Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: sean] aubergine

You should tell me about... me.

I found your reaction to Dizzy's vote paltry.

I found your reaction to my vote amusing, but also paltry.

How would you expect town!Sean to react to a naked vote from a player that usually has an okay read on him?

I would expect town!you to have more to say at this point on Day 2 than questioning a vote on you.

Marmot... Marmot marmot marmot...

[Marmot]

[VOTE: sean] aubergine

You should tell me about... me.

I found your reaction to Dizzy's vote paltry.

I found your reaction to my vote amusing, but also paltry.

How would you expect town!Sean to react to a naked vote from a player that usually has an okay read on him?

I would expect town!you to have more to say at this point on Day 2 than questioning a vote on you.

Marmot... Marmot marmot marmot...

[VOTE: Ender] aubergine

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

[Seanzie]

Marmot's take on me asking Dizzy about his vote is not real.

[NateTheLesser]

My one concern with your spreadsheet Nate is that it is a tool that exists outside of the thread, and it is editable by you, which basically gives you an advantage to share information that you can change.

That said, it's fucking dynamite and I want it to stay!

Well sure, in theory I could edit it selectively, but people tend to notice if it says they voted for someone they didn't actually vote for (which, if I do mess anything up, please let me know).

Any thoughts or analysis based on the sheet will be made in the thread so it's on record etc etc.

[Marmot]

My one concern with your spreadsheet Nate is that it is a tool that exists outside of the thread, and it is editable by you, which basically gives you an advantage to share information that you can change.

That said, it's fucking dynamite and I want it to stay!

Well sure, in theory I could edit it selectively, but people tend to notice if it says they voted for someone they didn't actually vote for (which, if I do mess anything up, please let me know).

Any thoughts or analysis based on the sheet will be made in the thread so it's on record etc etc.

I should add that I don't think you would do that, nor do I think it would actually present a problem here. It just feels a little against general game integrity to me, but that's probably a product of the community I play in. Especially since this is a normal thing for you where you play.

[Marmot]

Marmot's take on me asking Dizzy about his vote is not real.

It is very real, and can be read in P#1890

[Seanzie]

Marmot's take on me asking Dizzy about his vote is not real.

It is very real, and can be read in P#1890

You don't believe it. It is BS.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Live google docs are probably best presented here in the form of screenshots. Appreciate the effort regardless

[Marmot]

Marmot's take on me asking Dizzy about his vote is not real.

It is very real, and can be read in P#1890

You don't believe it. It is BS.

Cool.

[Seanzie]

Marmot's take on me asking Dizzy about his vote is not real.

It is very real, and can be read in P#1890

You don't believe it. It is BS.

Cool.

Agreed, outing a wolf is pretty cool.

[Marmot]

Things Mac Said about People That Mac Said Things about


Alison - says Alison reeks of town for antoginizing Rondo. Later read her ISO and nothing stood out as scummy.

Boquise - has a bit of an altercation with Boq, then states a 99% certain townread

Creature - calls Creature quite townie. Later votes for Creature (I didn't find an explanation). Eventually calls Creature probably just town (thanks to input from sean)

DrWilgy - calls DrWilgy most suspicious player in the game aside from falcon. Maintains that suspicion later on

Dyslexicon - calls Dizzy town for playing in bystander mode. Eventually lists Dizzy in a POE (though most likely town in said POE)

EnderWiggin

fingersplints

JaggedJimmyJay - Do what Jay says until LYLO, then kill Jay if he's alive. Continues to list Jay as firmly a townread.

lucy - calls lucy town for being new and posting lots. Then had a long back and forth where he questioned why lucy was posting so much but not making reads. Later states a suspicion of her.

Marmot - His last post was to tunnel Marmot if falcon is a miss.

NateTheLesser - agreed with Nate's read on falcon.

RondoDimBuckle - consistent Rondo townreads. Eventually concedes that Rondo could be wolfing, but that he'll be killed at some point anyway.

Seanzie - called Sean town for openly engaging with Mac in a non-apprehensive way

[Marmot]

Marmot's take on me asking Dizzy about his vote is not real.

It is very real, and can be read in P#1890

You don't believe it. It is BS.

Cool.

Agreed, outing a wolf is pretty cool.

I've changed my mind, but not not for the reason you might think.

[Seanzie]

Marmot's take on me asking Dizzy about his vote is not real.

It is very real, and can be read in P#1890

You don't believe it. It is BS.

Cool.

Agreed, outing a wolf is pretty cool.

I've changed my mind, but not not for the reason you might think.

On what?

[Marmot]

To break down Mac's Day 1 reads:

Confident Town

Alison
Boquise
JaggedJimmyJay

Town

Creature
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie

Null

Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
fingersplints
NateTheLesser

Scum

DrWilgy
lucy
Marmot


There you go Jay, have fun.

[robyn]

Things Mac Said about People That Mac Said Things about


Alison - says Alison reeks of town for antoginizing Rondo. Later read her ISO and nothing stood out as scummy.

Boquise - has a bit of an altercation with Boq, then states a 99% certain townread

Creature - calls Creature quite townie. Later votes for Creature (I didn't find an explanation). Eventually calls Creature probably just town (thanks to input from sean)

DrWilgy - calls DrWilgy most suspicious player in the game aside from falcon. Maintains that suspicion later on

Dyslexicon - calls Dizzy town for playing in bystander mode. Eventually lists Dizzy in a POE (though most likely town in said POE)

EnderWiggin

fingersplints

JaggedJimmyJay - Do what Jay says until LYLO, then kill Jay if he's alive. Continues to list Jay as firmly a townread.

lucy - calls lucy town for being new and posting lots. Then had a long back and forth where he questioned why lucy was posting so much but not making reads. Later states a suspicion of her.

Marmot - His last post was to tunnel Marmot if falcon is a miss.

NateTheLesser - agreed with Nate's read on falcon.

RondoDimBuckle - consistent Rondo townreads. Eventually concedes that Rondo could be wolfing, but that he'll be killed at some point anyway.

Seanzie - called Sean town for openly engaging with Mac in a non-apprehensive way

link mac's message where he has a suspicion of me

[Marmot]

Marmot's take on me asking Dizzy about his vote is not real.

It is very real, and can be read in P#1890

You don't believe it. It is BS.

Cool.

Agreed, outing a wolf is pretty cool.

I've changed my mind, but not not for the reason you might think.

On what?

I was reading Mac's ISO and came across an interaction you had with him talking about Creature, and thought it was a very good take, and most likely a townie take. I have a harder time seeing wolf!you bothering to stick your neck out for a player like Creature (who seems to get misread often).

[Seanzie]

It is very real, and can be read in P#1890

You don't believe it. It is BS.

Cool.

Agreed, outing a wolf is pretty cool.

I've changed my mind, but not not for the reason you might think.

On what?

I was reading Mac's ISO and came across an interaction you had with him talking about Creature, and thought it was a very good take, and most likely a townie take. I have a harder time seeing wolf!you bothering to stick your neck out for a player like Creature (who seems to get misread often).

So you know Creature is town? got it. Thanks.

[Marmot]

Things Mac Said about People That Mac Said Things about


Alison - says Alison reeks of town for antoginizing Rondo. Later read her ISO and nothing stood out as scummy.

Boquise - has a bit of an altercation with Boq, then states a 99% certain townread

Creature - calls Creature quite townie. Later votes for Creature (I didn't find an explanation). Eventually calls Creature probably just town (thanks to input from sean)

DrWilgy - calls DrWilgy most suspicious player in the game aside from falcon. Maintains that suspicion later on

Dyslexicon - calls Dizzy town for playing in bystander mode. Eventually lists Dizzy in a POE (though most likely town in said POE)

EnderWiggin

fingersplints

JaggedJimmyJay - Do what Jay says until LYLO, then kill Jay if he's alive. Continues to list Jay as firmly a townread.

lucy - calls lucy town for being new and posting lots. Then had a long back and forth where he questioned why lucy was posting so much but not making reads. Later states a suspicion of her.

Marmot - His last post was to tunnel Marmot if falcon is a miss.

NateTheLesser - agreed with Nate's read on falcon.

RondoDimBuckle - consistent Rondo townreads. Eventually concedes that Rondo could be wolfing, but that he'll be killed at some point anyway.

Seanzie - called Sean town for openly engaging with Mac in a non-apprehensive way

link mac's message where he has a suspicion of me

Sorry lucy. This is the post in question, and I appear to have misread it. Mac stated a townread on you here.

[Marmot]

To break down Mac's Day 1 reads:

Confident Town

Alison
Boquise
JaggedJimmyJay

Town

Creature
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie

Null

Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
fingersplints
NateTheLesser

Scum

DrWilgy
lucy
Marmot


There you go Jay, have fun.

Bump lucy to town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thanks Marmot. I'll have a go in a little bit.

[Seanzie]

You don't believe it. It is BS.

Cool.

Agreed, outing a wolf is pretty cool.

I've changed my mind, but not not for the reason you might think.

On what?

I was reading Mac's ISO and came across an interaction you had with him talking about Creature, and thought it was a very good take, and most likely a townie take. I have a harder time seeing wolf!you bothering to stick your neck out for a player like Creature (who seems to get misread often).

So you know Creature is town? got it. Thanks.

In particular, Marmot does not seem to consider the possibility of me/Creature w/w here, almost as if he knows our alignments already and just needed a reason to back off me in hopes I would also back off in kind.

[robyn]

To break down Mac's Day 1 reads:

Confident Town

Alison
Boquise
JaggedJimmyJay

Town

Creature
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie

Null

Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
fingersplints
NateTheLesser

Scum

DrWilgy
lucy
Marmot


There you go Jay, have fun.

where does he have dizzy in non town/null?

[Marmot]

Cool.

Agreed, outing a wolf is pretty cool.

I've changed my mind, but not not for the reason you might think.

On what?

I was reading Mac's ISO and came across an interaction you had with him talking about Creature, and thought it was a very good take, and most likely a townie take. I have a harder time seeing wolf!you bothering to stick your neck out for a player like Creature (who seems to get misread often).

So you know Creature is town? got it. Thanks.

In particular, Marmot does not seem to consider the possibility of me/Creature w/w here, almost as if he knows our alignments already and just needed a reason to back off me in hopes I would also back off in kind.

I thought about it, but the thought came and went and there was nothing to write about.

[Marmot]

To break down Mac's Day 1 reads:

Confident Town

Alison
Boquise
JaggedJimmyJay

Town

Creature
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie

Null

Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
fingersplints
NateTheLesser

Scum

DrWilgy
lucy
Marmot


There you go Jay, have fun.

where does he have dizzy in non town/null?

He listed Dizzy in his "list of players to chop". He did admit that Dizzy was probably most likely to be town in that list, but I considered that a null read, because it wasn't specifically calling dizzy town.

[Seanzie]

Agreed, outing a wolf is pretty cool.

I've changed my mind, but not not for the reason you might think.

On what?

I was reading Mac's ISO and came across an interaction you had with him talking about Creature, and thought it was a very good take, and most likely a townie take. I have a harder time seeing wolf!you bothering to stick your neck out for a player like Creature (who seems to get misread often).

So you know Creature is town? got it. Thanks.

In particular, Marmot does not seem to consider the possibility of me/Creature w/w here, almost as if he knows our alignments already and just needed a reason to back off me in hopes I would also back off in kind.

I thought about it, but the thought came and went and there was nothing to write about.

Oooor....

[robyn]

ah yeah he did, rest of mac's reads look correct

[Alison]

I still want to hear from Rondo about his Dizzy park but am otherwise inclined to trend him up because I think wolf teams with Rondo in them are >>rand likely to kill me before Mac.

[Marmot]

I've changed my mind, but not not for the reason you might think.

On what?

I was reading Mac's ISO and came across an interaction you had with him talking about Creature, and thought it was a very good take, and most likely a townie take. I have a harder time seeing wolf!you bothering to stick your neck out for a player like Creature (who seems to get misread often).

So you know Creature is town? got it. Thanks.

In particular, Marmot does not seem to consider the possibility of me/Creature w/w here, almost as if he knows our alignments already and just needed a reason to back off me in hopes I would also back off in kind.

I thought about it, but the thought came and went and there was nothing to write about.

Oooor....

Alright alright, I admit it.

Spoiler: show

It's tmi

[Seanzie]

On what?

I was reading Mac's ISO and came across an interaction you had with him talking about Creature, and thought it was a very good take, and most likely a townie take. I have a harder time seeing wolf!you bothering to stick your neck out for a player like Creature (who seems to get misread often).

So you know Creature is town? got it. Thanks.

In particular, Marmot does not seem to consider the possibility of me/Creature w/w here, almost as if he knows our alignments already and just needed a reason to back off me in hopes I would also back off in kind.

I thought about it, but the thought came and went and there was nothing to write about.

Oooor....

Alright alright, I admit it.

Spoiler: show

It's tmi

I believe you.

[NateTheLesser]

Live google docs are probably best presented here in the form of screenshots. Appreciate the effort regardless

I can freeze it as-is and use screenshots for future days.

[Spacedaisy]

Hey guys! I just wanted to speak up here, I see you guys have already come to the same conclusion we mods were about this. The SS is awesome, but sharing it with all the players at large kind of infringes on a couple rules and so it can't be used collectively in that way. We may have to remove the link from that post as well, since it is an editable document that is outside of the thread. Nate, if you would like to take a screenshot of it as it is and share it in the thread and continue with it forward that way, it would be perfectly allowable that way. Sorry guys!

[EnderWiggin]

The funniest thing that has happened is that my statement about saving Seanzie from Marmot was true.

[Seanzie]

The funniest thing that has happened is that my statement about saving Seanzie from Marmot was true.

What do you mean?

[EnderWiggin]

The funniest thing that has happened is that my statement about saving Seanzie from Marmot was true.

What do you mean?

Marmot scumread me
Marmot votes you.
I say "I'll save you from Marmot, Seanzie!"
I vote you (Part because I wolfish read you, part because it'd be funny if he changes after I do that.)
Marmot votes me.

[EnderWiggin]

the marmot wagon intrigues me...

I think it's a genuine c/w and will tunnel marmot if falcon is a miss

lel

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

At least for now, honouring Mac's last wish.

[EnderWiggin]

I kinda think that there is a necessary auto period here.

Like there is a line and those below it have to all die before those above it because if the mafia are all above it the game is already over and we are wasting our time and that's very unlikely.

Line

Dyslexicon
Creature
Falcon
DrWilgy

For some reason I don't want to put Fingersplints below the line. I think Dyslexicon has the most chance of being town but I can't reasonably put him above it.

I don't 100% agree with this (I have Dizzy town) but noting Mac's thoughts.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm down.

Thank you.

One line of investigation that may be obvious but still doesn't tend to get the dedicated, systematic analysis it warrants is to individually assess the votes on the large mischop wagon of Day 1. We have a bunch of people who took part in that wagon who were all responsible for justifying their participation somehow. If we examine the full progression of each voter on their falcon reads we can try to determine with some reasonable degree of depth their sincerity.

I will likely do this myself, but two sets of eyes are better than one.

Okay so, thinking time.

Ender
Mac
Jay
Alison
Lucy
Nate
Fingersplints
Dizzy

I know I'm town
Mac flips town
I think I have a read on Dizzy town

3/8 townlock for me

I don't think there's all 3 wolves. I think 1-2.

Lucy I have a townish bend on rn.

I want to say Alison/Jay both town but I'm not 100% sure.

I'd say from that Nate/Finger needs my scrutiny most.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why is Dizzy town, @EnderWiggin

[EnderWiggin]

Why is Dizzy town, @EnderWiggin

I think I can read his entrance and have been right three times in a row, including one where I correctly called him scum off his entrance. (I think that was GOC.)

[EnderWiggin]

Also will point at GOC for a great example of me playing chaotically and hiding information I wanted to hide when I was actually town.

I got N1'd by a town vig in that game for it, but proof in pudding and all that shiz.

[NateTheLesser]

Vote Spreadsheet

This is something I do on my homesite because we don't have any sort of vote automation (and Ender will recognize it because I brought screenshots of it to our champs qualifier). If you want to see what the vote count was at any given point in time, this will help.

- There's a tab for each Day at the bottom. All votes from the thread are listed in chronological order, and on the right side is a running vote count that shows what the vote count was after each vote.
- Due to the vagaries of The Poll being separate from the thread, I'm using the timestamp from the vote post if I could find one. I also took poll screenshots occasionally and reconciled the vote counts (there are notes on the timestamps of when this was done), so at those points the count is definitely accurate. There were at least a few votes that I could tell happened from the screenshots but didn't see a vote post for, so that's what the "??:??" votes are.
- Waterfall: This tab shows, for each player, everyone that they voted for each day. Player alignments are colored in after they die.
- Wagons: Shows the final vote count from each day’s vote, with player alignments colored in as the game goes on.
- If you open the document you'll be anonymous to anyone else in there, so don't worry about doxxing yourself.
- I obviously won't be updating this anymore after I die.

Link removed in edit by mod

(I think that'll actually embed here..? Unless the preview is lying to me. It seems like it loses some of the formatting and doesn't show notes, so this is the actual link if you want to open the document:
Link removed in edit by mod

One item of note to start with regarding JJJ's idea to look at the Falcon votes: everyone except Boq/Rondo/Wilgy voted for Falcon at some point. So unless that's exactly the team, there are wolf fingerprints on the Falcon push.

Nate will be allowed to share this document by screenshot, but we can't utilize a shared, editable document outside the thread. Apologies for having to edit this post, but I couldn't see a good way around that.

It's back, in Pog screenshot form!

Day 1 Votes:

Spoiler: show

Waterfall:

Spoiler: show

EOD Wagons:

Spoiler: show

[EnderWiggin]

And now I hear you ask, why would you do that?

Cause it's fun bruh

[EnderWiggin]

I love you for those screenshots btw

[Marmot]

I'm down.

Thank you.

One line of investigation that may be obvious but still doesn't tend to get the dedicated, systematic analysis it warrants is to individually assess the votes on the large mischop wagon of Day 1. We have a bunch of people who took part in that wagon who were all responsible for justifying their participation somehow. If we examine the full progression of each voter on their falcon reads we can try to determine with some reasonable degree of depth their sincerity.

I will likely do this myself, but two sets of eyes are better than one.

Okay so, thinking time.

Ender
Mac
Jay
Alison
Lucy
Nate
Fingersplints
Dizzy

I know I'm town
Mac flips town
I think I have a read on Dizzy town

3/8 townlock for me

I don't think there's all 3 wolves. I think 1-2.

Lucy I have a townish bend on rn.

I want to say Alison/Jay both town but I'm not 100% sure.

I'd say from that Nate/Finger needs my scrutiny most.

You should probably scrutinize me if you're going to vote for me too.

[Marmot]

Why did you vote for falcon Day 1 Ender? If I recall correctly, you voted him without any explanation (after previously reading him as town).

[EnderWiggin]

Why did you vote for falcon Day 1 Ender? If I recall correctly, you voted him without any explanation (after previously reading him as town).

I happened to end up being convinced he was mafia.

[EnderWiggin]

You should probably scrutinize me if you're going to vote for me too.

That's an "If I get around to it."

[NateTheLesser]

In terms of suspicion around and votes for Falcon, this is a vote I'm interested in hearing more about. Offers a town perspective on Falcon early (not really a read, more "I would expect this from him as town"), and then later on has him as a scumlean but with an out of saying they always think he's scum and have been wrong before.

Alison looks towny, JJJ looks towny




Sean's a wolf

This post is scummy for Falcon... these reads are agenda laden regardless of what Alison and Jay's alignment is (can be t/w or t/t).

Alison looks towny, JJJ looks towny




Sean's a wolf

why why why

It's how I'm reading your playstyle, your vibes.



t's the approach Alison has, her posting has a questioning solvey method, that doesn't feel like it's pushing an agenda. You have a similar feel, like you're working on solving the game.



Sean feels...stiff, awkward.

words... that mean nothing

What really did it was his spree of just asking aimless questions of why people had the reads they had that I can already see he has no intent in following up on lol.

eg., town Falcon doesn't give a shit about why EnderWiggin would vote Fingersplints lol.

Town falcon pretty much always talks about/suspects me early. Him noticing and commenting on a vote of me isn’t at all surprising to me if he were town

67% town, I don't think scum Mac would push my ML so hard. I'd say his gut feel is real, it's just wrong.

yeah but like, as town I'm never wrong on you so you shouldn't think I'm town lol

Can anyone vouch for Mac never being wrong as town about falcon?

Gth I’d say I’m townleaning mac, and scumleaning falcon so considering following that vote but I have reservations as I always think falcon is scum and have been wrong

Have you played with scum!Falcon?

Yes

👍

Are you scumleaning Falcon due to that past experience, or what's feeding that scumlean?

Just a vibe based on past experiences and general tone in posts in this game.

It’s not great and completely vague, so I apologise to everyone and falcon. I wish I had more to go off of, but day 1 is rough

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

I’m going to try and be around still for the rest of the EOD but I’m already getting tired.

We are currently tied falcon vs creature. If it stays like that I support a falcon vote more than a creature vote. I think he is the more suspicious of the two, and I think that we can form some decent connections with his flip given a lot of folks have given opinions or had interactions with him. More than anything though I don’t want it to end in the tie option. Again I’ll try to stay up

I'm good with a vote here for now.
[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

[NateTheLesser]

Things Mac Said about People That Mac Said Things about


Alison - says Alison reeks of town for antoginizing Rondo. Later read her ISO and nothing stood out as scummy.

Boquise - has a bit of an altercation with Boq, then states a 99% certain townread

Creature - calls Creature quite townie. Later votes for Creature (I didn't find an explanation). Eventually calls Creature probably just town (thanks to input from sean)

DrWilgy - calls DrWilgy most suspicious player in the game aside from falcon. Maintains that suspicion later on

Dyslexicon - calls Dizzy town for playing in bystander mode. Eventually lists Dizzy in a POE (though most likely town in said POE)

EnderWiggin

fingersplints

JaggedJimmyJay - Do what Jay says until LYLO, then kill Jay if he's alive. Continues to list Jay as firmly a townread.

lucy - calls lucy town for being new and posting lots. Then had a long back and forth where he questioned why lucy was posting so much but not making reads. Later states a suspicion of her.

Marmot - His last post was to tunnel Marmot if falcon is a miss.

NateTheLesser - agreed with Nate's read on falcon.

RondoDimBuckle - consistent Rondo townreads. Eventually concedes that Rondo could be wolfing, but that he'll be killed at some point anyway.

Seanzie - called Sean town for openly engaging with Mac in a non-apprehensive way

Minor correction: I think Mac was saying Alison's poking at Rondo reeks, as in stinks. At the time he seemed to think she was just doing it to get a reaction and clog the thread.