GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[Paopan]

Fine. I vote Creature. Lock vote.

I leave everything to you all

[Porscha]

I thought this too but then I also feel like what's the point of a mafia publicly trying to out roles when they could keep that info to themselves while having town feel more relaxed to have a more surprise soup? it almost read as town as much as I hated it

Because it makes us all say "oh, alexa is the town role clop, let's clear her and move on with the game."

she was already pocketing me and belzy early what's the point

Let’s say she’s mafia.
Okay let’s say she didn’t out it.
Suddenly in the night you both get mysterious soup killed meanwhile she’s still alive. People are gonna wonder why the outed role cop is alive but you both died.

That’s no longer a problem now that ur role is outed.

thank you for the perspective I see your skepticism and I'm not beyond seeing alexa as a deep wolf but if she's maf then did she lie about getting shot n2? and what about LP giving her vest?

[ilario]

Mac and dizzys treatment of sloonei doesn’t feel partnery to me so I’m kinda side eyeing people who pushed him today

They both felt scared to push sloonei early game which is more indicative of w/v when you take into account the type of players everyone in question is

[ilario]

I thought this too but then I also feel like what's the point of a mafia publicly trying to out roles when they could keep that info to themselves while having town feel more relaxed to have a more surprise soup? it almost read as town as much as I hated it

Because it makes us all say "oh, alexa is the town role clop, let's clear her and move on with the game."

she was already pocketing me and belzy early what's the point

Let’s say she’s mafia.
Okay let’s say she didn’t out it.
Suddenly in the night you both get mysterious soup killed meanwhile she’s still alive. People are gonna wonder why the outed role cop is alive but you both died.

That’s no longer a problem now that ur role is outed.

thank you for the perspective I see your skepticism and I'm not beyond seeing alexa as a deep wolf but if she's maf then did she lie about getting shot n2? and what about LP giving her vest?

Yea I think she lied to look clear. Lp giving her a vest I think is true regardless of their alignment.

[Porscha]

I thought this too but then I also feel like what's the point of a mafia publicly trying to out roles when they could keep that info to themselves while having town feel more relaxed to have a more surprise soup? it almost read as town as much as I hated it

Because it makes us all say "oh, alexa is the town role clop, let's clear her and move on with the game."

she was already pocketing me and belzy early what's the point

Let’s say she’s mafia.
Okay let’s say she didn’t out it.
Suddenly in the night you both get mysterious soup killed meanwhile she’s still alive. People are gonna wonder why the outed role cop is alive but you both died.

That’s no longer a problem now that ur role is outed.

thank you for the perspective I see your skepticism and I'm not beyond seeing alexa as a deep wolf but if she's maf then did she lie about getting shot n2? and what about LP giving her vest?

Yea I think she lied to look clear. Lp giving her a vest I think is true regardless of their alignment.

so maf didn't shoot and then alexa claimed she was shot? that would be playing the long con lol

[Sloonei]

Mac and dizzys treatment of sloonei doesn’t feel partnery to me so I’m kinda side eyeing people who pushed him today

They both felt scared to push sloonei early game which is more indicative of w/v when you take into account the type of players everyone in question is

Not to lean too heavily into the confirmation bias, but this is where I began to really suspect Creature. He focused very sharply on me yesterday and today.

[Porscha]

plus alexa and belzy were the 2 who voted to use their vigi shot on mac. do you think alexa just bussed him since he was getting a lot of criticism after tsp got red checked?

[Sloonei]

I thought this too but then I also feel like what's the point of a mafia publicly trying to out roles when they could keep that info to themselves while having town feel more relaxed to have a more surprise soup? it almost read as town as much as I hated it

Because it makes us all say "oh, alexa is the town role clop, let's clear her and move on with the game."

she was already pocketing me and belzy early what's the point

Let’s say she’s mafia.
Okay let’s say she didn’t out it.
Suddenly in the night you both get mysterious soup killed meanwhile she’s still alive. People are gonna wonder why the outed role cop is alive but you both died.

That’s no longer a problem now that ur role is outed.

thank you for the perspective I see your skepticism and I'm not beyond seeing alexa as a deep wolf but if she's maf then did she lie about getting shot n2? and what about LP giving her vest?

Yea I think she lied to look clear. Lp giving her a vest I think is true regardless of their alignment.

so maf didn't shoot and then alexa claimed she was shot? that would be playing the long con lol

No, Long Con didn't sign up for the GoC this year.

[ilario]

Correct.

[ilario]

I thought this too but then I also feel like what's the point of a mafia publicly trying to out roles when they could keep that info to themselves while having town feel more relaxed to have a more surprise soup? it almost read as town as much as I hated it

Because it makes us all say "oh, alexa is the town role clop, let's clear her and move on with the game."

she was already pocketing me and belzy early what's the point

Let’s say she’s mafia.
Okay let’s say she didn’t out it.
Suddenly in the night you both get mysterious soup killed meanwhile she’s still alive. People are gonna wonder why the outed role cop is alive but you both died.

That’s no longer a problem now that ur role is outed.

thank you for the perspective I see your skepticism and I'm not beyond seeing alexa as a deep wolf but if she's maf then did she lie about getting shot n2? and what about LP giving her vest?

Yea I think she lied to look clear. Lp giving her a vest I think is true regardless of their alignment.

so maf didn't shoot and then alexa claimed she was shot? that would be playing the long con lol

This is meant to be the post I said correct to

[ilario]

plus alexa and belzy were the 2 who voted to use their vigi shot on mac. do you think alexa just bussed him since he was getting a lot of criticism after tsp got red checked?

That’s why I asked who suggested the shot first in the hood. My guess is belzy wanted mac shot, at which point then yes wolf Alexa would agree with the shot. If she came into the hood demanding mac to be shot that’s another story and what town alexa would do. My guess is this is what happened in the hood:

Alexa asks everyone their thoughts, floats a few names, one of which included mac and the other probably pao
Betsy suggests they want mac dead
Alexa says something like “okay I isod mac and yeah I agree he’s a wolf let’s shoot him”

[ilario]

Oh and she probably talked about how she’s worried she’s going to get nkd

[Porscha]

if that's the case then what do you make of alexa getting onto sabie so hard for not making the shot on pao? would that be a w/w dynamic? I feel like it's doubtful they are w/w b/c it really put sabie on her heels. if it's w!alexa then I feel like it makes sabie look better but idk if it was just theatrics or what

[Sloonei]

if that's the case then what do you make of alexa getting onto sabie so hard for not making the shot on pao? would that be a w/w dynamic? I feel like it's doubtful they are w/w b/c it really put sabie on her heels. if it's w!alexa then I feel like it makes sabie look better but idk if it was just theatrics or what

If Alexa is mafia, I think sabie is town. I think the reaction we saw earlier was just alexa trying to look the part.

[ilario]

I just think she’s trying to shade sabie for doing something that isn’t scummy to begin with. I asked sabie to holster yesterday so it’s not unreasonable for them to holster

Like her vote today is on sabie….for not shooting pao. If pao is town there is nothing wrong with sabie holstering and if anything Sabie had a perfect opportunity to kill a town pr and take no blame for it since everyone in the chat agreed to it at night. If pao is a wolf it does look worse for sabie, but in which case alexa would be voting pao first instead of voting sabie.

If anything it does increase the dynamic slightly that pao and Alexa can be potentially w/w, but not high enough that I would wanna risk killing a self resolvable slot like a town prot

[Porscha]

it stood out to me early that alexa was the only person besides belzy who pushed me as town when c4 was pushing me day 1. I wonder if she was just brown nosing me to see how I reacted, like maybe trying to get me to read her town for saving my chops

[ilario]

it stood out to me early that alexa was the only person besides belzy who pushed me as town when c4 was pushing me day 1. I wonder if she was just brown nosing me to see how I reacted, like maybe trying to get me to read her town for saving my chops

Can u quote where?

[Justplayingitcool]

If Alexa is wolf, do you think she is lying about the bo vest and being shot?

[ilario]

In only 10 posts, Porscha has

hi guys. glad to see this is like 30-something pages in already lol...

I only read on radish there to clarify

How much of the thread have you read?

about a quarter of it

Might not get to all of the day 1 posts. Amazing amount of posts already tbh, more than I expected even with all these people lol. Sorry if I dont quite catch all of them, but I'll do my best to read as much as I can. And a lot of my reads early on are pretty superficial since there is so much going on, I won't be hard reading this early. Not trying to go too crazy day 1 hehe.

An unnatural number of posts about how they're behind
(Middle one was prompted tho so less bad)

I have a red on radishes kill him

I cc

I town read this

yeah that's actual comedy. I don't see a reason to not town read radish atm

I only read on radish there to clarify

A TMIey Radish read

Particularly the wording of "I don't see a reason not to townread _______"
That's literally not how townreads work and it especially makes no sense when your reason is "this post is funny" and even more so when you obviously haven't read the rest of his posts

[VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

Sup

hey gamer what's poppin

You feel wolfy from a glance

Are you a wolf?

laugh and a half, and whether I was or wasn't I'd be saying no either way. seems like a silly question

This overly self-aware response, but could be explained by an MS mentality or something similar

Just all seems pretty wolfy

yes i'm looking at this now

definitely think Porsha could be a wolf

nvm i saw a kinda towny Porsha post around when c4 was contemplating shot

imo DrWilgy is better kill than Porsha. i thought Porsha's response to c4's push earlier was towny. i don't understand the momentum to save NAA after that, though

don't kill porsha

i just speed read her iso and really doubt she is mafia

[Justplayingitcool]

If creature AND alexa are wolves it means my entire worldview is wrong

[ilario]

These are her posts about you

She initially did support c4 on you actually, she defended u at the very end but imo that means very little because all the other wagons were town.

I still think wilgy is town. So defending you there means nothing if she’s pushing a wagon on another town. The other names in contention were ender and seanzie and naa. All town. Defending u there means nothing essentially.

[ilario]

Oh and u remember when I outed that massive wall casing her?

[ilario]

fine here’s why I think ur scum

First the whole alison naa thing. It just doesn’t make sense for you to rush that shot, I don’t see you doing that. You’re much more meticulous with handling these things and I feel like town you would want all the info out before you commit to a shot. My issue isn’t that you shot alison, it’s that you rushed the entire procedure. You held the gun shot for the entire day but the moment naa comes out with his claim you arbitrarily decide that he has to rescind his claim by 2:55 or you’re gonna shoot. You weren’t focused on solving him, you weren’t focused on solving alison it felt like your entire focus was on getting naa to confirm that he wasn’t going to rescind his claim. Because by doing so it gives you plausible deniability to shoot a strong villa and set up another villa known to troll to take the fall for it. And then you kept denying blame for it, which imo I found towny at first but it kept happening so much that it wrapped around to being wolfy again. Like you said over and over you didn’t think a role like that would exist, but you specifically designed the EXACT same role in a game you hosted, and whether this is advertised as bastard or not doesn’t disregard the fact that I think you would have taken a few minutes to consider the existence
Of such a role since you yourself hosted a game with it in the game.

I think your claim on d1 from a wolf pov was amazing. You played it perfectly and it felt towny as shit and that’s why I said earlier I applaud you for your d1. But as the game goes on the story with your claim gets muddy. You have a green check on guillo that’s not really a green check? Like idk why would think it’s beneficial to make up a green on guillo, it’s not like he was your top tr so I don’t see the benefit in doing that. I think the way you went about that whole thing felt inconsistent and Nutella noticed that before she died, and I think that’s why she was day vigged over me. I can defs see a world where you’re concerned nutella is about to embark on a classic Nutella tunnel and you wanted that dealt with. Sigs shot was just so sudden and there’s no build up to it so yeah I do think it was a panic shot to get rid of her. Also you later claimed to
Have a vest and again I don’t see why u outed that the time you did. You love being clear, if you kept the info to yourself and someone shot you then you become clear so I don’t see the point of outing the vest when you did, but claiming a vest does give a reason for you to be alive late game. People can ask why isn’t Alexa dead and you can just cos of a vest

I was struggling to come up with a solve last night. I had town cleared alota slots in my head and we reached a point where slots like c4 started to come into question just because we don’t know where else to look. But even when I put slots like c4 or jpic in my poe it just doesn’t feel right to me. And then when I reflected on the other points and I started to build a team around you the game started to make more sense. Suddenly tsp being a wolf made sense too. I don’t think tsp approaches u the way he has this game if ur town and he’s a wolf. But I can defs see alota ur interactions being possible if ur wolves together. Tsp is highpostiing but like 70% of the posts are about you. And yeah I can see a world where scum captain tsp feels obligated to not be a potato this game. And the way u responded to me earlier everytime when I felt like tsp was kinda towny, your responses felt rigid, like you
Knew he’s a wolf and your gameplay has been set on softly bussing/distancing him throughout the game. Like even when I considered that tsp high posting might be clearing for him you said it’s nai because u wolfed with him before but the game we wolfed together he wasn’t even a high poster in the sense he has been this game, so it just feels fabricated.

I’m coming around to guillo
Maybe being town and I think ur approach to him has been pockety. You’ve consistently done a classic scumtell throughout the game in the way you’ve approached his slot but I’m gonna keep what that tell is to myself cos ur wolf game too OP and this tell helped me catch Katze in dvale and generally works on strong wolves. Also I think you perspective slipped earlier in the game when you said the way I was pushing guillo showed that I lacked tmi on guillo.

You also have this thing where your trs in general are more nuanced imo and thought out than your srs. Like I think people with super strong villa games like you and ladd when you roll wolf you tend to have great towncases on other town, good wolf cases on other wolves but your pushes onto townies seems to be lacking and when they do come they generally feel kinda reachy/scummy. It’s how I felt when ladd cased vanity right away in that game and why I thought he was a wolf. Your play just feels like your focusing more on positioning and pocketing people like c4, 112 etc and I feel that way because whilst you are tr’ing them for what I believe to be the right reasons, I don’t really see you pushing any townies. And yes I know this argument seems wtf “ur scum reading me because I’m not hard pushing townies” but it’s true. It happens in games. No matter how good of a villa you or anyone else is are at times In everyone’s game as town theyre just gonna be pushing a townie in a game at one point or another. I haven’t really seen you gone out of your way to push anybody with the same vigor I generally do when you’re town. I think you’re kinda just treading on eggshells and buttering people up imo

I think the way you were reading my slot on d2 was kinda scummy. People got all caught on up some level 0 bs that me reacting to you instead of the 5 people voting me was bad but it isn’t. I expect different things from different people and ur the best illario reader. My d1 Was a textbook towny approach for me. You know how you said earlier that tsp is scummy because normally he just locks u in as town and doesn’t really fuss around too much. Well yeah you do the same normally, when I’m not scum by d1 u just know I’m town and lock me in. It didn’t make sense for you to all of a sudden become nervous that I’m scum just because I was subdued or posting when barely even 12 hours of a 72 h day had passed. I think when you have two people who know each other well and one is scum, the one whose scum tries to hide tmi by looking like they’re tossing and turning on the other slot and then they decide on them being town or they just insta townlock them and hope for the best but I think ur more versatile than to go for that approach. I think if ur town u just know I’m town there and don’t bother tinfoiling me just because some people who have no idea how to read me were wary, I don’t see how you would let that trumph over your own read on me when you know ur much better than everyone at reading me.

Despite all this, I stand by what I said. I’m not gonna push you, I’m not gonna vote you, I want you to win regardless, towns annoyed me so Idc about carrying them. And Dw about this post having an effect on the game it’s way too long that I doubt anybody is gonna read it properly and the ones who do will just gloss over

[Sloonei]

If creature AND alexa are wolves it means my entire worldview is wrong

what's your entire worldview?

[ilario]

^ that post I made and my first point was that her alison shot was scummy because of how rushed it was. Alison sr mac that entire day, she also fossed creature. That’s why I think she can be with both and she rushed the shot so alison could no longer push her team

[ilario]

If creature AND alexa are wolves it means my entire worldview is wrong

It’s okay, there’s a good chance I’m gonna be pushed when I’m at uni tmrw, just know that almost everything I’ve done is to help town, that part is important.

[Justplayingitcool]

If creature AND alexa are wolves it means my entire worldview is wrong

what's your entire worldview?

That they are town - i have been townreading creature since D2 and thought the mech stuff is in Alexa’s favour

Wilgy
Pao
Sabie
Sloonei

Is my current PoE from the top of my head, but I appreciate i need to look back and read mac’s iso when i have time. Radish had you as town iirc so im gonna respect his legacy

[ilario]

If ur trying to hunt wolves then reading macs iso isn’t the way to go about it. His plan was to spew his team, it was never to endgame himself

[Justplayingitcool]

Also explain the nk

[ilario]

I can see Mac and creature being a team, tbh I probably wouldn’t have looked into creature until tomorrow but his comment about me ignoring creature pinged me like crazy and felt like a wolf trying to tie a town to his wolfbro

/vote creature

/vote mac

Gn

someone please give me the cliffnotes on what's going on today?

Tsp wolf whose lolcatting after redcheck

Creature also a wolf

Mac probably his partner who spent today trying to distance so his partners don’t look aligned to him after he does the soup kill tn

So that leaves 2 mafia left

[ilario]

And all of this isn’t something I’m making up on the spot, you can see from my posts yesterday I felt strongly about this

[ilario]

Also explain the nk

ull understand once u see my role

[Justplayingitcool]

If you think u were the nk (when alexa was supposedly shot) then i have info that this is incorrect

[ilario]

I can make myself untargetable at night, keep that in mind when deliberating your role into mine and the night actions

[Sloonei]

at any rate, i think the voice I'd most like to hear right now is @alexa's. If she is town, today is potentially her last chance to help guide us to a win. And she also holds the answers to a lot of questions right now.

[Sloonei]

If creature AND alexa are wolves it means my entire worldview is wrong

what's your entire worldview?

That they are town - i have been townreading creature since D2 and thought the mech stuff is in Alexa’s favour

Wilgy
Pao
Sabie
Sloonei

Is my current PoE from the top of my head, but I appreciate i need to look back and read mac’s iso when i have time. Radish had you as town iirc so im gonna respect his legacy

Ask yourself how the mafia team is likely to be playing this phase.

[Justplayingitcool]

If creature AND alexa are wolves it means my entire worldview is wrong

what's your entire worldview?

That they are town - i have been townreading creature since D2 and thought the mech stuff is in Alexa’s favour

Wilgy
Pao
Sabie
Sloonei

Is my current PoE from the top of my head, but I appreciate i need to look back and read mac’s iso when i have time. Radish had you as town iirc so im gonna respect his legacy

Ask yourself how the mafia team is likely to be playing this phase.

To annoy me

Depends on the team but i guess in generally they’d be trying to interpret mac/tsp spew asap to fit their preferred worldview

[Sloonei]

Alexa being mafia also helps a bit to explain why there has been no soup kill. Without her there's really only... three? two? town roles that are known.

[ilario]

The thing that I don’t understand is, if there’s a wolf in the trio of bel Alexa and pao, why didn’t they warn mac he was gonna get shot so he can try to get a soup off on his way out?

I can only think of two answers, 1. Not every wolf can do the soup and it’s just a specific role 2. Wolves were playing greedy and wanted to get more mech info before the soup

There is a third option in that no wolves were in that chat, but even so, I think wolf mac knew yesterday that writing was on the wall and would have thought about doing the soup kill.

If it’s option 1, then it means whoever has the soup role is relatively deep and that’s why they haven’t used it yet so that rules out people like sabie pao etc

[Justplayingitcool]

I guess the most suspicious thing i find about alexa is that she was shot n3? But wasn’t double tapped for the kill and they went for radishes instead

[sabie12]

I will explain that alexa and belzy's super strong push towards Mac and then paopan gave me some pause and I wanted to make sure it was the right decision. I went through macyo's ISO and there were some interactions with dizzy that obviously we know now are fabricated but I wanted to discuss and make sure. I don't feel like being cautious is a bad thing this stage of the game. Macyo seemed like more likely a hit and even though I do find pao scummy I didn't want to be wrong. The fact that alexa has outed peoples roles without them even being pushed or needing to also made me a bit wary.

[Sloonei]

The thing that I don’t understand is, if there’s a wolf in the trio of bel Alexa and pao, why didn’t they warn mac he was gonna get shot so he can try to get a soup off on his way out?

I can only think of two answers, 1. Not every wolf can do the soup and it’s just a specific role 2. Wolves were playing greedy and wanted to get more mech info before the soup

There is a third option in that no wolves were in that chat, but even so, I think wolf mac knew yesterday that writing was on the wall and would have thought about doing the soup kill.

If it’s option 1, then it means whoever has the soup role is relatively deep and that’s why they haven’t used it yet so that rules out people like sabie pao etc

Cabbage Stew

Mafia have access to a soup kill--how does this work? Glad you asked! Once per game, Mafia can:

Forgo their factional kill
Designate one team member as the Soup Chef, this member cannot use any of their role abilities (note that a goon, if one exists, can only perform a soup kill if they are the last remaining team Mafia member)

[Sloonei]

I will explain that alexa and belzy's super strong push towards Mac and then paopan gave me some pause and I wanted to make sure it was the right decision. I went through macyo's ISO and there were some interactions with dizzy that obviously we know now are fabricated but I wanted to discuss and make sure. I don't feel like being cautious is a bad thing this stage of the game. Macyo seemed like more likely a hit and even though I do find pao scummy I didn't want to be wrong. The fact that alexa has outed peoples roles without them even being pushed or needing to also made me a bit wary.

Can you walk us through what exactly happened in your chat with belzy and alexa? How did the conversation unfold, and how did you all arrive at Macyo?

[ilario]

The thing that I don’t understand is, if there’s a wolf in the trio of bel Alexa and pao, why didn’t they warn mac he was gonna get shot so he can try to get a soup off on his way out?

I can only think of two answers, 1. Not every wolf can do the soup and it’s just a specific role 2. Wolves were playing greedy and wanted to get more mech info before the soup

There is a third option in that no wolves were in that chat, but even so, I think wolf mac knew yesterday that writing was on the wall and would have thought about doing the soup kill.

If it’s option 1, then it means whoever has the soup role is relatively deep and that’s why they haven’t used it yet so that rules out people like sabie pao etc

Cabbage Stew

Mafia have access to a soup kill--how does this work? Glad you asked! Once per game, Mafia can:

Forgo their factional kill
Designate one team member as the Soup Chef, this member cannot use any of their role abilities (note that a goon, if one exists, can only perform a soup kill if they are the last remaining team Mafia member)

So that implies anyone can use the soup? In which case I really wonder why mac didn’t use it

[sabie12]

So it sounds like mafia designates someone at the time of the soup kill rather than ahead of time but it can't be a vanilla role unless no one is left. So they couldn't just throw it to macyo even if they wanted to.

[ilario]

Oh but they lose their factional

Hmmm still feels like soup is more valuable? Idk maybe they wanted to get away with one more day of mech info

[ilario]

Okay fk it I’m gonna out all my mech info just to prove I’m on ur side

[ilario]

This is probably a dumb idea but fk it, it isn’t an ilario game if I don’t wild out Atleast once

[Sloonei]

The thing that I don’t understand is, if there’s a wolf in the trio of bel Alexa and pao, why didn’t they warn mac he was gonna get shot so he can try to get a soup off on his way out?

I can only think of two answers, 1. Not every wolf can do the soup and it’s just a specific role 2. Wolves were playing greedy and wanted to get more mech info before the soup

There is a third option in that no wolves were in that chat, but even so, I think wolf mac knew yesterday that writing was on the wall and would have thought about doing the soup kill.

If it’s option 1, then it means whoever has the soup role is relatively deep and that’s why they haven’t used it yet so that rules out people like sabie pao etc

Cabbage Stew

Mafia have access to a soup kill--how does this work? Glad you asked! Once per game, Mafia can:

Forgo their factional kill
Designate one team member as the Soup Chef, this member cannot use any of their role abilities (note that a goon, if one exists, can only perform a soup kill if they are the last remaining team Mafia member)

So that implies anyone can use the soup? In which case I really wonder why mac didn’t use it

It implies anyone but Mac can use it, I think. They were vanilla, aka a goon

[Sloonei]

Okay fk it I’m gonna out all my mech info just to prove I’m on ur side

Not necessary