[TOWN WIN] Lost in Space Mafia

[Fext]

Wow Alison quoted me a lot

[NotAnAxehole]

It's probably Alison + Seanzie

[Fext]

The two scummiest players in the game are LC and Fext.

LC is townreading Fext beacuse Fext is townreading him.

Fext is townreading LC because LC's posts are "unfiltered and uncensored" despite LC admitting that he performatively exaggerated his read on Mac in order to prove something.

I very much doubt they are both town. There is a reasonable chance they are both scum although I don't like to do preflips. But I find it very hard to believe that this amount of nonsense is spewed forth from the mouth of two townies posting in good faith.

If we both flip green I expect this to always be lynched in F5 and blame her if green tbhtbh

[Fext]

It's probably Alison + Seanzie

meh

The two scummiest players in the game are LC and Fext.

LC is townreading Fext beacuse Fext is townreading him.

Fext is townreading LC because LC's posts are "unfiltered and uncensored" despite LC admitting that he performatively exaggerated his read on Mac in order to prove something.

I very much doubt they are both town. There is a reasonable chance they are both scum although I don't like to do preflips. But I find it very hard to believe that this amount of nonsense is spewed forth from the mouth of two townies posting in good faith.

All this is before even taking into account Seanzie's theory that Fext knew about LC's scum win because he was informed in scum chat.

This was Mac's point originally not Seanzie's and that'd be a weird thing to misattribute to a partner

That being said the blatant setup to chain into LC regardless of my flip is WORRYING

[DrWilgy]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[Fext]

It's a solo tunnel on the back of an existing wagon

Alison and Wilgy were on me beforehand and iirc neither has shown themselves since Mac first accused LC and I of being partners, and considering he himself referred to it as "no reason" or some such I get the impression he isn't at sll convinced he actually found a sign of an exact pairing

Meaning you're just kinda running full bore into crazytown atm and that's weird to me in a way that is far more reminiscent of your actions in the game we played where you were scum than in the game where you were town

Which game was that?

My memory of Seanzie's scum game is that he tries to be likeable and affable, and is far less confrontational and sharp. I don't recall him playing in a wild or chaotic way as scum.

Gray Nite's School of Rock Mafia on Mafia Cafe

Specifically start of Day 2

[Fext]

It's a solo tunnel on the back of an existing wagon

Alison and Wilgy were on me beforehand and iirc neither has shown themselves since Mac first accused LC and I of being partners, and considering he himself referred to it as "no reason" or some such I get the impression he isn't at sll convinced he actually found a sign of an exact pairing

Meaning you're just kinda running full bore into crazytown atm and that's weird to me in a way that is far more reminiscent of your actions in the game we played where you were scum than in the game where you were town

Which game was that?

My memory of Seanzie's scum game is that he tries to be likeable and affable, and is far less confrontational and sharp. I don't recall him playing in a wild or chaotic way as scum.

Gray Nite's School of Rock Mafia on Mafia Cafe

Specifically start of Day 2

[Fext]

Here's where I'm at.

I have strong scumreads on Fext and LC and am confident at least one of them is mafia.

NAA and Creature are both afk slots who don't care much about the game. This is effectively null behavior for them given their playing style/meta, maybe on the scummy end for Creature because it suggests he could be frozen (especially in, say, Fext/Creature scumteam worlds where he loses motivation after seeing his partner dumpstered and just drops a weaksauce townread on him and walks off). I'm effectively treating them as do-nothing lowposters.

I have been in agreement with most of Mac's reads except for his sudden backswing on Fext for reasons I don't grasp/agree with. This concerns me, especially if Fext is scum, because he has been known to scumread his partner the entire day and then suddenly reverse the read citing some bullshit, effectively allowing him to shield his partner while having the thread remember him as attacking them. It's possible this is what he's doing with Fext; I'm not super inclined to pursue that theory today because it is a preflip association and even if it is true we should kill Fext anyway. His posting has been fine but not WIMbot-obvious-town. I don't intend to kill him today because he is Mac and will probably have a better grasp on him after some flips.

I think Seanzie and Falcon have both been very townie and I am completely unconcerned about them.

Wilgy's posting has been good, his jabbing at Fext has been good, and his determination to engage/solve through the sheriff gimmick instead of hiding behind it is townie. I misread him as town recently, so I'm a little cautious, but that was a game I replaced out early so who knows if I would have gotten there. He has done nothing scummy and I like the direction of his pushes - strong townlean.

Your worldview is shot and I would STRONGLY encourage you, if you are town, to heavily re-evaluate everything if I flip today

[Fext]

it did ping me a bit when Alison said me/her/mac are all on Fext and have good D1 reads... I'm not sure what game she would have gotten that impression from me on, so it felt a bit weird/pockety/lumping herself in, but meh, this is small fries compared to Fext.

Did you not say that yourself in our last game

[Fext]

If Fext does flip town though, I think Mac deserves more scrutiny though. NAA has made good points that Mac has acted a bit weird around the Fext push, and even things like Mac townreading Alison earlier seemed kinda off.

Again though, this is all thoughts for post-Fext flip. If I'm right on him, we're in great shape, and if not, I need to know that asap.

gross

you have no "need" to know if you're wrong on me via flipping me when using your head will do

[Fext]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

Same at you as at Alison

[Fext]

There is deadass zero reason to have only worlds with me and it's starting to grate ngl

Especially with the big talk from certain players about "oh man my D1 reads are so good"

kinda sad ngl

[Fext]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

I would argue that Fext flip also gives us little information. I would also argue that flipping based on what provides more information is a bad strategy - specifically in 7v2.

Agreed on both counts

[NotAnAxehole]

There is deadass zero reason to have only worlds with me and it's starting to grate ngl

Especially with the big talk from certain players about "oh man my D1 reads are so good"

kinda sad ngl

I mean, take that with a grain of salt.

Mac is a good player, so I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, I don't remember the last time (or if I've ever seen) Mac hit mafia on D1. I wouldn't consider Seanzie a particularly good or bad D1 player.

[Fext]

Not particularly enthused about a Creature vote either but it sounds like there may be some meta at play here that I'm not familiar with

Or is that just Alison

[NotAnAxehole]

Not particularly enthused about a Creature vote either but it sounds like there may be some meta at play here that I'm not familiar with

Or is that just Alison

There's no meta to indicate Creature is mafia. However there is meta to indicate that Creature gets killed a LOT on The Syndicate.

[Fext]

There is deadass zero reason to have only worlds with me and it's starting to grate ngl

Especially with the big talk from certain players about "oh man my D1 reads are so good"

kinda sad ngl

I mean, take that with a grain of salt.

Mac is a good player, so I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, I don't remember the last time (or if I've ever seen) Mac hit mafia on D1. I wouldn't consider Seanzie a particularly good or bad D1 player.

I don't think either of those players have called their own D1 play particularly good

[DrWilgy]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

Same at you as at Alison

You referring to this:
'Your worldview is shot and I would STRONGLY encourage you, if you are town, to heavily re-evaluate everything if I flip today'

[NotAnAxehole]

I wouldn't be surprised if Creature died today, I don't think it's a particularly good (or bad) kill.

[Fext]

Not particularly enthused about a Creature vote either but it sounds like there may be some meta at play here that I'm not familiar with

Or is that just Alison

There's no meta to indicate Creature is mafia. However there is meta to indicate that Creature gets killed a LOT on The Syndicate.

p sure somebody mentioned sussing creature for meta

One sec

[Fext]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

Same at you as at Alison

You referring to this:
'Your worldview is shot and I would STRONGLY encourage you, if you are town, to heavily re-evaluate everything if I flip today'

Yes

[NotAnAxehole]

There is deadass zero reason to have only worlds with me and it's starting to grate ngl

Especially with the big talk from certain players about "oh man my D1 reads are so good"

kinda sad ngl

I mean, take that with a grain of salt.

Mac is a good player, so I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, I don't remember the last time (or if I've ever seen) Mac hit mafia on D1. I wouldn't consider Seanzie a particularly good or bad D1 player.

I don't think either of those players have called their own D1 play particularly good

And therefore... My vote.

[Fext]

NAA and Creature are both afk slots who don't care much about the game. This is effectively null behavior for them given their playing style/meta, maybe on the scummy end for Creature because it suggests he could be frozen (especially in, say, Fext/Creature scumteam worlds where he loses motivation after seeing his partner dumpstered and just drops a weaksauce townread on him and walks off).

[Fext]

I also think the assertion my thoughts are "illogical and therefore fake" are super baseless but ofc I do

[Fext]

Despite all that I'm not fully convinced she's a hit

Could just be high on her own supply

[Fext]

Still the whole "at least one is mafia" bit feels p bad

[NotAnAxehole]

NAA and Creature are both afk slots who don't care much about the game. This is effectively null behavior for them given their playing style/meta, maybe on the scummy end for Creature because it suggests he could be frozen (especially in, say, Fext/Creature scumteam worlds where he loses motivation after seeing his partner dumpstered and just drops a weaksauce townread on him and walks off).

I mean this is obviously bad / biased meta. Creature is typically a low poster though, so that much is accurate.

[Fext]

Why do you specifically think she's mafia here NAA

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Care to share how this fits with your "every world has Fext" post?

[NotAnAxehole]

Despite all that I'm not fully convinced she's a hit

Could just be high on her own supply

There's no reason to think this with Alison. If she's confidently wrong (which you would know for a fact), then she's just mafia - specifically in this situation where she demonstrated null / uncertain reads on other players in the game - lots of them.

There's a difference between a well respected (for their reads) player being wrong, and being confidently tunnel wrong.

[NotAnAxehole]

Why do you specifically think she's mafia here NAA

I don't generally give my whole thought process, but I'll feed you some little bits that I think you might agree with like the one I just gave.

[NotAnAxehole]

I also think there's a very strong connection to both Alison - Seanzie being mafia if one of them is.

[DrWilgy]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Care to share how this fits with your "every world has Fext" post?

I do say I think you have misconstrued my words now partner.

Detailing possibilities isn't stating that those possibilities are correct. What I reckon to be most likely correct now is Fext/Creature. If I am wrong, I'm just about as likely to be wrong on Fext as I am Creature, but both of these votes meet that end goal.

If I'm wrong, well, I'd just be doin Fext a disservice if I killed them. If I'm wrong on creature, that's somethin I can live wit.

[Fext]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Care to share how this fits with your "every world has Fext" post?

ngl I specifically chose not to ask this question

that being said now that somebody else did I both agree but am also not exactly complaining

[Fext]

as in "agree it's a tad weird"

[Fext]

Why do you specifically think she's mafia here NAA

I don't generally give my whole thought process, but I'll feed you some little bits that I think you might agree with like the one I just gave.

Uh

Why

[Fext]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Care to share how this fits with your "every world has Fext" post?

I do say I think you have misconstrued my words now partner.

Detailing possibilities isn't stating that those possibilities are correct. What I reckon to be most likely correct now is Fext/Creature. If I am wrong, I'm just about as likely to be wrong on Fext as I am Creature, but both of these votes meet that end goal.

If I'm wrong, well, I'd just be doin Fext a disservice if I killed them. If I'm wrong on creature, that's somethin I can live wit.

Uh

Thanks?

[falcon45ca]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

I would argue that Fext flip also gives us little information. I would also argue that flipping based on what provides more information is a bad strategy - specifically in 7v2.

He has over 120 posts, and lots of interactions


It's impossible for us to not get a good about of info from their flip.

[DrWilgy]

I reckon that it's natural to have an inclination towards 'who would I rather lose to'

Do I want my cattle stolen by the hound who risked it's life, or the buzzard just waitin fer one to fall?

[Fext]

Despite all that I'm not fully convinced she's a hit

Could just be high on her own supply

There's no reason to think this with Alison. If she's confidently wrong (which you would know for a fact), then she's just mafia - specifically in this situation where she demonstrated null / uncertain reads on other players in the game - lots of them.

There's a difference between a well respected (for their reads) player being wrong, and being confidently tunnel wrong.

Would anybody else like to comment on the veracity of this

[falcon45ca]

Despite all that I'm not fully convinced she's a hit

Could just be high on her own supply

There's no reason to think this with Alison. If she's confidently wrong (which you would know for a fact), then she's just mafia - specifically in this situation where she demonstrated null / uncertain reads on other players in the game - lots of them.

There's a difference between a well respected (for their reads) player being wrong, and being confidently tunnel wrong.

He's hedging her slot, don't ya think?

[Fext]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

I would argue that Fext flip also gives us little information. I would also argue that flipping based on what provides more information is a bad strategy - specifically in 7v2.

He has over 120 posts, and lots of interactions


It's impossible for us to not get a good about of info from their flip.

I'd argue the info on me is low

However I would say that forcing like half the town to re-evaluate and at least one or two scum to fake re-evaluation would at least be good

Don't let people stay set in their ways if I go over

[NotAnAxehole]

Why do you specifically think she's mafia here NAA

I don't generally give my whole thought process, but I'll feed you some little bits that I think you might agree with like the one I just gave.

Uh

Why

Because me giving reads primarily helps you read me, it has very little correlation to people changing their minds. There are other factors which have a higher probability of moving votes... Explaining my reads isn't really one of them. Targeting things that people might find scummy is more effective (but also not super effective, so sometimes I don't even bother with that depending on the player).

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Care to share how this fits with your "every world has Fext" post?

I do say I think you have misconstrued my words now partner.

Detailing possibilities isn't stating that those possibilities are correct. What I reckon to be most likely correct now is Fext/Creature. If I am wrong, I'm just about as likely to be wrong on Fext as I am Creature, but both of these votes meet that end goal.

If I'm wrong, well, I'd just be doin Fext a disservice if I killed them. If I'm wrong on creature, that's somethin I can live wit.

I don't mean to misconstrue your words, but I really don't think my summary is far off base given what you wrote before.

Fext is someone whose flip will give a ton of information based on how many takes have been given on them and also how much they've said. Creature's flip would be nearly infoless.

[Fext]

Despite all that I'm not fully convinced she's a hit

Could just be high on her own supply

There's no reason to think this with Alison. If she's confidently wrong (which you would know for a fact), then she's just mafia - specifically in this situation where she demonstrated null / uncertain reads on other players in the game - lots of them.

There's a difference between a well respected (for their reads) player being wrong, and being confidently tunnel wrong.

He's hedging her slot, don't ya think?

I'd much sooner go Seanzie

You can call that whatever you'd like

[Fext]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Care to share how this fits with your "every world has Fext" post?

I do say I think you have misconstrued my words now partner.

Detailing possibilities isn't stating that those possibilities are correct. What I reckon to be most likely correct now is Fext/Creature. If I am wrong, I'm just about as likely to be wrong on Fext as I am Creature, but both of these votes meet that end goal.

If I'm wrong, well, I'd just be doin Fext a disservice if I killed them. If I'm wrong on creature, that's somethin I can live wit.

I don't mean to misconstrue your words, but I really don't think my summary is far off base given what you wrote before.

Fext is someone whose flip will give a ton of information based on how many takes have been given on them and also how much they've said. Creature's flip would be nearly infoless.

Sure but there's a chance it's not town

[NotAnAxehole]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

I would argue that Fext flip also gives us little information. I would also argue that flipping based on what provides more information is a bad strategy - specifically in 7v2.

He has over 120 posts, and lots of interactions


It's impossible for us to not get a good about of info from their flip.

Despite all that I'm not fully convinced she's a hit

Could just be high on her own supply

There's no reason to think this with Alison. If she's confidently wrong (which you would know for a fact), then she's just mafia - specifically in this situation where she demonstrated null / uncertain reads on other players in the game - lots of them.

There's a difference between a well respected (for their reads) player being wrong, and being confidently tunnel wrong.

He's hedging her slot, don't ya think?

I don't particularly agree with either of these.

[falcon45ca]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

I would argue that Fext flip also gives us little information. I would also argue that flipping based on what provides more information is a bad strategy - specifically in 7v2.

He has over 120 posts, and lots of interactions


It's impossible for us to not get a good about of info from their flip.

I'd argue the info on me is low

However I would say that forcing like half the town to re-evaluate and at least one or two scum to fake re-evaluation would at least be good

Don't let people stay set in their ways if I go over

You think we gain little info from your flip, eh?



OK.

[Seanzie]

Despite all that I'm not fully convinced she's a hit

Could just be high on her own supply

There's no reason to think this with Alison. If she's confidently wrong (which you would know for a fact), then she's just mafia - specifically in this situation where she demonstrated null / uncertain reads on other players in the game - lots of them.

There's a difference between a well respected (for their reads) player being wrong, and being confidently tunnel wrong.

He's hedging her slot, don't ya think?

I'd much sooner go Seanzie

You can call that whatever you'd like

Can you give takes on everyone? Just like a sentence or two each, possibly with an ordered list? If you flip town, it will be helpful.

[NotAnAxehole]

So I definitely think Fext is the right choice of chop today, but I also think the people currently on Fext should state why they're voting. He brought up a good point that some of the people were voting Fext for a while.

@Alison @DrWilgy @MacDougall

Do you all think Fext scumslipped? If not, do you still think he should be the yeet? Why/why not?

If he flips scum, possible partners?

Well now, I do think I stated quite plain that I do think that there is some disgenuine reading going on in here.

I reckon that I could also vote for Creature here, but that'd generate us little to no vantage if I'm wrong.

My day 1 lock is Fext/Creature.

Other possibilities are as follows:
I could see you and Fext.
I could see LC and Fext.
I could see NAA and Fext.

I would argue that Fext flip also gives us little information. I would also argue that flipping based on what provides more information is a bad strategy - specifically in 7v2.

He has over 120 posts, and lots of interactions


It's impossible for us to not get a good about of info from their flip.

I'd argue the info on me is low

However I would say that forcing like half the town to re-evaluate and at least one or two scum to fake re-evaluation would at least be good

Don't let people stay set in their ways if I go over

You think we gain little info from your flip, eh?



OK.

I mean, the issue is, like Mac pointed out, he's town telling hard. So then he goes over, people are like... Obvious, yeah in hindsight it's obvious that he was town... Ok, who do we target, on wagon or off wagon? People exploiting the fact that he's obviously town but going over because new or people who are pushing the LHF in a game that requires very few misselims?