Kid's Birthday Party Mafia Game Over

[falcon45ca]

Re: Esooa's monologue...I find most of Esooa's posts as 20% null, 15% marginally towny, and 65% scummy.

[Sabiplz]

Talkative day

[Marmot]

Hi

[Marmot]

lucy lied, I played a turbo with her last night where she made Day 1 reads as town.

[Marmot]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME you should redo your POE, I don't belong in it.

[Marmot]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

[Marmot]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

[falcon45ca]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

[Marmot]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME you should redo your POE, I don't belong in it.

Unlikely

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Let's talk about this

Let's! There is an alternative interpretation available for Esooa's handling of the Sparkles wagon and Day 1 voting in general, as I alluded to in that review. I think a good way to dig deeper into that to explore the case for Esooa would be to take a look at her progressions on the counterwagons to Sparkles (primarily lucy and outed wolf). Her treatment of Sparkles in a vacuum is "fine" I think, but that will lend additional context.

Perhaps that's something you can look into, Captain falcon. I'm at work.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Marmot what's your current impression of Wilgy?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Had surgery the other day, so I ain't solving this cycle.

Will respond to notifications if you need something though.

[VOTE: Lucy] aubergine is safe enough. Don't let me misyeet her if we are wrong town glgl.

I hope this went well for you, doctor. Did you perform the operation on yourself?

[Esooa]

Told you lucy wasn't maf.

Meh on being wrong about Alison.

Who cares lol she literallt has to die

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Wilgy's surgical exploits are sufficient on their own to excuse any notion of "falling off". We're left then with Day 1 alone to make a judgment, and he looked good then. I acknowledge that some measure of my intent to reexamine Wilgy relates to a very basic meta assessment: Wilgy seeming supertown is unusual, and therefore he ought to be checked out more closely.

[Esooa]

actually if I have 6 town reads (true) then it's not

6 town reads, tho later talks about how they don't have any SRs they feel strongly about...I don't get that logic at all

I think all your other posts have merit except this one because I tend to have a lot of tr and no sr as town. People can be null.

I guess, in a larger game, sure...


But how many nulls is that, and how many scum?


At least some...even just 1 decent SR would be necessary if a player has 6 TRs at this stage and this roster size IMO

Fair enough I only had one sr (Alison)

And now I have none.

I'm struggling a bit.

Well, I'd like you to ISO Esooa and see what you think.

What is your take on her whole monologue about never dying and she wasn't going to try during d3 and only show up for eod3?

I'm struggling to figure out why she would kill Alison over jjj (both are highly rated players) because Alison tr her and jjj I think had her in his poe?

I was being sarcastic because this entire game has been boring

[falcon45ca]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

[Marmot]

@Marmot what's your current impression of Wilgy?

I'd be surprised if he was scum after seeing his Day 1. I've never seen that level of effort and transparency in though that we saw from him as scum. Frankly, I haven't seen it as town either, although he has strayed closer to it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME you should redo your POE, I don't belong in it.

Unlikely

I know explaining isn't really your gig, but if you could say like three words about Marmot that'd be super

[Sabiplz]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

[Sabiplz]

Me: spends D1 & D2 saying lucy chop is pointless and what not

Falcon: they went along with it

What the fuck

[Marmot]

Alison as the kill over Jay makes sense in a lot of worlds imo. In the world where Jay is scum, it's obvious why. In the world where Jay is town, the final wolf knows that Alison will come into Day 3 realizing she'll have to build a new world view with lucy flipping town, and imo she's a scarier townie than Jay to face as a wolf.

Obviously Jay could just be a wolf, I'm considering this world too. I still think is progression on Sparkles is rand!town though

[Marmot]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

You did go along with it, but you've done more than that, and we requested you to go along with it, so I don't think you can be faulted for that.

[Esooa]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Alison as the kill over Jay makes sense in a lot of worlds imo. In the world where Jay is scum, it's obvious why. In the world where Jay is town, the final wolf knows that Alison will come into Day 3 realizing she'll have to build a new world view with lucy flipping town, and imo she's a scarier townie than Jay to face as a wolf.

Obviously Jay could just be a wolf, I'm considering this world too. I still think is progression on Sparkles is rand!town though

Folks used to fear me more when I was mean. I should be mean again.

Spoiler: show

This in no way reflects on Alison, and I have no intention of being mean

[Sabiplz]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

Because I know how lucy plays.

You just ignore her for a bit.

Yall all came into D2 giving her zero space to breathe.

What the fuck do you expect her to do?

She's going to troll back. That's what she does.

Oh she should have tried or whatever. Why? Because Alison was conf biased and she also doesn't play like that.

She has her own play style, which is unorthodox, but it works. It catches scum like illario during champs. it catches dizzy in asmr.

[Marmot]

Alison as the kill over Jay makes sense in a lot of worlds imo. In the world where Jay is scum, it's obvious why. In the world where Jay is town, the final wolf knows that Alison will come into Day 3 realizing she'll have to build a new world view with lucy flipping town, and imo she's a scarier townie than Jay to face as a wolf.

Obviously Jay could just be a wolf, I'm considering this world too. I still think is progression on Sparkles is rand!town though

Folks used to fear me more when I was mean. I should be mean again.

Spoiler: show

This in no way reflects on Alison, and I have no intention of being mean

I know you have solid accuracy, but from my experience as a wolf (when you're town), you will probably read me correctly at some points, but you'll probably go pursue a million other thought processes, so the pressure isn't as big of a deal.

[Sabiplz]

If yall just let lucy play how she plays D1 none of this shit would have happened but yall can't play with people with unorthodox play styles.

Learn to manage players and work with their styles instead of punishing them because you can't get their style of play.

[Sabiplz]

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

You did go along with it, but you've done more than that, and we requested you to go along with it, so I don't think you can be faulted for that.

So then why did Falcon neglect all that and went with the uncharitable view of things.

[Esooa]

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

Because I know how lucy plays.

You just ignore her for a bit.

Yall all came into D2 giving her zero space to breathe.

What the fuck do you expect her to do?

She's going to troll back. That's what she does.

Oh she should have tried or whatever. Why? Because Alison was conf biased and she also doesn't play like that.

She has her own play style, which is unorthodox, but it works. It catches scum like illario during champs. it catches dizzy in asmr.

Lmao

[Marmot]

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

Because I know how lucy plays.

You just ignore her for a bit.

Yall all came into D2 giving her zero space to breathe.

What the fuck do you expect her to do?

She's going to troll back. That's what she does.

Oh she should have tried or whatever. Why? Because Alison was conf biased and she also doesn't play like that.

She has her own play style, which is unorthodox, but it works. It catches scum like illario during champs. it catches dizzy in asmr.

We shouldn't reward uncooperative players or punish players who are willing to make strong stances. We need the latter, especially in mountainous games.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lmao

Why is that "lmao"?

[Sabiplz]

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

Because I know how lucy plays.

You just ignore her for a bit.

Yall all came into D2 giving her zero space to breathe.

What the fuck do you expect her to do?

She's going to troll back. That's what she does.

Oh she should have tried or whatever. Why? Because Alison was conf biased and she also doesn't play like that.

She has her own play style, which is unorthodox, but it works. It catches scum like illario during champs. it catches dizzy in asmr.

We shouldn't reward uncooperative players or punish players who are willing to make strong stances. We need the latter, especially in mountainous games.

I know how she plays, she's a good player that can read players well when she plays her way.

Just let her do it her way and she catches scum.

You haven't played with Lucy enough.

[Marmot]

I won't speak for falcon on that one @Sabiplz

Also my last post submitted before I was finished, but I wanted to add that I'm not faulting lucy for doing her thing, but no one should be excused for being chopped Day 2.

[Esooa]

Lmao

Why is that "lmao"?

Because the bar for half the people voting Lucy was "do literally anything, anything at all.* It's not as if she was... Playing the game.. and people were just wolf reading everything she was doing. She made literally no attempts to be towny, at any point in this entire game. Her death can be attributed to nothing but herself

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The conflict between lucy and Alison in another angle of investigation that might provide value. Mafia chose to kill Alison, and that gives us the knowledge that their entire multi-day spat was town-motivated. Everyone else was challenged to handle it appropriately. I might look deeper into that today.

[Sabiplz]

I won't speak for falcon on that one @Sabiplz

Also my last post submitted before I was finished, but I wanted to add that I'm not faulting lucy for doing her thing, but no one should be excused for being chopped Day 2.

If D2 starts off with someone ego tunneling, then why would you give into that?

[Marmot]

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

Because I know how lucy plays.

You just ignore her for a bit.

Yall all came into D2 giving her zero space to breathe.

What the fuck do you expect her to do?

She's going to troll back. That's what she does.

Oh she should have tried or whatever. Why? Because Alison was conf biased and she also doesn't play like that.

She has her own play style, which is unorthodox, but it works. It catches scum like illario during champs. it catches dizzy in asmr.

We shouldn't reward uncooperative players or punish players who are willing to make strong stances. We need the latter, especially in mountainous games.

I know how she plays, she's a good player that can read players well when she plays her way.

Just let her do it her way and she catches scum.

You haven't played with Lucy enough.

I don't think playing with lucy more will fix this problem. I've played two other games with her, and she played differently in each of those games and was town.

Let's put this behind us though. We spent all day yesterday talking about why we chopped lucy, and we don't really need to dive back into it. Time to move on to spicytown.

[Sabiplz]

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

Because I know how lucy plays.

You just ignore her for a bit.

Yall all came into D2 giving her zero space to breathe.

What the fuck do you expect her to do?

She's going to troll back. That's what she does.

Oh she should have tried or whatever. Why? Because Alison was conf biased and she also doesn't play like that.

She has her own play style, which is unorthodox, but it works. It catches scum like illario during champs. it catches dizzy in asmr.

We shouldn't reward uncooperative players or punish players who are willing to make strong stances. We need the latter, especially in mountainous games.

I know how she plays, she's a good player that can read players well when she plays her way.

Just let her do it her way and she catches scum.

You haven't played with Lucy enough.

I don't think playing with lucy more will fix this problem. I've played two other games with her, and she played differently in each of those games and was town.

Let's put this behind us though. We spent all day yesterday talking about why we chopped lucy, and we don't really need to dive back into it. Time to move on to spicytown.

Fine.

Thots on Nook eod

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lmao

Why is that "lmao"?

Because the bar for half the people voting Lucy was "do literally anything, anything at all.* It's not as if she was... Playing the game.. and people were just wolf reading everything she was doing. She made literally no attempts to be towny, at any point in this entire game. Her death can be attributed to nothing but herself

Okay.

She's gone now, so I look forward to seeing your view of the game in a hopefully less boring state of affairs.

[Marmot]

I don't remember Nook's EOD, I'll look.

[Sabiplz]

By eod I mean the last like 12 hours before eod because Mac chose the worst time

[Esooa]

I'm not actually going to be voting him

Not voting OW. Much of their content came after Wilgy voted them, nanook is just sheeping wilgys vote, and lucy doesn't have Day 1 scumreads, so I don't like the wagon composition

Keeping my vote on sparkles.

Also this was my response to sabi asking "why ow"

Which also is before you said you weren't voting him marmot

My sparkles vote doesn't do the most but I never was intending to vote ow

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nook eod response defending lucy kinda felt genuine.

Could you point to the specific response you have in mind?

Him telling Alison off that lucy isn't going to play like Alison and to stop holding her to that standard and then saying oops after Lucy outted herself as wolf.

I just want to bring forward that stretch of posts so we can view it easily:

Spoiler: show

gg i was scum, town wins smh

unfair game when alison tunnels me the entire time

everything i did was fuckin nai

If Lucy's a wolf then okay she couldn't do anything to not die but if she's town it's just a complete waste that we have to do and while we're all sitting here it's like completely stagnating the game to even make other slots harder to solve because there's little/nothing for anyone to do to influence the game

Ergo she's a wolf because she would know better than to do this as a town.

Like even if she's completely given up she would at least outline her case on you I think, particularly when she's allegedly convinced that people will analyze this day/sheep her legacy after she flips.

Thats what you would do as town, that doesn't make it broadly applicable or applicable to her specifically

Nvm lol

There's one core point that gives me pause about your rationale, Sabi. Nanook's posts came 10 minutes after lucy's scum claim thing lol.

[Sabiplz]

I guess he posted that before he saw the post? That's the only other plausible explanation

[Marmot]

Before I do that, I'll mention my thoughts on esooa.

She subbed into Philosopher II Mafia as a wolf on Day 2, and did some stream of consciousness style posting in that game.

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3

The first example is a reads list, but it's huge and still falls under this SoC category.

I'll see if I can find a town game where she does this. Esooa if you know of one, please share it.



The reason I bring this up is that she did this towards the EOD1 here where she engaged OW with a really long post where it started by asking about lucy/Alison interactions, then asked OW to explain his wolfread on Sparkles, then starts to meander about all sorts of other reads Esooa has.

My qualm with this post is that I can look at it and easily see that Esooa was trying to bury a defense of a partner in a wall of text. Something that she did in Philosopher II Mafia. See Example 1, and how she talked about anne and MacDougall.

[Sabiplz]

Reminder my pronouns are they/them not she/her

[falcon45ca]

Me: spends D1 & D2 saying lucy chop is pointless and what not

Falcon: they went along with it

What the fuck

Remind me again who you voted for?


At the end of the day, I'm still TRing you, but I don't believe what I said is all that inflammatory

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I guess he posted that before he saw the post? That's the only other plausible explanation

Could be. Either way, I don't think that's quite a clearing moment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Example 1

I just want to say that when I clicked on this and scrolled over the post, I almost spit laughing at SPF dropping an insta-vote right after the wall.