his vote on me rn rather than voting Alison, i found it odd he isnt, maybe he doesnt want too eliminate a possible pairing early aka him and alison early on as scum which would be smart and kinda explains the vote on me more.

This is actually why im voting you lol, expressing sadness to get others to do a thing you want them to do.

You did the same thing when you expressed sadness to falcon because he hasn't changed his pfp.

You also did it when you used sad panda emotes to get nook to work with you


It's a form of AtE that is perfectly acceptable, but imo manipulative.

This interaction with Sparkles still strikes me as unpaired, particularly given how it continued later when I questioned Sparkles about the "manipulation".

Spoiler: show

lucy's most recent post is AI.

I have a read.

no it isn’t, could write that as either alignment

What about this one?

yes this one, because i just wrote it as this one

confidence in said read strengthening

I'm not sure what Marmot's initial read was here (some later posts imply suspicion), but that could use some clarity.

Spoiler: show

Not voting OW. Much of their content came after Wilgy voted them, nanook is just sheeping wilgys vote, and lucy doesn't have Day 1 scumreads, so I don't like the wagon composition

Keeping my vote on sparkles.

Marmot explicitly rejected the outed wolf wagon close to EOD. I think that had Marmot moved from Sparkles to outed wolf, it'd have tied them at 4-4. That would pose a risk to hypothetical mafia Marmot, and it may call for a careful reception of this moment. It's still a good thing at face value.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: ow] aubergine

This vote looks terrible, especially given Nanook didn't talk about OW once all day lol


[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

starting here

[VOTE: lucy] aubergine

Alison proposed a thunderdome between the two of them, and it looks like lucy refused. Lucy may not scumread Alison, but she doesn't appear to scumread anyone right now. She is mentioning other names and pointing Alison and others in other directions, and proposing theories in the thread, but not doing much with it.

Marmot's initial Day 2 suspicions were in alignment with general consensus. Given that numerous people adopted these takes, it is difficult to take a ton from that -- but we can still make a judgment of the rationale. Calling Nanook's vote "terrible" is a pretty easy criticism. The take on lucy is rather beige as well, so I wouldn't call this super inspired.

I actually like the follow-up more despite its brevity, when Marmot collected lucy's gripes with Esooa and just said "nah". That reads more authentically.

Spoiler: show

The voters on Lucy's wagon spell LAME, and that's what it feels like right now tbh

I'm gonna make coffee and then actually open up some ISOs.

What's the difference? And why does it matter if she is telling people that?

I'm too hungover to go through and post her ate from the vulture game.

Because there's no scum motivation for this and also goes against her wincon if she's scum.

The motivation of all scum ATE is to get people to stop voting them.

She hasn't asked anyone but you to stop voting her. She's asking everyone to not vote you.

What is the scum motivation

She seems convinced that mafia bussed Sparkles, and therefore esooa and myself (her other two voters) are POE'd.

I don't agree with her. Well, I do agree that esooa would be the most likely bus vote on the Sparkles wagon, but I don't agree that is necessarily how Sparkles' partner handled her, nor that is the first place we should look.

Lucy stated that it is logical that the wolf bussed Sparkles. I disagree. The wolves would not want to lose their only partner on Day 1. They would logically want to push elsewhere and not leave their partner to try and endgame alone. The wolves had a 64.6% chance of winning on Day 1, and they now have a 40.6% chance of winning.

In the first post Marmot implied that the lucy wagon was feeling "lame", i.e. stale, and that he wanted to look into ISOs. In the midst of that workload, he posted a few more times about lucy, continuing in a negative theme. Granted: that negativity surrounds gamestate disagreement rather than suspicion. The value of this moment will depend upon what work is produced.

Marmot ISOed me (follow-up) with positive remarks. I had drawn some amount of suspicion, and he felt it pertinent to dig in and interact with that somehow. I think his effort in this moment is pretty similar to what I am doing right now in reviewing Marmot himself, so that's a nice thing. It's not just the effort to dig up posts, but rather it's the motivation behind that effort.

Spoiler: show

My POE is trending towards just lucy.

After exploring the notion of the lucy wagon being lame, he ended up here. I think that seems pretty organic, and it certainly leaves him with a narrow window to operate as a mafioso. It's not impossible for mafia to play within a tight POE of their own creation, but surviving that way does tend to demand some kind of plan. I'm not sure that I see one for Marmot.

This post is already too big, so I'm going to stop. This gives a thorough perspective on Marmot's play through the first two days.

I wouldn't call this an entirely sterling review without questions. Indeed, at points I found myself challenged to come to a strong opinion. In that way, much of what I had to say (positive or negative) felt like reaching for an interpretation that wasn't necessarily the interpretation. Still, when I did really feel something, it tended to be on the positive side of business -- particularly in Marmot's handling of Sparkles and vice versa as well as his early-game examination of my play.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thank you. Sorry about it being difficult to read.

No worries. It's weird that we have two different kinds of spoilers.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Can you look at these two posts and tell me what you get from those vs like this post

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6229364

The differences seem to be degree of explanation and assertiveness of tone. She was frank and to the point in the MU case, and dedicated a whole bunch more words to making less concrete reads in each of the Syndicate cases. I'd be more comfortable with a larger sample of meta for things like this, but your point is well-received.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Sabiplz any thoughts on my last exchange with Nanook?

[Sabiplz]

@Sabiplz any thoughts on my last exchange with Nanook?

Nook seemed annoyed but that's NAI for him.

It just seemed like a misunderstanding on both sides.

Idk nothing really stood out for me.

[Sabiplz]

I rather not search more of her games for a larger sample.

I did enough effort this game.

Going back to uwu im town potatoe uwu mode

[DrWilgy]

do two uwus make an owo?

[Sabiplz]

do two uwus make an owo?

Yes.

Thoughts on the two examples I showed @DrWilgy

[DrWilgy]

do two uwus make an owo?

Yes.

Thoughts on the two examples I showed @DrWilgy

too dark to read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

[Sabiplz]

Spoiler: show

Thinking on it, I feel less concerned about Alison's posts around Lucy, because the fact she ain't voted and is refusing to play D1 is really beginning to grate on me.

I'd give myself good odds of voting her some tomorrow out of spite.

You sign up, you play the damn game. That means you vote, make reads, whatever.

As we lurch towards a damp squib EOD killing the person I suspect, the doubts have begun to creep in (few defenders, could be misreading, wolves taking an easy D1). But the days are short and this is what we have to work with. Not like many of the counter votes are agreeable.

Hope I'm right!

Why does you beginning to be more/less grated by Lucy make Alison's posts more towny? I don't really get it

Also, I've thought about the few defenders thing a bit irt maybe not Lucy, maybe not Sparkles, but really if they're a wolf then they have 1 partner who may defend them and it's just not really going to sway me thinking about it like that.

Can you talk a bit more about why you think Sparkles is wolfy? Tbh, none of their content in particular I've had an issue with. I know you gave general reasons earlier but when I read them I didn't really get anything out of it, didn't connect it to their posts I guess. But the biggest problem I could say I have with Sparkles right now is when I've played with them as town before, they've really annoyed me by doing very vocal and very wack pushes, but their reads this game seemed a fair bit more reserved and sensible even under pressure.

I was thinking Nanook could be her partner just cause he hasn't really done anything. His post saying that someone reads list was 'really boring' kinda stuck out to me in a time where I was wondering who's actually defending Lucy/Sparkles/etc and... well, in a world Nanook+1 of them is a wolf, it certainly is boring, and that certainly would be a way to at least try and get an edge in against it. But I mean, it's also kinda true it's boring and I've had thoughts like that as town so I didn't wanna push it or think of it so much as wolfy. Still is a thing though.

Since I'm typing, personally I think Alison's pushes have all made sense coming from her, and the way she's moved off things she's been pushing prior is actually good imo, contrary to what I've read a few times in thread. She's giving thoughts, realizing they're not valid because of something or changing her mind on the read, and changing pretty readily. I don't really see her pushing the envelope on anything or stretching reasoning for her thoughts at all, so I have no issue with it and think she's probably town for it. I haven't really been paying as much attention as I should be to say she's 100% town but I'm confident enough in it.

As for Wilgy I agree with what JJJ and some others has said. He's active, he's contributing, and realistically it probably means he's town. But it's a read I'd be willing to budge on. I think outside of just posting a lot though, he's had good curiosity in some things

One thing that's interesting though, mentioning JJJ, is while I think he's done a lot of things that I agree with/same kinda end point as me, I don't really find him towny at all. I don't know why, maybe I just don't know how to read him or have poor expectations, and I think very possibly so, but I just don't really care that much about anything he's said since early day 1. I haven't really felt like he's pushed the game along that much in a positive direction save for some unique thoughts early day 1 (when I'd value it the least), saying that I guess the game hasn't really felt like it's moved at all to me today so that could be a point against the idea, but still. I'm just not feeling it irt him.

Falcon is a read I could explain if I really wanted to, but I don't really. He's just Falcon. Every game I've ever seen him in people always go ??? at things he says, and sometimes if they don't know him too well they push him for it, but at the end of the day people like Alison and myself are right on him almost all the time. I've had a few games where he slips by a bit longer as a wolf, and I think once every I ML'd him while he wasn't doing that much compared to his normal games (could be remembering wrong), but this game in particular I think he's being especially town-falcon-y with his really weird logic that he obviously believes in. Things like earlier when he wolf read someone for mentioning post cap as a way to make there be less posts, really weird logic imo, but then a bit after I posted "I think everyone should stop posting" and he said it was wolfy and put me in his wolf reads. That's the kinda thing you just see from town Falcon every game and he's been executing on it like expected.

I can't remember other names right now and I've typed enough

Finished reading day 1. I'm kinda tired of reading posts so I skimmed/wasn't absorbing much of the EoD, but should be fine

anne - will talk about more after, generally pretty whelmed by her posts but I've liked it more than not. The biggest thing for me was her SPF read about big posts, where she posted it going like "the scummiest thing about spf is her post size," was pressured on it and said it wasn't really serious, then after being pressured a little more explains the read with like 2 decent paragraphs. It's a read that I've had on SPF before too so I kinda understand it, but mostly I think the treatment of shirking on the read by saying it's not really serious but actually having the opinion (cause she explained it and seemed decently serious) makes me think it's just genuine, it's something I've felt a lot where I'm like "yeah I don't really want to give this read cause people won't like me for it so it's just kinda a joke"

cassandra - Talked about for the most part, I thought while reading EoD briefly that her thread positioning fits a wolf who's just kinda riding consensus (which I do think is a problem right now) which also would involve going with the flow and bussing JJJ day 1, but her posts really just don't read like a bus. Even if Alexa was intending to deep wolf this game which isn't really implausible imo, I doubt she ever goes out of her way to get a partner killed when he wasn't really in contention that EoD until she talked about him a lot

DrWilgy - honestly got close to nothing from his day 1 posts. He's posted a few decently lucid thoughts this day phase that I liked, but I don't really know how he plays as wolf. Everything I've seen from him seems in line with his town games from before, though. The biggest problem I have with him is mostly other peoples posting about him, lol. People saying "the MR shot was good for him"

Like, it was on a towny, and it's not rly like he's just going to out to shoot someone outer PoE imo. Radishes is also someone who can contribute pretty well but is also a low accountability kill, like I think it's a scummier kill than not tbh.

Though I just remembered specifically his posting about calling Anne town, that was pretty good and I generally agree with the thoughts, would add those to my reasons to town read Anne

Dyslexicon - Liked their vibes but their recent reads list really pinged me

They read all of day 1 and just dropped a PoE going "Mac Anne Esooa" and it made me really just go like

This is actually just the consensus PoE for the past 24 hours and no one has cared, like hello pls why is this a thing

Particularly don't like it irt mostly in annoyance because I think I'm PoE only for being a sub, but I think it's a pretty good demonstration of what I mean. I have 88 posts in 24 hours already and I still feel like I'm being treated as a nothing slot and nobody really cares that much about my placement, the people who really do I think are decently likely town regardless. And the same thing is being done with Mac/Anne where they're just... existing as PoE and nothing is being done about it. No one's being pushed, Anne has been decently wagoned but there's no one really convicted she's a wolf, it's just kinda like.. yeah she's vaguely scummy, and votes are just placed on her

I think especially because I'm town and no one is taking any interest in movement it decently raises the others chances of being town, btw, but I digress, going back to Dizzy;

The way they engaged with the reads just felt shitty and made the thread state particularly hit me. They read day 1, which like yeah that's good, but then afterwards just dropped their fully consensus PoE with no real interest in actually solving these slots. I've posted around Dizzy a few times and liked that we had similar thoughts, but they don't even seem to have registered that fact. They said "Mac's day 1 was pretty lackluster, hope he picks it up day 2," but doesn't talk about or investigate his day 2 at all. The drive to solve from Dizzy just feels non-existent and I really didn't like it

I was gonna say their recent clap back against Illario was good, though, mostly for it feeling like a kinda towny "get the fuck off me," while I think wolf Dizzy would indeed be more of a smooth talker/etc, but I dunno I'm feeling they're decently wolfy now, prob just going to say they're null becuase idk about the Marmot interactions and think Marmot is decently wolfy

falcon45ca - Pretty confident he's town, like very. Green checked by Mac which I agree isn't ever w/w (his wolf equity probably actually increases if Mac is town cause I still kinda feel like the check is fake) but mostly has just been genuinely towny in giving like, hard hitting reads lol, as in when he explains his wolf reads they just have good conviction, and he pushes on things with determination the way he does as town, etc.

iaafr - Probs town. Had some slight paranoia from reading EoD he could be a wolf because his JJJ vote seemingly came out of no where, but I possibly just don't remember his previous stance on JJJ. I think the way he flip flopped on the read still is good but doubtfully hard clearing just cause I've pointed out this thing before and there's enough people with "iaafr meta" that I think he'd possibly be aware enough to try and subvert it like he did, more leaning to town still though. Generally just based on vibes, way he's posting, so I don't have a specific "this is town" thing from him. Some random thoughts on him I put down cause why not are that I actually did really like the way he approach SPF, he mentioned to me in DM's recently that he thinks SPF has very AI openers, and without me in the game too he brings out this read in specific about SPF, paying specific attention to her opener. Another thing I liked was the way he defended Nutella but didn't want to commit to it mostly because it reminds me of his thoughts about Limestone from a previous game, though I'm kinda eh on that particular read as the days gone longer

ilario/leetic - getting town vibes from both atm. Leetic is funny to me but the way he's pushing things seems more like a towny committed to their processes than a wolf trying to be obtuse to sow division, particularly got this feeling around EoD1. I haven't cared to read either much but Illario has just been really towny imo. Approach to NAA was good, like saying a player is mafia because they're town siding too much. Biggest thing I have in his favor was from EoD1 when he was like "why is (x person, I forgot) a wagon, I hope I get night killed."

Classic Illario town moment

Lime Coke - honestly haven't really been trying to solve him at all. His recent posts about "this day phase is weird" have made me :? slightly because he's mentioned it a few times but hasn't even talked about and is just... saying it. I also just kinda find the posts funny because NAA was saying he always goes into lost mode as town mid-game lmao but yea. People are generally reading him town, I'm fine with it don't care, if he lives another day or two will just ISO then and be able to get a decently confident read probably

MacDougall - think Mac is more likely town than not. Usually when I see him try to dig himself out of holes as mafia he does it more so trying to emulate his town style. Posting reads off the cuff, throwing his ego around, kinda thing. He's done some of the ego stuff but not as much, and the biggest response to pressure from him was just writing a big iaafr case that I liked the spontaneity of and I don't particularly think he'd be casing iaafr here as a wolf cause just.. why

Tbh, thinking this is less strong of a reason than I had in my head now that I write it out though. I do agree that sitting around doing nothing comes from wolf Mac a lot more often than town Mac, too, so yeah.

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

I kinda thought his response to pressure earlier was wolfy, I don't know how much I care about that now. Not much but I may as well mention

Basically he was pretty aggro about wolf reads on him, calling them really bad, but then he immediately switched into like, cooperative mode, going "I don't think this day phase has been going in a good direction for town, we need to come together to fix the problem." It just felt skeevy but meh

NotAnAxehole - I think he's had a few towny posts but I'm going back and forth on him. I guess he's PoE, but not really a priority at all. His post earlier about me not having thoughts on spew from the wolf was good, mostly because in one of the most previous games we played I read his spew pretty in depth to push his wolf partner Alison, so it makes sense he's expecting me to look at those kinda things again. It's mostly a minor point, though. He had some posts day 1 that were like, snap read kinda things, just posting thoughts on a fair few things in quick succession. I could be wrong about this because I didn't read much of backwards mafia where he was a wolf, but I recall his reads being a lot more formulaic/stilted in that game, not as flowy as there.

I think by far the worst part about NAA is his JJJ read. He talked a lot about JJJ, and basically seemed to put a strong emphasis on JJJ's influence in his game, but at the same time claimed... no read on him. I don't really understand how you can not have a read on someone who's a focal point of your game, and it felt like an excuse more than anything. I also think him being on the wagon is actually bad considering his earlier stuff in the EoD about not voting JJJ

nutella - have felt like she's slightly towny in terms of her reads. Have some minor gripes but meh. I think the pressure against her SoD2 was jumped on by a wolf, which helps, tbh I don't remember who all did that but I know Marmot did at least which I didn't like, lol. I do agree with Iaafr's opinion that Nutella's posts about JJJ don't look partnered but I kinda expected more? Like the one Dizzy quoted earlier and said they liked was good, but I didn't really see much else from Nutella about JJJ that I went like "yeah this is someone without TMI on JJJ"

I also just barely lost to wolf!Alexa due to associative reads lol, (Gira was the one who pulled the trigger on that but I was thinking the same while alive), and kinda was thinking after seeing that, that I shouldn't be clearing partners off of like... individual posts that can really intentionally be wifomy. Nutella's thoughts about JJJ extend past one post but not significantly.

Do agree that her having no tunnels is a bit but eh. Town leaning her

staypositivefriend - Pretty conflicted on SPF this game which I don't like, leaning her wolf though. I have a lot of stuff that I'd need to pull posts for that I don't really want to do right now because I've spent a lot of time writing this but basically, I don't really agree with Alexa that SPF's EoD was that good. She did venture off the wagons temporarily that led to JJJ being in contention, but I don't think "I don't want to kill JJJ today" is something SPF wouldn't be able to post as a wolf. It's like, not that hard to think as a wolf considering it's a pretty common thought, and she did a few things I didn't like EoD. Immediately after saying she thought JJJ was wolfy but she didn't want to kill him that day, she made a really, really really wolfy post; I'm actually going to go find it.

i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

So, in the first paragraph she says "I would be lying if I said that I've gotten anything AI out of (Wilgys) posts"

But then immediately after goes,

then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

while saying something he's done that's wolfy. Saying, like, someone is null to you (the first paragraph), then going into "but here's something they've done that's wolfy actually, and I want them dead today" just reads so awful to me

Other random stuff I didn't like is like, her post earlier saying "I think this PoE from Mac was possibly made to wolf side,"

Which is such a weird sounding thought to begin with, but reading day 1 with that thought in mind I just go... really? Like, this Mac is making PoE's trying to hard wolf side?

He didn't do anything or push anything, and then a wolf died. I really don't think that's a wolf-siding Mac, wolf!Mac here is pretty obviously just doing nothing

I also disliked how disjointed SPF's EoD was. She threw out like.. 4 or 5 posts that were just paragraphs of her posting a thought, without much interaction. It all sounded rehearsed to me, too

I have the p403 is partnery from SPF I'm not gonna find it so there's that

Anyways what I was gonna write after all this is just stuff like, I think the gamestate rn is pretty bad just in the sense there's no real pushes and the votes on PoE are really consensus and basically no one cares, all the people who I see doing non-consensus stuff I think are town, and it's just not good imo

Current people I want to look into more are like, Marmot first of all, probably actually SPF second there, then Dizzy

Though this is a confusing amalgamation of people in terms of interactions but eh lmao

@JaggedJimmyJay
@Marmot @falcon45ca @DrWilgy

Can you look at these two posts and tell me what you get from those vs like this post

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6229364

@DrWilgy how about now

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Esooa feels right. There’s room for me to have misinterpreted Nanook.

[Marmot]

Congrats @Marmot !!!!!!!!!!!

Your prodigal son bringing honor to yalls name

Thanks!!! I really appreciate it

Ok now back to this game

[Marmot]

► Show Spoiler

Thinking on it, I feel less concerned about Alison's posts around Lucy, because the fact she ain't voted and is refusing to play D1 is really beginning to grate on me.

I'd give myself good odds of voting her some tomorrow out of spite.

You sign up, you play the damn game. That means you vote, make reads, whatever.

As we lurch towards a damp squib EOD killing the person I suspect, the doubts have begun to creep in (few defenders, could be misreading, wolves taking an easy D1). But the days are short and this is what we have to work with. Not like many of the counter votes are agreeable.

Hope I'm right!

Why does you beginning to be more/less grated by Lucy make Alison's posts more towny? I don't really get it

Also, I've thought about the few defenders thing a bit irt maybe not Lucy, maybe not Sparkles, but really if they're a wolf then they have 1 partner who may defend them and it's just not really going to sway me thinking about it like that.

Can you talk a bit more about why you think Sparkles is wolfy? Tbh, none of their content in particular I've had an issue with. I know you gave general reasons earlier but when I read them I didn't really get anything out of it, didn't connect it to their posts I guess. But the biggest problem I could say I have with Sparkles right now is when I've played with them as town before, they've really annoyed me by doing very vocal and very wack pushes, but their reads this game seemed a fair bit more reserved and sensible even under pressure.

I was thinking Nanook could be her partner just cause he hasn't really done anything. His post saying that someone reads list was 'really boring' kinda stuck out to me in a time where I was wondering who's actually defending Lucy/Sparkles/etc and... well, in a world Nanook+1 of them is a wolf, it certainly is boring, and that certainly would be a way to at least try and get an edge in against it. But I mean, it's also kinda true it's boring and I've had thoughts like that as town so I didn't wanna push it or think of it so much as wolfy. Still is a thing though.

Since I'm typing, personally I think Alison's pushes have all made sense coming from her, and the way she's moved off things she's been pushing prior is actually good imo, contrary to what I've read a few times in thread. She's giving thoughts, realizing they're not valid because of something or changing her mind on the read, and changing pretty readily. I don't really see her pushing the envelope on anything or stretching reasoning for her thoughts at all, so I have no issue with it and think she's probably town for it. I haven't really been paying as much attention as I should be to say she's 100% town but I'm confident enough in it.

As for Wilgy I agree with what JJJ and some others has said. He's active, he's contributing, and realistically it probably means he's town. But it's a read I'd be willing to budge on. I think outside of just posting a lot though, he's had good curiosity in some things

One thing that's interesting though, mentioning JJJ, is while I think he's done a lot of things that I agree with/same kinda end point as me, I don't really find him towny at all. I don't know why, maybe I just don't know how to read him or have poor expectations, and I think very possibly so, but I just don't really care that much about anything he's said since early day 1. I haven't really felt like he's pushed the game along that much in a positive direction save for some unique thoughts early day 1 (when I'd value it the least), saying that I guess the game hasn't really felt like it's moved at all to me today so that could be a point against the idea, but still. I'm just not feeling it irt him.

Falcon is a read I could explain if I really wanted to, but I don't really. He's just Falcon. Every game I've ever seen him in people always go ??? at things he says, and sometimes if they don't know him too well they push him for it, but at the end of the day people like Alison and myself are right on him almost all the time. I've had a few games where he slips by a bit longer as a wolf, and I think once every I ML'd him while he wasn't doing that much compared to his normal games (could be remembering wrong), but this game in particular I think he's being especially town-falcon-y with his really weird logic that he obviously believes in. Things like earlier when he wolf read someone for mentioning post cap as a way to make there be less posts, really weird logic imo, but then a bit after I posted "I think everyone should stop posting" and he said it was wolfy and put me in his wolf reads. That's the kinda thing you just see from town Falcon every game and he's been executing on it like expected.

I can't remember other names right now and I've typed enough

Finished reading day 1. I'm kinda tired of reading posts so I skimmed/wasn't absorbing much of the EoD, but should be fine

anne - will talk about more after, generally pretty whelmed by her posts but I've liked it more than not. The biggest thing for me was her SPF read about big posts, where she posted it going like "the scummiest thing about spf is her post size," was pressured on it and said it wasn't really serious, then after being pressured a little more explains the read with like 2 decent paragraphs. It's a read that I've had on SPF before too so I kinda understand it, but mostly I think the treatment of shirking on the read by saying it's not really serious but actually having the opinion (cause she explained it and seemed decently serious) makes me think it's just genuine, it's something I've felt a lot where I'm like "yeah I don't really want to give this read cause people won't like me for it so it's just kinda a joke"

cassandra - Talked about for the most part, I thought while reading EoD briefly that her thread positioning fits a wolf who's just kinda riding consensus (which I do think is a problem right now) which also would involve going with the flow and bussing JJJ day 1, but her posts really just don't read like a bus. Even if Alexa was intending to deep wolf this game which isn't really implausible imo, I doubt she ever goes out of her way to get a partner killed when he wasn't really in contention that EoD until she talked about him a lot

DrWilgy - honestly got close to nothing from his day 1 posts. He's posted a few decently lucid thoughts this day phase that I liked, but I don't really know how he plays as wolf. Everything I've seen from him seems in line with his town games from before, though. The biggest problem I have with him is mostly other peoples posting about him, lol. People saying "the MR shot was good for him"

Like, it was on a towny, and it's not rly like he's just going to out to shoot someone outer PoE imo. Radishes is also someone who can contribute pretty well but is also a low accountability kill, like I think it's a scummier kill than not tbh.

Though I just remembered specifically his posting about calling Anne town, that was pretty good and I generally agree with the thoughts, would add those to my reasons to town read Anne

Dyslexicon - Liked their vibes but their recent reads list really pinged me

They read all of day 1 and just dropped a PoE going "Mac Anne Esooa" and it made me really just go like

This is actually just the consensus PoE for the past 24 hours and no one has cared, like hello pls why is this a thing

Particularly don't like it irt mostly in annoyance because I think I'm PoE only for being a sub, but I think it's a pretty good demonstration of what I mean. I have 88 posts in 24 hours already and I still feel like I'm being treated as a nothing slot and nobody really cares that much about my placement, the people who really do I think are decently likely town regardless. And the same thing is being done with Mac/Anne where they're just... existing as PoE and nothing is being done about it. No one's being pushed, Anne has been decently wagoned but there's no one really convicted she's a wolf, it's just kinda like.. yeah she's vaguely scummy, and votes are just placed on her

I think especially because I'm town and no one is taking any interest in movement it decently raises the others chances of being town, btw, but I digress, going back to Dizzy;

The way they engaged with the reads just felt shitty and made the thread state particularly hit me. They read day 1, which like yeah that's good, but then afterwards just dropped their fully consensus PoE with no real interest in actually solving these slots. I've posted around Dizzy a few times and liked that we had similar thoughts, but they don't even seem to have registered that fact. They said "Mac's day 1 was pretty lackluster, hope he picks it up day 2," but doesn't talk about or investigate his day 2 at all. The drive to solve from Dizzy just feels non-existent and I really didn't like it

I was gonna say their recent clap back against Illario was good, though, mostly for it feeling like a kinda towny "get the fuck off me," while I think wolf Dizzy would indeed be more of a smooth talker/etc, but I dunno I'm feeling they're decently wolfy now, prob just going to say they're null becuase idk about the Marmot interactions and think Marmot is decently wolfy

falcon45ca - Pretty confident he's town, like very. Green checked by Mac which I agree isn't ever w/w (his wolf equity probably actually increases if Mac is town cause I still kinda feel like the check is fake) but mostly has just been genuinely towny in giving like, hard hitting reads lol, as in when he explains his wolf reads they just have good conviction, and he pushes on things with determination the way he does as town, etc.

iaafr - Probs town. Had some slight paranoia from reading EoD he could be a wolf because his JJJ vote seemingly came out of no where, but I possibly just don't remember his previous stance on JJJ. I think the way he flip flopped on the read still is good but doubtfully hard clearing just cause I've pointed out this thing before and there's enough people with "iaafr meta" that I think he'd possibly be aware enough to try and subvert it like he did, more leaning to town still though. Generally just based on vibes, way he's posting, so I don't have a specific "this is town" thing from him. Some random thoughts on him I put down cause why not are that I actually did really like the way he approach SPF, he mentioned to me in DM's recently that he thinks SPF has very AI openers, and without me in the game too he brings out this read in specific about SPF, paying specific attention to her opener. Another thing I liked was the way he defended Nutella but didn't want to commit to it mostly because it reminds me of his thoughts about Limestone from a previous game, though I'm kinda eh on that particular read as the days gone longer

ilario/leetic - getting town vibes from both atm. Leetic is funny to me but the way he's pushing things seems more like a towny committed to their processes than a wolf trying to be obtuse to sow division, particularly got this feeling around EoD1. I haven't cared to read either much but Illario has just been really towny imo. Approach to NAA was good, like saying a player is mafia because they're town siding too much. Biggest thing I have in his favor was from EoD1 when he was like "why is (x person, I forgot) a wagon, I hope I get night killed."

Classic Illario town moment

Lime Coke - honestly haven't really been trying to solve him at all. His recent posts about "this day phase is weird" have made me :? slightly because he's mentioned it a few times but hasn't even talked about and is just... saying it. I also just kinda find the posts funny because NAA was saying he always goes into lost mode as town mid-game lmao but yea. People are generally reading him town, I'm fine with it don't care, if he lives another day or two will just ISO then and be able to get a decently confident read probably

MacDougall - think Mac is more likely town than not. Usually when I see him try to dig himself out of holes as mafia he does it more so trying to emulate his town style. Posting reads off the cuff, throwing his ego around, kinda thing. He's done some of the ego stuff but not as much, and the biggest response to pressure from him was just writing a big iaafr case that I liked the spontaneity of and I don't particularly think he'd be casing iaafr here as a wolf cause just.. why

Tbh, thinking this is less strong of a reason than I had in my head now that I write it out though. I do agree that sitting around doing nothing comes from wolf Mac a lot more often than town Mac, too, so yeah.

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

I kinda thought his response to pressure earlier was wolfy, I don't know how much I care about that now. Not much but I may as well mention

Basically he was pretty aggro about wolf reads on him, calling them really bad, but then he immediately switched into like, cooperative mode, going "I don't think this day phase has been going in a good direction for town, we need to come together to fix the problem." It just felt skeevy but meh

NotAnAxehole - I think he's had a few towny posts but I'm going back and forth on him. I guess he's PoE, but not really a priority at all. His post earlier about me not having thoughts on spew from the wolf was good, mostly because in one of the most previous games we played I read his spew pretty in depth to push his wolf partner Alison, so it makes sense he's expecting me to look at those kinda things again. It's mostly a minor point, though. He had some posts day 1 that were like, snap read kinda things, just posting thoughts on a fair few things in quick succession. I could be wrong about this because I didn't read much of backwards mafia where he was a wolf, but I recall his reads being a lot more formulaic/stilted in that game, not as flowy as there.

I think by far the worst part about NAA is his JJJ read. He talked a lot about JJJ, and basically seemed to put a strong emphasis on JJJ's influence in his game, but at the same time claimed... no read on him. I don't really understand how you can not have a read on someone who's a focal point of your game, and it felt like an excuse more than anything. I also think him being on the wagon is actually bad considering his earlier stuff in the EoD about not voting JJJ

nutella - have felt like she's slightly towny in terms of her reads. Have some minor gripes but meh. I think the pressure against her SoD2 was jumped on by a wolf, which helps, tbh I don't remember who all did that but I know Marmot did at least which I didn't like, lol. I do agree with Iaafr's opinion that Nutella's posts about JJJ don't look partnered but I kinda expected more? Like the one Dizzy quoted earlier and said they liked was good, but I didn't really see much else from Nutella about JJJ that I went like "yeah this is someone without TMI on JJJ"

I also just barely lost to wolf!Alexa due to associative reads lol, (Gira was the one who pulled the trigger on that but I was thinking the same while alive), and kinda was thinking after seeing that, that I shouldn't be clearing partners off of like... individual posts that can really intentionally be wifomy. Nutella's thoughts about JJJ extend past one post but not significantly.

Do agree that her having no tunnels is a bit but eh. Town leaning her

staypositivefriend - Pretty conflicted on SPF this game which I don't like, leaning her wolf though. I have a lot of stuff that I'd need to pull posts for that I don't really want to do right now because I've spent a lot of time writing this but basically, I don't really agree with Alexa that SPF's EoD was that good. She did venture off the wagons temporarily that led to JJJ being in contention, but I don't think "I don't want to kill JJJ today" is something SPF wouldn't be able to post as a wolf. It's like, not that hard to think as a wolf considering it's a pretty common thought, and she did a few things I didn't like EoD. Immediately after saying she thought JJJ was wolfy but she didn't want to kill him that day, she made a really, really really wolfy post; I'm actually going to go find it.

i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

So, in the first paragraph she says "I would be lying if I said that I've gotten anything AI out of (Wilgys) posts"

But then immediately after goes,

then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

while saying something he's done that's wolfy. Saying, like, someone is null to you (the first paragraph), then going into "but here's something they've done that's wolfy actually, and I want them dead today" just reads so awful to me

Other random stuff I didn't like is like, her post earlier saying "I think this PoE from Mac was possibly made to wolf side,"

Which is such a weird sounding thought to begin with, but reading day 1 with that thought in mind I just go... really? Like, this Mac is making PoE's trying to hard wolf side?

He didn't do anything or push anything, and then a wolf died. I really don't think that's a wolf-siding Mac, wolf!Mac here is pretty obviously just doing nothing

I also disliked how disjointed SPF's EoD was. She threw out like.. 4 or 5 posts that were just paragraphs of her posting a thought, without much interaction. It all sounded rehearsed to me, too

I have the p403 is partnery from SPF I'm not gonna find it so there's that

Anyways what I was gonna write after all this is just stuff like, I think the gamestate rn is pretty bad just in the sense there's no real pushes and the votes on PoE are really consensus and basically no one cares, all the people who I see doing non-consensus stuff I think are town, and it's just not good imo

Current people I want to look into more are like, Marmot first of all, probably actually SPF second there, then Dizzy

Though this is a confusing amalgamation of people in terms of interactions but eh lmao

@JaggedJimmyJay
@Marmot @falcon45ca @DrWilgy

Can you look at these two posts and tell me what you get from those vs like this post

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6229364

I was the one to point those out!

Did I compare them? No I forgot, will do that

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

Thinking on it, I feel less concerned about Alison's posts around Lucy, because the fact she ain't voted and is refusing to play D1 is really beginning to grate on me.

I'd give myself good odds of voting her some tomorrow out of spite.

You sign up, you play the damn game. That means you vote, make reads, whatever.

As we lurch towards a damp squib EOD killing the person I suspect, the doubts have begun to creep in (few defenders, could be misreading, wolves taking an easy D1). But the days are short and this is what we have to work with. Not like many of the counter votes are agreeable.

Hope I'm right!

Why does you beginning to be more/less grated by Lucy make Alison's posts more towny? I don't really get it

Also, I've thought about the few defenders thing a bit irt maybe not Lucy, maybe not Sparkles, but really if they're a wolf then they have 1 partner who may defend them and it's just not really going to sway me thinking about it like that.

Can you talk a bit more about why you think Sparkles is wolfy? Tbh, none of their content in particular I've had an issue with. I know you gave general reasons earlier but when I read them I didn't really get anything out of it, didn't connect it to their posts I guess. But the biggest problem I could say I have with Sparkles right now is when I've played with them as town before, they've really annoyed me by doing very vocal and very wack pushes, but their reads this game seemed a fair bit more reserved and sensible even under pressure.

I was thinking Nanook could be her partner just cause he hasn't really done anything. His post saying that someone reads list was 'really boring' kinda stuck out to me in a time where I was wondering who's actually defending Lucy/Sparkles/etc and... well, in a world Nanook+1 of them is a wolf, it certainly is boring, and that certainly would be a way to at least try and get an edge in against it. But I mean, it's also kinda true it's boring and I've had thoughts like that as town so I didn't wanna push it or think of it so much as wolfy. Still is a thing though.

Since I'm typing, personally I think Alison's pushes have all made sense coming from her, and the way she's moved off things she's been pushing prior is actually good imo, contrary to what I've read a few times in thread. She's giving thoughts, realizing they're not valid because of something or changing her mind on the read, and changing pretty readily. I don't really see her pushing the envelope on anything or stretching reasoning for her thoughts at all, so I have no issue with it and think she's probably town for it. I haven't really been paying as much attention as I should be to say she's 100% town but I'm confident enough in it.

As for Wilgy I agree with what JJJ and some others has said. He's active, he's contributing, and realistically it probably means he's town. But it's a read I'd be willing to budge on. I think outside of just posting a lot though, he's had good curiosity in some things

One thing that's interesting though, mentioning JJJ, is while I think he's done a lot of things that I agree with/same kinda end point as me, I don't really find him towny at all. I don't know why, maybe I just don't know how to read him or have poor expectations, and I think very possibly so, but I just don't really care that much about anything he's said since early day 1. I haven't really felt like he's pushed the game along that much in a positive direction save for some unique thoughts early day 1 (when I'd value it the least), saying that I guess the game hasn't really felt like it's moved at all to me today so that could be a point against the idea, but still. I'm just not feeling it irt him.

Falcon is a read I could explain if I really wanted to, but I don't really. He's just Falcon. Every game I've ever seen him in people always go ??? at things he says, and sometimes if they don't know him too well they push him for it, but at the end of the day people like Alison and myself are right on him almost all the time. I've had a few games where he slips by a bit longer as a wolf, and I think once every I ML'd him while he wasn't doing that much compared to his normal games (could be remembering wrong), but this game in particular I think he's being especially town-falcon-y with his really weird logic that he obviously believes in. Things like earlier when he wolf read someone for mentioning post cap as a way to make there be less posts, really weird logic imo, but then a bit after I posted "I think everyone should stop posting" and he said it was wolfy and put me in his wolf reads. That's the kinda thing you just see from town Falcon every game and he's been executing on it like expected.

I can't remember other names right now and I've typed enough

Finished reading day 1. I'm kinda tired of reading posts so I skimmed/wasn't absorbing much of the EoD, but should be fine

anne - will talk about more after, generally pretty whelmed by her posts but I've liked it more than not. The biggest thing for me was her SPF read about big posts, where she posted it going like "the scummiest thing about spf is her post size," was pressured on it and said it wasn't really serious, then after being pressured a little more explains the read with like 2 decent paragraphs. It's a read that I've had on SPF before too so I kinda understand it, but mostly I think the treatment of shirking on the read by saying it's not really serious but actually having the opinion (cause she explained it and seemed decently serious) makes me think it's just genuine, it's something I've felt a lot where I'm like "yeah I don't really want to give this read cause people won't like me for it so it's just kinda a joke"

cassandra - Talked about for the most part, I thought while reading EoD briefly that her thread positioning fits a wolf who's just kinda riding consensus (which I do think is a problem right now) which also would involve going with the flow and bussing JJJ day 1, but her posts really just don't read like a bus. Even if Alexa was intending to deep wolf this game which isn't really implausible imo, I doubt she ever goes out of her way to get a partner killed when he wasn't really in contention that EoD until she talked about him a lot

DrWilgy - honestly got close to nothing from his day 1 posts. He's posted a few decently lucid thoughts this day phase that I liked, but I don't really know how he plays as wolf. Everything I've seen from him seems in line with his town games from before, though. The biggest problem I have with him is mostly other peoples posting about him, lol. People saying "the MR shot was good for him"

Like, it was on a towny, and it's not rly like he's just going to out to shoot someone outer PoE imo. Radishes is also someone who can contribute pretty well but is also a low accountability kill, like I think it's a scummier kill than not tbh.

Though I just remembered specifically his posting about calling Anne town, that was pretty good and I generally agree with the thoughts, would add those to my reasons to town read Anne

Dyslexicon - Liked their vibes but their recent reads list really pinged me

They read all of day 1 and just dropped a PoE going "Mac Anne Esooa" and it made me really just go like

This is actually just the consensus PoE for the past 24 hours and no one has cared, like hello pls why is this a thing

Particularly don't like it irt mostly in annoyance because I think I'm PoE only for being a sub, but I think it's a pretty good demonstration of what I mean. I have 88 posts in 24 hours already and I still feel like I'm being treated as a nothing slot and nobody really cares that much about my placement, the people who really do I think are decently likely town regardless. And the same thing is being done with Mac/Anne where they're just... existing as PoE and nothing is being done about it. No one's being pushed, Anne has been decently wagoned but there's no one really convicted she's a wolf, it's just kinda like.. yeah she's vaguely scummy, and votes are just placed on her

I think especially because I'm town and no one is taking any interest in movement it decently raises the others chances of being town, btw, but I digress, going back to Dizzy;

The way they engaged with the reads just felt shitty and made the thread state particularly hit me. They read day 1, which like yeah that's good, but then afterwards just dropped their fully consensus PoE with no real interest in actually solving these slots. I've posted around Dizzy a few times and liked that we had similar thoughts, but they don't even seem to have registered that fact. They said "Mac's day 1 was pretty lackluster, hope he picks it up day 2," but doesn't talk about or investigate his day 2 at all. The drive to solve from Dizzy just feels non-existent and I really didn't like it

I was gonna say their recent clap back against Illario was good, though, mostly for it feeling like a kinda towny "get the fuck off me," while I think wolf Dizzy would indeed be more of a smooth talker/etc, but I dunno I'm feeling they're decently wolfy now, prob just going to say they're null becuase idk about the Marmot interactions and think Marmot is decently wolfy

falcon45ca - Pretty confident he's town, like very. Green checked by Mac which I agree isn't ever w/w (his wolf equity probably actually increases if Mac is town cause I still kinda feel like the check is fake) but mostly has just been genuinely towny in giving like, hard hitting reads lol, as in when he explains his wolf reads they just have good conviction, and he pushes on things with determination the way he does as town, etc.

iaafr - Probs town. Had some slight paranoia from reading EoD he could be a wolf because his JJJ vote seemingly came out of no where, but I possibly just don't remember his previous stance on JJJ. I think the way he flip flopped on the read still is good but doubtfully hard clearing just cause I've pointed out this thing before and there's enough people with "iaafr meta" that I think he'd possibly be aware enough to try and subvert it like he did, more leaning to town still though. Generally just based on vibes, way he's posting, so I don't have a specific "this is town" thing from him. Some random thoughts on him I put down cause why not are that I actually did really like the way he approach SPF, he mentioned to me in DM's recently that he thinks SPF has very AI openers, and without me in the game too he brings out this read in specific about SPF, paying specific attention to her opener. Another thing I liked was the way he defended Nutella but didn't want to commit to it mostly because it reminds me of his thoughts about Limestone from a previous game, though I'm kinda eh on that particular read as the days gone longer

ilario/leetic - getting town vibes from both atm. Leetic is funny to me but the way he's pushing things seems more like a towny committed to their processes than a wolf trying to be obtuse to sow division, particularly got this feeling around EoD1. I haven't cared to read either much but Illario has just been really towny imo. Approach to NAA was good, like saying a player is mafia because they're town siding too much. Biggest thing I have in his favor was from EoD1 when he was like "why is (x person, I forgot) a wagon, I hope I get night killed."

Classic Illario town moment

Lime Coke - honestly haven't really been trying to solve him at all. His recent posts about "this day phase is weird" have made me :? slightly because he's mentioned it a few times but hasn't even talked about and is just... saying it. I also just kinda find the posts funny because NAA was saying he always goes into lost mode as town mid-game lmao but yea. People are generally reading him town, I'm fine with it don't care, if he lives another day or two will just ISO then and be able to get a decently confident read probably

MacDougall - think Mac is more likely town than not. Usually when I see him try to dig himself out of holes as mafia he does it more so trying to emulate his town style. Posting reads off the cuff, throwing his ego around, kinda thing. He's done some of the ego stuff but not as much, and the biggest response to pressure from him was just writing a big iaafr case that I liked the spontaneity of and I don't particularly think he'd be casing iaafr here as a wolf cause just.. why

Tbh, thinking this is less strong of a reason than I had in my head now that I write it out though. I do agree that sitting around doing nothing comes from wolf Mac a lot more often than town Mac, too, so yeah.

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

I kinda thought his response to pressure earlier was wolfy, I don't know how much I care about that now. Not much but I may as well mention

Basically he was pretty aggro about wolf reads on him, calling them really bad, but then he immediately switched into like, cooperative mode, going "I don't think this day phase has been going in a good direction for town, we need to come together to fix the problem." It just felt skeevy but meh

NotAnAxehole - I think he's had a few towny posts but I'm going back and forth on him. I guess he's PoE, but not really a priority at all. His post earlier about me not having thoughts on spew from the wolf was good, mostly because in one of the most previous games we played I read his spew pretty in depth to push his wolf partner Alison, so it makes sense he's expecting me to look at those kinda things again. It's mostly a minor point, though. He had some posts day 1 that were like, snap read kinda things, just posting thoughts on a fair few things in quick succession. I could be wrong about this because I didn't read much of backwards mafia where he was a wolf, but I recall his reads being a lot more formulaic/stilted in that game, not as flowy as there.

I think by far the worst part about NAA is his JJJ read. He talked a lot about JJJ, and basically seemed to put a strong emphasis on JJJ's influence in his game, but at the same time claimed... no read on him. I don't really understand how you can not have a read on someone who's a focal point of your game, and it felt like an excuse more than anything. I also think him being on the wagon is actually bad considering his earlier stuff in the EoD about not voting JJJ

nutella - have felt like she's slightly towny in terms of her reads. Have some minor gripes but meh. I think the pressure against her SoD2 was jumped on by a wolf, which helps, tbh I don't remember who all did that but I know Marmot did at least which I didn't like, lol. I do agree with Iaafr's opinion that Nutella's posts about JJJ don't look partnered but I kinda expected more? Like the one Dizzy quoted earlier and said they liked was good, but I didn't really see much else from Nutella about JJJ that I went like "yeah this is someone without TMI on JJJ"

I also just barely lost to wolf!Alexa due to associative reads lol, (Gira was the one who pulled the trigger on that but I was thinking the same while alive), and kinda was thinking after seeing that, that I shouldn't be clearing partners off of like... individual posts that can really intentionally be wifomy. Nutella's thoughts about JJJ extend past one post but not significantly.

Do agree that her having no tunnels is a bit but eh. Town leaning her

staypositivefriend - Pretty conflicted on SPF this game which I don't like, leaning her wolf though. I have a lot of stuff that I'd need to pull posts for that I don't really want to do right now because I've spent a lot of time writing this but basically, I don't really agree with Alexa that SPF's EoD was that good. She did venture off the wagons temporarily that led to JJJ being in contention, but I don't think "I don't want to kill JJJ today" is something SPF wouldn't be able to post as a wolf. It's like, not that hard to think as a wolf considering it's a pretty common thought, and she did a few things I didn't like EoD. Immediately after saying she thought JJJ was wolfy but she didn't want to kill him that day, she made a really, really really wolfy post; I'm actually going to go find it.

i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

So, in the first paragraph she says "I would be lying if I said that I've gotten anything AI out of (Wilgys) posts"

But then immediately after goes,

then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

while saying something he's done that's wolfy. Saying, like, someone is null to you (the first paragraph), then going into "but here's something they've done that's wolfy actually, and I want them dead today" just reads so awful to me

Other random stuff I didn't like is like, her post earlier saying "I think this PoE from Mac was possibly made to wolf side,"

Which is such a weird sounding thought to begin with, but reading day 1 with that thought in mind I just go... really? Like, this Mac is making PoE's trying to hard wolf side?

He didn't do anything or push anything, and then a wolf died. I really don't think that's a wolf-siding Mac, wolf!Mac here is pretty obviously just doing nothing

I also disliked how disjointed SPF's EoD was. She threw out like.. 4 or 5 posts that were just paragraphs of her posting a thought, without much interaction. It all sounded rehearsed to me, too

I have the p403 is partnery from SPF I'm not gonna find it so there's that

Anyways what I was gonna write after all this is just stuff like, I think the gamestate rn is pretty bad just in the sense there's no real pushes and the votes on PoE are really consensus and basically no one cares, all the people who I see doing non-consensus stuff I think are town, and it's just not good imo

Current people I want to look into more are like, Marmot first of all, probably actually SPF second there, then Dizzy

Though this is a confusing amalgamation of people in terms of interactions but eh lmao

@JaggedJimmyJay
@Marmot @falcon45ca @DrWilgy

Can you look at these two posts and tell me what you get from those vs like this post

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6229364

I was the one to point those out!

Did I compare them? No I forgot, will do that

Edited Sabie's post to put the better spoiler tags in

(reminder to self to get rid of those other spoiler tags)

[Marmot]

Wait, sabi already did it lmao

[Marmot]

@Sabiplz any thoughts on my last exchange with Nanook?

Seemed kinda townie imo. I appreciate that he's acknowledging his position in the game state, and is adjusting his view accordingly. I'm probably going to end the day with my vote on esooa.

[Sabiplz]

Wait, sabi already did it lmao

You were too busy celebrating in wolf chat to notice.

What were your notes

[Marmot]

One difference is that esooa gets to her point a lot faster as town in that post from the MU game. All of her points were one-liners, sometimes two. In the other two quotes they're paragraphs (one being from a scum game, and one from this game).

[Marmot]

Fwiw, I read the post you quoted sabi, I noticed that difference pretty quickly, and then I checked her alignment in that game and guessed correctly it was town.

[Sabiplz]

Glad everyone is on the same page with me.

[Marmot]

I gotchu

[falcon45ca]

These crickets do remind me of an old saying...dead air, dead villager

[Marmot]

Plz be a wolf

[MacDougall]

Who killed Alison?

Poll ended at Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:05 pm

DrWilgy

0

No votes Voters: NoneEsooa

5

50% Voters: Marmot, JaggedJimmyJay, DrWilgy, Sabiplz, falcon45cafalcon45a

0

No votes Voters: NoneJaggedJimmyJay

1

10% Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOMEMarmot

0

No votes Voters: NoneNanook

1

10% Voters: EsooaSabiplz

0

No votes Voters: NoneYa mum hahahahah

3

30% Voters: MissSparkles, Scotty, MacDougall

[MacDougall]

Esooa has died and reveals to be town.

It is night. See you tomorrow.