Philosophy Mafia 2: Electric Boogaloo

[falcon45ca]

And if Marmot only thinks I'm Town cuz of Mac's investigation after seeing my scum game in Fleabag, then that's fucking wierd too.

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

[falcon45ca]

I'm also frustrated because I'm pouring an effort and a half into this game, and am currently being run up for kinda shoddy reasons and meta-comparisons.

this is exactly how i feel. barely anyone has tried to talk to me today or critically engaged with me but im probably in contention to be chopped today because people who dont know how to read me would rather just write me off as a potential wolf instead of doing the hard work of trying to read me. i should be blatantly town to anyone that's paying half attention to this game and i hate that illario is playing into the annoying paranoia against my slot by putting me in a dichotomy with mac with shoddy reasoning. i feel like the only way a lot of people in this game know how to read me is when i show emotion or when i get annoyed, and i find that annoying because i think it's cheap to clear myself off of emotion

that was a very self pitying woe-is-me post but i had to get it off my chest because the way that people approach reading my slot can be really frustrating to deal with

okay actually now that i wrote that i dont feel like it's entirely fair and im overreacting to mild pressure

back to scumhunting

Fairly towny IMO

[Dyslexicon]

Ya know, Dizzy and I scummed together not too long ago and won. While we've played with each other before (...does that sound weird?...nah) I feel it was the first time we kinda got to know each other a bit.


The next game we played, we were both town I believe. I don't think it was on this site, maybe MafiaCafe? Dizzy had a healthy uncertainty/paranoia on my slot, which is normal and to be expected I'd say after a successful Maf campaign together.


I'm not getting any sense of that here. Not even a whiff. It's like he's content to leave my slot well the fuxk alone, which I find strange.

You’re literally confirmed town if Mac is town (and probably anyway)

Can people think for a second.

Jesus fucking christ

Sorry, but why is this even happening

[Marmot]

When people are greenchecked, isn't it normal for them to be townread? Would you prefer I ignore it and scrutinize you otherwise falcon?

Why are you comparing this to one of your scum games?

[anne]

since i might die today i figure ill just claim. my role is that i can pick a player and then submit a separate list of players and if player #1 targeted anyone on that list i will get feedback. i didn't understand how my role worked and thought it would tell me specifically who that person visited on that list so i submitted a list of everyone in the game

[anne]

but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

[falcon45ca]

Ya know, Dizzy and I scummed together not too long ago and won. While we've played with each other before (...does that sound weird?...nah) I feel it was the first time we kinda got to know each other a bit.


The next game we played, we were both town I believe. I don't think it was on this site, maybe MafiaCafe? Dizzy had a healthy uncertainty/paranoia on my slot, which is normal and to be expected I'd say after a successful Maf campaign together.


I'm not getting any sense of that here. Not even a whiff. It's like he's content to leave my slot well the fuxk alone, which I find strange.

You’re literally confirmed town if Mac is town (and probably anyway)

Can people think for a second.

Jesus fucking christ

Sorry, but why is this even happening

If Mac is town, which you don't seem to really question like even a little bit.

Probably anyway, as in I'm my towny self? But that's true of the last game I just mentioned and you questioned my slot then. Why not now?


Why is this happening? Like, are you beyond questioning & reproach?

[NotAnAxehole]

I do feel a bit stifled by the atmosphere of this game in that I don't feel I can be lighter in tone

Honestly this comes through and I was thinking it's scummy

[falcon45ca]

When people are greenchecked, isn't it normal for them to be townread? Would you prefer I ignore it and scrutinize you otherwise falcon?

Why are you comparing this to one of your scum games?

Your first paragraph is a false equivalency fallacy. You don't have to 100% ignore the greencheck or 100% accept it. You can not be sure about it, you can question it. You don't seem to be doing that at all.



I'm comparing it to my scum game cuz your only stated reason for town reading me is based off a neighborhood check, not for my play at all.



Your also answering my questions with questions, which is interesting

[falcon45ca]

I do feel a bit stifled by the atmosphere of this game in that I don't feel I can be lighter in tone

Honestly this comes through and I was thinking it's scummy

Towny mindmeld?

[falcon45ca]

But yeah I decided to vote mac anyways because I’m thinking about the claim some more and their role makes 0 sense to me. So they’re in a chat, and they have a cop check on each other but once they use the check they become lovers?? What’s the point of that dynamic? Why even have the cop check if they’re essentially gonna be tied together, why not start them out as lovers? Idk feels like something mac coulda come up with to protect himself from being voted. I liked that Mac noticed that towny line from naa but then he won’t on to do nothing with it, so meh that might have just been a pocket attempt from mac.

The role works for both Mac & I the same way. The first one of us to check the other makes us lovers, and alerts the Maf it happened. We don't have a check on each other, he has the check on me. It only works 1 way

It's true. He's not making it up. That's the role. That's why I feel Mac will self resolve...either the Maf kill one of us and we both die, or if we're alive near end game

[NotAnAxehole]

I do feel a bit stifled by the atmosphere of this game in that I don't feel I can be lighter in tone

Honestly this comes through and I was thinking it's scummy

Towny mindmeld?

idk, the only thing that could sway me back onto Marmot is if he keeps this awful read on me, because that would be lazy and Marmot is really "trying hard" this game. So yeah, it's hard to see that read sticking if he's town.

Reasons why it's a lazy read and it should never stick:

1) If I were mafia, I just switch back onto Anne in the dying seconds of the day which I was present for... 6-6 tie. The following day, I embrace the stupid game throwing persona that Lime Coke likes to blame his failures on

Anne simply isn't mafia because of when and how JJJ voted her, so you can't even make the argument "well, Anne could be mafia".

Like yeah, just that. It's like, at a base level of analysis the vote is 7-5, everyone already thinks NAA is a loose cannon, if I'm mafia, just be a loose cannon. Like it's such a straightforward play I wouldn't think twice about it.

[NotAnAxehole]

I rather flip SPF

[NotAnAxehole]

Also, mafia probably gets the equivalent of 2KP (via modkill) tonight due to iaafr purposefully violating his post count

Don't do it on purpose

Whatever you have to say after your post count is up isn't worth the modkill.

[NotAnAxehole]

Does anyone else get the vibe that SPF and Mac could be partners?

[cassandra]

I'm kind of surprised by how confident Dizzy is that I'm town ngl

I'll use my last post later to do something productive

[Marmot]

When people are greenchecked, isn't it normal for them to be townread? Would you prefer I ignore it and scrutinize you otherwise falcon?

Why are you comparing this to one of your scum games?

Your first paragraph is a false equivalency fallacy. You don't have to 100% ignore the greencheck or 100% accept it. You can not be sure about it, you can question it. You don't seem to be doing that at all.



I'm comparing it to my scum game cuz your only stated reason for town reading me is based off a neighborhood check, not for my play at all.



Your also answering my questions with questions, which is interesting

I'm clearing you right now specifically because if Mac is town, you are always town, barring some weird lie from Mac. If Mac is scum, there is still a reasonable chance that you're town, but yes it is less certain.

That still doesn't seem related to your recent scum game, or if it is, I'm missing something.


Also, you didn't ask a question to begin with my dude.

[falcon45ca]

When people are greenchecked, isn't it normal for them to be townread? Would you prefer I ignore it and scrutinize you otherwise falcon?

Why are you comparing this to one of your scum games?

Your first paragraph is a false equivalency fallacy. You don't have to 100% ignore the greencheck or 100% accept it. You can not be sure about it, you can question it. You don't seem to be doing that at all.



I'm comparing it to my scum game cuz your only stated reason for town reading me is based off a neighborhood check, not for my play at all.



Your also answering my questions with questions, which is interesting

I'm clearing you right now specifically because if Mac is town, you are always town, barring some weird lie from Mac. If Mac is scum, there is still a reasonable chance that you're town, but yes it is less certain.

That still doesn't seem related to your recent scum game, or if it is, I'm missing something.


Also, you didn't ask a question to begin with my dude.

I meant my questioning of you in general, not a specific question per se.



OK, I have a better sense of your read so

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

[nutella]

Bruh you EMers post so many paragraphs smh be like me and iaafr, short and snappy

Anyway I really think dizzy is town so dont vote him

[nutella]

but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

my action failed though


anyway iaafrs last post was good and I'll probably end voting in his poe rather than on spf bc he seems confident

and im just not gonna engage with leetic at all anymore, they just have no clue how to read me and refuse to reevaluate even when p much everyone else has explained multiple valid reasons to townread me

[Dyslexicon]

Ya know, Dizzy and I scummed together not too long ago and won. While we've played with each other before (...does that sound weird?...nah) I feel it was the first time we kinda got to know each other a bit.


The next game we played, we were both town I believe. I don't think it was on this site, maybe MafiaCafe? Dizzy had a healthy uncertainty/paranoia on my slot, which is normal and to be expected I'd say after a successful Maf campaign together.


I'm not getting any sense of that here. Not even a whiff. It's like he's content to leave my slot well the fuxk alone, which I find strange.

You’re literally confirmed town if Mac is town (and probably anyway)

Can people think for a second.

Jesus fucking christ

Sorry, but why is this even happening

If Mac is town, which you don't seem to really question like even a little bit.

Probably anyway, as in I'm my towny self? But that's true of the last game I just mentioned and you questioned my slot then. Why not now?


Why is this happening? Like, are you beyond questioning & reproach?

What. How can you say I'm not questioning that when I clearly have. This is pure bullshit.

Btw, your account for the mafia cafe game you are using as a random example is also wrong, since I town read you there and you claimed a named role, so there was also nothing to question.

Also, I have read almost none of your post beyond Mac claiming D1. I don't care much about you or your posts, as you are a claimed green check.

What the fuck even is this. Get real.

[Dyslexicon]

What the fuck are those posts from Falcon.

The way I'm treated by some people here makes me even less able to get a hold of this game.
Like, I realise it's part of the game, but holy shit is some of this stuff plain bad.

I'm also noting that Leetic accuses me of "breaking up town consensus" or whatever, while Esooa and Ilario criticise me for following consensus. So that's cool.

Anyway, I'm town, such shock. Feels like a couple of people want to see me as scum and whatever I do, it's gets warped into fitting that. Maybe it's because the game feels hard or something and it would be easier if I was mafia, but I'm not, so you should all probably deal with that. If anyone who scum reads me is interested, they should ask why the thing they're harping on about fits with me being mafia with what they know of me, and why it doesn't fit me being town.
I'm trying the best I can to follow, but I'm missing so much of the game, so I feel it's really hard to know what I think when I'm missing so much context. So I'm quite overwhelmed. I'm going to ISO Calexa, since I'm just banking on her being town and having a better grasp of the game than I have certainly. I'll also ISO Anne. Hopefully I'll get something out of that, or at least I can sheep.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm kind of surprised by how confident Dizzy is that I'm town ngl

I'll use my last post later to do something productive

You were one of the main people putting Jimmay under the spotlight D1, and I also don't see the mafia benefit of town reading me for not posting on D1. It's maybe kind of a lol read, even though it works, but it seems like a weird thing to do as mafia, both because why would you need to and because I think you'd be more afraid of coming across as having tmi as mafia. It just seems legit.

[ilario]

@nutella can you talk me through why u thoufht iaafr had wolf equity to u eod yesterday

[Dyslexicon]

Read Calexa's ISO. Lots of tunnelling Nut and then stopping that lol. Her style seems different here, like she's playing in a hurry or something.

@cassandra What's your PoE and why right now?

I also had this on my mind as I remember it triggered something in my head and it was before the JJJ flip

Maybe this is the game Jimmay and Sloonmeister finally landed mafia together. We can only hope.

@Dyslexicon what triggered this anyway? I feel like Sloonei at least did not post anything to make their alignment clear so why did you think Sloonei randed with Jay rather than just Jay?

It's a thing that Jimmay and Sloonei hasn't randed scum together before, and they god read each other, so if they did, the universe would implode. It's a thing we discussed last game and many others. Also I noticed both Jimmay and Sloonei wasn't really up to standards, so it seemed like it actually could be possible.

[Dyslexicon]

I don't know if I even found Calexa's ISO that towny tbh lol me. But I'm still banking on her being town so

[Dyslexicon]

I see there's more information about Mac which actually does make him self resolve. So that's cool.

[Dyslexicon]

but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

How did you get to this? Nutella said her action failed.

[Dyslexicon]

Tbh I don't find Anne's ISO scummy.
It's probably NAI since she's probably more than capable as scum, but I just don't see anything that's really scummy in it. Self deprecating, a bit. I don't even think I have that much to say about it. Maybe that how she cared about proving she was never teamed with NAA is kind of towny.

[nutella]

@nutella can you talk me through why u thoufht iaafr had wolf equity to u eod yesterday

it was specifically an association with anne based on how he approached her slot d1, i don't feel it anymore

[Dyslexicon]

Tbh I don't find Anne's ISO scummy.
It's probably NAI since she's probably more than capable as scum, but I just don't see anything that's really scummy in it. Self deprecating, a bit. I don't even think I have that much to say about it. Maybe that how she cared about proving she was never teamed with NAA is kind of towny.

Because I don't know why she would care as mafia.

Will be back to read Esooa.

[ilario]

@nutella can you talk me through why u thoufht iaafr had wolf equity to u eod yesterday

it was specifically an association with anne based on how he approached her slot d1, i don't feel it anymore

but what about his approach to her was scummy?

[nutella]

@nutella can you talk me through why u thoufht iaafr had wolf equity to u eod yesterday

it was specifically an association with anne based on how he approached her slot d1, i don't feel it anymore

but what about his approach to her was scummy?

p sure i pulled quotes at the time? just looked teammatey how he defended her/votes were on her cws etc

why does this matter to you now?

[ilario]

@nutella can you talk me through why u thoufht iaafr had wolf equity to u eod yesterday

it was specifically an association with anne based on how he approached her slot d1, i don't feel it anymore

but what about his approach to her was scummy?

p sure i pulled quotes at the time? just looked teammatey how he defended her/votes were on her cws etc

why does this matter to you now?

Trying to figure out whether this weird fixation u two have had together this game is genuine or some kinda of overblown theatre so I decided so skim over some of your interactions . Like at some point earlier today you referenced that bunny is townreading you and that makes you town, but you didn’t say the same for mac even though mac has probably played more games with you? (Just my assumption since ur both from syndicate and past games with you both have given me the impression you know each other pretty well)

[ilario]

Like I’m pretty sure I defended anne much harder than bunny did and you even saw me defend anne hard in the multiball game so it was weird to be that you didn’t bring that up but you did bring up bunny.

[staypositivefriend]

im on a bus AMA

[staypositivefriend]

this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

[staypositivefriend]

I usually agree that stretching out a day for as long as possible is beneficial, but this is a case where the game being dragged out is just causing unnecessary stress and overthinking. the atmosphere of this game kind of sucks and i think we need to collectively get it together and unite behind a couple of names, especially since I think the POE is mostly correct

[staypositivefriend]

also yah I don't want to kill dizzy today

[staypositivefriend]

can someone tell me my current postcount please? (I'm on mobile)

[NotAnAxehole]

I usually agree that stretching out a day for as long as possible is beneficial, but this is a case where the game being dragged out is just causing unnecessary stress and overthinking. the atmosphere of this game kind of sucks and i think we need to collectively get it together and unite behind a couple of names, especially since I think the POE is mostly correct

There are no hammers, the game duration is the game duration, it's not going to change regardless of what anyone does. People raging because they're being misread is just fake nonsense that you should ignore.

Also, this doesn't make me town read you.

[NotAnAxehole]

Also, "we should kill from the D1 PoE, anyone from that pool is fine as long as we stop playing mafia"

[...]

"Except this player (Dizzy), I veto this player from the D1 PoE"

Is a pretty scummy take from SPF.

[staypositivefriend]

I usually agree that stretching out a day for as long as possible is beneficial, but this is a case where the game being dragged out is just causing unnecessary stress and overthinking. the atmosphere of this game kind of sucks and i think we need to collectively get it together and unite behind a couple of names, especially since I think the POE is mostly correct

There are no hammers, the game duration is the game duration, it's not going to change regardless of what anyone does. People raging because they're being misread is just fake nonsense that you should ignore.

Also, this doesn't make me town read you.

I'm not suggesting an early hammer, but i am saying that us NOT having an early hammer is probably impacting the game negatively overall

and i don't really care if it makes you townread me, it seems obvious that you haven't genuinely tried to communicate with me regardless of your alignment

[staypositivefriend]

Also, "we should kill from the D1 PoE, anyone from that pool is fine as long as we stop playing mafia"

[...]

"Except this player (Dizzy), I veto this player from the D1 PoE"

Is a pretty scummy take from SPF.

I mean, I'm allowed to have preferences even if I think that we should kill within a specific pool of names

[NotAnAxehole]

I usually agree that stretching out a day for as long as possible is beneficial, but this is a case where the game being dragged out is just causing unnecessary stress and overthinking. the atmosphere of this game kind of sucks and i think we need to collectively get it together and unite behind a couple of names, especially since I think the POE is mostly correct

There are no hammers, the game duration is the game duration, it's not going to change regardless of what anyone does. People raging because they're being misread is just fake nonsense that you should ignore.

Also, this doesn't make me town read you.

I'm not suggesting an early hammer, but i am saying that us NOT having an early hammer is probably impacting the game negatively overall

and i don't really care if it makes you townread me, it seems obvious that you haven't genuinely tried to communicate with me regardless of your alignment

I don't read people based on my own communications... I read people based on their own performance, or rather my interpretation of their performance. Me not interacting with you in the general sense is more a result of my scum read. My read on a player could change without me ever having to interact with said player. My read on you hasn't changed. I don't interact with my scum reads, it's just how I play. I let them figure it out, or not.

[staypositivefriend]

I usually agree that stretching out a day for as long as possible is beneficial, but this is a case where the game being dragged out is just causing unnecessary stress and overthinking. the atmosphere of this game kind of sucks and i think we need to collectively get it together and unite behind a couple of names, especially since I think the POE is mostly correct

There are no hammers, the game duration is the game duration, it's not going to change regardless of what anyone does. People raging because they're being misread is just fake nonsense that you should ignore.

Also, this doesn't make me town read you.

I'm not suggesting an early hammer, but i am saying that us NOT having an early hammer is probably impacting the game negatively overall

and i don't really care if it makes you townread me, it seems obvious that you haven't genuinely tried to communicate with me regardless of your alignment

I don't read people based on my own communications... I read people based on their own performance, or rather my interpretation of their performance. Me not interacting with you in the general sense is more a result of my scum read. My read on a player could change without me ever having to interact with said player. My read on you hasn't changed. I don't interact with my scum reads, it's just how I play. I let them figure it out, or not.

it's hard for me to wrap my head around the concept of not communicating with your scumreads in a game that is explicitly about communication - that seems like a surefire way to confirmation bias yourself into the wrong pushes, but you do you I guess

if I don't go over today, who would you want to kill next?

[NotAnAxehole]

Also, wtf SPF voting me without knowing how to read me or interacting with me directly (outside of this interaction which I initiated), and complaining about being scum read by someone who "doesn't know how to read her, and who isn't interacting with her directly". This is a comedy skit.

[NotAnAxehole]

I usually agree that stretching out a day for as long as possible is beneficial, but this is a case where the game being dragged out is just causing unnecessary stress and overthinking. the atmosphere of this game kind of sucks and i think we need to collectively get it together and unite behind a couple of names, especially since I think the POE is mostly correct

There are no hammers, the game duration is the game duration, it's not going to change regardless of what anyone does. People raging because they're being misread is just fake nonsense that you should ignore.

Also, this doesn't make me town read you.

I'm not suggesting an early hammer, but i am saying that us NOT having an early hammer is probably impacting the game negatively overall

and i don't really care if it makes you townread me, it seems obvious that you haven't genuinely tried to communicate with me regardless of your alignment

I don't read people based on my own communications... I read people based on their own performance, or rather my interpretation of their performance. Me not interacting with you in the general sense is more a result of my scum read. My read on a player could change without me ever having to interact with said player. My read on you hasn't changed. I don't interact with my scum reads, it's just how I play. I let them figure it out, or not.

it's hard for me to wrap my head around the concept of not communicating with your scumreads in a game that is explicitly about communication - that seems like a surefire way to confirmation bias yourself into the wrong pushes, but you do you I guess

if I don't go over today, who would you want to kill next?

I mean, the tactic which you use to meet an end doesn't define whether or not you start developing a bias.

[staypositivefriend]

i tried to directly engage with you on d1 and you outright stated that you didn't want to talk to me, so does that mean I'm just not supposed to try to read you at all? you haven't given me much to work with if you are town, and I'm trying to communicate with you again rn in case we are T/T, so it's up to you if you wanna take the olive branch